View Full Version : Student loan debt and the older generation
Doesn't get quite as much publicity as student loan issues with younger folks, but it seems to be a substantial problem. Looks like a lot of these people will die still owing a lot of money for these debts. Getting your Social Security benefits garnished would be the icing on the cake, I guess. Of course, there's the opposing viewpoint of "You took out these loans willingly. So you can't really complain too much".
"Over 8 million borrowers over age 50 hold 22% of the federal student-debt load, or $336.1 billion.
Insider spoke with borrowers with debt burdens they fear won't be paid in their lifetimes.
One borrower started with $79,000 in debt, paid $175,000, but still has a balance of over $200,000."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/older-people-giving-hope-paying-123000078.html
Averageman
05-09-21, 13:11
I would submit to you that from what I have seen a lot of folks have no clue when they take this money, that it has to be repaid.
Yeah, I know, that's pretty stupid, but that is essentially the long and short of it. I have a cousin who is buried in student debt, she's going to be paying it off forever.
I guess those Spring break trips to St Pete's with her Sorority Sisters were fun at the time, but had she just stayed home and worked, ya know?
When I mentioned that I had gotten two degree's while serving in the Army and did it all debt free, I'm just kind of a "Party Pooper" and I'm told that just wasn't an alternative. I mentioned that I invested for College for my Son since he was born and he's working on his second degree and owes nothing, well, it's kind of time to leave the Party, dontcha know.
If someone decides to "Pay off Students Loans", they need to rebate me a bit of cash, I didn't cause it, didn't participate and found my own way, and yet you want to pay off loans for people too stupid to read the fine print?
eightmillimeter
05-09-21, 14:17
It all starts with the FAFSA bullshit. They hound and hound to fill that crap out then when you actually finally see numbers many people think they are getting aid not loans.
Borrowing money to pay for an education that will pay enormous returns via a well paying job is 1 thing.
Borrowing money to fund a gender studies degree from a private institution is blatantly irresponsible.
Your quality of life depends on the choices you make. IDGAF how old you are. Pay your loans back.
You either did the right thing and can easily afford them now, or your a losser who deserves the misery of being broke.
What would tuition cost if the f---ing government didn't underwrite the loans? I wonder what percentage of the kids enrolled are there without loans? Probably the same percentage people that would be driving new cars if the manufactures didn't finance them.
Back in the 1970's and 80's (and even before) this didn't seem to be an issue. So what changed?
Older people are vulnerable to scams.
Most student loans are the equivalent of a home mortgage and at the same time a mostly worthless degree at the end of the road. People of a certain age group were told their entire life that a college degree is the golden ticket to success. Unless you are getting a specific degree required for a specific occupation it's almost a waste of time and in most cases a huge waste of money.
Back in the 1970's and 80's (and even before) this didn't seem to be an issue. So what changed?
People didn't borrow $80,000 with a payment plan that results in 240,000 in payments to get a degree in gender studies.
I would agree that there's jobs out there requiring a college degree that a reasonably tuned-in high school graduate could probably perform.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-09-21, 16:10
Back in the 1970's and 80's (and even before) this didn't seem to be an issue. So what changed?
People didn't borrow $80,000 with a payment plan that results in 240,000 in payments to get a degree in gender studies.
I was just looking at my university from the early 90s until now looking at room and board and tuition. Room and board is about four times as much, tuition is 12 times as much. Midsize, in a Midwestern city, private school. When I started, room and board and tuition were about the same. About 4000 to 5000 per year. While I was there tuition went up $1000 a year every year. So it almost doubled while I was there. Luckily some scholarships helped. I paid room and board, my parents paid tuition. I never went on spring break because I had always run out of money and my part-time job was feeding me at that point of the year.
Halfway through getting my MBA I did take student loans mainly to manage cash flow. Think I borrowed a total of about $3000 and paid it off within three years or something like that?
I would agree that there's jobs out there requiring a college degree that a reasonably tuned-in high school graduate could probably perform.
I definitely agree with the statement, since most people that go to college don’t learn very much. At the very same time when I got out with the technical degree there were old guys who had been doing the job I had for 40 years. They definitely had an interesting set of skills. Their holes in basic technical knowledge were always kind of interesting. It held them back from understanding the big picture.
It’s all about adding value and doing jobs that other people don’t want to or can’t do. .It’s also about management being comfortable with you in that position, and reducing risk.
I would agree that there's jobs out there requiring a college degree that a reasonably tuned-in high school graduate could probably perform.
