View Full Version : Suez Canal Blockage
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-26-21, 08:21
I know it is a big ship, and it seems like Achmed with a back hoe isn't going to cut it. Why not take a page out of the Egyptian attack across by using water jets to erode out material and free the bow? I assume that has a bulb bow and is pretty well stuck in there.
Yea, they need to get that canal up and running again. Europe needs oil!
I have never dealt with a recovery of that scale, but between a life of four wheeling and a career in construction I have a LOT of experience getting things unstuck. Looks like they are digging out the ends, that is the right move. There is gonna be the weight of the material that was displaced, the drag against that material, and the suction of that saturated material to overcome.
That is a shitload of mass to get moving, add to that the factors I listed above and it can be insurmountable. I have seen a 25 ton excavator buried in the mud so bad that a 300 ton crane couldn't pull it out. We had to dig it out first and then drag it out. I could see jetting water or air along the hull helping, but I think digging is the right answer. The hadji leading the recovery is thinking they'll have the cork out over the weekend.
I don't know how it works in the Suez. Does a pilot come aboard and command the ship all the way through? I've heard wind pushed that big bitch around, and I've heard aggressive maneuvering. I'm guessing someone(s) gonna be sweating it out hard in front of a review panel over this.
I have seen a 25 ton excavator buried in the mud so bad that a 300 ton crane couldn't pull it out. We had to dig it out first and then drag it out.
You just need a yellow XJ and a yellow rope!
just a scout
03-26-21, 09:46
Don’t they have to unload the ship first? That’s like one of the biggest ships in the world and it’s fully loaded with cargo containers.
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Averageman
03-26-21, 09:55
Dig out both ends, have the Egyptian Army up with a Brigade of Tanks daisy chain them like you would for a mired tank. Pull both ends in opposite directions and go to town.
Adrenaline_6
03-26-21, 09:57
I would think they would just hook up some buoyancy "balloons" to the ship and carry on.
Canal moves 10 Billion worth of goods per day & say it will take weeks...they are going to have to remove containers & then relieve the water ballasts. Word is it's gotta get a lot lighter to get unstuck. 'Evergreen' blew up the net the day this happened. How's this for coincidences:
Scott Borgerson is said to be the main boss man for Evergreen & supposed husband of Maxine Ghislaine.
The same day the vessel got stuck in the canal, a nursing home in NY caught fire causing one death & several injured including NYFD...Evergreen Court Home for Adults.
The US Secret Service had a code name for Hilary Clinton...Evergreen.
The call sign for the stuck vessel is H3RC.
One of the tugboats that attempted to unstick had a call sign of Baraka1.
Can't make this shit up.
Does anyone honestly believe this wasn't intentional?
And then there is this mystery!!!!
https://nypost.com/2021/03/24/cargo-ship-drew-penis-before-getting-stuck-in-suez-canal/
Journalism 101...saying traffic has resumed??
Perhaps they could blow it up and pull the pieces out.
I am a ship pilot myself, but here in the states.
Yes, vessels take a pilot to transit the Suez canal. Probably a couple of different pilots for the entire 120 mile transit with a potential for anchoring in the lake in the middle of the two narrow sections. This particular ship was said to have been 5th in a convoy of northbound ships that day with several more behind her.
Lots of speculation. I've seen comments from a Suez pilot saying a gust of wind caused the initial problem. That could happen.
Anyone want to speculate what side the wind would have come from to make her steer to stbd? Hint: It has to do with the vessels pivot point while making headway.
Not ruling that out. A wind gust could have initiated the track I saw where it appeared she sheared off the east bank, then the west bank even harder and finally slammed into the east bank bow first.
According to the reports of the convoy though, she was the only one that lost complete control in this "wind gust". So is the wind gust solely to blame? If it was so windy, I believe pilots world wide would shut down transits until the wind slacked off.
Another comment suggested that the Captain said "the bridge team lost control of the ship"...so a loss of steering?, loss of the engine?, a total blackout of the whole vessel? Or was it literally a loss of control and human error will be the majority factor? Anyone in the maritime industry would not want to hear that.
It might even be a combination of all that.
Now we all need to know that when a vessel has a pilot on board and is in “pilotage waters” the bower anchors (usually two, so both anchors) are made ready for emergency use. This means they can be dropped by simply releasing a static brake. This can be done without any power in the event of a loss of steering, or blackout, or any imaginable emergency scenario where the vessels “way” would need to be drastically reduced or stopped. On top of that there needs to be a means from doing this from the vessels bridge location or it is required that a person who is competent it emergency releasing of the anchor(s) and setting the brake will be standing by at the anchor winches and have direct comms available, usually a radio. This persons is usually of officer status or at minimum a Bosun.
