View Full Version : Covid Vaccine Status Thread
Got the Pfizer shot today.
Hopefully as effective and safe as advertised. Will get #2 in 21 days ish.
What's your status?
If vaccinated, what did you get?
Effects, if any, from #1 vs 2?
Required for job?
Other?
ChattanoogaPhil
03-28-21, 11:40
82 y/o mother Pfizer. #1 no reaction. #2 fever following night.
Wife Pfizer. #1 no reaction. #2 fever and headache following night.
I had Pfizer. #1 no reaction. #2 next week.
Daughter Moderna. #1 Tired and flu-like symptoms for a couple days. #2 next week.
Son-in law Moderna #1 no reaction. #2 next week.
Granddaughter Moderna #1 no reaction. #2 next week.
Daughter (2) and son-in-law scheduled for Moderna #1 next week.
2nd Pfizer Vac Friday.
No issues with first, 2nd Vac- felt like hammered shit all day Saturday and this AM.
My wife and I have had both doses of Pfizer. No issues after the first shot, but had most listed side effects after the second for about a day. We were both kind of happy to have a noticeable reaction after the second dose, as it showed our immune systems were doing their job well. It's been a month since the second dose, and we're just not worrying about Corona anymore, back to doing whatever we want.
Waiting for the Sanofi "COVAX" this summer.
My Dad (80+) and Mom (70+) and FIL (80+) have all had both shots. FIL had a cough, Mom had mild flu-like symptoms, both on the 2nd shot. FIL had been hosptialized with Covid
I'm scheduled for the beginning of April for #1. Could do walk-in at the VA, but why?
Not required for work, even for our employees that travel.
Andy
BangBang77
03-28-21, 13:06
I've had both shots of the Moderna vaccine. Not "required" for work, but we do food and pharmaceutical packaging, so it is encouraged.
I travel for work and spent 221 nights in hotels in 2020 so I took the vaccine as a precaution due to how much time I spend in airports, restaurants, and our manufacturing sites across the US. We have plants in the east coast and west coast, so the vaccine will alleviate some of the travel pains in/out of NY, Jersey, and Commiefornia.
First shot was a breeze, arm was hot like a local fever and slightly sore the next day.
Second shot sucked. Got it on a Friday morning, and body aches started by that afternoon. Slept most of Saturday and missed church on Sunday due to fatigue. My lower back, shoulders, hips, and femurs hurt well into the following Tuesday/Wednesday. Horrible bone aches...
BangBang77
03-28-21, 13:17
I've lost quite a few family members with no co-morbities, healthy, fit, etc.
It's real. And has hit our family pretty bad.
I've lost quite a few family members with no co-morbities, healthy, fit, etc.
It's real. And has hit our family pretty bad.
Wow, sorry to hear it man. I know a number of people who lost people. It's not the flu...
Like the man said, stick to the exact topic, questions and do not stray. I've cleaned up the mess. Keep it that way. No exceptions.
Moderna
1st shot
Next day got flu like body aches and fever of 100.9 for about 20 or so hours. Then it went away.
Not required for job or anything.
Scheduled 2nd shot
Steve Shannon
03-28-21, 13:34
Moderna, first and second shots.
Not required for my job because I’m retired.
Slight soreness in arm for first dose. More soreness and slight fatigue the day after the second dose, but still relatively mild. My wife had the same soreness for the first dose and zero effects for the second and she is the one I was afraid might react due to her MS medications.
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m1a_scoutguy
03-28-21, 14:43
My wife & I both got the J&J shot 3 weeks ago today. Nothing as far as reactions for me, maybe felt a little run down on the 2nd day after receiving it, still went to work with no issues. My wife had some stomach issues for a couple of days but she is super sensitive to everything! So far so good I guess. My work does not require it but as stated by others it is "strongly" suggested, we package dairy/milk products. We are both 67 & Wife has Type II Diabetes and asthma so she wanted it & I guess I'm old so I just went along for the ride, LOL
J&J, first day there was fatigue within two hours. Fever 103 that night--took tylenol for a couple of days to keep it in check. Had antibody check two weeks after shot and showed that it definitely worked.
BoringGuy45
03-28-21, 15:55
Had my first shot of Moderna at the beginning of January, and the second at the beginning of February. Had a little bit of a fever for a couple hours with the first shot, and felt like shit for about a day with the second one. The rest of my family all got theirs as well, with the exception of my son, but he's only 3, so he doesn't really need it right now since COVID doesn't hit the little ones very hard.
Wife and I both got Moderna. Available to both of us because of our jobs.
First shot end of January. Neither one of had issues other than a very sore arm.
Second shot, my wife was down about 2.5 days with mild fever, bad body aches, headache and fatigue. I had bad body aches, oddly, from the waste down, bad headache and fatigue. For both of us, it was literally like a snap of the fingers and we felt fine.
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I've lost quite a few family members with no co-morbities, healthy, fit, etc.
It's real. And has hit our family pretty bad.
Very sorry to hear. Very unusual given the real stats. I have not gotten vaccinated and would not if it were entirely my choice. With that said, I will be told to get vaccinated at some point by my work. The VA.
I had the first moderna with no problems other than sore arm, scheduled for second one on the 31st
Mom and dad are in their 70s and both only had sore arms for the first moderna shot. Mom has had her second one and had chills and body aches as well as stomach issues for around two days. Dad is scheduled to get his second when I get mine.
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Averageman
03-28-21, 20:22
Mom and dad are in their 70s and both only had sore arms for the first moderna shot. Mom has had her second one and had chills and body aches as well as stomach issues for around two days. Dad is scheduled to get his second when I get mine.
My Mom is 82, same effects on her. sore, stiff arm after the first one, fever and mild body aches with the second.
eightmillimeter
03-28-21, 21:06
Offered through work not mandatory.
Moderna
#1 sore arm for 2.5 days
#2 made me the sickest I’ve ever been for about 8 hours, then a day of lethargy, followed by a day with a swollen lymph node in my armpit on the injection side. Crazy roller coaster of symptoms. Totally fine after day 3.
Got my 1st Pfizer two Fridays ago. Not mandatory for work.
No side effects unless you pressed right on the spot I got an intramuscular injection. Arm was fine except for a 1” circle. Not even sore the next day.
So far it’s been the same as getting a flu shot.
My friend who is undergoing chemo for cancer AND came down with COVID in December (he should play the lottery, because I’m pretty sure he’s out of bad luck), had a different reaction - 2 days of stomach issues. Kind of slow for two more days, but fine after that.
Sent from 80ms in the future
I have not received it, and I won't until/unless it becomes mandatory. 30,000 employees have received it (Pfizer); no deaths, fewer than 50 with appreciable side effects.
Offered through work not mandatory.
Moderna
#1 sore arm for 2.5 days
#2 made me the sickest I’ve ever been for about 8 hours, then a day of lethargy, followed by a day with a swollen lymph node in my armpit on the injection side. Crazy roller coaster of symptoms. Totally fine after day 3.
Moderna seems the worst for #2. Here's some intel as to why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wCR-mAFjW4
Day 2 for after Pfizer #1 shot, mildly sore arm and a tad tired. No drama. #2 with Pfizer appears much less intense than Moderna anecdotally. Good intel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A
Phizer shot last Thursday.
Friday I had an upset stomach (may or may not be related) and I was tired enough I took half a day off of work (yay for self employment)
Scheduled for the 2nd shot on the 15th.
Did anybody take Tylenol before getting the second moderna shot? I was told by a few in the medical field that this helped?
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Got the Johnson & Johnson on March 11th. No sore arm, no crappy-feeling side effects. "One and done".
Did anybody take Tylenol before getting the second moderna shot? I was told by a few in the medical field that this helped?
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I was told not to take it before regardless of the type of shot.
Day 2 for after Pfizer #1 shot, mildly sore arm and a tad tired. No drama. #2 with Pfizer appears much less intense than Moderna anecdotally. Good intel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A
No one in the Johnson & Johnson study who ended up getting COVID died from it. To me that's what is most important.....maybe you get a little sick from it but it doesn't kill you. Isn't that the most important part?
BTW Will, that was a pretty good video and broke it down in terms that lay people can easily understand.
Did anybody take Tylenol before getting the second moderna shot? I was told by a few in the medical field that this helped?
They said not to take any tylenol or similar meds before or after any vaccines. That it would weaken the body's immune system's response to the vaccine. I toughed it out and let the vaccine rearranged my genes at its pleasure. :) I'm joking, don't get crazy.
Evel Baldgui
03-29-21, 17:39
Pfizer #1 and #2. No ill effects whatsoever from either. A minuscule ecchymotic spot at injection site on both occasions. I did take 600mg Advil an hour before each injection and q 6h afterwards for 24 hrs.
37, not going to get something that has a higher risk than reward. Common sense. This is on topic considering the title, because it is my status.
Did anybody take Tylenol before getting the second moderna shot? I was told by a few in the medical field that this helped?
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I was told not to take it before regardless of the type of shot.
Might be due to blocking the needed inflammatory response is why it's recommended not to use NSAIDs, but I have not looked into that one in depth. See:
https://www.verywellhealth.com/pain-reliever-covid-19-vaccine-5111319
I got the Pfizer. Offered through work.
1st shot no effects
2nd shot, started getting light headed a couple hours after. A little fatigue that night. Had a fever overnight. Bad body aches around my shoulders and upper back two days after. Lymph node in the armpit of the injection side swelled up for about 4 days after. It felt like i had the flu for 2-3 days after.
I got the Pfizer. Offered through work.
1st shot no effects
2nd shot, started getting light headed a couple hours after. A little fatigue that night. Had a fever overnight. Bad body aches around my shoulders and upper back two days after. Lymph node in the armpit of the injection side swelled up for about 4 days after. It felt like i had the flu for 2-3 days after.
Both the Pfizer and Moderna are similarly consistent in regards to the second shot and it's effects. Not everyone mind you, but quite a few. The J&J seems to be more hit or miss in that regard.
ThirdWatcher
03-30-21, 03:09
Got the first Moderna shot, joints were sore the following day. Three weeks ‘til the second dose. I could have gotten it a month or so earlier but I was in “wait & see” mode. Too many older LEO’s dying from COVID, including an old friend of mine. I’ll take my chances with the shot...
Did anybody take Tylenol before getting the second moderna shot? I was told by a few in the medical field that this helped?
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I was told not to take it before regardless of the type of shot.
Got the first Moderna shot, joints were sore the following day. Three weeks ‘til the second dose. I could have gotten it a month or so earlier but I was in “wait & see” mode. Too many older LEO’s dying from COVID, including an old friend of mine. I’ll take my chances with the shot...
A smart decision I suspect.
Did anybody take Tylenol before getting the second moderna shot? I was told by a few in the medical field that this helped?
Strongly recommended against taking tylenol/advil ahead of time, as it supresses the immune response which is why you are taking it to start with.
You can take it to manage symptoms AFTER, but I read at least one virologist on the vaccine board indicating you should let the fever ride unless it gets to 102.5.
My 2nd pfizer was tough, had extended fever 101.9, joint ache so bad I could barely walk. Meanwhile my wife did not even have a headache.
Reaction hit me 12-18 hrs after the 2nd shot, and lasted 18 hrs before fever broke (under 100) and I felt better. 2.5 days after the shot felt great, completely back to normal. 1st shot I did not have even a headache.
Strongly recommended against taking tylenol/advil ahead of time, as it supresses the immune response which is why you are taking it to start with.
Kinda sorta but not really.
It is an antipyretic (not a NSAID as some people believe). As such, is is designed as a COX inhibitor and suppresses fever, and the fever is one of the 'activators' of the immune system. But there are many 'activators.' Tylenol just affects this one.
Conventional thinking is that if you get a fever, the fever is part of that immune response, so you don't want to suppress it (unless above whatever local protocol says, somewhere between 101-102.5) so it does its' job. Some viruses/bacteria die off with even a mild fever; others actually increase rate of transcription. I am not sure we have a clue with COVID.
Kinda sorta but not really.
It is an antipyretic (not a NSAID as some people believe). As such, is is designed as a COX inhibitor and suppresses fever, and the fever is one of the 'activators' of the immune system. But there are many 'activators.' Tylenol just affects this one.
Conventional thinking is that if you get a fever, the fever is part of that immune response, so you don't want to suppress it (unless above whatever local protocol says, somewhere between 101-102.5) so it does its' job. Some viruses/bacteria die off with even a mild fever; others actually increase rate of transcription. I am not sure we have a clue with COVID.Yep, who knows with Covid. I'm not so sure it's that clear cut in general, and especially with covid-19. I read quite a bit on the topic. Had nothing else to do while I was sick and didn't want to screw up my antibody response.
CDC is pretty clear, not recommended to take either acetomenophene or ibuprofen prior. WHO (yeah, I know) says the same.
Conventional wisdom that it has no impact is pretty dated, going back to 2007.
There are multiple newer studies that found enough evidence of suppressed immune response to change positions.
However, an open label, randomized study by Prymula et al. demonstrated that while acetaminophen (paracetamol) prophylaxis significantly reduced fever following routine childhood immunization, it simultaneously blunted the immune response to several vaccine antigens
SNIP
The primary purpose of the study was to assess the effect of antipyretics in reducing fever and other vaccine related reactogenicity, but the preliminary immunogenicity report showed significantly reduced antibody levels in the prophylaxis group. This finding resulted in the rejection of the prevailing notion that prophylactic antipyretic use around the time of vaccination is harmless.
AND
This effect has only been noted following primary vaccination with novel antigens and disappears following booster immunization. The mechanism by which antipyretic analgesics reduce antibody response remains unclear and not fully explained by COX enzyme inhibition.
Another Yale study raised concerns about interactions of NSAIDs with covid-19, and associated immune response
https://jvi.asm.org/content/95/7/e00014-21 light reading, if you are a biochemist (I'm not)
"If you have mild symptoms just after getting the vaccination, try to tough it out. If you can’t tolerate the temporary discomfort, I would use acetaminophen (Tylenol) over an NSAID,” Craig B. Wilen, MD, PhD, an immunobiologist in the Department of Laboratory Medicine at Yale University School of Medicine and a lead researcher from the study. “Our study was early so there are no firm recommendations, but based on other studies of NSAID use with vaccinations, the theory is that NSAIDs decrease the antibody response.”
Just about everyone says it's not worth taking a chance of blunting the response by taking ahead of time and there is some evidence, but not ironclad.
As to taking T or I afterwards, the conventional wisdom was that it's fine, but in early March the CDC changed position and the consensus became don't take it unless you really need to. And then changed back. Current guidance is silent. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/expect/after.html
Can't find the article I read when I was sick but this one guy who was on the vaccine board for approval (and a national level virologist) said there's enough evidence to raise the question and he recommended toughing it out unless it got over 102.5 degrees.
So give the uncertainty, and the fact that we know it's not a real infection, it's a ghost immune response, I made the decision to tough it out as long as it stayed under 102.5.
The booster shot "immune reaction is just your body saying: the 1st immune response apparently did not work as it came back, I better double down on the antibodies"
I still have shingles antibodies fighting ghost virus remnants in my cornea 14 months after having bad shingles in my eye and meningitis. Apparently still detecting fragments of RNA and thus triggering white blood cells, clouding my cornea.
Everyone has to make their own decision, and the CDC has certainly flip-flopped around.
My decision was I can ride out a fever for a day. I've been up over 104 before, probably the worst I've ever felt. 101.9 was pretty miserable but I could tough it out. Over 102 I would have called my doc, and probably ended up taking Tylenol.
All I know is it's nice to not have to worry about Covid now. While there is a very small number of cases of people who got it immediately after vaccine or even afterwards, there are very few documented hospitalizations and virtually no deaths from covid. (Cue the person who's going to point out that people died from anaphylactic shock from taking the vaccine. People who never should have taken the vaccine to start with)
Other than growing a third eye I've been fine. Now I've got to train it to be dominant so I can shoot ambidextrous without Master eye issues.
I received my first vaccine 11 hours ago. No problems whatsoever. I've heard some people complain about their arm where they were injected being sore, but I've felt worse.
Being locked down is wearing on this old goat, so I hope the vaccine works.
Yep, who knows with Covid. I'm not so sure it's that clear cut in general, and especially with covid-19. I read quite a bit on the topic. Had nothing else to do while I was sick and didn't want to screw up my antibody response.
CDC is pretty clear, not recommended to take either acetomenophene or ibuprofen prior. WHO (yeah, I know) says the same.
Conventional wisdom that it has no impact is pretty dated, going back to 2007.
There are multiple newer studies that found enough evidence of suppressed immune response to change positions.
However, an open label, randomized study by Prymula et al. demonstrated that while acetaminophen (paracetamol) prophylaxis significantly reduced fever following routine childhood immunization, it simultaneously blunted the immune response to several vaccine antigens
SNIP
The primary purpose of the study was to assess the effect of antipyretics in reducing fever and other vaccine related reactogenicity, but the preliminary immunogenicity report showed significantly reduced antibody levels in the prophylaxis group. This finding resulted in the rejection of the prevailing notion that prophylactic antipyretic use around the time of vaccination is harmless.