Yep. Last time I checked there was at least one person in congress with a GED and then a "later in life" four year degree. There used to be one Florida house member who had an honorary degree.
So you can have a person who is pretty much a flunkie but if they are well connected it won't matter and they will still get hooked up with careers that an average person will never get close to.
On the other hand you can have a completely useless PhD that won't get you hired anywhere for anything if you don't have the right hook ups.
And I know plenty of people who only had high school degrees who got positions that technically required a four year degree but because they were competent and capable they got hired anyway and from that point on "experience in the field" kept them moving up the ladder.
But a bachelor of arts or bachelor of science no longer is a guarantee of anything beyond a teaching position like it once was. And the cost of that degree will usually be cost prohibitive compared to income potential. They own your ass 24/7 but military careers are once again best bang for your buck for most people if you choose the right MOS and are a capable person.
Lack of a degree is not a lack of knowledge. I was fixing COBOL code as a summer job as a teen and I am here to tell you that you don’t need a degree to do my job (it certainly helps later). I don’t regret college, but it really has become diluted with the go nowhere degrees that got all too popular since the 80s.
Still, as it stands most adults don’t have a college degree at all.
Insider spoke with borrowers with debt burdens they fear won't be paid in their lifetimes.
Take the remaining debt from their estate when they pass.
Take the remaining debt from their estate when they pass.
Naw that’s a socialist move. I don’t feel too bad for unpaid lenders. They know they are conducting usury and should know who can pay back and who can’t.
None of these lenders make money by getting paid back on time and usually profit from people paying for years and years.
I vehemently oppose Inheritance Tax. It exists solely for the state to profit from someone dying and likewise seeks to stop generational prosperity and land ownership.
Naw that’s a socialist move.
No, an Estate Tax is a socialist move.
Putting a lien on an estate for an unpaid debt is a basic capitalistic business practice.
No, an Estate Tax is a socialist move.
Putting a lien on an estate for an unpaid debt is a basic capitalistic business practice.
No because the person is dead. At that point you are punishing their survivors which is socialist.
You should have gotten the money before they died.
No because the person is dead. At that point you are punishing their survivors which is socialist.
A debt is a debt regardless of when it is paid back. That is how capitalism works.
By your logic, if a guy dies at 25, 5 minutes after closing on his house, a day after getting a car loan, the lender are SOL and the house and car go to survivors. Yeah no it does not work that way.
No survivors are punished, that is silly. Guy pays debt off day before he dies, or day after, survivors inherit the same amount.
Forgiving legally contracted debts is socialism at its finest, which is what the lefties are trying to do right now with student loans. No one is fooled by trying to avoid debt payment by dying early. Sorry Bernie.
Reward bad behavior, you’ll get more bad behavior. This is a truth, without a doubt. It should be common sense. You have to assume it is by design.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My brother in law's wife has significant student loan debt from her Bachelors and Masters in counseling. It is a struggle to make the loan payments, order out every night, take trips, and support her pot head unemployed husband. She is a raging marxist, insists her loans should be forgiven, and of course feels the bern.
Andy
No one is fooled by trying to avoid debt payment by dying early.
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/563c7467e4b08a859931e927/1530729977331-NRXIM950E32GT0H4QB4Y/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kLAhru8afpGq0enkszN8GQRZw-zPPgdn4jUwVcJE1ZvWQUxwkmyExglNqGp0IvTJZUJFbgE-7XRK3dMEBRBhUpyWkFaowvcTqH23B21hP0xQ1pKWQAJ4M1woG9HZbQ68jjlknV6gkKblunT3xnKJSlg/confused+gif
Wow. Like really wow.
Yeah. Yeah you got me. Really showed them by taking a loan and then dying early. I mean dying early was part of the plan. Dropping over stone dead and ceasing to be just to avoid a debt.
I sometimes channel my inner Gordon Gecko but dude.... Jesus Christ. Like Wow.
Okay
My seventeen-year-old son is looking at colleges. $40,000 is the average cost of tuition, room and board for the smaller, private schools. Of course, that's where he wants to go
The majority of the degree programs offered by the colleges we looked at are so left-leaning and out of touch with reality it's frightening.
I'm strongly in favor of trade schools. I hold the old-fashioned belief that it's a good idea to get out of college without crushing debt and with some employable skills
Lack of a degree is not a lack of knowledge. I was fixing COBOL code as a summer job as a teen and I am here to tell you that you don’t need a degree to do my job (it certainly helps later). I don’t regret college, but it really has become diluted with the go nowhere degrees that got all too popular since the 80s.
Still, as it stands most adults don’t have a college degree at all.
