View Full Version : Public Service Announcement
Anyone see SOTAR's public service announcement?
The gist of it was to stop buying AR stuff and ammo unless its an emergency because QC is the worst its ever been.
99cobra2881
03-23-21, 18:27
The thought has definitely crossed my mind when I have ordered parts lately.
In the last year or so Ive purchased three Giessele receiver extensions and not one of them is identical.
ViperTwoSix
03-23-21, 18:54
School of the American Rifle (SOTAR)
School of the American Rifle (SOTAR)
That guy is awesome, I'm not a subscriber but I've been watching his stuff hear and there and I've learned a few things.
The thought didn't cross my mind about ar parts but it did about ammo.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess he's probably right. Maybe to the point of stating the obvious. I've just been hearing about the strangest things failing lately. Things that have never failed in the past, even on cheap ARs. Granted you're bound to hear about that stuff occasionally, but it seems every time someone posts a failure lately on some forum everyone is like, Well that's a new one!
That guy is awesome, I'm not a subscriber but I've been watching his stuff hear and there and I've learned a few things.
The thought didn't cross my mind about ar parts but it did about ammo.
I can see how people that struggle with basic spelling might be able learn from him.
Manofmayhem
03-23-21, 19:16
^Ouch.
All the more reason to stick with quality parts from quality companies.
I can see how people that struggle with basic spelling might be able learn from him.
That seems like a quality addition to the conversation.
Anyway, I heard tell ‘bout this sort of sichuation back in the late aughts or post-Newtown. To echo Clint, it seems like a good time to be very careful what companies you buy from.
If your "contribution" to a thread is to criticize spelling, don't bother.
Leave it alone and drive on.
titsonritz
03-23-21, 20:46
I can see how people that struggle with basic spelling might be able learn from him.
Technically that would be grammar, there is nothing wrong with the spelling.
I just bought some parts from FCD, I'm not concerned one bit.
All the more reason to stick with quality parts from quality companies.
You nailed it.
Those 'quality companies' are not going to risk a reputation for a quick buck when demand is high by cutting back on QC.
Prices may go up but quality never goes down...
What is "SOTAR"?This guy.
https://youtu.be/DTpWfjVFfEU
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
bamashooter
03-24-21, 07:39
Anyone see SOTAR's public service announcement?
The gist of it was to stop buying AR stuff and ammo unless its an emergency because QC is the worst its ever been.
I read his complete statement on his FB page. Your paraphrasing is correct. IMO he presents no evidence to support his claim. Without evidence, I see him as just another "smith" / individual who wants to keep his internet "thing" going with unfounded comments such as he spewed. He may have acceptable knowledge and skills however that doesn't give him license to paint the industry with a broad brush.
What I find peculiar in his post is one of his later comments where he states he's so damn busy and "completely burned out" that he wishes folks would go to one of his other groups within FB / sites to ask their questions. Really? To be so busy, he sure spends a lot of time on FB. Poor pitiful him. What's next, a tool kit emblazed with his likeness and signature for sale in the back of American Rifleman?
You nailed it.
Those 'quality companies' are not going to risk a reputation for a quick buck when demand is high by cutting back on QC.
Prices may go up but quality never goes down...
Somebody here has said "go with a proven performer" Good advice anytime, anyplace.
SOTAR is definitely not just another smith. He doesn’t recommend brands or trash them. It’s all about the specs and parts are in spec or they’re not. The majority don’t even know what the specs are or have the gauges for measuring.
I've had more issues with gun related components in the past year than I have in the previous nine years prior combined..
LMT (Multiple times)
Surefire (Multiple times)
Unity Tactical (Multiple times)
Colt
Magpul
Aimpoint
There are at least three or four other brands I've forgot about. All are known good quality brands. All were new parts bought from reliable vendors, and were defective out of the box. (All of the companies involved did take care of the issues though, so nothing bad in that regard).
Is that just by chance? I'm not the only one I personally know that's had issues with known quality manufacturers products lately either.. so in my experience there is definitely truth to SOTAR's statement.
It's 2021.
If you expect what you order to be free of issues, arrive on time, be the correct item you ordered, or be below MSRP... than you are likely in for a surprise. If you've ordered a lot in the past year and haven't had issues, go buy a lottery ticket..
Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
the AR-15 Junkie
03-24-21, 13:23
I read his complete statement on his FB page. Your paraphrasing is correct. IMO he presents no evidence to support his claim. Without evidence, I see him as just another "smith" / individual who wants to keep his internet "thing" going with unfounded comments such as he spewed. He may have acceptable knowledge and skills however that doesn't give him license to paint the industry with a broad brush.
What I find peculiar in his post is one of his later comments where he states he's so damn busy and "completely burned out" that he wishes folks would go to one of his other groups within FB / sites to ask their questions. Really? To be so busy, he sure spends a lot of time on FB. Poor pitiful him. What's next, a tool kit emblazed with his likeness and signature for sale in the back of American Rifleman?
In the past 2 weeks he has posted on his facebook page 2 posts "hoping someone dies" (I have captured screen shots of both) the first was an armorer who he disagrees with on staking, stating he hopes that man dies and the other who suggested should die was suggesting to using a punch to mark a cam pin to avoid buying one factory done, he posted a video clip from Tombstone stating he hope he died.
In my opinion this man has serious mental issues, no I am not a licensed doctor, but I dont need a degree in meteorology either to know when its raining outside.
In the past 2 weeks he has posted on his facebook page 2 posts "hoping someone dies" (I have captured screen shots of both) the first was an armorer who he disagrees with on staking, stating he hopes that man dies and the other who suggested should die was suggesting to using a punch to mark a cam pin to avoid buying one factory done, he posted a video clip from Tombstone stating he hope he died.
In my opinion this man has serious mental issues, no I am not a licensed doctor, but I dont need a degree in meteorology either to know when its raining outside.
I recall earlier in the year on Youtube I wanna say where he had some kind of "mea culpa" and said he would try much harder to be a better person or some such, sorry if he had offended/hurt people by his actions..... So apparently, a long term thing.....But, I do enjoy his videos and I think he's pretty brand agnostic though favoring those with a proven record of tight quality controls.....
In the past 2 weeks he has posted on his facebook page 2 posts "hoping someone dies" (I have captured screen shots of both) the first was an armorer who he disagrees with on staking, stating he hopes that man dies and the other who suggested should die was suggesting to using a punch to mark a cam pin to avoid buying one factory done, he posted a video clip from Tombstone stating he hope he died.
In my opinion this man has serious mental issues, no I am not a licensed doctor, but I dont need a degree in meteorology either to know when its raining outside.
That is pretty out there...
He is a 'cat' person though so some crazy is to be expected. LOL! :)
From what I have seen of his videos he is really good at pointing out potential problems / stuff not in 'spec' but I have not seen him 'correcting' very many parts to put them back into 'spec'.
The guy is on the forum here when people aren’t saying stupid stuff. SOTAR is the only reason I keep a Facebook account, if usually deactivated.
Didn’t Pressburg shoot his b-in-law, Haley had a NG, Cowden said mean things, etc etc. People aren’t perfect, and things can be taken out of context.
"QC is the worst it's ever been".
Well, if that's so color me oh so NOT surprised.
Its been a year+ long gun rush, and the demand has ramped UP as time went on, not down.
Prices are going up and away on a lot of things, so yeah my bet is a lot of manufacturers are tossing everything out the door they can.
Remember post-Newtown 2013? And the obvious QC dips people found as that mad rush unfolded? Some companies like PSA never quite recovered from that.
So yeah, things are getting sketchy, why wouldn't they? Ammo production is backed up for how long now- like years at this point?
An instructor I knew and some related folks had several KBs lately with recent ammo purchases. Granted it was some brand I've never heard of, but that just makes the point- people are going to take whatever is available, cuz that's all there is. Kinda like '13 when literally the only ammo left anywhere was Tula... and some other off-brand I can't remember for the life of me.
I can see how people that struggle with basic spelling might be able learn from him.
I WILL NOT FEED THE TROLLS
EDIT BY MARK5PT56
KNOCK IT OFF-KEEP IT ON TOPIC
I put up an ugly post. I'll try to be a better person today.
All the more reason to stick with quality parts from quality companies.
It really is that simple. Each time we go through this, we know quality gets flushed as companies run machines as quick as possible to get money while they can.
People who wait for “deals” are buying no name excess junk, and then complaining if and when they try using the parts.
Stick with well known companies. They are the ones who have standards and won’t be buying from the reject bins.
