View Full Version : Ammunition Prices
How long do you think these prices will last. The Outdoorsman sent ma a email and they had 6 or 7 types of 9mm and all were .90 to $1.00/ round.
So they have inventory and its not flying off the shelves. I'm wondering how long this insanity will last and if prices will ever be .21 / round. You know, 1,000 rounds shipped for sub $200
PB
Probably a year at least. Just thinking when prices start coming down at all we'll all go out to start buying again driving prices back up.
The real question is how much 9mm would you buy if it was $200/1000. I'd be 5 cases in before wife saw the credit card bill. My guess is that's what everyone is thinking....restock to over full to avoid nonsense in the future.
Just picked up a GHM9C so put me down for 10K @$200.
One LGS says about the time they catch their breath, we get a new stimulus check and they are back to a line outside waiting to get in.
So the timer on ammo prices gets reset each time.
I think the fact ammo is available, just overpriced should tell us all something.
Andy
CrowCommand
02-22-21, 19:40
I die a little inside every time we have one of these shortages. Prices never seem to drop back to what they were....I fear the days of 9mm for $.30CPR, $25/k primers, sub $.50/rnd 5.56....are gone forever.
It’s not going to get much more expensive but it’s not going to get any better until 2022 at the earliest.
Prices will only go up. Wait until the Biden gun control EO's start flying out and then the congress ends up passing some gun control with traitor rino support. Does anyone really think that the courts will do anything but sign off on whatever Biden does or Congress/Biden does? Lol. After this past stolen election and the SCOTUS refusal to take any 2nd amendment cases, come on man.
Eurodriver
02-22-21, 20:16
I die a little inside every time we have one of these shortages. Prices never seem to drop back to what they were....I fear the days of 9mm for $.30CPR, $25/k primers, sub $.50/rnd 5.56....are gone forever.
We all thought that in 2008 and 2013 but they came back.
Everyone says they will stock up when prices come back down, but I can count with one hand how many times I’ve seen a guy say “yeah I shoot all the time. I stocked up when the prices were cheap” lol
Eurodriver
02-22-21, 20:18
Prices will only go up. Wait until the Biden gun control EO's start flying out and then the congress ends up passing some gun control with traitor rino support. Does anyone really think that the courts will do anything but sign off on whatever Biden does or Congress/Biden does? Lol. After this past stolen election and the SCOTUS refusal to take any 2nd amendment cases, come on man.
What have you done to correct the situation now that the election was stolen and you’ve been disenfranchised?
Evel Baldgui
02-22-21, 20:18
Prices rarely, if ever, rescind to 'previous levels'. If one is fortunate to buy 1000rds 9mm for $600, that is now considered reasonable or even a 'deal'. You will never see the $249-$299/ 1000rd ever again.
Eurodriver
02-22-21, 20:26
Prices rarely, if ever, rescind to 'previous levels'. If one is fortunate to buy 1000rds 9mm for $600, that is now considered reasonable or even a 'deal'. You will never see the $249-$299/ 1000rd ever again.
Wanna bet?
Do you know how much 5.56 cost in 2013?
Do you know how much it cost in 2019?
It actually cost less in 2019 than it did in 2011.
It might take another 2 years but it will drop off.
Wanna bet?
Do you know how much 5.56 cost in 2013?
Do you know how much it cost in 2019?
It actually cost less in 2019 than it did in 2011.
It might take another 2 years but it will drop off.
Barring some crazy legislation (and lets be honest - no shortage of crazy ATM) I am sure this is true.
Andy
The_War_Wagon
02-22-21, 21:37
How long do you think these prices will last.
Until a year or so AFTER SlowJoe / BlowHo leave office.
Eurodriver
02-22-21, 21:47
Until a year or so AFTER SlowJoe / BlowHo leave office.
Do you remember how low prices were during most of Obama’s Presidency?
Why would Biden’s admin be different?
Just another form of inflation.
Remember I said I would scour the world to try and find new produced ammo and then import it to the USA.
The best answer we got from any factory is that they are currently back ordered for 2 years.
So it is not coming down in price anytime soon.
I know of a government agency that is soon needing to try and order 2.5 million of 5.56, 2,5 M of 7.62 match and 5 mil. of 9mm, I think they are going to have a hard time
What have you done to correct the situation now that the election was stolen and you’ve been disenfranchised?
What have you done? What are you even asking related to this thread topic?
Probably a year at least. Just thinking when prices start coming down at all we'll all go out to start buying again driving prices back up.
The real question is how much 9mm would you buy if it was $200/1000. I'd be 5 cases in before wife saw the credit card bill. My guess is that's what everyone is thinking....restock to over full to avoid nonsense in the future.
Did that 20 years ago....so, not an issue now.
Wanna bet?
Do you know how much 5.56 cost in 2013?
Do you know how much it cost in 2019?
It actually cost less in 2019 than it did in 2011.
It might take another 2 years but it will drop off.
Which assumes many things that no one can know. There is talk of a ban on mail order sales of ammo- like there was from 1968-1986..... There is NO WAY IN HELL that ammo prices will go as low as they were in the past if that happens. You have less competition in the market place all the time too- consolidation of manufacturers and retailers- Walmart closing gun counters etc...Like them or not, they were a "market maker" in many areas for blasting and generic hunting ammo, Remington getting bought....There could be an import ban like 7N6 etc...Now what?
I'll just say I'm glad that I have what I do and I'm not terribly optimistic things will change for the better in the near term-1-5 years.
Here's my prediction. Ammo prices will start to go down within the year and will be within 20% of the previous market low within three years. Meanwhile, I'm shooting ammo that I literally purchased 15 years ago, not slowing down and not thinking twice about it. There's no way I'm going to allow these leftists to ruin my fun.
Which assumes many things that no one can know. There is talk of a ban on mail order sales of ammo- like there was from 1968-1986..... There is NO WAY IN HELL that ammo prices will go as low as they were in the past if that happens. You have less competition in the market place all the time too- consolidation of manufacturers and retailers- Walmart closing gun counters etc...Like them or not, they were a "market maker" in many areas for blasting and generic hunting ammo, Remington getting bought....There could be an import ban like 7N6 etc...Now what?
I'll just say I'm glad that I have what I do and I'm not terribly optimistic things will change for the better in the near term-1-5 years.Walmart? A market maker? Haven't seen a firearm I'm walmart since 1998 in a metro area of 6 million people
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Walmart? A market maker? Haven't seen a firearm I'm walmart since 1998 in a metro area of 6 million people
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I live in a town of 200k. We have four Walmarts. All, until recently, were well stocked with firearms and ammunition. If someone was coming to a CHL class, going hunting, plinking or even in some cases, to an Instructor Event- Walmart was often the choice for ammo locally. People would buy piles of the Remington Yellow and Winchester White Box 9mm....Nobody had better prices on generic bird shot for Shotgun classes or the opening day of dove season....If you needed " a box" of .30-30- that's not a mail order purchase and the average .30-30 shooter- isn't looking for anything Exotic, plain ole Remington 170 Core Lokts have killed more critters than any other factory load!
The standard advice of anyone coming to an Appleseed shoot for many years was to "drop by Walmart and buy 2 bulk packs of Federal Automatch or the 510 load"....etc....So, for serious and hardcore shooters, maybe Walmart was not the first choice, but for the vast majority of average folks and even those taking basic courses etc...Walmart was the ammo destination.
