View Full Version : Kimber, cost to ditch the MIM?
Without getting into the MIM debate, suppose one was looking to replace all of the MIM internals in a Series I Kimber with tool-steel parts. What would you expect to pay for this including parts and labor?
Let's assume that you're OK with the grip safety being made of MIM, but that the following parts should be changed:
-Disconnector
-Sear
-Hammer
-Slide Stop
-Thumb Safety
-Any and all pins (not sure if Kimber uses MIM here, but assume that they pins need to be changed anyway)
No interest in debate....
But can I have the leftover parts?:D
Actually, I imagine it would depend (in large part) on the specific parts you wanted
As in the brand
I am merely assuming that anyone that cares to get rid of MIM parts is going to be (perhaps) leaning towards higher end replacements
But I hate to assume
Otherwise you run the risk of having parts that are actually inferior to the originals
Is this a variation of the your post on louderthanwords?
Don't forget to add the cost of a trigger job.
Obviously assume good quality internals.
Heirloom Precision used to sell a hammer/disconnect/sear (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=22127&title=1911%20AUTO%20HAMMER,%20SEAR%20&%20DISCONNECTOR%20SET) through Brownells that retailed for $120 and was allegedly "drop in" and "without time-consuming fitting". What I know of Jason and Ted make me believe that these parts of very good quality.
So my thinking would be that all the parts themselves would fall in the $200 range. And I'm not looking for that "glass rod" trigger break, or a 2 lb pull, or anything like that. Something functional with minimal creep in the 4-5 lb range would be fine. Far more interested in reliability than eeking every ounce of slop out of the system.
Is this a variation of the your post on louderthanwords?
Don't forget to add the cost of a trigger job.
Variation, no, but maybe a spinoff. Think of this as "A Different World" to the other thread being "The Cosby Show". :D
Just wondering if you're looking for that reliable 1911 for under $1K.
Cylinder & Slide's trigger job kit was available through Brownells, I think they were under $150 for the 4.5lb range trigger break. I don't know if Brownells still sell them or not.
A few years ago I found a great sale on a Springfield Milspec at Galyan's, out the cost to me was $390. I shot it as is out of the box for a few months and found it was reliable, 100%. The sights were serviceable, trigger heavy but manageable, the edges were not sharp like a razor but the most important thing was the gun just plain runs. The GI grip safety was biting a bit so I needed to get that fixed. After determining that the inside parts didn't need to be tinkered with (yes, I know there were MIMs throughout), I decided to have my 'smith do a slight makeover of the exterior.
I like the look of the old school Heinie rear sight and since I carried the gun, I wanted a tritium front. The Wilson beavertail always felt comfortable to me, so that was added as well as a round commander style hammer. We replaced the trigger and I asked for a 4.5 lbs let off. I like the feel and cost of the Chip McCormick thumb safety. We also got rid of the trigger locking junks, so the mainspring housing was replaced with a Smith Alexander MSH with lanyard (for the old school look). The whole gun was parkerized.
The whole work was around $500 give or take some change, thus the entire gun cost around $900 (3+ years ago).
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/17880SA2.JPG
I regret that I no longer have this gun, sold it to a friend and it became his favorite carry gun after he had our 'smith bobtailed the gun.
I went another direction with similar results, to include eventually regretably selling the gun.
Started with a Kimber Series 1 Target. Replaced the adjustable rear sight with a fixed Heinie and tritium front myself. Shot the hell out of it. No problems. Wound up having the guts replaced (hammer, sear, disconnector, trigger) and the gun hard chromed. Continued to shoot the hell out of it.
Wound up heading down the semi-custom road for no real good reason other than to try it out. Eventually bought a Colt Series 70 repro with the intention of having the full bore custom job with years of wait time done to it.
now coming full circle to where I was in that a $2k+ pistol isn't really my bag. The Colt is sold, the Wilson is sold, the Ed Brown is on the block. Keeping the YB until I get something that works as well for less. Hoping that there might be some collector's cache in that one too.
