View Full Version : Darian Jarrott killing (graphic)
This is full version of the the murder of officer Darian Jarrott. It's graphic. That the shooter makes sure to add one to his head, tells us this was a cool killer who made sure the officer was not going to survive. The POS who did the deed obviously had no plans to be taken alive, and was put down the old school way, which can also be found on vid. Another example of just how fast things can go from another day at the office to that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77DuzWz7PMM
RIP sir.
Did they catch the bastard that did this? The Mayor of Brooklyn Center Minn said yesterday that police officers don't need to be armed for traffic stops! What an absolute idiot.
Did they catch the bastard that did this? The Mayor of Brooklyn Center Minn said yesterday that police officers don't need to be armed for traffic stops! What an absolute idiot.
Per OP "...had no plans to be taken alive, and was put down the old school way, which can also be found on vids on YT."
vicious_cb
04-14-21, 14:45
I posted this in another thread. This vid is primer on what happens when you get used by the feds.
That cop got served up by DHS. They knew he was a cartel drug trafficker but let Jarrott go in alone anyway.
"Hey patrol peasant, go pull that guy over for tinted windows. Dont worry we got your back."
3 letter agencies dont give a crap if you die.
thepatriot2705
04-14-21, 14:46
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.krqe.com/news/politics-government/nmsp-ofc-darian-jarrotts-widow-plans-to-file-wrongful-death-lawsuit/amp/
Widow filing wrongful death lawsuit. Good. DHS ****ed that officer.
And when can we close the ****ing border? I want a wall and machine gun nests
The_War_Wagon
04-14-21, 15:16
I want a wall and machine gun nests
I want motion activated LASERS. And 10 miles of land mines in front of the wall.
On THEIR side. :mad:
Damn that was hard to watch.
john armond
04-14-21, 15:38
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.krqe.com/news/politics-government/nmsp-ofc-darian-jarrotts-widow-plans-to-file-wrongful-death-lawsuit/amp/
Widow filing wrongful death lawsuit. Good. DHS ****ed that officer.
And when can we close the ****ing border? I want a wall and machine gun nests
That’s Shite!!!! When I was on patrol I had been asked by the county narcotics unit to stop cars on several different occasions, but the info was always given about why they wanted a person stopped and what to possibly expect. Sometimes it happened fast, but there was always a phone call or relayed info on the old Motorola pagers that received text through dispatch. The way this was done it sounds like they set this officer up for failure. I was wondering how those other officers showed up so fast in full kit with medical bags.
ETA...I had a multi-year relationship with the nacr units that called for assistance, and worked alongside them on a joint city/county task force, so there was a high degree of trust there. That makes a huge difference.
thepatriot2705
04-14-21, 15:39
Damn that was hard to watch.
Harder than that of the Kyle dinkheller video which has always sent chills down my spine.
Evel Baldgui
04-14-21, 15:53
Discussing this horrific event with LE associates of mine, comments were made that upon seeing a suspect with a slung rifle, their immediate response would be to draw their weapons and make sure said BG did not so much as blink. Driving with a slung rifle is far from your average traffic stop encounter according to my friends in LE, no matter what part of the country you're in. I'm not in LE so I couldn't even venture a guess as what is done or what the procedures would be in such a a situation/encounter.
Perhaps NM officer was far too nice to this to this criminal given the absurdity of the times.
Damn that was hard to watch.
Other vids I saw the shooter raises the gun, cut to the Jarrot on the ground. This is the only uncut version I have seen, and what happened between that period where other vids cut, is exactly what people need to see. That's not just some dirt bag who panicked just wanted to get away, that was a straight up cool headed assassination of Jarrot. I don't recall anything quite like that one, at least not in recent memory.
Until I'd seen this uncut version, I thought shooter had put a few into Jarret over the back of the truck, jumped in his truck, and took off.
What actually happened is a large measure worse.
Never help Feds. It never works out. Feds never seek your help because they think you are cool.
Cartel aren’t stupid.
I just read in a related article that the POS was sentenced to 10 yrs in federal prison on drug charges in Aug 2011. It's an absolute travesty that he was free on the streets and able to murder Officer Jarrott.
Other vids I saw the shooter raises the gun, cut to the Jarrot on the ground. This is the only uncut version I have seen, and what happened between that period where other vids cut, is exactly what people need to see. That's not just some dirt bag who panicked just wanted to get away, that was a straight up cool headed assassination of Jarrot. I don't recall anything quite like that one, at least not in recent memory.
Until I'd seen this uncut version, I thought shooter had put a few into Jarret over the back of the truck, jumped in his truck, and took off.
What actually happened is a large measure worse.
I also saw another youtube video of this incident a couple days ago, they blurred out officer Jarrott as soon as he started falling on the ground and didn't show the aftermath. They other video did spliced in the capture and shoot out between the killer and the police where they ended his miserable life.
Watching this video, I was wondering how those plainclothes agents that were all kitted up like the SAS or Delta guys showed up just a little late or things would have been different. Little did I know they were tailing. Unreal.
I also saw another youtube video of this incident a couple days ago, they blurred out officer Jarrott as soon as he started falling on the ground and didn't show the aftermath. They other video did spliced in the capture and shoot out between the killer and the police where they ended his miserable life.
Watching this video, I was wondering how those plainclothes agents that were all kitted up like the SAS or Delta guys showed up just a little late or things would have been different. Little did I know they were tailing. Unreal.
LIKE I SAID, Never help a Fed.
If DEA and Marshals are kitted up like they are ready to invade Stalingrad and your piddly ass is wearing Class As and Corframs then that is when you tell them to toss off.
As soon as he went on about tint, I knew he was a dead man.
The actual cartel players are not stupid. The Trooper was the butt of a cruel and sick joke and I hope his family sues
Damn that was hard to watch.
+1
Brutal shit. That DHS had a local officer initiate a stop with no warning of what he was dealing with is so negligent I don't know where to start. Heads need to roll.
When did local PD become baggage handlers for Federal law enforcement. You want to talk to a drug dealer, YOU make the contact.
Obviously the federal involvement isn't getting much air time.
This incident is something for state/local police and private citizens to keep in mind when it is claimed state/local police have nothing to do with enforcing federal laws.
Obviously the federal involvement isn't getting much air time.
This incident is something for state/local police and private citizens to keep in mind when it is claimed state/local police have nothing to do with enforcing federal laws.
It needs to be the main focus in my opinion. Sure as shit the current administration is gonna focus on the firearm used, but this is worse than Fast and Furious (where ATF lost track of firearms deliberately provided to drug cartels, one of which was used to murder a border patrol officer), in this case it very much seems that DHS blindly walked this officer into his own death and could have orchestrated events in such a way where they directly participated in the traffic stop / first contact and provided direct support but chose not to.
This might be the worst thing I have ever seen.
Your comment about state and local LE enforcing federal law notwithstanding, I think the real take away is state and local LE can no longer simply trust federal law enforcement for anything. Everyone involved in this operation from the top down to the guys who were only "minutes away" need to be investigated, fired and sentenced.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-14-21, 20:30
Poor officer safety got this young man killed. He should have NEVER had this man out of the car without cover, and the moment a door opened he should've had his gun drawn and been issuing commands. Awful to watch, especially because it was preventable. May we all learn from his death and live longer for it.
Yeah that was very rough. Reminded me of the incident in Niger. Someone needs to post the link to the cartel **** getting lit up. I hope my wife and daughter never have to see me in something like that, I can't imagine what its like for those that do.
Poor officer safety got this young man killed. He should have NEVER had this man out of the car without cover, and the moment a door opened he should've had his gun drawn and been issuing commands. Awful to watch, especially because it was preventable. May we all learn from his death and live longer for it.
Honestly, I think most competent shooters, if they were inclined, could probably get the drop on most LEOs in a straight up, no warning ambush like the above. LEOs are not on 24 hour "ready alert" to engage in gunfights. You can't live like that and if you tried, there would be an astonishing number of unsupported shootings by law enforcement because most people who make regular contact with law enforcement are just f'ing stupid and do stupid shit all the time, only realization that many people are just f'ing stupid and a basic level of restraint keeps hundreds of people (who aren't criminally dangerous) from being killed by police every year.
And it's a hard goddamn balance. Too much and your career is over and you are facing charges, fines and jail time and too little and you are attending your own funeral. This wasn't a case like the GA cop who made so many errors it was cringe worthy, this was a guy who knew probably 5 seconds into the contact that he was gonna execute this cop and did almost nothing to tip his hand.
I would probably bet the first thing on Jarrotts mind is "he's gonna run."
thepatriot2705
04-14-21, 21:54
Poor officer safety got this young man killed. He should have NEVER had this man out of the car without cover, and the moment a door opened he should've had his gun drawn and been issuing commands. Awful to watch, especially because it was preventable. May we all learn from his death and live longer for it.
Not disagreeing but I’m pinning this on the feds. They were 30 seconds out. Really smells like a setup. Feds are incompetent bastards
Much respect to the fallen.
I have a lot of respect for cops because they really seem to have the odds stacked against them.
Not disagreeing but I’m pinning this on the feds. They were 30 seconds out. Really smells like a setup. Feds are incompetent bastards
Incompetent people don't win almost everytime.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-14-21, 23:21
Honestly, I think most competent shooters, if they were inclined, could probably get the drop on most LEOs in a straight up, no warning ambush like the above. LEOs are not on 24 hour "ready alert" to engage in gunfights. You can't live like that and if you tried, there would be an astonishing number of unsupported shootings by law enforcement because most people who make regular contact with law enforcement are just f'ing stupid and do stupid shit all the time, only realization that many people are just f'ing stupid and a basic level of restraint keeps hundreds of people (who aren't criminally dangerous) from being killed by police every year.
And it's a hard goddamn balance. Too much and your career is over and you are facing charges, fines and jail time and too little and you are attending your own funeral. This wasn't a case like the GA cop who made so many errors it was cringe worthy, this was a guy who knew probably 5 seconds into the contact that he was gonna execute this cop and did almost nothing to tip his hand.
I would probably bet the first thing on Jarrotts mind is "he's gonna run."
Yes, and no. You mitigate certain risks, place yourself in positions of advantage, and control what you control. This officer did none of those things. He died because he did not practice basic officer safety on traffic stops. There were so many points that the risks could have been mitigated, but never eliminated.
I've been doing this job long enough to recognize that if anybody wanted to kill me, all it would take is creativity or chance. I control what I can control to mitigate those chances, but every door I've ever breached could have easily had an AK on the other end of it. You have to treat every traffic stop like it could be this one, but that doesn't mean you can't be polite, kind, and respectful.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-14-21, 23:23
Not disagreeing but I’m pinning this on the feds. They were 30 seconds out. Really smells like a setup. Feds are incompetent bastards
I just can't figure out why he didn't wait for cover to get the guy out of the car.
Yes, and no. You mitigate certain risks, place yourself in positions of advantage, and control what you control. This officer did none of those things. He died because he did not practice basic officer safety on traffic stops. There were so many points that the risks could have been mitigated, but never eliminated.
I've been doing this job long enough to recognize that if anybody wanted to kill me, all it would take is creativity or chance. I control what I can control to mitigate those chances, but every door I've ever breached could have easily had an AK on the other end of it. You have to treat every traffic stop like it could be this one, but that doesn't mean you can't be polite, kind, and respectful.
Here's the thing, let's say YOU pull ME over and I've got a SIG on my hip and what looks exactly like a M4 on the seat next to me only it's actually an airsoft because I was running indoor drills in my friends basement.
Are you gonna go Defcon 2 on me? I haven't done anything wrong yet, but from your perspective I'm probably pinging everything hard. But if you draw on me, I'm going to be very upset and you'll probably hear a lot about it later.
Like I said, it's a hard goddamn balance and even you acknowledge if somebody wants to they can set up on you in ways where you realistically don't have a chance. Maybe there were things Jarrott could have done differently that might have changed things but that's maybe's and might's and he still might have ended up dead.
I didn't see any big "OMG that's just wrong" things, I didn't see anything that struck me as "he's gonna get himself killed doing it like that", I mostly just saw a guy who wasn't given enough information and wasn't given much of a chance.
The fact that "the Feds" apparently directed him to do a "ordinary stop" already put him at a mental disadvantage because they clearly didn't indicate that he should exercise any kind of additional caution.
Yes, and no. You mitigate certain risks, place yourself in positions of advantage, and control what you control. This officer did none of those things. He died because he did not practice basic officer safety on traffic stops. There were so many points that the risks could have been mitigated, but never eliminated.
