View Full Version : best lvpo for 600?
MrLegalAce777
03-22-21, 20:29
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x24 is what im looking at but want that razor reliability but cant afford the 1500 right now
Steiner p4xi you can get it at $650. It's in line with the vortex if not better but it is 2x less.
titsonritz
03-22-21, 21:39
Steiner p4xi you can get it at $650. It's in line with the vortex if not better but it is 2x less.
This is what I was thinking, the Vortex PST Viper I had was a bit of a pig but it was a Gen I.
Leupold has some in that price range, but for true 1x I'm wanting to say that SWFA is the only game in town that is generally universally respected in terms of durability.
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x24 is what im looking at but want that razor reliability but cant afford the 1500 right now
The viper gen 2 is 90% of the razor quality at 50% of the cost. 4x at 600 yards is not great unless you’re shooting e type silhouettes. The extra 2x is worth it.
Having had the p4xi and razors, if I needed another, I’d get a viper. They are plenty durable.
everready73
03-23-21, 11:00
PST 2 is probably the best option right now unless you want to go with the Steiner at 4x. Primary Arms is coming out with a 1-6 that is phillipine made this summer and i bet it will be pretty good. I like their reticles better than what is in the PST
Another option to consider if you can spend a little more is the Delta Stryker 1-6. It has gotten very good reviews but runs $720
https://sageratsafaris.com/the-optics-database/
Info on where scopes are made...
titsonritz
03-23-21, 12:43
https://sageratsafaris.com/the-optics-database/
Info on where scopes are made...
Country of origin information may not be 100% accurate, I purchased a couple of PA RDS that site stated were made in the P.I. but when I received them they were actually "Made in China". I was not pleased. My PST Viper II is made in the P.I.
PST Viper II 1-6x24 without question is the best <$600 right now. It is lighter than the original Razor II but it isn't light; everything else is does extremely well, however. Made in the PI but you can see the design is very similar to the Razor II.
Steiner was nice at it's lower price point but only being 1-4x, it's kind of hobbled, especially with so many 1-8s on the street.
PST Viper II 1-6x24 without question is the best <$600 right now. It is lighter than the original Razor II but it isn't light; everything else is does extremely well, however. Made in the PI but you can see the design is very similar to the Razor II.
Steiner was nice at it's lower price point but only being 1-4x, it's kind of hobbled, especially with so many 1-8s on the street.
The price point keeps climbing on the P4Xi, too. I wish I’d have bought more when they were on sale a few years ago.
The Steiner, I also like the Burris XTR II.
nadnklipsch
03-24-21, 01:17
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018307899?pid=851313
I just picked one of these up, obviously a few hundred bucks more; but it an amazing piece of glass. Blows away the Aimpoints and Strike Eagles I have. And if it Helps once the wife looked through the scope she wasn't upset about the price lol.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018307899?pid=851313
I just picked one of these up, obviously a few hundred bucks more; but it an amazing piece of glass. Blows away the Aimpoints and Strike Eagles I have. And if it Helps once the wife looked through the scope she wasn't upset about the price lol.
If you can, please post in the optics and mounts weight thread. 13oz, advertised.
nadnklipsch
03-24-21, 11:41
I didn't weigh it before mounting, but it is extremely lightweight. I had a Swampfox 1-10 to compare it to and it was definitely a noticeable difference. Combined with an Aero lightweight mount it is a winning setup.
m1a_scoutguy
03-24-21, 11:48
I have been watching this guy lately,, pretty cool & unbiased opinions! Worth a watch some really good info. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWL2TQa6Ug_qqj36AgPp2XA
https://youtu.be/llzHpMPOMhY
titsonritz
03-24-21, 14:07
Combined with an Aero lightweight mount it is a winning setup.
I use to one with a leopold Firedot and it was a very light setup, too light IMO. I seen them break and do not trust them for that may have to take some abuse.
Disappointed nobody has mentioned the Yetis' study on this issue yet....
nadnklipsch
03-24-21, 20:56
I'll have to look into that. I hadn't heard anything about them breaking.
titsonritz
03-24-21, 21:08
Disappointed nobody has mentioned the Yetis' study on this issue yet....
It in mentioned in the link below but I couldn't find it. Where would it be?
https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/best-ar-15-scopes-steve-yeti-fisher/
It in mentioned in the link below but I couldn't find it. Where would it be?
https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/best-ar-15-scopes-steve-yeti-fisher/
Well crap, he completely re did his website. He used to have it there. Basically the article you read has the high points---if you don't want to spend $1700, buy a PST or the Burris.
Personally, I went with the PST. His only real complaint about it was the weight.. its a good scope.