Heirloom Precision used to sell a hammer/disconnect/sear (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=22127&title=1911%20AUTO%20HAMMER,%20SEAR%20&%20DISCONNECTOR%20SET) through Brownells that retailed for $120 and was allegedly "drop in" and "without time-consuming fitting". What I know of Jason and Ted make me believe that these parts of very good quality.
I had one. It was 'drop in'.
What I did notice is that the parts looked identical to a Les Baer set. The trigger pull was OK, but no where near as nice as the ones I've had professionally installed.
Why??? Your YB runs good by your admission and like they said, it's paid for. Who cares if it's $2k, unless you just want the difference in cash in your pocket.
Have you looked into the STI Trojan or Spartan? Those are around $1k and although cosmetically may not be perfect, I heard that they run like a sewing machine.
Or you can go 21st. century and get an M&P 45, runs right out of the box, 10+1, and around $500 if you look hard enough.
Rob, here is my Kimber Compact, which I bought in 2002, and the list of parts I installed. To the best of my recollection, most of the parts were ordered from Brownell's. The only thing I didn't do myself was the installation of the Novak sights.
C&S Tactical II kit 137.50
C&S Hammer Strut 12.50
Videcki Trigger 16.00
Ed Brown Firing pin stop 16.00
Ed Brown Firing Pin 10.00
Ed Brown Extractor HC 27.00
Ed Brown Mag Catch 20.00
Ed Brown Mag Catch Lock 4.00
Ed Brown Rebuild Kit 17.00
Ed Brown MSH 30 lpi 55.00
Wilson Thumb safety 26.00
Wilson Slide Stop 49.00
TOTAL 390.00
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/ronssmith/Guns/20060225a034.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/ronssmith/Guns/20060723a116.jpg
replacing those internal parts WILL require fitting. BTDT so figure the parts plus a quality gunsmith's time to fit.
ETA: slide stop probably wont require fitting :D
Without getting into the MIM debate, suppose one was looking to replace all of the MIM internals in a Series I Kimber with tool-steel parts. What would you expect to pay for this including parts and labor?
Let's assume that you're OK with the grip safety being made of MIM, but that the following parts should be changed:
-Disconnector
-Sear
-Hammer
-Slide Stop
-Thumb Safety
-Any and all pins (not sure if Kimber uses MIM here, but assume that they pins need to be changed anyway)
Rob, I'm doing the exact same thing right now to a 2005 Warrior. I didn't have a problem with it before but I wanted to remove all MIM parts.
All I will have left Kimber will be the Frame, Slide, Barrel.
Let me see if I can find my price list for everything. I tried to mirror 10-8 list of recommended parts.
I know the cost is over $1,200.
I didn't have a Series I, but I have a Custom II TLE that was a total problem child. I ended up getting it fixed (eventually) and then turned it into a project pistol. The only original parts are the barrel, bushing, grip safety and frame. The slide was replaced by Kimber in order to get the pistol to work properly, everything else I replaced and fitted myself.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c270/dspipes/1911s/443f3a7d.jpg
This is it in a former iteration. I've since changed the sights and the trigger.
I wish I could recall what all that cost to replace, but its been a few years. What I DO remember is that between the cost of the pistol, the headache getting Kimber to get it to work correctly, the time involved while they dickered with the pistol (eventually admitting that their external extractor was the major culprit) and then replacing all the parts, I really should have bought a better pistol in the first place. It would have saved me time and money.
Why??? Your YB runs good by your admission and like they said, it's paid for. Who cares if it's $2k, unless you just want the difference in cash in your pocket.
Difference in cash, or two pistols for the price of one ;)
Have you looked into the STI Trojan or Spartan? Those are around $1k and although cosmetically may not be perfect, I heard that they run like a sewing machine.
Thinking along those lines, and thinking of doing it in 9mm actually. If I get the EB sold that's where the cash will go; into a 9mm STI Trojan with fixed rear sight.
Or you can go 21st. century and get an M&P 45, runs right out of the box, 10+1, and around $500 if you look hard enough.
That's most likely where the rest of the EB money will go.
Unfortunately, my ultimate goal is to wind right back up where I started before I decided that what I had wasn't "good enough"; An all steel 5" to shoot and an aluminum frame 4" to carry. Albeit this time around the 5" will be 9mm.