I've been doing this job long enough to recognize that if anybody wanted to kill me, all it would take is creativity or chance. I control what I can control to mitigate those chances, but every door I've ever breached could have easily had an AK on the other end of it. You have to treat every traffic stop like it could be this one, but that doesn't mean you can't be polite, kind, and respectful.
You say that. But you can do absolutely everything right and still die.
I suppose that’s why I never really look forward to the future very much.
Cancer, Coronary, Crash, or Capped. I’m sure at least one of these will happen to me eventually on a long enough timeline.
My greatest fear is actually living to be elderly. I don’t think I would survive it
Here's the thing, let's say YOU pull ME over and I've got a SIG on my hip and what looks exactly like a M4 on the seat next to me only it's actually an airsoft because I was running indoor drills in my friends basement.
Are you gonna go Defcon 2
If I don’t kill your ass, then you’ll eventually get over it if I shove a gun in your face and advise you to cooperate like yer life depended on it.
But your scenario is a word problem that could be perpetually “What if’d” and caveated.
The Trooper knew he was in over his head but was bullshitted like most State Troopers into not knowing when to roll off so he stuck to his little dialogue tree and ritual.
You gotta be able to see, hear, vibe, smell, and just feel a stop. I stopped a dude years ago coming back from a machine gun shoot with all kindsa UZIs, Stens, and he was wearing Camo. We nerded out for a spell and I cur him loose. He had enough hardware and ammo to raid Saipan. But he had a good aura.
Then there was this one guy with some hidden mouse gun who just gave me a vibe. Warrants, dope, the whole nine.
It’s the Second Sight. Like what they call Samadhi. You cannot learn it nor teach it.
Ol buddy didn’t have it and he got killed
Honestly if anybody hears my words, if you catch a vibe you cannot explain and have no immediate back up; just let them go or just leave and drive off.
You actually can do that
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-15-21, 00:04
Here's the thing, let's say YOU pull ME over and I've got a SIG on my hip and what looks exactly like a M4 on the seat next to me only it's actually an airsoft because I was running indoor drills in my friends basement.
Are you gonna go Defcon 2 on me? I haven't done anything wrong yet, but from your perspective I'm probably pinging everything hard. But if you draw on me, I'm going to be very upset and you'll probably hear a lot about it later.
Like I said, it's a hard goddamn balance and even you acknowledge if somebody wants to they can set up on you in ways where you realistically don't have a chance. Maybe there were things Jarrott could have done differently that might have changed things but that's maybe's and might's and he still might have ended up dead.
I didn't see any big "OMG that's just wrong" things, I didn't see anything that struck me as "he's gonna get himself killed doing it like that", I mostly just saw a guy who wasn't given enough information and wasn't given much of a chance.
The fact that "the Feds" apparently directed him to do a "ordinary stop" already put him at a mental disadvantage because they clearly didn't indicate that he should exercise any kind of additional caution.
Of course my awareness would be extremely heightened if I pulled you over and you had a pistol and rifle. I will do what I can to mitigate risk without being unprofessional. So, I'll likely stay behind the pillars, I may call for a cover car, and I'll ask that you don't touch your guns. I'll talk to you in a nice conversational tone and I'll show you respect, but I will also be mentally prepared for the possibility that you may want to grab one of those guns. But, I won't show. Now, if you started to exhibit aggression, intoxication, or made furtive movements, I'd wait til a cover officer arrived and then ask you to step out the car until the stop ended. Obvious bad guy with guns is a far different scenario than obvious good guys with guns. You guys can twist that and tear me apart for it all you want, but homie with face tats and an AR will likely be asked to exit the vehicle, where as a gentleman of any color that gives off a good guy vibe won't be.
I pull over tons of lawfully armed folks, as long as I set myself up for success, I can be cool as a cucumber throughout the stop because I know I have my bases covered.
You may not see any "OMG" things about his stop, but that's because we have different experiences. Passenger side approaches are safe for highway stops, and allow you to see alot of the inside of the car. They can still be done behind a pillar; offset from the driver, causing the driver to crane his neck to talk to you. This makes it much harder for a suspect to shoot from their seat. If he wanted the driver out of the vehicle, he should've remained at the window, engaging the driver in conversation/running a clearance via radio if possible, until cover arrived. Then, and only then, should he have moved to the driver side and then asked him to exit while the cover officer provided security.
Had he waited for cover, he would likely have survived. Had he been on the driver side when asking the driver to exit he would have likely survived. He got complacent, and complacency kills. In this line of work, we debrief relentlessly and pick apart videos like this all the time. We don't do it to monday morning QB or denigrate the fallen, we do it so we can learn from the incident and get better. The officer made mistakes that cost him his life.
There is no "ordinary stop" if you condition yourself to live with a heightened sense of awareness. Treat everyone with respect and kindness, but never treat any situation as routine or ordinary.
Like I said, it's a hard goddamn balance and even you acknowledge if somebody wants to they can set up on you in ways where you realistically don't have a chance. Maybe there were things Jarrott could have done differently that might have changed things but that's maybe's and might's and he still might have ended up dead.
But thats not how that works. If a boxer gets knocked out because he dropped his hands and absorbed a left hook, we can attribute his loss to dropping his hands. We can say that if he had kept his hands up, he would not have been knocked out by that left hook and would have had a fighting chance to win the match. We don't know if the boxer would have eventually won, but we know that had he kept his hands up, the knockout would not have occurred and the fight would've continued. Thats what we see know. An officer that let his guard down and an opponent who took advantage of that.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-15-21, 00:06
You say that. But you can do absolutely everything right and still die.
I suppose that’s why I never really look forward to the future very much.
Cancer, Coronary, Crash, or Capped. I’m sure at least one of these will happen to me eventually on a long enough timeline.
My greatest fear is actually living to be elderly. I don’t think I would survive it
No, I totally agree. I do my best to mitigate risk and control what I can, but I am alive today because I am lucky, not because I am good.
If I don’t kill your ass, then you’ll eventually get over it if I shove a gun in your face and advise you to cooperate like yer life depended on it.
But your scenario is a word problem that could be perpetually “What if’d” and caveated.
The Trooper knew he was in over his head but was bullshitted like most State Troopers into not knowing when to roll off so he stuck to his little dialogue tree and ritual.
You gotta be able to see, hear, vibe, smell, and just feel a stop. I stopped a dude years ago coming back from a machine gun shoot with all kindsa UZIs, Stens, and he was wearing Camo. We nerded out for a spell and I cur him loose. He had enough hardware and ammo to raid Saipan. But he had a good aura.
Then there was this one guy with some hidden mouse gun who just gave me a vibe. Warrants, dope, the whole nine.
It’s the Second Sight. Like what they call Samadhi. You cannot learn it nor teach it.
Ol buddy didn’t have it and he got killed
Honestly if anybody hears my words, if you catch a vibe you cannot explain and have no immediate back up; just let them go or just leave and drive off.
You actually can do that
Ok, so I've had the polite discourse with an LE when I was rolling a MP5 on the passenger seat. I was calm and knew how to talk to cops without freaking them out and he was an experienced officer who quickly understood I wasn't actually a threat.
I'm glad you know what I'm talking about but at the same time if you drew on me, I'm going to remain calm and collected but still consider it very impolite and it will be taken up at a later time. I've been through that twice and while nobody got shot on one occasion I did make an issue out of it later, because the guy was really, really wrong about a few things and needed to know.
Of course my awareness would be extremely heightened if I pulled you over and you had a pistol and rifle. I will do what I can to mitigate risk without being unprofessional. So, I'll likely stay behind the pillars, I may call for a cover car, and I'll ask that you don't touch your guns. I'll talk to you in a nice conversational tone and I'll show you respect, but I will also be mentally prepared for the possibility that you may want to grab one of those guns. But, I won't show. Now, if you started to exhibit aggression, intoxication, or made furtive movements, I'd wait til a cover officer arrived and then ask you to step out the car until the stop ended. Obvious bad guy with guns is a far different scenario than obvious good guys with guns. You guys can twist that and tear me apart for it all you want, but homie with face tats and an AR will likely be asked to exit the vehicle, where as a gentleman of any color that gives off a good guy vibe won't be.
I pull over tons of lawfully armed folks, as long as I set myself up for success, I can be cool as a cucumber throughout the stop because I know I have my bases covered.
You may not see any "OMG" things about his stop, but that's because we have different experiences. Passenger side approaches are safe for highway stops, and allow you to see alot of the inside of the car. They can still be done behind a pillar; offset from the driver, causing the driver to crane his neck to talk to you. This makes it much harder for a suspect to shoot from their seat. If he wanted the driver out of the vehicle, he should've remained at the window, engaging the driver in conversation/running a clearance via radio if possible, until cover arrived. Then, and only then, should he have moved to the driver side and then asked him to exit while the cover officer provided security.
Had he waited for cover, he would likely have survived. Had he been on the driver side when asking the driver to exit he would have likely survived. He got complacent, and complacency kills. In this line of work, we debrief relentlessly and pick apart videos like this all the time. We don't do it to monday morning QB or denigrate the fallen, we do it so we can learn from the incident and get better. The officer made mistakes that cost him his life.
There is no "ordinary stop" if you condition yourself to live with a heightened sense of awareness. Treat everyone with respect and kindness, but never treat any situation as routine or ordinary.
But thats not how that works. If a boxer gets knocked out because he dropped his hands and absorbed a left hook, we can attribute his loss to dropping his hands. We can say that if he had kept his hands up, he would not have been knocked out by that left hook and would have had a fighting chance to win the match. We don't know if the boxer would have eventually won, but we know that had he kept his hands up, the knockout would not have occurred and the fight would've continued. Thats what we see know. An officer that let his guard down and an opponent who took advantage of that.
So obviously we don't want to do 10 pages and I bolded the most important part of your statement. I completely agree with "cover your bases" and other due diligence but sometimes you need to work without a net because somebody is just retarded but they aren't being a legit threat (or you are 90% positive they aren't a legit threat).
I think the three of us are mostly on the same page but just looking at it from different sides. While not directed to you, lots of cops find fault with the actions of some LEO who just got shot on YT as a way to self reinforce "can't happen to me, he made a mistake, I won't do that" and while that validation is important and helps keep you on your toes I still stop shot of "Jarrott did something wrong" because I personally believe he was set up in a bad place without sufficient information by reprehensible assholes who didn't want to do their own job.
I think you guys both keyed in on a point where Jarrott realized "something's wrong" but it was too late and he didn't have time to process to "this guy is going to try and kill me right now" before it actually started happening.
And I hope I'm not coming across too hard like I'm debating you, this one just really pissed me off. The first time I saw it, I sorta had a sick feeling for a couple minutes and that's rare these days. Last time I got that from a video was probably the Daniel Pearl video and if you don't know what it is already don't go looking for it.
Question for the law enforcement here: I know that DHS didn’t give this poor trooper enough intel, but when DHS asks you to initiate a stop, wouldn’t that set off alarm bells? As in, don’t treat this stop casually in any way, shape, or form? I don’t think the trooper did treat it casually, but neither did he seem to be trying to control the situation. Was he trying to get the driver to drop his guard?
And what was the reason for trying to get him out of the car? Or was that part of the plan from DHS.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Ok, so I've had the polite discourse with an LE when I was rolling a MP5 on the passenger seat. I was calm and knew how to talk to cops without freaking them out and he was an experienced officer who quickly understood I wasn't actually a threat.
I'm glad you know what I'm talking about but at the same time if you drew on me, I'm going to remain calm and collected but still consider it very impolite and it will be taken up at a later time. I've been through that twice and while nobody got shot on one occasion I did make an issue out of it later, because the guy was really, really wrong about a few things and needed to know.
I say this not trying to sound douchey but I would rather get complained on rather than be paralyzed with a colostomy or dead. I’m at a point in life where complaints don’t register with me (not that I get complained on really).
Without veering into “what if” territory, you can kinda suss out the difference between someone just hauling a gun versus someone up to no good.
And Again without my words being used as a template for any What If: Choose Your Own Adventure mental extrapolation, I say this:
If I am not 100% on someone armed, I would rather ask them out of the vehicle where I am at the advantage and can see everything with a positive reaction gap. At the first sign of non-compliance then I am egressing while drawn or I am going to close and shove a gun in his face. A legitimate honest person will understand. A dishonest person realizes he is losing his advantage and will show his cards.
It’s Art and Science. There’s not always a concrete answer. Only a broadly worded statute, perhaps case law, and a policy.
Side of the road is no place to argue or be Rosa Parks.
That said, I’ve let people be actively holstered up with whatever guns in their vehicle because you can tell they were shooting or hunting or whatever dumb shit they were doing.
