View Full Version : Gen 6 Camaro guys...
I have a few questions.
-What is the name / make of the 6-speed manual transmission put into a late model V6 Camaro and what are the gear ratios?
-Are those ratios the same in a 1LE V6 car?
I searched and can't find this information.
I did find the axle ratio is a very lame 3.27 in the V6 and 1LE V6.
-Does the car really run fine on 87 octane as GM advertises as the requirement? Or is 91 "reccomended" in the manual or on the gas cap lid?
-Are there decent ways to improve interior storage available like say an under-seat drawer or add-on door cubbies or something?
Obviously I'm thinking about getting a 1 LE V6 and the 3.27 gears will need replacing.
Being able to run 87 vs premium gas would save me about $480 a year. (For tires, track fees, bullets, etc)
Also, with handling limits pretty high, are these cars still fun on the street?
A car that refuses any slide or slip angle fun would be less fun than one that let's you play at lower speeds.
I cant speak to a lot of your V6 questions because...lame vs. getting an SS...
but that car almost definitely has a TR6060... BUT which one? I am reading MM6 which is what has been in a lot of cars since like 2001, but a lot of what I read shows thats in the SS 1LE, not necessarily the V6.
I would head over the Camaro6.com and join up. Or one of the facebook groups. They know their stuff on those cars.
Ive had a 2018 ZL1 with the 10spd auto... GREAT car, but I am a vette guy so I only kept that car like 8 months.
So not sure on the new Camaro's, but I have a 4th Gen LS (Trans Am), I don't think it has ever seen regular guess and I would not recommend it for the LS based stuff. On a V6? It all depends on how much you push the car. If you just drive it to work and never go above 3000rpm then who cares, but at 6K under load, I am willing to bet 87 will start knocking.
With a V6 I bet they have the TR3160 trans, only because I doubt GM would put the TR6060 in there, that's overkill. The "TR" means it's made by Tremec. The gearing in the Camaro is 4.40; 2.59; 1.80; 1.34; 1.00; 0.75. That gearing kind of sucks, means one extra shift at the 1/4 since you want to end in 1:1. Man, the T56 was so much better with a .50 6th gear on the 4th Gen F Bodies. I bet that 4.40 first gear is fun as hell tho lol.
The v6 in the Gen 6 has more power than the v8 in the 4th gen.
I think the 3160 is in the 4cyl, but as Ron3 points out, doesnt seem to be a ton of info on anything other than the v8 variants.
The v6 in the Gen 6 has more power than the v8 in the 4th gen.
I think the 3160 is in the 4cyl, but as Ron3 points out, doesnt seem to be a ton of info on anything other than the v8 variants.
The fact that there even is a 4cyl is disturbing lol.
I understand about the power output and 20 year difference, but the 6060 would still be overkill considering I ran 10.32 @ 133 on a factory stock T56.
I'm not going to stress it or beat it. I treat transmissions with mechanical sympathy.
But I do want choose the right axle gear for the trans gears. That's probably going to be 3.91, maybe 3.70, but I need to be sure that wont make 1st gear stupid short or turn too many rpms cruising at 80 mph daily.
No, I haven't bought a Camaro yet. Was really shopping a used C6 Corvette but they just have too many problems I wouldn't want to drive it daily. They need a gear swap, too, and it's much more expensive.
Coal Dragger
03-22-21, 12:44
If you’re looking at a Camaro do yourself a favor and buy one with a 6.2L in it. The GM 3.6L V6 is not a particularly good engine, and there is basically no aftermarket support for it if you want to mod the car.
In other news I embarrassed a new V6 Camaro yesterday afternoon with my wife, and 3 year old plus a trunk full of groceries in our family sedan. From a stoplight, he decided he wanted to be in front of me, I had other ideas. Our sedan has a 6.2L LS3 in it, which facilitated me not being subject to the whims of V6 Camaro drivers. LOL.
If you’re looking at a Camaro do yourself a favor and buy one with a 6.2L in it. The GM 3.6L V6 is not a particularly good engine, and there is basically no aftermarket support for it if you want to mod the car.
In other news I embarrassed a new V6 Camaro yesterday afternoon with my wife, and 3 year old plus a trunk full of groceries in our family sedan. From a stoplight, he decided he wanted to be in front of me, I had other ideas. Our sedan has a 6.2L LS3 in it, which facilitated me not being subject to the whims of V6 Camaro drivers. LOL.Let me add to that. The GM 3.6 is absolutely trash. I made lots of money working on that engine as an auto tech. Stay far, far, far away.
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I had a 2017 ZL1 w/ the LT4 power plant but know nothing of the non V8's...do yourself a favor & join camaro6.com.
...wealth of info on that site.
If you’re looking at a Camaro do yourself a favor and buy one with a 6.2L in it. The GM 3.6L V6 is not a particularly good engine, and there is basically no aftermarket support for it if you want to mod the car.
In other news I embarrassed a new V6 Camaro yesterday afternoon with my wife, and 3 year old plus a trunk full of groceries in our family sedan. From a stoplight, he decided he wanted to be in front of me, I had other ideas. Our sedan has a 6.2L LS3 in it, which facilitated me not being subject to the whims of V6 Camaro drivers. LOL.
The 3500 lb gen 6 Camaro will do a 1/4 mile at 103 mph. That's what I've been used to for the last few years.
Just need enough power to be fun. I'm done having 400-500 hp cars. I enjoy the extended amount of full-throttle time I get on the street with less power.
dwhitehorne
03-22-21, 14:34
I'm done having 400-500 hp cars.
I never thought I would hear an American male utter those words. :D David
I never thought I would hear an American male utter those words. :D David
I love the sound of a v8 but good handling is more enjoyable than "more than enough" power on the street. After 300 hp and under 3500 lbs or so I'd rather have less weight than more power.
I've had a car that would roast tires in 3rd at 60 mph when you romped it. It's fun the first time then it feels silly and pointless.
I never got tired of the 650hp...other than the safety addys, this was the stock Gen6 2017 ZL1 at the 'Ring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBmLnLJLQ0o
The 2018 in the 1LE package is basically a legal road course vehicle...suspension is pretty painful for the street. I know what you mean with HP/weight...the AWD Ford Focus RS or Honda Civic R type is gonna be REALLY hard to beat on those small parking lot moto-x layouts & give you a run for the $$$ in the straight line C6 V6.
