View Full Version : Dumb naive question on views
I am fairly new to this site and have learned a lot in the technical section about my firearms and how to better take care of them and make them more reliable. Thank you very much to all who contributed to that section and made that information available.
But as I read the threads in the GD area I hear a lot of concerns about gun control and bans. Most base their statements on something they read and reference it in their thread. I believe in trying to keep our right to own firearms but when it comes right down to it and the bans roll through there isn't much one can do.
So that leaves me in limbo, write your representatives, join the NRA and such, support them but in the end that leaves a great unknown. Our elected officials got there some how with the belief the majority voted them in. So those of us that support the 2A are we a minority? Or has the USA become so self-centered about what is in it for them, they are willing to give up their rights.
I am not trying to stir the pot but wonder what is really going on. I would like to hear some replies that are easy to understand and possibly reasonable actions one might take. Because in the end as law abiding citizens if gun control happens the citizens will conform to society to avoid being a criminal by possessing firearms.
Sorry if I sound like an uninformed person but hey I am asking questions to get informed.
Scott
M4tographer
12-07-08, 11:59
I am not trying to stir the pot but wonder what is really going on. I would like to hear some replies that are easy to understand and possibly reasonable actions one might take. Because in the end as law abiding citizens if gun control happens the citizens will conform to society to avoid being a criminal by possessing firearms.
Scott, I clipped this part out because I feel it's the most important.
How long do we remain 'law abiding citizens' though? At what point to we return to patriotism and let the 'watchers' know that THEY are the ones who are wrong? I feel that the country HAS lost sight and we have become a 'me me me' society. Even in the minority, when do we REALLY stand up and MAKE ourselves heard? What is the breaking point? At some point we need to take responsibility and wrangle things back into control. I honestly feel that politics isn't going to cut it.
Call me paranoid, but...
When you think about it, a lot of our stand against things like AWB is a matter of principle, and not necessarily about practicality.
The federal AWB was a dismal failure in accomplishing anything other than being an annoyance. You could still buy the "banned" weapons, just without bayonet lugs, folding/collapsible stocks, or flash hiders. Although expensive, pre-ban mags were readily available and legal.
Pistols were limited to 10 round mags as well, with many pre-bans available, but a whole lot of Americans are perfectly happy with an 8+1 shot 1911. And I'm more than happy with a 10+1 shot HK45 or an 8+1 shot Sig P220.
So in reality, if anyone wanted a semi-auto rifle and intended to use it for real, they were still available, still fired the same rounds, and were still just as deadly as before. And if they wanted to add the outlawed features, and weren't concerned about violating the law, they could easily buy all the parts.
Which comes to the whole point. If anyone plans any armed action against any governmental body for any reason, including the very preservation of liberty under the terms written in the Declaration of Independence, they are breaking the existing law and committing treason. You can argue the philosophical definition of treason against a corrupt government all you want, but that's what they will be treated as, tried as, and sentenced as if they are caught. By that time, they will have broken a hell of a lot more laws than whether or not they had a flash hider or a collapsible stock.
The only thing the bans ever did was convince a lot of average American sheep that they were safe and the government had banned all those "bad guns". They really didn't understand what was legal before the ban, what was still legal under than ban, and what was actually being sold in gun shops. The average person still thinks the AWB banned machine guns and now that it has expired, anyone can buy a machine gun with no restrictions.
Further bans will likely be more of the same. We should absolutely fight them by writing our congressmen, and making them know that their reelection could depend on how they vote.
When was the last time anyone was charged with treason? Ain't going to happen. What exactly would someone do to be charged with treason? Go out and buy as many hicap mags and assault rifles as you can afford before the ban.
Treason-Overthrow or make war in assisting an enemy country attacking our country. Quible, quible, your going to get the death penalty for murder, not treason. Shooting a liberal is probably at least two to three years probation at the most. Just don't shoot "it" with an assault weapon.
Liberalism is a mental illness, just plead guilty by reason of insanity.
Semper Fidelis,
Tipy
...The only thing the bans ever did was convince a lot of average American sheep that they were safe and the government had banned all those "bad guns". They really didn't understand what was legal before the ban, what was still legal under than ban, and what was actually being sold in gun shops. The average person still thinks the AWB banned machine guns and now that it has expired, anyone can buy a machine gun with no restrictions...
Well said. The "sheep" love to be fed "feel good" legislation. :D
Thanks for the responses I enjoy reading them. Sometimes the enthusiasm to promote our rights tend to get so emotional it is hard to remember it is a philosophical point and not an agenda for something.
Scott
Any resistor in today's environment will not be charged with treason, they will be treated as though they were a terrorist -- and the MSM will gladly go right along with it.
Regardless of the specific charge, anyone who takes arms against the government for any reason, be it protecting their rights, or attempting to take a "stand" after reaching a "breaking point" (as M4tographer said), is going to be in a hell of a lot more trouble than warranted by any violation of ban based on the appearance of a rifle.
The weapons charge will just be a small item on a long list of conspiracy, murder, assault, terrorism, and other charges. Lets not argue about the semantics of the definition of treason. My choice of that word was in response to the veiled implication that people are going to rise up against the government and "get things back in control" by any means other than political influence on legislation and court cases.
As much as we value the 2nd amendment and its intent of letting the citizens use it to keep the government in order, any rebellious uprising would be crushed so quickly and with so much overwhelming force that everyone else would just fall in line.
Wow my intent really wasn't to discuss treason, uprising against the government, or any other type of physical rebellion against the current government. I would never suggest any type of uprising armed or not, especially on a public forum I was just trying to understand the issues that seem to be discussed with gun control and the future of our laws.
Scott
I believe in trying to keep our right to own firearms but when it comes right down to it and the bans roll through there isn't much one can do.
