View Full Version : The most cringeworthy LE shooting you will ever see.
Never seen anything quite like this. if you're an LEO, warning, your head may explode. Every time she is in that car with her back turned, rummaging around, I cringe. Officer was under estimating/over confident there, likely due to her being a women is my guess. He's given way too much leeway on that stop, and non LE don't understand that can cost lives, either the LEO or the person they stopped. Two, I have seen some large LEOs in my day, never see one that was morbidly obese like that. Doing my best not to armchair quarterback this one, not being LE, but wow. PS, I'm sure a version of the vid exists without commentary, but I generally like his POV on topics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB5mP7w8QqA
I wonder how many millions the town will give the victim before the officers trial.
That officer is damn lucky to be alive. He let her run the scene from start to finish.
I sure do love color commentary by a battle hardened ghetto warrior 11 month veteran (including academy and FTO time) of the streets
Officer Dum Dum should have fired to slide lock. Should have stalled. If you commit, you commit with violence of action.
Black folks please black folks understand that getting on your phone and saying “oh naw I aint did nuffin wrong” does not magically make the police go away.
If you’re caught, you’re caught. You’ll be out of jail before Officer finishes his shift I promise you. Running, fighting, and trying to “be authentic” gets you killed.
We can discuss our favorite Babylonion/Jewish/Chinese/Zoroastrian Fanfiction all day but chances are there’s no afterlife and with how mind numbingly Liberal the Justice system is; you’ll get out.
It’s not being an Uncle Tom to just take your arrest with some dignity instead of living up to the stereotypes
Inkslinger
03-20-21, 15:16
Being morbidity obese was probably the only thing that saved his life. Her little yeet cannon probably didn’t provide enough penetration to get to any vital organs.
Averageman
03-20-21, 15:31
I don't understand it.
I'm Military, not Law enforcement but I would have had her sitting on the curb without her bag or phone as soon as She got out.
Honestly, getting back in the car, WTF?
I think the Cop was dangerously apprehensive, almost afraid. There was no Command Presence in him and he lost control immediacy.
Edit to add as an observation;
Do you think they frequented the same "all you can eat" buffet a time or two?
Averageman
03-20-21, 15:35
Being morbidity obese was probably the only thing that saved his life. Her little yeet cannon probably didn’t provide enough penetration to get to any vital organs.
Hit him right in the apatite, ...hopefully for him.
Being morbidity obese was probably the only thing that saved his life. Her little yeet cannon probably didn’t provide enough penetration to get to any vital organs.
I assume it was stopped by a vest. Maybe I'm wrong. Gotta look again.
john armond
03-20-21, 16:24
I assume it was stopped by a vest. Maybe I'm wrong. Gotta look again.
Report I saw said it either missed or went under the vest.
Reasonable to assume she sucked, but why did the interaction continue once it was determined the male he thought he was pulling over wasn't in the vehicle?
Averageman
03-20-21, 17:44
Reasonable to assume she sucked, but why did the interaction continue once it was determined the male he thought he was pulling over wasn't in the vehicle?
Known dealer, he's got warrants, hell I would toss the car if my Mom was driving.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-20-21, 18:14
Reasonable to assume she sucked, but why did the interaction continue once it was determined the male he thought he was pulling over wasn't in the vehicle?
Can they sieze the car since the owner has warrants?
If she followed orders and not consented to the search, I think she could have walked (or driven) away. She panicked and started blabbing and acting goofy and screwed her self.
The boyfriend must not be much of a dealer, if that was his girlfriend. YIKES. Not a great commercial for the thug lifestyle.
Can they sieze the car since the owner has warrants?
If she followed orders and not consented to the search, I think she could have walked (or driven) away. She panicked and started blabbing and acting goofy and screwed her self.
The boyfriend must not be much of a dealer, if that was his girlfriend. YIKES. Not a great commercial for the thug lifestyle.
Possibly, but she claimed the car was hers. Could have been BS and it is still owned by him or it could have been sold.
If there was something in the footage about a dating relationship I missed it, but I haven't read anything other than a mention she hadn't seen him in awhile which I did catch in the video.
Reasonable to assume she sucked, but why did the interaction continue once it was determined the male he thought he was pulling over wasn't in the vehicle?
Smelled weed, asked about weed, she admitted to weed. At that point he is conducting an investigation.