How is the eye relief and durability on the VX-6HD, and does it use that funky push-button thing Leupold used to use?
nadnklipsch
03-25-21, 11:41
How is the eye relief and durability on the VX-6HD, and does it use that funky push-button thing Leupold used to use?
Eye relief is good, don't have an exact measurement for you. As far as long term durability I have it on an AR-10 'pistol' with no complaints so far, but I haven't ran hundreds of rounds through it yet. After a lot of research it seems to get about the same reviews as the Razor. I personally am not a fan of the Razor reticle and like the horseshoe BDC, the dot in the center of the horseshoe is nice and small so you should be able to get some pretty good precision out of it. It is the funky push button for the illumination but it's very easy and quick to use. I don't know if they've changed how it operates but any firedot scopes I messed with while working at the gun store 10 years ago seemed to be a lot weirder, the push button on the VX-6 is a quick push to turn on and it's back to the previous brightness from when you turned it off. Now that it's warming up I should have the chance to run it at a bit longer distances to see how well I can get it dialed in.
nadnklipsch
03-25-21, 11:41
How is the eye relief and durability on the VX-6HD, and does it use that funky push-button thing Leupold used to use?
Eye relief is good, don't have an exact measurement for you. As far as long term durability I have it on an AR-10 'pistol' with no complaints so far, but I haven't ran hundreds of rounds through it yet. After a lot of research it seems to get about the same reviews as the Razor. I personally am not a fan of the Razor reticle and like the horseshoe BDC, the dot in the center of the horseshoe is nice and small so you should be able to get some pretty good precision out of it. It is the funky push button for the illumination but it's very easy and quick to use. I don't know if they've changed how it operates but any firedot scopes I messed with while working at the gun store 10 years ago seemed to be a lot weirder, the push button on the VX-6 is a quick push to turn on and it's back to the previous brightness from when you turned it off. Now that it's warming up I should have the chance to run it at a bit longer distances to see how well I can get it dialed in.
https://dsgarms.com/magnified-optics-kt-miqd30-vorpst-1607
$650 with QD Mount.
I have two of the Vortex Optics PST 1-4 Gen 1 scopes, and love them. I should have gotten a few more, while they aren't perfect, they are above and beyond wonderful at the price point.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/d36ef89c10f74bd7de378d2c55b5ffff/f52d24cef6712d8d-63/s1280x1920/069c007423115024e9e6a90b6aa3418dc26cadc9.jpg
Black_Sheep
03-25-21, 13:40
A Swampfox Arrowhead and a good mount would fit your budget.
Matt in TN
03-25-21, 14:19
How is the eye relief and durability on the VX-6HD, and does it use that funky push-button thing Leupold used to use?
I have an older VX6 Multigun on an AR10 with about 5,000 rds through it with no issues. Eye relief is good, glass is clear, and it's WAY lighter than the Vortex. Illum is "shake awake" so it's off until you pick it up. Not good for a trunk gun, but perfect for a home/competition gun.
As for "fragile" - I call BS. I'm very hard on it with 3-gun and centerfire biathlon competitions (almost 200k total of hardcore running/falling/crawling/obstacle course type stuff with the rifle bouncing on my back or dragged through the mud with me) in the worst weather out there and it's always held zero and never had an issue.
A Swampfox Arrowhead and a good mount would fit your budget.
Saw a Supersetca review on those today.
https://youtu.be/-FCNjykmEOo
turnburglar
03-25-21, 20:00
As for "fragile" - I call BS. I'm very hard on it with 3-gun and centerfire biathlon competitions (almost 200k total of hardcore running/falling/crawling/obstacle course type stuff with the rifle bouncing on my back or dragged through the mud with me) in the worst weather out there and it's always held zero and never had an issue.
If one dude on the internet has a problem with a piece of gear, and writes enough paragraphs about his sample size of one; it becomes firearms dogma. I feel like people saying brand X is weak need to come in with their own pictures.
I run a PSA based carbine with a Steiner P4xi held in an Aero mount. I don't have any problems; yet the internet would postulate this gun couldn't get through a case.
turnburglar
03-25-21, 20:01
double tap
I have two of the Vortex Optics PST 1-4 Gen 1 scopes, and love them. I should have gotten a few more, while they aren't perfect, they are above and beyond wonderful at the price point.
Has that been reintroduced? $280 at EuroOptic? (https://www.eurooptic.com/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-rifle-scope-tmcq-mrad-pst-14st-m.aspx)
Has that been reintroduced? $280 at EuroOptic? (https://www.eurooptic.com/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-rifle-scope-tmcq-mrad-pst-14st-m.aspx)
My understanding, and I could be totally wrong, was that they were brought back because demand was so high. However, I don't remember if it was just a one run deal, or if it is a current item. I would guess that at that price, it was a large one run thing. Like I said though, thats a guess.