Diamondback
03-22-21, 18:08
If you want one better get it while you can...
https://www.motor1.com/news/356610/chevy-camaro-discontinue-2023/
Personally, I'm more Firebird on the F-bodies and hoping to find a good price on a Thirdgen (blame Knight Rider when I was a sprog) in good shape, but I wish you luck chasing your happiness. :)
Coal Dragger
03-22-21, 19:46
The 3500 lb gen 6 Camaro will do a 1/4 mile at 103 mph. That's what I've been used to for the last few years.
Just need enough power to be fun. I'm done having 400-500 hp cars. I enjoy the extended amount of full-throttle time I get on the street with less power.
You’re not dropping much weight with a 3.6L DOHC V6 vs an all aluminum cam in block V8. Plus you’re moving mass up higher because those DOHC heads are not small. At the same time you’re getting a trash motor, and giving up power.
The LGX 3.6L V6 weighs 393lbs according to the interwebz. The new LT1 weighs 465lbs. Now I’m not a physicist or a mathematical genius but that’s not a big difference in mass, but it’s sure as hell a big difference in power output. Not to mention reliability, and resale.
Just don’t. As Buffort T. justice would say: you can think about it, but don’t do it.
Diamondback
03-22-21, 19:52
What I had been doodling was something like a combination of variable valve timing (around 2003 electromagnetically-actuated valves were being talked as "the next big thing") combined with some advanced SBC powertrains being able to shut down unneeded cylinders, so you could have a V8 for power then a 4-banger once up to cruise speed. Twin-turbo setup for power, true dual exhausts, Subaru-style continuously-variable transmission, carbon-fiber driveline to reduce rotating mass, 24-gallon tank for extended endurance... goal was to get 600-mile tanks at 90mph or better sustained, something that would be Cannonball Run material.
Coal Dragger
03-22-21, 19:56
CVT’s do not like high torque output. At all. Not even a little.
Diamondback
03-22-21, 20:23
Good to know, thanks. CVT's were still "new hotness" back then, so I think that hadn't been learned yet... bear in mind, that design study was almost two decades ago and a lot has changed in both new technologies emerging and others not panning out since then. Pretty sure if I started from a clean sheet of paper on the same body today, the only things that'd be staying would be the in-dash computer for realtime tuning, the bigger tank and lighter driveshaft and the new more streamlined nose...
CVT’s do not like high torque output. At all. Not even a little.Yep. I don't remember who, but a manufacturer released a TSB warning to never accerlarate quickly with a CVT due to their weakness.
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You’re not dropping much weight with a 3.6L DOHC V6 vs an all aluminum cam in block V8. Plus you’re moving mass up higher because those DOHC heads are not small. At the same time you’re getting a trash motor, and giving up power.
The LGX 3.6L V6 weighs 393lbs according to the interwebz. The new LT1 weighs 465lbs. Now I’m not a physicist or a mathematical genius but that’s not a big difference in mass, but it’s sure as hell a big difference in power output. Not to mention reliability, and resale.
Just don’t. As Buffort T. justice would say: you can think about it, but don’t do it.
Well, about 3515 vs 3780 so, about 265 lbs.
I drove the SS, felt too heavy. The 4 cyl Turbo is only 3350 lbs.
Why Is the LGX a "trash" motor? Redline 6800 rpm, 335 hp, sounds good, burns 87 octane. Seems good to me.
Coal Dragger
03-22-21, 20:57
Because they’re not reliable. At all.
A GM tech in this thread has already warned you.
Go check out the Car Wizard on YouTube. He comments frequently on how atrocious the GM 3.6L V6 is, and he’s not a brand fan of anyone except Toyota. He’s also a big fan of the old 3.8L GM V6 and the GM LS architecture series of V8’s (including the iron block truck variants) as long as they don’t have cylinder deactivation.
If you want a lighter car buy a Miata or a Toyota 86.
Was really shopping a used C6 Corvette but they just have too many problems I wouldn't want to drive it daily. They need a gear swap, too, and it's much more expensive.
WTF are you talking about? To many problems in the c6? There are actually VERY VERY few issues with C6's, they are fairly bullet proof cars. Ive owned 3 of them, one of which my old man bought from me and he daily drives and takes long road trips in with my mom. Please list out these "to many problems to daily drive"...the list will be short...
And have you even driven ANY of these cars you are thinking of buying? Gear swap right off the bat? Going to require an ECU flash which could(even if just to adjust for rear gear change) void your warranty... oh not to mention the rear gear swap will likely void the entire powertrain warranty anyway. And ive driven PLENTY of C6's of all variety(LS2, LS3, LS7, manual, auto) and I never felt any of them needed a gear swap to lower gears. 400+ ft. lbs. of torque is A LOT in a 3300lb car. All manual C6's have a 3.42 rear end already and the Z51 has a 2.97 1st gear(shorter than a standard and Z06 box). You can get a C6 rear end done for $1000 if you just HAVE TO do gears(assuming the rear end doesnt need any bearings or anything else, just gears and new seals).
And if what Alex V says is true about the v6 camaro having a 4.40 1st gear THATS CRAZY SHORT...even with a 3.27(or whatever) rear end. My 02 Z06 has what is considered a "short" first gear and its a 2.97 with a 3.54 rear end... I wouldnt want to drive anything with a 4.40 1st gear and a 3.90 rear end... 1st would be utterly USELESS and you would end up starting in 2nd all the time...guarantee it.
I think you are talking in "theoreticals" vs. real world experience.
WTF are you talking about? To many problems in the c6? There are actually VERY VERY few issues with C6's, they are fairly bullet proof cars. Ive owned 3 of them, one of which my old man bought from me and he daily drives and takes long road trips in with my mom. Please list out these "to many problems to daily drive"...the list will be short...
And have you even driven ANY of these cars you are thinking of buying? Gear swap right off the bat? Going to require an ECU flash which could(even if just to adjust for rear gear change) void your warranty... oh not to mention the rear gear swap will likely void the entire powertrain warranty anyway. And ive driven PLENTY of C6's of all variety(LS2, LS3, LS7, manual, auto) and I never felt any of them needed a gear swap to lower gears. 400+ ft. lbs. of torque is A LOT in a 3300lb car. All manual C6's have a 3.42 rear end already and the Z51 has a 2.97 1st gear(shorter than a standard and Z06 box). You can get a C6 rear end done for $1000 if you just HAVE TO do gears(assuming the rear end doesnt need any bearings or anything else, just gears and new seals).
