View Full Version : Next Stop, Confiscation- Congress Creates Registry of Gun Owners
https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-push-gun-control-measures-opposed-by-republicans-11615464001
You will comply.
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 12:40
https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-push-gun-control-measures-opposed-by-republicans-11615464001
You will comply.
I can’t get that to open. Did the filibuster get nuked? And no, I won’t comply.
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Grand58742
03-11-21, 12:42
Is there really anyone surprised by this?
C'mon, man. We all knew this was coming. In fact, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner.
I can’t get that to open. Did the filibuster get nuked? And no, I won’t comply.
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The House passed a 100% background check law. You give a shotgun to your grandkid for xmas or simply as an heirloom- gotta run a background check on that. No more anonymous private sales.
This administration will pass and get whatever they want. I’m hoping it doesn’t get as bad as I think it will.
just a scout
03-11-21, 12:50
This administration will pass and get whatever they want. I’m hoping it doesn’t get as bad as I think it will.
It will be worse than what you imagine
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just a scout
03-11-21, 12:55
House Passes Democrat Bill Criminalizing Private Gun Sales https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/03/11/house-passes-democrat-bill-criminalizing-private-gun-sales/
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It's State Law in New Mexico, and everyone ignores it. Making it a Federal Law will be a law that everyone ignores too. It's a piece of feel-good legislation that has all kinds of exemptions for giving guns to spouses, children, grand children = no background check. This is just the warm up and opening act for the real nasty stuff they have planned. It's a gauge to see how many RINOs are on-board.
In the meantime Sportsman's Warehouse got in some Winchester M855 Green Tip in Albuquerque and bought some yesterday evening. Still @ .70 cents a round, but I had some extra cash in my wallet. Those of you who have a good arsenal of firearms, you will be the lucky ones, because you saw it coming many years before the current crop of gun buyers. You know there are a lot of us out there that meet that criteria of being in that lucky category. And when they get around to that National registry, the non-compliance will be off the charts, as it should be.
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 12:58
The House passed a 100% background check law. You give a shotgun to your grandkid for xmas or simply as an heirloom- gotta run a background check on that. No more anonymous private sales.
The house may have passed it, but it has to have 60 votes in the Senate. This isn’t law at this time.
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It looks like it mirrors Calif law. You can give a gift of a gun to an up or down family member without a background check.
.70 a round...almost a bargain these days.
m1a_scoutguy
03-11-21, 13:04
All bullshit & right it has NOT passed yet !! Anyways NY & its famous SAFE ACT have had this for years, everyONE takes it very seriously !!:rolleyes:
ChattanoogaPhil
03-11-21, 13:09
Arizonans with carry permits are exempt from background checks when purchasing a gun. Would that still apply if this bill becomes law?
The house may have passed it, but it has to have 60 votes in the Senate. This isn’t law at this time.
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Filibuster will be gone before it gets there.
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 13:25
Filibuster will be gone before it gets there.
That’s speculation. You stated congress has passed this. It hasn’t.
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That’s speculation. You stated congress has passed this. It hasn’t.
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More correctly I should have said- House passes.
But, I think it's pie in the sky to believe you are going to stop these people legislatively. Today, tomorrow etc...the damn border is OVER RUN. They will legalize those people, federalize elections etc....In a Democracy, demography is everything and it's NOT ON OUR SIDE. Simply cannot be denied statistically.
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 14:18
More correctly I should have said- House passes.
But, I think it's pie in the sky to believe you are going to stop these people legislatively. Today, tomorrow etc...the damn border is OVER RUN. They will legalize those people, federalize elections etc....In a Democracy, demography is everything and it's NOT ON OUR SIDE. Simply cannot be denied statistically.
Ok, roll over and give them your a$$hole. Let them have their way with you.
The rest of us will keep on working against them.
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Ok, roll over and give them your a$$hole. Let them have their way with you.
The rest of us will keep on working against them.
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Keep doing what doesn't work and expecting it will. That's helpful.
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 14:31
Keep doing what doesn't work and expecting it will. That's helpful.
I didn’t make any suggestions, but according to you, it’s all gloom and doom. Everyone should roll over.
You’re not offering solutions.
Every thread you start is doomed-porn.
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I didn’t make any suggestions, but according to you, it’s all gloom and doom. Everyone should roll over.
You’re not offering solutions.
Every thread you start is doomed-porn.
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Show me the unicorns and rainbows here, I'm all eyes.....
ETA: I'm not offering solutions because there are not any. Not in a peaceful, "democratic" manner. That's the point. There are still people who think somehow they will vote their way out of this.....not likely.
I like where this is heading
Keep doing what doesn't work and expecting it will. That's helpful.
What’s your solution? I’m not being a D*** either. I’m genuinely curious as I see you posting a lot about current events.
Mass non-compliance is a good first step in my mind. Gun rights are Civil Rights and non-compliance to laws attacking peoples’ Civil Rights is a duty of everyone.
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What’s your solution? I’m not being a D*** either. I’m genuinely curious as I see you posting a lot about current events.
Mass non-compliance is a good first step in my mind. Gun rights are Civil Rights and non-compliance to laws attacking peoples’ Civil Rights is a duty of everyone.
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Non compliance is mandatory. The personal seal of Thomas Jefferson was engraved - "Resistance to Tyranny is Obedience to God".
Non compliance will lead to violence though- these are violent people on the other side, they murdered between 50 and 100 MILLION in the last century- political violence doesn't scare them.
Everyone talks about Ghandi and peaceful resistance. Here is a quote of his that somehow you never hear- "I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence... I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor."
That quote mirrors Solzhenitsyns when he was talking about resistance as well- ..."and later how we burned in the camps...."
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 14:49
What’s your solution? I’m not being a D*** either. I’m genuinely curious as I see you posting a lot about current events.
Mass non-compliance is a good first step in my mind. Gun rights are Civil Rights and non-compliance to laws attacking peoples’ Civil Rights is a duty of everyone.
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He just said he has no solution other than shooting people.
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He just said he has no solution other than shooting people.
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-Well reasoned Adult Discussion
-Impassioned, but civil debates
-Appealing to your responsive elected Officials
-Demanding your elected Officials respect the totality of their constituency
-Voting out your Elected Officials <—— You are here
-Passive Non-Compliance
-Active Non-Compliance
-Shooting People
MikhailBarracuda91
03-11-21, 15:01
I don't think it's going to pass in the Senate. But I do think we're going to have a really nasty year until we get some power back in the midterm elections in 2022
And I do think we're at least taking back the Senate, possibly even the House considering how close it is now.
I know a lot of conservatives are let down, and think it doesn't matter because all of the GOP is RINOS. But you what? Having a Republican majority is better than having a Democratic one.
With Democrats you don't have to worry about RINOS, they're all guaranteed gun grabbers. So quit crying and get your asses out there to VOTE! [emoji1258][emoji1258][emoji1258]
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Illegitimate governments have consequences.
Gabriel556
03-11-21, 15:08
I emailed my senators to urge voting no and representatives to tell them I am ashamed of them for voting yes already. Of course I live in Illinois so my representation is Dem or RINO.
Illegitimate governments have consequences.
Before you go Arfcom on us. Understand this...
The government is legitimate. Go ahead and peel that bandaid now. Thanks to a boom in immigration, national gerrymandering, carpetbagging on an unprecedented scale, and a total miscegenation of the voting block; they hit all the right moves. They did. You just don’t like the end result. They push the narrative they police the speech, they do it all.
You just vote every couple of years. They work 24/7. IF your thesis were true, we would already be shooting people.
The sad reality is that most of you (as in the Republican Christian Mom and Apple Pie types) will do nothing but take it. You’ll type angrily and have your group therapy sessions but nothing will get done.
As long as you have the carrot that is a job, a house, children, a retirement, blah blah blah you’ll all eventually sing the same sad song
“Oh if I wasn’t married with kids, I’d show you”
These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And they’re winning. And you’re not.
Why then, aren’t you winning?
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 15:18
Before you go Arfcom on us. Understand this...
The government is legitimate. Go ahead and peel that bandaid now. Thanks to a boom in immigration, national gerrymandering, carpetbagging on an unprecedented scale, and a total miscegenation of the voting block; they hit all the right moves. They did. You just don’t like the end result. They push the narrative they police the speech, they do it all.
You just vote every couple of years. They work 24/7. IF your thesis were true, we would already be shooting people.
The sad reality is that most of you (as in the Republican Christian Mom and Apple Pie types) will do nothing but take it. You’ll type angrily and have your group therapy sessions but nothing will get done.
As long as you have the carrot that is a job, a house, children, a retirement, blah blah blah you’ll all eventually sing the same sad song
“Oh if I wasn’t married with kids, I’d show you”
These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And they’re winning. And you’re not.
Why then, aren’t you winning?
Cool who do we shoot first?
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Gabriel556
03-11-21, 15:25
Play their game. Don’t shoot. They will never ban cars from personal possession. Vehicles are more dangerous than guns yet any 16 year old can use one, it doesn’t require a background check. Get what I’m saying?
OP seems to live for shit-stirring drama on M4C Gen Discussion. He constantly does this, ad nauseum.
