View Full Version : If You Want Really Good Sushi...Don't Go To Japan...
So a close friend of mine just got back from two years abroad in Japan and Okinawa, worked out well for him since they were already wearing masks before the whole covid thing.
Spent the weekend as he traveled through the midwest visiting teachers, students and friends, he was there specifically to train with a few martial arts instructors who were the teachers of his teachers in the US.
Of all the things he told me about life in modern Japan, the one that shocked me most is the end of the family owned sushi bar. If you ever enjoyed sitting down at the refrigerated bar and ordering nigiri combos and made in front of you rolls that is now a mostly US thing as they are virtually extinct in Japan, especially Tokyo.
He was last there about 8 years ago and every single favored location was out of business. They have all largely been replaced with automats, you might recall we experimented with them in the 1950s where it's kind of like a coke machine but it's little glass doors with a lunch on a plate behind it, you put in your money like a vending machine and take out your plate or box in the case of most sushi.
To me it is probably the least appealing way to eat sushi, I don't even want a sandwhich that has been sitting out two hours (despite refrigeration) much less red tuna. But apparently the Japanese don't care. Corporate owned automats have driven out all the mom and pop counters and bars where a dedicated itamae expertly cuts premium grade fish and creates interesting rolls.
The only other surviving sushi restaurants are the exotic $1,000 a plate novelty locations where the super rich impress visiting tourists and business contacts.
In Okinawa they still have many quality seafood restaurants who will even make you sushi and sashimi (of course) but their cooked fish is generally so amazing most people don't bother.
He was of course stunned to discover that my small town in Iowa had just opened a pretty decent sushi bar that was exceptional by Iowa standards. He also brought me a giant PVC tube of custom made martial arts weapons as a gift so I'm pretty stoked even if I'm sad for the sushi fans in Japan.
Thankfully I don't think raw fish automats will ever fly in the US so our sushi bars should be pretty safe. But it will be painfully ironic if Japanese people travel to the US in order to get some decent sushi.
Another end of an era thing I thought I'd never see (or hear of).
Japanese food is usually disgusting. Sushi doubly so.
I did catch a taste for Southern Chinese/Vietnamese food that I just have to eat once in a while. Or Bulgogi.
But you can miss me all day with Sushi. I think it was on Rotten.com or somewhere years ago where some dude ended up with worms on his brain from eating that crap too much.
titsonritz
03-23-21, 20:54
They have all largely been replaced with automats, you might recall we experimented with them in the 1950s where it's kind of like a coke machine but it's little glass doors with a lunch on a plate behind it, you put in your money like a vending machine and take out your plate or box in the case of most sushi.
That's just gross. I have to see my sushi hand rolled, I won't even eat the packaged stuff you see in stores claiming to be fresh.
Japanese food is usually disgusting. Sushi doubly so.
I did catch a taste for Southern Chinese/Vietnamese food that I just have to eat once in a while. Or Bulgogi.
But you can miss me all day with Sushi. I think it was on Rotten.com or somewhere years ago where some dude ended up with worms on his brain from eating that crap too much.
If you just eat whatever raw fish, it can have bad consequences.
But I love fresh salmon and can knock that shit back all day.
titsonritz
03-23-21, 20:56
If you just eat whatever raw fish, it can have bad consequences.
But I love fresh salmon and can knock that shit back all day.
I'll mow down on yellowfin and bluefin.
I'll mow down on yellowfin and bluefin.
Those too. Just skip the roe, shrimp (basically cocktail shrimp), white fish and octopus.
titsonritz
03-23-21, 21:00
Those too. Just skip the roe, shrimp (basically cocktail shrimp), white fish and octopus.
Not much for uni either.
Japanese food is usually disgusting. Sushi doubly so.
I did catch a taste for Southern Chinese/Vietnamese food that I just have to eat once in a while. Or Bulgogi.
But you can miss me all day with Sushi. I think it was on Rotten.com or somewhere years ago where some dude ended up with worms on his brain from eating that crap too much.
Clearly you've never been to the Ramen Museum.
I didn’t find that to be the case when I was in Osaka in 2018. I was in a small town south of the city (Kaizuka), but even in Osaka proper, and Seki as well, there were some awesome sushi places. Definitely want to go back and do a food tour of Kyoto and Hiroshima (that place is amazing).
Sucks that people have given up on them in so many cities though.
Sent from 80ms in the future
I didn’t find that to be the case when I was in Osaka in 2018. I was in a small town south of the city (Kaizuka), but even in Osaka proper, and Seki as well, there were some awesome sushi places. Definitely want to go back and do a food tour of Kyoto and Hiroshima (that place is amazing).