AND
This effect has only been noted following primary vaccination with novel antigens and disappears following booster immunization. The mechanism by which antipyretic analgesics reduce antibody response remains unclear and not fully explained by COX enzyme inhibition.
Another Yale study raised concerns about interactions of NSAIDs with covid-19, and associated immune response
https://jvi.asm.org/content/95/7/e00014-21 light reading, if you are a biochemist (I'm not)
"If you have mild symptoms just after getting the vaccination, try to tough it out. If you can’t tolerate the temporary discomfort, I would use acetaminophen (Tylenol) over an NSAID,” Craig B. Wilen, MD, PhD, an immunobiologist in the Department of Laboratory Medicine at Yale University School of Medicine and a lead researcher from the study. “Our study was early so there are no firm recommendations, but based on other studies of NSAID use with vaccinations, the theory is that NSAIDs decrease the antibody response.”
Just about everyone says it's not worth taking a chance of blunting the response by taking ahead of time and there is some evidence, but not ironclad.
As to taking T or I afterwards, the conventional wisdom was that it's fine, but in early March the CDC changed position and the consensus became don't take it unless you really need to. And then changed back. Current guidance is silent. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/expect/after.html
Can't find the article I read when I was sick but this one guy who was on the vaccine board for approval (and a national level virologist) said there's enough evidence to raise the question and he recommended toughing it out unless it got over 205.5 degrees.
So give the uncertainty, and the fact that we know it's not a real infection, it's a ghost immune response, I made the decision to tough it out as long as it stayed under 205.5.
The booster shot "immune reaction is just your body saying: the 1st immune response apparently did not work as it came back, I better double down on the antibodies"
I still have shingles antibodies fighting ghost virus remnants in my cornea 14 months after having bad shingles in my eye and meningitis. Apparently still detecting fragments of RNA and thus triggering white blood cells, clouding my cornea.
Everyone has to make their own decision, and the CDC has certainly flip-flopped around.
My decision was I can ride out a fever for a day. I've been up over 104 before, probably the worst I've ever felt. 101.9 was pretty miserable but I could tough it out. Over 102 I would have called my doc, and probably ended up taking Tylenol.
All I know is it's nice to not have to worry about Covid now. While there is a very small number of cases of people who got it immediately after vaccine or even afterwards, there are very few documented hospitalizations and virtually no deaths from covid. (Cue the person who's going to point out that people died from anaphylactic shock from taking the vaccine. People who never should have taken the vaccine to start with)
Other than growing a third eye I've been fine. Now I've got to train it to be dominant so I can shoot ambidextrous without Master eye issues.
Thanks for all the info. I should have my 2nd dose by noon today. I’ll be sure to update. Hopefully it will be a boring update [emoji1695]
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Your post....
Good post, I appreciate the data. Like a lot of things in medicine, what "The Profession" think fevers do in infections ranges from every extreme, and at the end of the day, like so many things, treating fevers in infection remains a source of conflict (starve a fever, feed the cold; starve the cold and feed the fever). What muddies the water is that not all bugs handle fevers the same way: some die in presence of a fever, some actually thrive and grow. This is why cultures make a difference.
Generally with just about most infections, most docs will say to not take tylenol unless the fever is symptomatic to the point of disrupting routine (i.e., for me, anything above 100 and I am literally out of my mind and cannot sleep). There are some where tylenol out of the gate is OK...Streptococcus pneumoniae, Hemophilus influenzae, Pseudomonas, and Moraxella, and Group A Strep. Killing the fever I don't know hurts nor helps the bacteria, but sure makes you feel better.
You are right in that at the end of the day you have to live with yourself and do what you think is best for you.
Yep, who knows with Covid. I'm not so sure it's that clear cut in general, and especially with covid-19. I read quite a bit on the topic. Had nothing else to do while I was sick and didn't want to screw up my antibody response.
CDC is pretty clear, not recommended to take either acetomenophene or ibuprofen prior. WHO (yeah, I know) says the same.
Conventional wisdom that it has no impact is pretty dated, going back to 2007.
There are multiple newer studies that found enough evidence of suppressed immune response to change positions.
However, an open label, randomized study by Prymula et al. demonstrated that while acetaminophen (paracetamol) prophylaxis significantly reduced fever following routine childhood immunization, it simultaneously blunted the immune response to several vaccine antigens
SNIP
The primary purpose of the study was to assess the effect of antipyretics in reducing fever and other vaccine related reactogenicity, but the preliminary immunogenicity report showed significantly reduced antibody levels in the prophylaxis group. This finding resulted in the rejection of the prevailing notion that prophylactic antipyretic use around the time of vaccination is harmless.
AND
This effect has only been noted following primary vaccination with novel antigens and disappears following booster immunization. The mechanism by which antipyretic analgesics reduce antibody response remains unclear and not fully explained by COX enzyme inhibition.
Another Yale study raised concerns about interactions of NSAIDs with covid-19, and associated immune response
https://jvi.asm.org/content/95/7/e00014-21 light reading, if you are a biochemist (I'm not)
"If you have mild symptoms just after getting the vaccination, try to tough it out. If you can’t tolerate the temporary discomfort, I would use acetaminophen (Tylenol) over an NSAID,” Craig B. Wilen, MD, PhD, an immunobiologist in the Department of Laboratory Medicine at Yale University School of Medicine and a lead researcher from the study. “Our study was early so there are no firm recommendations, but based on other studies of NSAID use with vaccinations, the theory is that NSAIDs decrease the antibody response.”
Just about everyone says it's not worth taking a chance of blunting the response by taking ahead of time and there is some evidence, but not ironclad.
As to taking T or I afterwards, the conventional wisdom was that it's fine, but in early March the CDC changed position and the consensus became don't take it unless you really need to. And then changed back. Current guidance is silent. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/expect/after.html
Can't find the article I read when I was sick but this one guy who was on the vaccine board for approval (and a national level virologist) said there's enough evidence to raise the question and he recommended toughing it out unless it got over 205.5 degrees.
So give the uncertainty, and the fact that we know it's not a real infection, it's a ghost immune response, I made the decision to tough it out as long as it stayed under 205.5.
The booster shot "immune reaction is just your body saying: the 1st immune response apparently did not work as it came back, I better double down on the antibodies"
I still have shingles antibodies fighting ghost virus remnants in my cornea 14 months after having bad shingles in my eye and meningitis. Apparently still detecting fragments of RNA and thus triggering white blood cells, clouding my cornea.
Everyone has to make their own decision, and the CDC has certainly flip-flopped around.
My decision was I can ride out a fever for a day. I've been up over 104 before, probably the worst I've ever felt. 101.9 was pretty miserable but I could tough it out. Over 102 I would have called my doc, and probably ended up taking Tylenol.
All I know is it's nice to not have to worry about Covid now. While there is a very small number of cases of people who got it immediately after vaccine or even afterwards, there are very few documented hospitalizations and virtually no deaths from covid. (Cue the person who's going to point out that people died from anaphylactic shock from taking the vaccine. People who never should have taken the vaccine to start with)
Other than growing a third eye I've been fine. Now I've got to train it to be dominant so I can shoot ambidextrous without Master eye issues.
Great intel on this topic, thanx.
Thanks for all the info. I should have my 2nd dose by noon today. I’ll be sure to update. Hopefully it will be a boring update [emoji1695]
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I'd add my sister, mid 70s, had her second shot, and nadda but sore arm.
When I received my first dose yesterday, I asked if it was advisable to take aspirin or Tylenol later in the day. The medical staff at the hospital told me it would not adversely affect the vaccine. The paperwork indicates it is the Pfizer vaccine and I am scheduled for the second dose in three weeks.
I'd add my sister, mid 70s, had her second shot, and nadda but sore arm.
Well 2nd shot taken at noon. We will see what happens now.
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So no one is taking the AZ shots? Or is that not offered? Only a few J&J listed, is that because it's not widely available or do you get to pick?
I have not taken any. I'm in the wait and see category. Not needed for job and I'm kinda meh about it.
My dad got his first Moderna shot the other week. Had a sore arm the next day. My mom isn't interested unless it becomes mandatory
So no one is taking the AZ shots? Or is that not offered? Only a few J&J listed, is that because it's not widely available or do you get to pick?
I have not taken any. I'm in the wait and see category. Not needed for job and I'm kinda meh about it.
My dad got his first Moderna shot the other week. Had a sore arm the next day. My mom isn't interested unless it becomes mandatory
AZ isn’t approved in the US, and J&J is not only the new kid on the block, but they just lost 15mil doses due to a manufacturing error.
Sent from 80ms in the future
AZ isn’t approved in the US, and J&J is not only the new kid on the block, but they just lost 15mil doses due to a manufacturing error.
Fortunately they never left the factory, i.e. they weren't given to anyone.
I'd add my sister, mid 70s, had her second shot, and nadda but sore arm.
Apparently the older you are the less side effects you have with the Moderna or Pfizer second shot (other than sore arm). My FIL is 95 and MIL is 86 and other than sore arm they didn't have the feel-like-crap side effects afterwards. My guess is the the immune response is stronger in younger people.
AZ isn’t approved in the US, and J&J is not only the new kid on the block, but they just lost 15mil doses due to a manufacturing error.
Sent from 80ms in the futureMy doctor buddy told me the J&J is a "traditional" vaccine without the mRNA crap. Anybody know more about this?
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My doctor buddy told me it's a "traditional" vaccine without the mRNA crap. Anybody know more about this?
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I am not sure what the doc means as "traditional", likely is a DNA vaccine, whereby engineered DNA induces an immunological response; it makes the cells produce an antigen because it sees the DNA as 'bad'. The real traditional are inactivated (flu shot, hep A, polio) or live attenuated (flu mist, MMR, chicken pox).
My doctor buddy told me it's a "traditional" vaccine without the mRNA crap. Anybody know more about this?
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
I am not sure what the doc means as "traditional", likely is a DNA vaccine, whereby engineered DNA induces an immunological response; it makes the cells produce an antigen because it sees the DNA as 'bad'. The real traditional are inactivated (flu shot, hep A, polio) or live attenuated (flu mist, MMR, chicken pox).
My doctor buddy told me it's a "traditional" vaccine without the mRNA crap. Anybody know more about this?
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It's not an mRNA based vaccine, and on paper, appears less effective, but data collection is ongoing.
I am not sure what the doc means as "traditional", likely is a DNA vaccine, whereby engineered DNA induces an immunological response; it makes the cells produce an antigen because it sees the DNA as 'bad'. The real traditional are inactivated (flu shot, hep A, polio) or live attenuated (flu mist, MMR, chicken pox).
Chuck & Will, I respect your opinion as well as many others on this board. Please tell me this is false info.. I've heard other similar reports on this mRNA vaccine.
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/must-watch-professor-dolores-cahill-lawyer-dr-reiner-fuellmich_bhiXMUOG4jtoTR4.html
The manager who works for my told me that the second shot is kicking his and one of his direct report's butts. He also said the shot card is too big for a wallet. I unhelpfully told him "just put it in your purse then".
Andy
ChattanoogaPhil
04-01-21, 12:48
Pfizer just came out with sixth month data.
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The question of how long vaccine protection lasts can only be answered once enough time has passed, and while six months of protection is a modest target, it's longer than previously known. The study is continuing and future updates may reveal more about how long and how strong this protection is.
The vaccine remains more than 91% effective against disease with any symptoms for six months, the companies said. And it appeared to be fully effective against the worrying B.1.351 variant of the virus, which is the dominant strain circulating in South Africa and which researchers feared had evolved to evade the protection of vaccines, the companies said.
"The vaccine was 100% effective against severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and 95.3% effective against severe COVID-19 as defined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)," Pfizer and BioNTech said in a joint statement.
--------
Also came out with study for ages 12-15. 100%.
More here: https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/health/pfizer-covid-vaccine-efficacy-six-months-bn/index.html
Chuck & Will, I respect your opinion as well as many others on this board. Please tell me this is false info.. I've heard other similar reports on this mRNA vaccine.
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/must-watch-professor-dolores-cahill-lawyer-dr-reiner-fuellmich_bhiXMUOG4jtoTR4.html
This same person claimed kids are being made retarded due to oxygen deprivation due to masks, which is complete BS:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ucd-professor-dolores-cahill-moved-from-lecturer-role-1.4514141
Watching that vid, she's a loon and I suspect mental illness. Two, her nonsense has been debunked by various experts in the field, and you'd need to track down. One can then say it's all a plot, she's not a loon, she's being suppressed, etc, if you wish, but that's not the focus or intent of this thread to support or debunk that issue. She's got a history of loony behaviors apparently:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ucd-professor-asked-to-resign-from-eu-committee-over-covid-19-claims-1.4277698
See:
https://www.thejournal.ie/debunked-dolores-cahill-covid-19-video-masks-lockdown-vaccines-5315519-Jan2021/
https://www.integralmetamodern.com/post/we-really-need-to-talk-about-that-dolores-cahill-covid-19-video
To be clear: Nothing is 100% safe and risk/benefit is the key issue here. Contrary to her claims, serious adverse effects remain very low.
Chuck & Will, I respect your opinion as well as many others on this board. Please tell me this is false info.. I've heard other similar reports on this mRNA vaccine.
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/must-watch-professor-dolores-cahill-lawyer-dr-reiner-fuellmich_bhiXMUOG4jtoTR4.html
Wow, that's a lot to unpack. At first blush I have a hard time believing her high numbers of suspected reaction rates, across all ages. I will say that with our mRNA vaccine, we've not seen the numbers she is claiming. That said, it's only been almost 4 months since our first shot, so who knows how it'll go.
She claims she doesn't know what is in the vaccine, but we have that data (at least for Pfizer; I do not know about the others). She also claims mRNA vax uses the bug's mRNA; theoretically, how a mRNA vax works, is the vax carries information from a coronavirus protein ("spike protein"), and the cell takes that protein and creates a framework of the bug. But because of the specific protein, the body can't actually make the who virus, just the part the body recognizes as 'bad' to create antibodies. One that happens, the cell actually breaks down the instructions.
It seems to me she is cherry-picking parts of the process and inserting a lot of "well this could happen" but I am not sure it's entirely accurate.
I think that she and others like her will either be vindicated or seen as goats by the end of the year: either right, or wrong, but definitely one or the other.
Chuck & Will, I respect your opinion as well as many others on this board. Please tell me this is false info.. I've heard other similar reports on this mRNA vaccine.
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/must-watch-professor-dolores-cahill-lawyer-dr-reiner-fuellmich_bhiXMUOG4jtoTR4.html
Wow, that's a lot to unpack. At first blush I have a hard time believing her high numbers of suspected reaction rates, across all ages. I will say that with our mRNA vaccine, we've not seen the numbers she is claiming. That said, it's only been almost 4 months since our first shot, so who knows how it'll go.
She claims she doesn't know what is in the vaccine, but we have that data (at least for Pfizer; I do not know about the others). She also claims mRNA vax uses the bug's mRNA; theoretically, how a mRNA vax works, is the vax carries information from a coronavirus protein ("spike protein"), and the cell takes that protein and creates a framework of the bug. But because of the specific protein, the body can't actually make the who virus, just the part the body recognizes as 'bad' to create antibodies. One that happens, the cell actually breaks down the instructions.
It seems to me she is cherry-picking parts of the process and inserting a lot of "well this could happen" but I am not sure it's entirely accurate.
I think that she and others like her will either be vindicated or seen as goats by the end of the year: either right, or wrong, but definitely one or the other.
This same person claimed kids are being made retarded due to oxygen deprivation due to masks, which is complete BS:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ucd-professor-dolores-cahill-moved-from-lecturer-role-1.4514141
Watching that vid, she's a loon and I suspect mental illness. Two, her nonsense has been debunked by various experts in the field, and you'd need to track down. One can then say it's all a plot, she's not a loon, she's being suppressed, etc, if you wish, but that's not the focus or intent of this thread to support or debunk that issue. She's got a history of loony behaviors apparently:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ucd-professor-asked-to-resign-from-eu-committee-over-covid-19-claims-1.4277698
See:
https://www.thejournal.ie/debunked-dolores-cahill-covid-19-video-masks-lockdown-vaccines-5315519-Jan2021/
To be clear: Nothing is 100% safe and risk/benefit is the key issue here. Contrary to her claims, serious adverse effects remain very low.
Thanks Will, that's what I was looking for. I didn't feel it was necessary to start a new thread for this.
Wow, that's a lot to unpack. At first blush I have a hard time believing her high numbers of suspected reaction rates, across all ages. I will say that with our mRNA vaccine, we've not seen the numbers she is claiming. That said, it's only been almost 4 months since our first shot, so who knows how it'll go.
She claims she doesn't know what is in the vaccine, but we have that data (at least for Pfizer; I do not know about the others). She also claims mRNA vax uses the bug's mRNA; theoretically, how a mRNA vax works, is the vax carries information from a coronavirus protein ("spike protein"), and the cell takes that protein and creates a framework of the bug. But because of the specific protein, the body can't actually make the who virus, just the part the body recognizes as 'bad' to create antibodies. One that happens, the cell actually breaks down the instructions.
It seems to me she is cherry-picking parts of the process and inserting a lot of "well this could happen" but I am not sure it's entirely accurate.