But he should have parked her on a curb and waited for backup. He wasn't able to control her and conduct an investigation at the same time and it got him shot. You have to say shit like "I just need you to have a seat on the curb while we get this sorted out."
Is there a reason he didn't park right behind her and block her car?
He lost control of the situation pretty quick.
Hope he's ok
Smelled weed, asked about weed, she admitted to weed. At that point he is conducting an investigation.
Never saw that part on the video including one with someone with Nashville metro narrating it.
Never saw that part on the video including one with someone with Nashville metro narrating it.
I'm assuming the details mentioned by the narrator are accurate.
Is there a reason he didn't park right behind her and block her car?
He lost control of the situation pretty quick.
Hope he's ok
Probably attempting to avoid being overly aggressive given the current climate. It's a fine line to walk, in this case being blocked in would have probably escalated the same eventuality and might have just been a flat out ambush that might have proved fatal.
He needed to separate her from her car (and the contents of her car) and keep her chilled out until backup arrived. He made some solid attempts to keep things calm like letting her call her mom to make arrangements to pick her up (in her mind) because he probably indicated they might have to tow the car.
One common theme I've seen in a LOT of these kinds of shootings is the officer didn't have a bad feeling or really believe they were in serious danger until it was already well under way. The commentator criticized his slow draw but I believe he actually responded to the lethal force threat with acceptable speed (although not anything close to competition shooters) and put shots on target reasonably well for having just been hit himself.
Once he went down he got information on the radio effectively and then probably went into "OMFG I'm gonna die" mode. Seems like he tried to check on the status of the shooter and then was unable to do anything beyond that point. He is damn lucky he didn't get run over either accidentally or intentionally.
Not the worst I've seen, doesn't even come close to the 1986 Miami shootout in terms of engagement errors, but still bad enough that it will become a known training video for some time.
I wish I could have a PBS showed called "LE Encounters and You" which they would show in all public schools. Topics would be:
1. How to not get arrested, especially if you haven't done anything wrong.
2. How to not get arrested, even if you have done something wrong.
3. How to get arrested, if it's obvious you are going to be arrested, especially if you haven't done anything wrong.
4. How to get arrested, if it's obvious you are going to be arrested, especially if you have done something wrong.
5. How to NOT get shot by the police no matter what you have or haven't done wrong.
I just need some 15 minute spots and some catchy "schoolhouse rock" lyrics.
So far Chris Rock has done the most effective PSAs on the subject.
I'm assuming the details mentioned by the narrator are accurate.
If Tatum's comment on that part of the interaction is correct it is either a lucky guess or he has viewed footage that got clipped out of the release by Nashville.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9C26eu6F2I
I'm assuming the details mentioned by the narrator are accurate.
Probably attempting to avoid being overly aggressive given the current climate. It's a fine line to walk, in this case being blocked in would have probably escalated the same eventuality and might have just been a flat out ambush that might have proved fatal.
He needed to separate her from her car (and the contents of her car) and keep her chilled out until backup arrived. He made some solid attempts to keep things calm like letting her call her mom to make arrangements to pick her up (in her mind) because he probably indicated they might have to tow the car.
One common theme I've seen in a LOT of these kinds of shootings is the officer didn't have a bad feeling or really believe they were in serious danger until it was already well under way. The commentator criticized his slow draw but I believe he actually responded to the lethal force threat with acceptable speed (although not anything close to competition shooters) and put shots on target reasonably well for having just been hit himself.
Once he went down he got information on the radio effectively and then probably went into "OMFG I'm gonna die" mode. Seems like he tried to check on the status of the shooter and then was unable to do anything beyond that point. He is damn lucky he didn't get run over either accidentally or intentionally.
Not the worst I've seen, doesn't even come close to the 1986 Miami shootout in terms of engagement errors, but still bad enough that it will become a known training video for some time.
I wish I could have a PBS showed called "LE Encounters and You" which they would show in all public schools. Topics would be:
1. How to not get arrested, especially if you haven't done anything wrong.
2. How to not get arrested, even if you have done something wrong.
3. How to get arrested, if it's obvious you are going to be arrested, especially if you haven't done anything wrong.
4. How to get arrested, if it's obvious you are going to be arrested, especially if you have done something wrong.
5. How to NOT get shot by the police no matter what you have or haven't done wrong.
I just need some 15 minute spots and some catchy "schoolhouse rock" lyrics.
So far Chris Rock has done the most effective PSAs on the subject.