Without getting into the MIM debate, suppose one was looking to replace all of the MIM internals in a Series I Kimber with tool-steel parts. What would you expect to pay for this including parts and labor?
Let's assume that you're OK with the grip safety being made of MIM, but that the following parts should be changed:
-Disconnector
-Sear
-Hammer
-Slide Stop
-Thumb Safety
-Any and all pins (not sure if Kimber uses MIM here, but assume that they pins need to be changed anyway)
from a Jan 2008 invoice...
Ignition kit: $85 + $95 duty trigger job. I provided a trigger.
Slide stop: $20 + $15 instl
EB wide thumb safety: $30 + $60 to fit, recontour to medium width, & reblue.
We also replaced the barrel bushing ($21+$34), ejector ($22+$35), firing-pin stop ($15+$20), and extractor ($42+$20).
Working with two different 'smiths on two similar pistols, neither recommended replacing the pins.
Just wondering if you're looking for that reliable 1911 for under $1K.
Cylinder & Slide's trigger job kit was available through Brownells, I think they were under $150 for the 4.5lb range trigger break. I don't know if Brownells still sell them or not.
A few years ago I found a great sale on a Springfield Milspec at Galyan's, out the cost to me was $390. I shot it as is out of the box for a few months and found it was reliable, 100%. The sights were serviceable, trigger heavy but manageable, the edges were not sharp like a razor but the most important thing was the gun just plain runs. The GI grip safety was biting a bit so I needed to get that fixed. After determining that the inside parts didn't need to be tinkered with (yes, I know there were MIMs throughout), I decided to have my 'smith do a slight makeover of the exterior.
I like the look of the old school Heinie rear sight and since I carried the gun, I wanted a tritium front. The Wilson beavertail always felt comfortable to me, so that was added as well as a round commander style hammer. We replaced the trigger and I asked for a 4.5 lbs let off. I like the feel and cost of the Chip McCormick thumb safety. We also got rid of the trigger locking junks, so the mainspring housing was replaced with a Smith Alexander MSH with lanyard (for the old school look). The whole gun was parkerized.
The whole work was around $500 give or take some change, thus the entire gun cost around $900 (3+ years ago).
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/17880SA2.JPG
I regret that I no longer have this gun, sold it to a friend and it became his favorite carry gun after he had our 'smith bobtailed the gun.
You did what I did. Last year I found a used but never fired Mil-Spec for $360. Shot it a bunch and sent it to the SA Custom Shop along with a 10-8 rear sight and long trigger. Had them fit a S&A beavertail and Swenson style thumb safety too. Also had a 4.5# trigger job done. They completely reparked the pistol free of charge. I sold it late last year to buy a G21SF. :rolleyes: A couple of weeks ago I sold the G21SF to my brother. I happened to walk into my favorite shop and there was my Springfield. Someone had bought it and didn't fire it. The parkerizing was in the same condition I had sold it. I bought it back.:D
You did what I did. Last year I found a used but never fired Mil-Spec for $360. Shot it a bunch and sent it to the SA Custom Shop along with a 10-8 rear sight and long trigger. Had them fit a S&A beavertail and Swenson style thumb safety too. Also had a 4.5# trigger job done. They completely reparked the pistol free of charge. I sold it late last year to buy a G21SF. :rolleyes: A couple of weeks ago I sold the G21SF to my brother. I happened to walk into my favorite shop and there was my Springfield. Someone had bought it and didn't fire it. The parkerizing was in the same condition I had sold it. I bought it back.:D
Out of curiosity, what did they charge you for all that? That might be another route for me to go. I even have the 10-8 trigger sitting in a box already, and a 10-8 sight sitting on gun that's not selling.
Rob - don't look over the parkerized springfield loaded. Not what you were originally thinking but the Kimber pre series II is harder to come by and will cost you more I think. I have a Kimber Compact pre series II and for a rugged beater I like my Loaded better. Kimber may come with a better barrel though.
Out of curiosity, what did they charge you for all that? That might be another route for me to go. I even have the 10-8 trigger sitting in a box already, and a 10-8 sight sitting on gun that's not selling.
I am thinking I paid somewhere in the vicinity of $350-$375.
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