I think that she and others like her will either be vindicated or seen as goats by the end of the year: either right, or wrong, but definitely one or the other.
Thanks Chuck, that makes sense ^^. We are planning on vaxing Pfizer that is available here.
"It seems to me she is cherry-picking parts of the process and inserting a lot of "well this could happen" but I am not sure it's entirely accurate."
So this may turn into a shot every 6 months?
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Go to Rumble & do a search for Dr Sherri Tenpenny...there are several but she goes into the messenger rna in full & has been studying vacs for 20 years. Worth your time.
https://rumble.com/vevesv-a-shot-in-the-dark-with-dr-sherri-tenpenny-the-video-they-do-not-want-you-t.html
Chuck & Will, I respect your opinion as well as many others on this board. Please tell me this is false info.. I've heard other similar reports on this mRNA vaccine.
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/must-watch-professor-dolores-cahill-lawyer-dr-reiner-fuellmich_bhiXMUOG4jtoTR4.html
Thanks Artos, will do.
Found this on Cahill
https://dolorescahill.com/pages/video
Go to Rumble & do a search for Dr Sherri Tenpenny...there are several but she goes into the messenger rna in full & has been studying vacs for 20 years. Worth your time.
The anti vaxer science denier osteopath who has no clue she's talking about? Again, why we can't have nice things and I suggest another thread as mod made it clear this one should stay on target.
So this may turn into a shot every 6 months?
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Unclear at this time, I suspect like the flu shot, yearly for new strains and to maintain resistance. Thanx China!
Hopefully my final update. I’m 28hrs after my second moderna shot and really just have a sore arm around the injection sight like the first one. I do have a weird taste thing going on where salt seems to be an overpowering taste. If it persists or gets worse I’ll update. Forgot to mention that I am 44yoa if anyone was keeping track of that.
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Hopefully my final update. I’m 28hrs after my second moderna shot and really just have a sore arm around the injection sight like the first one. I do have a weird taste thing going on where salt seems to be an overpowering taste. If it persists or gets worse I’ll update. Forgot to mention that I am 44yoa if anyone was keeping track of that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I probably should have added age and any co morbidity to the OP.
The anti vaxer science denier osteopath who has no clue she's talking about? Again, why we can't have nice things and I suggest another thread as mod made it clear this one should stay on target.
Will, It's not my goal to derail the thread...the man genuinely appears to be wanting to make an informed decision. I'm not against immunizations but have always been against yearly / repeat vaccines.
Both my folks got the jab & are in their mid 70's...Mom was hit by a train for 24 hours with both shots, Pop & step dad had no issues other than a sore arm. I think all were pfizer. In the end, it as a personal choice & if they are happy, I'm happy. My mom however is a vacshole & says I'm endangering the public by not taking it. So there is that.
Paul
My wife and I are scheduled to get first dose of Moderna tomorrow. I'll post back with any side-effects, etc.
Update:
No issues from first dose aside from sore arms.
Another Update:
Wife developed an itchy rash at the injection site about 8 days post injection. According to The Google, this seems to be a known side-effect that impacts a small percentage of people but doesn't seem to be of much concern. (it goes away on it's own after a few more days)
Been getting Qs on my position on the vaccine, so here is my basic position currently in a new YT vid if interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tch3sl2I_k
Are vacs creds being entered into a data base?
morbidbattlecry
04-02-21, 10:47
Got the J&J this morning
Not required for work or anything, Though I'm considering putting on any application I send out.
Injection was near painless, arm was sore afterwards Going on 3 hours later and not pain or symptoms( the nurse was a military nurse working at mass vaccination site. She was really good. But I bet a lot of you guys don't have fond memories of the military and needles lol)
She told me to really relax my shoulder and it would hurt less and I think she was right.
morbidbattlecry
04-02-21, 10:47
Double Tap
For those interested in a deep dive into the mRNA vaccines, with safety focus, this is solid vid I thought. Safety aspects start at min 29:
Professor Shane Crotty, PhD answers a series of COVID 19 vaccine questions including what are the chances of long-term side effects? How safe is RNA vaccine (i.e. Pfizer / BioNTech and Moderna Vaccines) technology? How long does mRNA from a vaccine stay in our cells? What else goes in vaccines? How long does immunity last? Why are T-Cells so important?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK0C5tFHze8
ChattanoogaPhil
04-02-21, 12:16
Are vacs creds being entered into a data base?
There's no central database that I am aware of but here in Tennessee vaccine info is reported to a state registry by the providers.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-02-21, 12:16
Double.....
There's no central database that I am aware of but here in Tennessee vaccine info is reported to a state registry by the providers.
I was told the CDC is given that information. So yeah, a "database" of sorts. Think about it: since you are given a CDC vaccination card they are obviously involved to a large degree.
Double tap (again).
Mods: have your IT guys look into this, it's happening a lot in the last 2 or 3 days.
Totally voluntary for me. I’m a nursing student and work as an ICU tech, so I could’ve gotten Pfizer through work or Moderna through school. Either would’ve been fine for me, but school was more convenient. I had the opportunity to get the Moderna vaccine because there were extras at the vaccine clinic we were working at. 1st dose no problems. I was sleepy but it could be because I work nights and I was probably tired from waking up at 0500 for clinical. 2nd dose I had a low grade fever*, chills, and a headache about 15 hours after the shot, but 400 mg ibuprofen and 6 hours of sleep cured that. I was back to normal when I woke up.
*I say fever because I usually run about 97.4 to 97.9, and my temp was 99.6 with sensation of chills. Technically not febrile, but also technically a fever compared to my baseline.
Totally voluntary for me. I’m a nursing student and work as an ICU tech, so I could’ve gotten Pfizer through work or Moderna through school. Either would’ve been fine for me, but school was more convenient. I had the opportunity to get the Moderna vaccine because there were extras at the vaccine clinic we were working at. 1st dose no problems. I was sleepy but it could be because I work nights and I was probably tired from waking up at 0500 for clinical. 2nd dose I had a low grade fever*, chills, and a headache about 15 hours after the shot, but 400 mg ibuprofen and 6 hours of sleep cured that. I was back to normal when I woke up.
*I say fever because I usually run about 97.4 to 97.9, and my temp was 99.6 with sensation of chills. Technically not febrile, but also technically a fever compared to my baseline.
It doesn't take much of a temp to make you feel like shit though. While certainly not life-threatening, you will wish it was tomorrow!
ThirdWatcher
04-02-21, 22:56
... the nurse was a military nurse working at mass vaccination site. She was really good. But I bet a lot of you guys don't have fond memories of the military and needles lol...
That’s because they used those “jet injectors” that hurt like h***, give me a needle any day over those things...
Kung flu vaccine status: I’ve been taking regular shots of Krobar cask strength 117 proof
Required for work?: My boss says he’ll fire me if I take it (self employed).
Side effects: easing of sore muscles at the end of long work days, state of relaxation, bbq’s with friends, great times, lots of laughs.
That’s because they used those “jet injectors” that hurt like h***, give me a needle any day over those things...
Not to derail the thread but if you held still those injector guns didn't hurt at all. If you flinched they could actually cut you. Wonder if they're still in use?
Got the credentials only.
ThirdWatcher
04-03-21, 18:43
Not to derail the thread but if you held still those injector guns didn't hurt at all. If you flinched they could actually cut you. Wonder if they're still in use?
Well, I didn’t flinch (always look away) and they still hurt. I believe they quit using them due to cross-contamination concerns.
Well, I didn’t flinch (always look away) and they still hurt. I believe they quit using them due to cross-contamination concerns.
lol
I used to have my uncle's basic training "yearbook" from Ft. Knox in like 1967 or 68. Kinda cool because they were using M14's at the time. Nonetheless, they had pics of guys at reception station getting those injector gun shots. I recall thinking "I wonder if those hurt?". Well about 16 years later in 1983 they were still using them. I was like "WTF?" :fie: I don't recall it hurting any more than a needle shot. And yeah, although I work in the medical field I still don't look at it when I'm on the receiving end.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-06-21, 08:32
#2 Pfizer. 24hrs later still no reaction other than modest upper arm soreness where I got the shot.
One observation.... guys wearing US Army patches on their uniforms were running the vaccine site when I got my first shot. Things went smooth and fast. Those guys were apparently replaced by folks who look like they work at the DMV, sitting in chairs doing nothing looking confused. Not smooth nor fast.
ThirdWatcher
04-07-21, 01:40
I got my shot at Costco. I only deal with two outfits for my healthcare, my primary care physician at our local hospital (who I’ve been seeing for over twenty years) and Costco. I’ve gotten my meds and most of my flu shots and Shingrix shots from the Costco Pharmacy. Good people.
Got my 1st shot (Moderna) this morning. Had to go to another county (Morgan County health dept.) but the process was smooth and well organized - no drama added.
Andy
The local media here is like 75% infomercial for Corona. Fake stats, Hyping the "vaccine" like madness... and now their hyping up the CDC card. You NEVER see anyone on the show questioning these "vaccines".
They're flat out lying about the vaccine and claiming it will reduce the spread. I think it will increase the spread when people let their guards down.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-07-21, 17:17
So far is sounds like vaccine reactions are on par with what Fauci and crew said it would be... not much. I'll be at two weeks past the 2nd injection about the same time the county said it will lift mask mandates. It's been a long year...
The local media here is like 75% infomercial for Corona. Fake stats, Hyping the "vaccine" like madness... and now their hyping up the CDC card. You NEVER see anyone on the show questioning these "vaccines".
They're flat out lying about the vaccine and claiming it will reduce the spread. I think it will increase the spread when people let their guards down.
Just follow the money. My local clinic is making bank on testing and vaccines.
The local media here is like 75% infomercial for Corona. Fake stats, Hyping the "vaccine" like madness... and now their hyping up the CDC card. You NEVER see anyone on the show questioning these "vaccines".
They're flat out lying about the vaccine and claiming it will reduce the spread. I think it will increase the spread when people let their guards down.
Just follow the money. My local clinic is making bank on testing and vaccines.
I am definitely feeling the fatigue. This better work better than the Yellow Fever vaccine. I still think Asian women are kinda hot after I don't know how many of the shots.
Andy
Got 2nd Pfizer yesterday. Nurse not as great with the needle as I’ve had in the past, so my arm is more sore than last time, but nothing harsh.
No other symptoms.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Wife got the Pfizer vaccine. Had low grade fever and fatigue after 1st shot for a couple of days. Nothing after the 2nd shot.
I got the J&J 1 shot yesterday. Arm is sore today. Need to wait a couple of weeks and get the shingles vaccine I'm been putting off. I've heard not so nice things about that one.
According to Todd Herman, Covid-19 is nothing but the common cold.
Why is anybody worried about vaccination?
We got our J&J shots this morning. 48 male 73 male and 71 female. Dad has COPD so it's a better safe than sorry thing. So far so good on side effects <knock on wood> and we are keeping a positive mental outlook that we dont have any.
Edit for Update: No one had any side effects that we noticed. Maybe a slight headache in the afternoon but it rained pretty good yesterday and we went back to town so might have been eye strain driving/looking out in the rain.
According to Todd Herman, Covid-19 is nothing but the common cold.
Why is anybody worried about vaccination?This seals it. If there was any doubt before it's very clear you're just a troll and have nothing of value to contribute.
Go troll somewhere else, this thread is for information, not posturing
ChattanoogaPhil
04-11-21, 10:15
J&J vaccine is reportedly having some issues.
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Georgia becomes third state to shut down Johnson & Johnson vaccine site after adverse reactions
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/johnson-johnson-vaccine-georgia-shut-down-side-effects/
According to Todd Herman, Covid-19 is nothing but the common cold.
Why is anybody worried about vaccination?
No idea who that is...
He's wrong...
Not the intent/focus of the thread to debate vaccines...
Mods already told people to stay focused.
Day 2 and 3 haven't been so hot after the J&J shot. Yesterday, my arm felt like someone had taken a baseball bat to it. Last night I started to feel lethargic and have running a low grade fever with aches since. Similar to what happened in years past when I would sometimes get the flu shot. Arm is still sore today, but not as bad. The pain is deep like bone bruise. Nothing earth shattering, but apparently I didn't escape scot free.
From what I'm seeing, last week J&J released 4m doses. This week, due to issues, they expect around 700k.
J&J vaccine is reportedly having some issues.
-------
Georgia becomes third state to shut down Johnson & Johnson vaccine site after adverse reactions
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/johnson-johnson-vaccine-georgia-shut-down-side-effects/
The wife (58 Y/O) received the Johnson and Johnson vaccine several days ago and she has had zero issues.
IKnowNotEverything
04-11-21, 21:53
J&J last Wednesday, sore shoulder for three days and nothing else. I liked that it is a one-dose adenovirus transmission method and we know the rates against the current variants.
Interested to see the results of their two-dose regimen.
Already lost the ****ing card. 39m
FDA has halted the jj vacs...
FDA has halted the jj vacs...
Yes. It seems like the same issue as the AstraZeneca vaccine. And also very rare. It apparently happens to some people who have a low platelet count and there is a reaction that causes clotting. The real problem is that you can’t treat the clotting problem how you normally would in people with low platelet counts.
Here’s a good layman’s explanation of it
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/04/us-cdc-fda-call-for-pause-in-use-of-jj-vaccine-due-to-rare-blood-clots/
Sent from 80ms in the future
Several friends received Pfizer 2nd dose last week. Age range from late 30s to late 40s. No side effects
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FDA has halted the jj vacs...Yep, can't have a % of blood clot incidents similar to that of the natural population.
Put another way, your chances are better of getting struck by lightning than to have a blood clot from the J&J vaccine.
Yep, can't have a % of blood clot incidents similar to that of the natural population.
Put another way, your chances are better of getting struck by lightning than to have a blood clot from the J&J vaccine.
6 cases in millions of doses. People - including some with the sci/med background to know better - don't seem to get risk/benefit.
6 cases in millions of doses. People - including some with the sci/med background to know better - don't seem to get risk/benefit.
And my understanding is these cases were consistently with people who had known blood/platelet issue and probably were not good candidates for any vaccine. (Just like the high allergic reaction folks, they have issues with any vaccine)
Brother had J&J, zero side effects.
My view: Biden Admin and Fauci is screwing up on this.
In GA we are seeing significantly reduced fatalities, and cases are down to similar level as last June. Hospitalizations are way down.
Some of this is the cycle and getting out of winter. But the reduced fatalities Dr's are saying is the impact of increased vaccination.
Conjecture on number of cases is younger/less risk folks are simply done with distancing, closures, etc. And simply don't care if they get it. (Most college folks already have had it)
ChattanoogaPhil
04-14-21, 08:45
According to Vaccine Tracker about 120M people in the US have got the needle at least once. Probably been some deaths among those 120M during the past four months. Not everything is cause/effect.
https://i.imgur.com/190dNyC.png
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations
6 cases in millions of doses. People - including some with the sci/med background to know better - don't seem to get risk/benefit.
Agreed. We should move forward and vaccinate anyone who wants the vaccine. Our local hospital was down to 10 people hospitalized with COVID-19 until early April. The number of patients that required hospitalization jumped to 80 in less than one week.
And my understanding is these cases were consistently with people who had known blood/platelet issue and probably were not good candidates for any vaccine. (Just like the high allergic reaction folks, they have issues with any vaccine)
Brother had J&J, zero side effects.
My view: Biden Admin and Fauci is screwing up on this.
In GA we are seeing significantly reduced fatalities, and cases are down to similar level as last June. Hospitalizations are way down.
Some of this is the cycle and getting out of winter. But the reduced fatalities Dr's are saying is the impact of increased vaccination.
Conjecture on number of cases is younger/less risk folks are simply done with distancing, closures, etc. And simply don't care if they get it. (Most college folks already have had it)
And or, they were among the population that were at even greater risk of dying from blood clots from exposure to covid, a known effect of covid in a small % of people. I don't know the details of it to say one way or another, but again, risk/benefit may still favor them getting the vaccine.
According to Vaccine Tracker about 120M people in the US have got the needle at least once. Probably been some deaths among those 120M during the past four months. Not everything is cause/effect.
That's why RCT's are conducted and leaping to conclusions is always a mistake. It's also while, as tempting as it is, you can't pull cause/effect from epi/correlational data. Human nature is always to look for, and find, cause and effect to correlations. Likely a survival mechanism that kept us alive, but is also our downfall in so many areas of modern life.
Agreed. We should move forward and vaccinate anyone who wants the vaccine. Our local hospital was down to 10 people hospitalized with COVID-19 until early April. The number of patients that required hospitalization jumped to 80 in less than one week.
There's no doubt at all the risk/benefit of the vaccines favors getting the vaccine for all but a tiny % of the population. The fact the US is almost one big co morbidity at this point, the elephant in the room and a national discussion no one wants to have as they move their mask out of the way to slurp down the XXXL soda, fries, and Big Mac, but that's another topic for another day....
I had Covid the beginning of Feb. Symptoms lasted about 6 days. From the day I tested positive until the day I tested negative was only 12 days. Basically felt like a medium case of the flu for me. Regardless I got the J&J shot last Thursday. Sore injection site until yesterday. Other than that no issues at all.