The people I'm talking about couldn't change a car tire and I don't mean the physical difficulty, I mean it is too complicated a process for them.
thepatriot2705
05-09-21, 23:01
The people I'm talking about couldn't change a car tire and I don't mean the physical difficulty, I mean it is too complicated a process for them.
I’ve helped over 100 people change tires on the side of the highway since 2011(closest call was a semi on the white line). Too many damn males can’t change a damn tire.
As for the topic on hand, i had my college paid for thanks to my mom working at a private university. I’m extremely grateful for that. If I did it again, I would have gone to trade school. Why? Because I’m not even using a degree which is practical and typically lucrative
Averageman
05-09-21, 23:07
Do you think this would continue if we required classes in Personal Finance in our High Schools?
I couldn't/didn't have any personal credit until I was in my early 30's. No credit cards, no atm cards, I paid for everything cash in hand. Most of that was because I chose to live in Germany when the exchange rate was great and tried to never leave. So when I got back to the States, I had some money and avoided a lot of traps along the way.
Bounced one check along the way, but I will be sixty pretty soon. Not bad at all.
I'm in the age group that this article is about. The only thing I see in that article is a bunch of whiny, irresponsible adults.
They also mention adults in this age bracket owing for their kids' education. I still can't fathom why people do that. If you couldn't save for your kids' education, why do you think you'll be able to pay off a loan for it? It sucks, but it's still totally possible to work your way through college and pay for it yourself. My oldest daughter is doing it. Nope, it's not an expensive college, but she's had zero issues in getting employment with her community college associates degree. She turned that degree into a decent job that is assisting her with her bachelors. She's chipping away at it and I'm proud of her.
I'm in the age group that this article is about. The only thing I see in that article is a bunch of whiny, irresponsible adults.
They also subtilty mention adults in this age bracket owing for their kids' education. I still can't fathom why people do that. If you couldn't save for your kids' education, why do you think you'll be able to pay off a loan for it? It sucks, but it's still totally possible to work your way through college and pay for it yourself. My oldest daughter is doing it. Nope, it's not an expensive college, but she's had zero issues in getting employment with her community college associates degree. She turned that degree into a decent job that is assisting her with her bachelors. She's chipping away at it and I'm proud of her.
I personally worked full-time or more and attained two bachelors degrees owing zero dollars at both graduations. It is certainly possible. In fact, it should be the norm.
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Do you think this would continue if we required classes in Personal Finance in our High Schools?
Used to be called Home Economics, I took it my sophomore year. I even learned a few things I didn't already know.
Kinda like when they were calling the home loans predatory not to long ago
Greed and or stupidity a bit of both
Agree on going to be a lawyer or doctor BUT those folks are usually smart and understand
the ones mentioned like I am going to study fluid gender fish of the amazon are not so smart and the $300,000 degree must be sold to them with some kinda this is the future ? No idea but the idiocy anymore nothing surprises me any more :)
Kinda like when they were calling the home loans predatory not to long ago
Greed and or stupidity a bit of both
It was actually Fuct.
First it was you wont give low income families a chance at the American dream and it's RACISTS.
So then in order to NOT BE RACIST, they were qualifying people who made $30,000 a year for $300,000 which of course made housing prices go crazy and what once sold for $80,000 was now selling for $150,000 and rather than buy a house for $120,000 they were buying houses for $280,000 because that is what they qualified for. Never mind the economics of buying a house WAY out of your budget based on income, they felt if they qualified for that amount that is the amount they should shop with.
This created the bubble and now people who made $30,000 a year could qualify for $400,000 homes based upon the projected retail price of the house 10 years into the future. At one point people were getting 125% loans which meant if the house was selling for $200,000 the bank would loan just about anyone $250,000 to buy it because all house prices were trending up and the house would be worth $250,000 within 10 years so it was seen as low risk.
Then came the flippers who bought houses for $100,000 and put in granite countertops and a couple other "most requested features" and then sold the house for $180,000 even though they might not have invested much more than $10,000 in materials and a months work. Given that some people don't even make $70,000 a year much less every month it was a bubble that anyone with a brain had to know can't last forever.
And when it came to an end, people who bought $300,000 homes that were now worth $120,000 still couldn't pay their mortgage because they only made $30,000 a year. People who bought a house for $80,000 with the intent to flip it usually ended up living in it when they lost their ass on evaporated profit potential. Banks and investment groups that provided those "non racist" loans to buyers who were shockingly unqualified got bailed out with the tax payer left holding the ball.