If I see or smell weed or liquor or a beaten up woman or child or somebody giving me the “oh shit oh shit” stare; then I’m probably not going to be so liberal about it.
Same if a person is sizing me up. That’s absolutely a fast track to gun in face time. If I see someone wanting to try their cowboy hand or staring at my gun then I will gladly give them a closer look.
The Cartel guy was obviously sizing this trooper up and the trooper knew it but still went along like it was Leroy with a Dimebag.
None of you know just how many police officers seriously don’t believe someone will actually kill them. The bodycam on his corpse is giving you a Body eye view of what it’s like to be dead. You’re just waste at that point.
I won’t lie and say my life cosmically matters. It doesn’t and most likely I’m going to Hell. But it is my life and there is a principle at play here so you’re gonna have to work for it if you wanna kill me
Question for the law enforcement here: I know that DHS didn’t give this poor trooper enough intel, but when DHS asks you to initiate a stop, wouldn’t that set off alarm bells? As in, don’t treat this stop casually in any way, shape, or form? I don’t think the trooper did treat it casually, but neither did he seem to be trying to control the situation. Was he trying to get the driver to drop his guard?
And what was the reason for trying to get him out of the car? Or was that part of the plan from DHS.
Sent from 80ms in the future
It most certainly would and they would be told to get fcked. Cartel knows a “tint meter” stop is find a fish BS and that he was getting moved on.
Everybody knew what was going to happen but the trooper until he was past the point of no return.
I say this not trying to sound douchey but I would rather get complained on rather than be paralyzed with a colostomy or dead. I’m at a point in life where complaints don’t register with me (not that I get complained on really).
Without veering into “what if” territory, you can kinda suss out the difference between someone just hauling a gun versus someone up to no good.
And Again without my words being used as a template for any What If: Choose Your Own Adventure mental extrapolation, I say this:
If I am not 100% on someone armed, I would rather ask them out of the vehicle where I am at the advantage and can see everything with a positive reaction gap. At the first sign of non-compliance then I am egressing while drawn or I am going to close and shove a gun in his face. A legitimate honest person will understand. A dishonest person realizes he is losing his advantage and will show his cards.
It’s Art and Science. There’s not always a concrete answer. Only a broadly worded statute, perhaps case law, and a policy.
Side of the road is no place to argue or be Rosa Parks.
That said, I’ve let people be actively holstered up with whatever guns in their vehicle because you can tell they were shooting or hunting or whatever dumb shit they were doing.
If I see or smell weed or liquor or a beaten up woman or child or somebody giving me the “oh shit oh shit” stare; then I’m probably not going to be so liberal about it.
Same if a person is sizing me up. That’s absolutely a fast track to gun in face time. If I see someone wanting to try their cowboy hand or staring at my gun then I will gladly give them a closer look.
The Cartel guy was obviously sizing this trooper up and the trooper knew it but still went along like it was Leroy with a Dimebag.
None of you know just how many police officers seriously don’t believe someone will actually kill them. The bodycam on his corpse is giving you a Body eye view of what it’s like to be dead. You’re just waste at that point.
I won’t lie and say my life cosmically matters. It doesn’t and most likely I’m going to Hell. But it is my life and there is a principle at play here so you’re gonna have to work for it if you wanna kill me
And I wouldn't want you to get killed or crippled either. I think we both have a "don't show me yours and I won't show you mine" understanding.
Like I said, been through it twice. Once really bothered me because it was all wrong, the other didn't bother me because I quickly got on the same page and we moved passed.
Btw, last time I starred at a cops gun was because she was rolling a really old Beretta with wooden grips and I hadn't seen that in a long time. She probably thought I was checking out her ass. Normally it's just a quick glance "Ugh, Glock...man you need to step up to something better." Anyone still rolling 1911s get's a "nice sidearm" comment.
vicious_cb
04-15-21, 02:57
LIKE I SAID, Never help a Fed.
If DEA and Marshals are kitted up like they are ready to invade Stalingrad and your piddly ass is wearing Class As and Corframs then that is when you tell them to toss off.
As soon as he went on about tint, I knew he was a dead man.
The actual cartel players are not stupid. The Trooper was the butt of a cruel and sick joke and I hope his family sues
Lets see if his command staff raises a stink about the feds who got him killed.
Lets see if his fellow officers stage a walk out or do anything to try hold the feds responsible.
Lets see if those 2 feds get fired for gross incompetence.
I bet they wont.
After 4 pages you are the only one mentioning trying to hold the feds who served him up responsible. Looks like you are one of the few people who gets it. All the useless outrage "OMG he shot him point blank in the head, OH THE HORROR!!!" isnt going to do anything. All the videos of the cartels chopping people up and melting faces off with a blow torch and people still don't understand that animals are going to do what animals are going to do.
gunnerblue
04-15-21, 03:18
Here's the thing, let's say YOU pull ME over and I've got a SIG on my hip and what looks exactly like a M4 on the seat next to me only it's actually an airsoft because I was running indoor drills in my friends basement.
Are you gonna go Defcon 2 on me? I haven't done anything wrong yet, but from your perspective I'm probably pinging everything hard. But if you draw on me, I'm going to be very upset and you'll probably hear a lot about it later.
Like I said, it's a hard goddamn balance and even you acknowledge if somebody wants to they can set up on you in ways where you realistically don't have a chance. Maybe there were things Jarrott could have done differently that might have changed things but that's maybe's and might's and he still might have ended up dead.
I didn't see any big "OMG that's just wrong" things, I didn't see anything that struck me as "he's gonna get himself killed doing it like that", I mostly just saw a guy who wasn't given enough information and wasn't given much of a chance.
The fact that "the Feds" apparently directed him to do a "ordinary stop" already put him at a mental disadvantage because they clearly didn't indicate that he should exercise any kind of additional caution.
I don't like "what ifs" because you can always argue into something that's unwinnable anyway so I'll just say that almost everyone I encounter in the field is armed, usually handguns and often concealed but often with longarms (sometimes more than one) as well and not just during hunting season. I have never gone Defcon 2 simply because I saw a firearm. I'd be lying, tho, if I said it made no matter because the fact is I don't know YOU or your intentions off the get-go.
Most of the time I end up just talking about gun nerd stuff for a minute and then we're all friends.
Also, airsoft gun or not, if it looks like a M4 then that's how it will be seen.
Lets see if his command staff raises a stink about the feds who got him killed.
Lets see if his fellow officers stage a walk out or do anything to try hold the feds responsible.
Lets see if those 2 feds get fired for gross incompetence.
I bet they wont.
After 4 pages you are the only one mentioning trying to hold the feds who served him up responsible. Looks like you are one of the few people who gets it. All the useless outrage "OMG he shot him point blank in the head, OH THE HORROR!!!" isnt going to do anything. All the videos of the cartels chopping people up and melting faces off with a blow torch and people still don't understand that animals are going to do what animals are going to do.
Ummmm HELLO.
Post 16:
That DHS had a local officer initiate a stop with no warning of what he was dealing with is so negligent I don't know where to start. Heads need to roll.
Post 18:
It needs to be the main focus in my opinion. Sure as shit the current administration is gonna focus on the firearm used, but this is worse than Fast and Furious (where ATF lost track of firearms deliberately provided to drug cartels, one of which was used to murder a border patrol officer), in this case it very much seems that DHS blindly walked this officer into his own death and could have orchestrated events in such a way where they directly participated in the traffic stop / first contact and provided direct support but chose not to.
This might be the worst thing I have ever seen.
Your comment about state and local LE enforcing federal law notwithstanding, I think the real take away is state and local LE can no longer simply trust federal law enforcement for anything. Everyone involved in this operation from the top down to the guys who were only "minutes away" need to be investigated, fired and sentenced.
vicious_cb
04-15-21, 03:31
Ummmm HELLO.
Post 16:
Post 18:
Sorry, I guess you also get it.
Sometimes it hard to sift through all your tl,dr posts.
Sorry, I guess you also get it.
Sometimes it hard to sift through all your tl,dr posts.
Mine was short. :rolleyes:
Obviously the federal involvement isn't getting much air time.
This incident is something for state/local police and private citizens to keep in mind when it is claimed state/local police have nothing to do with enforcing federal laws.
hotrodder636
04-15-21, 06:53
Holy crap. I wish I didn’t make the choice to watch that video. That was really hard to watch, especially when the POS shot the officer multiple times after he was down including the final shot. F%ck
Is there another source for video? Could not see on YT and couldn't find it elsewhere.
Never mind. Found it.
Yea, feds set him up.
I haven't posted here in a while. Been busy with Spring Round-up and working with a movie company filming a new series out here.
I watched the video, and I am kind of numb to this kind of thing. I've seen so much more worse over the years in my previous profession. My feelings go to the widow (who is pregnant) and his three little kids. Locals here in New Mexico are going to take care of that family.
Looking at all that could have been done by the State Police Officer, he could have remained in the patrol car or behind the protection of an open door, and broadcasted orders while awaiting back-up. Did the State Police Officer know everything the Federal Officers knew? Did the State Police Officer have in the back of his mind all the anti-police activity going on nationwide when he took a less confrontational approach to this cartel member? If the State Police Officer was more confrontational and the bad guy was killed, it would have been used as another anti-police incident. Conversely, the use of the AR type of weapon to kill the officer provides for an assault weapons ban incident by the Left. It's already been brought up by politicians in this State.
Now we are told that police don't need lethal weaponry for traffic stops, as well as policing as we know it needs to change, while attempts to disarm the population. I agree, Policing needs to change, but maybe in a way the Left won't like. I have heard discussions in rural New Mexico that at some point, we may see a return to the Vigilante system with small squads of armed LE eliminating the worst of the worst in society, in places where there are no cameras and witnesses. Kind of like Charles Bronson's "Death Wish" or Edward Woodward's "Equalizer" on steroids. Talk about "Due Process"....we would call this "Overdue Process" for the enemies of decent citizens who want this criminal element off the streets.
If we're going to be a nation where the rule of law doesn't matter any longer, then the citizenry and LE will have to adjust in how we engage the lawless.
...If we're going to be a nation where the rule of law doesn't matter any longer...
That's what America (4.0?) is, yes, you are correct.
I want motion activated LASERS. And 10 miles of land mines in front of the wall.
On THEIR side. :mad:
You're being replaced with more docile drones.
That used to be called "TINFOIL"........I know 'cause I used to get called that a lot.....Funny, I don't hear that so much anymore....F'ing Normies...
ChattanoogaPhil
04-15-21, 10:31
He was 13 years old when he was arrested for vandalism, which was his first arrest. He was found guilty in June 1994.
In June 2000, he was found guilty of possession of a controlled substance.
He was found guilty of the same crime in September 2001.
In October 2002, he was accused of knowingly and intentionally importing approximately 37 pounds of cocaine into the U.S. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to prison time and supervised release.
In April 2004, he was found guilty of importation of cocaine.
In August 2006, he was found guilty of writing a fictitious check, writing a false check and burglary.
In March 2007, he was found guilty of probation violation.
In March 2008, he was found guilty of importation of a controlled substance again.
In September 2010, he was charged with possession with intent to distribute crystal methamphetamine.
In October 2010, he and two other men were accused of knowingly and intentionally possessing several pounds of methamphetamine with intent to distribute the drug.
In August 2011, he pleaded guilty to three counts of using a cellphone to facilitate a drug offense and was sentenced to 10 years in prison.
On February 4, 2021, he was driving his white Chevrolet pickup truck....
https://conandaily.com/2021/04/09/omar-felix-cueva-biography-13-things-about-darian-jarrotts-killer/
----------
Until 2021... this guy would have been characterized as a 'non-violent offender' and victimized by a racist justice system putting people behind bars who don't belong there.
It most certainly would and they would be told to get fcked. Cartel knows a “tint meter” stop is find a fish BS and that he was getting moved on.
Everybody knew what was going to happen but the trooper until he was past the point of no return.
I guess that’s what I’m asking - how come this trooper wasn’t more switched on about DHS asking him to pull a guy over for BS as a delay tactic? DHS isn’t going to ask you to slow-roll some guy who boosts cars or is making fake IDs. I’m not trying to MMQB or victim blame, but this trooper had to have had at least some experience with pulling over known bad guys.
Think about it this way; nothing in my job has life-threatening consequences attached to it. But when my boss asks me to work with another company, no one has to tell me to be careful about how I deal with what’s going on. I’m definitely paying extra attention to everything that’s going on, and not assuming the other company is going to do everything the right way, or that they’ll hesitate for one second to throw me under the bus when one of their people cock something up. It’s my job on the line.