And if what Alex V says is true about the v6 camaro having a 4.40 1st gear THATS CRAZY SHORT...even with a 3.27(or whatever) rear end. My 02 Z06 has what is considered a "short" first gear and its a 2.97 with a 3.54 rear end... I wouldnt want to drive anything with a 4.40 1st gear and a 3.90 rear end... 1st would be utterly USELESS and you would end up starting in 2nd all the time...guarantee it.
I think you are talking in "theoreticals" vs. real world experience.Yeah the Vette is pretty good. The things we saw were from lack of driving (oil leaks etc.)
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WTF are you talking about? To many problems in the c6? There are actually VERY VERY few issues with C6's, they are fairly bullet proof cars. Ive owned 3 of them, one of which my old man bought from me and he daily drives and takes long road trips in with my mom. Please list out these "to many problems to daily drive"...the list will be short...
And have you even driven ANY of these cars you are thinking of buying? Gear swap right off the bat? Going to require an ECU flash which could(even if just to adjust for rear gear change) void your warranty... oh not to mention the rear gear swap will likely void the entire powertrain warranty anyway. And ive driven PLENTY of C6's of all variety(LS2, LS3, LS7, manual, auto) and I never felt any of them needed a gear swap to lower gears. 400+ ft. lbs. of torque is A LOT in a 3300lb car. All manual C6's have a 3.42 rear end already and the Z51 has a 2.97 1st gear(shorter than a standard and Z06 box). You can get a C6 rear end done for $1000 if you just HAVE TO do gears(assuming the rear end doesnt need any bearings or anything else, just gears and new seals).
And if what Alex V says is true about the v6 camaro having a 4.40 1st gear THATS CRAZY SHORT...even with a 3.27(or whatever) rear end. My 02 Z06 has what is considered a "short" first gear and its a 2.97 with a 3.54 rear end... I wouldnt want to drive anything with a 4.40 1st gear and a 3.90 rear end... 1st would be utterly USELESS and you would end up starting in 2nd all the time...guarantee it.
I think you are talking in "theoreticals" vs. real world experience.
A family member has recently had a 2000 C5 and a 2003 C5 Z06. I've driven both. Being able to take 2nd to over 80 mph is ridiculous. It's like you only need 1st, 2nd, and 4th, really. Thats not very fun.
Issues have been: AC distribution, main seal leaks, Oil gauge's go out / leak, clutch slave cylinder leaks, clutch pedal failing to return, fuel gauge inconsistently working, passive anti-theft issues, wheel speed sensors, roof panel leaks and squeaks, harmonic balancers coming loose, seat motor / memory issues, (as in, seat moves when you get it and won't move back to where you need it) valve train issues (more of a C7 Z06 issue IIRC) and a few more I'm forgetting I'm sure.
I was hoping the C6 revision had repaired most of the issues but my research says otherwise. These issues are very common.
What appeals to me is the engine note, lightness / response, handling, brakes, good highway mpg, low insurance, and track readiness.
There are many cool things about Corvettes but as far as quality they are POS compared to most Asian brands and that makes me hesitant to purchase one for daily driving.
I'm not concerned about warranty because I'd be buying a '12 or '13 anyway with expired warranty. That's about the same price as a '19 or '20 used Camaro SS, new Camaro 2LT 1LE, or for even less a new Hyundai Veloster N. Or for much less a lightly used '13-'16 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8L.
I used to have a Mustang Cobra with a 3.37 1st and 4.10 axle (came with 3.27's) hear. Yea, 1st wasn't very usefull except when stuck in traffic. I could let the clutch out without having to slip it and put along at 3-5 mph. And with a .63 5th (IIRC) 80 mph gave about 2750 rpm (IIRC) and that was fine. So 3.70's in the V6 Camaro would be absolutely fine but I still don't know what 5th or 6th gear is.
Really steep gears can stink when you have 400 ft lbs of torque and 450 hp. But when you have 325 hp and 285 lb ft and an engine that likes and needs to rev it's quite fun and useable daily.
The point is to enjoy driving a good-handling car every day that is at least slightly faster and responsive than most cars on the road so I can move around better in heavy, fast traffic. Otherwise I don't care and will gladly move right when the ZL1 flys past me at 120 doing a traffic-cop-check for me.
A family member has recently had a 2000 C5 and a 2003 C5 Z06. I've driven both. Being able to take 2nd to over 80 mph is ridiculous. It's like you only need 1st, 2nd, and 4th, really. Thats not very fun.
Issues have been: AC distribution, main seal leaks, Oil gauge's go out / leak, clutch slave cylinder leaks, clutch pedal failing to return, fuel gauge inconsistently working, passive anti-theft issues, wheel speed sensors, roof panel leaks and squeaks, harmonic balancers coming loose, seat motor / memory issues, (as in, seat moves when you get it and won't move back to where you need it) valve train issues (more of a C7 Z06 issue IIRC) and a few more I'm forgetting I'm sure..
MOST of those are C5 problems.
-AC distribution: C5 problem solved by swapping 1 or 2 electric motors that isnt that hard to do. Never heard of issues in C6's, at least its not a common issue.
-Main seal leaks: havent really seen any C6's with either front or rear main seal leaks, not really a c5 thing either... really not an LS thing to much in anything that has an LS based motor.
-Oil gauge? not the oil gauge, oil sending unit... C5 issue, not a c6 issue. And on the C5 is EASILY remedied anyway.
-Clutch slave leaks: not an issue I have seen in either C5 or C6. NOW the slave attracting clutch dust and contaminating the clutch fluid, yea thats an issue, but nothing a little preventative MX every 6 months or so doesnt keep in check. Thats a C5, C6 and C7 issue.
-Clutch pedal failing to return: yea issue more in C6 than C5. I think GM has a special 10 year 100k mile warranty on the clutch master.
-Fuel gauge inconsistently working: not an issue on a car that is driven, its an issue on cars that sit as the contactors on the fuel senders get corrosion on them from not moving. A car thats driven is constantly cleaning the contacts as the sender contacts move up and down. Ive had 6 cars with the "same" fuel sender system and never had an issue. Also doesnt hurt to run a bottle of Techron in the tank every 6 months or so.