Because in the end as law abiding citizens if gun control happens the citizens will conform to society to avoid being a criminal by possessing firearms.
just to have fun :)
what if the Gov decides to make it so your children go to a GOV work camp every summer ? would you just say OK take care JR and have fun ?
to me its a constitutional right they are trying to take away not just lowering the speed limit or something
I am sure you know this :) but this is my view
edited to say this:
again this is playing worst case scenario
in reality do what you can be active join NRA protest and march and make your voice heard etc...
look at the small amount of wacky lefties that try to impose their beliefs on you if gun owners were as active and loud as they are things would be a lot lot dif I think :)
"sure you can take my guns but I am going to give you all the bullets first !"
The only thing the bans ever did was convince a lot of average American sheep that they were safe and the government had banned all those "bad guns". They really didn't understand what was legal before the ban,
Here lately when I talk to people about these bans(including those who SUPPOSEDLY support the 2nd A) I have found that the best thing is to ask what it is that they hope to accomplish with this (or any) piece of legislation. Most look at me with a blank stare, some say "to make things safer" and then show them the facts that prove that it does not work. But their response is so telling of how much they have actually thought about it. By asking questions and responding in this manner you can get them to think, if only for a second, and control the conversation without being too argumentative.
Gutshot John
12-07-08, 16:42
I'm perfectly willing to go to jail for refusing to turn in any firearm that I purchased legally.
Short of extreme, unforeseen and ridiculously unlikely circumstances, I will not bear arms against my country except in the preservation of my own life and the lives of those that I love.
I bet TV does more damage ;) if they had a ban on TV and decided to come around and take our TVs I wonder what the outcry would be :)
or they decided to ban certain shows they felt were not good or safe ! how would that be looked upon ?
if they decided you only need one vehicle and came to take your SUV
the list can go on and on
I wonder what Rosa Parks thought when she got on that bus and sat down ?
she was thrown in jail and broke the law but that also ended up really sparking one of the biggest movements in our country !!!!!
if one gun owner said NO way in the face of worst case scenario of them gathering guns if it ever went that far ?
it might also strike up one of the largest movements this country has ever seen ! and that movement will be well armed !!!!!
I guess in Lefts eyes we should just obey !
if we did this with the british we would not be having this conversation :)
if Rosa was just a good little old lady and decided not to stand up for something and go to jail for it I wonder what our country would be like today ?
never ever every follow blindly any gov/leader !!!!!
I bet Hitler and saddam and others were really hoping on people who just blindly followed them and put the fear of going to jail or meeting their secret police getting in trouble with the GOV they controlled ! and look at those histories !!!!
I dont think many want to live under that !!!!!
to me good citizens wont just fall down and give to the leaders they will question and fight for what they believe and that is what this country is founded on and also what keeps it in balance
what if the Gov decides to make it so your children go to a GOV work camp every summer ? would you just say OK take care JR and have fun ?
I would like some more time to think about that one I am still on the fence :D Really LMAO
Scott
heard this from my dad but not sure where he heard it "When guns are outlawed, I will then be an outlaw" and I can honestly say I am scared. I'm not a criminal but I'm going to have to figure it out quick. I only hope I can find a like minded group to organize with. I recently have been considering changing carreers to be a deputy in my county but, well with the economy I probably wouldnt be able to find a hiring dept. let alone the pay cut I would take.
So using the Rosa Parks theory and making a stand for your rights, Why isn't there a group of gun rights people at these gun buy back. I would think an organization would insure at all gun buy backs there would be people to inform them of the implications of what they are doing. Or even yet how about a group like the NRA being in the parking lot with local gun shop owners buying the guns instead therefore making the buy back a complete flop and possibly a statement that gun rights people will take care of the guns not the government.
Is there such a thing as local gun shops buying back the guns instead of the government, it would make the buy back a flop, cheap guns to stock the shelves (more profit margins), and the government can report we collected no guns off the street today. plus I would imagine if it was done business like there be no bubba gun owners remarks.
I enjoy this, gets the thought process going. :D
Scott
Going one step further after all the local gun shops buy the guns for cash instead of toy coupons say like 25-50 dollars take those guns and insure they are safe and have a gun rights sale for 100 a gun for those who want to support their right to own one. LOL I bet this has the potential of being a sucess.
that would be a great idea :)
i think one problem is for whatever reason ? gun owners in general are not that active on things like the gays as example who are such a small % yet act like they are the norm !
if gun owners would get this active we would be in a whole dif view then :)
also I can somehow see others coming to shout us down like they have with the minute men ! and start trying to provoke us ?
but then again maybe that would be good so they could see who the aggressors really are !
I'm all for getting out there and making our voices heard. When/where do we start? Million gun owner march? I'll be there just say when. As it is now I feel like we are just waiting for the other side to make a move. I think we are far too quiet. The loss of rights in the other countries were a direct result of owners being complacent. The AWB is about dividing gun owners, and scaring the public. How else do you justify banning 1% of anything? Get out there to your hunter friends especially that all gun owners need to be united in our fight. One of the key tactics used by gun elimination groups in those other countries was the division of gun owners. The hunters sat idly by thinking that they were safe, until it was their turn to turn in their guns. Then it was too late. The other tactic was all the complicated registering, licensing, taxes, and fees. This made ownership such a hassle that many owners just sold their guns and gave up. I think we should be big giant PITA loud!!
I also think us cops should start writing to our respective organizations to let them know that most officers do not support the AWB. Even though the leaders of these organizations, since they are politicians now, not cops, tend to support it. This wrongly portrays the entire police community as being on the gun-control side of the issue.
On the other hand, the next administration will be quite busy with other things so, would our actions be a deterrent, or attract unwanted attention? Hmmm..........?
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