Especially reading what I am about some feds being ok with using local PD as cannon fodder, why would it be any different in policing?
Sent from 80ms in the future
I'm stunned. Won't be able to un-see that shit. Glad to here that dirtbag got his instead of three squares and cable TV.
I’m not a polic officer and I don’t know about the whole deal with the feds and being set up and all.
However, I can tell you that officer made a huge mistake by letting that guy step out of the vehicle with his long arm. He wasn’t even watching him while he did it! Absolutely crazy to me. One look at that guys mug shot says bad news written all over it. No way I would let him touch his weapon and I would of had my weapon drawn and ready until he was moved away from that weapon. Such a tragic mistake and it cost him his life. Everything about that guy would of set off my internal alarms. That officer would likely be home with his family if he wasn’t so complacent.
I guess that’s what I’m asking - how come this trooper wasn’t more switched on about DHS asking him to pull a guy over for BS as a delay tactic? DHS isn’t going to ask you to slow-roll some guy who boosts cars or is making fake IDs. I’m not trying to MMQB or victim blame, but this trooper had to have had at least some experience with pulling over known bad guys.
Think about it this way; nothing in my job has life-threatening consequences attached to it. But when my boss asks me to work with another company, no one has to tell me to be careful about how I deal with what’s going on. I’m definitely paying extra attention to everything that’s going on, and not assuming the other company is going to do everything the right way, or that they’ll hesitate for one second to throw me under the bus when one of their people cock something up. It’s my job on the line.
Especially reading what I am about some feds being ok with using local PD as cannon fodder, why would it be any different in policing?
Sent from 80ms in the future
I’m going to try to answer this as well as I can.
Most officers today really aren’t like they used to be. They have gotten kind of nerfed and job scared from the indoctrination over the years. There is an air that you can talk or sir sandwich your way out of anything. People either want to play stateside soldier (which is SUPER Gay) or play social worker (which is naive). Good old fashioned American police work very rarely involved Skinheads and Oakleys or acting like a total homo. It all boiled down to reading a scene and reading people. There are living legends to this day (but rapidly aging out) who can tell a crowd to get gone and go they do. They built a reputation of being a brutal hardass in their youth but aged in the system and now just try to get people home. They are known where they police.
The thesis is that the old guard is part of the worlds they enforce. These new people just get brainwashed and do what they are told no matter how grotesquely stupid and then think someone will save them.
American LE work is not like the Army. I openly tell people that I know who I work for and who I don’t. When I was younger, I had some Alphabet people try to rope me into something silly and retarded and dangerous. Luckily I had older people looking out for me who told them to fvck off.
There are no amounts of drugs worth a human life and using this man as a canary was unethical and cruel. They could have done their own work but were lazy and hung up on themselves.
Without benefit of hindsight, let’s say I made that stop because I was really a Boy Scout over equipment violations. But this dude had tats and shorty AR and just looked like Cartel. I would have stalled, asked him to stay in his vehicle, and walked back to mine where I have an AR and other fun tricks and called for extra cars. I wouldn’t say shot about his gun or whatever. Play dumb.
If he wants to fight, I have reaction gap, cover, and a fixed fighting position behind my vehicle.
If he takes the opportunity to just peel off, that’s perfectly 10-4 with me. I got a tag. I got cavalry coming. I am alive and able to do things. He will crash, run out of gas, or be looking down the pipes of 20 M4s one way or another.
He just wasn’t prepared that day and he was murdered as a result.
I mean it’s a spicy opinion but if you’re getting into policework to make a living then you are doing it wrong.
Like you have to on a subliminal level be somewhat sociopathic and not really care about living or dying and trade off a baseline level safety and security for the privilege of not having to stock shelves, wear a suit and tie, or keep going to college. I initially wanted to do computer programming and went to college for it. But then I realized that I didn’t want to stay in a cubicle or whatever. I just fell into it. Seriously. Computers were my life as a kid. We could only afford a super cheap PC and I farted around on DOS or I wrote code on a notebook for COBOL and waited to get to the lab to see if it worked. I had no real interest in LE or anything. Guns were cool but no more or less cool than Sega Genesis or Soundgarden.
But I get a modest but steady check and nobody riding my ass and despite my totally hating all of humanity and wishing Gozer or Darkseid was real......
I do actually get to help people and see my handiwork.
And the tragedy is that most people fall into it thinking people still respect authority and society which is probably what happened to old buddy
Here's the thing, let's say YOU pull ME over and I've got a SIG on my hip and what looks exactly like a M4 on the seat next to me only it's actually an airsoft because I was running indoor drills in my friends basement.
Are you gonna go Defcon 2 on me? I haven't done anything wrong yet, but from your perspective I'm probably pinging everything hard. But if you draw on me, I'm going to be very upset and you'll probably hear a lot about it later.
Like I said, it's a hard goddamn balance and even you acknowledge if somebody wants to they can set up on you in ways where you realistically don't have a chance. Maybe there were things Jarrott could have done differently that might have changed things but that's maybe's and might's and he still might have ended up dead.
I didn't see any big "OMG that's just wrong" things, I didn't see anything that struck me as "he's gonna get himself killed doing it like that", I mostly just saw a guy who wasn't given enough information and wasn't given much of a chance.
The fact that "the Feds" apparently directed him to do a "ordinary stop" already put him at a mental disadvantage because they clearly didn't indicate that he should exercise any kind of additional caution.
Here is Brandon Tatum using this crime to justify the scenario you are describing.
https://youtu.be/VgBMnJyOiT0
You know normally I don’t care for Brandon Tatum and his six months of police experience but he actually is cogently Blacksplaining why playing Rosa Parks on a simple traffic stop is universally stupid and dumb. And honestly it makes Mister Lieutenant Man look like a total ass because if any of his enlisted failed to salute or didn’t toss on a Sir suffix or hep to his orders no matter how asinine or conceited; he would waste zero time writing up some Counseling for that person, but here he feels like his utter Blackness is being challenged just for being asked repeatedly to put his hands out the window and cut off his engine.
If someone doesn’t stop for a mile or whatnot it certainly does make one a mite concerned as to their intentions.
I’m going to try to answer this as well as I can.
Most officers today really aren’t like they used to be. They have gotten kind of nerfed and job scared from the indoctrination over the years. There is an air that you can talk or sir sandwich your way out of anything. People either want to play stateside soldier (which is SUPER Gay) or play social worker (which is naive). Good old fashioned American police work very rarely involved Skinheads and Oakleys or acting like a total homo. It all boiled down to reading a scene and reading people. There are living legends to this day (but rapidly aging out) who can tell a crowd to get gone and go they do. They built a reputation of being a brutal hardass in their youth but aged in the system and now just try to get people home. They are known where they police.
The thesis is that the old guard is part of the worlds they enforce. These new people just get brainwashed and do what they are told no matter how grotesquely stupid and then think someone will save them.
American LE work is not like the Army. I openly tell people that I know who I work for and who I don’t. When I was younger, I had some Alphabet people try to rope me into something silly and retarded and dangerous. Luckily I had older people looking out for me who told them to fvck off.
There are no amounts of drugs worth a human life and using this man as a canary was unethical and cruel. They could have done their own work but were lazy and hung up on themselves.
Without benefit of hindsight, let’s say I made that stop because I was really a Boy Scout over equipment violations. But this dude had tats and shorty AR and just looked like Cartel. I would have stalled, asked him to stay in his vehicle, and walked back to mine where I have an AR and other fun tricks and called for extra cars. I wouldn’t say shot about his gun or whatever. Play dumb.
If he wants to fight, I have reaction gap, cover, and a fixed fighting position behind my vehicle.
If he takes the opportunity to just peel off, that’s perfectly 10-4 with me. I got a tag. I got cavalry coming. I am alive and able to do things. He will crash, run out of gas, or be looking down the pipes of 20 M4s one way or another.
He just wasn’t prepared that day and he was murdered as a result.
I mean it’s a spicy opinion but if you’re getting into policework to make a living then you are doing it wrong.
Like you have to on a subliminal level be somewhat sociopathic and not really care about living or dying and trade off a baseline level safety and security for the privilege of not having to stock shelves, wear a suit and tie, or keep going to college. I initially wanted to do computer programming and went to college for it. But then I realized that I didn’t want to stay in a cubicle or whatever. I just fell into it. Seriously. Computers were my life as a kid. We could only afford a super cheap PC and I farted around on DOS or I wrote code on a notebook for COBOL and waited to get to the lab to see if it worked. I had no real interest in LE or anything. Guns were cool but no more or less cool than Sega Genesis or Soundgarden.
But I get a modest but steady check and nobody riding my ass and despite my totally hating all of humanity and wishing Gozer or Darkseid was real......
I do actually get to help people and see my handiwork.
And the tragedy is that most people fall into it thinking people still respect authority and society which is probably what happened to old buddy
Playing dumb is so overlooked these days by young officers. A few nights ago we were in a hotel parking lot looking for a stolen vehicle on a tip. We were walking in the parking lot and the vehicle was pulling in. I told the other 2 officers “ hey guys, that’s the car right there”. The older officer and myself just started walking away like we were carrying on a conversation so we could get to our units. The younger cop took off running towards his car and the car took off. Playing dumb can get you out of a jam for sure. Criminals always think you know more than you do anyhow.
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You know normally I don’t care for Brandon Tatum and his six months of police experience but he actually is cogently Blacksplaining why playing Rosa Parks on a simple traffic stop is universally stupid and dumb. And honestly it makes Mister Lieutenant Man look like a total ass because if any of his enlisted failed to salute or didn’t toss on a Sir suffix or hep to his orders no matter how asinine or conceited; he would waste zero time writing up some Counseling for that person, but here he feels like his utter Blackness is being challenged just for being asked repeatedly to put his hands out the window and cut off his engine.
If someone doesn’t stop for a mile or whatnot it certainly does make one a mite concerned as to their intentions.
He was told to keep his hands out the window alternating with being told to shut the vehicle off and knuckle. Maybe he was aware of the Daniel Shaver and Mesa PD conflicting commands outcome. The 2 officers seem to have written their report a little different than what was shown by the body cam too.
He was told to keep his hands out the window alternating with being told to shut the vehicle off and knuckle. Maybe he was aware of the Daniel Shaver and Mesa PD conflicting commands outcome. The 2 officers seem to have written their report a little different than what was shown by the body cam too.
Some agencies are not allowed to view their camera footage before writing a report. If this is the case I’m sure there will be small differences. I challenge you to remember every detail of an incident under stress and compare it to a video
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He was told to keep his hands out the window alternating with being told to shut the vehicle off and knuckle. Maybe he was aware of the Daniel Shaver and Mesa PD conflicting commands outcome. The 2 officers seem to have written their report a little different than what was shown by the body cam too.
Pretty sure he didn’t give two shits about Mesa PD much less known about it.
Some agencies are not allowed to view their camera footage before writing a report. If this is the case I’m sure there will be small differences. I challenge you to remember every detail of an incident under stress and compare it to a video
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This. I got cut up with a box cutter once and didn’t even know it until I wiped this warm red sweat off my arm and then it started hurting.
Some agencies are not allowed to view their camera footage before writing a report. If this is the case I’m sure there will be small differences. I challenge you to remember every detail of an incident under stress and compare it to a video
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Somehow they recalled Nazario hitting them which isn't in the video.
This. I got cut up with a box cutter once and didn’t even know it until I wiped this warm red sweat off my arm and then it started hurting.
I think I’d rather take a round than be cut up
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I think I’d rather take a round than be cut up
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It didn’t hurt until later. The scars have faded over the years. I mean, I didn’t feel it. Faded but still there.
I naively thought they’d be gone by now. No. At least it wasn’t my face or anything too deep.
I think I’d rather take a round than be cut up
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Was at a class one time and the topic came up of why people often shy away more from someone getting too cavalier with a knife than unsafe gun handling. Theory was just about everyone has been cut, but not shot. Only person there who had been shot(at least twice in the arm) was the instructor, but he was busy with the other half of the class at the time.
For LE here, maybe you can educate me:
Can you legally be ordered from your vehicle without being told why you are being stopped? I am guessing you have to produce a drivers license since you are operating a vehicle on a public road, but some have argued this is a Constitutional violation. In other words, you cannot be forced to identify yourself until you have been notified as to why you are being stopped. I've watched the video of the 2LT and his stop, and that 1.5 mile roll to a lighted location certainly might have raised suspicion.