-Passive anti theft issues: C5 issue with the column lock. 2005 C6 was the ONLY c6 to have it, it was eliminated on 2006+ cars. Also easy to eliminate that issue on the C5 with a 40 dollar part.
-wheel speed sensors: never heard of this in C5 or C6.
-Roof panel leaks: in the 7 cars I have owned with removable tops(C4, C6, C7) I have never had one leak. Hell the C6 convertible never leaks either. Shit my C5Z06 with a FIXED ROOF leaks worse than any removable top Corvette I have ever owned, although to be fair the "rain gutter" is cracked and doesnt seal anymore... And leaky tops are EASY to fix with new weatherstrip which is pretty cheap.
-Harmonic balancers: yea its an issue, but far from only a vette issue. That same basic design has issues across ALL GM vehicles. The rubber that connects the hub to the pulley disintegrates over time. One time fix with an ATI or Innovators West pulley.
-memory issues: mostly a C5 thing, but also sort of affects C6 and C7. Each generation has their issues with it.
-valve train issues are solely related to C6Z(not C7Z) LS7, but doesnt sound like thats what you are looking for anyway. LS3 is bullet proof.
MOST of those are C5 problems.
-AC distribution: C5 problem solved by swapping 1 or 2 electric motors that isnt that hard to do. Never heard of issues in C6's, at least its not a common issue.
-Main seal leaks: havent really seen any C6's with either front or rear main seal leaks, not really a c5 thing either... really not an LS thing to much in anything that has an LS based motor.
-Oil gauge? not the oil gauge, oil sending unit... C5 issue, not a c6 issue. And on the C5 is EASILY remedied anyway.
-Clutch slave leaks: not an issue I have seen in either C5 or C6. NOW the slave attracting clutch dust and contaminating the clutch fluid, yea thats an issue, but nothing a little preventative MX every 6 months or so doesnt keep in check. Thats a C5, C6 and C7 issue.
-Clutch pedal failing to return: yea issue more in C6 than C5. I think GM has a special 10 year 100k mile warranty on the clutch master.
-Fuel gauge inconsistently working: not an issue on a car that is driven, its an issue on cars that sit as the contactors on the fuel senders get corrosion on them from not moving. A car thats driven is constantly cleaning the contacts as the sender contacts move up and down. Ive had 6 cars with the "same" fuel sender system and never had an issue. Also doesnt hurt to run a bottle of Techron in the tank every 6 months or so.
-Passive anti theft issues: C5 issue with the column lock. 2005 C6 was the ONLY c6 to have it, it was eliminated on 2006+ cars. Also easy to eliminate that issue on the C5 with a 40 dollar part.
-wheel speed sensors: never heard of this in C5 or C6.
-Roof panel leaks: in the 7 cars I have owned with removable tops(C4, C6, C7) I have never had one leak. Hell the C6 convertible never leaks either. Shit my C5Z06 with a FIXED ROOF leaks worse than any removable top Corvette I have ever owned, although to be fair the "rain gutter" is cracked and doesnt seal anymore... And leaky tops are EASY to fix with new weatherstrip which is pretty cheap.
-Harmonic balancers: yea its an issue, but far from only a vette issue. That same basic design has issues across ALL GM vehicles. The rubber that connects the hub to the pulley disintegrates over time. One time fix with an ATI or Innovators West pulley.
-memory issues: mostly a C5 thing, but also sort of affects C6 and C7. Each generation has their issues with it.
-valve train issues are solely related to C6Z(not C7Z) LS7, but doesnt sound like thats what you are looking for anyway. LS3 is bullet proof.
Thanks a lot for typing up your experience with these issues/non-issues.
I've been keeping an eye out for a '12 or 13' manual, non-vert, LT2 (I think is what GM calls it, has good seats but no memory stuff to fail) not red or yellow, not high miles, not customized, (or barely) not smoked in, few owners, no or very minor damage history, not very far away, etc, etc.
Takes a while to find just what you want when you're that specific. So I need to be open to other options.
Business_Casual
03-23-21, 20:22
Seriously the 6.2L is the way to go.
Nightstalker865
03-23-21, 20:58
Thanks a lot for typing up your experience with these issues/non-issues.
I've been keeping an eye out for a '12 or 13' manual, non-vert, LT2 (I think is what GM calls it, has good seats but no memory stuff to fail) not red or yellow, not high miles, not customized, (or barely) not smoked in, few owners, no or very minor damage history, not very far away, etc, etc.
Takes a while to find just what you want when you're that specific. So I need to be open to other options.
Are you talking about a 2LT trim C6?
LT2 is an engine code. Specifically the one in the C8’s.
I’m still having a hard time following your logic in this thread. You mention a positive for the C6 as it being “track ready” yet you praise the V6 Camaro..
As others have said, you need to do more research on the C6 platform. They are excellent cars and have very few issues. Pickup a 12-13 Grand Sport with the LS3 and it will do everything your wanting.
Forget the V6 F-Body.
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Thanks a lot for typing up your experience with these issues/non-issues.
I've been keeping an eye out for a '12 or 13' manual, non-vert, LT2 (I think is what GM calls it, has good seats but no memory stuff to fail) not red or yellow, not high miles, not customized, (or barely) not smoked in, few owners, no or very minor damage history, not very far away, etc, etc.
Takes a while to find just what you want when you're that specific. So I need to be open to other options.
I would look for 08+ cars. LS3/TR6060. In the base cars there were really no BIG changes. In 2011 you got bluetooth audio in on the factory radio, but its a raging piece of shit, so I wouldnt let that sway me towards a 2011+.
If you like the seats from 12-13, you can change them out for a VERY reasonable cost yourself. Its just the seat backs, but you can buy kits with new bottom skins and new bottom foam also. www.leatherseats.com offers the conversion kit and you can customize your seats.
The PROBLEM with trying to find a 12-13 base, narrowbody car, is almost EVERYTHING was Grand Sport at that point. There were 2 GS's built for every narrowbody in 2012. 2013 was also about the same 1:2 ratio of narrowbody to GS.
So if you HAVE TO HAVE a narrowbody, expand your search to 2008+ cars. If a grand sport interests you, then look at 2010+ cars. The seats can be redone pretty easily.