Some of those unqualified buyers simply stopped paying their mortgage and lived in their $300,000 homes "rent free" for up to two years in some cases all the while banking the money that would have been going to the mortgage payment and they ended up with a huge windfall that let them actually buy nice houses in nice neighborhoods when the prices had decreased by 70% or more.
The only people that got hurt were those who bought within their budget and were 50% or more paid off and suddenly their home was worth half of what they paid on it. They were too invested to walk away or go into foreclosure and squat in it for a couple years, but it would be another 10 years until their house broke even and was actually worth what they paid for it maybe 20 years ago. So basically those who did it the right way and paid their mortgage for 20 years on a 30 year note earned nothing from what is for most people their largest investment.
I always explain to people that I can easily finance a new Ferrari, but I cannot afford to own a Ferrari. Those who are savvy quickly have an "aha" moment and understand what was so dangerous about the housing market back then, other people look at me and say "but if you qualify for financing you CAN buy a Ferrari." And those are the same people who bought houses that cost 10 times their annual income.
teufelhund1918
05-10-21, 05:46
I graduated in 1993 with a Bachelor of Science in Aeronautical Studies with majors in aircraft maintenance and management. The airline industry tanked about the time I graduated and there were no jobs to be had for years afterwards. Airlines like Piedmont and USAir went under flooding the industry with skilled workers. I left owing over $48,000 in student loans... a tidy sum at that time. I found work after graduating, but only at minimum wage and had to defer paying on my loans all the while interest was building on the loan. At least a job that would help pay my student loans back which were $450+ a month at that time. After over a year and a half of job hunting, I finally got a good paying job at a coal fired steam power plant, nothing to do with my degree at all. I worked all the overtime I could putting in 70-80 hour weeks living in a s@!#y little rental and driving a cheap car while applying every bit of income I could to pay off my loan. I finally did it after 6 years!
I say all the above because I was grateful to have help from my folks when the loans didn't cover all my tuition. My loans went to pay the tuition for my education. But I know from being there in college and seeing that a lot of students took out student loans when they didn't need the money for tuition. They used the funds to purchase cars, party, pay rent in upscale apartments, etc. That is why when I see this stuff these days about student loan forgiveness, I get burned up. It will only encourage those that don't need the loans to take out every penny they can if they know they don't have to pay it back. They need to hold these people accountable for how those loans are used IMHO. But they also need to make the loans easier to repay once someone graduates from college.
This is where I call a spade a spade. Fact is, college is kinda BS to begin with. Some degrees are worth getting. The vast majority are not.
To do job, you really don’t need a college degree. That’s what the academy is for.
Per computer programming, I was doing it for a summer job and paid well. To save for a degree to get a job I was already doing with High School. That’s what confounds me about technology. It has so many gatekeepers. There was a time when nobody cared about a degree. They cared if your code worked.
MSCE? What was that? Can you code?
Now tech and most professions like it are gate kept by some fat black woman in HR who only hires people based on a list of preferences given to her by some suit. The prerequisites are astonishing if you think about it:
-Bachelor’s Degree or higher
-5 years experience
-30k starting salary
-5 excellent references
Think about this....what 23 year old getting out of college has 5 years programming experience on top of his degree etc all to make money he could make at Target or Walmart?
Most are being given to pajeets who don’t have any of that but will also work for far less to sell an inferior product.
This is where I hate crass capitalism. Yeah you are making money but you’re also selling an inferior product. Bill Gates did this and I hope he either dies of corona or goes to jail for Epstein Island. I hate being given illusion of choice and then get told I have agency of action when I don’t.
The education system is a racket just to keep people watching baskethoops or sportsball or some other stupid, inane, dumbass waste of time. I mean.....there are people who actually care that somebody can throw a ball in a hoop. It’s stupid.
I wish sports were totally removed from academia so real people could actually go to school rather than be forced to look at, smell, or be subjected to some loud, retarded ape just there for sports and free food.
It’s all a sham
lovetashoot
05-10-21, 09:50
I finished Clemson with a chemical engineering degree. It was moderately affordable at the time. I worked summers, breaks, and CD anytime I could on a field land surveying crew. My folks helped here and there and I finished with a lucrative (for my somewhat simple tastes) degree. I’m thankful for the help I received and understand that not everyone has that. The degree has been worth the cost.
Sometime around when the government began backing private loans, Clemson’s tuition shot up. And up, and up. And during this time admin salaries also went up and up. There are multiple deans making in excess of $400k being paid for by the rising tuition. No one really asks where all this money goes, but it’s really admin, expensive law firms that allow money to flow out without the best paper trail, new facilities in high rent area, etc.