Sucks that people have given up on them in so many cities though.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Either you got in on the end of a good thing or some smaller cities are being hold outs. Wouldn't surprise me to learn that Kyoto might hold onto their old ways.
There were no masks wearers in Japan when we were there 3 years ago. NONE!
There were no masks wearers in Japan when we were there 3 years ago. NONE!
Obviously you were not in Tokyo. And yeah you get outside the cities and it's not as common. I think most of the mask wearers in Tokyo are for the pollution. But there is also a practice that became very common after SARS and really dated back to the Spanish revolution.
hotrodder636
03-24-21, 06:02
This is all horribly sad to read. I love sitting and watching the artistry that goes into making sushi.
Steyr, interested to see the contents of the PVC tube.
You know that's not food right? It's bait. ;)
Seriously though, I've had plenty of sushi and sashimi. It's just not enough food for me to call a meal though. More like an appetizer unless I'm willing to spend a LOT.
Oki seafood is just the best, the end. Some of the best food in Asian countries is from the street vendors. Only trouble is figuring out what you just ate so you can get it again.
Straight Shooter
03-24-21, 09:54
Speaking of the vending machines...when I was there in '86/'87...the machines there were light years ahead of anything Id ever seen in America. I can only imagine how theyve progressed, and Id love to find out. Any websites or places I could search for this that yall know of?
Forgive the subject drift please.
Another end of an era thing I thought I'd never see (or hear of).
So last time I was there 7 yrs ago, in 2014. I have many Japanese friends from high school and went over for a friends wedding. Sushi bar/restaurant and Sushi in general was far from dead but, I was also in Osaka, which is much more of foodie culture then Tokyo. I think your friend was more referring to how people eat, much like America, these automats are the McDonalds of Japan (off topic McDonalds is 1000% better in Japan, then in the US), but Japan has always been work/ movement oriented culture and the automats sort of underscore this, for better or for worse. Sushi places and other restaurants have become more and more expensive because people are taking the time to sit and eat, and thus they are scene as more of a luxury commodity.
Heard on local talk radio this morning that apparently there is a restaurant in Thailand offering free sushi. You have to change your name to sushi or the restaurants name or something. Anyways that’s always an option for you guys. Move to Thailand, change name and eat for free.
Adrenaline_6
03-24-21, 12:40
Those too. Just skip the roe, shrimp (basically cocktail shrimp), white fish and octopus.
Octopus (tako) is awesome. Especially prepared Karaage style or smoked (pulehu) style. Blows Calamari out of the water.
The conveyor belt sushi restaurant (like Genki Sushi) is good too. They continuously make the most popular styles and put them on the belt and you just grab them off the belt when they pass by. If you don't see a particular one you want, they still have a menu you can order from and they will make it. The outer ring color of the plate is the cost of the dish. When your done, they count up the plates and colors and tally them up and you pay on your way out. Awesome.
They also have a machine that makes mini sushi "blanks". What it does is automatically roll the rice and wrap the nori (seaweed) around the the rice roll but the nori is taller than the rice roll so there is nori sticking up over the top which makes a "nori cup" on the top of the rice. They just spoon in the spicy tuna, etc in the "cup" and boom....done.
i.e: https://www.oh-soyummy.com/files/styles/picture_wide/public/5/photos/genki4.jpg
https://www.genkisushi.com.my/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/11/5310000005-Salmon-Roe-gunkan_300x300.jpg
titsonritz
03-24-21, 14:23
Octopus (tako) is awesome. Especially prepared Karaage style or smoked (pulehu) style. Blows Calamari out of the water.
It's OK but if going down that texture road I'll take abalone.
titsonritz
03-24-21, 14:26
You know that's not food right? It's bait. ;)
I have a buddy that use to say that until I took him to a decent place and made him try it, now he's a fiend for most of it.
Adrenaline_6
03-24-21, 15:08
It's OK but if going down that texture road I'll take abalone.
Love abalone too. Thinly sliced is the way to go.
If tako is prepared right, the texture isn't that chewy, but if it isn't...not so good. I get why some people get turned off by it if they get some crappy stuff.
Love abalone too. Thinly sliced is the way to go.
If tako is prepared right, the texture isn't that chewy, but if it isn't...not so good. I get why some people get turned off by it if they get some crappy stuff.
Ceviche with abalone, octopus, damn. Now I'm hungry for it. Utah sucks for good seafood of any variety.
This is all horribly sad to read. I love sitting and watching the artistry that goes into making sushi.
Steyr, interested to see the contents of the PVC tube.