Also tracking a narrowbody car with the base brakes is a recipe for spread brake calipers. While the GS/Z06 calipers aren't GREAT in the realm of "brembo" type calipers(they are not brembo calipers they are still PBR calipers) they are a HUGE step up from the 2 piston, sliding, base calipers. If you get a base car, keep in your budget some money to upgrade the brake calipers.
Also if you are searching only narrowbody cars, I personally would ONLY want a Z51 car. Thats 08-09... in 2010 Z51 was gone in the narrowbody cars and they forced you into a GS.
search on corvetteforum as there are LOTS of really nice cars on there.
Are you talking about a 2LT trim C6?
LT2 is an engine code. Specifically the one in the C8’s.
I’m still having a hard time following your logic in this thread. You mention a positive for the C6 as it being “track ready” yet you praise the V6 Camaro..
As others have said, you need to do more research on the C6 platform. They are excellent cars and have very few issues. Pickup a 12-13 Grand Sport with the LS3 and it will do everything your wanting.
Forget the V6 F-Body.
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Yea, I meant 2LT.
What makes the V6 "track ready" is the 1LE package with auxiliary engine oil cooler, transmission cooler, and rear end cooler.
These are things a non-1LE SS doesn't have. That means I can stay out on the tracker longer without hurting anything.
So, I'd rather have a V6 with 1LE than an SS without that package.
My main concern with the GS Corvette are that fatass tires. I drive 15k miles a year and it's not rare I'm driving in standing water on the interstate. I'd probably have to crawl in the right lane in a light car with fat tires. Then of course is the cost of tires. And I still think the 3.42's stink combined with the tall gears (low numerically) of the transmission.
The difference in cost between a v6 1LE and SS 1LE is at least $15K. In addition, I'm not willing to pay big money for a new car I'm going to put miles on and get chipped up on the interstate. That's also why I'm open to used but low-mile.
So, the most I'm willing to pay is about $35k.
I would look for 08+ cars. LS3/TR6060. In the base cars there were really no BIG changes. In 2011 you got bluetooth audio in on the factory radio, but its a raging piece of shit, so I wouldnt let that sway me towards a 2011+.
If you like the seats from 12-13, you can change them out for a VERY reasonable cost yourself. Its just the seat backs, but you can buy kits with new bottom skins and new bottom foam also. www.leatherseats.com offers the conversion kit and you can customize your seats.
The PROBLEM with trying to find a 12-13 base, narrowbody car, is almost EVERYTHING was Grand Sport at that point. There were 2 GS's built for every narrowbody in 2012. 2013 was also about the same 1:2 ratio of narrowbody to GS.
So if you HAVE TO HAVE a narrowbody, expand your search to 2008+ cars. If a grand sport interests you, then look at 2010+ cars. The seats can be redone pretty easily.
Also tracking a narrowbody car with the base brakes is a recipe for spread brake calipers. While the GS/Z06 calipers aren't GREAT in the realm of "brembo" type calipers(they are not brembo calipers they are still PBR calipers) they are a HUGE step up from the 2 piston, sliding, base calipers. If you get a base car, keep in your budget some money to upgrade the brake calipers.
Also if you are searching only narrowbody cars, I personally would ONLY want a Z51 car. Thats 08-09... in 2010 Z51 was gone in the narrowbody cars and they forced you into a GS.
search on corvetteforum as there are LOTS of really nice cars on there.
Bluetooth is a big factor towards the '11 and later. Thanks for telling me that system is junk!
I also didnt know the base brakes were sliding calipers! That means less pad life among other things.
Yes, I've found many more GS cars than narrow body. I actually prefer the smooth look of the narrow body C6 vs any C5-C8. It's subtle, slick, and blends in more. (Feels more unpretentious and less popped-collar to me) Less attention is good.
Thanks.
My main concern with the GS Corvette are that fatass tires. I drive 15k miles a year and it's not rare I'm driving in standing water on the interstate. I'd probably have to crawl in the right lane in a light car with fat tires. Then of course is the cost of tires. And I still think the 3.42's stink combined with the tall gears (low numerically) of the transmission.
Yet again, you are speaking about things you have no experience with.
You are stuck on this gearing thing and yet EVERYBODY is telling you its not a big deal, especially in a 3200lb car with 400+ ft. lbs. of torque... Stick it in 1st and let it rev. I drove The Dragon almost all in 1st gear in my C7Z06... 32 South of Cosby, TN was also all in 1st. Most other roads out there 2nd and 3rd... While I love a manual transmission sports car, I dont get the fascination people have with constantly shifting. Put the damn car in a gear and run it. I autox 99% of the time in 1st gear only.
And rain with wide tires is no big deal. Ive driven all of my wide body Corvette's in the rain, some times for hours. No big deal. TONS of people daily drive wide body corvette's in all kinds of conditions. Its not an issue.
Bluetooth is a big factor towards the '11 and later. Thanks for telling me that system is junk!
I also didnt know the base brakes were sliding calipers! That means less pad life among other things.
Yes, I've found many more GS cars than narrow body. I actually prefer the smooth look of the narrow body C6 vs any C5-C8. It's subtle, slick, and blends in more. (Feels more unpretentious and less popped-collar to me) Less attention is good.
Thanks.
yea dont base your decision on the factory junk radio.
And sliding calipers does not equal less pad life... how did you come up with that? Unless your sliders stick, your pad life will be relatively the same between sliding and fixed. I bet 95% of cars on the road use sliding calipers.
The wide body cars look so much better than the narrow body cars so I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
yea dont base your decision on the factory junk radio.
And sliding calipers does not equal less pad life... how did you come up with that? Unless your sliders stick, your pad life will be relatively the same between sliding and fixed. I bet 95% of cars on the road use sliding calipers.
The wide body cars look so much better than the narrow body cars so I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
On the Mustang Cobras I've had the dual piston calipers would twist (road course) and the pads would wear unevenly leading to earlier replacement. (As in, the expensive pads could have lasted 25% longer or so if they wore evenly)
Not a concern with driving on the street.
Yet again, you are speaking about things you have no experience with.