If a blackout or loss of steering occurred, why didn’t the captain nor the pilot order the anchor(s) to be dropped? Or were they not ready? Or was there a malfunction there? I’m not saying that deploying could have stopped or even really slowed the vessel. But so far in all the photos and reports neither anchor was released. It will come up in court I’m sure.
Sorry. I’m starting to Monday morning quarterback now.
Simply, no one, at least on this side of the world, is privy to anything just yet. We may never be.
With all this in mind, the only pictures I have seen are the ones with several large tug boats on site pushing and pulling, trying to free her. And the one little excavator scratching dirt off her bow. I think I saw a dive vessel on site today on AIS apps. But I want to know where are the dredge vessels? Where is a drag line operation that can move mounds of dirt long distances? As mentioned above, where are the water jets to start blowing the sediment clear from the stuck portions of the ship? And lastly, where is a lightering vessel with a big crane to start picking off containers to decrease her draft? I realize we are half a world away and that every one of those questions has a legitimate answer. But that's just where I am right now.
It sucks for all involved no doubt.
The_War_Wagon
03-26-21, 15:33
I know a retired city engineer who could help. :rolleyes:
http://youtu.be/yPuaSY0cMK8
Could be truth, all those containers constitute a giant sail.
The older I get, the less I believe in coincidences.
Does anyone honestly believe this wasn't intentional?
George Soros, Bill Gates, the Davos globalists, and the shadowy cabal that controls Joe Biden are sending us a message.
George Soros, Bill Gates, the Davos globalists, and the shadowy cabal that controls Joe Biden are sending us a message.
The way things are right now, something like this could very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
titsonritz
03-27-21, 21:38
I know a retired city engineer who could help. :rolleyes:
http://youtu.be/yPuaSY0cMK8
:lol: Still lore here in Oregon. :lol:
titsonritz
03-27-21, 21:38
Damn D.T.
eightmillimeter
03-27-21, 21:50
And then there is this mystery!!!!
https://nypost.com/2021/03/24/cargo-ship-drew-penis-before-getting-stuck-in-suez-canal/
Is this for real?
Is this for real?
Not gonna lie, I've done that while operating large vessels dynamic positioning coming onto a new location; and many times on simulators.
It looks pretty real. But I speculate it's fake because the Ever Given was likely anchored and waiting for a pilot prior to beginning her canal transit. When ships pick up anchor in a congested anchorage they usually only have room to pick up, get turned to where they need to go then sort of bob and weave their way out of the anchorage. And they only have enough time to get to the pilot boarding grounds and get steady on the specified course and speed for pilot. I doubt they had the room or the time to mess around like that. Although, it could have happened. Remember, they are sailors, we do stuff like that.
Over the past week, even after sifting through all the normal coincidence and conspiracy talk, I've wondered if this is not a play from the "oldest trick in the book" ...look here, look here! (distraction) while something else sneaky and sinister is happening right under our noses.
Grand58742
03-28-21, 08:38
I would think they would just hook up some buoyancy "balloons" to the ship and carry on.
Is this a Cussler reference?
Is this for real?
The story is all over the place and the ships course seems to be real, I just picked one. Whether the ships crew intended it...who knows.
Question for sailors: that ship looks top heavy with all those containers. How does it not capsize if a storm comes up?
Inkslinger
03-28-21, 10:58
Question for sailors: that ship looks top heavy with all those containers. How does it not capsize if a storm comes up?
There are containers down in the ships hull too. They’re not just stacked on the deck.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210328/56fcdec93ae619eda7bc9bf039c2239f.jpg
Not a sailor, but it's like the iceberg analogy. There is a whole lot of hull under the water. What hull you see above water is probably about 1/3 of the actual hull. The ships are designed like a double hulled bathtub, so stacks of containers go all the way down well below the water level. They can also take on water as ballast to lower CG.
Grand58742
03-28-21, 11:10
The story is all over the place and the ships course seems to be real, I just picked one. Whether the ships crew intended it...who knows.
Apparently, there was some serious winds that day as well as some mechanical problems on the ship.
Facing facts here, that canal is almost too narrow for the intended purpose and probably should have been expanded or as a minimum enlarged it years ago. I understand there's a lot of capital up front that's needed for such a project, but they are raking in 10 to 11 figures from the transit fees annually I'm sure they could afford to do it.
Apparently, there was some serious winds that day as well as some mechanical problems on the ship.