I live in a town of 200k. We have four Walmarts. All, until recently, were well stocked with firearms and ammunition. If someone was coming to a CHL class, going hunting, plinking or even in some cases, to an Instructor Event- Walmart was often the choice for ammo locally. People would buy piles of the Remington Yellow and Winchester White Box 9mm....Nobody had better prices on generic bird shot for Shotgun classes or the opening day of dove season....If you needed " a box" of .30-30- that's not a mail order purchase and the average .30-30 shooter- isn't looking for anything Exotic, plain ole Remington 170 Core Lokts have killed more critters than any other factory load!
The standard advice of anyone coming to an Appleseed shoot for many years was to "drop by Walmart and buy 2 bulk packs of Federal Automatch or the 510 load"....etc....So, for serious and hardcore shooters, maybe Walmart was not the first choice, but for the vast majority of average folks and even those taking basic courses etc...Walmart was the ammo destination.Literally any gun store.
Two Wally worlds by my house. Zero guns. One has some cheap gun accessories. Some ammo but why? No different than that 5 or so gun stores. The same Remington 3030 for about the same price at any actual gun store. I have to drive an hour and half to find a Walmart that sells firearms but even then it's pointless. When they did sell firearms, back in 98, it was nothing but 870s, 10/22 and lever action. [emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]. Meanwhile an actual gun store not only has ammo but also variety of firearms.....like handguns, not to mention semi auto center fire
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If Walmart stops selling ammo it has virtually no impact on the demand nor on the supply because they're not the consumer or manufacturer. Would anyone really shoot less because they can't buy ammo at Walmart?
It's simple, the demand is extremely high and production is flat and not expanding anymore. The factories say they are running at full capacity, but nobody is building new factories. There are something like 7 million more new shooters and climbing and everyone is in a hoarding mood. Maybe the upper limit has been reached though. Some outfit named the 2A Warehouse sent me an email that they have .223 and 9mm. the .223 was $830 + $69 in sales tax . That was Igman. They had Federal or Winchester .223 for $1150/K + tax. It hasn't sold out. The 9 was like $700/K. Maybe some desperate soul will go for it, not me, I'll just stop shooting and go do something else. I hope they choke on it. How long will it all continue this way, Don't know, but if I had to guess...maybe 2 years.
Literally any gun store.
Two Wally worlds by my house. Zero guns. One has some cheap gun accessories. Some ammo but why? No different than that 5 or so gun stores. The same Remington 3030 for about the same price at any actual gun store. I have to drive an hour and half to find a Walmart that sells firearms but even then it's pointless. When they did sell firearms, back in 98, it was nothing but 870s, 10/22 and lever action. [emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]. Meanwhile an actual gun store not only has ammo but also variety of firearms.....like handguns, not to mention semi auto center fire
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Your gun stores must be much different from those locally because local gun stores were charging nearly TWICE what Walmart was for standard White Box 9mm. Literally, twice as much, for the exact same ammo. Shoot half as much or pay twice as much, your choice.....And if mail order sales of ammo are banned, I can promise you, that will be THE NORM.
ETA: You actually LIVE in/Around Philadelphia? That explains a lot about your post....
If Walmart stops selling ammo it has virtually no impact on the demand nor on the supply because they're not the consumer or manufacturer. Would anyone really shoot less because they can't buy ammo at Walmart?
So the cost of ammo has no bearing on how much people shoot? Walmart treated ammo like every other commodity they sold. They bought TRAIN CAR LOADS OF IT and sold it cheap. You think "Jim Bobs Gun and Bait Shop" got the same prices on ammo or sold it as cheap as Walmart? They have the same costs of scale? Not hardly....
Your gun stores must be much different from those locally because local gun stores were charging nearly TWICE what Walmart was for standard White Box 9mm. Literally, twice as much, for the exact same ammo. Shoot half as much or pay twice as much, your choice.....And if mail order sales of ammo are banned, I can promise you, that will be THE NORM.
Wasn't necessary WWB but prices were comparable.
Back then I was buying online due to tax $$$$ otherwise I would have just bought locally. The same ammo SGammo and Target Sports USA was selling for $199 locally was $210 - $220ish. So if I needed ammo right now I'd stop by the gun store and also check out a bazillion other guns. Or I could do the same at walmart but instead of checking out other guns I'd have to see the missing links
I guess we don't have Jim Bob's Gun and Bait. Gun stores here have rather large selections and turnovers (putting aside current events)
Prices are not going down a for a couple of years. Time to dust off the reloader.
If Biden gets the media talking about a AWB for more than 24 hours we are headed for another 2013 drought. As a reminder 2013 was ammo then lowers, then bolts & BCGs, then lower parts kits. All gone for at least a year.
I learned my lesson years ago. When ammo was plentiful, I was making sure I'd buy a little at least every month. Nothing crazy, just making sure I always bought some, and just like saving money, I make sure I'm bringing more in than I'm putting out.
After years of doing this, it's added up, and I'm not having to panic buy during times like these. I'm still doing the same thing today. I refuse to pay the ridiculous prices. If you're patient, and wait for it to be stocked, there are still places online that charge resonable prices. Not this dollar a round s***.
When primers and powder come back, I can imagine growth in the small/'boutique' ammo manufacturing sector. There were and are a bunch of brands out there that most haven't heard of but who produced decent-good ammo at more approachable prices than alot of the big names.
Our ammo crisis appears to be an almost exclusively domestic phenomenon too, as other countries seem to be producing ammo just fine and with obviously fewer shooters in their own countries. Wolf, Tula, Prvi Partisan and Igman might just make this a little easier.
I think the fact ammo is available, just overpriced should tell us all something.
Right. This means we're at the apogee of the crisis...
The blind panic is over, and people are no longer buying at any price.
As calmer heads prevail and buyers hold off buying overpriced ammo, inventories will rise, and prices will fall...
Supply and demand: It's the law.
I die a little inside every time we have one of these shortages. Prices never seem to drop back to what they were...
But they always have dropped back to where they were...
Everyone says they will stock up when prices come back down, but I can count with one hand how many times I’ve seen a guy say “yeah I shoot all the time. I stocked up when the prices were cheap” lol
Count me as one of those guys.
Between when California passed the laws banning online ammo sales (2016) and when they took effect (2017), ammo was dirt cheap and I bought cases and cases of brass-cased 5.56 @ <30¢, 7.62NATO @ <50¢, and 12ga shotgun shells @ <25¢, and .22lr @ 5¢.
Now I'm sitting on 48,000 rounds of ammo in various calibers, and after the 2008 panic I bought dies and components to load another 15,000... My supply of bullets isn't so good, but it seems like those will be the last thing to be banned/restricted.
Prices rarely, if ever, rescind to 'previous levels'. If one is fortunate to buy 1000rds 9mm for $600, that is now considered reasonable or even a 'deal'. You will never see the $249-$299/ 1000rd ever again.
Wait and see...
It's simple, the demand is extremely high and production is flat and not expanding anymore. The factories say they are running at full capacity, but nobody is building new factories.
That's a sign: The people who know the industry best (and who saw demand skyrocket in 2009 and 2013 and crash afterwards) know that this bubble is going to pop and it's not worth investing in new factories to meet demand that's going to evaporate in 6-12 months.
There are something like 7 million more new shooters and climbing and everyone is in a hoarding mood.
I know three of those shooters...
Each just bought a gun (invariably a 9mm).
Each bought a couple hundred rounds of ammo, paying waaay too much (50¢/round or more).
Each took the gun out and shot it no more than twice. (My sampling of three: one still hasn't shot his at all, one shot his once, and one shot his twice.)
None of them is going to buy any more ammo anytime soon.
So the cost of ammo has no bearing on how much people shoot? Walmart treated ammo like every other commodity they sold. They bought TRAIN CAR LOADS OF IT and sold it cheap.