You are stuck on this gearing thing and yet EVERYBODY is telling you its not a big deal, especially in a 3200lb car with 400+ ft. lbs. of torque... Stick it in 1st and let it rev. I drove The Dragon almost all in 1st gear in my C7Z06... 32 South of Cosby, TN was also all in 1st. Most other roads out there 2nd and 3rd... While I love a manual transmission sports car, I dont get the fascination people have with constantly shifting. Put the damn car in a gear and run it. I autox 99% of the time in 1st gear only.
And rain with wide tires is no big deal. Ive driven all of my wide body Corvette's in the rain, some times for hours. No big deal. TONS of people daily drive wide body corvette's in all kinds of conditions. Its not an issue.
I enjoy driving a car to the peak of its ability. That's where the fun and "drama" is. If that ability is too high for me to play with on the street (80 mph in 2nd gear, 1.1g's in a turn, etc. Then it's less fun to drive every day.
A Sentra has too little ability to be much fun. An SS 1LE or C7 Z06 isnt going to be much fun on the street either unless you're going out at 1-4a to risk getting arrested driving it in a manner that is fun.
Cars like the Genesis Coupe, 350/370z, hot hatches (Veloster N, Civic Type R) and similar (4T/V6 1LE Camaro - Lower-end Corvette?) Hit the sweet spot for fun daily and track driving for under $40k
I enjoy driving a car to the peak of its ability. That's where the fun and "drama" is. If that ability is too high for me to play with on the street (80 mph in 2nd gear, 1.1g's in a turn, etc. Then it's less fun to drive every day.
A Sentra has too little ability to be much fun. An SS 1LE or C7 Z06 isnt going to be much fun on the street either unless you're going out at 1-4a to risk getting arrested driving it in a manner that is fun.
Cars like the Genesis Coupe, 350/370z, hot hatches (Veloster N, Civic Type R) and similar (4T/V6 1LE Camaro - Lower-end Corvette?) Hit the sweet spot for fun daily and track driving for under $40k
Sorry havent replied in a few days because the forum was down for me.
Again, you are MOSTLY wrong about driving dynamics. My C7Z was the best car I have ever driven in any situation. manual with auto rev match, mag ride suspension, e-diff rear end, fantastic stability control system... damn that car did WHATEVER you wanted it to do. You still seem fascinated and transfixed on these gear ratio's and what MPH gears run to, etc... but you fail to realize(because my guess is you have experience in exactly ZERO of these cars you want to buy) that with 400+ ft. lbs. of torque you have plenty of power to be in 3rd or 4th gear when in a car with a lot less HP and TQ you HAVE TO work the gear box. My C7Z I used 1st on the street mainly to get away from a stop sign and VERY quickly shifted to 2nd or hell even 3rd a lot of the time. 500+ ft. lbs. of torque just off idle makes that possible.
And I LOVE having a car I KNOW I can push up over 1g on a corner because I know there is a ton of safety margin. Lets say a 370z can hold .8g in a corner(I have no clue what they can do honestly) and the Corvette will hold 1.2... The Corvette is a lot more comfortable to drive at .7 or .8g through a corner KNOWING you have more, where as a 370z at that same .8 is at the razor edge. I never in all my years of driving Corvettes thought "I wish I was in something with less HP, worse suspension, smaller tires, etc... because well, ****, this just isnt fun driving the car at ONLY 7/10's"... I HAVE been in cars like S2000 and Miata's and 370z's where I WISHED I had another 200hp, wider tires, etc...
Good luck in your search. You seem to have convinced yourself to buy something(v6 camaro 1le) that everybody with real experience in these cars is telling you not to get. Most are also telling you what to get and why and you are ignoring the advice because you have your head buried in the sand about buying a V6 Camaro and why its better than a Corvette. Let me know when you get your V6 Camaro and ill bring my beater 2002 Z06 down and we will go do a track day and you'll learn quickly why Corvette is held in such high regard.
WTF are you talking about? To many problems in the c6? There are actually VERY VERY few issues with C6's, they are fairly bullet proof cars. Ive owned 3 of them, one of which my old man bought from me and he daily drives and takes long road trips in with my mom. Please list out these "to many problems to daily drive"...the list will be short...
And have you even driven ANY of these cars you are thinking of buying? Gear swap right off the bat? Going to require an ECU flash which could(even if just to adjust for rear gear change) void your warranty... oh not to mention the rear gear swap will likely void the entire powertrain warranty anyway. And ive driven PLENTY of C6's of all variety(LS2, LS3, LS7, manual, auto) and I never felt any of them needed a gear swap to lower gears. 400+ ft. lbs. of torque is A LOT in a 3300lb car. All manual C6's have a 3.42 rear end already and the Z51 has a 2.97 1st gear(shorter than a standard and Z06 box). You can get a C6 rear end done for $1000 if you just HAVE TO do gears(assuming the rear end doesnt need any bearings or anything else, just gears and new seals).
And if what Alex V says is true about the v6 camaro having a 4.40 1st gear THATS CRAZY SHORT...even with a 3.27(or whatever) rear end. My 02 Z06 has what is considered a "short" first gear and its a 2.97 with a 3.54 rear end... I wouldnt want to drive anything with a 4.40 1st gear and a 3.90 rear end... 1st would be utterly USELESS and you would end up starting in 2nd all the time...guarantee it.
I think you are talking in "theoreticals" vs. real world experience.
Okay, so I’m gonna have to say one thing here, if you never swapped gears on a LS anything Vette or FBody you don’t know what you’re missing.
When the car was stock and I started taking it to the track I blew the ring and pinion. Luckily I was friends with a guy who owned a Buick Pontiac GMC dealership in south jersey and he installed a set of 3:73s “under warrantee” lol. Going from 3:42 to 3:73 was a pretty good chance.
When I finally grenaded the 10-bolt I went to a Strange 12 bolt with 4:10s. By that time the car had a used heads and can setup, headers and so on making just under 400hp to the rear wheels. Changing to a 12 bolt with 4:10s took me from an 11.85 to a 11.32 ET because I was able to leave the line harder and it put me in the power band earlier.
Gearing the car wakes it up like nothing else.
Right now in that same car I have a 525RWHP solid roller heads and cam setup with 4:56 gears.
Trust me, a stock C6 6spd with 4:10s is AWESOME!
Okay, so I’m gonna have to say one thing here, if you never swapped gears on a LS anything Vette or FBody you don’t know what you’re missing.