All seems reasonable. It just seems to me the copper was a bit lax in controlling the situation with all the lady's hands disappearing here and there. Just watching it on a video was making me nervous. I just thought if he knew going in that the car might contain a 5 warrants bad guy that he would block that car some. But, like you said, the times and the possible fallout might have held him back a bit.
The how not to get arrested would have surely help a lot of naïve or tough guy youth.
All seems reasonable. It just seems to me the copper was a bit lax in controlling the situation with all the lady's hands disappearing here and there. Just watching it on a video was making me nervous. I just thought if he knew going in that the car might contain a 5 warrants bad guy that he would block that car some. But, like you said, the times and the possible fallout might have held him back a bit.
The how not to get arrested would have surely help a lot of naïve or tough guy youth.
Yeah, during the contact, I think everyone agrees he completely failed to control the subject and the situation...and it got him shot.
Pretty sure 99% of all LE today (including black LEOs) are being extra sensitive with the black community in an effort to deescalate from their side, but you can be respectful and effective at the same time. Sometimes it calls for some mild bullshitting but that's better than playing "everyone get's shot because nobody is in control."
There are the ones everybody knows are going to be dangerous so they are at Defcon 2 when they approach the car and the occupants know that "fun time" is over and it's now serious business. It's the ones where somebody is being mostly calm and talking to their mother two minutes before they pull a gun and shoot you that are the scary ones.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-21-21, 02:06
It’s a good thing a taser only takes one hand to operate so your other hand is free to hold your junk since both seem to be about as useful in getting people to comply.
I'm way too fat to consider being a cop and that dude has 100# on me. I'm not just going to hate on him for being fat, he also sucks at being a cop.
It’s a good thing a taser only takes one hand to operate so your other hand is free to hold your junk since both seem to be about as useful in getting people to comply.
An over reliance on tasers as a compliance weapon is part of the problem. As I've noted many times most LE agencies have been stripped of all of their impact weapons following the Rodney King incident and those that retain them are susceptible to the exact same problems under stress (training as a compliance weapon goes out the window and it becomes just another blunt force instrument). For reasons I don't fully understand they have moved away from pepper spray which in broad applications seemed to be even more effective than OCS.
I know there is always that oddball who feels almost no effect, but in this incident she was shooting and driving after being tased, I suspect she would have been less effective with a face full of pepper spray.
A big problem of course is that we as a nation not only tolerate but embrace our criminals. By nature we root for the underdog because once we were the underdog nation and the American mentality is one that appreciates someone who overcomes all their obstacles and prevails anyway through sheer talent or force of will. This is what makes claims of a "racist nation" so astonishing because we couldn't wait to embrace Jackie Robinson and make him a hero. We continue to do the same with all manner of athletes, celebrities and in some cases truly deserving academics.
We are willing to try and understand the cultural, economic and social factors that contribute to the worst criminals from gang bangers to drug dealers to murders and even pedophiles and serial killers. We elevate some to cult status and ignore their most heinous crimes while glorifying them in film.
And we give wide discretion to family and friends who claim "my baby did nothing wrong, didn't have to kill my baby" when in fact quite often it was very necessary to kill their baby.
But with the exception of true minorities of this nation, people who deeply embrace hatred and devote their entire existences to racial ideologies, we want the little guy to win if only because sometimes we might feel we are in a good place so now we are cheering on the other guy, especially if he doesn't look like a Vegas lock.
This is a big part of why cops are default bad guys, because we WANT everyone to evolve, make their life right and then move on and be successful. Hell even cops want them to overcome their own BS to a certain extent, if for no other reason than they won't have to keep chasing them down and arresting them over and over. And if a cop can find somebody in a bad situation and help them get back on track that is sometimes their career high and it's hardly white guilt, it is a feeling that they did something besides just keep catching them.
A big problem of course is that we as a nation not only tolerate but embrace our criminals. By nature we root for the underdog because once we were the underdog nation and the American mentality is one that appreciates someone who overcomes all their obstacles and prevails anyway through sheer talent or force of will. This is what makes claims of a "racist nation" so astonishing because we couldn't wait to embrace Jackie Robinson and make him a hero. We continue to do the same with all manner of athletes, celebrities and in some cases truly deserving academics.
We are willing to try and understand the cultural, economic and social factors that contribute to the worst criminals from gang bangers to drug dealers to murders and even pedophiles and serial killers. We elevate some to cult status and ignore their most heinous crimes while glorifying them in film.