I had an incident years ago in Albuquerque where I was sitting at an outside table of a burger joint, and a plain clothes drug bust went down on the street in front of me. I had been photographing that day and had my Nikon with me. I raised the camera to my eye and used my telephoto lens to get a closer view. Two of the plain clothes Albuquerque cops came over and demanded my ID and asked why I was taking pictures. I told them I was just eating a burger and drinking a Coke. They threatened to arrest me if I didn't produce my ID. I pulled out my Drivers License and showed it to them. They made some threatening talk but eventually just walked off.
For LE here, maybe you can educate me:
Can you legally be ordered from your vehicle without being told why you are being stopped? I am guessing you have to produce a drivers license since you are operating a vehicle on a public road, but some have argued this is a Constitutional violation. In other words, you cannot be forced to identify yourself until you have been notified as to why you are being stopped. I've watched the video of the 2LT and his stop, and that 1.5 mile roll to a lighted location certainly might have raised suspicion.
I had an incident years ago in Albuquerque where I was sitting at an outside table of a burger joint, and a plain clothes drug bust went down on the street in front of me. I had been photographing that day and had my Nikon with me. I raised the camera to my eye and used my telephoto lens to get a closer view. Two of the plain clothes Albuquerque cops came over and demanded my ID and asked why I was taking pictures. I told them I was just eating a burger and drinking a Coke. They threatened to arrest me if I didn't produce my ID. I pulled out my Drivers License and showed it to them. They made some threatening talk but eventually just walked off.
I work nights so usually I tell the driver to grab his DL, registration and insurance and step to to the rear of his vehicle. Once I have his info I explain the reason for the stop. I learned a long time ago that trying to get the DL AFTER the argument had begun it’s a lot harder. A lot of people believe court is held on the side of the roadway. I’m sure each state and each department has its own set of dos and donts and I am not up on the legal requirements of other states.
And to the other point, I don’t mind if anyone records me from a safe distance as long as you don’t get involved. Heck, I already have a dash camera and body camera on so what’s one more from a distance.
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For LE here, maybe you can educate me:
Can you legally be ordered from your vehicle without being told why you are being stopped? I am guessing you have to produce a drivers license since you are operating a vehicle on a public road, but some have argued this is a Constitutional violation. In other words, you cannot be forced to identify yourself until you have been notified as to why you are being stopped. I've watched the video of the 2LT and his stop, and that 1.5 mile roll to a lighted location certainly might have raised suspicion.
I had an incident years ago in Albuquerque where I was sitting at an outside table of a burger joint, and a plain clothes drug bust went down on the street in front of me. I had been photographing that day and had my Nikon with me. I raised the camera to my eye and used my telephoto lens to get a closer view. Two of the plain clothes Albuquerque cops came over and demanded my ID and asked why I was taking pictures. I told them I was just eating a burger and drinking a Coke. They threatened to arrest me if I didn't produce my ID. I pulled out my Drivers License and showed it to them. They made some threatening talk but eventually just walked off.
Not a cop, but looked up the not required to tell you what the stop is about and that is apparently legit in at least some states.
That being said, the officers escalated the situation by not stating "why" which would have taken no more time than issuing the execution threat(no idea if he knew what he was saying, but that is it) and confirming that he should be afraid to exit the vehicle as they were demanding.
Also, according to the lawsuit he drove less than a mile to a BP after the officer hit the lights close to a Food Lion as well as slowing down with his hazard lights on. Checking Google maps for that town shows the Food Lion parking lot(set back from the main road a bit) to the BP is 1.1 miles so the claims on time and distance seen to be getting exaggerated. The officer mentioned he drove past one business that was lit, but looking at the other business types on that street and considering the time it is unlikely there would be any witnesses present.
I doubt your experience was legal and there have been more than a few lawsuits won with similar details.
Not a cop, but looked up the not required to tell you what the stop is about and that is apparently legit in at least some states.
That being said, the officers escalated the situation by not stating "why" which would have taken no more time than issuing the execution threat(no idea if he knew what he was saying, but that is it) and confirming that he should be afraid to exit the vehicle as they were demanding.
Also, according to the lawsuit he drove less than a mile to a BP after the officer hit the lights close to a Food Lion as well as slowing down with his hazard lights on. Checking Google maps for that town shows the Food Lion parking lot(set back from the main road a bit) to the BP is 1.1 miles so the claims on time and distance seen to be getting exaggerated. The officer mentioned he drove past one business that was lit, but looking at the other business types on that street and considering the time it is unlikely there would be any witnesses present.
I doubt your experience was legal and there have been more than a few lawsuits won with similar details.
I’m not putting a lot of time into researching it but off the top of your head do you know of this place is a small town? I know some small town LEOs are like MPs or SPs on a secure flight line just waiting to get into something [emoji16]
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I’m not putting a lot of time into researching it but off the top of your head do you know of this place is a small town? I know some small town LEOs are like MPs or SPs on a secure flight line just waiting to get into something [emoji16]
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Terrible at estimating size, but the aerial view looked like most small communities around here, fairly big growth spurt though.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Windsor-Virginia.html
Population in 2019: 2,758 (0% urban, 100% rural). Population change since 2000: +201.1%
gunnerblue
04-15-21, 21:38
For LE here, maybe you can educate me:
Can you legally be ordered from your vehicle without being told why you are being stopped? I am guessing you have to produce a drivers license since you are operating a vehicle on a public road, but some have argued this is a Constitutional violation. In other words, you cannot be forced to identify yourself until you have been notified as to why you are being stopped. I've watched the video of the 2LT and his stop, and that 1.5 mile roll to a lighted location certainly might have raised suspicion.
I had an incident years ago in Albuquerque where I was sitting at an outside table of a burger joint, and a plain clothes drug bust went down on the street in front of me. I had been photographing that day and had my Nikon with me. I raised the camera to my eye and used my telephoto lens to get a closer view. Two of the plain clothes Albuquerque cops came over and demanded my ID and asked why I was taking pictures. I told them I was just eating a burger and drinking a Coke. They threatened to arrest me if I didn't produce my ID. I pulled out my Drivers License and showed it to them. They made some threatening talk but eventually just walked off.
Short answer, yes, you can be ordered from your vehicle without being explained as to why, e.g. felony stop.
In your example, I'd guess that the officers were just bullying you counting on either their, or your own, ignorance on the legality.
gunnerblue
04-15-21, 21:38
For LE here, maybe you can educate me:
Can you legally be ordered from your vehicle without being told why you are being stopped? I am guessing you have to produce a drivers license since you are operating a vehicle on a public road, but some have argued this is a Constitutional violation. In other words, you cannot be forced to identify yourself until you have been notified as to why you are being stopped. I've watched the video of the 2LT and his stop, and that 1.5 mile roll to a lighted location certainly might have raised suspicion.
I had an incident years ago in Albuquerque where I was sitting at an outside table of a burger joint, and a plain clothes drug bust went down on the street in front of me. I had been photographing that day and had my Nikon with me. I raised the camera to my eye and used my telephoto lens to get a closer view. Two of the plain clothes Albuquerque cops came over and demanded my ID and asked why I was taking pictures. I told them I was just eating a burger and drinking a Coke. They threatened to arrest me if I didn't produce my ID. I pulled out my Drivers License and showed it to them. They made some threatening talk but eventually just walked off.
Short answer, yes, you can be ordered from your vehicle without being explained as to why, e.g. felony stop.
In your example, I'd guess that the officers were just bullying you counting on either their, or your own, ignorance on the legality.
Short answer, yes, you can be ordered from your vehicle without being explained as to why, e.g. felony stop.
In your example, I'd guess that the officers were just bullying you counting on either their, or your own, ignorance on the legality.
My thinking was the undercover plain clothes cops doing the bust didn't want someone recording their pictures. I've seen other incidents when there is a big bust at an intersection and I saw a kid with a cell phone pull it out and the LE told him to stop taking pictures.
My thinking was the undercover plain clothes cops doing the bust didn't want someone recording their pictures. I've seen other incidents when there is a big bust at an intersection and I saw a kid with a cell phone pull it out and the LE told him to stop taking pictures.
That’s not how it works. That’s why the ones who do undercover work aren’t there or wear masks.
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Does anyone have a link to the unedited demise of his oxygen thief? I can't find it and if I don't see it, I won't be able to sleep today!
I’m going to try to answer this as well as I can.
Most officers today really aren’t like they used to be. They have gotten kind of nerfed and job scared from the indoctrination over the years. There is an air that you can talk or sir sandwich your way out of anything. People either want to play stateside soldier (which is SUPER Gay) or play social worker (which is naive). Good old fashioned American police work very rarely involved Skinheads and Oakleys or acting like a total homo. It all boiled down to reading a scene and reading people. There are living legends to this day (but rapidly aging out) who can tell a crowd to get gone and go they do. They built a reputation of being a brutal hardass in their youth but aged in the system and now just try to get people home. They are known where they police.
The thesis is that the old guard is part of the worlds they enforce. These new people just get brainwashed and do what they are told no matter how grotesquely stupid and then think someone will save them.
American LE work is not like the Army. I openly tell people that I know who I work for and who I don’t. When I was younger, I had some Alphabet people try to rope me into something silly and retarded and dangerous. Luckily I had older people looking out for me who told them to fvck off.
There are no amounts of drugs worth a human life and using this man as a canary was unethical and cruel. They could have done their own work but were lazy and hung up on themselves.
Without benefit of hindsight, let’s say I made that stop because I was really a Boy Scout over equipment violations. But this dude had tats and shorty AR and just looked like Cartel. I would have stalled, asked him to stay in his vehicle, and walked back to mine where I have an AR and other fun tricks and called for extra cars. I wouldn’t say shot about his gun or whatever. Play dumb.
If he wants to fight, I have reaction gap, cover, and a fixed fighting position behind my vehicle.
If he takes the opportunity to just peel off, that’s perfectly 10-4 with me. I got a tag. I got cavalry coming. I am alive and able to do things. He will crash, run out of gas, or be looking down the pipes of 20 M4s one way or another.
He just wasn’t prepared that day and he was murdered as a result.
I mean it’s a spicy opinion but if you’re getting into policework to make a living then you are doing it wrong.
Like you have to on a subliminal level be somewhat sociopathic and not really care about living or dying and trade off a baseline level safety and security for the privilege of not having to stock shelves, wear a suit and tie, or keep going to college. I initially wanted to do computer programming and went to college for it. But then I realized that I didn’t want to stay in a cubicle or whatever. I just fell into it. Seriously. Computers were my life as a kid. We could only afford a super cheap PC and I farted around on DOS or I wrote code on a notebook for COBOL and waited to get to the lab to see if it worked. I had no real interest in LE or anything. Guns were cool but no more or less cool than Sega Genesis or Soundgarden.
But I get a modest but steady check and nobody riding my ass and despite my totally hating all of humanity and wishing Gozer or Darkseid was real......
I do actually get to help people and see my handiwork.
And the tragedy is that most people fall into it thinking people still respect authority and society which is probably what happened to old buddy
I think I get where you’re coming from. Thanks for the answer.
Sent from 80ms in the future
Does anyone have a link to the unedited demise of his oxygen thief? I can't find it and if I don't see it, I won't be able to sleep today!
Over toward the end.
https://youtu.be/rH6bsr61vrw
That’s not how it works. That’s why the ones who do undercover work aren’t there or wear masks.
That's correct - I don't know how it works. I saw plain clothes cops in unmarked vehicles making a bust in front of the burger joint I was at, and they took offense to me pointing my Nikon camera at what they were doing. For some reason, they didn't want pictures. I thought what I was doing was harmless. Apparently not.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-15-21, 22:49
For LE here, maybe you can educate me:
Can you legally be ordered from your vehicle without being told why you are being stopped? I am guessing you have to produce a drivers license since you are operating a vehicle on a public road, but some have argued this is a Constitutional violation. In other words, you cannot be forced to identify yourself until you have been notified as to why you are being stopped. I've watched the video of the 2LT and his stop, and that 1.5 mile roll to a lighted location certainly might have raised suspicion.
I had an incident years ago in Albuquerque where I was sitting at an outside table of a burger joint, and a plain clothes drug bust went down on the street in front of me. I had been photographing that day and had my Nikon with me. I raised the camera to my eye and used my telephoto lens to get a closer view. Two of the plain clothes Albuquerque cops came over and demanded my ID and asked why I was taking pictures. I told them I was just eating a burger and drinking a Coke. They threatened to arrest me if I didn't produce my ID. I pulled out my Drivers License and showed it to them. They made some threatening talk but eventually just walked off.
Yes. See Pennsylvania v Mimms, a decided Supreme Court case.
Yes. See Pennsylvania v Mimms, a decided Supreme Court case.