When the car was stock and I started taking it to the track I blew the ring and pinion. Luckily I was friends with a guy who owned a Buick Pontiac GMC dealership in south jersey and he installed a set of 3:73s “under warrantee” lol. Going from 3:42 to 3:73 was a pretty good chance.
When I finally grenaded the 10-bolt I went to a Strange 12 bolt with 4:10s. By that time the car had a used heads and can setup, headers and so on making just under 400hp to the rear wheels. Changing to a 12 bolt with 4:10s took me from an 11.85 to a 11.32 ET because I was able to leave the line harder and it put me in the power band earlier.
Gearing the car wakes it up like nothing else.
Right now in that same car I have a 525RWHP solid roller heads and cam setup with 4:56 gears.
Trust me, a stock C6 6spd with 4:10s is AWESOME!
I dont believe I ever said a gear swap in and of itself was a bad thing, BUT in the context of the OP's complete and utter lack of experience with these cars and him thinking, before he has ever even driven one or has any appreciable seat time, he needs a gear swap, just based on what some gear vs. speed charts tell him, I think its a ridiculous conversation to be talking about gear swaps...
The c4 6spd runs GREAT with 4:10 gears. I'm going to put 3.90's in my C5Z when I have the diff rebuilt in a few weeks. IM not OPPOSED to gear swaps... But gear swaps due to education, experience, need, etc... are one thing. Gear swaps "because I read a chart" is just as bad as Rob S's "the chart" from years ago. There is a huge difference between "theory" and "reality"...
Coal Dragger
03-28-21, 17:17
The OP really wants an MX-5, or something similar. I don’t know why he’s stuck on a V6 Camaro.
He says he wants light weight, approachable limits on the street, and a power plant he can rev out and play with while not risking going to jail.
That is pretty much the design brief of a Mazda MX-5 or the Toyota 86.
I dont believe I ever said a gear swap in and of itself was a bad thing, BUT in the context of the OP's complete and utter lack of experience with these cars and him thinking, before he has ever even driven one or has any appreciable seat time, he needs a gear swap, just based on what some gear vs. speed charts tell him, I think its a ridiculous conversation to be talking about gear swaps...
The c4 6spd runs GREAT with 4:10 gears. I'm going to put 3.90's in my C5Z when I have the diff rebuilt in a few weeks. IM not OPPOSED to gear swaps... But gear swaps due to education, experience, need, etc... are one thing. Gear swaps "because I read a chart" is just as bad as Rob S's "the chart" from years ago. There is a huge difference between "theory" and "reality"...
I've changed to higher (numerically) axle gear sets in 5 cars. It is not new to me. I've owned and driven sporty cars for 25 years. NA, supercharged, nitrous, and engine sizes 6.6L to 3.8L.
Have driven and ridden but not owned a Corvette.
Although I've driven a 17+ Camaro SS manual and 17+ V6 auto Camaro I have not driven a late model V6 1LE Camaro.
You don't seem to understand some people do not care how fast you say you are. Miata trackers know they are slow yet have big smiles on their faces.
You do sound like one of those guys who talks game but either never tracks your cool ride because reasons or if you do ends up getting lapped by the group most sessions.
You can also check out the KIA K5 GT. They are assembled in Georgia.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210329/3a651daf0d6a129761b841296eebe062.jpg
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The OP really wants an MX-5, or something similar. I don’t know why he’s stuck on a V6 Camaro.
He says he wants light weight, approachable limits on the street, and a power plant he can rev out and play with while not risking going to jail.
That is pretty much the design brief of a Mazda MX-5 or the Toyota 86.
I've had a few cars of @3000-3400 lbs and 275-350 RWD and they fit the bill.
A Miata or T86 would have to be a spare vehicle because I dont want to commute in such a small car. Plus, those have less power than I like. (And room and storage)
But there arent that many newer cars like this anymore. They got more powerful and heavier.
What would really work is the Veloster N. But, it's a little ugly and FWD. (I can handle ugly) Cant rule it out though. Driven them twice and now have a Veloster R-Spec in the family. Fun, practical cars. 3000lbs 275 hp 280 lb ft, mechanical limited-slip, extra braking and cooling and .97g's in a turn. If it was RWD I'd already have one. It's as quick as the V6 Camaro.
You can also check out the KIA K5 GT. They are assembled in Georgia.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210329/3a651daf0d6a129761b841296eebe062.jpg
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Unfortunately there is probably no manual transmission for it and I prefer 2 doors.
But I'll check it out, thanks.
You don't seem to understand some people do not care how fast you say you are. Miata trackers know they are slow yet have big smiles on their faces.
You do sound like one of those guys who talks game but either never tracks your cool ride because reasons or if you do ends up getting lapped by the group most sessions.
I never ONCE stated "how fast I was" or anything like that, but I have a TON of seat time in Corvettes, Camaro SS's, Miata's, BMW M3's, S2000's and a few other types. Have no seat time in Porsche's because I cant justify the entry cost for what I would want(911 Turbo S). You have basically zero seat time in the cars you are interested in. Thats not a negative, but you keep talking in theoretical terms and looking at charts to base your buying decisions. My only point is "you need seat time" to determine if a gear change is warranted or not. If you go into something thinking "if I buy this I have to do XXX mod otherwise I wont enjoy the car" I would suggest you are looking at the wrong car. Same token, you keep looking at gear by MPH charts and think "damn that wont be fun because that gear runs to 90mph" yet you have no practical experience. Get some experience, drive the cars, then make mod decisions... Whats the motto of this website? "shoot the gun"... same thing applies here.
ETA: you also might want to look into if gears are even available for the cars you are looking at. Take the C6 Z06 for example... no gears but factory3.42's. Any gears that are other than the 3.42 are not Z06 sized gears, they are base model gears which can be installed in the housing, but are smaller and weaker. There was a company a few years ago supposed to be making 3.90's, but I never saw anything come of that(although to be fair I havent had a C6Z in 3-4 years so I dont keep up with what is gooing on there).
militarymoron
03-28-21, 22:09
I'm not a Camaro guy, but I went for a nice spirited mountain/canyon drive yesterday morning with a buddy who has a ZL1 1LE. First time I've checked one out closely. That thing's a beast and looks awesome. His buddy had the Alfa Romeo 4C Spider which looked like a blast to drive.