Noting exotic, bo, bokken, some nunchaku etc. Just hand made wood weapon that were made to function as weapons rather than decorations and properly balanced, etc.
The vending machines are nuts there for sure. And it’s the most caffeinated country I’ve ever been in. I could get a decent hot canned latte from the vending machine at the train station.
And yeah, I’m pretty sure Osaka and the surrounding area are way into their food. Even the grab and go at the 7-11 was at least as good as Chic-fil-a.
Hiroshima is nuts because when you walk around you realize that EVERYTHING is new. And their local culture seems bent on going forward as well. Lots of cool art and fashion. And their local specialty is okonomiyaki. Think of the ultimate drunk/munchie food, and you’re getting close - noodle, veg, meat pancake with an awesome sauce. They just started showing up here in LA. Very happy camper.
Also got to like Japanese whiskey while there. Met a guy who had a 10-seat bar. Would hang out there after doing my stuff during the day, smoking cigars, drinking Hibiki and listening to his jazz on vinyl. Good times.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Fresh Green Herring from the Atlantic in the Netherlands with a bit of diced white onion is awesome! The Atlantic saltwater on them is just right and oh so good!
Some of the best sushi in the world is from Maui :)
Used to get it but not a fan I really only like Sashimi
But I keep reading watching some videos of great sushi houses still in existence I do not know if its in Tokyo so not disagreeing just know they exist so going to have to notice where they are when watching :)
but they do say many do not want to learn the old way and I am sure they are on a decline in some of the large cities as you heard since so many youth are abandoning the old ways and swarming to cities with the style of life they live Etc. And many of the great things they used to do are becoming scarce sadly
Kinda sad to see any country loose its roots
When I get a chance to go live there for a year my end goal will be more of the older towns and not the cities :)
Jiro Dreams was a good show on Netflix :)
Fresh Green Herring from the Atlantic in the Netherlands with a bit of diced white onion is awesome! The Atlantic saltwater on them is just right and oh so good!
As many times as I’ve been through there I have yet to be able to try that.
Adrenaline_6
03-25-21, 14:57
Fresh Green Herring from the Atlantic in the Netherlands with a bit of diced white onion is awesome! The Atlantic saltwater on them is just right and oh so good!
Interesting. One thing I picked up from my dad is eating canned red salmon with chopped sweet onions all over it. Add in a dipping dish with soy sauce, chili pepper water with a side bowl of poi and I am golden. Don't eat it much because I can't readily get poi here in Florida.
El Pistolero
03-25-21, 18:54
Okinawa just isn’t the same without the banana show lady. RIP.
Same rule on "Mexican food. " which is really Tex Mex
If you want it, don't go to Mexico. Go to San Antonio or Houston.
El Pistolero
03-26-21, 00:40
Sorry, no, the food in Texas sucks! The last comment is pure nonsense!
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-26-21, 01:37
The biggest difference I saw was that the sushi in Japan was a lot lighter on the meat. A sliver of meat on top of the rice, versus the filet that they put on here in the US. I did have whale while I was there. Not as fatty as you'd think.
I like Japan. Makes the Germans look lazy, dirty and inefficient.
In Vietnam I supposedly went to the place that invented 'Pho'. That was interesting. I was so wacked with antihistamines. Had HORRIBLE allergies the whole time I was there. Weird place. Communist propaganda and western brands everywhere.
Jiro Dreams was a good show on Netflix :)
No longer on NF, sounded good.
Adrenaline_6
03-26-21, 09:31
The biggest difference I saw was that the sushi in Japan was a lot lighter on the meat. A sliver of meat on top of the rice, versus the filet that they put on here in the US.
I find that funny. Now days the whole carbs, sugar and white rice thing is the new "evil" as far as diet goes. I call BS. Rice is fine. The whole Asian culture eats rice constantly at pretty much every meal. They are the thinnest people on average out there.
It's not the rice you fatty, it's the 2lbs of meat and gravy you eat along with it. I eat lot's of rice. Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner if I have the choice. I go light on the meat (although I am a gravy fiend). I eat crazy amounts of sugar, too. Zero problems. Blood tests come out stellar. I just had one last month. They can put out as many crap studies as they want, the proof is in the pudding. Asians have one of the longest life spans and they are rice (carbs/sugar) crazy. They just don't gorge themselves with crazy huge portions.
Oddly enough, the only decent place near me for sushi is the chinese food joint that is owned/run by Korean immigrants. WTF?
Oddly enough, the only decent place near me for sushi is the chinese food joint that is owned/run by Korean immigrants. WTF?