Thank You, sir. Criminal Law and Criminal Justice is out of my lane of expertise. I do know a little business and insurance law, but that's it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-15-21, 23:56
Thank You, sir. Criminal Law and Criminal Justice is out of my lane of expertise. I do know a little business and insurance law, but that's it.
You're welcome my friend. I've appreciated your insight in this thread, same as all the others you post in.
Straight Shooter
04-16-21, 07:32
Id give anything if I hadnt watched this..fvck me for doing it. Never again.
Does anyone have a link to the unedited demise of his oxygen thief? I can't find it and if I don't see it, I won't be able to sleep today!
I have been looking, and nadda so far, or would have posted it in the OP.
Does anyone have a link to the unedited demise of his oxygen thief? I can't find it and if I don't see it, I won't be able to sleep today!
I have been looking, and nadda so far, or would have posted it in the OP.
Id give anything if I hadnt watched this..fvck me for doing it. Never again.
I warned you!
I have been looking, and nadda so far, or would have posted it in the OP.
The video in post #74 looks like the OP video, but the last 1/3 of it shows where they run him down.
I have been looking, and nadda so far, or would have posted it in the OP.
The video in post #74 looks like the OP video, but the last 1/3 of it shows where they run him down.
Id give anything if I hadnt watched this..fvck me for doing it. Never again.
Gotta know thy enemy brother. Better to watch and learn via YouTube than IRL. It's next to impossible to describe how quickly the situation can go to shit and the ruthlessness of your fellow man.
Straight Shooter
04-16-21, 09:17
I warned you!
Yes sir you did...100% on me.
Straight Shooter
04-16-21, 09:19
Gotta know thy enemy brother. Better to watch and learn via YouTube than IRL. It's next to impossible to describe how quickly the situation can go to shit and the ruthlessness of your fellow man.
I agree completly.
Yes sir you did...100% on me.
I still think it's something we all need to see. The Thin Blue Line is not a metaphor.
Id give anything if I hadnt watched this..fvck me for doing it. Never again.
If you start it at 5 minutes it is better.
Straight Shooter
04-16-21, 09:54
If you start it at 5 minutes it is better.
Does it show the goblin gettin smoked? If not I aint watching.
Straight Shooter
04-16-21, 09:54
If you start it at 5 minutes it is better.
Does it show the goblin gettin smoked? If not I aint watching.
Does it show the goblin gettin smoked? If not I aint watching.
yes. They roll him up pretty good.
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Not to drift but here’s everybody’s hero playing Rosa Parks on an earlier stop.
I tell people that Situational Assholery is a myth and the Army needs to defrock this entitled POS. At least look into how he is treating or mistreating his soldiers.
This wasn’t Rambo from First Blood. This was someone thinking he was back on the block.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD_8EEhvC2E
Not to drift but here’s everybody’s hero playing Rosa Parks on an earlier stop.
I tell people that Situational Assholery is a myth and the Army needs to defrock this entitled POS. At least look into how he is treating or mistreating his soldiers.
And the LEO lost his job over it minus any due process everyone wants for themselves. Of course the LT is being viewed a hero and victim cuz the evil po po added some pepper to his day due to refusing to follow basic commands.
And the LEO lost his job over it minus any due process everyone wants for themselves. Of course the LT is being viewed a hero and victim cuz the evil po po added some pepper to his day due to refusing to follow basic commands.
Exactly. Like I said earlier, there will be unintended consequences to this phenomena.
I don’t care for Brandon Tatum but he made excellent points as to why it’s not cool to screw with the police. One guy got a 5.56 to the face on a stop and another got fired with no review, no investigation, no anything all because people saw a black guy in an Army uniform and the guy is a dud.
The officer did de-escalate. And the guy was resisting. But because of feelings an officer is out of work and I wish there would be a National strike like Robocop for six months.
Separate wheat from chaff.
john armond
04-16-21, 15:22
And the LEO lost his job over it minus any due process everyone wants for themselves. Of course the LT is being viewed a hero and victim cuz the evil po po added some pepper to his day due to refusing to follow basic commands.
Watch what happens when the young cop reaches in to unlock then open the door. Looks like the Lt pulls it closed with his elbow. Could he have been looking to set himself up for a payout?
Tatum was using the murder of
Jarret to justify bad behavior by police. Tatum also failed to mention Jarret had been set up to fail by police which would torpedo the slant he uses.
The incident happened 5 December 2020 so the firing wasn't exactly over night. Similar to SLC's Jeff Payne getting dropped immediately after film footage of him assaulting Alex Wubbels was made public several months after the incident.
Complete video without anyone commenting. Toward the end Guiterrez can clearly be heard saying they assumed Nazarrio was going to a well lit area because they had seen it before so that does bring up the question of their immediate reaction. Not sure how conflicting commands, a death threat, and confirming a person should fear exiting the vehicle counts as de-escalating.
https://youtu.be/uf5KZSADDhg
Over toward the end.
https://youtu.be/rH6bsr61vrw
In addition to murdering Jarrott and damaging the lives of his family and friends(I don't recall seeing news of the POS murdering others, but would be really surprised if this was his first) he wasted some amazing natural talent that could have benefited himself(in a good way) as well as others. Millions would give anything just to be able to walk, this jackass pulls off a stunt hands free that looks like special effects out of a super hero movie. Wasted his life and screwed up no telling how many others.
Watch what happens when the young cop reaches in to unlock then open the door. Looks like the Lt pulls it closed with his elbow. Could he have been looking to set himself up for a payout?
Probably. That’s obstructing an officer.
If you’re “so scared”, why actively resist?
Probably. That’s obstructing an officer.
If you’re “so scared”, why actively resist?
At around the 2:10 second mark, the LT says he is scared to get out of the car. The LE Officer responds: "And you should be". I am curious why the LE Officer told the driver he needed to be scared to get out of the vehicle? That one statement was a huge mistake and could cost that department a pile of money. That Black 2LT may have just won the lottery, seriously.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
04-16-21, 16:44
At around the 2:10 second mark, the LT says he is scared to get out of the car. The LE Officer responds: "And you should be". I am curious why the LE Officer told the driver he needed to be scared to get out of the vehicle? That one statement was a huge mistake and could cost that department a pile of money. That Black 2LT may have just won the lottery, seriously.
Agreed, very stupid thing to say. I'm guilty of saying dumb things in the heat of the moment, but never that dumb.
The LE officer talked himself into trouble. It comes off as purely a racist pair of cops.
The LE officer talked himself into trouble. It comes off as purely a racist pair of cops.
I thought that was the usual BS, and it may well be, but when Guiterrez was stating that they had seen others drive to a well lit area plenty of times he also added in that 80% of those were minorities.
At around the 2:10 second mark, the LT says he is scared to get out of the car. The LE Officer responds: "And you should be". I am curious why the LE Officer told the driver he needed to be scared to get out of the vehicle? That one statement was a huge mistake and could cost that department a pile of money. That Black 2LT may have just won the lottery, seriously.
I take that sincerely as him going into “Dad mode”.
Do some perspective: I don’t know the aggro officer’s background but he said he was a vet too. I’m thinking he was older and not used to a Joe willfully disobeying a lawful command. I highly doubt that he would pull that shit on an MP. And I find that to be less of an actual threat and more of a frustration.
I am not looking at his words at all. I’m looking at actions. I’m seeing a man holster up and go to progressively non-lethal means of control while the younger officer is put near pleading with Nazario to obey and comply.
All else being equal and if shit is done fairly without the feelings getting involved; there should be no payday.
Nazario escalated that one and was resisting. Had he obeyed he would have gotten a ticket at most. But being argumentative is always a bad play.
I mean you were in the officer’s corps. If you had a LT who was showing his ass off post, I doubt you would be happy with him.
I find it curious that he thought it was cool to mess with local PD but wouldn’t do this to MPs or DOD police. They can pull over a soldier and search him for absolutely no reason. CID too. And they know this but now it’s cool for whatever reason to spin up the police into going to Defcon 2 only to play coy and innocent and be Rosa Parks at the last minute.
You’re kind of moving the goal posts for police here. They’re supposed to be social workers, Delta Operators, Trauma Medics, Lawyers, and not feel fear or anxiety for modest income.
Naw, that’s not right. Obey commands until you can be ruled out as a threat and either go to court or pay your ticket.
Kinda surprising. I for one cannot wait for late 70s/early 80s urban blight and crime waves to come back with a hard on.
I’m not the ones with a family. You all are.
And if you think the mob won’t come to your house.....they will.
Preserve order NOW, Gentlemen. Because it will be a lot of hard work to reclaim it later.
I have never ever asked a police officer why they stopped me. Miraculously, that point usually comes up in the following discussion with the officer.
I have been pulled over for obvious "fishing" stops, was reasonably polite and co-operative and on my way in less than 5 minutes. It happens when you drive a POS car at 2 a.m.
I have also been stopped and cut huge breaks (like street racing turned into a "10 mph over" speeding ticket) by officers.
The LT could have been on his way in minutes. Thats not the way he wanted it - his smirk when he turned on his camera made that obvious.
Andy
I have never ever asked a police officer why they stopped me. Miraculously, that point usually comes up in the following discussion with the officer.
I have been pulled over for obvious "fishing" stops, was reasonably polite and co-operative and on my way in less than 5 minutes. It happens when you drive a POS car at 2 a.m.
I have also been stopped and cut huge breaks (like street racing turned into a "10 mph over" speeding ticket) by officers.
The LT could have been on his way in minutes. Thats not the way he wanted it - his smirk when he turned on his camera made that obvious.
Andy
They started out by drawing on him, then later told him they were used to people doing the exact same thing he did for the exact same reason he claimed. If they are getting all amped up and doing that at every stop that really needs to end cause court won't call back the likely ND.
I have never ever asked a police officer why they stopped me. Miraculously, that point usually comes up in the following discussion with the officer.
I have been pulled over for obvious "fishing" stops, was reasonably polite and co-operative and on my way in less than 5 minutes. It happens when you drive a POS car at 2 a.m.
I have also been stopped and cut huge breaks (like street racing turned into a "10 mph over" speeding ticket) by officers.
The LT could have been on his way in minutes. Thats not the way he wanted it - his smirk when he turned on his camera made that obvious.
Andy
They started out by drawing on him, then later told him they were used to people doing the exact same thing he did for the exact same reason he claimed. If they are getting all amped up and doing that at every stop that really needs to end cause court won't call back the likely ND.
I take that sincerely as him going into “Dad mode”.
Do some perspective: I don’t know the aggro officer’s background but he said he was a vet too. I’m thinking he was older and not used to a Joe willfully disobeying a lawful command. I highly doubt that he would pull that shit on an MP. And I find that to be less of an actual threat and more of a frustration.
I am not looking at his words at all. I’m looking at actions. I’m seeing a man holster up and go to progressively non-lethal means of control while the younger officer is put near pleading with Nazario to obey and comply.
All else being equal and if shit is done fairly without the feelings getting involved; there should be no payday.
Nazario escalated that one and was resisting. Had he obeyed he would have gotten a ticket at most. But being argumentative is always a bad play.
I mean you were in the officer’s corps. If you had a LT who was showing his ass off post, I doubt you would be happy with him.
I find it curious that he thought it was cool to mess with local PD but wouldn’t do this to MPs or DOD police. They can pull over a soldier and search him for absolutely no reason. CID too. And they know this but now it’s cool for whatever reason to spin up the police into going to Defcon 2 only to play coy and innocent and be Rosa Parks at the last minute.
You’re kind of moving the goal posts for police here. They’re supposed to be social workers, Delta Operators, Trauma Medics, Lawyers, and not feel fear or anxiety for modest income.
Naw, that’s not right. Obey commands until you can be ruled out as a threat and either go to court or pay your ticket.
Kinda surprising. I for one cannot wait for late 70s/early 80s urban blight and crime waves to come back with a hard on.
I’m not the ones with a family. You all are.
And if you think the mob won’t come to your house.....they will.
Preserve order NOW, Gentlemen. Because it will be a lot of hard work to reclaim it later.
As a Field Grade Officer before I retired, I was the XO at the Regimental level with around 1200 soldiers and pilots under my command. Being on-base, we were always mindful of the behavior of any soldier interacting with the civilian world off-base, from criminal behavior to stupid things like bad debt and unpaid bills or traffic tickets. Most of the time it was handled at the Lieutenant or Captain level, but on occasion I'd get a real problem to deal with, including one chronic alcoholic as I remember.