65490
Good video here of a guy enjoying his 3.27 to 3.70 gear swap. But it's a 2014 and I'm looking at a 2020/21.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XK6Dr2Eci84
2017+ SS manuals come with 3.73 gears. I dont know if they fit the rear of the V6 cars.
Doing more research I found other people wanting to change axle gears in these cars.
The problem is it's not as simple as a buying and installing a ring and pinion set.
The carrier itself has the ring gear welded to it. 😕🤔
The few who have have done this have found the "easiest" way to do this is a pain and more expensive than they thought.
They search to find a "donor" housing (often called a "pumpkin") and swap the whole thing. Then they deal with the different axles available, axle flanges, driveshaft flanges, cooling line mounting, and a couple other mechanical issues plus tuning so the speedo and other things work right.
That's alot of hassle for a new / like new car under warranty still.
Even Corvettes are simpler in this regard. No retune necessary to correct the speedo and fewer variations of parts.
Nightstalker865
04-04-21, 04:56
Doing more research I found other people wanting to change axle gears in these cars.
The problem is it's not as simple as a buying and installing a ring and pinion set.
The carrier itself has the ring gear welded to it. [emoji53][emoji848]
The few who have have done this have found the "easiest" way to do this is a pain and more expensive than they thought.
They search to find a "donor" housing (often called a "pumpkin") and swap the whole thing. Then they deal with the different axles available, axle flanges, driveshaft flanges, cooling line mounting, and a couple other mechanical issues plus tuning so the speedo and other things work right.
That's alot of hassle for a new / like new car under warranty still.
Even Corvettes are simpler in this regard. No retune necessary to correct the speedo and fewer variations of parts.
If you change the diff out in a Vette, you will have to make the adjustment in the ECU just like the Camaro to make sure the speedo is accurate.
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If you change the diff out in a Vette, you will have to make the adjustment in the ECU just like the Camaro to make sure the speedo is accurate.
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So that's another $500 for a tuner?
So that's another $500 for a tuner?
500-550 is close to a full tune. You might even be able to buy a single Vin suite of HP Tuners for less and do it yourself.
I just changed to a 28” tall tire when I went from 4:10s to 4:56s and the speedo is pretty much accurate.
500-550 is close to a full tune. You might even be able to buy a single Vin suite of HP Tuners for less and do it yourself.
I just changed to a 28” tall tire when I went from 4:10s to 4:56s and the speedo is pretty much accurate.
Thanks.
Instead of the V6 1LE the 4T 1LE might make more sense.
Randy Probst seemed excited to get his.
Far more power potential when the warranty is up. (Add boost, supporting mods) 3.27's work fine in that application.
And the car weighs even less, down to 3350 lbs.
Doesn't sound good, though. I haven't checked videos with aftermarket exhaust systems but I doubt any can save it from a poor auditory experience.
Haven't ruled out the Veloster N or used Corvette.
The last new car I bought was a Challenger Scat Pack. I was disappointed. Great looking / sounding car but didnt have the dynamics I wanted. Sold it after a year of barely driving it. It was kinda sad.
I'd test driven one but could only find an auto. Hated that transmission so I figured a stick would make it more fun. It did but it wasnt enough.
If you change the diff out in a Vette, you will have to make the adjustment in the ECU just like the Camaro to make sure the speedo is accurate.
not in a manual vette, at least not C5 or C6.
The speed sensor is in the diff housing and reads a reluctor wheel on the carrier.
An automatic is a different story as the speed sensor is in the trans.
not in a manual vette, at least not C5 or C6.
The speed sensor is in the diff housing and reads a reluctor wheel on the carrier.
An automatic is a different story as the speed sensor is in the trans.
Ah. Manuals only for me.
Looks like 1le being dropped from 4 and 6cyl models.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/you-can-reportedly-no-longer-option-the-1le-package-on-four-or-six-cylinder-camaros/ar-BB1fjIzh?li=BBnb4R5
Looks like 1le being dropped from 4 and 6cyl models.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/you-can-reportedly-no-longer-option-the-1le-package-on-four-or-six-cylinder-camaros/ar-BB1fjIzh?li=BBnb4R5
Doh!
Thanks. That's too bad. So now one has to find a used one or spend $50k + to get a track-ready Camaro.
Coal Dragger
04-05-21, 18:17
Ever consider a pre-owned Porsche Cayman?
Checks all the boxes and probably exceeds most of them.
Ever consider a pre-owned Porsche Cayman?
Checks all the boxes and probably exceeds most of them.
Would cost alot in repairs and maintenance I assume.
Coal Dragger
04-05-21, 21:59
Maybe.
Porsche’s have a reputation for being pretty well made cars, and they’re made to be flogged.
That said if and when something does break it is going to be costly to fix. Depending on your budget late models are still pricey.
Just a thought since there are plenty of them with manual transmissions, flat 6’s make beautiful sounds, lot’s of power for their size and love to rev. Plus they’re light cars with a superbly balanced chassis. A true sports car, not a pony car trying to be a sports car.
If it’s not a daily driver and you can afford to maintain an older mid to late 2000’s example it might be a good fit.
Came close to a purchase but...have ya'll checked the price on 305 / 30 / 20 tires?!
Not putting 15k a year on $450 tires. (Yea, each) Nor will I run cheap tires. (Looking at you, Sumitomo and Khumho)
Maybe.
Porsche’s have a reputation for being pretty well made cars, and they’re made to be flogged.
That said if and when something does break it is going to be costly to fix. Depending on your budget late models are still pricey.
Just a thought since there are plenty of them with manual transmissions, flat 6’s make beautiful sounds, lot’s of power for their size and love to rev. Plus they’re light cars with a superbly balanced chassis. A true sports car, not a pony car trying to be a sports car.
If it’s not a daily driver and you can afford to maintain an older mid to late 2000’s example it might be a good fit.
Thanks but yes, looking for a daily.
Currently considering:
Camaro SS 1LE ('19+)
- Heavy
Mustang Bullitt/PP1 ('19/'20)
-Heavy
Veloster N ('21+)
-FWD
Nissan Z ('22 but when?)
-???
Unfortunately it's not a good time to buy any vehicle unless it's new at MSRP. Everything is high.
To update, got a PP '19 5.0 Mustang manual with extremely low miles on it.
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