Yes, and I bought ammo from WalMart, and still do sometimes, but their prices often couldn't compete with those on the errornet... No great loss.
Right. This means we're at the apogee of the crisis...
The blind panic is over, and people are no longer buying at any price.
As calmer heads prevail and buyers hold off buying overpriced ammo, inventories will rise, and prices will fall...
Supply and demand: It's the law.
But they always have dropped back to where they were...
Count me as one of those guys.
Between when California passed the laws banning online ammo sales (2016) and when they took effect (2017), ammo was dirt cheap and I bought cases and cases of brass-cased 5.56 @ <30¢, 7.62NATO @ <50¢, and 12ga shotgun shells @ <25¢, and .22lr @ 5¢.
Now I'm sitting on 48,000 rounds of ammo in various calibers, and after the 2008 panic I bought dies and components to load another 15,000... My supply of bullets isn't so good, but it seems like those will be the last thing to be banned/restricted.
Wait and see...
That's a sign: The people who know the industry best (and who saw demand skyrocket in 2009 and 2013 and crash afterwards) know that this bubble is going to pop and it's not worth investing in new factories to meet demand that's going to evaporate in 6-12 months.
I know three of those shooters...
Each just bought a gun (invariably a 9mm).
Each bought a couple hundred rounds of ammo, paying waaay too much (50¢/round or more).
Each took the gun out and shot it no more than twice. (My sampling of three: one still hasn't shot his at all, one shot his once, and one shot his twice.)
None of them is going to buy any more ammo anytime soon.
Yes, and I bought ammo from WalMart, and still do sometimes, but their prices often couldn't compete with those on the errornet... No great loss.
Several things. You are a highly a typical shooter- your personal ammo buying choices are largely meaningless in the grand scheme of things--1. The vast majority of shooters have never mail ordered a case of ammo in their lives.
Karl Rehn--KR Training, is the only person I know who has actually crunched the numbers-and he's qualified to do so, his estimate is that only about 5 000 shooters, the hard-core, support most of what we call the "training industry", idpa, ipsc etc....That small number of "orders ammo by the case" type shooters is dwarfed by the "one box of 9s and one box .30-30 crowd". Those folks, buy ammo at Walmart.
2. Prior to El Paso, Walmart had 20% of the entire ammo market. One of every 5 rounds sold.... I love SG Ammo etc.. but they would be the first to admit they are pissant compared to Walmart ammo sales.
3. Ask our California brethern what happened to ammo prices when online sales were banned. Joe's bait and guns went no lube.
So, I do believe that long term, fewer sales outlets and fewer (consolidated) producers, means higher prices. To think otherwise means ammo is somehow immune to market forces-and recent history would strongly suggest otherwise.
So the cost of ammo has no bearing on how much people shoot? Walmart treated ammo like every other commodity they sold. They bought TRAIN CAR LOADS OF IT and sold it cheap. You think "Jim Bobs Gun and Bait Shop" got the same prices on ammo or sold it as cheap as Walmart? They have the same costs of scale? Not hardly....
Your assumption that Walmart beats the local competition hasn't been true for over ten years where I live in Atlanta. It sure isn't true when it comes to buying online. So yes, the amount ammunition costs has an impact on how much people shoot. But no, Walmart doesn't sell below market. Therefore, their lack of selling does not impact the demand.
Online sales weren't totally banned in Calif. You just had to have it shipped to a dealer willing to accept the shipment. They would then do a back ground check, add their handling fees. Some dealers were way better than others on the fees. The last K of .223 I got online from Target Sport wound up being about $325 shipped and processed. That was a while ago...some months. Prices did go up a bit, but nothing radical. Prices went up when Walmart got completely out of the ammo biz when the the back ground check law hit. LGS's didn't have to compete as much. The rona and election panics really drove things into the stratosphere, but then that hit all of us.
1. The vast majority of shooters have never mail ordered a case of ammo in their lives.
2. Prior to El Paso, Walmart had 20% of the entire ammo market. One of every 5 rounds sold.... I love SG Ammo etc.. but they would be the first to admit they are pissant compared to Walmart ammo sales.
3. Ask our California brethern what happened to ammo prices when online sales were banned.
Right, so the schmucks who used to go buy 2 boxes of ammo at Walmart are going to pay more, forever.
For the typical M4c.net regular, that's not typical.
Also, as you pointed out, like cigarettes or lottery tickets or alcohol, it's us few heavy users who are most of the regular demand.
Online sales weren't totally banned in Calif...
Yeah, but it's enough of an expensive PITA that I've avoided doing it, and will continue to do so. (I travel out of state regularly and simply bring factory ammo back, as needed, but I don't need much.)
If I were going to do it, then I'd get my own ammo vendor license...
Right, so the schmucks who used to go buy 2 boxes of ammo at Walmart are going to pay more, forever.
For the typical M4c.net regular, that's not typical.
Also, as you pointed out, like cigarettes or lottery tickets or alcohol, it's us few heavy users who are most of the regular demand.
Yeah, but it's enough of an expensive PITA that I've avoided doing it, and will continue to do so. (I travel out of state regularly and simply bring factory ammo back, as needed, but I don't need much.)
If I were going to do it, then I'd get my own ammo vendor license...
Yeah, it was a hassle. It was still way cheaper than Turner's etc. Up until recently I was doing 2 3guns a month with some practice and casual shooting in between. Online .223 and reloading pistol ammo was where it was at for me. Loading .223 was just too labor intensive with my 60 hr. work week at the time. Now that I have the time...boom...no components. Such is life.
Several things. You are a highly a typical shooter- your personal ammo buying choices are largely meaningless in the grand scheme of things--1. The vast majority of shooters have never mail ordered a case of ammo in their lives.
Karl Rehn--KR Training, is the only person I know who has actually crunched the numbers-and he's qualified to do so, his estimate is that only about 5 000 shooters, the hard-core, support most of what we call the "training industry", idpa, ipsc etc....That small number of "orders ammo by the case" type shooters is dwarfed by the "one box of 9s and one box .30-30 crowd". Those folks, buy ammo at Walmart.
2. Prior to El Paso, Walmart had 20% of the entire ammo market. One of every 5 rounds sold.... I love SG Ammo etc.. but they would be the first to admit they are pissant compared to Walmart ammo sales.
3. Ask our California brethern what happened to ammo prices when online sales were banned. Joe's bait and guns went no lube.
So, I do believe that long term, fewer sales outlets and fewer (consolidated) producers, means higher prices. To think otherwise means ammo is somehow immune to market forces-and recent history would strongly suggest otherwise.
Cast majority of those who never mail ordered ammo are the same who buy one box of 9 and 3030. They're also the same people who buy maybe a few boxes a year
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I am glad a good number of you are so optimistic. I think that this time and era is like nothing the USSA has seen before. I guess we shall see. You can for sure count on a complete ban on all firearm and ammo imports as China Joe can do it by fiat.
Eurodriver
02-23-21, 18:40
What have you done? What are you even asking related to this thread topic?
I haven’t done anything, because I don’t believe I was disenfranchised.
You brought up a “stolen election”. What does that have to do with ammo availability? Nothing. What are you doing about the stolen election? Nothing.
Eurodriver
02-23-21, 18:43
Here's my prediction. Ammo prices will start to go down within the year and will be within 20% of the previous market low within three years. Meanwhile, I'm shooting ammo that I literally purchased 15 years ago, not slowing down and not thinking twice about it. There's no way I'm going to allow these leftists to ruin my fun.
Ditto.