With Democrats you don't have to worry about RINOS, they're all guaranteed gun grabbers. So quit crying and get your asses out there to VOTE!
This, we need to let them know that we are still here.
OP seems to live for shit-stirring drama on M4C Gen Discussion. He constantly does this, ad nauseum.
Virtue signaling goes both ways.
-Well reasoned Adult Discussion
-Impassioned, but civil debates
-Appealing to your responsive elected Officials
-Demanding your elected Officials respect the totality of their constituency
-Voting out your Elected Officials <—— You are here
-Passive Non-Compliance
-Active Non-Compliance
-Shooting People
I’d say you’re spot on and your next line is what I’ve advocated for. Here’s my personal actual view on all this. I’m not Rambo or some elite operator - so let’s get that out of the way.
To your point in your subsequent post; Yup I do have a job, family, house, all of it. I personally ain’t gonna save the world. Here’s what I can do though. Keep living exactly how I always have and that in itself is giving a giant middle finger to these pricks. I’ll not bow down at their alter and I’ll not change how I go about my business. Someone will have to physically come stop me if it comes to it.
I’ve made my peace with the current way of the world. I’ll try to persuade as many people as I can to my point of view, but in the end I can only really be responsible for myself and my family.
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Before you go Arfcom on us. Understand this...
The government is legitimate. Go ahead and peel that bandaid now. Thanks to a boom in immigration, national gerrymandering, carpetbagging on an unprecedented scale, and a total miscegenation of the voting block; they hit all the right moves. They did. You just don’t like the end result. They push the narrative they police the speech, they do it all.
You just vote every couple of years. They work 24/7. IF your thesis were true, we would already be shooting people.
The sad reality is that most of you (as in the Republican Christian Mom and Apple Pie types) will do nothing but take it. You’ll type angrily and have your group therapy sessions but nothing will get done.
As long as you have the carrot that is a job, a house, children, a retirement, blah blah blah you’ll all eventually sing the same sad song
“Oh if I wasn’t married with kids, I’d show you”
These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And they’re winning. And you’re not.
Why then, aren’t you winning?
Not wrong in the lead up....but I still believe there are people who will fight. They may be few, but that's the nature of this kind of struggle.
We faced only thousands of active insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan- well under 10,000 in both cases- albeit with a supportive population. The IRA never fielded more than a few hundred "shooters". Active, in the field troops, were 3% of the Colonial population during our Revolution......It doesn't take many quite honestly....
OP seems to live for shit-stirring drama on M4C Gen Discussion. He constantly does this, ad nauseum.
I'm a political person by nature. Many are not. It's unfortunate that it impacts every aspect of our lives and especially as shooters- but it does. If it's not a topic you care about, spring is almost here and I'm sure the Golf Courses are open, it's vacation season, March Madness is on the Tube, Facebook has many funny memes and interesting personal stories of great import, and the bars and restaurants are open-mostly.....
-Well reasoned Adult Discussion
-Impassioned, but civil debates
-Appealing to your responsive elected Officials
-Demanding your elected Officials respect the totality of their constituency
-Voting out your Elected Officials <—— You are here
-Passive Non-Compliance
-Active Non-Compliance
-Shooting People
You been on vacation or what? We're way down on crucifixion references lately.
FWIW, I'll check how Burgess voted but I'm sure it was against. Lee will be a no in the Senate. Romney probably loves it but it's 50/50 if he has the stones to vote for it and show his true colors.
I'm predicting it fails to pass the Senate. But it's coming. We will all have to choose our own line in the sand. Me... still looking for a good exit strategy.
Bah more 3% talk.
Lessay for poops and loops; we had a hellacious Civil War where everybody got to kill everybody they didn’t like with their favorite guns. Lessay half the military joined in so you had actual air support
Okay what you have done is committed to a Pyrrhic victory whereupon your economy is non-existent and you will have essentially an American style Syria situation.
Because the infighting will come over who is the most Republican Republican, who is in charge, what constitution to use, blah blah blah.
You are losing because you aren’t spending the money. It’s fun to shoot people. It is. But you can only do it a few times before it becomes counter productive.
The NRA did a lot of stupid things but one thing they DID do was keep lawsuits going and injunctions in play.
You need MONEY. Always MONEY. You gotta get the country club Republicans, to include Bitch Mcconnell, OUTTA THERE. They are gate keeping their own wealth.
We don’t gotta kill people we can just buy off. Do you know how many battles were avoided with cases of money?
Nobody thinks anymore.
Bah more 3% talk.
Lessay for poops and loops; we had a hellacious Civil War where everybody got to kill everybody they didn’t like with their favorite guns. Lessay half the military joined in so you had actual air support
Okay what you have done is committed to a Pyrrhic victory whereupon your economy is non-existent and you will have essentially an American style Syria situation.
Because the infighting will come over who is the most Republican Republican, who is in charge, what constitution to use, blah blah blah.
You are losing because you aren’t spending the money. It’s fun to shoot people. It is. But you can only do it a few times before it becomes counter productive.
The NRA did a lot of stupid things but one thing they DID do was keep lawsuits going and injunctions in play.
You need MONEY. Always MONEY. You gotta get the country club Republicans, to include Bitch Mcconnell, OUTTA THERE. They are gate keeping their own wealth.
We don’t gotta kill people we can just buy off. Do you know how many battles were avoided with cases of money?
Nobody thinks anymore.
That's certainly what the Chinese are banking on. Why go to war with the US when you can buy them much more cheaply....
Some shooters in Ca. have been actively resisting for years and years. After 20 yrs, starting with the first registration scheme, we still haven't arrived at confiscation. Severe rights encroachment...yes...but no confiscation...yet. The left is, of course, becoming more and more hostile, so things could change rapidly for the worse, but still in Ca. no confiscation.
More correctly I should have said- House passes.
But, I think it's pie in the sky to believe you are going to stop these people legislatively. Today, tomorrow etc...the damn border is OVER RUN. They will legalize those people, federalize elections etc....In a Democracy, demography is everything and it's NOT ON OUR SIDE. Simply cannot be denied statistically.
The U.S. is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy.
Is there any rallying ideas out there that could move a few million people to start shooting? Any billionaires willing to bankroll the boog? Any leaders? Any foreign country willing to help? Probably no to all of these questions.
So who were the panty wetting so called republicans that voted for this?
So who were the panty wetting so called republicans that voted for this?
Vern Buchanan of Florida
Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania
Maria Salazar of Florida
Andrew Garbarino of New York
Chris Smith of New Jersey
Fred Upton of Michigan
Carlos Gimenez of Florida
Adam Kinzinger of Illinois
Is there any rallying ideas out there that could move a few million people to start shooting? Not enough money in the world to raise an army like that. Any billionaires willing to bankroll the boog? hah! He thinks a Billionaire has enough money. Any leaders? Any followers? Any foreign country willing to help? Wanting to be beholden to another country? JFC no thanks! Probably no to all of these questions.
Lots of Wow in your post
Vern Buchanan of Florida
Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania
Maria Salazar of Florida
Andrew Garbarino of New York
Chris Smith of New Jersey
Fred Upton of Michigan
Carlos Gimenez of Florida
Adam Kinzinger of Illinois
Time to primary challenge this worthless trash!
ETA: Yea, I know.. Romney. I wish there was a way. He's in tight with the magic pajama crowd. Nuttin I can do.
"There are NO solutions, only trade offs". Thomas Sowell
There are consequences though and one of them will be conflict. Its just a matter of time.
Maybe this is the reason for the fence and the NG in DC.
"There are NO solutions, only trade offs". Thomas Sowell
There are consequences though and one of them will be conflict. Its just a matter of time.
The conflicts will be small scale at best. they'll throw a lot of firepower at those to scare everybody.
Lots of Wow in your post
I did say billionaire(s). Didn't the French help the U.S. during the 1st revolution? Think so.
So exactly why do so many think that a shooting war works out in our favor? If the shooting starts, it's more likely to be the last gasp of a once great nation. All the kings horses and all the kings men...
It'll be a thousand party cage match, with every major to half ass foreign power throwing in. Trust me, not one will be looking to help you. And that "silent majority" crap? If they won't vote what makes you think they'll fight, and what makes you think it'll will be with you?
The Fragmented Fiefdoms of freaking Somalia is what it will become. Get real. I'll shoot and play guerrilla fighter if I have to, but I ain't expecting anything good to come of it. I'll just be looking to live another day and maybe wreak a little vengeance on my way out.
titsonritz
03-11-21, 17:33
You will comply.
No...no, I will not, I will die before I comply and I will prefer it that way.
Vern Buchanan of Florida
Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania
Maria Salazar of Florida
Andrew Garbarino of New York
Chris Smith of New Jersey
Fred Upton of Michigan
Carlos Gimenez of Florida
Adam Kinzinger of Illinois
Brian Fitz....the RINO bootlicker who wants to keep his cushy job....we really are trying on primary him out
The U.S. is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy.
Lol. Literally.
Your statement depends on the Rule of Law being the cornerstone of the Republic. Yes? Do I need to count the ways in which it is clearly not? Theory vs reality. It was Franklin who said, "A REPUBLIC---if you can keep it"...I would submit that we have not.