Off parts are nothing new. If you bought enough stuff before todays current demand you would run into off parts. No worse now than before.
Off parts are nothing new. If you bought enough stuff before todays current demand you would run into off parts. No worse now than before.
With all due respect, I think you are crazy.
An instructor I knew and some related folks had several KBs lately with recent ammo purchases. Granted it was some brand I've never heard of, but that just makes the point- people are going to take whatever is available, cuz that's all there is. Kinda like '13 when literally the only ammo left anywhere was Tula... and some other off-brand I can't remember for the life of me.
I’ve gone through a few brands of Eastern European 9mm over the last couple months that I previously hadn’t heard of before. Had one weak round which failed to cycle the slide in a G17, but otherwise it all shot okay. But I was kinda bracing myself for trouble, that’s for sure.
the AR-15 Junkie
03-25-21, 11:56
I just picked up 2 Centurion Arms Lower Receivers on a whim I saw in a LGS last week, both are perfect. Should I have walked away from those because "someone" said quality is bad industry wide and don't buy anything?
All the more reason to stick with quality parts from quality companies.
This, 100%. Stick with the companies that know QA/QC and have good reputations of customer service. If something does slip through, they'll take care of you.
With all due respect, I think you are crazy.
Why the hate? I imagine any respect you have is reserved for yourself and no one else. Not able to just disagree?
I will gives just some examples of off parts I received before the current situation. Firing pin retaining pins clipped off on the ends instead of rounded and sloped, an upper receiver with the gas tube hole higher than spec making alignment without binding impossible, a gas tube that the metal was so soft you could tie it in a knot and never crimp the tube, bolts with the support ring .003" below minimum, barrel extensions that came loose under less the max value for barrel installation, hammers with incorrect geometry at the trigger notch, triggers with the pin hole off in relation to the top surface of at the nose, hammer below minimum width between the pin entrances, bolts with the ejector retaining pin through one side and the other end mashed up inside the channel for the ejector, a lower receiver with the trigger holes located incorrectly, bolt with metal debris in the ejector hole and the ejector would not seat flush, over sized when measured selector detent that was over sized for both diameters, lower with the take down and pivot holes too low where any upper would stop on an angle before closing fully, and on and on. Nothing new about off parts.
ChattanoogaPhil
03-26-21, 09:17
I hadn't purchased anything since the panic began a year ago, but in the last two weeks I've purchased a BCM BCG from Primary Arms $189 plus shipping, and a Palmetto MOE ECM complete lower $219 free shipping. Palmetto lower is for a dedicated CMMG .22 upper. Fit is excellent and so is the finish. ECM trigger is quite smooth for a GI trigger. Heck, they even staked the castle nut. BCM is what you'd expect.
Do you guys realize that outside of the 20 people in this thread almost no one shoots more than 50-100 rounds a year? It doesn’t matter.
titsonritz
03-26-21, 13:46
Why the hate? I imagine any respect you have is reserved for yourself and no one else. Not able to just disagree?
I will gives just some examples of off parts I received before the current situation. Firing pin retaining pins clipped off on the ends instead of rounded and sloped, an upper receiver with the gas tube hole higher than spec making alignment without binding impossible, a gas tube that the metal was so soft you could tie it in a knot and never crimp the tube, bolts with the support ring .003" below minimum, barrel extensions that came loose under less the max value for barrel installation, hammers with incorrect geometry at the trigger notch, triggers with the pin hole off in relation to the top surface of at the nose, hammer below minimum width between the pin entrances, bolts with the ejector retaining pin through one side and the other end mashed up inside the channel for the ejector, a lower receiver with the trigger holes located incorrectly, bolt with metal debris in the ejector hole and the ejector would not seat flush, over sized when measured selector detent that was over sized for both diameters, lower with the take down and pivot holes too low where any upper would stop on an angle before closing fully, and on and on. Nothing new about off parts.
Where were those parts/guns from?
titsonritz
03-26-21, 13:46
damn double tap
Do you guys realize that outside of the 20 people in this thread almost no one shoots more than 50-100 rounds a year? It doesn’t matter.
That's what makes me laugh about so much of the nitpicking here and elsewhere....... Karl Rehn of KR Training is a super smart dude, spent most of his life working- 24 years as an Engineer, on military contracts through Texas A&M University. He estimates, based on actual data, that less than 10,000 people in the ENTIRE UNITED STATES, drives the whole "TRAINING INDUSTRY".....