Eurodriver
02-23-21, 18:54
Which assumes many things that no one can know. There is talk of a ban on mail order sales of ammo- like there was from 1968-1986..... There is NO WAY IN HELL that ammo prices will go as low as they were in the past if that happens. You have less competition in the market place all the time too- consolidation of manufacturers and retailers- Walmart closing gun counters etc...Like them or not, they were a "market maker" in many areas for blasting and generic hunting ammo, Remington getting bought....There could be an import ban like 7N6 etc...Now what?
I'll just say I'm glad that I have what I do and I'm not terribly optimistic things will change for the better in the near term-1-5 years.
All valid points that I hadn’t considered.
I’m not optimistic, but I’m not pessimistic.
Considering how much gun owners pride themselves on being ready for “SHTF”, they are cheap and have the memory of a mosquito. Anyone over the age of 30 has experienced at least 2 serious runs on guns & ammo as well as a federal AWB in their lifetime.
Yet, millions still got stuck with their pants around their ankles with no ammo last year. How tf does that happen?
The reason I’m not entirely optimistic is because we do have millions of new gun owners. These guys, even if they buy two boxes each, will mean millions of *boxes* of ammo needing to bring supply up with demand. The system just isn’t setup for that. It’d be like if 50 million new cars hit the road this month. There’d be fuel shortages everywhere.
Once that settles in though, I’m not pessimistic because - well, see above. Gun owners are dumb and cheap. Eventually normalcy will resume, gun owners won’t want to spend $10,000 stocking up on dirt cheap ammo and primers (even though they should), and M4C will go back to “Who has the cheapest Colt barrel?” instead of “Who has an AR barrel for sale?”
Midway has 600 rounds of 855 for $509 right now in stock.
https://www.midwayusa.com/ltd/product?pid=569000&utm_medium=email&utm_source=service&utm_campaign=product-arrival-notification&utm_content=product-description-link
Yeah, it was a hassle. It was still way cheaper than Turner's etc...
I live in the middle of nowhere (look up Humboldt County), so I've been ordering ammo online for a long, long time...
We now have a Sportman's Whorehouse here, and that's progress, but I don't expect them to match online prices.
Happily, I have so much ammo stockpiled that at most I might want some speciality ammo or rimfire, and I'll have that delivered to friends/family out of state and bring it back in my checked bags.
In a real pinch, I'll pay for double shipping and have friends/family just forward it to me.
I am glad a good number of you are so optimistic.
I'm pessimistic about California: The stupid rules here are just going to get worse, and the only ray of hope is that most of them are unenforceable and/or the courts will throw them out.
I think federal gun control is a non-starter unless the anti-2A crowd gets a solid lock on the House and Senate. Old Joe isn't going to do it on his own, and there are enough Democrats from swing states (WV, AZ) that it won't pass Congress, either...
Thumbs pressed...
Midway has 600 rounds of 855 for $509 right now in stock.
Good for them...
If it sells, then they and Winchester are making a bundle (and the fool who buys it was would've soon been parted from his money, anyway).
If it doesn't sell, then the panic is ending, and the price will come down...
Good for them...
If it sells, then they and Winchester are making a bundle (and the fool who buys it was would've soon been parted from his money, anyway).
If it doesn't sell, then the panic is ending, and the price will come down...
It will sell out in now time.
Good for them...
If it sells, then they and Winchester are making a bundle (and the fool who buys it was would've soon been parted from his money, anyway).
If it doesn't sell, then the panic is ending, and the price will come down...
It will sell out in no time.
I bet it's still there tomorrow morning...
All valid points that I hadn’t considered.
I’m not optimistic, but I’m not pessimistic.
Considering how much gun owners pride themselves on being ready for “SHTF”, they are cheap and have the memory of a mosquito.
SNIP...
Gun owners are dumb and cheap.
For you to make such general statements about gun owners like that ON A GUN FORUM tell me a lot about who the 'real' dummy is here.
Eurodriver
02-23-21, 19:55
For you to make such general statements about gun owners like that ON A GUN FORUM tell me a lot about who the 'real' dummy is here.
Oh nooooooo I’m the real dummy oh noooooo.
Considering how much gun owners pride themselves on being ready for “SHTF”, they are cheap and have the memory of a mosquito.
For you to make such general statements about gun owners like that ON A GUN FORUM...
Obviously EuroDriver meant "most gun owners" and not typical M4c.net regulars...
I think most of us are like Bret (see above), i.e., well-prepared to ride this out.
I confess I'm enjoying a bit of Schadenfreude seeing people freak out, as well as some trainwreck-watching fascination as prices go crazy.
If I could figure out an easy and legal way to do it, I would start selling cases of Wolf Gold 5.56 for whatever the market would bear...
Eurodriver
02-23-21, 20:05
Obviously EuroDriver meant "most gun owners" and not typical M4c.net regulars...
I think most of us are like Bret (see above), i.e., well-prepared to ride this out.
I confess I'm enjoying a bit of Schadenfreude seeing people freak out, as well as some trainwreck-watching fascination as prices go crazy.
If I could figure out an easy and legal way to do it, I would start selling cases of Wolf Gold 5.56 for whatever the market would bear...
Obvious is not obvious to people when a nerve is struck.
Ditto on the ammo sales. I’ve sold quite a bit. Probably 3,000 rounds of 9mm but what I found is the people who are willing to pay the stupid prices are only looking for a few boxes. You can sell a case of 9mm for $550 easily, but if you wanna meet 30 different people you can get $1000 for it parted out.
In August or so, I actually went to a gun shop and asked people in line waiting to get in if they wanted ammo but the employees ran me off lol.
Straight Shooter
02-23-21, 20:10
For you to make such general statements about gun owners like that ON A GUN FORUM tell me a lot about who the 'real' dummy is here.
Dude, Euro is 100% correct. We are, and always have been & forever will be, our own worst enemy.
SO MANY had the chance for over 3 years pre-covid, to stock up on prices at 20 year or more lows. THEY DIDNT.
They forget how it was during AWB of '94. During Sandy Hook. During all the times demonrats tried everything to erase the 2A. They thouht guns & ammo "would always be there". WRONG.
I couldnt get my guys to stock up for shit. Ive long ago told people to stop asking me where to get this or that. I tell them they had their chance.
Im not as optimistic as Euro- I think its a distinct possibility we will NEVER go back to "who has the cheapest Colt barrel". Youll just be lucky to find a barrel, then youll have to go thru an FFL & background check & pay some high ass tax to get THAT.
When the import bans come, and the taxes come, and mail order & online sources are banned, and SCOTUS does what SCOTUS almost always does, and wont take up any 2A related cases, shooting will be all but done here in America.
Gun owners...not real, true SHOOTERS...ARE dumb & cheap. And they are the ones hurting right now, NOT the shooters.
Ditto on the ammo sales. I’ve sold quite a bit. Probably 3,000 rounds of 9mm but what I found is the people who are willing to pay the stupid prices are only looking for a few boxes. You can sell a case of 9mm for $550 easily, but if you wanna meet 30 different people you can get $1000 for it parted out.
That makes sense...
FWIW, I guess that's why that case of 600rnds of M855 is still there on Midway... The booger-eaters who might pay 85¢/round don't have any idea what they would ever do with 600rnds, and/or they don't want to plunk down $500+ at once.
For you to make such general statements about gun owners like that ON A GUN FORUM tell me a lot about who the 'real' dummy is here.
If you're looking for friends that will help, or put forth a kind word, gun forums aren't the place you'll find any. Everyone is a mercenary. It's the reason conservatives and libertarians keep losing over the long haul to leftists...they eat their own.
If you're looking for friends that will help, or put forth a kind word, gun forums aren't the place you'll find any...
Actually, my experience has always been the opposite.