Funny cause I was thinking of a cheap LPVO lately. I don't think its reintroduced. It's listed in their END-OF-LIFE PRODUCTS - PRICES REDUCED! section.
Funny cause I was thinking of a cheap LPVO lately. I don't think its reintroduced. It's listed in their END-OF-LIFE PRODUCTS - PRICES REDUCED! section.
I thought they were out for awhile, but maybe not. Either that or VO found a few more crates of them piled up somewhere.
They were brought back as the Vortex Ranger. It's on their site and listed as "limited distribution".
I had a couple of the gen I scopes a few years back and there's a lot I liked about them, especially the size & weight. The illumination is not daylight bright but it didn't matter since the reticle was very easy to see. I wish they could shrink the current Viper Gen II 1-6 closer to the old 1-4 size and weight.
https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-ranger-1-4x24-riflescope.html
I’m experimenting with a Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x. Crazy light. But…that little magnification does throw me off dry firing; I have to see what it is like at the range. Not sure if I’ll keep it. But 11.5 oz…
I picked up a Trijicon Accupoint TR24 for a great price. It’s at Trijicon now for a tritium refresh. That looked far and away better at 1x, and the German #4 reticle may grown on me.
Considering their age, they are both great for what they are, and a good deal if you can find a lightly used one for slightly more than the PST 1-4.
I’m experimenting with a Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x. Crazy light. But…that little magnification does throw me off dry firing; I have to see what it is like at the range. Not sure if I’ll keep it. But 11.5 oz…
I picked up a Trijicon Accupoint TR24 for a great price. It’s at Trijicon now for a tritium refresh. That looked far and away better at 1x, and the German #4 reticle may grown on me.
Considering their age, they are both great for what they are, and a good deal if you can find a lightly used one for slightly more than the PST 1-4.
Thats what I run. Great weight and motion-on sold me.
If you can ignore the image up close, the red dot can act as an occluded dot. I did a match with one and it was dim. Ill have to change the battery and try again but with practice it can get fast. The eyebox to see the dot is enormous.
I’m experimenting with a Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x. Crazy light. But…that little magnification does throw me off dry firing; I have to see what it is like at the range. Not sure if I’ll keep it. But 11.5 oz…
I picked up a Trijicon Accupoint TR24 for a great price. It’s at Trijicon now for a tritium refresh. That looked far and away better at 1x, and the German #4 reticle may grown on me.
Considering their age, they are both great for what they are, and a good deal if you can find a lightly used one for slightly more than the PST 1-4.
I have a 1-6 with a German reticle, and its a crap shoot for me even after having it for years... Sometimes its good, other times I wonder if its a waste of an 1-6 using that reticle.
I have a 1-6 with a German reticle, and its a crap shoot for me even after having it for years... Sometimes its good, other times I wonder if its a waste of an 1-6 using that reticle.
I found this article at least interesting.
https://thenewrifleman.com/why-the-german-4-still-rocks/
I found this article at least interesting.
https://thenewrifleman.com/why-the-german-4-still-rocks/
Great pics to showcase their cause. I don't particularly think it is quite as wonderful as they imagine, but their points are solid in the cases they give.
I’m experimenting with a Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x. Crazy light. But…that little magnification does throw me off dry firing; I have to see what it is like at the range. Not sure if I’ll keep it. But 11.5 oz…
I picked up a Trijicon Accupoint TR24 for a great price. It’s at Trijicon now for a tritium refresh. That looked far and away better at 1x, and the German #4 reticle may grown on me.
Considering their age, they are both great for what they are, and a good deal if you can find a lightly used one for slightly more than the PST 1-4.
Can I ask the cost of refreshing the tritium?
Andy
Can I ask the cost of refreshing the tritium?
Andy
RMA accepted, waiting on a quote now
I have the 1-4 Trij with German Reticle. The reticle was designed originally for shooting driven game in heavy/dark timber- which it did pretty well.
I always found it very quick at shorter range, but “coarse”.
Using tip of Triangle I had no problem with torso sized targets to 300+ yds, but it certainly is not a precision optic for moderate distances.
burris rt6, prove me wrong:)
burris rt6, prove me wrong:)I got one for my Troy 308 PAR. Still need to go and play with it.