ETA: I honestly don't mean to be insulting but when the only person indicted in the Russia/lying to the FISA Court is the friggen mail clerk practically, you can't say stuff like that and not expect peals of laughter.
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 18:04
Lol. Literally.
Your statement depends on the Rule of Law being the cornerstone of the Republic. Yes? Do I need to count the ways in which it is clearly not? Theory vs reality. It was Franklin who said, "A REPUBLIC---if you can keep it"...I would submit that we have not.
ETA: I honestly don't mean to be insulting but when the only person indicted in the Russia/lying to the FISA Court is the friggen mail clerk practically, you can't say stuff like that and not expect peals of laughter.
Our founders would have already been shooting.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-push-gun-control-measures-opposed-by-republicans-11615464001
You will comply.
Uh huh. I'll get right on that.
Lol. Literally.
Your statement depends on the Rule of Law being the cornerstone of the Republic. Yes? Do I need to count the ways in which it is clearly not? Theory vs reality. It was Franklin who said, "A REPUBLIC---if you can keep it"...I would submit that we have not.
ETA: I honestly don't mean to be insulting but when the only person indicted in the Russia/lying to the FISA Court is the friggen mail clerk practically, you can't say stuff like that and not expect peals of laughter.
It is factually incorrect to say the US is a democracy. We need to stop referring to it as one.
Im not insulted.
Andy
Not wrong in the lead up....but I still believe there are people who will fight. They may be few, but that's the nature of this kind of struggle.
We faced only thousands of active insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan- well under 10,000 in both cases- albeit with a supportive population. The IRA never fielded more than a few hundred "shooters". Active, in the field troops, were 3% of the Colonial population during our Revolution......It doesn't take many quite honestly....
Anyone recall an asshat named Dorner?
You know, when I hear people say that gun prohibition can't occur here, I am always reminded of the real Prohibition. You couldn't legally buy alcohol in this country!!! Think about it. And it wasn't just some f****d-up law.....oh NOOOOO, it was a flippin' Constitutional Amendment! And it took one to undo it I might add.
That said, the "underground" took root and met the need. People still drank alcohol. It actually ranks right up there as a prima-donna Amendment which was ignored (like quite a few others in more recent times).
I also wonder about the relevance of what you're actually "banning"; you ban booze, we throw empty bottles at you. You ban guns, uh, well.......:rolleyes:
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-11-21, 18:45
It's not registration yet, that comes next, probably at the state level. Assuming the shadow registration from 4473 doesn't just appear someday, that is the next step. Not there yet. yet.
Anyone recall an asshat named Dorner?
Anyone know why ATF attempted to end the Waco siege when they did? If you read the official report, one of the stated reasons was that the Feds could not sustain the siege any longer, their Tactical Teams were flat wore out and losing operational capability.
ONE bunch of kooks in ONE place.....
These guys will be tripping over themselves to comply
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/gang-member-gun-stealing-backpack-girl-27639990.jpg
https://aaregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gangs-in-black-america.jpg
https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/NNYVF3SXKHOS6WIQQNLCWF52BI.jpg
http://www.readfrontier.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Red-dirt-defense2.jpg
Well that’s okay. There’s always next time.
The House passed a 100% background check law. You give a shotgun to your grandkid for xmas or simply as an heirloom- gotta run a background check on that. No more anonymous private sales.
That isn't quite registration. It's not good but that is far from a firearm database.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-11-21, 18:53
Anyone know why ATF attempted to end the Waco siege when they did? If you read the official report, one of the stated reasons was that the Feds could not sustain the siege any longer, their Tactical Teams were flat wore out and losing operational capability.
ONE bunch of kooks in ONE place.....
THIS.
In Colorado last weekend, a bunch of Frat boys and girls TORE up a Boulder neighboorhood after they had had enough COVID Lockdown BS. Police couldn't do anything about it.
Then, probably on a totally different demographic, street races shut down a major highway with hundreds of cars blocking the way of police trying to respond.
This was just people blowing off steam - and the authorities really couldn't do anything about it.
These guys will be tripping over themselves to comply
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/gang-member-gun-stealing-backpack-girl-27639990.jpg
https://aaregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gangs-in-black-america.jpg
https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/NNYVF3SXKHOS6WIQQNLCWF52BI.jpg
http://www.readfrontier.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Red-dirt-defense2.jpg
Well that’s okay. There’s always next time.
Useful idiots and Fellow Travelers are exempt from such legalisms......
THIS.
In Colorado last weekend, a bunch of Frat boys and girls TORE up a Boulder neighboorhood after they had had enough COVID Lockdown BS. Police couldn't do anything about it.
Then, probably on a totally different demographic, street races shut down a major highway with hundreds of cars blocking the way of police trying to respond.
This was just people blowing off steam - and the authorities really couldn't do anything about it.
If the skirmishes multiplied and intensified wouldn't they start sending in the NG with some serious ROE?
If the skirmishes multiplied and intensified wouldn't they start sending in the NG with some serious ROE?
There was a police station in Aurora last summer where the police were CHAINED in the building while a crowd prepared cans of gas...No shit, look it up.
These guys will be tripping over themselves to comply
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/gang-member-gun-stealing-backpack-girl-27639990.jpg
https://aaregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gangs-in-black-america.jpg
https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/NNYVF3SXKHOS6WIQQNLCWF52BI.jpg
http://www.readfrontier.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Red-dirt-defense2.jpg
Well that’s okay. There’s always next time.
Thems be lee-git citizen militia like my comptushun says. It's dem racist white folks that's killin everbody.
That isn't quite registration. It's not good but that is far from a firearm database.
Not THAT far off. How do you Enforce a complete background check mandate if people can still sell/trade things at will with no way of proving who had what when?
Individual buy busts I guess but that's not what they want and we all know it.
Not THAT far off. How do you Enforce a complete background check mandate if people can still sell/trade things at will with no way of proving who had what when?
Individual buy busts I guess but that's not what they want and we all know it.
So when I sell a Glock 19, I don't provide make, model or serial number. State of Iowa only knows I sold a handgun to the person in question.
That is still a LONG way from gun registration.
Now, with that said, I in no way support universal background checks because it should only be necessary for licensed dealers. That is how background checks were originally presented to us, as something only licensed dealers would engage in and it would not be infringement upon the average gun owner which UBC's would be.
So we absolutely have to fight this to prevent it from ever becoming that. But it isn't THAT yet, thankfully. We should simply be clear about where we are, exactly what they are talking about and why it's a bad idea.
-Well reasoned Adult Discussion
-Impassioned, but civil debates
-Appealing to your responsive elected Officials
-Demanding your elected Officials respect the totality of their constituency
-Voting out your Elected Officials <—— You are here
-Passive Non-Compliance
-Active Non-Compliance
-Shooting People
Voting doesn’t work or did you not see what happened in nov?
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PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 20:08
So when I sell a Glock 19, I don't provide make, model or serial number. State of Iowa only knows I sold a handgun to the person in question.
That is still a LONG way from gun registration.
Now, with that said, I in no way support universal background checks because it should only be necessary for licensed dealers. That is how background checks were originally presented to us, as something only licensed dealers would engage in and it would not be infringement upon the average gun owner which UBC's would be.
So we absolutely have to fight this to prevent it from ever becoming that. But it isn't THAT yet, thankfully. We should simply be clear about where we are, exactly what they are talking about and why it's a bad idea.
It’s not gun registration, but it is de facto registration of gun owners.
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There was a police station in Aurora last summer where the police were CHAINED in the building while a crowd prepared cans of gas...No shit, look it up.
Yes, I remember that one. The things is that when you get down to it the rioters, IMO, were holding back on the violence. It wasn't like they stormed the station and tried to shoot all the cops with AR's, willing to get into firefights. When serious shooting begins, things are going to be much much different than they were last summer.
It’s not gun registration, but it is de facto registration of gun owners.
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It is IF NICS retains the information. However currently the law is all other information, except the NTN and date, will be destroyed after not more than 90 days from the date of inquiry. (2)Use of information in the NICS Audit Log.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9#:~:text=All%20other%20information%2C%20except%20the%20NTN%20and%20date%2C,%282%29Use%20of%20information%20in%20the%20NICS%20Audit%20Log.
Now if we catch them violating that law, then that is some serious business and that should be our focus.
As originally presented, background checks should be reasonable fast and should not infringe upon the law abiding gun owner and that is usually the case. We should support what are truly "reasonable" attempt to keep guns out of the hands of prohibited people. None of us wants criminals to get guns and then use them against us, our families or any other innocent party. That is why we went along with the idea originally.
What we need to object to is:
1. Prohibited people who are denied by NICS without consequence. I have never once seen anyone follow up on a denial even though attempting to obtain a firearm is usually a felony. It makes ZERO sense to go through this song and dance if they do nothing when a prohibited person is actually identified by the NICS process.
2. Background check responsibility being applied to non dealers. This is the problem with UBCs, you are forcing a private citizen to accept many of the responsibilities of a licensed dealer without any of the protections of being a FFL. If they are going to force everyone to function as a FFL then all of those same people should automatically qualify for home based FFLs with out any "engaged in business for profit" requirements. You can't have it both ways. Either a person is a licensed dealer or they are a private party selling private property which is not the perview of ATF or NICS.