In my case it started out by recognizing that the war on the 2nd Amendment and other freedoms I engage in are largely fueled by/justified with the war on drugs.
Later it was observing similarities to alcohol prohibition, which was again something questionable as to motives on how it came to be. Whatever benefits it produced(there is evidence cirrhosis and other alcohol related diseases decreased during prohibition) were more than outweighed by the negatives such as paving the way for the creation of super criminals and increasing .gov corruption.
ChattanoogaPhil
03-21-21, 08:01
Looks like she's been busy with drug charges and driving with revoked license since she was a teen. Latest arrest was for public indecency. 230lb pile of lard... barf.
https://www.tn.gov/content/dam/tn/tbi/documents/NikaHolbertTORIS3-12-21.pdf
Tasers are not fire and forget and people seem to mistake drive stunning for total prong engagement.
If you ever get bored, drive stun yourself somewhere. Only that part will hurt like hell. Every other part of your body has full capability.
People used to teach good old fashioned hand to hand or impact devices. Not to mention total commitment to a fight. No pattycake. No pussyfoot. You go hard, fast, and deliberate until they are cuffed and stuffed.
I don’t give a goddamn how black they are. We can worry about that later. This is how people get needlessly murdered.
She had no compunction with shooting like she did. These people will kill you. They don’t care.
I wonder how many millions the town will give the victim before the officers trial.
Suspect or subject, not victim.
I had a very long write up put together but I'l cut it down to this.
That cop had no control of his scene, how he was a FTO is beyond me. She should have been cuffed up, on the curb or in the back seat. Never turn down free back up, which he did. I also don't let people talk on their phones during contacts, that is how the whole family and friends show up and make a scene. That is basic stuff taught in academy. He did try to verbally de-escalate before it went fvcky, but that failed because she didn't want to be chill. De-escalation is a two way street and requires active participation from both parties. Males also tend to treat women as being less dangerous than males and relax too soon around them.
Tasers suck, and they have been propped up as some mythical less-lethal device where suspects will stop at the mere sight of the laser being turned on. Tasers have about a 50% documented stop rate. They require proper probe spread to work and at the distance in this case, they wouldn't have had enough spread to cause full NMI. He went for the drive stun which is nothing more than electrified pain compliance. OC probably would have worked better in this case, but there is a severe over reliance on Tasers. A shoulder lock would have been a fast, safe way to extract her from the car instead of playing tug of war with her arm. Fun fact: when money dries up due to defunding or other budget issues, the training budget is the first to get hit. My agency lost about 20% of our annual budget due to de facto defunding, we had an annual qualification and all other training went online through PoliceOne to meet our required training hours. I have had no agency run defensive tactics training in 2 years, I'm getting started with BJJ for my own safety.
The why, cops nationwide are running scared to use any form of force against a black person. This is leading to officer safety issues as we try to not make the news, get doxxed, get sued, start riots, etc. I have no doubt these issues were going through his mind dealing with her. This, combined with day shift complacency, lead down the path we saw on video. I won't say more about his weight beyond fat body cops are a liability.
The suspect's family will win the ghetto lottery with this and the cop will be hung out to dry eventually. It's a clean shoot since she shot first, it's plain to see in the video, but shouldn't have gotten that far. This was a train wreck of a contact.
I'm not as great of a writer, but this article mirrors a lot of my sentiment. We saw Ofc. Baker reach his physical limits during this interaction.
http://www.vdmsr.com/2021/03/physical-dissonance-and-preparing-for.html
ChattanoogaPhil
03-21-21, 16:49
Non LEO observation here. Seen video of a stunned perp able to walk about 10' or more and start stabbing the officer. It's like the officer is processing why the perp is able to advance toward him while being tased.... then in a mere second it's too late. Seems to me the taser puts the officer at a significant disadvantage at short distances.
While I don’t 100% understand his reasoning for not at least sitting her down on the curb, that he didn’t control her access to the car is mind boggling.
Would it have been ok for him to take the keys to the vehicle from her when she was outside the car? Close and lock the door so she’d knock that nonsense off? Or is that generally outside of policy?
Sent from 80ms in the future
I had a very long write up put together but I'l cut it down to this.