Status: Just Got Second Pfizer Shot.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-19-21, 10:54
Our county opened up vaccine eligibility to everyone on April 5th in an effort to get more folks vaccinated. You'd think that would have brought in a lot more people but it seems to have had the opposite effect. They even tried a Sunday vaccine day. The below appointment scheduled had been up for days but few signed up. Now they're using mobile vaccine units in an effort to jab people in the street.
https://i.imgur.com/rAAIWW8.png
Pfizer was first around here so naturally there will be more signing up for their second shot. But still... this is all that signed up for today.
https://i.imgur.com/gOrWtf1.png
Interesting developments:
Vaccines that can protect against many coronaviruses could prevent another pandemic
By Jon CohenApr. 15, 2021 , 1:09 PM
In 2017, three leading vaccine researchers submitted a grant application with an ambitious goal. At the time, no one had proved a vaccine could stop even a single beta coronavirus—the notorious viral group then known to include the lethal agents of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS), as well as several causes of the common cold and many bat viruses. But these researchers wanted to develop a vaccine against them all.
Grant reviewers at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) deemed the plan “outstanding.” But they gave the proposal a low priority score, dooming its bid for funding. “The significance for developing a pan-coronavirus vaccine may not be high,” they wrote, apparently unconvinced that the viruses pose a global threat.
How things have changed.
Cont:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/04/vaccines-can-protect-against-many-coronaviruses-could-prevent-another-pandemic
Status: Just Got Second Pfizer Shot.
Any side effects? I get my second dose of Pfizer tomorrow.
Any side effects? I get my second dose of Pfizer tomorrow.
So far so good. Just tad tired, same as first shot. See what tomorrow ls like.
Following day, shoulder much more sore than the first time, just really tired today.
Not taking this bullshit. Not giving up my rights.
Claiming religious reasons and conscientious objection here. You can all have my shot.
I don’t know who appointed Fauci as Jesus Christ but he can kiss my ass. No mask. No shot. Everybody needs to get over it.
Call me a Philistine or a Caveman but no. Hell no. Nobody gave up their sovereignty nor dignity during Polio, Smallpox, AIDS, nor Swine Flu (which I had). So I am not doing it now.
Send Bachelors and Atheists.
Firefly,
Are you off your meds again?
I don’t know who appointed Fauci as Jesus Christ .
..... Bill Gates! [emoji15][emoji16]
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
I received the second dose of Pfizer vaccine 24 hours ago. The only effect I feel is my arm is a little sore, which is normal after any other injection. A few pushups will take care of the soreness.
Crow Hunter
04-21-21, 11:55
Got my second shot of the Pfizer yesterday. Other than a "frogged" arm feeling, no issues, like the flu shot for me (both shots).
My department had 5 people all get vaccinated at the same time with me.
Three of us had no effects at all, only one previously had tested positive for the virus. Of the other two, one feels like dog crap but still came in to work. One said he felt like death warmed over (my most dedicated employee by the way) and called in.
My wife had the Moderna shot last Friday and by late Friday night, she felt bad. Saturday, she said that she felt worse than when she actually HAD Covid, although by the end of the day she was feeling fine.
Another VERY good vid by the legit SME on wide array of topics COVID Variants vs. Coronavirus Vaccines (AstraZeneca, Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson) + Immunity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aOMs1loXN0
Witness Me for posterity.
I have gotten notarized and written exemption from getting this vaccine on religious grounds that cannot be retroactively rescinded. Plus a Hold Harmless.
No. I am not getting this vaccine. I firmly believe that in five years or sooner you will see some serious lawsuits over its contents.
If you are over 50 and already have children, you may not care. There is reason to believe this vaccine, especially the J&J one, can cause blood clotting and sterility.
They are pushing hard to get people to take a rushed cocktail that still hasn’t been fully time tested.
I do feel that it is important to be a voice of dissent at this time as they are using a manufactured pandemic in order to backhandedly govern with extrajudicial influence and power. Denying you employment, commerce, and travel under the auspices of a disease with a 99.5% survival rate. In over a year, I have handled dead bodies, been in and out of hospitals on business, been in unsanitary homes, and been exposed to people with Covid. Either I have contracted the disease and it worked itself through my system asymptotically, I have developed an immunity based on previous exposures, or I simply haven’t caught it.
I don’t wear a mask unless absolutely necessary and I always use hand sanitizer.
Regardless I do not believe this vaccine is being forwarded out of a concern for my health.
To those who think I am “off my meds”, I cite MK ULTRA, Tuskegee Syphilis, Gulf War Syndrome, and Thalidomide Children.
ThirdWatcher
04-24-21, 04:42
I got my second Moderna shot 36 hours ago and so far no reaction. I’ve got nothing to say about anyone that doesn’t get it, that’s their business. My wife won’t get it but that’s her business.
This COVID virus seems to be extremely contagious indoors around other people and especially lethal to the elderly. If I was under the age of 40 (which I’m not) I wouldn’t get the vaccine.
I got my second Moderna shot 36 hours ago and so far no reaction. I’ve got nothing to say about anyone that doesn’t get it, that’s their business. My wife won’t get it but that’s her business.
This COVID virus seems to be extremely contagious indoors around other people and especially lethal to the elderly. If I was under the age of 40 (which I’m not) I wouldn’t get the vaccine.
A local hospital averaged 10 COVID-19 patients that required hospitalization, then jumped to 80 patients in a short period of time. Most of the patients are under the age of 40, with a lot them under the age of 30.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-24-21, 08:53
Hospitalizations of younger unvaccinated folks are on the rise across the country.
Witness Me for posterity.
I have gotten notarized and written exemption from getting this vaccine on religious grounds that cannot be retroactively rescinded. Plus a Hold Harmless.
No. I am not getting this vaccine. I firmly believe that in five years or sooner you will see some serious lawsuits over its contents.
If you are over 50 and already have children, you may not care. There is reason to believe this vaccine, especially the J&J one, can cause blood clotting and sterility.
They are pushing hard to get people to take a rushed cocktail that still hasn’t been fully time tested.
I do feel that it is important to be a voice of dissent at this time as they are using a manufactured pandemic in order to backhandedly govern with extrajudicial influence and power. Denying you employment, commerce, and travel under the auspices of a disease with a 99.5% survival rate. In over a year, I have handled dead bodies, been in and out of hospitals on business, been in unsanitary homes, and been exposed to people with Covid. Either I have contracted the disease and it worked itself through my system asymptotically, I have developed an immunity based on previous exposures, or I simply haven’t caught it.
I don’t wear a mask unless absolutely necessary and I always use hand sanitizer.
Regardless I do not believe this vaccine is being forwarded out of a concern for my health.
To those who think I am “off my meds”, I cite MK ULTRA, Tuskegee Syphilis, Gulf War Syndrome, and Thalidomide Children.
Just for accuracy's sake, COVID has a 1.8% fatality rate. That would make it a 98.2% survival rate. Not to split hairs.....
I got my second Moderna shot 36 hours ago and so far no reaction. I’ve got nothing to say about anyone that doesn’t get it, that’s their business. My wife won’t get it but that’s her business.
.
If you never had covid, it's unlikely that you will have a bad reaction to the vaccine.
Hospitalizations of younger unvaccinated folks are on the rise across the country.
As expected. While they may be younger, with obesity and other known co morbidities being so common among our generally unhealthy population, no surprises that age group not getting vaccinated, having problems.
Just for accuracy's sake, COVID has a 1.8% fatality rate. That would make it a 98.2% survival rate. Not to split hairs.....
That’s the # of tests that came back positive versus COVID deaths stat.
Way more people have had COVID than have had positive tests.
When adjusted for conservative percentages, it is a 99.5% survival rate.
The long term side affects of these “not” vaccines, will be interesting.
I will not be getting any of the MRNA “not” vaccines.
As far as I’m aware, the mRNA do not enter the nucleus of the body's cells and do not alter human DNA, so they don’t cause any genetic changes (and not just for Pfizer and Moderna, all mRNA).
mRNA is NOT the same as the viral RNA proper that a virus would use for replication. The mRNAs used by Pfizer and Moderna have been built to encode only viral proteins for the COVID-19 spike that is the easiest attack vector for our body’s defenses.
While mRNA made in cells does leave the nucleus of the cell, it does not re-enter, instead it interfaces with rRNA in the cytoplasm.
That’s why they’re using mRNA instead of another mechanism - to avoid the exact things people are worried about.
Sent from 80ms in the future
As far as I’m aware, the mRNA do not enter the nucleus of the body's cells and do not alter human DNA, so they don’t cause any genetic changes (and not just for Pfizer and Moderna, all mRNA).
mRNA is NOT the same as the viral RNA proper that a virus would use for replication. The mRNAs used by Pfizer and Moderna have been built to encode only viral proteins for the COVID-19 spike that is the easiest attack vector for our body’s defenses.
While mRNA made in cells does leave the nucleus of the cell, it does not re-enter, instead it interfaces with rRNA in the cytoplasm.
That’s why they’re using mRNA instead of another mechanism - to avoid the exact things people are worried about.
Sent from 80ms in the future
We know it does not, and claims otherwise are made by those who either don't really understand how it works, or don't care. Posted before, but deep dive on all that and much more by SME worth watching. I you wanna jump to specific topics:
00:00 Introducing Prof. Shane Crotty's Research
0:35 How long does COVID-19 "immune memory" last?
0:57 The three primary aspects of immune memory: antibodies, killer T cells, and helper T cells
2:25 The anatomy (protein makeup) of SARS-CoV-2
3:02 Why is spike protein the primary target?
5:17 Could a mutation allow SARS-CoV-2 to infect without spike protein?
7:02 Utilizing lipid nanoparticles to deliver mRNA and the role of RNA normally
9:52 What human cells does an RNA vaccine go into?
10:36 How long does mRNA from a vaccine stay in human cells?
11:44 What else goes in vaccines besides mRNA and lipid nanoparticles? Any preservatives or adjuvants?
12:30 Why are adjuvants used in many vaccines?
14:08 Protein production from mRNA
15:00 Why utilize the "extra" step of mRNA to code for protein antigens?
17:28 Are mRNA vaccines the future of vaccine development?
19:18 Any chance for mRNA to enter our cells' nucleus?
20:55 The immune response to a coronavirus vaccine
23:17 Expected symptoms from immune response to a vaccine vs. vaccine side effects
25:50 Should people who've had COVID-19 get vaccinated?
27:27 Immunity from COVID vaccine vs. a natural infection
28:30 Why does the Pfizer vaccine need to be stored so cold?
29:04 What would you say to a family member who is nervous about a rushed vaccine and RNA technology?
32:37 What about the possibility of long term side effects from RNA vaccines?
33:30 What's next for Shane Crotty's research team?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK0C5tFHze8&t=0s
We know it does not, and claims otherwise are made by those who either don't really understand how it works, or don't care. Posted before, but deep dive on all that and much more by SME worth watching. I you wanna jump to specific topics:
00:00 Introducing Prof. Shane Crotty's Research
0:35 How long does COVID-19 "immune memory" last?
0:57 The three primary aspects of immune memory: antibodies, killer T cells, and helper T cells
2:25 The anatomy (protein makeup) of SARS-CoV-2
3:02 Why is spike protein the primary target?
5:17 Could a mutation allow SARS-CoV-2 to infect without spike protein?
7:02 Utilizing lipid nanoparticles to deliver mRNA and the role of RNA normally
9:52 What human cells does an RNA vaccine go into?
10:36 How long does mRNA from a vaccine stay in human cells?
11:44 What else goes in vaccines besides mRNA and lipid nanoparticles? Any preservatives or adjuvants?
12:30 Why are adjuvants used in many vaccines?
14:08 Protein production from mRNA
15:00 Why utilize the "extra" step of mRNA to code for protein antigens?
17:28 Are mRNA vaccines the future of vaccine development?
19:18 Any chance for mRNA to enter our cells' nucleus?
20:55 The immune response to a coronavirus vaccine
23:17 Expected symptoms from immune response to a vaccine vs. vaccine side effects
25:50 Should people who've had COVID-19 get vaccinated?
27:27 Immunity from COVID vaccine vs. a natural infection
28:30 Why does the Pfizer vaccine need to be stored so cold?
29:04 What would you say to a family member who is nervous about a rushed vaccine and RNA technology?
32:37 What about the possibility of long term side effects from RNA vaccines?
33:30 What's next for Shane Crotty's research team?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK0C5tFHze8&t=0s
Yup. I was hoping to address any concerns that THCDDM4 seems to had about the mRNA shots.
Thanks for the re-primer though! I’ve got a couple of people who seem to lack accurate info on the subject.
Sent from 80ms in the future
It’s comforting to hear someone else tell you what you should do.
Quote the Zen Master, “We’ll see”
I mean we would all look like a bunch of jackasses if we totally changed our whole way of life within the span of a year on something with a 1% mortality rate because someone’s 80 year old grandma died or someone who chainsmoked caught pneumonia they couldn’t shake or someone with renal failure had depressed organ function.
I mean, we’d seriously look like jackasses
Yup. I was hoping to address any concerns that THCDDM4 seems to had about the mRNA shots.
Thanks for the re-primer though! I’ve got a couple of people who seem to lack accurate info on the subject.
Don't you mean millions? :big_boss:
Not trying to tell anyone what to do. Just trying to make sure people use accurate info in their decisions.
Too many people knee-jerk when presented with new tech in medicine, and I believe it’s helpful for folks understand the exact mechanisms and biology involved, instead of going with “genes = bad” as the default.
I don’t see it as different than dispelling people’s misinformation about the reliability of AR-15s.
After that, people are going to do what they are going to do.
Sent from 80ms in the future
chamber143
04-24-21, 14:35
I by no means am telling anyone what to do. You need to remember that if this vaccine is so safe and effective then why has every one of the vaccines been halted by one country or another, or the companies have 100 liability protection for harmful side effects or death, and lastly have not been properly tested on animals. Remember also that these are only being injected under emergency approval and the fda still hasn't approved them yet. I too am in the camp that a 99.7 survival rate is not a pandemic and I don't see the harm in waiting a year or two to see what the hell is going on. We in essence have somewhat of a bad flu going around and if you keep your immune system high and clean, you essentially don't need this. If you are old and or have co morbidity's then by all means take the thing. Just understand why you are doing it and all the media pressure has me saying nope I think I will pass. Operate on the premise of informed consent. None of the human trials will be done before the last quarter of 2022. I think I will wait to see what happens with those. And if the worst happens and its a I am legend situation, I guess I will just have to Dr Neville it.
Yup. I was hoping to address any concerns that THCDDM4 seems to had about the mRNA shots.
Thanks for the re-primer though! I’ve got a couple of people who seem to lack accurate info on the subject.
Sent from 80ms in the future
I have done extensive research on the “not” vaccine. I don’t lack accurate info- what is lacking is long term testing.
It’s crazy pill level shit- take a “vaccine” that got emergency approval with minimal trials and testing from companies that have zero liability if the “vaccine” turns out to have major risks in the long run and all they have is buckets of cash to make off of it.
Take the “vaccine” because then you’ll be safe from that totally evil worst ever cold that has a 99.5% survival rate, but hold on... you still have to wear a mask and if others don’t get the “vaccine” we’re all doomed so make sure and let’s put pressure on everyone to take it and vax shame those who won’t and tell them they just aren’t informed if they have cause for concern.
I noticed a cycle when I was still watching television years ago. You’d see a commercial for the latest and greatest drug promising to make tour life better and solve X and Y for you.
About 2-3 years later you’d see a commercial foe the same drug, only this time it was the class action lawsuit due to the drug Having so many unforeseen side effects...
And those drugs went through more rigorous testing and trials, even.
I’m 39, a little overweight but otherwise healthy. I’d have a higher percentage chance of dying from the vaccine than I would COVID at this point.
Pretty sure I already had COVID and it wasn’t fun, but I’m still vertical and above room temperature.
Take it if you want, but leave the “you’re not informed” if someone is worried about long term side effects of this not-vaccine out of the conversation.
If you think the risk is minimal from an experimental and new type of “vaccine” that was pushed through trials and “not approved” by the typical lack luster process and given emergency approval status from big pharma who has nothing but massive amounts of cash to make and absolutely no liability if shit by or sideways- well, okay...
Why is the gov pushing it so freaking hard ? This alone should freak you out !
Why if it works are they not saying no more masks ? Again obey your masters
Why are they bribing people with free things to get them ? With things like donuts that are the problem itself !
Why is it truth is muddied on purpose ? And threats the gov backing tech banning you silencing you and so on if you speak out against it
Why is it constantly changing so much around this ? Constant lies !
Follow the money !!!