3. Illegal databasing of firearms or firearm owners. ATF is permitted to selectively sample 4473s to ensure proper record keeping and compliance on the part of FFLs. But with the exception of housing 4473s from dealers who have retired their license, ATF is not allowed to create or maintain any kind of searchable database. This is why all firearm traces have to start at the manufacture and then work through distributors, dealers and end purchasers. But as private citizens are NOT licensed individuals they have no obligation to create or maintain records of sale and this was a big part of the agreed upon rules when the FFL system was created and expanded with the 1968 GCA.
Federal agencies who attempt to create or maintain databases of tracked firearms or firearm owners or who retain information of transactions after 90 days need to be vigorously investigated and prosecuted as they are actually in violation of federal law. This is sometimes done on the state level where they actually practice true firearms registration, but that needs to be corrected at the state level.
We need to do those things instead of declaring the sky is falling and here comes registration / confiscation. Everyone needs to understand how things really work and to focus on the actual threats or better yet focus on enforcement of the rules federal agencies have to operate under.
The_War_Wagon
03-11-21, 21:05
The House passed a 100% background check law. You give a shotgun to your grandkid for xmas or simply as an heirloom- gotta run a background check on that. No more anonymous private sales.
24 hour drone surveillance of every domicile in the country? :confused:
PracticalRifleman
03-11-21, 21:21
It is IF NICS retains the information. However currently the law is all other information, except the NTN and date, will be destroyed after not more than 90 days from the date of inquiry. (2)Use of information in the NICS Audit Log.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/28/25.9#:~:text=All%20other%20information%2C%20except%20the%20NTN%20and%20date%2C,%282%29Use%20of%20information%20in%20the%20NICS%20Audit%20Log.
Now if we catch them violating that law, then that is some serious business and that should be our focus.
As originally presented, background checks should be reasonable fast and should not infringe upon the law abiding gun owner and that is usually the case. We should support what are truly "reasonable" attempt to keep guns out of the hands of prohibited people. None of us wants criminals to get guns and then use them against us, our families or any other innocent party. That is why we went along with the idea originally.
What we need to object to is:
1. Prohibited people who are denied by NICS without consequence. I have never once seen anyone follow up on a denial even though attempting to obtain a firearm is usually a felony. It makes ZERO sense to go through this song and dance if they do nothing when a prohibited person is actually identified by the NICS process.
2. Background check responsibility being applied to non dealers. This is the problem with UBCs, you are forcing a private citizen to accept many of the responsibilities of a licensed dealer without any of the protections of being a FFL. If they are going to force everyone to function as a FFL then all of those same people should automatically qualify for home based FFLs with out any "engaged in business for profit" requirements. You can't have it both ways. Either a person is a licensed dealer or they are a private party selling private property which is not the perview of ATF or NICS.
3. Illegal databasing of firearms or firearm owners. ATF is permitted to selectively sample 4473s to ensure proper record keeping and compliance on the part of FFLs. But with the exception of housing 4473s from dealers who have retired their license, ATF is not allowed to create or maintain any kind of searchable database. This is why all firearm traces have to start at the manufacture and then work through distributors, dealers and end purchasers. But as private citizens are NOT licensed individuals they have no obligation to create or maintain records of sale and this was a big part of the agreed upon rules when the FFL system was created and expanded with the 1968 GCA.
Federal agencies who attempt to create or maintain databases of tracked firearms or firearm owners or who retain information of transactions after 90 days need to be vigorously investigated and prosecuted as they are actually in violation of federal law. This is sometimes done on the state level where they actually practice true firearms registration, but that needs to be corrected at the state level.
We need to do those things instead of declaring the sky is falling and here comes registration / confiscation. Everyone needs to understand how things really work and to focus on the actual threats or better yet focus on enforcement of the rules federal agencies have to operate under.
To think that there is no chain attached to every search that can be accessed is naive, IMO.
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Look. I know plenty of the “fellas” as Colin Flaherty likes to say who never lose a wink of sleep over their guns and like none of them ever even heard of the ATF.
Think about that.
RobertTheTexan
03-11-21, 22:22
Before you go Arfcom on us. Understand this...
The government is legitimate. Go ahead and peel that bandaid now. Thanks to a boom in immigration, national gerrymandering, carpetbagging on an unprecedented scale, and a total miscegenation of the voting block; they hit all the right moves. They did. You just don’t like the end result. They push the narrative they police the speech, they do it all.
You just vote every couple of years. They work 24/7. IF your thesis were true, we would already be shooting people.
The sad reality is that most of you (as in the Republican Christian Mom and Apple Pie types) will do nothing but take it. You’ll type angrily and have your group therapy sessions but nothing will get done.
As long as you have the carrot that is a job, a house, children, a retirement, blah blah blah you’ll all eventually sing the same sad song
“Oh if I wasn’t married with kids, I’d show you”
These people have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And they’re winning. And you’re not.
Why then, aren’t you winning?
Why aren’t “you” winning? Wow. You say “before you go barfcom, understand this”
Ok, then understand this:
You skipped barfcom and landed on Full Retard Park Place.
Silly Wabbit, Trix are for kids.
Oh and I rarely find wisdom when it’s saturated in arrogance. But great job pointing the finger at the demographic you love hate. Btw, bitterness Is literally dripping from that post.
Raise your hand if you were motivated by that little speech.
RobertTheTexan
03-11-21, 22:28
https://i.postimg.cc/d3nYNvNT/058-FD6-EB-AD16-4-CB8-A540-54795-E581-E52.gif
Oh and howdy M4Cers. Seems like years since I’ve stopped by..
I have been drinking, so going on the internet makes as much sense as dry firing a gun right now. Since I lost some hearing in my right ear when my team mate shot a terrorist with his flash suppressor besides my right ear, I think this might be safer.
I as everyone know am Jewish my guns will be as under the radar as a child from El Salvador crossing the USA border tomorrow.
Make me felon, make me upset for a minute and then watch out.
When the government fails to address issues that are salient to the masses, in the end the masses will revolt. Had to memorize that for a test a million years ago. Used it through a career.
Go ahead ban guns, see what you get!
Time for a drink.
To think that there is no chain attached to every search that can be accessed is naive, IMO.
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Chasing theoretical "boogeymen" is not as productive as informed watch dogging. Please understand what I'm saying.
Voting doesn’t work or did you not see what happened in nov?
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That seems to depend on the State you live in. Dems lost a remarkable number of seats in the House; the trend was diametrically different from the official result for POTUS.
If they already had a real lock on everything, they wouldn't need House Bill 1. Study that bill and you may find out what they need for complete control in the remaining states.
They need mail in votes.
They need automatic voter registration.
They need to limit voter ID.
They need extra time after election day to 'receive' ballots.
They need to avoid efforts to update voter rolls.
They need extra time after election day to 'count' votes.
They need to extend early voting.
They need to start counting ahead of election day.
They want to be able to see (in real time) who has and who hasn't voted.
I'm sure there's more but I have not had time to read it all.
Why aren’t “you” winning? Wow. You say “before you go barfcom, understand this”
Ok, then understand this:
You skipped barfcom and landed on Full Retard Park Place.
Silly Wabbit, Trix are for kids.
Oh and I rarely find wisdom when it’s saturated in arrogance. But great job pointing the finger at the demographic you love hate. Btw, bitterness Is literally dripping from that post.
Raise your hand if you were motivated by that little speech.
If you think about it. I am winning. I’m set up in a position where I would effectively be one of the ones loading people onto the trains after actively disarming them. But yet, I say that it’s not a fun place to be. I have a conscience still.
I mean, in the 30s they were killing people over something you can buy at any gas station. And I feel bad for you. I can find wisdom in anything.
I have earned my bitterness, but I am also a champion of lost causes. You can either do the same things you’ve been doing and say the same things you’ve been saying.
Or you accept that this will be a social conflict fought better with money and influence rather than betting it all on a guy with an (R) by his name. Because they’ve really stuck their necks out for us.
BTW Rob, seen many California tags lately?
titsonritz
03-12-21, 02:54
These guys will be tripping over themselves to comply
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/gang-member-gun-stealing-backpack-girl-27639990.jpg
https://aaregistry.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gangs-in-black-america.jpg
https://cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/NNYVF3SXKHOS6WIQQNLCWF52BI.jpg
http://www.readfrontier.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Red-dirt-defense2.jpg
Well that’s okay. There’s always next time.
But at least most are obeying the mask mandate. :jester:
The culmination of un-American BS is going lead to revolt. What sets it off is anyones guess. People that revolt do so not just to have a better life in a few days but because they've reached a point that so many lines have been crossed that there simply are no other options. Civil wars are long and brutal with many hardships. Thats where we are heading.
This is why the gov has attempted to take the fight out of the American male through the pussification of America. The question to honestly ask yourself is, "is there any fight in me?"
We have reached the point where thats all thats left unless you want to keep telling yourself we still have it better than the average chinaman while your country becomes more like china.
Regardless of whether or not you have any fight or resistance in you, once guns are out of the equation you have nothing to fight back or resist with and you can be controlled at the whims of whatever the political, social, cultural winds dictate.