That cop had no control of his scene, how he was a FTO is beyond me. She should have been cuffed up, on the curb or in the back seat. Never turn down free back up, which he did. I also don't let people talk on their phones during contacts, that is how the whole family and friends show up and make a scene. That is basic stuff taught in academy. He did try to verbally de-escalate before it went fvcky, but that failed because she didn't want to be chill. De-escalation is a two way street and requires active participation from both parties. Males also tend to treat women as being less dangerous than males and relax too soon around them.
Tasers suck, and they have been propped up as some mythical less-lethal device where suspects will stop at the mere sight of the laser being turned on. Tasers have about a 50% documented stop rate. They require proper probe spread to work and at the distance in this case, they wouldn't have had enough spread to cause full NMI. He went for the drive stun which is nothing more than electrified pain compliance. OC probably would have worked better in this case, but there is a severe over reliance on Tasers. A shoulder lock would have been a fast, safe way to extract her from the car instead of playing tug of war with her arm. Fun fact: when money dries up due to defunding or other budget issues, the training budget is the first to get hit. My agency lost about 20% of our annual budget due to de facto defunding, we had an annual qualification and all other training went online through PoliceOne to meet our required training hours. I have had no agency run defensive tactics training in 2 years, I'm getting started with BJJ for my own safety.
The why, cops nationwide are running scared to use any form of force against a black person. This is leading to officer safety issues as we try to not make the news, get doxxed, get sued, start riots, etc. I have no doubt these issues were going through his mind dealing with her. This, combined with day shift complacency, lead down the path we saw on video. I won't say more about his weight beyond fat body cops are a liability.
The suspect's family will win the ghetto lottery with this and the cop will be hung out to dry eventually. It's a clean shoot since she shot first, it's plain to see in the video, but shouldn't have gotten that far. This was a train wreck of a contact.
I'm not as great of a writer, but this article mirrors a lot of my sentiment. We saw Ofc. Baker reach his physical limits during this interaction.
http://www.vdmsr.com/2021/03/physical-dissonance-and-preparing-for.html
A lot of truth here. Rookies nowadays are at a severe disadvantage.
The officer looks like he is another fine outstanding member of Generation T, AKA the Taser Generation.
The driver thought his kindness was weakness. And she was right.
So much wrong on his part I don't know where to begin.
I can end with him apparently having no survival instinct or will to live, and having completely gone apathetic and having just given up after getting shot.
And there are people defending that POS driver? Pathetic.
And there are people defending that POS driver? Pathetic.
A year ago they would have burned Nashville to the ground over it.
Andy
Averageman
03-22-21, 09:42
Actually if you look at it from a perspective that doesn't include race, (Just make these two the same beige color.) She completely owned this guy, she took control of the whole incident and owned it.
Had she a more substantial weapon in a heavier caliber, well it would be dirt nap time for that Cop.
She decided to pull the trigger when he found the Dope and She was on the phone, She began maneuvering to do just that, from that moment forward. Watch her face and eyes while She maneuver's her way there.
He was afraid to cuff and curb her. He paid, well, we all will pay for it.
Black_Sheep
03-22-21, 13:05
I’m not a cop but I know that you don’t ever let a suspect re-enter a vehicle, which she was permitted to do several times. She should have been cuffed and put in the cruiser while searching the vehicle. Does anyone else find it alarming that the guy was a training officer? The department needs to evaluate their training protocols before other officers find themselves in a similar situation. They could use the video as an example of what not to do...
chamber143
03-22-21, 18:23
As an LEO i can tell you that it more than likely isnt a training issue. I would almost bet you that the problem stems from the Chief down. Even our department has changed a lot of of our SOPs when dealing with minority’s in an effort to appease city hall. What isn’t hard to predict is that going at perps with kid gloves is going to result in more officers being killed in the line of duty. One of the reasons i am pulling the pin in 3 months and switching to a much safer job. I have 3 kids and would love to see them grow up.
How can they allow a tub of lard like him to be a patrol officer? Why is there no mandatory fitness for officers? I mean deere gawd what has this country come to?
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chamber143
03-23-21, 09:53
How can they allow a tub of lard like him to be a patrol officer? Why is there no mandatory fitness for officers? I mean deere gawd what has this country come to?
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Most departments now don’t have yearly fitness requirements. I know ours only has the standards to qualify to become an Leo. After that it’s up to each officer to maintain a certain level of fitness. With pay not being great and the climate of things now it’s hard to attract anyone who wants to become an officer. So nothing is really said. Not to mention he has strips so he clearly is in lower level command structure so who the hell knows.