Facing facts here, that canal is almost too narrow for the intended purpose and probably should have been expanded or as a minimum enlarged it years ago. I understand there's a lot of capital up front that's needed for such a project, but they are raking in 10 to 11 figures from the transit fees annually I'm sure they could afford to do it.
The economics can be deceptive. The maintenance required (dredging, upkeep of locks,...) is very costly for the canals. They have to price transit vs the cost(including the time value) of going the long way which for (faster) container ships is about 2x. Oil tankers and other slower vessels the hit is bigger.
At 500-750k, that transit ain't chump change by any means. Egypt pull about 5b/year. Also consider that one impact of doing upgrades is gonna be loss of volume during construction. Not to mention, upgrading capacity and increasing the availabilityof transit will probably result in having to lower transit fees per vessel.
I'm hardly a shipping expert, but I got roped into a sample discussion about canals during a construction seminar. Highways have similar flow considerations, blah blah.
Averageman
03-28-21, 21:10
I just had a video and now I can't find it.
Apparently the Evergreen rubbed fenders with a boat taxi while leaving Denmark. The story also said they had unstuck the back end of the ship now.
This is the latest tug attempt I ran across...I assumed early on it would take offloading. That vessel is insanely large & heavy.
https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1375900194060046336
Looks like we also got another finery down & combined with losing the logistical shortcut...let's expect another gas hike I reckon.
https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1376268426965041156
65491
Shouldn’t be be long now. Her stern is free, rudder is likely damaged by my guess, but if she can back with the engine at all her bow will be free soon.
Facing facts here, that canal is almost too narrow for the intended purpose
51%. That is the rule of thumb.
A ship's beam (width) should not exceed 51% of the channel's width at the narrowest section that they are going to transit. (for one-way traffic).
This seems like a huge safety factor, and it is, but it is calculated to accommodate for the vessels "swept path." Swept path means the area that the vehicle is actually going to cover through the course of a turn. In ship's cases, it's also the total area that is going to be covered by just going straight, but having to hold a certain degree of offset heading to accommodate for wind and/or current. Ever Given is 400m long x 59m wide. If she was holding just 4 degrees offset (which is not uncommon for vessels a quarter of her size), by rule of thumb her swept path (new effective beam) increased by 1.5, and was something like 88.5m (290ft) wide. If she was holding up 8 degrees, again by rule of thumb, her effective beam was doubled; 177m (581ft)
The narrowest section of the Suez canal, which happens to be where she got stuck is 300m (984ft) wide according to a quick search on my part. Even if holding up 8 degrees offset, she only covered 59% of the channels width. So she had the room in the canal to safely make the transit.
Her replayed track (I don't know how to attach) showed some serious issues as she was entering the narrows and a couple of responses/reactions that looked like bank suction, bank cushion. All narrow channel, shallow water effects on large vessels that I am familiar with. I could get way off in the weeds about squat, under keel clearance, sniffing bottom, and talk hydro dynamics all day. But in the end, the vessel simply experienced a bad sequence of events that are always possible in any tight waterway. Unfortunately, those tight waterways are how these ships get to their destinations.
I'm so confused.
I read huge letters on the side of the ship that says, "EVERGREEN". But in smaller letters on the front of the ship it says, "EVER GIVEN". I've heard and read the ship being called both. What's the deal?
I'm so confused.
I read huge letters on the side of the ship that says, "EVERGREEN". But in smaller letters on the front of the ship it says, "EVER GIVEN". I've heard and read the ship being called both. What's the deal?
This is common.
EVERGREEN is the name of the shipping company. It would be like seeing MAERSK written in huge letters on the side of the ship Maersk Alabama.
The actual name of the ship, to hail her in the radio, to assign her an IMO #, an MMSI # and AIS identification is Ever Given. The news media just can’t get it right. They keep calling it a tanker for crying out loud. (It’s a container ship, not a tanker)
And she’s free. Heading to the next anchorage further north. 0815 US CDT time.
This is common.
EVERGREEN is the name of the shipping company. It would be like seeing MAERSK written in huge letters on the side of the ship Maersk Alabama.
The actual name of the ship, to hail her in the radio, to assign her an IMO #, an MMSI # and AIS identification is Ever Given. The news media just can’t get it right. They keep calling it a tanker for crying out loud. (It’s a container ship, not a tanker)
Thank you for that education. I learn something new.
I wonder how long it will take to clear the backlog?
I wonder how long it will take to clear the backlog?