Just about every time I've asked for help, somebody here has stepped up and helped me out with good advice or whatever.
And sometimes the kindest word is the "tough love" version... I appreciate that.
Actually, my experience has always been the opposite.
Just about every time I've asked for help, somebody here has stepped up and helped me out with good advice or whatever.
And sometimes the kindest word is the "tough love" version... I appreciate that.
Really? Tough love? I don't think love has much to do with anything on this forum. Your experience is different than mine, but then I don't have many good expectations of other men.
Really? Tough love? I don't think love has much to do with anything on this forum. Your experience is different than mine, but then I don't have many good expectations of other men.
Funny, you and I both joined M4C.net in May 2008...
You have almost double as many posts as I do... Almost one per day, on average, for almost 13 years.
Something must keep bringing you back!
In my case, yes, straight facts, tough love, no-BS, call it whatever you want.
If I wanted somebody to tell me how cool or smart I am, then I could call my mother...
Funny, you and I both joined M4C.net in May 2008...
You have almost double as many posts as I do... Almost one per day, on average, for almost 13 years.
Something must keep bringing you back!
In my case, yes, straight facts, tough love, no-BS, call it whatever you want.
If I wanted somebody to tell me how cool or smart I am, then I could call my mother...
Friendship and flattery isn't the reason. Just like I converse with people face to face with no expectation of friendship, so it is here. I have other motives for being here. By the way, there are no straight facts, there's always a bias and interpretation. Calling other shooters stupid isn't a fact, it's an opinion. Unless of course you happen to be working from an absolutely objective and truthful source.
By the way, there are no straight facts, there's always a bias and interpretation. Calling other shooters stupid isn't a fact, it's an opinion. Unless of course you happen to be working from an absolutely objective and truthful source.
Sure, I drink the post-modern Kool-Aide, too...
On the other hand, everybody's entitled to his opinion, and there are some things that most of us would agree are stupid, just like most of us would agree that Giselle Bündchen is more appealing than Rosie O'Donnell: Just an opinion!
Sure, I drink the post-modern Kool-Aide, too...
On the other hand, everybody's entitled to his opinion, and there are some things that most of us would agree are stupid, just like most of us would agree that Giselle Bündchen is more appealing than Rosie O'Donnell: Just an opinion!
Post-modern wouldn't be my schtick.
By the way, there are no straight facts, there's always a bias and interpretation.
Post-modern wouldn't be my schtick.
Looks like it IS your schtick... Of course, that's just my analysis, not an objective fact (which don't exist).
See, now we're having fun...
Looks like it IS your schtick... Of course, that's just my analysis, not an objective fact (which don't exist).
See, now we're having fun...
Oh, there are objective facts, you just have to have access unimpeachable source of objectivity. I think I do, I'm betting my life on it.
Dude, Euro is 100% correct. We are, and always have been & forever will be, our own worst enemy.
SO MANY had the chance for over 3 years pre-covid, to stock up on prices at 20 year or more lows. THEY DIDNT.
They forget how it was during AWB of '94. During Sandy Hook. During all the times demonrats tried everything to erase the 2A. They thouht guns & ammo "would always be there". WRONG.
I couldnt get my guys to stock up for shit. Ive long ago told people to stop asking me where to get this or that. I tell them they had their chance.
Im not as optimistic as Euro- I think its a distinct possibility we will NEVER go back to "who has the cheapest Colt barrel". Youll just be lucky to find a barrel, then youll have to go thru an FFL & background check & pay some high ass tax to get THAT.
When the import bans come, and the taxes come, and mail order & online sources are banned, and SCOTUS does what SCOTUS almost always does, and wont take up any 2A related cases, shooting will be all but done here in America.
Gun owners...not real, true SHOOTERS...ARE dumb & cheap. And they are the ones hurting right now, NOT the shooters.
All true based on what I have seen over the last 30 plus years.
I was in a LGS the other day foolishly looking for a used 92FS. The have empty Hornady Frontier barrels double-stacked to make a wall to control customer flow at the register. At least 24 empty at 13,889 rounds apiece is 1/3 of a million rounds that they have sold re-packaged in smaller quantities since the panic started.
They have never not had ammo, but restrict purchases pretty tightly.
Hornady barrel o bullets: https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/12/27/hornady-frontier-cartridge-barrel/
Andy
Friendship and flattery isn't the reason. Just like I converse with people face to face with no expectation of friendship, so it is here. I have other motives for being here. By the way, there are no straight facts, there's always a bias and interpretation. Calling other shooters stupid isn't a fact, it's an opinion. Unless of course you happen to be working from an absolutely objective and truthful source.
First I would make a distinction between shooters and gun owners. There's a difference as Straight Shooter alludes to above.
My opinion is that "gun owners" are nothing more than a subset of the general population. I don't have much faith in them quite honestly. That, is my opinion based on several observed facts and considerable experience. Serious shooters are generally another sort of individual and I'll leave them out of the discussion....
The "experience" first--- My parents met at an ammo factory. I have been around shooting and hunting my entire life- my mother was shooting pistol competitively while I was in the womb. I've hunted and shot competitively all my life- smallbore, trap and skeet, IDPA, IPSC, 3 Gun, High Power, Silhouette, PRS, Run and Gun....I've trained under some of the finest instructors this country- and others, have ever produced. I've put animals in the record book as a hunter. I've hunted with dogs, from helicopters, on skis, by horse.... I've been on the gunshow circuit, worked in gunshops, worked with gunsmiths, ran a 400 member private shooting range for 25 years....I've been a Regional Friends of NRA Director and helped raise well over $1 million for the NRA. Life member of just about every Pro 2A organization you can name. I've helped write pro 2A Legislation and testified on both legislation and as an expert witness in firearms cases, I've defended police officers in use of force proceedings. I've lectured on various firearms related issues many times. I'm a board certified trial attorney by trade and "judging" people, is my business.
Most "gun owners" are certifiably ignorant (not really open to debate) and borderline stupid when it comes to firearms. They don't know much about their firearms- their history or specific design features, how to operate them, safe gun handling principles, ballistics, proficient use.... They don't belong to any organizations that supports their right to own guns or that promote firearms ownership and competency- they often don't think it's important because they are completely ignorant and cannot articulate the history of human oppression and how firearms (the right of self defense) are integral to the republican form of government. They don't seek out advanced training to better their skills nor do they regularly practice to attain a high level of proficiency. Owning guns is a small part of their lives and often very compartmentalized.
That doesn't make them evil people, ignorant and borderline stupid in many cases, yes.
Eurodriver
02-24-21, 08:40
First I would make a distinction between shooters and gun owners. There's a difference as Straight Shooter alludes to above.
My opinion is that "gun owners" are nothing more than a subset of the general population. I don't have much faith in them quite honestly. That, is my opinion based on several observed facts and considerable experience. Serious shooters are generally another sort of individual and I'll leave them out of the discussion....
The "experience" first--- My parents met at an ammo factory. I have been around shooting and hunting my entire life- my mother was shooting pistol competitively while I was in the womb. I've hunted and shot competitively all my life- smallbore, trap and skeet, IDPA, IPSC, 3 Gun, High Power, Silhouette, PRS, Run and Gun....I've trained under some of the finest instructors this country- and others, have ever produced. I've put animals in the record book as a hunter. I've hunted with dogs, from helicopters, on skis, by horse.... I've been on the gunshow circuit, worked in gunshops, worked with gunsmiths, ran a 400 member private shooting range for 25 years....I've been a Regional Friends of NRA Director and helped raise well over $1 million for the NRA. Life member of just about every Pro 2A organization you can name. I've helped write pro 2A Legislation and testified on both legislation and as an expert witness in firearms cases, I've defended police officers in use of force proceedings. I've lectured on various firearms related issues many times. I'm a board certified trial attorney by trade and "judging" people, is my business.