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How can they allow a tub of lard like him to be a patrol officer? Why is there no mandatory fitness for officers? I mean deere gawd what has this country come to?
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I know in at least one case: unions. A major metro PD in the NE tried to start yearly minimum mandatory fitness qual. Existing LEOs were grandfathered, so only people starting at X date would apply. The union shut it down according to my friends in the PD.
I don't know how/if that applies to that and other obese/morbidly obese LEOs, but it is a factor in some cases as to why once they are on the job, they are not required to maintain even a minimum fitness level.
BTW, union also did their best at the time to prevent the PD from banning smoking too...
Most departments now don’t have yearly fitness requirements. I know ours only has the standards to qualify to become an Leo. After that it’s up to each officer to maintain a certain level of fitness. With pay not being great and the climate of things now it’s hard to attract anyone who wants to become an officer. So nothing is really said. Not to mention he has strips so he clearly is in lower level command structure so who the hell knows.
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If the LEO is so obese he/she can't even function as an effective LEO, putting themselves and you in danger, how would your PD deal with that? Informal talk? Other? That guy was rolling around on ground to the point he couldn't even get to his feet.
gunnerblue
03-23-21, 10:49
My agency can do a "fit for duty" review for physical limitations including weight. I've never seen any action being taken after said reviews, however. I once encountered an officer on firearms qual day with only one working arm (stroke, iirc). He was well into retirement eligibility so I assume a blind eye was turned.
I'm gonna guess that between unions, recruitment, and retention issues that if Jabba can drag his ass into a cruiser he's "fit for duty". Not sure it's new either. I recall some BIG cops when I was a kid. The joke was, don't run from 'em cause they'll just shoot you instead of chasing you.
chamber143
03-23-21, 11:00
If the LEO is so obese he/she can't even function as an effective LEO, putting themselves and you in danger, how would your PD deal with that? Informal talk? Other? That guy was rolling around on ground to the point he couldn't even get to his feet.
I’m not arguing that one bit. I agree whole heartedly but refer down two or three posts to utahjeepr and he has hit it on the head. We mostly police our own and lightly dig at our overweight officers. Sometimes it works but we we don’t have anyone that large. That wouldn’t fly but then again retention in this environment is real so it’s anyone’s guess
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I’m not arguing that one bit. I agree whole heartedly but refer down two or three posts to utahjeepr and he has hit it on the head. We mostly police our own and lightly dig at our overweight officers. Sometimes it works but we we don’t have anyone that large. That wouldn’t fly but then again retention in this environment is real so it’s anyone’s guess
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He's out there getting shot at and I'm not, so doing my best to keep a balanced discussion about the issue. I have been doing seminars, published articles in LE pubs (https://www.policemag.com/342553/the-patrol-athlete), etc for years on officer fitness and such. Goal is to make them better officers so they get home alive and can do the job effectively.
Most departments now don’t have yearly fitness requirements. I know ours only has the standards to qualify to become an Leo. After that it’s up to each officer to maintain a certain level of fitness. With pay not being great and the climate of things now it’s hard to attract anyone who wants to become an officer. So nothing is really said. Not to mention he has strips so he clearly is in lower level command structure so who the hell knows.
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He's making at least $7k above the per capita income for Nashville.
Assuming the per capita income is an average that includes people working in the music industry along with executive salaries in financial, communications, and similar business located in Nashville that average is likely much higher than what the average Nashville citizen is paid also.
https://www.nashville.gov/Police-Department/Get-Involved/Become-a-Police-Officer/Pay-Scale-and-Benefits.aspx
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/nashvilledavidsonbalancetennessee/INC110219
chamber143
03-23-21, 11:55
He's making at least $7k above the per capita income for Nashville.