I was contacted by the Director of Institutional Giving and asked to remember Clemson in my will. She made in excess of $170K. I told her to piss off.
It’s really sickening to see a system that was established to educate people for furthering society became a wasteful dump of money from kids who can’t afford it.
It’s all a sham
Once again you saved me some typing. I swear if my family had reunions, I'd half expect to see you walk in.
It's all a sham... with a few exceptions, medicine, accounting, pharmacy, engineering, you make a valid point.
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-10-21, 17:27
Naw that’s a socialist move. I don’t feel too bad for unpaid lenders. They know they are conducting usury and should know who can pay back and who can’t.
None of these lenders make money by getting paid back on time and usually profit from people paying for years and years.
I vehemently oppose Inheritance Tax. It exists solely for the state to profit from someone dying and likewise seeks to stop generational prosperity and land ownership.
It's become a sham, but it wasn't at one time.
The issue is that education as a whole is jacked up. It seems like everything else, there is a not a normal distribution but a weird 'dumb-bell' (which ins't quite right). We used to turn out, on average, better educated kids. Today, most kids get a shadow of former educations, while a few are able to leverage the access to knowledge and apply hard work and get phenomenal educations- and get jobs where they can apply them.
The dirty secret is that there aren't that many jobs where having an awesome education and genius IQ make that much of a difference. So while we can mock young kids for slacking off their education, does it really make a difference? Part of that is the nature of technology and its application, the other is that there are just less places to apply yourself. Our economy is getting stagnant and overly regulated- but at the same time highly competitive based on cost. Why try hard with a tough degree if it doesn't matter. Lots of Biology degree STEM kids get crappy jobs.
So basically live Club Med lifestyle for 4-5 years and pay it off over the next 40 years while you cheer on the weekends for the football team and basketball team.
Education, like most things, are wasted on the youth. I missed more classes in a week of undergrad than I did in three years when I was going back part-time for my MBA while I worked full-time.
Frankly, looking back, I think there is one legit college path- pHd in Math, maybe a masters, but industry do job drops for pHd's that are functioning humans. Math, because everything is with applied math or applied math applications. Plus it proves you aren't a moron. Physics is applied math, engineering is applied physics. Chemistry is applied physics, biology is applied chemistry, psychology is applied biology. Gender studies is just applied bull crap...
First off, the "follow your dreams" pie-in-the-sky BS being fed to kids for the last 30 years is contributing to this. Tech and medical fields are always hiring, but no one wants THAT shit. They want to sit at the house, working from home and expecting to make north of $100K starting out. Uh huh. Good luck with that.
More often than not fvcking reality rears it's ugly head: the VAST majority of us schleps deal with a job we don't particularly care for but it pays the bills. I don't like the medical field, don't watch medical shows or read medical articles, but I do my job well and professionally (being a little O/C helps) and it has paid my bills for over three decades. Sure as hell not going to drop it now that I just might be able to retire in the next 5 years. You deal with life and deal with your job.
Nancy-New-Grad don't wanna work no nights or weekends and holidays. Fark that. I WANT this and I WANT that. Well guess what Nancy? Life has a surprise for you. Hint: it won't be what those brain-washing commie professors told you it would be.
go work for the CIA but they wont hire you if your white or male or do not have a bunch of mental conditions :)
First off, the "follow your dreams" pie-in-the-sky BS being fed to kids for the last 30 years is contributing to this. Tech and medical fields are always hiring, but no one wants THAT shit. They want to sit at the house, working from home and expecting to make north of $100K starting out. Uh huh. Good luck with that.
More often than not fvcking reality rears it's ugly head: the VAST majority of us schleps deal with a job we don't particularly care for but it pays the bills. I don't like the medical field, don't watch medical shows or read medical articles, but I do my job well and professionally (being a little O/C helps) and it has paid my bills for over three decades. Sure as hell not going to drop it now that I just might be able to retire in the next 5 years. You deal with life and deal with your job.
Nancy-New-Grad don't wanna work no nights or weekends and holidays. Fark that. I WANT this and I WANT that. Well guess what Nancy? Life has a surprise for you. Hint: it won't be what those brain-washing commie professors told you it would be.
My aforementioned daughter, earlier in this thread, is a medical laboratory technician. It doesn't pay as high as nursing, but it's damn good for a 24 y.o. No problems making ends meet and paying off her loans. She also covers those crappy shifts, works overtime and has made herself more valuable. She wants to move back home and everyone she called here has basically offered her a job. Having her foot in the door allowed her to make an educated decision on which direction she wants to head in the field. She's wants to be a medical examiner, so she's gunning to get into our state crime lab in some capacity, then continue her education.