To think that there is no chain attached to every search that can be accessed is naive, IMO.
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Tell me what "procedure" could be more legally demanding than getting a wiretap etc vs. POTUS? All kinds of safeguards, right, special super secret squirrel Court Proceeding with special jurisdiction....Sure....
But I guess in the end they indicted a Mail Room Clerk at the FBI, so, I sleep well at night secure in the knowledge that Government Employees are hard at work safeguarding MY rights.......
That seems to depend on the State you live in. Dems lost a remarkable number of seats in the House; the trend was diametrically different from the official result for POTUS.
If they already had a real lock on everything, they wouldn't need House Bill 1. Study that bill and you may find out what they need for complete control in the remaining states.
They need mail in votes.
They need automatic voter registration.
They need to limit voter ID.
They need extra time after election day to 'receive' ballots.
They need to avoid efforts to update voter rolls.
They need extra time after election day to 'count' votes.
They need to extend early voting.
They need to start counting ahead of election day.
They want to be able to see (in real time) who has and who hasn't voted.
I'm sure there's more but I have not had time to read it all.
That of course is for Perma Rule. Which, they will get. They won everything they really had to this go round. BOTH Ga Senate races.....Come on, man!
Esq. is not all gloom and doom. He's merely pointing out reality that many refuse to see or accept. For those that want to know or ask, "ok what are are you going to do?" At this point the more people that grasp the reality of the situation we face the better because one person or even a few dudes is not enough. Its not going to take a majority to set things right but 1/3 can make things happen.
PracticalRifleman
03-12-21, 07:32
Chasing theoretical "boogeymen" is not as productive as informed watch dogging. Please understand what I'm saying.
I do understand what you’re saying. But to think names on NICS checks can’t be instantly accessed is foolish. While there may not be a “list” or”registry,” that information is easily accessible. This isn’t a “theoretical boogieman”.
But hey, go ahead and trust that the FBI is on the up and up and of highest moral character. The ATF has never done shady stuff, either.
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PracticalRifleman
03-12-21, 07:36
Tell me what "procedure" could be more legally demanding than getting a wiretap etc vs. POTUS? All kinds of safeguards, right, special super secret squirrel Court Proceeding with special jurisdiction....Sure....
But I guess in the end they indicted a Mail Room Clerk at the FBI, so, I sleep well at night secure in the knowledge that Government Employees are hard at work safeguarding MY rights.......
They safeguard your rights like they safeguard the boarder under a leftist administration.
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What’s the old saying? “There is no ‘list’ just a collection of names”.
They know you have guns. They know you most likely will lie about selling it all at a gunshow because “Household 6” told you to do so. They know you’re using apps to communicate. There is no such thing as “secure crypto” that you can download from the App or Play store. If you are savvy enough to be on the Deep/Dark/Alt Web they know that too. TOR was a Navy program after all and they’ve been doing Crypto longer than any branch. Second Smartest after Air Force.
They know how much you make. And they read all the forums.
You can make it not so easy for them. But not impossible. And even if you are a regular Dade Murphy. A veritable Henry Dorsett Case, you still have an adult life starting from age 18. Licenses. Property. Vehicles. Leases. Loans.
But above all else, people who know you. You see, it’s not the ATF Brute Squad. The ATF are total jokes as police. They were always Treasury enforcement. Not door kickers. Same with FBI. Unless you’re a walking lick, they get local PD to get you. Then take credit.
No, the greatest threat you will face when things get bad is.....gun owners.
A total self-made Judenrat (Waffenrat?) of volunteer ATF G Men who will drop a dime on you because you hurt their feelings somehow. Or jealousy. How often do you see people bringing up 922r? I ASSURE YOU your average forensics person doesn’t know or care if your FAL kit build you shot Jer’Corion Holmes with had the magic number of US parts or not. Just if the ballistics match.
Most police aren’t “gun guys” and even most “gun guys” aren’t even that knowledgeable. They know just enough to sound clever but not enough to matter. Do any of you honestly know why 922r is an issue? Or why there’s even a “sporting clause”. Or why ITAR is a big deal? Or better yet, do any of you know why 80% lowers are all of a sudden a threat?
You gotta be a mixture of industrious and autistic to actually want to do your own ill fit 80% lower. And trust me. If you bought a couple “fer puttin’ away heh heh”, THEY KNOW!!
Even if you mailed a money order with a fake name, used someone else’s address to porch pirate, and likewise used prepaid cards you got from Smokey Joe from Downlow to buy parts....THEY KNOW.
They just don’t have the man power. This was all planned and planned in degrees. Red Flag Laws, Parts Control, Rulings from the Cubicle, banning certain parts, declaring inanimate hunks of metal to be “a Machine Gun”, and now Covid.
You don’t realize how much you all lost last year, do you? Everything has been done online. Work from home. Zoom conference. They’ve had a year to track your habits, who you know, who they know, what you buy, what you don’t buy, etc etc etc. And all they had to do was sex up a case of the Flu.
And you know militia style redoubts would have worked 40 years ago but now....THEY KNOW.
Your average Chinaman is in a lot of ways more free than you are. He plots to the system. He enjoys an actual social security alongside homogeneity and he has leaders with balls and he lives in a country that gets things done.
Red Dawn 2024 will not be paratroopers descending from the sky. It will be guys threatening to close accounts, call debt, or basically reduce your credit.
I mean it’s very ignorantly American to think any one of you would be the leader of a ragtag band of boogie woogie bugle boys from Company B who fight hard and come out from behind.
TFW you realize America didn’t win the Revolutionary War as much as the British deemed it a military quagmire and hoped the Indigenous peoples would handle business.
YOUR COUNTRY IS A WHOREHOUSE! And you’re all nothing but Porters! You’re not even the Johns!
And the only thing you could possibly do is effect a fiduciary change rivaling that of Red China. Honestly the only country you got that MIGHT help you is India.
Heh....India. Good luck. I’m glad I only got 20 years left on my sentence on this godless rock. I feel bad for anybody turning 18 now. We didn’t leave you guys much to work with. Sorry about that.
That was really weird. Posted a response. Didn't show up for a full 5 minutes....posted it again and the second showed up before the first.....Hmm...
What’s the old saying? “There is no ‘list’ just a collection of names”.
They know you have guns. They know you most likely will lie about selling it all at a gunshow because “Household 6” told you to do so. They know you’re using apps to communicate. There is no such thing as “secure crypto” that you can download from the App or Play store. If you are savvy enough to be on the Deep/Dark/Alt Web they know that too. TOR was a Navy program after all and they’ve been doing Crypto longer than any branch. Second Smartest after Air Force.
They know how much you make. And they read all the forums.
You can make it not so easy for them. But not impossible. And even if you are a regular Dade Murphy. A veritable Henry Dorsett Case, you still have an adult life starting from age 18. Licenses. Property. Vehicles. Leases. Loans.
But above all else, people who know you. You see, it’s not the ATF Brute Squad. The ATF are total jokes as police. They were always Treasury enforcement. Not door kickers. Same with FBI. Unless you’re a walking lick, they get local PD to get you. Then take credit.
No, the greatest threat you will face when things get bad is.....gun owners.
A total self-made Judenrat (Waffenrat?) of volunteer ATF G Men who will drop a dime on you because you hurt their feelings somehow. Or jealousy. How often do you see people bringing up 922r? I ASSURE YOU your average forensics person doesn’t know or care if your FAL kit build you shot Jer’Corion Holmes with had the magic number of US parts or not. Just if the ballistics match.
Most police aren’t “gun guys” and even most “gun guys” aren’t even that knowledgeable. They know just enough to sound clever but not enough to matter. Do any of you honestly know why 922r is an issue? Or why there’s even a “sporting clause”. Or why ITAR is a big deal? Or better yet, do any of you know why 80% lowers are all of a sudden a threat?
You gotta be a mixture of industrious and autistic to actually want to do your own ill fit 80% lower. And trust me. If you bought a couple “fer puttin’ away heh heh”, THEY KNOW!!
Even if you mailed a money order with a fake name, used someone else’s address to porch pirate, and likewise used prepaid cards you got from Smokey Joe from Downlow to buy parts....THEY KNOW.
They just don’t have the man power. This was all planned and planned in degrees. Red Flag Laws, Parts Control, Rulings from the Cubicle, banning certain parts, declaring inanimate hunks of metal to be “a Machine Gun”, and now Covid.
You don’t realize how much you all lost last year, do you? Everything has been done online. Work from home. Zoom conference. They’ve had a year to track your habits, who you know, who they know, what you buy, what you don’t buy, etc etc etc. And all they had to do was sex up a case of the Flu.
And you know militia style redoubts would have worked 40 years ago but now....THEY KNOW.
Your average Chinaman is in a lot of ways more free than you are. He plots to the system. He enjoys an actual social security alongside homogeneity and he has leaders with balls and he lives in a country that gets things done.
Red Dawn 2024 will not be paratroopers descending from the sky. It will be guys threatening to close accounts, call debt, or basically reduce your credit.
I mean it’s very ignorantly American to think any one of you would be the leader of a ragtag band of boogie woogie bugle boys from Company B who fight hard and come out from behind.