Assuming the per capita income is an average that includes people working in the music industry along with executive salaries in financial, communications, and similar business located in Nashville that average is likely much higher than what the average Nashville citizen is paid also.
https://www.nashville.gov/Police-Department/Get-Involved/Become-a-Police-Officer/Pay-Scale-and-Benefits.aspx
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/nashvilledavidsonbalancetennessee/INC110219
He is probably between 45500-52000 if ours is in line where I’m at. You can keep that. Not enough to be being shot at. I make more on my 2 off than I do at my road job. So I’m trading in 70+hour a week job for my own business and working 40 or less and make the same if not more. And the only thing I fear is the occasional dog chasing me. To each his own but I have 3 kids and this job has become thankless. Not to mention starting out at 32-35 and have to fear of being shot or demonized by city hall if you have to defend yourself. No thanks. And you wonder why retention is such a problem. No one in their right mind who is intelligent would get into policing now unless you have a serious desire to serve the public. I once did but the last 5 years has disheartened me to the point that I see no matter what crime keeps getting worse and nothing we do makes a difference. Hell most peeps are back on the street before my shift ends. I’d rather spend my time making a decent living and the rest at the pool with my children.
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He is probably between 45500-52000 if ours is in line where I’m at. You can keep that. Not enough to be being shot at. I make more on my 2 off than I do at my road job. So I’m trading in 70+hour a week job for my own business and working 40 or less and make the same if not more. And the only thing I fear is the occasional dog chasing me. To each his own but I have 3 kids and this job has become thankless. Not to mention starting out at 32-35 and have to fear of being shot or demonized by city hall if you have to defend yourself. No thanks. And you wonder why retention is such a problem. No one in their right mind who is intelligent would get into policing now unless you have a serious desire to serve the public. I once did but the last 5 years has disheartened me to the point that I see no matter what crime keeps getting worse and nothing we do makes a difference. Hell most peeps are back on the street before my shift ends. I’d rather spend my time making a decent living and the rest at the pool with my children.
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Can't blame you one bit. Seems like you are either gonna get killed or disabled, sued for all you got, or get fired and stripped of pension over bent feels. Good luck with your side hustle.
ChattanoogaPhil
03-23-21, 13:15
Weight doesn't appear to be a disqualifier here in Chattanooga. Seen a female officer that was so big she looked like an engorged tick with little arms and legs poking out.
In fairness, if you think sitting at a desk will give you a fat ass, living in a cruiser is a F'ing blue print. At least at a desk you occasionally walk over to grab coffee and donuts. Do an 8 hour shift in a cruiser and it's drive throughs.
That means you gotta stay fit on your own time and that's a bit challenging for some after pulling an 8-10 hour shift, especially since first year is almost always third shift.
Lol people confuse police work with Fire and EMS. Fire and EMS het to work 24 hour schedules whereupon they get paid to take classes, work out, sleep in a bed, do home cooked meals in a kitchen, etc etc. Duty is rotated where the vehicles are cleaned and chores are done.
Police work is 12 hours on PAPER. You gotta ride around, make arrests, do this, do that at some WEIRD ASS HOURS, then you gotta go to COURT and Court is either on a day off of just after you get off. Judge doesn’t care. Everything is closed except for fast food (which is closed now because of the Rona) and everybody hates you and knows your job better than you despite never having been in a fight since middle school.
People do energy drinks to get them going, smoke heavy to not have to smell, have no friends and basically you welcome every day closer to death as a painless gift.
So it’s a recipe for a totally unhealthy lifestyle. A LOT of folks went through academy looking totally RIPPED. Ran miles every day. Etc etc. Now ya get the Sipowicz bod where you can still tighten somebody’s neck or beat their ass but your days of sexy are long gone. Except for the damaged freaks who get turned on by it but none of whom are suitable for marriage.
I mean. Someone once askee me if True Detective was BS. So I said I didn’t know. Then I got HBO to watch me some Snyder Cut and then watched some AD and yes. At least the first season. Yes. It touched a nerve.
https://hips.hearstapps.com/esquireuk.cdnds.net/16/25/1466674613-rust-cohle-gif.gif
Lol people confuse police work with Fire and EMS. Fire and EMS het to work 24 hour schedules whereupon they get paid to take classes, work out, sleep in a bed, do home cooked meals in a kitchen, etc etc. Duty is rotated where the vehicles are cleaned and chores are done.
Police work is 12 hours on PAPER. You gotta ride around, make arrests, do this, do that at some WEIRD ASS HOURS, then you gotta go to COURT and Court is either on a day off of just after you get off. Judge doesn’t care. Everything is closed except for fast food (which is closed now because of the Rona) and everybody hates you and knows your job better than you despite never having been in a fight since middle school.
People do energy drinks to get them going, smoke heavy to not have to smell, have no friends and basically you welcome every day closer to death as a painless gift.