Not all relate to each other but its all over the place and why are the real issues of obesity and age not being mentioned etc...
why are kids being masked when kids are not really at risk ? Those that are have been very tiny % obese or other major issues so again non issue when you compare it to diet health that is killing more kids
I do bet in 20 years you will see ads on TV with lawyers saying ‘IF YOU TOOK THE COVID VACCINE __________ CALL US” you are eligible for compensation for this and this and this and this and this and this blah blah blah !!!!
chamber143
04-24-21, 15:34
Lets also not forget that JJ and Pfizer also have two of the largest criminal lawsuits for tainted and toxic products in US history. Over 5 billion dollars in fines. I understand that some people are terrified but the numbers of total deaths in 2020 are almost identical for the previous 10 years so this was some pandemic. I am not much on vaccines to begin with but this isn't a vaccine. Its labeled as gene therapy. My genes are fine, none of this is a surprise to God and I don't need editing. How about we stop all these asshats in these BSL4 labs from weaponizing these viruses and we won't need editing. So China spreads this shit and who does our genius President side with...yeah that's right the Chicoms.
I have done extensive research on the “not” vaccine. I don’t lack accurate info- what is lacking is long term testing.
It’s crazy pill level shit- take a “vaccine” that got emergency approval with minimal trials and testing from companies that have zero liability if the “vaccine” turns out to have major risks in the long run and all they have is buckets of cash to make off of it.
Take the “vaccine” because then you’ll be safe from that totally evil worst ever cold that has a 99.5% survival rate, but hold on... you still have to wear a mask and if others don’t get the “vaccine” we’re all doomed so make sure and let’s put pressure on everyone to take it and vax shame those who won’t and tell them they just aren’t informed if they have cause for concern.
I noticed a cycle when I was still watching television years ago. You’d see a commercial for the latest and greatest drug promising to make tour life better and solve X and Y for you.
About 2-3 years later you’d see a commercial foe the same drug, only this time it was the class action lawsuit due to the drug Having so many unforeseen side effects...
And those drugs went through more rigorous testing and trials, even.
I’m 39, a little overweight but otherwise healthy. I’d have a higher percentage chance of dying from the vaccine than I would COVID at this point.
Pretty sure I already had COVID and it wasn’t fun, but I’m still vertical and above room temperature.
Take it if you want, but leave the “you’re not informed” if someone is worried about long term side effects of this not-vaccine out of the conversation.
If you think the risk is minimal from an experimental and new type of “vaccine” that was pushed through trials and “not approved” by the typical lack luster process and given emergency approval status from big pharma who has nothing but massive amounts of cash to make and absolutely no liability if shit by or sideways- well, okay...
I understand that some people are terrified but the numbers of total deaths in 2020 are almost identical for the previous 10 years so this was some pandemic.
It will be interesting how they conceal that moving forward. Right now they just say the numbers are not finalized.
Andy
I got the J&J shot only because I had told myself that IF there was one to get then that was it.....more of a "traditional" vaccine of sorts (as opposed to mRNA technology) and a "one and done" approach. I work in a hospital so have been around COVID for over a year now 5 days a week. I did it for myself, not for the altruistic "thinking of others" shit. I am not female (therefore not taking birth control), and am over 50yo. I had ZERO side effects; my arm didn't even hurt and I didn't feel like shit a day or so later.
Having said that I wholeheartedly support someone's right to choose (gee, where have I heard that before?) NOT to get the vaccine. You don't want it? Cool by me, don't get it. IMHO .gov or any other entity (including private businesses) have no right to make you take it, period. Spare me the "their place their rules" bullshit. That has been waaayyy overused and abused. You don't have a right to a job but I'm a firm believer that they don't have a right to dictate your personal/private life.
YMMV
Yeah if I had to choose JJ
and the blood clot thing does not bug me but boy it seems some are pushing that angle for some reason ? Again I wonder who is getting kick backs to bash the JJ one ?
Ditto this is a personal choice but interesting the push from our gov ?
I got the J&J shot only because I had told myself that IF there was one to get then that was it.....more of a "traditional" vaccine of sorts (as opposed to mRNA technology) and a "one and done" approach. I work in a hospital so have been around COVID for over a year now 5 days a week. I did it for myself, not for the altruistic "thinking of others" shit. I am not female (therefore not taking birth control), and am over 50yo. I had ZERO side effects; my arm didn't even hurt and I didn't feel like shit a day or so later.
Having said that I wholeheartedly support someone's right to choose (gee, where have I heard that before?) NOT to get the vaccine. You don't want it? Cool by me, don't get it. IMHO .gov or any other entity (including private businesses) have no right to make you take it, period. Spare me the "their place their rules" bullshit. That has been waaayyy overused and abused. You don't have a right to a job but I'm a firm believer that they don't have a right to dictate your personal/private life.
YMMV
I do wish to state that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but at the same time I don’t want to be a beta tester either.
That speaks more to our current situation than anything. They churn out half-assed solutions and we accept it hoping they’ll “fix it in post” as Sarah Silverman once said on Live TV unironically.
If this vaccine were so great and safe; they wouldn’t be threatening you to take it.
I don’t care how “super smart” the doctors are. They are humans influenced by governance and reputation. And money. They are also fallible.
They also have acceptable numbers of people that can die. I mean if you’ve ever been under the knife they make you sign the pink slip that says in bold that Medicine is not an exact science.
They didn’t pull this with SARS. Wanting more time for something that can kill you or have unknown long tern effects is by no means unreasonable.
Imagine a truth so unquestionably self-evident that it requires harsh penalties to enforce and censure for any form of skepticism....
Seems legit I’m so sure
I do wish to state that I am not an anti-vaxxer, but at the same time I don’t want to be a beta tester either.
That speaks more to our current situation than anything. They churn out half-assed solutions and we accept it hoping they’ll “fix it in post” as Sarah Silverman once said on Live TV unironically.
If this vaccine were so great and safe; they wouldn’t be threatening you to take it.
I don’t care how “super smart” the doctors are. They are humans influenced by governance and reputation. And money. They are also fallible.
They also have acceptable numbers of people that can die. I mean if you’ve ever been under the knife they make you sign the pink slip that says in bold that Medicine is not an exact science.
They didn’t pull this with SARS. Wanting more time for something that can kill you or have unknown long tern effects is by no means unreasonable.
Imagine a truth so unquestionably self-evident that it requires harsh penalties to enforce and censure for any form of skepticism....
Seems legit I’m so sure
^ This
Medical professionals, at least at the physician and hoity-toity Masters level, are all about statistics and numbers.
My wife is an RN and had an elderly patient die a couple years ago from a flu vaccine reaction. The resident tells my wife (who isn't big on the flu or COVID vaccines) that the guy basically "took one for the team". I was like WTF? Honestly, in the "bigger picture" over time that isn't necessarily a bad thing as stats do have value. But if you're that "one in a hundred thousand cases" sucks to be you eh? :rolleyes:
These inoculations are different in their relative hasty rush to market and the zeal by which Big Brother is strongly encouraging you to take it.
manbearpig
04-25-21, 04:09
The bottom line is that in new drug/vaccine development, there is absolutely no substitute for testing and anyone saying otherwise is either an idiot or pushing an agenda. The media blitz on TV, radio and social media proclaiming that the vaccines are "safe and effective" is appalling as none of the vaccines have passed the standard phase 1, phase 2, phase 3 and New Drug Application stages of FDA approval. If these vaccines are ever made mandatory and people are denied informed consent, regardless of if it happens before or after the vaccines are given FDA approval, that will unmistakably signal the destruction of the social contract in our society. We're seriously living in some interesting times here.
chamber143
04-25-21, 05:41
I also saw on a government website that the avg age of death from covid was something like 82, and the avg age of death in general was like 81.5 years . I also read a top doctor say that the vast majority of those that died were within a year of dying anyways. Thats not to play down the fact that this thing will kill you deader than a crocodile if your old or have a compromised immune system. I for one am in the camp that takes supplements and have for 10 years or so and watch my health and I even got covid. But I kicked it in less than 24 hours. The main reason they didn't test it yet was in 2017 they were testing these types of "vaccines" and they looked promising at first, but after 5months all the ferrets died. All! Not saying this will happen here. They have spent years trying to make vaccines for covid viruses, hiv, cancer and all kinds of other shit and they still haven't came out with those yet and we are to think that after 9 months they got this one right. I am a skeptic about damn near everything that the media and politicians spout but when damn near all the people involved in this particular vaccine have said for years their desires for population control, I'm more than skeptical. I pray this thing is safe and none of the bad things happen, but I fear they will. if your on the edge, wait a year and see what the hell is going on in that time. My grandfather was one of those that died within 3 days of getting his jab. They say it had nothing to do with his death but he was in decent health before and got sick and died so quickly. I just personally feel an agenda behind all this and if you can't see some small semblance of an agenda, you need to pray for discernment.
chamber143
04-25-21, 05:45
The bottom line is that in new drug/vaccine development, there is absolutely no substitute for testing and anyone saying otherwise is either an idiot or pushing an agenda. The media blitz on TV, radio and social media proclaiming that the vaccines are "safe and effective" is appalling as none of the vaccines have passed the standard phase 1, phase 2, phase 3 and New Drug Application stages of FDA approval. If these vaccines are ever made mandatory and people are denied informed consent, regardless of if it happens before or after the vaccines are given FDA approval, that will unmistakably signal the destruction of the social contract in our society. We're seriously living in some interesting times here.
I agree with all you stated but I don't think that they will ever make it mandatory. Only needed to function in society. And I know that this is a distinction without a difference but you will have "private businesses" saying you must have your covid pass (id) to come in or do business with them. Keep in mind many of these businesses are the same ones that say having an id to vote is racist. Upside down world I tell you.
chamber143
04-25-21, 05:51
double post. sorry. can't delete
ChattanoogaPhil
04-25-21, 07:12
As expected. While they may be younger, with obesity and other known co morbidities being so common among our generally unhealthy population, no surprises that age group not getting vaccinated, having problems.
I think the below remarks well characterize it. Younger age brackets have been sent to the back of the vaccine eligibility bus until the last couple weeks. Combined with new variants and less mitigation efforts has resulted in a demographics flip in hospitalizations.
-------
BUFFALO, N.Y. (WKBW) — Current hospitalizations rates in Erie County, the highest since February, with younger people becoming a concern.
"There's a disproportionate amount of individuals that are younger and presently being hospitalized," Dr. Thomas Russo, Chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases at the Jacobs School of Medicine at the University at Buffalo, said.
According to Dr. Russo, a mix of new COVID variants and a lack of social distancing and mask wearing are big factors. Almost all of those hospitalized under 50-years-old are not vaccinated.
"You're not seeing people going into the hospitals that have been vaccinated," Dr. Raul Vazquez of GBUAHN and Urban Family Practice said, "you're seeing the ones that haven't been (vaccinated) because the eligibility has been catching up. We are getting younger with who is getting vaccinated so that will readjust itself."
Both doctors say this points to a positive note, showing that the vaccine has worked on those who get it.
"The good news is we have protected our most vulnerable via vaccination and for the most part they are staying out of hospitals," Dr. Russo said.
https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/increase-in-younger-people-hospitalized-due-to-covid-19
^^^ I sincerely hope this shit isn't taking off again. I'm about done with it. Last June it looked like we were getting out of the woods. No, it was the eye of the hurricane and over the fall and winter it got even worse.
Like I said, I'm done with this COVID crap, all aspects of it: the masks, the "social distancing", the MOPP-4 level bullshit you have to don to take care of these people. Done I tell ya. :mad:
Oh, might I add: FVCK CHINA.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-25-21, 09:00
Yeah if I had to choose JJ
and the blood clot thing does not bug me but boy it seems some are pushing that angle for some reason ?
Considering the short time from vaccine development to arm jab it's not surprising to see any issue, even the slightest, greatly amplified.
As far as risk from vaccine-related blood clots among the general public, what I've read suggests that the far greater risk is blood clots related to severe Covid infection. I got the Pfizer vaccine which shows remarkable effectiveness at preventing severe infection.
I believe preventing severe infection is key rather than agonizing over tenths of a percent in death rates in an attempt to rationalize not getting vaccinated. I mean.... I don't consider the below a "win" in the anti-vaxxer column if the patient survives. No thanks.
https://i.imgur.com/LNO7Un2.jpg
Considering the short time from vaccine development to arm jab it's not surprising to see any issue, even the slightest, greatly amplified.
As far as vaccine-related blood clot issues among the general public, what I've read suggests that the far greater risk is blood clots related to severe Covid infection. I got the Pfizer vaccine which shows remarkable effectiveness at preventing severe infection.
I believe preventing severe infection is key rather than agonizing over tenths of a percent in death rates in an attempt to rationalize not getting vaccinated. I mean.... I don't consider the below a "win" in the anti-vaxxer column if the patient survives. No thanks.
https://i.imgur.com/LNO7Un2.jpg
If they're on a vent because of COVID they probably WON"T survive.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-25-21, 09:15
If they're on a vent because of COVID they probably WON"T survive.
Right.
Vent or not, I prefer not to be hospitalized or otherwise become ill. That was my point. As far as I'm concerned, only looking at Covid risk through a lens of death is a very myopic view.
^^^ I sincerely hope this shit isn't taking off again. I'm about done with it. Last June it looked like we were getting out of the woods. No, it was the eye of the hurricane and over the fall and winter it got even worse.
Fortunately, the vaccines appear to be performing as expected and effective against variants.
The vaccine should not be mandated by the government. Each individual should make their own decision. Unfortunately, politics has muddied the waters, which makes the decision even more difficult than it should be.
NickySantoro
04-26-21, 09:50
I'm 74 and will not be getting the shot. I know of no one without co-morbidity factors who has died from Covid. I do have personal knowledge of three persons whose deaths were attributed to Covid yet were never tested. It was "presumed" to be Covid. Presumed? My niece is an APN and told me that where she works all flu and pneumonia deaths are coded as Covid because Medicare reimbursements are higher for Covid. Follow the money to the truth.
chamber143
04-26-21, 10:41
I'm 74 and will not be getting the shot. I know of no one without co-morbidity factors who has died from Covid. I do have personal knowledge of three persons whose deaths were attributed to Covid yet were never tested. It was "presumed" to be Covid. Presumed? My niece is an APN and told me that where she works all flu and pneumonia deaths are coded as Covid because Medicare reimbursements are higher for Covid. Follow the money to the truth.
My mother is a nurse at a rather large practice and they were instructed by the NCDOH to issue everyone they suspected of having covid positive even if they tested negative! She told me her doctors had a meeting and said that no one is getting hurt by this, but the practice is really benefiting financially from it. Don’t rock the boat is how she put it to me. Really sick shit if you ask me. I hope they all rot in you know where for all of this.
My mother is a nurse at a rather large practice and they were instructed by the NCDOH to issue everyone they suspected of having covid positive even if they tested negative! She told me her doctors had a meeting and said that no one is getting hurt by this, but the practice is really benefiting financially from it. Don’t rock the boat is how she put it to me. Really sick shit if you ask me. I hope they all rot in you know where for all of this.
That's interesting...and crazy. Dang.
My institution in NC lost a ton of money with COVID; actually, we lose money for vaccinations (manpower and supplies), even though they are free.
Fortunately, the vaccines appear to be performing as expected and effective against variants.
This is what drives a lot of people (including myself) crazy. We get vaccinated, its apparently effective and we have been told its the only way to return to a normal life.
Then we are told after vaccination we still need to wear a mask that not even the most crude 3rd world hospital would consider medically effective.
Andy
P.S. This was a general rant and certainly not directed at C.P.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-26-21, 13:33
The counties are in charge of mask mandates here in Tennessee. Our county mask mandate ends in just a couple days on April 29.
I got the J&J shot only because I had told myself that IF there was one to get then that was it.....more of a "traditional" vaccine of sorts (as opposed to mRNA technology) and a "one and done" approach. I work in a hospital so have been around COVID for over a year now 5 days a week. I did it for myself, not for the altruistic "thinking of others" shit. I am not female (therefore not taking birth control), and am over 50yo. I had ZERO side effects; my arm didn't even hurt and I didn't feel like shit a day or so later.
Having said that I wholeheartedly support someone's right to choose (gee, where have I heard that before?) NOT to get the vaccine. You don't want it? Cool by me, don't get it. IMHO .gov or any other entity (including private businesses) have no right to make you take it, period. Spare me the "their place their rules" bullshit. That has been waaayyy overused and abused. You don't have a right to a job but I'm a firm believer that they don't have a right to dictate your personal/private life.
YMMV
I came to the same conclusion about the J&J. My wife and I both got the J&J two weeks ago. We are both 50 years old with no co-morbidities. 8 hours after getting the shot I developed chills, then body aches. At it’s worst my entire body, especially my fingers and toes really hurt. I was also shivering and sweating with no apparent fever. 14 hours post vaccination the shivering and sweating stopped but the aches and pains continued. 22 hours post vaccination I felt completely normal. My wife had no reaction to the J&J.
ChattanoogaPhil
04-27-21, 17:53
Lets also not forget that JJ and Pfizer also have two of the largest criminal lawsuits for tainted and toxic products in US history. Over 5 billion dollars in fines. I understand that some people are terrified but the numbers of total deaths in 2020 are almost identical for the previous 10 years so this was some pandemic. I am not much on vaccines to begin with but this isn't a vaccine. Its labeled as gene therapy. My genes are fine, none of this is a surprise to God and I don't need editing. How about we stop all these asshats in these BSL4 labs from weaponizing these viruses and we won't need editing. So China spreads this shit and who does our genius President side with...yeah that's right the Chicoms.