Korean sushi is a hidden/underrated meal. Of course I have a large Koreatown in my city so it’s easier for me (but I’ll hit charcoal K-BBQ anytime I’m given the chance!!).
Sent from 80ms in the future
Adrenaline_6
03-26-21, 13:16
Korean sushi is a hidden/underrated meal. Of course I have a large Koreatown in my city so it’s easier for me (but I’ll hit charcoal K-BBQ anytime I’m given the chance!!).
Sent from 80ms in the future
Oh yeah....Korean food is great. Gochujang sauce is like crack.
Oh yeah....Korean food is great. Gochujang sauce is like crack.
Well I totally know what’s for dinner tonight!!
Sent from 80ms in the future
I find that funny. Now days the whole carbs, sugar and white rice thing is the new "evil" as far as diet goes. I call BS. Rice is fine. The whole Asian culture eats rice constantly at pretty much every meal. They are the thinnest people on average out there.
It's not the rice you fatty, it's the 2lbs of meat and gravy you eat along with it. I eat lot's of rice. Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner if I have the choice. I go light on the meat (although I am a gravy fiend). I eat crazy amounts of sugar, too. Zero problems. Blood tests come out stellar. I just had one last month. They can put out as many crap studies as they want, the proof is in the pudding. Asians have one of the longest life spans and they are rice (carbs/sugar) crazy. They just don't gorge themselves with crazy huge portions.
Yeah, diets are faddish. Every generation declares a new religion. Atkins probably had a history of heart attacks.
I think the true formula is meal proportions < exercise. My grandmother existed almost exclusively on cookies, cake and pie and lived well into her 90s BUT she walked pretty much everywhere. Drove me nuts when she stayed with me, I wanted her to eat healthy obviously but when she came back from her walk I'd ask if she had lunch yet and she'd say yes she ate at dairy queen. But she outlived most of her friends.
I enjoy a good meal but not every night has to be thanksgiving. I meet people who think every dinner must include desert like a beverage and I'm constantly amazed they don't understand where all the weight is coming from, thankfully when I grew up when you were full you were allowed to be done eating.
Asians do have seemed to have figured a lot of things out. They are generally an active culture and one of the last that treats the elderly with respect and dignity, this is probably why the average life expectancy on Okinawa is somewhere near 100. They also tend to have one of the healthiest diets out there and the rice sure isn't killing anyone.
The only thing I'm really missing is great miso soup, I love that stuff but it has to be really good. Bad miso is like bad dish water. But good miso, I can sometimes make a meal out of just that. I miss getting a quart of miso take out and drinking it while training on those few cold nights that Florida called winter.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-27-21, 08:35
I find that funny. Now days the whole carbs, sugar and white rice thing is the new "evil" as far as diet goes. I call BS. Rice is fine. The whole Asian culture eats rice constantly at pretty much every meal. They are the thinnest people on average out there.
It's not the rice you fatty, it's the 2lbs of meat and gravy you eat along with it. I eat lot's of rice. Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner if I have the choice. I go light on the meat (although I am a gravy fiend). I eat crazy amounts of sugar, too. Zero problems. Blood tests come out stellar. I just had one last month. They can put out as many crap studies as they want, the proof is in the pudding. Asians have one of the longest life spans and they are rice (carbs/sugar) crazy. They just don't gorge themselves with crazy huge portions.
Asians eat a lot of vegetables too. Plus their desserts seem to usually just be sliced fruit. Way different than the European refined flour and sugar desserts.
Adrenaline_6
03-31-21, 09:43
Asians eat a lot of vegetables too. Plus their desserts seem to usually just be sliced fruit. Way different than the European refined flour and sugar desserts.
Correct, they do eat veggies also. As far as desserts, they run the gamut. Okinawans have Sata andagi. Which is a no hole donut. Pretty good...but the Portuguese origin malasada made in Hawaii trumps all. Lighter, fluffier. Ridiculous. I don't understand how no one makes it everywhere in the states. Donuts suck compared to a malasada.
Hahahahaha so true about malasada
Correct, they do eat veggies also. As far as desserts, they run the gamut. Okinawans have Sata andagi. Which is a no hole donut. Pretty good...but the Portuguese origin malasada made in Hawaii trumps all. Lighter, fluffier. Ridiculous. I don't understand how no one makes it everywhere in the states. Donuts suck compared to a malasada.
Johnny Rico
04-01-21, 13:21
No longer on NF, sounded good.
It's currently on YouTube.
Jiro Dreams was a good show on Netflix :)
So because I'm a huge nerd I rented the DVD, watching it now and now I'm f'ing starving for sushi. Goddamn that's worse than the Franco's Pizza commercial that used to air in South Florida after midnight advertising that they delivered until 4am. I used to eat a lot of Franco's pizza after midnight.