Generally, the military will close ranks and support a soldier who we think is getting a raw deal. As his commander, I probably would have asked Nazario why he felt the need to keep driving, instead of just pulling over to the safest location he could find right away. Going an extra mile really makes you look suspicious as though you're trying to hide something, or looking for a way to evade. It was a bone head move. He screwed up and I would have told him so. Any interaction with local LE needs to be courteous and professional, even more so when in uniform. I've always found that a congenial and positive form of communication during a traffic stop really lightens the tone of that event, and many times results in a positive outcome for me (no citation).
Now whether Officer Pepper Spray was operating in "Dad mode" or not, in this time in our history, what you say can go a long way to hanging yourself. Most Dads aren't sporting a sidearm and spray irritant when counseling their recalcitrant youngsters, even one @ 22 years of age. Of the two officers I saw in the video, Officer Pepper Spray was amped up, and his partner seemed a little more calm. I still think that comment indicating the Army 2LT had something to be afraid of was one of those hang-yourself-comments that took the event to an even lower level. Maybe I'm just too congenial and I would have attempted a more friendly interaction and some comments about the 2LT's military service, etc. Of course being too congenial in LE now days can leave you dead in a ditch along the highway. That's why I never went into LE I guess. The ROE as an Army attack helicopter pilot were more suited to my personality.
At around the 2:10 second mark, the LT says he is scared to get out of the car. The LE Officer responds: "And you should be". I am curious why the LE Officer told the driver he needed to be scared to get out of the vehicle? That one statement was a huge mistake and could cost that department a pile of money. That Black 2LT may have just won the lottery, seriously.
That was also after making the threat to execute him and alternating keep hands out the window with commands requiring reaching hands back inside the vehicle violating the keep hands out. There was also the under arrest statement quickly replaced with being detained.
The army supports him and is “very proud” of him.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/04/12/im-very-proud-of-him-sergeant-major-of-army-reacts-black-lieutenants-traffic-stop.html
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I dunno. I don’t get amped up so much because I’ve already been feloniously assaulted more than a few times. But I understand why people do. They have something waiting for them. Someone. A life. A future. Good things.
My best days are behind me. And I say that with a tone of Anti-Nihilism. You gotta remember. I’m a Zen Master.
Like the Cherry on the branch between two tigers and a fall.
But I understand why people get scared or nervous. They still fear death. There probably isn’t an afterlife. Or a God. Or if there is, He doesn’t care or has given up.
But part of me wants more than anything to see my loved ones again. There’s not much on this Earth for me. I don’t seek it but it doesn’t scare me.
But let’s pretend you don’t want to die, or get hurt, and someone leads you on for nigh two miles and then starts being flippant. You do not know what you have, and you aren’t sure this is going well.
It’s okay to slip up in your anger and fear with words as long as you control your actions.
You’re defending a person who should be a leader of someone else’s 18 year old where he can effectively order him to his death but is being a jackass over an improper tag.
That’s fvcking ducky with me.
Where’s my fiddle. Rome burning will keep me warm
Watch what happens when the young cop reaches in to unlock then open the door. Looks like the Lt pulls it closed with his elbow. Could he have been looking to set himself up for a payout?
He's filed a lawsuit, so yah. Dude had a plan I suspect.
I dunno. I don’t get amped up so much because I’ve already been feloniously assaulted more than a few times. But I understand why people do. They have something waiting for them. Someone. A life. A future. Good things.
My best days are behind me. And I say that with a tone of Anti-Nihilism. You gotta remember. I’m a Zen Master.
Like the Cherry on the branch between two tigers and a fall.
But I understand why people get scared or nervous. They still fear death. There probably isn’t an afterlife. Or a God. Or if there is, He doesn’t care or has given up.
But part of me wants more than anything to see my loved ones again. There’s not much on this Earth for me. I don’t seek it but it doesn’t scare me.
But let’s pretend you don’t want to die, or get hurt, and someone leads you on for nigh two miles and then starts being flippant. You do not know what you have, and you aren’t sure this is going well.
It’s okay to slip up in your anger and fear with words as long as you control your actions.
You’re defending a person who should be a leader of someone else’s 18 year old where he can effectively order him to his death but is being a jackass over an improper tag.
That’s fvcking ducky with me.
Where’s my fiddle. Rome burning will keep me warm
I'm not defending 2LT Caron Nazario. As I said before, I would have told him he made a mistake and should have pulled over immediately at the best location he could find along the road - not drive over a mile with your flashers on. He made the whole situation worse.
Regarding him leading other 18 year olds, the first thing I noticed was no Air Assault patch, no Jump School patch and no combat unit patch. In fact he is part of a medical unit, possibly a male nurse, or working towards his Medical Doctor Degree, but I am guessing something less considering his rank. The only 18 year olds he is leading are some Specialists giving injections and changing bags of saline solution.
I'm no Zen Master, just a 61 year old who left rural New Mexico to get a free college education from the Army in exchange for a part of my life. Now I am back to that earlier, rural life, away from a lot of the B.S. in the modern world.
Like I mentioned earlier, feel free to go pull up a map of Windsor, VA.
There is 1 Food Lion where the younger officer hit the lights and as near as I can tell only 1 BP. Tell it you want to drive from one to the other and it will show the track originating in the Food Lion parking lot(which is set back from 460 a bit) to the BP which is right off of 460 and it lists the total trip as 1.1 miles, not 1.5 or even more. Officer Guiterrez is apparently has a tendency to exaggerate as evidenced by that and claiming Nazarrio was hitting both of them in the written report.
I'm not defending 2LT Caron Nazario. As I said before, I would have told him he made a mistake and should have pulled over immediately at the best location he could find along the road - not drive over a mile with your flashers on. He made the whole situation worse.
Regarding him leading other 18 year olds, the first thing I noticed was no Air Assault patch, no Jump School patch and no combat unit patch. In fact he is part of a medical unit, possibly a male nurse, or working towards his Medical Doctor Degree, but I am guessing something less considering his rank. The only 18 year olds he is leading are some Specialists giving injections and changing bags of saline solution.
I'm no Zen Master, just a 61 year old who left rural New Mexico to get a free college education from the Army in exchange for a part of my life. Now I am back to that earlier, rural life, away from a lot of the B.S. in the modern world.
Fair enough. He checks peckers and hands out Motrin. Fitting. I don’t know what his army patches meant.
I’m not really a Zen Master. I call myself one because it gives me a semblance of agency over my bitterness and dysthymic pessimism.
You know... I want to go back to the farm so bad.
I don’t think I will get to though.
Like I mentioned earlier, feel free to go pull up a map of Windsor, VA.
There is 1 Food Lion where the younger officer hit the lights and as near as I can tell only 1 BP. Tell it you want to drive from one to the other and it will show the track originating in the Food Lion parking lot(which is set back from 460 a bit) to the BP which is right off of 460 and it lists the total trip as 1.1 miles, not 1.5 or even more. Officer Guiterrez is apparently has a tendency to exaggerate as evidenced by that and claiming Nazarrio was hitting both of them in the written report.
STOP THE PRESSES! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
.4 miles difference is God damn walking talking smoking gun.
Good Job, Junior Detective. You know what time it is.....
DO IT ROCKAPELLA!
https://i.imgur.com/6WFuWi2g.jpg
STOP THE PRESSES! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
.4 miles difference is God damn walking talking smoking gun.
Good Job, Junior Detective. You know what time it is.....
DO IT ROCKAPELLA!
https://i.imgur.com/6WFuWi2g.jpg
Thanks, you had it up to 2 miles and I have seen further claims.
He's filed a lawsuit, so yah. Dude had a plan I suspect.
Apparently his plan didn't involve a closer to guaranteed payout by going after the deep pocket of the heavily used tax payer.
Just a little perspective regarding 2LT Caron Nazario. He graduated from VA. State in 2016 and most likely commissioned a 2LT the same month of his graduation via that school's ROTC program. That's 5 years in an O1 pay grade. He's 27 years old. I was promoted 1LT at age 23 and CPT 4 months short of my 26th birthday. Then it's a longer haul before Major. This kid is behind the 8 Ball when it comes to advancement in the Army, so maybe his career isn't going so well? He has probably been in the zone for promotion at least twice and has not made the pay grade increase. His ROTC commission will require a 6 year obligation and he may be at the end of that commitment. It's possible that a $1 million dollar lawsuit would make up for not making the cut in the Army? Just my professional opinion.
Just a little perspective regarding 2LT Caron Nazario. He graduated from VA. State in 2016 and most likely commissioned a 2LT the same month of his graduation via that school's ROTC program. That's 5 years in an O1 pay grade. He's 27 years old. I was promoted 1LT at age 23 and CPT 4 months short of my 26th birthday. Then it's a longer haul before Major. This kid is behind the 8 Ball when it comes to advancement in the Army, so maybe his career isn't going so well? He has probably been in the zone for promotion at least twice and has not made the pay grade increase. His ROTC commission will require a 6 year obligation and he may be at the end of that commitment. It's possible that a $1 million dollar lawsuit would make up for not making the cut in the Army? Just my professional opinion.
I'm with you. 5 years TIG as an 0-1. That means he's not worth having but he's not worth kicking out.
Just a little perspective regarding 2LT Caron Nazario. He graduated from VA. State in 2016 and most likely commissioned a 2LT the same month of his graduation via that school's ROTC program. That's 5 years in an O1 pay grade. He's 27 years old. I was promoted 1LT at age 23 and CPT 4 months short of my 26th birthday. Then it's a longer haul before Major. This kid is behind the 8 Ball when it comes to advancement in the Army, so maybe his career isn't going so well? He has probably been in the zone for promotion at least twice and has not made the pay grade increase. His ROTC commission will require a 6 year obligation and he may be at the end of that commitment. It's possible that a $1 million dollar lawsuit would make up for not making the cut in the Army? Just my professional opinion.
That explains quite a bit. Even his entitlement and his chip on shoulder.
I mean he’s likely seen his peers rank up and be worth something while he’s at the bottom.
He certainly seems argumentative enough.
Also why he seems to wear his uniform everywhere.
Your professional opinion is appreciated, sir
ChattanoogaPhil
04-17-21, 08:38
The Lt's lack of facial expression, slow speech and inability to follow even the simplest instruction had me wondering if the Army had a special needs unit.
Just a little perspective regarding 2LT Caron Nazario. He graduated from VA. State in 2016 and most likely commissioned a 2LT the same month of his graduation via that school's ROTC program. That's 5 years in an O1 pay grade. He's 27 years old. I was promoted 1LT at age 23 and CPT 4 months short of my 26th birthday.
My Infantry CPT son is is one or two year groups ahead of this 2LT, so I'm pretty familiar with the criteria and experience across his experiance, USMA classmates, and buds.
In this time frame promotion from 2LT to 1LT is pretty much automatic and I want to say is typically about 24 months after commissioning. (There is an 18 mth time in grade requirement).
The way the LT's joke about it, the requirements are very strict, you have to have a pulse. The way it was explained to me is unless you are identified as non promotable for some reason, 2LT to 1LT is pretty much rubber stamp. You do have to be on active status, which rules out absent without leave, Courtmartial, civvy criminal actions, substance abuse programs, whatever. You could also have a major GOMAR. It could also be for a APFT non-compliance, but they will normally work you into compliance within 6 months and revisit.
Note that ROTC can have different active duty start. Which can impact their promotion. He could have graduated from college in 2016 but had a late active duty start.
Promotion to Captain has key development requirements in addition to education (primary of which is the serving command of a platoon or similar depending on branch). But promotion to 1LT does not typically have a key development reqquirement, only completion of BOLC. Which also could have been this guy's issue.
In any case this guy was seriously off track even 3 years ago.
Year group 2016 are typically already Captains now working on staff and waiting on command queue to take company command.
As to merit badges, it's not that uncommon for ROTC grads not to have many / any lately. If you're going to college full-time there is a chance to get one, maybe two but competition's pretty intense. You normally have to be top 50 % to top third order of merit to get a shot at one pre-commission. USMA it's a bit easier as AASLT is taught nearby and they also get a pretty good amount of slots for airborne. Others like EOD, combat diver, etc are much much harder to get.
Some branches you have pretty good chances of getting classes prior to or immediately after BOLC. But I don't think medical does. IN probably has the best chance, my son has four at this point. (Six if you include RSLC & BLC, which do not have badges). Some of that was order of merit related, some of that branch/unit, some because he worked to get the classes during dead time at BOLC and CCC, etc.
But knowing a bunch of recent LTs and having had a son as one, I can guarantee you that any kind of negative interaction with the police is of serious concern and would be subject of discussion with their command chain. To an extent most of us in the civilian world would find objectionable. Especially around any of the training posts.