Provisional death estimates show 3.3 million in 2020, up a stunning 16% over 2019. CDC publishes final numbers toward the end of following year but it looks like 2020 will be the highest death rate in a century if estimates are correct.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm
Apparently, we're not the only ones.
----
Last year was the deadliest in a century, with almost as many fatalities documented in absolute terms in England and Wales in 2020 as at the height of the flu pandemic in 1918.
More than 608,000 deaths were recorded in the calendar year, with 81,653 attributable to coronavirus, according to new figures released by the Office for National Statistics. The toll pushes deaths to the highest in a century, second only to the all-time record of 611,861, in the worst year of the flu pandemic.
Excess deaths, the number of fatalities above the five-year average, rose to almost 91,000 across the UK in 2020 – the highest on record since the second world war.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/12/2020-was-deadliest-year-in-a-century-in-england-and-wales-says-ons
1_click_off
05-09-21, 07:05
https://www.yahoo.com/news/shot-arm-shot-foot-biden-225252071.html
Appears Biden and Warren would like the patents lifted or patent infringement laws ignored and have the big 3 publish their vaccine recipe….. This will really want them to develop the next needed one for whatever come around.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/shot-arm-shot-foot-biden-225252071.html
Appears Biden and Warren would like the patents lifted or patent infringement laws ignored and have the big 3 publish their vaccine recipe….. This will really want them to develop the next needed one for whatever come around.
Communists are going to commie....
Any updates? I got my second Moderna shot on the 5th. The 6th felt like a long work day due to fatigue, thats the only effect I noticed.
I work for a Space/Defense contractor and last week one of the field service managers said the quarantine requirement for a team travelling to Germany would be waived because they all have been vaccinated.
Andy
Any updates? I got my second Moderna shot on the 5th. The 6th felt like a long work day due to fatigue, thats the only effect I noticed.
I work for a Space/Defense contractor and last week one of the field service managers said the quarantine requirement for a team travelling to Germany would be waived because they all have been vaccinated.
AndyMy dad had the same shot and similar symptoms. Just felt tired
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I'm 74 and will not be getting the shot. I know of no one without co-morbidity factors who has died from Covid. I do have personal knowledge of three persons whose deaths were attributed to Covid yet were never tested. It was "presumed" to be Covid. Presumed? My niece is an APN and told me that where she works all flu and pneumonia deaths are coded as Covid because Medicare reimbursements are higher for Covid. Follow the money to the truth.Same experience here. My sister works at a local hospital and they don't even verify by testing. A hospitalist comes in and declares covid. One lady came in to get her asthma med refilled. She nearly passed out because they wouldn't give her an inhaler. They kept telling her she had covid and to go get tested then come back.
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Same experience here. My sister works at a local hospital and they don't even verify by testing. A hospitalist comes in and declares covid. One lady came in to get her asthma med refilled. She nearly passed out because they wouldn't give her an inhaler. They kept telling her she had covid and to go get tested then come back.
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To top it off, they probably posted the story on social media - "A Trumpist Covid-denier came to the hospital with Covid symptoms so severe she was gasping for breath and she kept insisting she did not have Covid and only needed an inhaler."
ChattanoogaPhil
05-14-21, 06:40
This is what drives a lot of people (including myself) crazy. We get vaccinated, its apparently effective and we have been told its the only way to return to a normal life.
Then we are told after vaccination we still need to wear a mask that not even the most crude 3rd world hospital would consider medically effective.
Andy
P.S. This was a general rant and certainly not directed at C.P.
An argument that was obviously untenable as evidence of the recent change in CDC guidelines for masks and so-called social distancing. The vaccines have performed beyond even the most optimistic expectations when operation Warp Speed was launched.
Just a few days ago Rand Paul harpooned Fauci for wearing a mask, describing it as theatre.
Bill Maher got the vax, then got COVID:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/bill-maher-tests-positive-coronavirus-real-time-taping-canceled
Could it be a false positive because of the vaccine?
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ChattanoogaPhil
05-14-21, 07:53
Vaccine doesn’t prevent infection. It prepares your immune system to fight an infection so your body doesn’t become overwhelmed with the virus and suffers symptomatic or severe infection.
Bill Maher got the vax, then got COVID:
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/bill-maher-tests-positive-coronavirus-real-time-taping-canceled
Vaccine doesn’t prevent infection. It prepares your immune system to fight an infection so your body doesn’t become overwhelmed with the virus and suffers symptomatic or severe infection.
Hence the statement from the article "He is fully vaccinated and as a result is asymptomatic and feels fine."
Wow that’s tremendous news so he’s basically like 99% of the population that had it with a little to no symptoms.
Good to know
Wow that’s tremendous news so he’s basically like 99% of the population that had it with a little to no symptoms.
Good to know
80% actually. Approx 99% of those who do show symptoms survive, but that number will continue to fluctuate a bit. As he is vaccinated, we dont know what, if any, symptoms he would have had.
Vaccine doesn’t prevent infection. It prepares your immune system to fight an infection so your body doesn’t become overwhelmed with the virus and suffers symptomatic or severe infection.
As usual, the answer is "it depends." I can pull the Pfizer stuff to see (that's what we give) to see exactly how the Pfizer vax is supposed to work, but some vaccines do exactly how you describe, and some 'camouflage' the body's receptors and although you may physically be exposed, the bug doesn't see a host.
Hence the statement from the article "He is fully vaccinated and as a result is asymptomatic and feels fine."
The problem I have with the statement is the assumption that he is asymptomatic and fine because of the vaccine.
The problem I have with the statement is the assumption that he is asymptomatic and fine because of the vaccine.
Per above, I had said we do not know, but we can say those vaccinated and exposed to covid are overwhelmingly asymptomatic. I guess we can say they made a leap there sure.
As usual, the answer is "it depends." I can pull the Pfizer stuff to see (that's what we give) to see exactly how the Pfizer vax is supposed to work, but some vaccines do exactly how you describe, and some 'camouflage' the body's receptors and although you may physically be exposed, the bug doesn't see a host.
It is the former, the vaccine exposes you to a small amount of spike protein and antibodies against it, so that if/when exposed, you have existing antibodies to the key protein by which covid enters the cell via ACEII receptor. It is really a very elegant approach and shows how far we have come in understanding viruses, immunity, etc. It is also amazing how little is known. I do think the silver lining of this otherwise FUBAR event is a Moon Shot level of progress and understanding of viral research and such.
Per above, I had said we do not know, but we can say those vaccinated and exposed to covid are overwhelmingly asymptomatic. I guess we can say they made a leap there sure.
Follow me: if a tree falls and no one is around, does it make a sound?
If everyone who is vaccinated never gets a test, are they asymptomatic, or do they never get it? The only way to settle the question "if you get the vaccine can you still get covid; if so, what is the probability?" is that everyone who gets the vax also gets frequent testing. Otherwise, it will forever be a guessing game.
If I get a flu vax, I can get the flu, but the probability that I get the strain for which I was vaccinated is extraordinarily low. Normally these people who yammer "I got the flu shot and I got the flu" get a different strain.
Still far too many questions for me to be comfortable getting the vaccine. Edited to add, if you are vaccinated and can now ditch your mask, does that mean that they realize masks aren't working? Does it mean that if you have been vaccinated and are still able to get it (even asymptomatically) you cannot spread it? If you get the vaccine what is the probability of getting it vice no vaccine? What percentage of people convert with symptoms, either mild, mod, or severe?
It is the former, the vaccine exposes you to a small amount of spike protein and antibodies against it, so that if/when exposed, you have existing antibodies to the key protein by which covid enters the cell via ACEII receptor. It is really a very elegant approach and shows how far we have come in understanding viruses, immunity, etc. It is also amazing how little is known. I do think the silver lining of this otherwise FUBAR event is a Moon Shot level of progress and understanding of viral research and such.
Thanks; I have back-burnered all of my Pfizer stuff because I have moved on to the other 75 collateral duties at work, and I just can't remember.
I do think the result of the past year is indeed the leap of technology in understanding viruses and the engineering of vaccines. I do think that in 50, 75, 100 years it'll be seen on the same level as the invention of penicillin or the rapid development of the polio vaccine.
Follow me: if a tree falls and no one is around, does it make a sound?
Yes.
If everyone who is vaccinated never gets a test, are they asymptomatic, or do they never get it? The only way to settle the question "if you get the vaccine can you still get covid; if so, what is the probability?" is that everyone who gets the vax also gets frequent testing. Otherwise, it will forever be a guessing game.
If I get a flu vax, I can get the flu, but the probability that I get the strain for which I was vaccinated is extraordinarily low. Normally these people who yammer "I got the flu shot and I got the flu" get a different strain.
Still far too many questions for me to be comfortable getting the vaccine.
Is with data, which exists. I guess I am being dense here as, while I sorta get what your saying, I am not totally getting why you are saying it. Personally, most of my Qs have been answered in terms of comfort level of risk/benefit.
I posted this a while back, but a deep dive on the topic and worth a view via SME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK0C5tFHze8&t=0s
Yes.
Is with data, which exists. I guess I am being dense here as, while I sorta get what your saying, I am not totally getting why you are saying it. Personally, most of my Qs have been answered in terms of comfort level of risk/benefit.
I posted this a while back, but a deep dive on the topic and worth a view via SME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK0C5tFHze8&t=0s
Data exists, and is evolving with new data, which is good. With all the fuzzy math, with VAERS, with so many proclamations about the the vax will and will not allow you to do (in or out of masks), I am still not comfortable getting it.
I said what I said because given the data of virulence and probability of severe disability or death, the vaccine is not the panacea it is claimed to be. If I can't get it and be assured that I will neither catch or nor pass it, then what's the point?
Data exists, and is evolving with new data, which is good. With all the fuzzy math, with VAERS, with so many proclamations about the the vax will and will not allow you to do (in or out of masks), I am still not comfortable getting it.
I said what I said because given the data of virulence and probability of severe disability or death, the vaccine is not the panacea it is claimed to be. If I can't get it and be assured that I will neither catch or nor pass it, then what's the point?
I don't think they ever said it would prevent you from getting it. It's supposed to be pretty good at preventing you from getting sick enough to be hospitalized and nearly certain to prevent you from dying of COVID. Like I said earlier, I 100% support people's right to NOT get vaccinated if they don't want to (and that extends to that retarded flu vaccine they push every year). Wife and I both got the J&J; she had a sore arm and nothing else, I had zero issues. YMMV.
ChattanoogaPhil
05-14-21, 09:54
As usual, the answer is "it depends." I can pull the Pfizer stuff to see (that's what we give) to see exactly how the Pfizer vax is supposed to work, but some vaccines do exactly how you describe, and some 'camouflage' the body's receptors and although you may physically be exposed, the bug doesn't see a host.
Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=how+covid+vaccinations+work&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=how+covid+vaccinations+work&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
Yes, thanks. I have all of the Pfizer info; like, 800 pages. But that was 25 work projects ago and I don't remember.
Why would folks who have been vaccinated even get tested if they have no symptoms / feel ill??
I don't think they ever said it would prevent you from getting it. It's supposed to be pretty good at preventing you from getting sick enough to be hospitalized and nearly certain to prevent you from dying of COVID. Like I said earlier, I 100% support people's right to NOT get vaccinated if they don't want to (and that extends to that retarded flu vaccine they push every year). Wife and I both got the J&J; she had a sore arm and nothing else, I had zero issues. YMMV.
No vaccine is 100%, and almost every vaccine is seen as "good enough" if it's efficacy is > 90%. Some approach 100%. I had the cholera vax; I got cholera (great weight loss program by the way).
I sit in no judgment for people who want it, or don't want it, and respectfully ask for the same consideration (HUGE vax-shaming where I work). I advocate for people to get ANY vax based on their own risk-benefit probability.
ChattanoogaPhil
05-14-21, 10:35
Follow me: if a tree falls and no one is around, does it make a sound?
If everyone who is vaccinated never gets a test, are they asymptomatic, or do they never get it? The only way to settle the question "if you get the vaccine can you still get covid; if so, what is the probability?" is that everyone who gets the vax also gets frequent testing. Otherwise, it will forever be a guessing game.
Vaccine trials have answered the questions about the likelihood of severe infection of those vaccinated vs not. As far as preventing all symptoms or mild symptoms that's more of an exercise in curiosity than useful consideration of whether or not to get vaccinated. My criteria for vaccination is preventing severe infection, not preventing a sneeze.
Vaccine trials have answered the questions about the likelihood of severe infection of those vaccinated vs not. As far as preventing all symptoms or mild symptoms that's more of an exercise in curiosity than useful consideration of whether or not to get vaccinated. My criteria for vaccination is preventing severe infection, not preventing a sneeze.
For me it's not DYING from the the virus that's important. It'd be great to not get sick at all, but getting sick is a far cry from the cases I've seen where COVID just has your number and nothing they throw at it works.....you're screwed. I'd greatly prefer to not be one of those cases.
No vaccine is 100%, and almost every vaccine is seen as "good enough" if it's efficacy is > 90%. Some approach 100%. I had the cholera vax; I got cholera (great weight loss program by the way). <No thanks!
I sit in no judgment for people who want it, or don't want it, and respectfully ask for the same consideration (HUGE vax-shaming where I work). I advocate for people to get ANY vax based on their own risk-benefit probability.
Oh nothing is 100% for sure, but from what I've read during the studies NO ONE who got vaccinated died. Some got sick, but none croaked. Now that millions of shots have been given there may be a couple of cases where that is not true, but a 99.99999% chance of not dying sounds pretty good to me. Like you said, in this country we make free choices, and no one should be forced into something like that.
I might add that there is a reason my wife and I opted for J&J and not the mRNA ones. I know some here will excoriate me for this but there's something I don't trust about those vaccines and the way they work. The J&J, to me at least, was the one I said I'd get if I got one at all, as it follows a more "traditional" approach, not mRNA reprogramming.
I don't think this thread was intended to be a debate about the morality or effectiveness of the vaccine. There are strong feelings on both sides of the two.
I honestly wish people would get or not get the vaccine based on what they think is the right answer and not worry about what other grown-ass adults are doing.
FWIW, I got both Phizer shots and a little fatigue was the only complication.
Andy
Why would folks who have been vaccinated even get tested if they have no symptoms / feel ill??They probably test everyone on set regardless
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Vaccine trials have answered the questions about the likelihood of severe infection of those vaccinated vs not. As far as preventing all symptoms or mild symptoms that's more of an exercise in curiosity than useful consideration of whether or not to get vaccinated. My criteria for vaccination is preventing severe infection, not preventing a sneeze.
The Pfizer phase 2/3 info doesn't project it, only what the study participants have had. Of course, if the statistics are right it can be used as a sample when applied to the population, but not sure that given the VAERS data that it's within the MOE.
I will ruminate on your criteria as to what constitutes a "good" (my word) vaccine. Per my post above (#199), no vaccine is 100% but some are close. For some "good enough" is good enough; others demand or need that close-to-100%.
Since now I am no longer in the military and largely have a say (respective to what my employer demands), I use risk-benefit analysis to figure out whether or not I get any vaccine. I got hep A when I was in the Navy; given the probability of a) getting the disease and b) not being severe if I did, I probably would not have gotten it had I a choice.
At the end of the day, like I also said previously, I am not judging people for getting it/not getting it.
Oh nothing is 100% for sure, but from what I've read during the studies NO ONE who got vaccinated died. Some got sick, but none croaked. Now that millions of shots have been given there may be a couple of cases where that is not true, but a 99.99999% chance of not dying sounds pretty good to me. Like you said, in this country we make free choices, and no one should be forced into something like that.
I might add that there is a reason my wife and I opted for J&J and not the mRNA ones. I know some here will excoriate me for this but there's something I don't trust about those vaccines and the way they work. The J&J, to me at least, was the one I said I'd get if I got one at all, as it follows a more "traditional" approach, not mRNA reprogramming.
I also think your risk is higher than most given what you do. If I still worked bedside, I might have also received it.
Oh nothing is 100% for sure, but from what I've read during the studies NO ONE who got vaccinated died. Some got sick, but none croaked. Now that millions of shots have been given there may be a couple of cases where that is not true, but a 99.99999% chance of not dying sounds pretty good to me. Like you said, in this country we make free choices, and no one should be forced into something like that.
I might add that there is a reason my wife and I opted for J&J and not the mRNA ones. I know some here will excoriate me for this but there's something I don't trust about those vaccines and the way they work. The J&J, to me at least, was the one I said I'd get if I got one at all, as it follows a more "traditional" approach, not mRNA reprogramming.
After taking a deep dive into the science and having to refresh on my bio chem and cell bio and such, I came to trust the mRNA vaccines more than the more traditional J&J approach personally. The single shot is what mostly appeals with the J&J but one shot of the mRNA stuff does add a significant protection.
I don't think this thread was intended to be a debate about the morality or effectiveness of the vaccine. There are strong feelings on both sides of the two.
I honestly wish people would get or not get the vaccine based on what they think is the right answer and not worry about what other grown-ass adults are doing.
FWIW, I got both Phizer shots and a little fatigue was the only complication.