Jiro also looks too much like Ryusho Sakagami (Shito Ryu master instructor and teacher to Fumio Demura) and has nearly identical mannerisms. Kinda scary.
Also glad I'm not in Japan, reservations at Jiro's are required a month in advance, he only does sushi (I love tempura, hibachi and too many other things) and meals apparently start at $300 US which is a tad pricey even if it's considered the best in the world.
I like steaks at Morton's, eaten there more than a few times, but I make an excellent ribeye at home for a lot less money.
If you are in Hawaii (and I think you are), you have access to Chuck's Steakhouse which is one of my favorite's and the last one left in South Florida is crap. I nearly cried when they closed down the Ft. Lauderdale location. It was a factor in my decision to leave South Florida, not a top ten factory, but on the list.
I am now on mainland in Arizona not to much fresh sashimi here :) I like sashimi more than sushi though but on Maui we used to get our own fish all the time on the boats and it was flapping still as we were eating it :) we always had wasabi and shoyu on board !
I did look up chucks but sounds like it went out of biz a few years ago ? I was on another island of Oahu (I am from Maui) and in the islands that often means its like another country to us :) I spent some time young on Oahu but to young to remember anything
It is a great show though hope ya liked it
I know you are into martial arts etc.... one thing I liked was also how much ritual he has and his aprentices (spelling) what they have to do the one thing I do like about that culture is and its sadly going away is the dedication to a master to learn properly etc...
I hear ya about ribeye at home ! I still rarely go out cause I would rather cook my own higher grade for a lot less ( I am cheap) and I am a simple guy so its easy for me to be satisfied and prefer the company of a friend at home over being out
So because I'm a huge nerd I rented the DVD, watching it now and now I'm f'ing starving for sushi. Goddamn that's worse than the Franco's Pizza commercial that used to air in South Florida after midnight advertising that they delivered until 4am. I used to eat a lot of Franco's pizza after midnight.
Jiro also looks too much like Ryusho Sakagami (Shito Ryu master instructor and teacher to Fumio Demura) and has nearly identical mannerisms. Kinda scary.
Also glad I'm not in Japan, reservations at Jiro's are required a month in advance, he only does sushi (I love tempura, hibachi and too many other things) and meals apparently start at $300 US which is a tad pricey even if it's considered the best in the world.
I like steaks at Morton's, eaten there more than a few times, but I make an excellent ribeye at home for a lot less money.
If you are in Hawaii (and I think you are), you have access to Chuck's Steakhouse which is one of my favorite's and the last one left in South Florida is crap. I nearly cried when they closed down the Ft. Lauderdale location. It was a factor in my decision to leave South Florida, not a top ten factory, but on the list.
I am now on mainland in Arizona not to much fresh sashimi here :) I like sashimi more than sushi though but on Maui we used to get our own fish all the time on the boats and it was flapping still as we were eating it :) we always had wasabi and shoyu on board !
I did look up chucks but sounds like it went out of biz a few years ago ? I was on another island of Oahu (I am from Maui) and in the islands that often means its like another country to us :) I spent some time young on Oahu but to young to remember anything
It is a great show though hope ya liked it
I know you are into martial arts etc.... one thing I liked was also how much ritual he has and his aprentices (spelling) what they have to do the one thing I do like about that culture is and its sadly going away is the dedication to a master to learn properly etc...
I hear ya about ribeye at home ! I still rarely go out cause I would rather cook my own higher grade for a lot less ( I am cheap) and I am a simple guy so its easy for me to be satisfied and prefer the company of a friend at home over being out
Yeah, all the traditions come through. Even the titles like "Shokunin" being thrown around were nice to hear again. Not really a job description but a status / rank thing like "master." You can attain shokunin as a cook, painter or architect. Martial arts have similar conventions such as renshi, hanshi and kenshi which don't directly correspond to specific black belt grades.
Jiro was something of a hardass though. He thinks because he got told to leave home at 9 and became successful that hardship is the "only road to sucess", he seems to have overlooked that he might have found something he loved enough to dedicate his life too even if he grew up middle class. But he goes with what he knows and it's working apparently.
But they will forever be wading through wannabees by the dozens to find just one who has a similar belief system, won't be easy. Fascinating show regardless.
Agree on his making it his harda$$ cause his age and what he is OR was some of it for the show edited ? No idea just editing for dramatic can happen ? But we know old school dudes in Japan can be tough from the ones I knew etc...
also I think timing and some luck can be involved sushi became very popular if it was something else ?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.