My sister, brother and i each paid our own way through college. We took out loans, which we paid off well within the designated timeframe. Was it easy? No, but we didn't get degrees in Underwater Basket weaving or 15th Century Opera either. Degrees like JD, Chem E, and Manufacturing Engineering seemed to be more marketable. Sure, we had to delay things like vacations, nice cars, houses, until the loans were paid, but we did it. We also worked like dogs while we were in school.
So these whiny bastards complaining about their loans need to STFU - nobody held a gun to their heads and forced them to sign the loan docs. Quitcher bitchin and pay yer debts.
I skipped college because I got a job doing what I was going to go to school for (this had issues of it’s own, mostly due to lack of life experience).
When I was dating a law school student, it was shocked at how much she was taking out in loans. I was even more shocked at how much grant money was available yet wasn’t claimed because people couldn’t be bothered to fill out the paperwork on time. She literally could have shaved 15-20% off of her tuition by filling out some paperwork.
There are lots of job that ask for a BA degree just because everyone expects you to have gone to college, not because you picked up skills at uni. And HR doesn’t have a person looking at job applications, a computer winnows the pile down, and then you might get a call.
But the positive thing about college (if you do it right), are the relationships you foster, and the contacts you can make. Kids go to USC not only because you have access to a prestigious school, but because you can network there in ways you can’t unless you’ve been working for a few years. It really can give you a jump start in the working world. And in a lot of jobs, your alma mater matters to the people who do the hiring. That’s just how it is. Not every industry, but plenty of good paying gigs.
Here’s the problem going forward though - If you think the job market is tough now, wait until AI and machine learning start to really wipe out desk jobs; programming, financial markets, tax prep, pharma, you name it. In a lot of industries the only reason there are humans working at all is to answer customer service questions.
That’s not to say AI will do this better, in some ways it can’t because it will never have an “Ah ha!” moment, but it will do it cheaper and more efficiently.
But it won’t ever be able to fix plumbing, electrical, etc. I’d 100% do trade school if I were a high schooler.
I really don’t know what advice I’ll give my kids. I’d love got them to have the opportunity to have a great experience, but the chances of them having to be wage slaves to pay off student debt is scary.
Sent from 80ms in the future
FromMyColdDeadHand
05-11-21, 02:15
I’ve helped over 100 people change tires on the side of the highway since 2011(closest call was a semi on the white line). Too many damn males can’t change a damn tire.
As for the topic on hand, i had my college paid for thanks to my mom working at a private university. I’m extremely grateful for that. If I did it again, I would have gone to trade school. Why? Because I’m not even using a degree which is practical and typically lucrative
Spreadsheets didn't put accountants out of business, but it hurt book keepers doing math. Buddy is in insurance, they are already using AI for some low level paper work on claims and it is working its way up. Specialize, specialize, specialize and add value. Wife was finishing residency and was thinking about a specialty. I was like - you can spend three more years and make almost double for the rest of your life? This trophy husband doesn't finance a small army on his own ;) - I'll see you in three years.
fedupflyer
05-11-21, 04:52
The airline industry tanked about the time I graduated and there were no jobs to be had for years afterwards. Airlines like Piedmont and USAir went under flooding the industry with skilled workers.
Points of correction
They airline industry tanked in ‘91 with Eastern and PanAm both going out of business. I graduated in ‘93 also and sounds like from the same school.
Piedmont and US Air did not go under.
US Air bought Piedmont in a leveraged by-out in ‘89 and did almost wreck both companies in the process.
US Air would later merge with America West in 2005 and then in 2015 US Airways bought American Airlines. (AA did not buy USAir as many believe)
teufelhund1918
05-11-21, 05:08
Points of correction
They airline industry tanked in ‘91 with Eastern and PanAm both going out of business. I graduated in ‘93 also and sounds like from the same school.
Piedmont and US Air did not go under.
US Air bought Piedmont in a leveraged by-out in ‘89 and did almost wreck both companies in the process.
US Air would later merge with America West in 2005 and then in 2015 US Airways bought American Airlines. (AA did not buy USAir as many believe)
Long time ago and I'm sure those brain cells died in my feeble mind.
Riddle Diddle Kite School?
fedupflyer
05-12-21, 20:42
Long time ago and I'm sure those brain cells died in my feeble mind.
Riddle Diddle Kite School?
Yup......
I skipped college because I got a job doing what I was going to go to school for (this had issues of it’s own, mostly due to lack of life experience).