Andy
I understand both ends of the spectrum on that one. The issue is, in this case, what one person does can impact the other grown-ass adults. I see it more like smoking in an enclosed space, it does in fact impact others. Smoke at home, your biz. In the restaurant I am trying to eat in, not so much.
I see that unlike some examples, it is more equivalent to my smoking example than the "my body my choice" POV in this case.
I would never support mandated vaccinations, but I do understand the reasons for strongly suggesting people get vaccinated.
What I do like seeing is people not getting the vaccines based on demonstrably false pseudo science / conspiracy BS they read about on a meme or something.
People that weigh legit risk/benefit and make an informed decision, I understand.
The Q is, do those then vaccinated need to be protected from those who didn't get it? The answer appears to be no, so it probably ends up as you posit, that as long as someone is vaccinated, they don't really need to stress about what others are doing, but, that's not how I would feel minus effective safe vaccines that are now available and easy to access.
I understand both ends of the spectrum on that one. The issue is, in this case, what one person does can impact the other grown-ass adults. I see it more like smoking in an enclosed space, it does in fact impact others. Smoke at home, your biz. In the restaurant I am trying to eat in, not so much.
I see that unlike some examples, it is more equivalent to my smoking example than the "my body my choice" POV in this case.
I would never support mandated vaccinations, but I do understand the reasons for strongly suggesting people get vaccinated.
What I do like seeing is people not getting the vaccines based on demonstrably false pseudo science / conspiracy BS they read about on a meme or something.
People that weigh legit risk/benefit and make an informed decision, I understand.
The Q is, do those then vaccinated need to be protected from those who didn't get it? The answer appears to be no, so it probably ends up as you posit, that as long as someone is vaccinated, they don't really need to stress about what others are doing, but, that's not how I would feel minus effective safe vaccines that are now available and easy to access.
The bigger issue as alluded isn't whether one should/should not, but how they make that decision (based on posts above)? Here's what people are judging to inform their opinions:
April 21 article, vaccinated people can still spread the virus to others, and per CDC "we’re still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19."
April 2 article, On Monday, CDC director Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky made a comment in an interview with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow that caused a stir of controversy in the scientific community. "Our data from the CDC today suggests, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don`t get sick, and that it`s not just in the clinical trials but it`s also in real-world data,” Walensky said, creating the assumption that transmission from a vaccinated person was impossible.
News that's not really news, how are people making informed decisions when the CDC can't get their shi# straight? This is not limited to 'just' the CDC, but this has been the singular issue leading to distrust and misinformation since March, 2020.
I make my decisions based on the fact I am a 'reasonably' intelligent fella, I work in healthcare, and I have our institution's data at my fingertips and speak to the HMFIC frequently.
I wholeheartedly agree people should come to a decision based on the best evidence and their own moral/ethical/religious compass, but 'the best evidence' is very elusive.
I did a ton of research & there was simply no reason to get an emergency use only jab where it's over 99% survivable & we have available therapeutics that stop it dead in it's tracks if taken early...Many Many Dr's have come out against the jab & nobody can claim ownership of their research being correct. Vaers continues to report tons of adverse reactions & some deaths. My entire family other than our household has gotten the jab & I support their decision. Bottom line is The long term research needed is happening in live trials right now.
The bigger issue as alluded isn't whether one should/should not, but how they make that decision (based on posts above)? Here's what people are judging to inform their opinions:
April 21 article, vaccinated people can still spread the virus to others, and per CDC "we’re still learning how vaccines will affect the spread of COVID-19."
April 2 article, On Monday, CDC director Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky made a comment in an interview with MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow that caused a stir of controversy in the scientific community. "Our data from the CDC today suggests, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don`t get sick, and that it`s not just in the clinical trials but it`s also in real-world data,” Walensky said, creating the assumption that transmission from a vaccinated person was impossible.
News that's not really news, how are people making informed decisions when the CDC can't get their shi# straight? This is not limited to 'just' the CDC, but this has been the singular issue leading to distrust and misinformation since March, 2020.
I make my decisions based on the fact I am a 'reasonably' intelligent fella, I work in healthcare, and I have our institution's data at my fingertips and speak to the HMFIC frequently.
I wholeheartedly agree people should come to a decision based on the best evidence and their own moral/ethical/religious compass, but 'the best evidence' is very elusive.
Confusion due to what often appears conflicting messages and such are understandable, even for people like you and I who try to keep up with it. I'm talking about those claiming they will not take it because it changes your DNA (false), has not gone through phase 1/2/3 clinical trials (false), and or, causes viral shedding (false) and women to become sterile (also false), and a litany of other BS from Alex Jones level derpa derps, and some with the sci/med background to know better, but too desperate for their 15 minutes O fame to not know when the shut their pie holes. Next level of that is the conspiracy stuff that's just sad, Bill Gates adding nano bots to the vaccine to start mind control, and into flat earth level of dumb.
For myself, I was not in a hurry to be first online to be sure, but after doing my deeper dives, waiting a little while for the real world beta testers, and so forth, I felt comfortable wit it, and feel the evidence strongly favors risk/benefit in favor of getting it, as I do have some risk factors. If I was 25, in great shape, not being close to say grandma, etc, I may feel differently, but I do get the push for having as high a % of the population vaccinated as possible.
You still get someone who says "not takin' the vaccine cuz covis 'only' kills 1%" and 10 minutes later same person saying "Not taking the vaccine cuz 0.00000003% of people may get blod clots"
That's feelz over facts kinda logic there.
After taking a deep dive into the science and having to refresh on my bio chem and cell bio and such, I came to trust the mRNA vaccines more than the more traditional J&J approach personally.
Why, please?
SomeOtherGuy
05-14-21, 15:04
Saying no for now, but monitoring progress. Once I'm convinced that a particular vaccine is really safe and effective, I'm likely to get it.
I was initially very keen on the J&J vaccine because I mistakenly thought it was a conventional vaccine using proven technology. NOPE! It's a viral vector vaccine and not ordinary or well proven.
There are some truly conventional vaccines in development. For us in the USA, Novavax has the most likely candidate, and it may be coming quite soon.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/what-is-the-novavax-vaccine-and-how-does-it-work/ar-BB1cixrd
From what I can understand, this approach has been used successfully for other vaccines, and seems to have a low risk of unpredictable side effects.
I agree 100% with chuckman's views and approach. Anyone concerned about their own risk from Covid-19 illness, more so than the vaccine, should go get vaccinated and assume they are safe. And leave everyone else alone. Reminder that none of the current vaccines have full FDA approval - rather than an emergency exemption (EUA) - and none of them are based on fully proven approaches. And fully approved medications can still kill, just look at Vioxx; or maim, look at Thalidomide. (https://www.drugwatch.com/vioxx/ if you are under 30 or don't remember.)
Why, please?
The mechanism by which they work. Very "simple" and highly targeted using the cells own machinery via mRNA. I highly recommend watching the vid in post #193 for detailed answers from SME.
So buddy of mine, tough LEO in good shape, mid 40s, etc, been in bed for 12 days with Covid. His entire family sick, he is worst symptom wise. He said it is kicking his ass (his words) and he figured he would have mild symptoms as others he knew did. I gave him a list of supps to take, and some meds to talk to his doc about, and wished him well. He was a bit of a covid denier only the flue type. Hopefully he does not have any long term effects.
So buddy of mine, tough LEO in good shape, mid 40s, etc, been in bed for 12 days with Covid. His entire family sick, he is worst symptom wise. He said it is kicking his ass (his words) and he figured he would have mild symptoms as others he knew did. I gave him a list of supps to take, and some meds to talk to his doc about, and wished him well. He was a bit of a covid denier only the flue type. Hopefully he does not have any long term effects.I know about a 100 people who got sick. Some I know through other people. Age ranging from children around 10 to grandparents in their 80s. Most of the people being in the 50-65 range. Two of the people were recently on chemo. One had finished within that year and the other had finished after covid hit, so pretty recently. Both those people are over 65. Neither was hospitalized and both were fine after a few days.
No one died and only 3 were hospitalized. Out of those 3 one was probably more in panic than severely sick. Complained about difficulty breathing even though all hospital equipment showed otherwise. Most of these people are life long smokers. Some occasional, some heavy.
I'm not saying this is just the flu in the terms of what we think of as the flu. Aft all the Spanish Flu was also a flu. Nor am I passing judgment on people wearing/not wearing masks, pro/anti vax. Whatever floats your boat!
What I will say, from my observations those people who I know we're sick 99.9% of them are foreigners who did not grow up eating S.A.D nor do they do to this day. The type of food is much more varied and more often than not whole. Some of my friends from other countries don't have mask mandates and no lockdowns and yet very few deaths....under 10k. People are people there's no magic race. The only difference is there they eat better and get overall more exercise
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I know about a 100 people who got sick. Some I know through other people. Age ranging from children around 10 to grandparents in their 80s. Most of the people being in the 50-65 range. Two of the people were recently on chemo. One had finished within that year and the other had finished after covid hit, so pretty recently. Both those people are over 65. Neither was hospitalized and both were fine after a few days.
No one died and only 3 were hospitalized. Out of those 3 one was probably more in panic than severely sick. Complained about difficulty breathing even though all hospital equipment showed otherwise. Most of these people are life long smokers. Some occasional, some heavy.
I'm not saying this is just the flu in the terms of what we think of as the flu. Aft all the Spanish Flu was also a flu. Nor am I passing judgment on people wearing/not wearing masks, pro/anti vax. Whatever floats your boat!
What I will say, from my observations those people who I know we're sick 99.9% of them are foreigners who did not grow up eating S.A.D nor do they do to this day. The type of food is much more varied and more often than not whole. Some of my friends from other countries don't have mask mandates and no lockdowns and yet very few deaths....under 10k. People are people there's no magic race. The only difference is there they eat better and get overall more exercise
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I have known a lot of people at this point. Not sure it 100 or not, but most followed the expected level of severity for their age/group/risk factors, smaller % have not. That is pretty much in line with data. My sense is also there may be a higher % of those who get damn sick and just tough it out like a bad flue, don't see a doc, and don't get counted/factored into the national data bases. I see a growing number of those too.
I know probably 150 or so who have had it. I'm also in the area where the population is skewed, right? Healthcare.
I would say 130 had it for a couple weeks and ended up just fine, tired for a month or so after, but no long-term sequelae. I also think of the 130 there were probably 30 or 40 who had it for a weekend and we're just fine after.
15 had it a little rougher, down and out for a month or so but are okay.
Around 5 who ended up admitted to the hospital, to in ICU. Months out they are still struggling.
More than 5 people at work (that I know personally) have had Covid. Unfortunately one passed, he was older (70s) and had co-morbidities. One lady (mid 50s?) says she is still has complications. My best friend and his wife both had Covid; both have significant co-mobidities and neither was hospitalized, although she came pretty close (late 50s/early 60s).
My 80+ y/o FIL was hospitalized in December but seems to be OK now. My friend's 70+ father in India was hospitalized at the beginning of the year and it was touch and go but he's still here - her mother had it and is OK (both have significant medical issues).
Covid is a killer, but its certainly survivable. So is the Flu, and I get poked every year for it.
I would be very hesitant to vaccinate minor children, because the risk from Covid is so low to them. The world seems to disagree with me.
Andy
I know probably 150 or so who have had it. I'm also in the area where the population is skewed, right? Healthcare.
I would say 130 had it for a couple weeks and ended up just fine, tired for a month or so after, but no long-term sequelae. I also think of the 130 there were probably 30 or 40 who had it for a weekend and we're just fine after.
15 had it a little rougher, down and out for a month or so but are okay.
Around 5 who ended up admitted to the hospital, to in ICU. Months out they are still struggling.
No one I know who was sick had lasting side effects and all those who went to the hospital were in their 70s. Several had no symptoms and several had minor symptoms like loss of smell and taste. Those were in their late 30s - 40s.
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No one I know who was sick had lasting side effects and all those who went to the hospital were in their 70s. Several had no symptoms and several had minor symptoms like loss of smell and taste. Those were in their late 30s - 40s.
You have to keep in mind my perspective of things (i.e. as a Respiratory Therapist) but the majority of patients I've sent home with oxygen due to COVID have come off the oxygen a couple months later when I see them to re-evaluate. That said, there have been a minority of cases where they still have lung issues. The Pulmonary docs tell me that "honeycomb" patterns appear in chest X-rays of most of these ones who still have problems. Now there are also purportedly some lingering long-term clotting, renal, liver, "brain fog", non-respiratory issues but that isn't in my lane so to speak. I can only comment on what I personally see.
You have to keep in mind my perspective of things (i.e. as a Respiratory Therapist) but the majority of patients I've sent home with oxygen due to COVID have come off the oxygen a couple months later when I see them to re-evaluate. That said, there have been a minority of cases where they still have lung issues. The Pulmonary docs tell me that "honeycomb" patterns appear in chest X-rays of most of these ones who still have problems. Now there are also purportedly some lingering long-term clotting, renal, liver, "brain fog", non-respiratory issues but that isn't in my lane so to speak. I can only comment on what I personally see.
AKA, Post Covid Syndromes, some of which are being seen in people who were without serious symptoms otherwise.
No one I know who was sick had lasting side effects and all those who went to the hospital were in their 70s. Several had no symptoms and several had minor symptoms like loss of smell and taste. Those were in their late 30s - 40s.
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I have a couple colleagues in their late-40s/early-50s who got it pretty bad; one, a good friend with whom I used to work in the ED (he's 52), spent 2 weeks in the ICU and was that close to being put on a vent. This was December. He still has a hard time walking from here to there without getting winded.
But to your point, the majority of the people I know who had it bad were older (>60).
Son came home from college on Monday. Got the J&J shot last night. Sick all day today with fever and vomiting. He was exposed 3 or more times last year at school through his teammates. First couple of times, he was mildly ill. Third time, a few months ago, he said he spent the first 48 hours with a high fever laying on the shower floor because the tile was cool. Essentially the worst flu he's had and then he got over it over a 5~7 day period. Tests showed he had no residual heart or lung issues afterwards which has impacted some. Of the dozen or so teammates who caught it at some point, he has two who caught it early in this mess this time last year who are still having breathing issues. The one I know personally was a beefy D1 athlete who now gets winded pretty quickly.
Son came home from college on Monday. Got the J&J shot last night. Sick all day today with fever and vomiting. He was exposed 3 or more times last year at school through his teammates. First couple of times, he was mildly ill. Third time, a few months ago, he said he spent the first 48 hours with a high fever laying on the shower floor because the tile was cool. Essentially the worst flu he's had and then he got over it over a 5~7 day period. Tests showed he had no residual heart or lung issues afterwards which has impacted some. Of the dozen or so teammates who caught it at some point, he has two who caught it early in this mess this time last year who are still having breathing issues. The one I know personally was a beefy D1 athlete who now gets winded pretty quickly.So he got it 3 times in a year? No antibodies?
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So he got it 3 times in a year? No antibodies?
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He tested negative the first 2 times, but was feeling sick when others were testing positive in his group. Through the fall and early winter, they worked out and practiced mostly in clusters. When they came back in January, they were all together working out and at practice getting ready for their season. Honestly, with kids and kids in school it's hard to say what they catch, but it definitely made the rounds and he tested positive and on his ass for a couple of days the 3rd time. When he tested positive, 11 kids of the 40 man roster were positive and 4 or 5, including my son, were symptomatic. The team was constantly being tested with the spit cup tests and he always came up negative up until this last time.
SomeOtherGuy
05-20-21, 07:34
Son came home from college on Monday. Got the J&J shot last night. Sick all day today with fever and vomiting. He was exposed 3 or more times last year at school through his teammates. First couple of times, he was mildly ill. Third time, a few months ago, he said he spent the first 48 hours with a high fever laying on the shower floor because the tile was cool. Essentially the worst flu he's had and then he got over it over a 5~7 day period. Tests showed he had no residual heart or lung issues afterwards which has impacted some. Of the dozen or so teammates who caught it at some point, he has two who caught it early in this mess this time last year who are still having breathing issues. The one I know personally was a beefy D1 athlete who now gets winded pretty quickly.
So he got it 3 times in a year? No antibodies?
I hope your son recovers quickly and fully from the J&J shot. I assume he got that because his college required it? What is the point of vaccination for someone who's had and recovered from the illness in the prior year?
Are we really supposed to believe that the vaccine will produce immunity if actual illness and recovery didn't do so?
Does anyone else want to take a "vaccine" that causes illness comparable to the disease it's intended to prevent?
ThirdWatcher
05-20-21, 07:55
... Does anyone else want to take a "vaccine" that causes illness comparable to the disease it's intended to prevent?
Well, everyone reacts differently. I’m in my 60’s and had no adverse reaction to either one of the Moderna inoculations.
I really can’t see why anyone who has already survived a bout of COVID would bother with the shots. I also don’t see why any young person would get it (when the odds of surviving COVID are so good).
SomeOtherGuy
05-20-21, 08:22
I really can’t see why anyone who has already survived a bout of COVID would bother with the shots.
This is my question and statement - does the "vaccine" do anything beneficial for someone who survived and recovered from the actual illness?
I also don’t see why any young person would get it (when the odds of surviving COVID are so good).