Most "gun owners" are certifiably ignorant (not really open to debate) and borderline stupid when it comes to firearms. They don't know much about their firearms- their history or specific design features, how to operate them, safe gun handling principles, ballistics, proficient use.... They don't belong to any organizations that supports their right to own guns or that promote firearms ownership and competency- they often don't think it's important because they are completely ignorant and cannot articulate the history of human oppression and how firearms (the right of self defense) are integral to the republican form of government. They don't seek out advanced training to better their skills nor do they regularly practice to attain a high level of proficiency. Owning guns is a small part of their lives and often very compartmentalized.
That doesn't make them evil people, ignorant and borderline stupid in many cases, yes.
Bingo.
I don’t know why what I said is so controversial. If it wasn’t, the “Dumbest things you’ve ever heard in a gun store” thread wouldn’t exist. Likewise, there isn’t a “Dumbest thing you’ve seen at a LAV class” thread. It wouldn’t be very entertaining.
I didn’t say everyone at a LAV class, or this forum, or even in the NRA was a moron, nor would I. That’s the top 25% of educated of “gun owners”. Hell, even people who simply go to the range regularly are not typical “gun owners”.
Typical gun owners are “I have a gun for protection, but I don’t think assault rifles should be legal”. Or guys like the below:
https://images-complex-com.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/c_fill,dpr_auto,f_auto,fl_lossy,g_face,q_auto,w_1280/k4tq5oivnkofvzypfxw8.jpg
Those folks outnumber M4C by millions. And - fun fact - there were at least two NDs with one injury by the NFAC in 2H20 alone.
But they’re not stupid, right? The guys rushing to pay $800 for a case of 9mm are pretty smart too. I guess I was wrong.
I always remember these demand spikes starting with a thread on here something like
"Have you started preparing for X yet?"
"What guns do you think will be in short supply when X happens?"
"Have you stocked up for X yet"
"Do you see a shortage coming"
"so and so is coming for your X, have you prepared?"
I would bet when these threads are seen, most on here check the ammo bots for prices and buy some->tonnage of ammo, parts or firearms. It a precursor to members here and the gun community fearing something happening that would affect supply and react accordingly.
The problem is we buy irrationally buying we are draining supply jacking up prices and further buying to keep the cycle moving. The cause and effect is us, not any boogyman, manufacturer, supplier, gun store, or politician. Every time blame is placed on someone or something else (boogyman, manufacturer, supplier, gun store, or politician), but non of these people are buying up all the guns, ammo and gun parts...it's still us. In the end somehow we all forget or stop buying and demand slows to bring prices back to normal.
I bought a metric boatload years and years ago of everything I thought would run out of and have an entire room of more mags, parts, ammo and other stuff I would ever need and still panic buy like the best of them. At one point I had hundreds and hundreds of mags NIW for my 4 glocks and 3 AR's, but have never opened a new one in almost 10 years. I guess I'll never learn either.
Evel Baldgui
02-24-21, 15:19
Wanna bet?
Do you know how much 5.56 cost in 2013?
Do you know how much it cost in 2019?
It actually cost less in 2019 than it did in 2011.
It might take another 2 years but it will drop off.
I hope you're absolutely correct on this, but I have severe doubts.
Eurodriver
02-25-21, 06:51
I hope you're absolutely correct on this, but I have severe doubts.
I heard the same doubts from folks in 2013.
“Obama gonna ban ammo sales! We’ll never see 30cpr 223 ever again”
And then, we did. And it lasted for years (save for a brief spell around the 2016 election) and it was glorious.
Unfortunately, as I said, most gun owners are idiots and didn’t capitalize on this when it was SO CLEARLY going to happen again.
Unfortunately, as I said, most gun owners are idiots and didn’t capitalize on this when it was SO CLEARLY going to happen again.
Shhhhhhhhhhh. I still have some ammo left to sell.
Would it be too much for everyone to stop buying ammo for 1 month (or better, 2 months) to allow the ammo manufacturers time to get the shelves fully stocked? This would also help in getting prices down to a reasonable level.
Without doing this we can expect these shortages to continue for 1, maybe 2 years.
Would it be too much for everyone to stop buying ammo for 1 month (or better, 2 months) to allow the ammo manufacturers time to get the shelves fully stocked? This would also help in getting prices down to a reasonable level.
Without doing this we can expect these shortages to continue for 1, maybe 2 years.
Its probably already happening for the most part here. I doubt many here are buying .223 or 9 for $700-$850/K here. I haven't bought any loaded ammo in over a year. I did make a minor buy of some .223 and 7mm bullets months ago, but nothing since then. Whatever ammo is being bought at half way reasonable prices these days is probably being re-sold at much higher prices. At least some of it.
I just hope Trump takes office March 4rd and all this shit is acedemic.
I just said it.
PB
iflyskyhigh
02-25-21, 20:48
I heard the same doubts from folks in 2013.
“Obama gonna ban ammo sales! We’ll never see 30cpr 223 ever again”
And then, we did. And it lasted for years (save for a brief spell around the 2016 election) and it was glorious.
Unfortunately, as I said, most gun owners are idiots and didn’t capitalize on this when it was SO CLEARLY going to happen again.
I've been formulating a theory about this. Not entirely my own. Made up of my own thoughts combined with the insight of others.
Goes like this.
Things are going to be different this time. We will never again see prices as low as on firearms, ammunition, and accessories as they were from 2016 to the beginning of 2020. The four years of Trump were the culmination of a perfect storm.
During the Obama administration the firearms industry and everything surrounding it absolutely exploded. Every tom dick and harry got into the business, and everyone who was already in business was ever increasing their production to try and just keep up with the demand. They added capacity and grew their business at break neck speed. Adding men, equipment, raw materials...buying bigger and bigger facilities. Never once slowing down. This continued for pretty much the entire 8 years of the Obama administration.
Then 2016 happened. Everyone (including the firearms industry) thought Hillary was going to win so they kept the production machine in over drive. At this point they had produced more product then they could possibly hope to sell during normal times. And then it happened. Trump won and the floor pretty much dropped out the entire industry. The general public just stopped buying. Diehards, enthusiasts, tactical Timmy's, competitors, et all kept going, but the public at large just quite buying firearms and accessories. I don't mean to imply the firearms industry wasn't doing great, maybe even growing, but not at the pace of production. I personally think firearms and accessories have been steadily increasing in popularity for the past 20+ years. Again, just not at the pace that the manufactures were producing product for this given time period.
2016-late 2019. Inventory started piling up. Shit was on sale. Everyday. Everywhere. Dirt cheap. Brownells was offering 10% off the entire order pretty much day...with free shipping. Most other large retailers followed suit. It got to the point where I was saving 0.0 dollars reloading 9MM and 223. In fact when you figured in my labor it was probably cheaper to buy it. The sales and low prices for sure moved product, but the inventory was still massive. ALMOST nothing was out of stock. Ever. Almost.
This continued for the entire four years of Trump. But then something started to change in late 2019-early 2020, even before the plan-demic. The sales started to be not as great. No more 10% off. No more free shipping. Black Friday and Christmas sales were disappointing in 2019. My guess is they finally started to get through the backlog they'd been sitting on for the past couple of years. The manufactures were obviously still producing and firearms were arguably still as popular as they had ever been, but something was for sure changing.
I think most people in the gun community (manufactures included) thought Trump was going to win again, so it was just status quo as 2020 started. But then the plan-demic hit and it all came to an end. Almost overnight.