TFW you realize America didn’t win the Revolutionary War as much as the British deemed it a military quagmire and hoped the Indigenous peoples would handle business.
YOUR COUNTRY IS A WHOREHOUSE! And you’re all nothing but Porters! You’re not even the Johns!
And the only thing you could possibly do is effect a fiduciary change rivaling that of Red China. Honestly the only country you got that MIGHT help you is India.
Heh....India. Good luck. I’m glad I only got 20 years left on my sentence on this godless rock. I feel bad for anybody turning 18 now. We didn’t leave you guys much to work with. Sorry about that.
Dayum.....and people say I'M a DOOM AND GLOOMER.......but, you ain't wrong.
Reality sucks, that's why so many refuse to SEE IT!
Dayum.....and people say I'M a DOOM AND GLOOMER.......but, you ain't wrong.
Reality sucks, that's why so many refuse to SEE IT! I obey the Tv , I do what the Tv tells me to do and think what the Tv tells me to think. I am a happy drone. We don't need evil guns, as the government is our friend and it is here to protect us.
I obey the Tv , I do what the Tv tells me to do and think what the Tv tells me to think. I am a happy drone. We don't need evil guns, as the government is our friend and it is here to protect us.
Good Citizen!
Pay your taxes. Consume. Die young. Obey.
So the House passed it, big deal.
I don't see them getting 60 votes in the Senate. Will Joe Manchin of WV or Jon Tester of Montana vote for gun registration? I don't think so.
So the marxist drop down to 48 votes or maybe even less for it. Will 12 or more Republicans cross the line?
So the House passed it, big deal.
I don't see them getting 60 votes in the Senate. Will Joe Manchin of WV or Jon Tester of Montana vote for gun registration? I don't think so.
So the marxist drop down to 48 votes or maybe even less for it. Will 12 or more Republicans cross the line?
The Filibuster hangs by a thread. It stands in the way of EVERYTHING they need for permanent control- Legalizing 30 million new Democrats, Gun Control, Green New Deal, Federalization of Voting.......Does anyone really think that what is essentially a procedural gentlemans "agreement"- because my copy of the Constitution has been checked MANY TIMES and the word Filibuster does not appear therein, is going to stop them? You have more faith in Marxists than I do.
Mass non compliance is as easy as voluntary mass compliance. Just depends on which side you choose to empower.
ChattanoogaPhil
03-12-21, 12:08
Registry of gun owners?
I don't like it but I'm already on government lists of gun owners. I'm in the NFA database. Tennessee Department of Homeland Security has my name in their database (carry permit). I've purchased quite a few firearms over the past forty years from FFLs that have gone out of business and turned their books over to the ATF for digitizing. Hell, this post will likely be in the NSA database before the end of day. More lists?
Quote Originally Posted by lowprone View Post
Illegitimate governments have consequences....................................................................................................................................................................
Before you go Arfcom on us. Understand this....................................................................................................................................................................
Bullshit , I don't care how they went about it, it is a illegitimate government/administration, as in stolen, that the craven rino/never Trumper/ Republicrats
are terrified of mentioning this does not change the fact that it is illegitimate.
Registry of gun owners?
I don't like it but I'm already on government lists of gun owners. I'm in the NFA database. Tennessee Department of Homeland Security has my name in their database (carry permit). I've purchased quite a few firearms over the past forty years from FFLs that have gone out of business and turned their books over to the ATF for digitizing. Hell, this post will likely be in the NSA database before the end of day. More lists?
This is true, as is the ability to create a list based on 4473s, regardless of what a bureaucratic nightmare that would be. The problem for the government would be the people who have guns via face-to-face/private sales. I know people who have an arsenal, and not a single gun is linked to them on a 4473 or on paper.
A nationwide gun list/registry would be almost as difficult as a gun confiscation (but a lot less bloody).
Quote Originally Posted by lowprone View Post
Illegitimate governments have consequences....................................................................................................................................................................
Before you go Arfcom on us. Understand this....................................................................................................................................................................
Bullshit , I don't care how they went about it, it is a illegitimate government/administration, as in stolen, that the craven rino/never Trumper/ Republicrats
are terrified of mentioning this does not change the fact that it is illegitimate.
Dear friend, you don’t seem to realize the total scope. It really wasn’t stolen. The fact that it wasn’t stolen should give you an overwhelming sense of dread and terror.
An illegitimate government is one set upon shaky ground. No. You’re in the minority now. You’re a citizen in exile.
The people who have replaced you will never have the values you possess. You can be angry. You can be frustrated. You can be afraid. You can feel betrayed.
But here you sit. And it’s not going away. And it’s getting worse.
It all started back in 1965 when we decided we didn’t value skilled, educated, English speaking Europeans as immigrants.
It’s too late now... To shoot them all in the head. The time to have done that would have been at the beginning. They’ve overrun us. They have overrun us, you know. We’re in the minority now. Something like 212:1 by my calculations.
Is there food?
The Filibuster hangs by a thread. It stands in the way of EVERYTHING they need for permanent control- Legalizing 30 million new Democrats, Gun Control, Green New Deal, Federalization of Voting.......Does anyone really think that what is essentially a procedural gentlemans "agreement"- because my copy of the Constitution has been checked MANY TIMES and the word Filibuster does not appear therein, is going to stop them? You have more faith in Marxists than I do.
I have ZERO faith in Marxist other than to try to murder me or make me a slave.
I have little to no faith in a gentleman's agreement know as Filibuster.
I do have 100% faith in the lust of a Senator to keep his or hers ass in that chair. 5,000,000 new gun owners and the rest of us are powerful if we send emails to our Senators that they will not have our support if they vote for any anti gun bill. Will this work on Senators from hard blue States no, but it should keep enough votes from red or purple states on our side.
But let's say I am wrong.
I believe my right to be armed is a right from G-D. In Orthodox Judaism we are taught that if we know someone is coming to murder us or any innocent person, we are commanded by G-D to ambush the person and to kill them.
So no I will not register my guns. I will figure out how to scam the system if I need a firearms identity card to buy ammo, no worries bolt action 5.56 and 7.62 Nato get bought. But sir why are you buying a 1000 rounds a month? I was a sniper I like to keep my skills up.
If 97% of gun owners raise the middle finger to the government what are they going to do?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-12-21, 12:50
Why aren’t “you” winning? Wow. You say “before you go barfcom, understand this”
Ok, then understand this:
You skipped barfcom and landed on Full Retard Park Place.
Silly Wabbit, Trix are for kids.
Oh and I rarely find wisdom when it’s saturated in arrogance. But great job pointing the finger at the demographic you love hate. Btw, bitterness Is literally dripping from that post.
Raise your hand if you were motivated by that little speech.
Firefly is right though....
I have ZERO faith in Marxist other than to try to murder me or make me a slave.
I have little to no faith in a gentleman's agreement know as Filibuster.
I do have 100% faith in the lust of a Senator to keep his or hers ass in that chair. 5,000,000 new gun owners and the rest of us are powerful if we send emails to our Senators that they will not have our support if they vote for any anti gun bill. Will this work on Senators from hard blue States no, but it should keep enough votes from red or purple states on our side.
But let's say I am wrong.
I believe my right to be armed is a right from G-D. In Orthodox Judaism we are taught that if we know someone is coming to murder us or any innocent person, we are commanded by G-D to ambush the person and to kill them.
So no I will not register my guns. I will figure out how to scam the system if I need a firearms identity card to buy ammo, no worries bolt action 5.56 and 7.62 Nato get bought. But sir why are you buying a 1000 rounds a month? I was a sniper I like to keep my skills up.
If 97% of gun owners raise the middle finger to the government what are they going to do?
From your keyboard to 50% of gun owners minds and our problem solves itself!
Dear friend, you don’t seem to realize the total scope. It really wasn’t stolen. The fact that it wasn’t stolen should give you an overwhelming sense of dread and terror.
An illegitimate government is one set upon shaky ground. No. You’re in the minority now. You’re a citizen in exile.
The people who have replaced you will never have the values you possess. You can be angry. You can be frustrated. You can be afraid. You can feel betrayed.
But here you sit. And it’s not going away. And it’s getting worse.
It all started back in 1965 when we decided we didn’t value skilled, educated, English speaking Europeans as immigrants.
It’s too late now... To shoot them all in the head. The time to have done that would have been at the beginning. They’ve overrun us. They have overrun us, you know. We’re in the minority now. Something like 212:1 by my calculations.
Is there food?
Why yes, yes it was. And so was your state's "second chance" on January 5th. That gap-toofed hippo helped that along.
While "we" may not be technically a majority, it is an Electoral College who elects the POTUS, not a mathematical majority. That has (for better or worse) put an "R" in the White House in 2000 and again in 2016. But now the Left has learned to play the Electoral College game.....no need for massive, nationwide voter fraud. Just some good old fashioned targeted cheating, allowed for and enabled by the ChiCom Virus of course.
Can't cheat for a Republican POTUS candidate in Kali, they're too far gone numbers-wise; on the flip side, Trump won TN by 23 points, so Dems have to skip that one. No, pick a few "battleground states" like MI, WI, PA, NV, AZ, and (whoda thunk it) GA. Concentrate your cheating-ass efforts there.