None of the young officers I know/knew would cop this kind of attitude with a policeman even as butter bars. But in a pool of several thousand 2LT's each year there's going to be some bad apples and some bad situations. I'm aware of 2 in my son's year group that have died unattended due to substance issues. (One was a squadmate as a plebe at USMA)
This guy had something else going on... He was either working an angle for a payout, was guilty of something, or had a giant chip on his shoulder. Or all of the above.
Averageman
04-17-21, 10:18
I'm not defending 2LT Caron Nazario. As I said before, I would have told him he made a mistake and should have pulled over immediately at the best location he could find along the road - not drive over a mile with your flashers on. He made the whole situation worse.
Regarding him leading other 18 year olds, the first thing I noticed was no Air Assault patch, no Jump School patch and no combat unit patch. In fact he is part of a medical unit, possibly a male nurse, or working towards his Medical Doctor Degree, but I am guessing something less considering his rank. The only 18 year olds he is leading are some Specialists giving injections and changing bags of saline solution.
I'm no Zen Master, just a 61 year old who left rural New Mexico to get a free college education from the Army in exchange for a part of my life. Now I am back to that earlier, rural life, away from a lot of the B.S. in the modern world.
Honestly, I would like to know what the senior Enlisted might have to say in a case like this..
You talk about time in grade and his promotions all you like, but there is likely a reason for all of that. If you work for an asshole, you're likely to be carrying his day to day water for him.
That's what is important to note.
If he was a 2LT held back from promotion to 1LT he probably never was given a platoon. (If medical does such a thing).
I'm pretty sure this mess didn't occur because he was a butter bar... he's still a butter bar because of the factors that likely got him into this mess
Video from another angle of the capturing and shoot out with the killer. Officer was hit and got back into the fight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ8roOLYr78
Bystander's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9BcjsnTikE
Can't say enough about how that LEO conducted himself! Don't really know what to say.
Video from another angle of the capturing and shoot out with the killer. Officer was hit and got back into the fight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ8roOLYr78
Bystander's video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9BcjsnTikE
Well damn! That bodycam footage is intense. I suspect that shooter has had formal training. LEO takes a rnd, gets up, drives right back into the fight, does a reload, that's a man who has been training and training and it obvious paid off. I thought maybe he was gonna attempt a shot under the car once on the ground, but the goblin was already moving around his truck.
That speed reload would have made an IPSC shooter envy. Advance on the target and take him out.
titsonritz
04-30-21, 16:18
Drone footage...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcqNo82SaLE
Great view from the drone.
Look at the khaki shirted officer that was the first to come around the hood of the white truck, he put his gun on the hood around the 2:15 mark, shuffled around on his feet, reacquire his gun from the hood, reloaded it and moved in with the other officers. What was that dance all about? He was the one that dragged the dead bad guy away from the truck.
titsonritz
04-30-21, 18:10
Great view from the drone.
Look at the khaki shirted officer that was the first to come around the hood of the white truck, he put his gun on the hood around the 2:15 mark, shuffled around on his feet, reacquire his gun from the hood, reloaded it and moved in with the other officers. What was that dance all about? He was the one that dragged the dead bad guy away from the truck.
Yeah he was looking lost, IMO.
Well damn! That bodycam footage is intense. I suspect that shooter has had formal training. LEO takes a rnd, gets up, drives right back into the fight, does a reload, that's a man who has been training and training and it obvious paid off. I thought maybe he was gonna attempt a shot under the car once on the ground, but the goblin was already moving around his truck.
+1 to all that. Wouldn't want to wish it on anyone, but maybe if this guy had made first contact rather than Jarrott it might have gone differently.
The whole encounter, from the driving to the engagement, was insane, but that reload was a thing of beauty. Super-cop.
That speed reload would have made an IPSC shooter envy. Advance on the target and take him out.
Bad guy was out the car when it was still sliding and going after the cop ! That is insane and IMHO kinda makes me wonder was that training or just sheer insanity or ? But almost like he understood what it was going to take
For sure like others reload pushing bad after being shot etc. freaking top notch cop !
I don't like snuff films, but this is a feel-good video for me. You murder an officer, you should reap the whirlwind.
Andy
Rifleman_04
05-01-21, 18:19
He said “I love you girls” right before he unbuckled his seatbelt and PIT the guy.
That sucker punched me right in the feels.
vicious_cb
05-01-21, 19:27
So where were the DHS "commandos" dressed like PMCs in the fight? First to dress up and bait Officer Jarrott and last to come to the fight Im guessing.
I don't like snuff films, but this is a feel-good video for me. You murder an officer, you should reap the whirlwind.
Andy
Not even. Damage was already done that point. The perp knew he was a dead man walking, even if he got away his cartel buddies would have disappeared him because of the heat. He wanted to go out in blaze of gunfire. He got what he wanted, nothing feel good about that.
He said “I love you girls” right before he unbuckled his seatbelt and PIT the guy.
That sucker punched me right in the feels.
Missed that the first time. This might be the most "head in the game" thing I've ever seen. Even most hardcore / badass ninja seal dudes I've known who got shot took the standard 5 second "F'ing hell this guy just shot me" moment to contemplate existence before getting back in the game.
That was hard to watch. Somehow i hadn't seen it before.
SteyrAUG is right (isn't he always?) that LEO can't be totally on edge every second. Thinking back, last time I was stopped for expired inspection sticker, I could have done some serious stuff to the officer that stopped me. It only takes half a second. I suppose being a white guy in a suit, he didn't expect trouble. But you never know.
I catch myself doing that. When I go to the bank, I unconsciously assess threats based on how people are dressed. Guy in a suit, I hardly notice. But how do I know he's not a jugger?
How did that ever happen? I mean, if the Feds ask any HPD or Harris County Sheriff I know to stop somebody, they're not going to let the guy twitch once they see an AR with a sling. Here Officer didn't even have his hand on his pistol when Bad Guy exits the truck with the rifle.
After all that I can't blame Firefly for his world view.
If I was LEO I'd want to approach every encounter with my front sight on their chest, taking up trigger slack . . .
SteyrAUG is right (isn't he always?) that LEO can't be totally on edge every second. Thinking back, last time I was stopped for expired inspection sticker, I could have done some serious stuff to the officer that stopped me. It only takes half a second. I suppose being a white guy in a suit, he didn't expect trouble. But you never know.
Every cop who has been on the job for more than a couple of years is alive simply because someone they contacted, decided not to kill them that day. Everyone we meet could kill us until proven otherwise, leads to some pretty fvcked up trust issues.
I'll add this in to my post too, as a street level cop don't trust a Fed unless they are known to you personally. They will gladly use then dump you.
Every cop who has been on the job for more than a couple of years is alive simply because someone they contacted, decided not to kill them that day. Everyone we meet could kill us until proven otherwise, leads to some pretty fvcked up trust issues.
I really do think "police interaction 101" should be an actual middle school required course. Some will say you'll just train bad people to conceal their intentions, but bad people are already pretty well versed as the video in the OP showed. They can go from zero to cop taking rounds in the blink of an eye with zero remorse or hesitation. Ordinary people on the other hand constantly do dumb shit that is scary as F to your average LEO without even considering why it would be scary. I've seen people shove guys way into dark orange for no better reason than "shit...I got weed...I forgot."
I really do think "police interaction 101" should be an actual middle school required course. Some will say you'll just train bad people to conceal their intentions, but bad people are already pretty well versed as the video in the OP showed. They can go from zero to cop taking rounds in the blink of an eye with zero remorse or hesitation. Ordinary people on the other hand constantly do dumb shit that is scary as F to your average LEO without even considering why it would be scary. I've seen people shove guys way into dark orange for no better reason than "shit...I got weed...I forgot."
Or my personal favorite "I thought I had a warrant, that's why I fought" as the ambulance is rolling up for transport. Turns out, dude didn't have a warrant but came out of the car like a spider monkey on a stop.
I can still pinpoint my first "holy shit I should have died" moment, but I only have 5 years on.
Every cop who has been on the job for more than a couple of years is alive simply because someone they contacted, decided not to kill them that day. Everyone we meet could kill us until proven otherwise, leads to some pretty fvcked up trust issues.
I'll add this in to my post too, as a street level cop don't trust a Fed unless they are known to you personally. They will gladly use then dump you.
Even some of the Feds I know, cringe at ATF and HSI "cooperation" with local LE out west...
I really do think "police interaction 101" should be an actual middle school required course. Some will say you'll just train bad people to conceal their intentions, but bad people are already pretty well versed as the video in the OP showed. They can go from zero to cop taking rounds in the blink of an eye with zero remorse or hesitation. Ordinary people on the other hand constantly do dumb shit that is scary as F to your average LEO without even considering why it would be scary. I've seen people shove guys way into dark orange for no better reason than "shit...I got weed...I forgot."
And also start repealing victimless crime laws that are the impetus for a large percentage of the interactions. Negative outcomes are not a unidirectional issue.
https://abc13.com/harding-street-raid-botched-hpd/5885310/
joedirt199
05-03-21, 12:37
I love how people claim drugs have no victims. Never knew a functioning drug addict that went to work to feed their addiction. Women don't pay money for drugs, they pay with sex and their unexpected pregnancies are the result. Kid at our daycare found her dad dead from an overdose and mom was no where to be found since she was out doping too. Cutest little girl being raised by her grandparents. I have kicked people out of homes where they care more about the bullshit property they acquired than they do about their kids having a clean bed to sleep on or clean clothes to wear. Sorry but legal drugs do not make a better working class individual. If they can't afford it on their hard work, they will work harder to acquire it by illegal means.
I love how people claim drugs have no victims. Never knew a functioning drug addict that went to work to feed their addiction. Women don't pay money for drugs, they pay with sex and their unexpected pregnancies are the result. Kid at our daycare found her dad dead from an overdose and mom was no where to be found since she was out doping too. Cutest little girl being raised by her grandparents. I have kicked people out of homes where they care more about the bullshit property they acquired than they do about their kids having a clean bed to sleep on or clean clothes to wear. Sorry but legal drugs do not make a better working class individual. If they can't afford it on their hard work, they will work harder to acquire it by illegal means.
Everything under the sun can have a deleterious effect on others. What else would you like to criminalize? Firearms laws are another area of victimless crime of course.
As far as drugs go, alcohol was, is, and always will be damaging to society. That being said, whatever reduction in alcohol use that occurred during prohibition was more than compensated for by the crime that boomed from making it illegal.
Not saying it can't happen, but I don't recall seeing Bud and Miller salesman/delivery drivers getting in shootouts with each other or police over sales.
Everything under the sun can have a deleterious effect on others. What else would you like to criminalize? Firearms laws are another area of victimless crime of course.
As far as drugs go, alcohol was, is, and always will be damaging to society. That being said, whatever reduction in alcohol use that occurred during prohibition was more than compensated for by the crime that boomed from making it illegal.
Not saying it can't happen, but I don't recall seeing Bud and Miller salesman/delivery drivers getting in shootouts with each other or police over sales.
Anyone at this point who thinks the war on drugs was not lost a long time ago by any metric and or prohibition is a net benefit to society at this point, is not paying attention. I don't personally dwell on the term "victimless" crime. There's always potential victims, the issue is always what's the most effective route to minimize it while not ignoring Const Rights and Individual Liberties in the process. I was definitely the "victim" of alcoholics growing up, and I know that sure as hell would not improve with making it illegal. You can't have more people dying by a wide margin from legal drugs than all illegal drugs combined, then expect anyone to not find see the hypocrisy and ignore the laws for their drug(s) of choice and so forth.
titsonritz
05-03-21, 14:43
I really do think "police interaction 101" should be an actual middle school required course. Some will say you'll just train bad people to conceal their intentions, but bad people are already pretty well versed as the video in the OP showed. They can go from zero to cop taking rounds in the blink of an eye with zero remorse or hesitation. Ordinary people on the other hand constantly do dumb shit that is scary as F to your average LEO without even considering why it would be scary. I've seen people shove guys way into dark orange for no better reason than "shit...I got weed...I forgot."
It's not a difficult concept.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
joedirt199
05-03-21, 15:02
Funny thing is, Chris Rock would never make that video in today's society bit it was good to go over 20 years ago. All rings true still.
titsonritz
05-03-21, 16:06
Funny thing is, Chris Rock would never make that video in today's society bit it was good to go over 20 years ago. All rings true still.
I bet Chappelle would.
That was fkng horrifying. The nightmare that every cop must fear strapping it on every day. Not paid enough for this open border fkng job.
He smelled a rat almost in time, something made the hair stand up when he asked about a weapon. Bullshit with completely 100% open borders.
PB
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