Pilots call this “clean up”. We have to do it on the Gulf of Mexico coast after periods of no movements post hurricanes or multiple days of fog. Pilot associations can and often do utilize helicopters to transport pilots to and from ships which is about 10 times faster than by their pilot boats.
Shooting from the hip here, I’m gonna say a few days. More than two, less than a full week; provided the weather is good and visibility is clear. I base this on knowing the port of Houston can move as many as 50 ships in a 24 hour period with half of their pilot association "on call." That’s a 60 mile channel though and not all ships are all the way inside or have to go from the anchorage all the way in.
The suez is a 120 mile pass through stretch. It probably takes a ship 12 hours to go from one end to the other. I don’t know how many pilots the Suez has, but I’d expect them to call in pilots who are on their off time and they will ALL be humping it. I'd also expect that they open for northbound one-way traffic for 24 hours, move 100 large ships through. Then open southbound one-way traffic for 24 hours and move 100 more through. Then open it to two way traffic (smaller ships that can pass going opposite directions like cars on a two way road) for 24 hours and they'll be pretty close to caught up after that. Or some sort of schedule like that.
Give it a few days. Their queue will be back to normal.
Averageman
03-29-21, 11:43
I wonder how long it will take to clear the backlog?
They are currently pouring 1.5 million gallons of prune juice in the Suez Canal, give in 4 to 5 hours.
I'm so confused.
I read huge letters on the side of the ship that says, "EVERGREEN". But in smaller letters on the front of the ship it says, "EVER GIVEN". I've heard and read the ship being called both. What's the deal?
Here's an Evergreen vessel / Ever Liberal that lost some containers...I would love to see one of the mega in person as 20k containers is pretty freak'n impressive. I honestly did not think it would move w/out unloading.
https://taiwanenglishnews.com/evergreen-marine-container-ship-loses-36-containers-at-sea/
EVER GIVEN is officially confiscated: Suez Canal chairman
https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/100830/MV-EVER-GIVEN-is-officially-confiscated-Suez-Canal-chairman
Whiskey_Bravo
04-13-21, 15:33
EVER GIVEN is officially confiscated: Suez Canal chairman
https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/100830/MV-EVER-GIVEN-is-officially-confiscated-Suez-Canal-chairman
I wonder what the Ever Given and all of it's cargo is worth. Hell of a confiscation. Read that it can carry 20,000 containers.
Was it not the canal pilot in command of the vessel at the time of the incident?
If so it's awfully hard to blame Evergreen.
Exactly, Trying to follow this story has been a challenge...just hoping I can find a legit follow up to the black box.
Was it not the canal pilot in command of the vessel at the time of the incident?
If so it's awfully hard to blame Evergreen.
The pilot is NEVER "in command" of the vessel. The master (Captain) is always the one in control, he's in charge and has the command of the vessel. And don't forget, he;s in charge of the crew as well...the crew includes the helmsman.
Pilot's are hired (compulsory) for their local knowledge and expertise in the confined waterway. Pilot's speak the local language, they know the narrows, the shallows, the prevailing winds and currents. Imagine if a Chinese ship were meeting a Russian ship in a narrow water way and trying to communicate. Instead there is a local pilot on each vessel and they conduct all the radio comms. Pilots are basically valet for vessels. They know what to say, where to go and where not to go. They provide this knowledge throughout the route for which they are hired. You'd be surprised at how many accidents pilots prevent. It's unfathomable.
But they are never in control or in command or in charge.
This is not to say they have no responsibility. But the master and his hiring company or seafarers union own the brunt of the responsibility of most accidents.
The pilot is NEVER "in command" of the vessel. The master (Captain) is always the one in control, he's in charge and has the command of the vessel. And don't forget, he;s in charge of the crew as well...the crew includes the helmsman.
Pilot's are hired (compulsory) for their local knowledge and expertise in the confined waterway. Pilot's speak the local language, they know the narrows, the shallows, the prevailing winds and currents. Imagine if a Chinese ship were meeting a Russian ship in a narrow water way and trying to communicate. Instead there is a local pilot on each vessel and they conduct all the radio comms. Pilots are basically valet for vessels. They know what to say, where to go and where not to go. They provide this knowledge throughout the route for which they are hired. You'd be surprised at how many accidents pilots prevent. It's unfathomable.
But they are never in control or in command or in charge.
This is not to say they have no responsibility. But the master and his hiring company or seafarers union own the brunt of the responsibility of most accidents.
Gotcha, he's the tour guide. Didn't know how it worked other than you had to have the pilot aboard, I thought he essentially assumed command for the passage. Thanks.
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