Having lived through it as an adult, as well as numerous other elections in my lifetime, no one will EVER convince me shenanigans didn't get Sleepy Joe "elected". Therefore the whole damn administration, and whatever comes out of it, is ILLEGITIMATE.
My state never had a second chance. I’m on record prior to Jan 5th as saying it was turning. My only hope at that time was that the blacks would reject Ossoff. This was not to be.
You do realize that GA being blue is not at all an anomaly. Sonny Perdue was the first Republican in some years. The state went thoroughly for Clinton in the 92. By a healthy margin.
A lot of unethical things occurred but GA has gotten increasingly more Black, more carpetbagger, and the urban areas more and more socialist. I mean, Atlanta itself has an extraordinarily high homosexual population. Savannah coming second. A lot of Hollywood, Tech, and Banking is here. Cosco is another.
I feel like some of you seriously think Georgia is some good ol boy place full of Rebel flags and David Allen Coe blaring. No. The rich areas are very rich. The poor areas are very poor. There IS a healthy gun culture here, but it has never been politically conservative in the strictest sense. Dixiecrat at best. Blue Dog at its mode. And sickeningly Leftist at its worst.
A Red Republican Georgia was not sustainable. Not long term. They simply played the game and won. They got the college kids and blacks out in force.
This state is the closest you will get to an American Post-Apartheid South Africa and you’re angry because it didn’t stay Republican? Very curious indeed. If you remember your 2000 Election, you will know that Dubya had a close run here too.
And here’s my deal, calling it “illegitimate” doesn’t change the fact that they are in power.
Put some Tao into your thoughtpath. What is, simply is. A is A.
What can you do today and what can you do tomorrow? Those are the real questions
My state never had a second chance. I’m on record prior to Jan 5th as saying it was turning. My only hope at that time was that the blacks would reject Ossoff. This was not to be.
You do realize that GA being blue is not at all an anomaly. Sonny Perdue was the first Republican in some years. The state went thoroughly for Clinton in the 92. By a healthy margin.
A lot of unethical things occurred but GA has gotten increasingly more Black, more carpetbagger, and the urban areas more and more socialist. I mean, Atlanta itself has an extraordinarily high homosexual population. Savannah coming second. A lot of Hollywood, Tech, and Banking is here. Cosco is another.
I feel like some of you seriously think Georgia is some good ol boy place full of Rebel flags and David Allen Coe blaring. No. The rich areas are very rich. The poor areas are very poor. There IS a healthy gun culture here, but it has never been politically conservative in the strictest sense. Dixiecrat at best. Blue Dog at its mode. And sickeningly Leftist at its worst.
A Red Republican Georgia was not sustainable. Not long term. They simply played the game and won. They got the college kids and blacks out in force.
This state is the closest you will get to an American Post-Apartheid South Africa and you’re angry because it didn’t stay Republican? Very curious indeed. If you remember your 2000 Election, you will know that Dubya had a close run here too.
And here’s my deal, calling it “illegitimate” doesn’t change the fact that they are in power. This is true, reality is what it is.
Put some Tao into your thoughtpath. What is, simply is. A is A.
What can you do today and what can you do tomorrow? Those are the real questions
TN went for Clinton back in the 90's and had a Democrat governor (Bredesen) from 2003-2011. Since 2000 they've gone for Republican POTUS candidates though. Strange dichotomy, especially given that Bredesen isn't even from TN, he's originally from MI. Nonetheless, I've always seen GA as a "red" state; even "Dixiecrats" were conservative. Same with NC, which has fallen a few times in recent elections.
TN certainly has Libtard strongholds, like any other state does: Nashville, Memphrica, Chattanooga, Knoxville to a large degree. But so far it seems like the blue tide favors overrunning areas in the East and attempting to in Texas. The hills and hollers of TN haven't found Lefty affection [yet].
It’s too late now... To shoot them all in the head. The time to have done that would have been at the beginning. They’ve overrun us. They have overrun us, you know. We’re in the minority now. Something like 212:1 by my calculations.
Is there food?
I see what you did there...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210312/d50072fe3655429d9c25d6db7b94ad6f.jpg
TN went for Clinton back in the 90's and had a Democrat governor (Bredesen) from 2003-2011. Since 2000 they've gone for Republican POTUS candidates though. Strange dichotomy, especially given that Bredesen isn't even from TN, he's originally from MI. Nonetheless, I've always seen GA as a "red" state; even "Dixiecrats" were conservative. Same with NC, which has fallen a few times in recent elections.
TN certainly has Libtard strongholds, like any other state does: Nashville, Memphrica, Chattanooga, Knoxville to a large degree. But so far it seems like the blue tide favors overrunning areas in the East and attempting to in Texas. The hills and hollers of TN haven't found Lefty affection [yet].
Concur about NC. The state GOP is strong, we usually vote for republican presidents, but the urban centers (largely due to emigration) are solidly blue. The rural parts, still mostly republican.
We have 20 rinos in the Senate with 6 who have already stated that they are not seeking re-election. Cocaine Mitch will likely not seek election so there is 7. Not a stretch to think that this group of traitors would throw in with the marxists and have 60 or more votes to pass. I still think that the Senate could change the rules and get rid of the filibuster to pass gun control.
This seems rather unambitious, considering the power they now possess. While that previous abortion of theirs didn't have a snowball's chance, this is just downright pathetic, and just goes to show that the people writing these things don't have any concept of the existing laws beyond what they've seen in the media. They're obviously operating off of media buzzwords like gunshow loophole and such. Had they any inkling of the issues at hand, they could have easily drafted something that would fulfill their promises to their constituents while still gaining bipartisan support.
For example, they could have written a bill that would make all centerfire semiautomatics title II firearms, along with free registration of anything manufactured prior to the effective date of the bill. And to make that technically feasible, they could have abbreviated the NFA background check procedures to be identical to the process used for title I transfers. That solves basically every other issue. High cap mags, ammo, licensing, etc. because all the scary dangerous guns themselves would be registered to vetted law abiding people.
Diamondback
03-12-21, 19:41
So the House passed it, big deal.
I don't see them getting 60 votes in the Senate. Will Joe Manchin of WV or Jon Tester of Montana vote for gun registration? I don't think so.
So the marxist drop down to 48 votes or maybe even less for it. Will 12 or more Republicans cross the line?
They don't even need crossovers, all they need is for four R's to not make the vote with mysterious "family emergencies" or "popped positive for Chicom Lung AIDS" or any number of other things... we know these neofascists would think nothing of murder in pursuit of their goals.
It really makes no difference what we do, 46 Republicrats retired just prior to the 2018 Mid Terms
essentially handing the Demoncrats the House on a silver tray, allowing this fiasco to happen.
Never forget who stabbed the Republic in the back.
I do understand what you’re saying. But to think names on NICS checks can’t be instantly accessed is foolish. While there may not be a “list” or”registry,” that information is easily accessible. This isn’t a “theoretical boogieman”.
But hey, go ahead and trust that the FBI is on the up and up and of highest moral character. The ATF has never done shady stuff, either.
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I have never said just trust the FBI or ATF, in fact I said quite the opposite. If you can actually catch ATF doing data downloads (and they have caught them before) or if you catch anyone in the NICS system retaining information, you can really burn their ass hard.
There are real world consequences to that shit and it's not like "Fast and Furious" where they can say "well that went wrong" and there is no real world oversight. The things I listed are where they are really and truly vulnerable and people lose jobs and sometimes are even prosecuted.
Those are THEIR weak links, it is what bears watching.
About 10 years ago some compliance inspectors were at a big box store and rather than just do selective audits of their 4473s they were lazy enough to download ALL the digital files and heads rolled all over that office and ass beatings went way up the food chain.
But if you are too busy chasing THIS when it's actually THAT, nothing actually happens.
PracticalRifleman
03-12-21, 23:01
I have never said just trust the FBI or ATF, in fact I said quite the opposite. If you can actually catch ATF doing data downloads (and they have caught them before) or if you catch anyone in the NICS system retaining information, you can really burn their ass hard.
There are real world consequences to that shit and it's not like "Fast and Furious" where they can say "well that went wrong" and there is no real world oversight. The things I listed are where they are really and truly vulnerable and people lose jobs and sometimes are even prosecuted.
Those are THEIR weak links, it is what bears watching.
About 10 years ago some compliance inspectors were at a big box store and rather than just do selective audits of their 4473s they were lazy enough to download ALL the digital files and heads rolled all over that office and ass beatings went way up the food chain.
But if you are too busy chasing THIS when it's actually THAT, nothing actually happens.
Who says not to look at both?
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Who says not to look at both?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because 90% of gun owners are astonishingly uninformed about how things work and they chase mythical gun registration hysteria when real world data collection is happening right now by other means and they don't know the first thing about it.
If we could take all the effort devoted to protecting arm braces and focus it on something meaningful, we could get a LOT done. Pardon my frustration, but it's frustrating.
PracticalRifleman
03-13-21, 09:29
Because 90% of gun owners are astonishingly uninformed about how things work and they chase mythical gun registration hysteria when real world data collection is happening right now by other means and they don't know the first thing about it.