When I was dating a law school student, it was shocked at how much she was taking out in loans. I was even more shocked at how much grant money was available yet wasn’t claimed because people couldn’t be bothered to fill out the paperwork on time. She literally could have shaved 15-20% off of her tuition by filling out some paperwork.
…
I really don’t know what advice I’ll give my kids. I’d love got them to have the opportunity to have a great experience, but the chances of them having to be wage slaves to pay off student debt is scary.
M
Average(!) JD grad makes 55k/yr. it doesn’t go up much farther. Law school is a gamble unless you’re too 10% or in a top 14 school. Glut of lawyers, lower retirement rates, and as you said AI is turning new jd grads into $15/hr analysts training machine learning models.
Averageman
05-13-21, 10:27
My Son is about to Graduate with his MBA with an emphasis in accounting.
I'm hoping he works for a Bank rather than as an Accountant.
The idea of loan forgiveness doesn’t bother me in the least! Student loans are welfare for college towns.
Few if any grads graduate with much of a bank account. Money is all left behind in the local economy.
There's a LOT wrong with the entire system and to make the student 100% responsible is ridiculous! Hold the universities responsible for job placement to some degree.
If they can't provide internship or interview possibilities during students tenure THEY pay the loan! It's easy stuff! No promises to jobs but will put you face to face with a person who may hire you...at least once!
Doesn't get quite as much publicity as student loan issues with younger folks, but it seems to be a substantial problem. Looks like a lot of these people will die still owing a lot of money for these debts. Getting your Social Security benefits garnished would be the icing on the cake, I guess. Of course, there's the opposing viewpoint of "You took out these loans willingly. So you can't really complain too much".
"Over 8 million borrowers over age 50 hold 22% of the federal student-debt load, or $336.1 billion.
Insider spoke with borrowers with debt burdens they fear won't be paid in their lifetimes.
One borrower started with $79,000 in debt, paid $175,000, but still has a balance of over $200,000."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/older-people-giving-hope-paying-123000078.html
Be willing to bet the above mentioned $200K still in debt wasn't a math major. Stupid decisions should hurt, and others should not be forced to pay it off.
It does give me comfort knowing that the pink haired gals and skinny jean soy boys pouring coffee at Starbucks have masters degrees in political science to back up their work.
I graduated with a professional degree and well into 6 figures in debt. Current graduates with my same degree can easily expect a half mil in debt. I've paid off a majority of mine so far only due to my degree being potentially lucrative if you're willing to work. I'm lucky in that I'm currently more concerned with putting away for retirement than paying off the remainder at 2.7% interest.
It will reach a point where even a lucrative career doesn't make up for a decade of schooling/lost earning years/5-700k+ in education debt before even acquiring funds to build your business or purchase a home.
I can't imagine accumulating large amounts of debt for a degree that doesn't give the opportunity to earn. I try to ingrain this thinking into my kids. But I still worry about them. My oldest is graduating high school in a couple weeks......
I think it's a multifactorial problem that I don't know the answer to. I think the best start would be to get the government out of the student loan business. Or seriously curtail it. I'm sure Universities froth at the mouth thinking of all the "free" money their student body feeds them from Uncle Sam.
The idea of loan forgiveness doesn’t bother me in the least! Student loans are welfare for college towns.
Few if any grads graduate with much of a bank account. Money is all left behind in the local economy.
There's a LOT wrong with the entire system and to make the student 100% responsible is ridiculous! Hold the universities responsible for job placement to some degree.
If they can't provide internship or interview possibilities during students tenure THEY pay the loan! It's easy stuff! No promises to jobs but will put you face to face with a person who may hire you...at least once!
Why stop at student loans? Why not pay off my truck and house for me, too?
The students knew what they were signing up for. Debt is debt. You take it on, you pay it. You don’t make the rest of the country pay for it, essentially, at the barrel of a gun.
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NickySantoro
05-14-21, 10:58
Naw that’s a socialist move. I don’t feel too bad for unpaid lenders. They know they are conducting usury and should know who can pay back and who can’t.
None of these lenders make money by getting paid back on time and usually profit from people paying for years and years.
I vehemently oppose Inheritance Tax. It exists solely for the state to profit from someone dying and likewise seeks to stop generational prosperity and land ownership.
Bah! More nonsense.
morbidbattlecry
05-14-21, 12:48
Why stop at student loans? Why not pay off my truck and house for me, too?
The students knew what they were signing up for. Debt is debt. You take it on, you pay it. You don’t make the rest of the country pay for it, essentially, at the barrel of a gun.