There were two distinct cycles in 2020 where things spiked. They spiked in March when people were scared as hell and had no idea what was going to happen. Shelves were bare. But that passed. I distinctly remember the shelves being empty in early 2020, but then they started to get restocked and everything (in the gun business at least) stabilized. THEN the riots started and things spiked again. But this time they never stopped. It's been pretty much OOS on everything firearms and firearms related since late last summer. And it seems as though it's just getting worse. At a fevered pace. Millions and millions of new gun owners. Everyone buying everything in sight. Guns store shelves empty. People waiting in lines out the door waiting their turn to try and buy something. Anything.
The firearms industry had been lulled to sleep with four years of trump and the prospect of another four years of trump. No one was, or could have possibly been prepared for what happened. Even before the plan-demic prices were naturally starting rise, but instead of being absorbed as old product was purchased and replaced with the new more expensive product, everything went of stock literarily overnight. And it was replaced, all at once, with the new more expensive product. Same product, but everything was just now more expensive. This created the appearance of prices being jacked up. Which they probably were to some extent. But some of that was due to inventory turn over at such a rapid pace. Economics is like gravity. You can cheat it for short periods of time, but gravity always wins...as does economics. Supply and demand is about the only part of our economy that is actually "free market".
Prices were going to go up regardless of the plan-demic. Everything is becoming exponentially more expensive. Labor is more expensive, raw materials are more expensive. Real estate is more expensive. Shipping costs have gone through the roof. Prices were going to go up.
Lots of small business have been and will be forced out of business by the draconian measures of their states tyrants, decreasing supply. The big business are running at reduced capacity in order to comply with the their tyrants mandates, decreasing supply. But probably one of the biggest hinderances, especially to ammo and reloading supplies is the influx of millions and millions of new customers. Combine that with the afore mentioned enthusiasts who never left buying everything in sight, it has just utterly and completely overwhelmed the system.
It's going to be a long, long, long....long time before things return to any state of "normal". Things will stabilize. Prices will come down. But I don't think we will ever see prices and availability like we did from 2016 to 2020. Like I said. It was the perfect storm.
For what it's worth, I've been watching the price of the Smith Sport II AR on Grabagun. I admit that it's too small a sample to be significant, but they were at $949 a while, and apparently selling. they bumped it up to $999, but only briefly, because the brought it back down. Now it's $899 which it hasn't been in a while. So we may be passing a peak of some sort. Maybe.
The_War_Wagon
02-27-21, 09:19
Was reading my new "Shooting Illustrated," where Jason Hornady stated, they have a 2 1/2 year backlog of ammo orders. So if NOBODY ordered so much as a single round from them going forward, it would still be late summer of 2023, before they're caught up on what has BEEN ordered. :(
For a LOT of us, what we've GOT, is what there IS.
The backlog is at the distributor and retail level, not at the consumer level. Just because they have placed orders, that does not mean that the ammunition on order will sell at the current market prices. To the contrary, we could end up with a glut of ammo if the orders are filled and consumer demand declines.
The backlog is at the distributor and retail level, not at the consumer level. Just because they have placed orders, that does not mean that the ammunition on order will sell at the current market prices.
Not to be a d*ck, but this is kind of a "duh" statement. You also have to factor in any Mil/LE orders that take priority and IF anything new comes in from those .gov groups due to a new war or whatever, they will jump the line.
The other problem is that some manufacturers have started going outside of normal distribution channels and are essentially selling to the highest bidder (new distributors or brokers), which is also happening from the distributor to retailer level. Some manufacturers have even started selling direct online. Lots of market shifting happening.
To the contrary, we could end up with a glut of ammo if the orders are filled and consumer demand declines.
Disagree with this...as mentioned above, ammo manufacturers (and several companies up and down the supply chain) got caught with their pants down (glut of ammo) after Trump got elected, and I don't think they're keen on doing that again. The risk for them is a legislative change that makes ammo hard to sell...in which case they would have a glut of ammo if they forecast it wrong.
Another market factor (in terms of pricing) is the cost of copper. It's rising and forecast to continue. As that goes up (and I'm sure other metals/components are as well), then that will inherently make ammo more expensive.
I definitely don't have all the answers, but I think prices will stay elevated for quite a while.
The_War_Wagon
02-27-21, 16:31
You also have to factor in any Mil/LE orders that take priority and IF anything new comes in from those .gov groups due to a new war or whatever, they will jump the line.
SlowJoe's TRYING to start one in Syria! Or his handlers are. :rolleyes:
For what it's worth, I've been watching the price of the Smith Sport II AR on Grabagun. I admit that it's too small a sample to be significant, but they were at $949 a while, and apparently selling. they bumped it up to $999, but only briefly, because the brought it back down. Now it's $899 which it hasn't been in a while. So we may be passing a peak of some sort. Maybe.
Uni, I no longer see gun prices being held up like during the covid/riot period. They have stabilized in these parts. It's the ammo that continues to suck arse.
PB
The not so simple economic fact missing in this discussion is inflation. The fed has printed more money past couple years than most can comprehend. A dollar in 2021 won’t buy anywhere close to what it would in 2018. Just look at the price of things like lumber and food and stocks. My 401k went up 49% last year when businesses were getting shut down and unemployment was double digits and travel was almost at a standstill. Why? Because of an economic boom? No. Because it takes more dollars to buy the same amount of stuff.
The panic is purely political. If biden doesn’t do anything stupid the panic will go away. However ammo won’t go back to what you think it should because of inflation. It will take an enormous glut of supply and lack of demand to drive prices down to those 2018 levels. Once the supply is back to normal, expect pricing to reflect inflation. My guess is a case of prvi m193 that was $300 will be at least $400 in the “normal” future.
The not so simple economic fact missing in this discussion is inflation. The fed has printed more money past couple years than most can comprehend. A dollar in 2021 won’t buy anywhere close to what it would in 2018. Just look at the price of things like lumber and food and stocks. My 401k went up 49% last year when businesses were getting shut down and unemployment was double digits and travel was almost at a standstill. Why? Because of an economic boom? No. Because it takes more dollars to buy the same amount of stuff.
The panic is purely political. If biden doesn’t do anything stupid the panic will go away. However ammo won’t go back to what you think it should because of inflation. It will take an enormous glut of supply and lack of demand to drive prices down to those 2018 levels. Once the supply is back to normal, expect pricing to reflect inflation. My guess is a case of prvi m193 that was $300 will be at least $400 in the “normal” future.
Yes, the printing of enormous amounts of green colored cloth is going to have lasting consequences for just about everything, including ammo. I am somewhat hopefully that reloading supplies will come back a little better but I won’t hold my breath.
The not so simple economic fact missing in this discussion is inflation...
My guess is a case of prvi m193 that was $300 will be at least $400 in the “normal” future.
Yes, the printing of enormous amounts of green colored cloth is going to have lasting consequences for just about everything, including ammo.
Yes, I'm worried about inflation, too (and not just ammo prices).
The Economist reports that the Fed printed (or issued electronically) 25% more money last year than ever existed before.
On the flip side, inflation is driven by the pace that money changes hands, not the amount of money out there. (If people sit on their money, then inflation doesn't happen.)
So, especially in the case of ammo prices, the answer is to NOT buy overpriced ammo...
Yes, I'm worried about inflation, too (and not just ammo prices).
So, especially in the case of ammo prices, the answer is to NOT buy overpriced ammo...
I agree. If shooters could restrain themselves for 4-6 months or so the ammo factories would be able to catch up and the gougers would go away (somewhat). But as long as there are shooters who must have 100,000 rounds in their basement we will continue to have shortages and high prices.
