Smith & Wesson Politics

[parishioner]

Every now and then when I browse through forums I sometimes read a post that refers to Smith and Wesson's politics. It always says something along the lines of "I love their guns but not their politics". I have tried to search the internet to find out what they are talking about but I cant seem to pull anything up. Does anyone here know what they could be talking about. This could be a bunch of BS but thats what Im trying to find out. Thanks.

[Gentoo]

Someone with more knowledge than me will chime in and flesh this out, but basically, S&W lost alot of face when it caved in and put the hated internal lock on their guns. There were a few other things too, but the lock (AKA Hillary Hole) is the big thing.

Now, you have 2 groups of debate about the lock - one camp says 'whats the big deal, just don't use it' the other camp says 'its just one more point of failure'. There is also a third faction that hates the lock just on principle.

[Gutshot John]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

No seriously, S&W used to be owned by Walther, and under that ownership made a deal with the Clinton administration to adopt anti-gunner restrictions in order to avoid federal lawsuits and get a lucrative government contract. Their actions caused outrage in the gun community.

Since that time, S&W has changed ownership and totally repudiated the agreement and any compromise. Apparently some gun owners still don't know this or refuse to let it go.

There is no current "politics" that anyone could object to. It's a moot point.

[parishioner]

Well I guess thats that. Thanks for the run down!

[ToddG]

Minor points: Smith was owned by Tompkins PLC, which also owned Walther. Walther was never the parent company.

The company went public in '01 (the same year AZ-based Saf-T-Hammer bought S&W from Tompkins) and has been under US management ever since.

[parishioner]

Thats good to hear. The more american the better.

[TimBob]

And luckily, you can get their firearms without the internal lock. My M&P 40 has no internal lock or magazine disconnect safety, it's always ready to go boom.

[Jerm]

I was under the impression it was all water under the bridge myself,then i came across this...

http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html


The Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. is calling for all supporters of the Second Amendment to vote with their pocket books, and refuse to purchase any products from Smith & Wesson. This boycott is the only viable course of action against a corporate management which has agreed with the Clinton administration to impose regulations on the American people which they could not get from our elected representatives. Smith & Wesson has agreed to impose on its dealers requirements that they not sell guns at gun shows when private sales occur without a background check, even though such sales would otherwise be lawful. Further, each sale of Smith & Wesson firearms must include a written certification that the purchaser has obtained training in the safe handling and storage of firearms.

A more important issue is that guns cannot be transferred as allowed under the Brady Law if the background check is not completed in the legally allowed time. One must wait for the background check to be complete, even if it is dragged out for months. Remember how the National Instant Check System was down for days on the weekend of the so called "Million Mom March?"

The sale of Smith & Wesson to a US based company is irrelevant to the issue. Neither the old company (Tompkins), nor the new company (then called Saf-T-Hammer), have done anything to void the March 17, 2000 agreement. At the February 2002 S. H. O. T. Show in Las Vegas, then Smith & Wesson President, Bob Scott, admitted to me and another activist, that the agreement is still in place, and if we get a new US President, it could immediately be enforced. Please look at the agreement to remind yourself as to how egregious is at:

http://www.hud.gov/library/bookshelf18/pressrel/gunagree.html

The agreement contains nearly all of the items on the gun haters wish list. Please look at the web page. If it doesn't make you angry, you are not a supporter of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. On principle, we oppose those who would ban Smith & Wesson's new gun, or any other gun. However, we hope no supporter of our gun rights will support Smith & Wesson by purchasing it, or any other of their guns, until they void the HUD agreement.

Let's be clear; Smith & Wesson cannot be allowed to hide behind the notion that we are better off that it is owned by a US company, than an UK company. So far, both companies are exactly the same; they both are supportive of the agreement they made with Clinton's HUD.


Last update as of 2002?...HUD link is gone btw.

Apparently (based on the bold) they feel that the problem still exists.

Cant say it'll stop me from picking up another M&P or two,but it did give me pause.

VCDL being unreasonable here?

I recently signed up with them(along with several other pro-gun groups) after hearing some good things

I apologize if im perpetuating something thats been done to death(before i began frequenting gun boards perhaps).

[NCPatrolAR]

Let VCDL boycott Smith. Just means that many more Smith pistols for me.

[variablebinary]

The constant demand for boycotts against American arms makers is old already

A company really really really has to be part of a political cause or process which will, without question, undermine the 2nd for me to retract my business. These days, if John Moses Browning waved to Hillary Clinton in a crowded mall, people would be crying for his head and a boycott. It's that bad/pathetic

Yeah yeah yeah, I know about S&W and Ruger, but the people that drove that movement are now gone.

[John_Wayne777]

I was under the impression it was all water under the bridge myself,then i came across this...

http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html


I love the VCDL. It's a fantastic organization and I'm proud to be a member....

But the VCDL position on this one is about two bong-hits over the line.

As far as I am concerned it IS all water under the bridge and I've been happily buying S&W products ever since they went under new management. Currently I own more products from S&W than I do from anyone else, and I have 4 more S&W purchases in the works.

[ToddG]

Last update as of 2002?

There's your clue right there. I can show you a web page from 2000 that says George Bush is going to be the next President. :cool:

In my experience, too many pro-2A groups use this kind of paranoia-inciting stuff to bolster their ranks and their war chests. If you're now a VCDL member, how about getting in touch with management and letting them know their website is spouting false propaganda that serves no purpose other than making it easier for the real enemy to divide and conquer us all?

[g5m]

I have seen several posts about lock failure. Meaning, while shooting, the lock became engaged and thus prevented the pistol from firing.
Not a good thing.

[NCPatrolAR]

I have seen several posts about lock failure. Meaning, while shooting, the lock became engaged and thus prevented the pistol from firing.
Not a good thing.

I've heard similar accounts. It is always with a revolver. It does look like Smith is starting to release a few more revolvers without an internal lock now.

[Jerm]

I love the VCDL. It's a fantastic organization and I'm proud to be a member....

But the VCDL position on this one is about two bong-hits over the line.

As far as I am concerned it IS all water under the bridge and I've been happily buying S&W products ever since they went under new management. Currently I own more products from S&W than I do from anyone else, and I have 4 more S&W purchases in the works.

Good to hear.

I know they seem to be pretty effective for a relatively small organization.They've definately made some noise that i liked the sound of,on at least a few occasions.

This is the first/only item i've come across that i thought was questionable.

Well...im not an OC guy,but to each their own(with my support).



how about getting in touch with management and letting them know their website is spouting false propaganda that serves no purpose other than making it easier for the real enemy to divide and conquer us all?

Might just do that...although perhaps with a slightly less confrontational tone(for starters anyway).:)

I have been meaning to write and ask for a little more clarification.Figured i'd just get a rehash of whats already on their site though.

Apparently their efforts in this case havent been very effective.

Seems to alienate them more than S&W.