Sent from my SM-S901E using Tapatalk
burris rt6, prove me wrong:)
Man. This thing is a Burris. I ran it briefly to test the Minnies Machine SOCOM barrel, and it was ok within the limits of the LPVO realm.
https://i.imgur.com/6yYHvpD.jpg
Man. This thing is a Burris. I ran it briefly to test the Minnies Machine SOCOM barrel, and it was ok within the limits of the LPVO realm.
https://i.imgur.com/6yYHvpD.jpg
I look at the discussion this way;
Burris is built like a tank, ss inards and aluminum like most lpvos
glass i pretty clear for price point
ranging lines up with reticle, very easy and quick
smallest lpvo in class
true 1x
full eye box
less than 375, punches way above the belt and compared to more expensive options.....can't be beat imho
less than 375, punches way above the belt and compared to more expensive options.....can't be beat imho
Paying much more than that for the limited ability of the LPVO is dumb money in my opinion. The Nightforce is a great scope, but really the reticle is too fat for precision at 600+.
Defaultmp3
07-26-23, 10:35
The Nightforce is a great scope, but really the reticle is too fat for precision at 600+.0.2 mrad dot is too fat for precision at 600?
Paying much more than that for the limited ability of the LPVO is dumb money in my opinion. The Nightforce is a great scope, but really the reticle is too fat for precision at 600+.
that's how I look at as well. My only complaint is the reticle could a little brighter but it's size, weight, and true 1x with full eyebox is great for 'red dot' type and if you need to open it up, the rt6 does that fine. I liked the older mtac 1-4s, truly built like tanks. I had 2 that I utterly destroyed (have pics somewhere) over the years they never faltered. I've one rt6 that I have beat up on a bit, not like the mtacs, and it's still trumping along. I don't think you get that until you pay much more, certainly not with the strike eagles, steiners etc. Burris makes them tough
0.2 mrad dot is too fat for precision at 600?
Not the turret. The NF 1-8s we run have a really fat round thing reticle going on. Even when shooting groups we'll use a different part of the reticle to aim on paper because the center portion is too imprecise.
Defaultmp3
07-26-23, 11:07
Not the turret. The NF 1-8s we run have a really fat round thing reticle going on. Even when shooting groups we'll use a different part of the reticle to aim on paper because the center portion is too imprecise.Current Nightforce NX8 and ATACR LPVOs all have a 0.2 mrad center dot. The old reticle with the 0.35 mrad center dot has been phased out for a few years now.
Current Nightforce NX8 and ATACR LPVOs all have a 0.2 mrad center dot. The old reticle with the 0.35 mrad center dot has been phased out for a few years now.
Not sure about the center dot, but it's those goofy donut segments that occlude your view at distance. And when you come of a Mil B reticle in a ATACR scope, it's painful. I'm not pooping on the Scope. But when you're trying to hit a 6" flapper at 750 yards, the reticle is sub-optimal to say the least.
Defaultmp3
07-26-23, 11:44
Not sure about the center dot, but it's those goofy donut segments that occlude your view at distance. And when you come of a Mil B reticle in a ATACR scope, it's painful. I'm not pooping on the Scope. But when you're trying to hit a 6" flapper at 750 yards, the reticle is sub-optimal to say the least.This is the current FC-DMx reticle, don't really see how it would be an issue:
https://cdn.nightforceoptics.com/wp-content/uploads/Reticle_Images/NF_FC-DMx.png
Beyond that, using an LPVO to hit 6" targets at 750 yards isn't really what I think most proponents of LPVOs would say is in an LPVO's wheelhouse.
Those donut chunks are nothing like the real sight picture on the 1-8s we run. They're black and 3 times as thick. I wish I had a real pic of the reticle against the 750 target. It's unpleasant.
Here's a real world (borrowed) snip of the pain of the reticle. (now picture trying a precise shot at even further)
https://i.imgur.com/KbHd3x4.jpg
Defaultmp3
07-26-23, 11:59
Those donut chunks are nothing like the real sight picture on the 1-8s we run. They're black and 3 times as thick. I wish I had a real pic of the reticle against the 750 target. It's unpleasant.
Here's a real world (borrowed) snip of the pain of the reticle. (now picture trying a precise shot at even further)
https://i.imgur.com/KbHd3x4.jpgRight, that's the old FC-DM reticle, which as been phased out for a couple of years now. Having of owned ATACRs with both, the FC-DM was certainly less than optimal for taking extremely precise shots, while the FC-DMx is better in that regard, while still retaining high usability at close range, particularly with illumination. That being said, at range, I didn't see the issue, as I'm not dialing, and I don't really think that's how most people would want to use an LPVO anyway, so I'm using the Christmas tree anyway.
I'm not dialing, and I don't really think that's how most people would want to use an LPVO anyway, so I'm using the Christmas tree anyway.
True. 750 is on the far end of the practical reach of LPVOville. I'll use the tree sometimes out to 500 yards because those come ups are in my head. But the scope does have enough dial up to go way beyond 750, so we use it that way on occasion.
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