If we could take all the effort devoted to protecting arm braces and focus it on something meaningful, we could get a LOT done. Pardon my frustration, but it's frustrating.
It may be, but this bill, were it to pass is disturbing. It just makes it easier to do shady crap like you’re referencing.
Back in the days of paper 4473s, a local gunsmith had an interesting situation. A black lesbian female ATF agent came in to “inspect his books”. She demanded to take all his 4473s to make copies and wanted to copy his books.
She nearly had him bullied into it. I happened to be there holding a rifle I was having him work on for me. He had insisted she couldn’t do that and his books weren’t able to leave the premises without a warrant.
Finally, I spoke up in his defense and explained to her she was violating the law and asked her name and supervisors name. He then got frustrated, called her some non-PC slurs and told her to get out before he had to defend his life and property with the 1911 he had just pulled from under the counter.
I don’t think they ever showed up again. Though, this was a different day and time. This stuff does happen every day. Many dealers are just afraid to stand up for themselves these days. The more we have “universal” checks and the more we rely on electronics, the more it will happen.
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I have never said just trust the FBI or ATF, in fact I said quite the opposite. If you can actually catch ATF doing data downloads (and they have caught them before) or if you catch anyone in the NICS system retaining information, you can really burn their ass hard.
There are real world consequences to that shit and it's not like "Fast and Furious" where they can say "well that went wrong" and there is no real world oversight. The things I listed are where they are really and truly vulnerable and people lose jobs and sometimes are even prosecuted.
Those are THEIR weak links, it is what bears watching.
About 10 years ago some compliance inspectors were at a big box store and rather than just do selective audits of their 4473s they were lazy enough to download ALL the digital files and heads rolled all over that office and ass beatings went way up the food chain.
But if you are too busy chasing THIS when it's actually THAT, nothing actually happens.
Dude, I lived in Prescott at the time of "fast and furious". They covered that up and lied their asses off. ATF/DOJ committed felony acts to try to bust gun dealers in order to gin up anti gun support.
Republicans in the House and Senate knew it. They rolled over and played dead. They let the real scandal drop and played politics with the fringe details. Republican Senators told the shop owners to STFU and go away.
I see what you did there...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210312/d50072fe3655429d9c25d6db7b94ad6f.jpg
I appreciate a fellow man of culture
gunnerblue
03-13-21, 13:10
It may be, but this bill, were it to pass is disturbing. It just makes it easier to do shady crap like you’re referencing.
Back in the days of paper 4473s, a local gunsmith had an interesting situation. A black lesbian female ATF agent came in to “inspect his books”. She demanded to take all his 4473s to make copies and wanted to copy his books.
She nearly had him bullied into it. I happened to be there holding a rifle I was having him work on for me. He had insisted she couldn’t do that and his books weren’t able to leave the premises without a warrant.
Finally, I spoke up in his defense and explained to her she was violating the law and asked her name and supervisors name. He then got frustrated, called her some non-PC slurs and told her to get out before he had to defend his life and property with the 1911 he had just pulled from under the counter.
I don’t think they ever showed up again. Though, this was a different day and time. This stuff does happen every day. Many dealers are just afraid to stand up for themselves these days. The more we have “universal” checks and the more we rely on electronics, the more it will happen.
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What does being Black, lesbian and female have to do with anything?
PracticalRifleman
03-13-21, 13:12
What does being Black, lesbian and female have to do with anything?
Because he called her some slurs. And she was, presumably, anti-gun per statistics. She was intimidating him and breaking the law.
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SomeOtherGuy
03-14-21, 20:09
What does being Black, lesbian and female have to do with anything?
Up through about 2017 that was a royal flush for winning intersectional feminism poker.
It may be, but this bill, were it to pass is disturbing.
Yes, the BILL itself is a problem, bears watching and requires action.
But understand the bill for what it is and is not. That is all I'm saying. It's not registration, it's not confiscation or anything else. It's universal background checks and we must oppose it for all the reasons noted.
Averageman
03-15-21, 10:25
Well they will probably show up to arrest me for not being vaccinated for COVID anyway, we might as well get the show on the road.
I'm old, I have little to lose, so lets not dawdle.
WickedWillis
03-15-21, 10:34
People living in Eastern Washington drive to Idaho frequently to hit gun shows, and do private sales to avoid the bill WA passed a few years back. These sound very similar tbh.
Yes, the BILL itself is a problem, bears watching and requires action.
But understand the bill for what it is and is not. That is all I'm saying. It's not registration, it's not confiscation or anything else. It's universal background checks and we must oppose it for all the reasons noted.
We've had universal background checks in New Mexico for a year or so and from what I am seeing, everyone is ignoring it. Still a brisk market in face to face gun sales, but less of dealings with people you don't know. I am thinking the Federal Law is a trial balloon to see how many RINOs are on board, and a predictor for future laws with teeth.
PracticalRifleman
03-15-21, 13:43
Remember, be re-educated or die:
https://youtu.be/VlN2t0oERHk
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UBC is registration going forward, at least for stuff sold on 4473's. If it passed tomorrow and you bought a gun from a dealer next month then if "they" came a knockin' you'd better have that gun unless you have proof of where it went, i.e. another background check.
It is factually incorrect to say the US is a democracy. We need to stop referring to it as one.
Im not insulted.
Andy
What is it then? An Oligarchy? A Kleptocracy? A Technocracy? Or is it a combination of all three? I ask because when 51% or more of the country doesn't give a rat's ass about the Constitution and activist elected officials and appointed judges are wiping their asses with it with impunity, we are no longer a constitutional republic. :mad:
As for the rest of it, I won't comply if its passed. I'll show up to a ftf with a gun or cash and if I'm not comfortable with the deal, I'll walk same as I'd do today. I won't drive one extra mile or wait one minute in line to pay a private 3rd party to exercise my rights.
Not that it matters much. I'm less than a decade away from the ss/medicare gravy train. I'm in a solid red state that won't comply either. What that really means is I'm the gun-guy equivalent of a casemate on the Maginot Line. I'll sit in my redoubt while the war goes around me. By the time I'm impacted, the war will be over and likely so will I.
I have no progeny to worry about, so at least that isn't something I have to worry over.
Either way it’s less liberty for the common man and more control for the overlords.
ViniVidivici
03-15-21, 17:34
What is it then? An Oligarchy? A Kleptocracy? A Technocracy? Or is it a combination of all three? I ask because when 51% or more of the country doesn't give a rat's ass about the Constitution and activist elected officials and appointed judges are wiping their asses with it with impunity, we are no longer a constitutional republic. :mad:
As for the rest of it, I won't comply if its passed. I'll show up to a ftf with a gun or cash and if I'm not comfortable with the deal, I'll walk same as I'd do today. I won't drive one extra mile or wait one minute in line to pay a private 3rd party to exercise my rights.
Not that it matters much. I'm less than a decade away from the ss/medicare gravy train. I'm in a solid red state that won't comply either. What that really means is I'm the gun-guy equivalent of a casemate on the Maginot Line. I'll sit in my redoubt while the war goes around me. By the time I'm impacted, the war will be over and likely so will I.
I have no progeny to worry about, so at least that isn't something I have to worry over.
It's set up to be a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. Folks get that wrong alot.
At the moment, it IS an oligarchy, as the almost year-long left-wing insurrection has culminated in a soft coup (fraudulent, stolen election), which has resulted in a small Constitution-hating group taking charge, illegitimately.
So yes, at the moment, oligarchy. We will see what the future holds.
It's set up to be a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. Folks get that wrong alot.
At the moment, it IS an oligarchy, as the almost year-long left-wing insurrection has culminated in a soft coup (fraudulent, stolen election), which has resulted in a small Constitution-hating group taking charge, illegitimately.
So yes, at the moment, oligarchy. We will see what the future holds.
Why yes, I'm on board with that train of thought!
Any updates on where this bill going? Any scuttlebutt about who's going to support it in the senate?
Now we've got the guy shooting up prostitutes in Atlanta; it'll be Exhibit A for why we need Universal Background Checks.
Now we've got the guy shooting up prostitutes in Atlanta; it'll be Exhibit A for why we need Universal Background Checks.
Unhappy ending...
Now we've got the guy shooting up prostitutes in Atlanta; it'll be Exhibit A for why we need Universal Background Checks.
Yeah, F that. Funny how felons who try to buy a gun are NEVER prosecuted when they bounce bgc. Neither are minority straw buyers that pass guns to gang bangers. But yeah, we need to harass the decent law abiding folks a lot more.
Dirt bags are gonna do bad shit, that's why we make rope. Commies gonna do commie shit that's why I have guns. Come get em, bring uncle joe.
Yeah, F that. Funny how felons who try to buy a gun are NEVER prosecuted when they bounce bgc. Neither are minority straw buyers that pass guns to gang bangers. But yeah, we need to harass the decent law abiding folks a lot more.
Dirt bags are gonna do bad shit, that's why we make rope. Commies gonna do commie shit that's why I have guns. Come get em, bring uncle joe.
Well if they actually use the powers that they already have to stop the bad guys from getting guns, then they wouldn't have an excuse anymore to take yet more power.
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