I agree. If shooters could restrain themselves for 4-6 months or so the ammo factories would be able to catch up and the gougers would go away (somewhat). But as long as there are shooters who must have 100,000 rounds in their basement we will continue to have shortages and high prices.
The problem isn't shooters with 100,000 rounds in the basement (I'm about halfway there). We're the ones who tide over the ammo companies and vendors during their lean times, when we "buy it cheap and stack it deep."
The problem is the guy who must go buy 1,000 rounds RIGHT NOW, no matter the price.
Fools and their money...
The problem isn't shooters with 100,000 rounds in the basement (I'm about halfway there). We're the ones who tide over the ammo companies and vendors during their lean times, when we "buy it cheap and stack it deep."
The problem is the guy who must go buy 1,000 rounds RIGHT NOW, no matter the price.
Fools and their money...
I guess I should have said, "But as long as there are shooters, who didn't have a good stash of ammo prior to this ammo crisis, now must have 100,000 rounds in their basement we will continue to have shortages and high prices."
Smart folks know that these shortages will come someday so they stock up on ammo when it's plentiful and reasonably priced. I have enough to serve my purposes so I'm not buying more at current prices.
Remember, when Noah built his ark, it wasn't raining.
I guess I should have said, "But as long as there are shooters, who didn't have a good stash of ammo prior to this ammo crisis, now must have 100,000 rounds in their basement we will continue to have shortages and high prices."
Smart folks know that these shortages will come someday so they stock up on ammo when it's plentiful and reasonably priced. I have enough to serve my purposes so I'm not buying more at current prices.
Remember, when Noah built his ark, it wasn't raining.
All clear... I agree with you entirely.
You're right that we stockpilers not only have tided over the industry during its lean times (preventing it from reducing capacity), but that we're also NOT buying ammo right now.
Side note: I'm sick and tired of the unprepared grasshoppers on other forums cursing us well-prepared ants as "hoarders" because we're sitting on plentiful stockpiles and still shooting, while they're paying $35 for a box of 9mm, if they can find it...
All clear... I agree with you entirely.
You're right that we stockpilers not only have tided over the industry during its lean times (preventing it from reducing capacity), but that we're also NOT buying ammo right now.
Side note: I'm sick and tired of the unprepared grasshoppers on other forums cursing us well-prepared ants as "hoarders" because we're sitting on plentiful stockpiles and still shooting, while they're paying $35 for a box of 9mm, if they can find it...
20 yrs ago I never had the amount of ammo, powder, primers and bullets that I do now. Never a need for it. But now with so much uncertainty in our country caused by anti-gun democrat politicians, we just don't have any choice. Now I consider ammo, powder, primers and bullets an investment that will never go down in value. Kinda like toilet paper.
And those grasshoppers who cursed us are now the ones who are responsible for the ammo shortage and high prices.
20 yrs ago I never had the amount of ammo, powder, primers and bullets that I do now. Never a need for it. But now with so much uncertainty in our country caused by anti-gun democrat politicians, we just don't have any choice. Now I consider ammo, powder, primers and bullets an investment that will never go down in value.
Me, neither, but in my case it wasn't "uncertainty," it was certainty.
I'm in California, and online ammo sales were basically banned several years ago, so I stocked up before the ban took effect.
I had always had a year or two's supply of ammo before then, but the impending inability to to buy lots of cheap ammo got me to buy a 10-20 year supply...
Some of my friends who shoot here in California laughed when I told them to stock up back in 2017. They're not laughing now.
This guy has a good explanation of the ammo crisis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b1KhQHILgo
iflyskyhigh
03-16-21, 17:16
20 yrs ago I never had the amount of ammo, powder, primers and bullets that I do now. Never a need for it. But now with so much uncertainty in our country caused by anti-gun democrat politicians, we just don't have any choice. Now I consider ammo, powder, primers and bullets an investment that will never go down in value. Kinda like toilet paper.
And those grasshoppers who cursed us are now the ones who are responsible for the ammo shortage and high prices.
I agree with you.
Are you open to the idea that the Republicans and Republican establishment is as much of a threat to our individual liberty and freedom as the Democrats?
Are you open to the idea that the Republicans and Republican establishment is as much of a threat to our individual liberty and freedom as the Democrats?
Open to the idea? Yes.
Believe it? No.
Everywhere I look, it's the left that's infringing on my rights, not the right.
Quite simply, I don't want to have a late-term abortion, but I do want to keep my guns.
This guy has a good explanation of the ammo crisis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b1KhQHILgo
I heard nothing about Ammo prices.
PB
iflyskyhigh
03-16-21, 20:41
Open to the idea? Yes.
Believe it? No.
Everywhere I look, it's the left that's infringing on my rights, not the right.
Quite simply, I don't want to have a late-term abortion, but I do want to keep my guns.
Guess we see what we want to see
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I agree with you.
Are you open to the idea that the Republicans and Republican establishment is as much of a threat to our individual liberty and freedom as the Democrats?
Well, we have to admit, to date no Democratic president, having lost an election, has assembled a mob, told them to fight, and sent them up to the Capitol while electoral votes are being counted.
iflyskyhigh
03-16-21, 21:43
Well, we have to admit, to date no Democratic president, having lost an election, has assembled a mob, told them to fight, and sent them up to the Capitol while electoral votes are being counted.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/6759f698d55f1484414a1626f7b6b471.gif
Just for clarification, we are the monkeys in this scenario. And the people are the Democrats and Republicans. We’re fighting a culture war while the political class bleeds the country dry. Instituting authoritarianism. Making themselves and all their friends unimaginable wealthy and powerful along the way.
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iflyskyhigh
03-16-21, 21:44
Well, we have to admit, to date no Democratic president, having lost an election, has assembled a mob, told them to fight, and sent them up to the Capitol while electoral votes are being counted.
So if we could just elect the right person we could turn this all around?
You’re message is a little ambiguous.
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Well, we have to admit, to date no Democratic president, having lost an election, has assembled a mob, told them to fight, and sent them up to the Capitol while electoral votes are being counted.Where were you in 2016? Did you miss Democrats telling their base to "confront" ?
2018 Kavanaugh hearings? That was ok?
Or are you referring to the EDITED video of Trump?
Or maybe the WaPo retracting a lie they published in Oct? Apparently their "source" was wrong after the original tapes were released! How convenient
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Well, we have to admit, to date no Democratic president, having lost an election, has assembled a mob, told them to fight, and sent them up to the Capitol while electoral votes are being counted.
And told everyone at the rally to 'Peacefully' do what?
???
Anyone that actually watches the rally you are describing and listens to everything Trump actually said to the the people attending will know before the end of that video that you are full of shit and coming here spreading BS to stir some sort of pot.
iflyskyhigh
03-16-21, 22:55
Well, we have to admit, to date no Democratic president, having lost an election, has assembled a mob, told them to fight, and sent them up to the Capitol while electoral votes are being counted.
Don’t get me wrong. Democrats are terrifying. Just trying to put to forth the possibility that the republicans are equally terrifying. I feel like the only one sometimes who sees that we keep doing the same things over and over expecting different results. I finally woke up to the fact the republicans were playing me.
You guys may not believe it, but there is a whole section dedicated to general discussion on this site. Its not titled Reloading & Ammunition, by the way.
You guys may not believe it, but there is a whole section dedicated to general discussion on this site. Its not titled Reloading & Ammunition, by the way.
THIS.
You guys may not believe it, but there is a whole section dedicated to general discussion on this site. Its not titled Reloading & Ammunition, by the way.
THIS.
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