So it’s a recipe for a totally unhealthy lifestyle. A LOT of folks went through academy looking totally RIPPED. Ran miles every day. Etc etc. Now ya get the Sipowicz bod where you can still tighten somebody’s neck or beat their ass but your days of sexy are long gone. Except for the damaged freaks who get turned on by it but none of whom are suitable for marriage.
I mean. Someone once askee me if True Detective was BS. So I said I didn’t know. Then I got HBO to watch me some Snyder Cut and then watched some AD and yes. At least the first season. Yes. It touched a nerve.
https://hips.hearstapps.com/esquireuk.cdnds.net/16/25/1466674613-rust-cohle-gif.gif
All true but Corrections is still worse. Wouldn't do that job for anything.
Averageman
03-23-21, 21:45
All true but Corrections is still worse. Wouldn't do that job for anything.
I worked with a guy who had a career going in corrections, someone tossed him off the third tier, ended up disabled.
I couldn't do it
I see no matter what crime keeps getting worse and nothing we do makes a difference.
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This begs another question. As a society what do we do to curb the jump in crime?
It’s on the rise everywhere. Start building gallows outside courthouses and marching people from guilty verdicts to the gallows?
Loosening self defense laws helps, but not enough people carry or train.
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ChattanoogaPhil
03-24-21, 06:21
As a society what do we do to curb the jump in crime?
Put criminals behind bars. Every day a criminal is behind bars is one less day they can commit crimes against society.
One of the first things that should be done is round up the hundreds of thousands of criminals released early from prison due to Covid. Never should have been released in the first place, but with a vaccine available there's no Covid excuse to allow them to run amok until they've completed their sentence behind bars. Of course this will not happen. They'll return to prison (many already have) through the normal process of recidivism, delivering chaos, misery and death upon society until caught again.
This begs another question. As a society what do we do to curb the jump in crime?
It’s on the rise everywhere. Start building gallows outside courthouses and marching people from guilty verdicts to the gallows?
Loosening self defense laws helps, but not enough people carry or train.
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Ban victimless crime laws and focus on crimes with actual victims.
joedirt199
03-24-21, 07:08
I am sure you want a world where drug addicts run the streets in droves because the state can't be the victim.
I am sure you want a world where drug addicts run the streets in droves because the state can't be the victim.
Honestly, drug laws make things more violent. If we legalized them, it would cut the profit from the cartels. It would drop the price of drugs, and making them legal takes the dealing aspect out of the situation. The problem is their is too much money in drugs on both sides, cartels and govt. Our govt makes way too much money in “fighting drugs” and we all know how govt bureaucracy likes their pet projects and doesn’t like to be cut.
As with all liberties they come with responsibility though. I firmly think if you od, then that’s on you and you shouldn’t be getting narcan at the tax payers expense. And if you commit crimes while high, it should be a long drop with a short rope.
Prohibition of alcohol gave rise to the mob, and the likes of capon. Just like illegal drugs have given rise to gangs and cartels.
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^^^ This.
Anyone who wants drugs seems to have no problem getting them. Prohibition = big profit and violence. It doesn't stop people from ruining their lives with this garbage.
The current legalization model doesn't work either. From what I have seen reported the cartels have their hands in the legal market as well.
Gotta let legit industry run the trade. Then if folks junk out its on them. Jail time for crimes they commit. The way it is here if a dude is drunk and does a crime he goes to criminal court, but if he is high he can get "drug court" because "he's a victim of addiction".
Let society and ODs curb the appeal of drugs. The gangsters will be poor, drug users will be losers, narcanon can do their best, and piss on this drug war crap.
Ban victimless crime laws and focus on crimes with actual victims.
Quoted for truth.
Did the perp's pistol malfunction? I wonder if that is what kept her from firing more or perhaps she was conditioned by Hollyweird to expect the officer to fly into the air when she shot him.
I am sure you want a world where drug addicts run the streets in droves because the state can't be the victim.
The other members have hit most of my thoughts on the current war on drugs and the similarities to the earlier war on the drug known as alcohol. The only thing that I didn't see mentioned is illicit alcohol occasionally distilled by the unscrupulous and/or ignorant who knowingly adulterated (to increase volume or give a faux appearance of quality) or unknowingly screwed up the product resulting in things like blindness and jake leg which is quite like the village idiot cranking out meth in a motel room.
As far as the state being the victim, the state has indicated it feels victimized by private citizens being armed for quite some time just to name one topic very pertinent to this forum.
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