I don't see any GOOD or logical reason a young person would get the vaccines, especially given that the vaccines seem to have more adverse reactions in younger people. Yet most colleges and universities are requiring all of their students to be vaccinated or effectively kicked out of school - some won't even allow 100% remote learning for students who choose not to get vaccinated. This suggests an agenda is at work. Much like Fauci's double-masking idiocy that he knew at the time was worthless.
To be clear, I'm not Jenny McCarthy, and I've had the usual range of proven, FDA-approved vaccines against various serious diseases that are now mostly eradicated. I am against forcing an unproven and experimental treatment upon people who get little or no personal benefit from it, when the long term side effects are unknown, and there is a known, if small, chance of severe immediate side effects. If an informed adult wants to take an experimental treatment without coercion I'm OK with that, but it should not be forced on people, nor used for children when the risk/benefit calculation for kids is mostly risk, near zero benefit.
I hope your son recovers quickly and fully from the J&J shot. I assume he got that because his college required it? What is the point of vaccination for someone who's had and recovered from the illness in the prior year?
Are we really supposed to believe that the vaccine will produce immunity if actual illness and recovery didn't do so?
Does anyone else want to take a "vaccine" that causes illness comparable to the disease it's intended to prevent?
To be fair a lot of meds are like that. There's always a risk of some kind of reaction.
Studies have shown that antibodies diminish over the course of about 6 months but don't completely disappear. How "immune" you'll be will probably have too many variables to say for sure. They did mention that there's a poss that booster shots will be required every year.
The reason to vaccinate even those who were sick is consistency.
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This is my question and statement - does the "vaccine" do anything beneficial for someone who survived and recovered from the actual illness?
Current data suggests yes, and his response to the vaccine telling of that perhaps.
I don't see any GOOD or logical reason a young person would get the vaccines, especially given that the vaccines seem to have more adverse reactions in younger people. Yet most colleges and universities are requiring all of their students to be vaccinated or effectively kicked out of school - some won't even allow 100% remote learning for students who choose not to get vaccinated. This suggests an agenda is at work. Much like Fauci's double-masking idiocy that he knew at the time was worthless.
To be clear, I'm not Jenny McCarthy, and I've had the usual range of proven, FDA-approved vaccines against various serious diseases that are now mostly eradicated. I am against forcing an unproven and experimental treatment upon people who get little or no personal benefit from it, when the long term side effects are unknown, and there is a known, if small, chance of severe immediate side effects. If an informed adult wants to take an experimental treatment without coercion I'm OK with that, but it should not be forced on people, nor used for children when the risk/benefit calculation for kids is mostly risk, near zero benefit.
You have posted a lot to unpack in the above, but sticking to bold, they are neither unproven nor experimental treatments. Nor, do they alter DNA, or shed, etc, etc. I have posted some great vids worth viewing for those who want the specifics on all that.
I assume he got that because his college required it? What is the point of vaccination for someone who's had and recovered from the illness in the prior year?
The schools are pushing for vaccination and the sports teams even more so due to their travel, close proximity to groups, etc. His summer job requires vaccination as well.
My 77 year old mother got the J&J shot earlier in May. No side effects.
SomeOtherGuy
05-20-21, 08:47
To be fair a lot of meds are like that. There's always a risk of some kind of reaction.
Yes, absolutely, but the acceptable risk of adverse effects varies by the risk of what you're preventing. People are blase about the Covid vaccine risks, as if the Covid death rate was 5-20% of people infected. It's more like 0.01% depending on age group. For the college student age group, it's in the ballpark of 0.003%:
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/11/18/covid-infection-fatality-rates-sex-and-age-15163
(data is slightly old but newer headlines suggest the death rate is going down, not up)
The reason to vaccinate even those who were sick is consistency.
That may be some committee's "reason" but it's no reason at all. Vaccination has costs and risks, so it should have both a cost-benefit and risk-benefit analysis. Those are probably favorable for vaccinating people over 70 or with high risk factors, and maybe even vaccinating people over 50. I'm skeptical that it makes any sense at all, either for the financial costs (money) or the risks to the patient, for people under 40. The big drug companies see profit, and some politicians see totalitarian control through mandatory "vaccine passports."
I am very leery about this vax in kids, including up to 21, and there's a good bit of literature supporting NOT vaccinating them. Yes schools, camps, jobs are all pushing it.
I have kids living in that tension...three sons work for a local mega-chain grocery store, and they are being told they'll have to get it and show proof. I am having the policy checked out to see if it's legal, and see what happens if they do not get it.
ChattanoogaPhil
05-20-21, 11:31
Son came home from college on Monday. Got the J&J shot last night. Sick all day today with fever and vomiting. He was exposed 3 or more times last year at school through his teammates. First couple of times, he was mildly ill. Third time, a few months ago, he said he spent the first 48 hours with a high fever laying on the shower floor because the tile was cool. Essentially the worst flu he's had and then he got over it over a 5~7 day period. Tests showed he had no residual heart or lung issues afterwards which has impacted some. Of the dozen or so teammates who caught it at some point, he has two who caught it early in this mess this time last year who are still having breathing issues. The one I know personally was a beefy D1 athlete who now gets winded pretty quickly.
If diagnosed correctly, it's unusual that a person would be infected and then reinfected twice more. If true, it would appear that his immune system isn't up to the task of preventing symptomatic reinfection. Now that he's vaccinated, let us know if he becomes reinfected.
Are we really supposed to believe that the vaccine will produce immunity if actual illness and recovery didn't do so?
I don't expect anyone to believe anything, including the above post. That said, if you choose to believe it then the inescapable conclusion is that the unvaccinated young man's system has demonstrated it's not up to the task of preventing symptomatic reinfection.
Will things change now that he's been vaccinated? Time will tell... but after the third infection why would anyone believe that staying the course of not being vaccinated would result in anything other than a fourth reinfection? Ya know... vaccine is recommended for those with weak or otherwise compromised immune systems.
Yes, absolutely, but the acceptable risk of adverse effects varies by the risk of what you're preventing. People are blase about the Covid vaccine risks, as if the Covid death rate was 5-20% of people infected. It's more like 0.01% depending on age group. For the college student age group, it's in the ballpark of 0.003%:
https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/11/18/covid-infection-fatality-rates-sex-and-age-15163
(data is slightly old but newer headlines suggest the death rate is going down, not up)
That may be some committee's "reason" but it's no reason at all. Vaccination has costs and risks, so it should have both a cost-benefit and risk-benefit analysis. Those are probably favorable for vaccinating people over 70 or with high risk factors, and maybe even vaccinating people over 50. I'm skeptical that it makes any sense at all, either for the financial costs (money) or the risks to the patient, for people under 40. The big drug companies see profit, and some politicians see totalitarian control through mandatory "vaccine passports."
So far the risk doesn't seem to be all that much. Some people get sick for a day and there have been a few blood clots. There have been a few major reactions but those have been very few
I'm not getting it for other reasons but there doesn't seem to be this huge risk (what happens years down the road only time will tell) Everyone I know who has had it (all 3 vaccines) have had no - slightly tired, reaction.
Seeing as how many Americans of all ages have some sort of metabolic syndrome and don't know it. And seeing who under 60 has largely been effected, I'd at least suggest having blood work done before deciding.
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An argument that was obviously untenable as evidence of the recent change in CDC guidelines for masks and so-called social distancing. The vaccines have performed beyond even the most optimistic expectations when operation Warp Speed was launched.
Just a few days ago Rand Paul harpooned Fauci for wearing a mask, describing it as theatre.
So why are the unvaccinated still supposed to wear masks?
If diagnosed correctly, it's unusual that a person would be infected and then reinfected twice more. If true, it would appear that his immune system isn't up to the task of preventing symptomatic reinfection. Now that he's vaccinated, let us know if he becomes reinfected.
I don't expect anyone to believe anything, including the above post. That said, if you choose to believe it then the inescapable conclusion is that the unvaccinated young man's system has demonstrated it's not up to the task of preventing symptomatic reinfection.
Will things change now that he's been vaccinated? Time will tell... but after the third infection why would anyone believe that staying the course of not being vaccinated would result in anything other than a fourth reinfection? Ya know... vaccine is recommended for those with weak or otherwise compromised immune systems.
He was directly exposed 3 times (possibly more) when teammates tested positive and were sick. He got sick at the same time at a low level. Whether or to he actually had COVID the other times, we cannot say. He actually tested positive the most recent time and was pretty sick for a few days. Previous times, he was sick, but the spit tests came back negative. From watching the results of his team and other teams playing, the spit tests don't appear to be the most accurate.
As with so much about this virus, the information seems to swing wildly.
ChattanoogaPhil
05-20-21, 13:21
He was directly exposed 3 times (possibly more) when teammates tested positive and were sick. He got sick at the same time at a low level. Whether or to he actually had COVID the other times, we cannot say. He actually tested positive the most recent time and was pretty sick for a few days. Previous times, he was sick, but the spit tests came back negative. From watching the results of his team and other teams playing, the spit tests don't appear to be the most accurate.
As with so much about this virus, the information seems to swing wildly.
Preciously why I don’t expect anyone to believe what they read on the Net forums.
I keep hearing folks say OH I knew this person in good shape who got it or had it and so on ?
Do you know they are in good shape like you are their doctor and have their labs ! A lot of folks who might appear in OK shape are not !
And with only about %12 of the population in metabolic shape chances are more they are NOT in shape but appear to be
Even the TOFI folks who eat crap and drink and so on
Also something like %43 of youth are NOT in proper shape metabolic or have other issues because of the crap food these days or poor diet choice etc... so they are not as immune as they could be child obesity is freaking child abuse and a epidemic anymore ! And college age should not better !
Now if they kinda appear in shape as in not obese that helps yes but its the things you cant see ! and at least not being obese is one less thing as obesity it seems is a huge issue that is not being addressed instead its being promoted like hey get the vaccine get free donuts !
the fact the % hospitalized that are obese is HUGE to those actual obese in the country something like %80 having issues and obese have much higher viral shedding etc... by a huge % over are actual population
For sure more than one issue at hand here :)
like the no smoking campaign that happened I do wish this is one place the gov could step in and try to stop obesity by starting with the crap industrialized seed oils and heavily processed foods and sugars as cut back those 3 and we would be so much better off health wise
Sadly will never happen to much money being paid to folks who promote it
ThirdWatcher
05-21-21, 04:56
... I am against forcing an unproven and experimental treatment upon people who get little or no personal benefit from it, when the long term side effects are unknown, and there is a known, if small, chance of severe immediate side effects. If an informed adult wants to take an experimental treatment without coercion I'm OK with that, but it should not be forced on people, nor used for children when the risk/benefit calculation for kids is mostly risk, near zero benefit.
+1. I am not in favor of forcing other people to put anything in their bodies against their will but they have to be prepared to accept the consequences (without blaming others). It would help if science wasn’t so politicized in this country.
They didn’t do this for AIDS or polio but now all of a sudden I “must” get a foreign thing put in my body to do things?
Nah….
They didn’t do this for AIDS or polio but now all of a sudden I “must” get a foreign thing put in my body to do things?
Nah….
Actually, polio vaccination is required for school in all 50 states and DC.
They didn’t do this for AIDS or polio but now all of a sudden I “must” get a foreign thing put in my body to do things?
Nah….
You cannot get HIV from standing next to a person and other than the idiot anti vax parents who do not get their kids vaccinated*, all school systems require kids to have that polio vaccine. Having said that, no, I would not ever concede to mandatory vaccines for covid, but (1) it may preclude you from being able to do things like travel, enter private business, etc and (2) only way this thing gets under control and some form of normalcy returns is via exposure, and or, vaccine, and the latter will cause far less death and destruction.
* = Some diseases like Polio, Mumps, etc making a comeback due to those idiots parents.
* = Some diseases like Polio, Mumps, etc making a comeback due to those idiots parents.
Unvaxxed immigrants have a lot to do with the resurgence of diseases we had all but eliminated CONUS. There are SOME legitimate questions about vaccinations, but most of the crap I see is paranoia. I believe in the safety and efficacy of vaccines, just not real interested in getting this one. Not skeert of the boogeybug.
Unvaxxed immigrants have a lot to do with the resurgence of diseases we had all but eliminated CONUS. There are SOME legitimate questions about vaccinations, but most of the crap I see is paranoia. I believe in the safety and efficacy of vaccines, just not real interested in getting this one. Not skeert of the boogeybug.
I'm less worried about the current vaccines than I am of getting covid, and want it to go away for us all, and there's only one of 2 ways that will happen: exposure to the virus and or vaccines. The latter will lead to far less death and destruction.
We have some who will say "Not worried about Covid as it 'only' kills 1%" and followed by "Not getting the shots because 0.00000003% may have developed a blod clot"
While the risk/benefit is much higher in favor of some groups more than others to be sure for the shots, it still favors even those at low risk of serious complications/death, and is the fastest way to get it under control so we can get back to "normal" what ever the hell that will be post covid.
Finally, the reasons many (most?) state as to why they don't plan to get the shot are demonstrably false, like it alters your DNA, yada yada.
It is a personal decision, but, a decision that should at least be made using accurate intel.
The amount of fear covid has caused with even the most intelligent folks is absolutely mind boggling...
I'm less worried about the current vaccines than I am of getting covid, and want it to go away for us all, and there's only one of 2 ways that will happen: exposure to the virus and or vaccines. The latter will lead to far less death and destruction.
We have some who will say "Not worried about Covid as it 'only' kills 1%" and followed by "Not getting the shots because 0.00000003% may have developed a blod clot"
While the risk/benefit is much higher in favor of some groups more than others to be sure for the shots, it still favors even those at low risk of serious complications/death, and is the fastest way to get it under control so we can get back to "normal" what ever the hell that will be post covid.
Finally, the reasons many (most?) state as to why they don't plan to get the shot are demonstrably false, like it alters your DNA, yada yada.
It is a personal decision, but, a decision that should at least be made using accurate intel.
My reason is simple. F U ! (Not you personally). I don't think they're unsafe although long term effects...?????
HOWEVER
I was told by Kamala and Biden and Cuomo it's dangerous and they don't trust it. So there they go. If they didn't than why should I now? Has something about the way it's made changed? How has it become safer? I want a press conference as to why it was dangerous before the election!
They can try to shame all they want, I'm the wrong person for that and it's going to take A LOT more than some shitty piss beer and a $5 bribe. Especially when you give ultimatums on freedom. Get the shot to have freedom. Ummm....no! Not the way it works.
I don't care about travel. I don't fly. If I go somewhere I drive. If they don't want me there then I can keep my money in my pocket. I also don't visit chain restaurants, and most corporate stores....etc .... Never have. I don't remember the last time I was at Walmart maybe 2019. Never been to an Applebee's or Olive Garden..... maybe as a small child. I think Costco is the only real corporate store I visit and I can live without it. I only go there for the meat section.
There's literally nothing they can hold over me to make me do it.
This is what you get when you politicize science.
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The amount of fear covid has caused with even the most intelligent folks is absolutely mind boggling...
When this got started.
I picks up the phone and call my buddy, and ICU and ER doc in the chit.
"Dude, is this legit or is it overblown doc?"
"It's legit Will. So far, we have a pretty good handle on who is at serious risk, and once in a while I get someone who gets into deep trouble fast for reasons I can't explain."
"So not just the flue doc?"
"Negative Will, it is not just the flue"
And on we went to discuss what was working and what was not clinically and so forth. Things have improved greatly since that time and what is seeing these days are younger people who didn't get the vaccine, some with obvious co morbidity (obesity), some without.
I send him and others in my loop studies and such in hopes it helps, and to further my own understandings of it.
Yes, "they" have instilled a fear in folks, and unfortunately, people just don't respond without it, and it's a real double edge sword that.
People complain when they act as if it's the plague and ebola combined, yet will do nadda if public health officials attempt to actually treat people like adults, urging them to use some common sense.
There's more than enough med pros on this forum etc who will however tell you some fear is warranted if that motivates people to do what is needed to protect themselves and others, assuming they care about anyone but themselves...
My reason is simple. F U ! (Not you personally). I don't think they're unsafe although long term effects...?????
HOWEVER
I was told by Kamala and Biden and Cuomo it's dangerous and they don't trust it. So there they go. If they didn't than why should I now? Has something about the way it's made changed? How has it become safer? I want a press conference as to why it was dangerous before the election!
They can try to shame all they want, I'm the wrong person for that and it's going to take A LOT more than some shitty piss beer and a $5 bribe. Especially when you give ultimatums on freedom. Get the shot to have freedom. Ummm....no! Not the way it works.
I don't care about travel. I don't fly. If I go somewhere I drive. If they don't want me there then I can keep my money in my pocket. I also don't visit chain restaurants, and most corporate stores....etc .... Never have. I don't remember the last time I was at Walmart maybe 2019. Never been to an Applebee's or Olive Garden..... maybe as a small child. I think Costco is the only real corporate store I visit and I can live without it. I only go there for the meat section.
There's literally nothing they can hold over me to make me do it.
This is what you get when you politicize science.
On that we agree for sure. When this is finally over, there will be a lot of finger pointing and most of them will be true.
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