All the Trainers all the High End gear Makers etc...are chasing the same tiny number of people. Sure, you get some people with more money than sense etc...that will buy stuff but the vast majority of Hard Use Gear etc...is sold to a TINY, MINISCULE, number of people.
titsonritz
03-30-21, 14:10
That's what makes me laugh about so much of the nitpicking here and elsewhere....... Karl Rehn of KR Training is a super smart dude, spent most of his life working- 24 years as an Engineer, on military contracts through Texas A&M University. He estimates, based on actual data, that less than 10,000 people in the ENTIRE UNITED STATES, drives the whole "TRAINING INDUSTRY".....
All the Trainers all the High End gear Makers etc...are chasing the same tiny number of people. Sure, you get some people with more money than sense etc...that will buy stuff but the vast majority of Hard Use Gear etc...is sold to a TINY, MINISCULE, number of people.
Doesn't that make me a minority? Where's my free shit and special rights? :jester:
Doesn't that make me a minority? Where's my free shit and special rights? :jester:
Oh you have rights, you just won't like them.
1. You have the right to have your rights threatened by the masses and elected idiots on a regular basis.
2. You have the right to pay stupid amounts of money for MULTI CAM products labeled "TACTICAL"
3. You have the right to wait and wait and wait for companies in the "gun industry" to actually PRODUCE and SHIP products.
What did I miss?
He estimates, based on actual data, that less than 10,000 people in the ENTIRE UNITED STATES, drives the whole "TRAINING INDUSTRY".....
All the Trainers all the High End gear Makers etc...are chasing the same tiny number of people. Sure, you get some people with more money than sense etc...that will buy stuff but the vast majority of Hard Use Gear etc...is sold to a TINY, MINISCULE, number of people.
A truism across fields of just about everything: 10% of the people use 90% of the resources.
Do you guys realize that outside of the 20 people in this thread almost no one shoots more than 50-100 rounds a year? It doesn’t matter.
I wonder how many rounds per year the average AR enthusiast really shoots.
Andy
chamber143
03-30-21, 18:44
I wonder how many rounds per year the average AR enthusiast really shoots.
Andy
I would guess 250. Only reason I shoot more is through classes I take 2-3 a year and 1000 a pop per class. I may shoot 4k a year. But not this year. I may not shoot a damn round outside the 1 class o have planned this year. Shits insane and it don’t look like it’s gonna get a bit better.
Yeah, we cant really count the last year, unfortunately. I haven't shot nearly as much as normal.
I think your 250 round average is a good number. Lots of shooters like my son, too who are just too busy hustling to shoot a lot.
Andy
Ned Christiansen
04-02-21, 07:53
Well the last couple buying frenzies brought us carriers with rough bores that eat gas rings, carrier keys with rough inner diameters that eat gas tubes, carrier profiles that are faceted instead of rounded. The last is not a problem, in fact it seems a pretty sensible alternative to the regular full-round profile and a logical economizing of the machining process-- but I never saw it until maybe 2013, I don't really remember the exact time frame and what the scare was, but poof, there they were. I think the buying surges also bring us more barrels with improper chambers as the manufacturers have to start scrounging more for barrels (conjecture).
I didn't see the SOTAR warning but I would agree that it is a good time to be on the alert for sub-standard parts.
One thing for sure. When demand surges, QA does not usually track upward with it on a parallel line.
I would guess 250. Only reason I shoot more is through classes I take 2-3 a year and 1000 a pop per class. I may shoot 4k a year. But not this year. I may not shoot a damn round outside the 1 class o have planned this year. Shits insane and it don’t look like it’s gonna get a bit better.
I bet the average is lower than that. Id bet big money that most ARs get shot once a year or less, especially after the first year of ownership.
I wonder how many rounds per year the average AR enthusiast really shoots.
Andy
I think the only problem with your question is it isn't being asked in the right forum. IMO most here are not average gun owners. That question might yield a better answer if asked on the "I only shoot one box of ammo/year" forum...
I wonder how many rounds per year the average AR enthusiast really shoots.
Andy
I think the only problem with your question is it isn't being asked in the right forum. IMO most here are not average gun owners. That question might yield a better answer if asked on the "I only shoot one box of ammo/year" forum...
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.