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Slippery Slope much?
Slippery Slope much?
Thank you for providing interpretation as to what I was highlighting such that even those of us in Rio Linda may understand.
I thought everybody would get the point, but you never know.
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I know that lenders can set interest, but do people really need to be paying 4x more than the original loan?
Seems that there needs to be some limit on how long they can milk you for repayments. I'm not a fan of more government meddling, but who or what has the clout to affect that?
From a guy with three degrees and paid off loans.
Why stop at student loans? Why not pay off my truck and house for me, too?
The students knew what they were signing up for. Debt is debt. You take it on, you pay it. You don’t make the rest of the country pay for it, essentially, at the barrel of a gun.
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Debt is not debt.....Ever hear of bankruptcy? Can't do that with student loans. Only debt I'm familiar with you can't do so.
In over your head with your truck or house you can sell it or re-fi or trade down. Myriad of options.
You can ring up massive credit card debt on fun times and small items that you'd never have to give back. Unsecured loans work that way....If you squander millions and have nothing you walk away free and clean and in 7 years can pull that stunt again. Trump has done it with his hotels and casinos 6 times so far! You don't think there were a lot of people left high and dry?
Are you just griping about student loans or all forms of debt wiped clean?
So how about doing away with bankruptcy entirely? Wanna give up that option in case something catastrophic happens to you or your family?
Debt is not debt.....Ever hear of bankruptcy? Can't do that with student loans. Only debt I'm familiar with you can't do so.
In over your head with your truck or house you can sell it or re-fi or trade down. Myriad of options.
You can ring up massive credit card debt on fun times and small items that you'd never have to give back. Unsecured loans work that way....If you squander millions and have nothing you walk away free and clean and in 7 years can pull that stunt again. Trump has done it with his hotels and casinos 6 times so far! You don't think there were a lot of people left high and dry?
Are you just griping about student loans or all forms of debt wiped clean?
So how about doing away with bankruptcy entirely? Wanna give up that option in case something catastrophic happens to you or your family?
Every student would qualify for bankruptcy day one. Bankruptcy is bullshit. I’d be in favor of ending it.
Nobody forced students to take stupid loans on stupid degrees. None of them would ever pay it given the option. Sorry, keep that commie crap out of here.
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Every student would qualify for bankruptcy day one. Bankruptcy is bullshit. I’d be in favor of ending it.
Nobody forced students to take stupid loans on stupid degrees. None of them would ever pay it given the option. Sorry, keep that commie crap out of here.
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Haha!!
Bankruptcy is commie crap...OK....Bring back debtors prisons!
Nobody forces anyone to take ANY financial risk but things can work out that way.
Chapter 7 hammers ones credit for at least 7 years. Won't get a good job, no financing cars...no home etc.... Consider an average student may graduate with a Master's by say 25-28. Loans deferred, looking for work another 5 years till bottom falls out. Now add 7. Does starting over financially at 42 sound appealing? 42 years old with zero credit and behind the 8 ball... Chicks dig guys that have zip at 42! Where do I sign up! Right!!
You think you have life by the balls tough guy? Just wait! Just you wait.....You have NO CLUE what can happen next! You think your insurance covers everything? Sucker!
How about all the people who earned geoscience degrees now unemployed due to Sleepy Joe? A gov't that actually monkey wrenches an industry....
Good luck pal!
Haha!!
Bankruptcy is commie crap...OK....Bring back debtors prisons!
Nobody forces anyone to take ANY financial risk but things can work out that way.
Chapter 7 hammers ones credit for at least 7 years. Won't get a good job, no financing cars...no home etc.... Consider an average student may graduate with a Master's by say 25-28. Loans deferred, looking for work another 5 years till bottom falls out. Now add 7. Does starting over financially at 42 sound appealing? 42 years old with zero credit and behind the 8 ball... Chicks dig guys that have zip at 42! Where do I sign up! Right!!
You think you have life by the balls tough guy? Just wait! Just you wait.....You have NO CLUE what can happen next! You think your insurance covers everything? Sucker!
How about all the people who earned geoscience degrees now unemployed due to Sleepy Joe? A gov't that actually monkey wrenches an industry....
Good luck pal!
Again, it isn’t society’s responsibility to pay for students’ underwater basket weaving degrees.
There are many, many ways to pay for your degree if you want one. I worked 60 hrs a week and paid out of pocket. I didn’t choose a school I couldn’t afford and got two practical degrees which I researched beforehand to ensure I could gain employment.
It sounds like to me you chose poorly and want me to pay for you.
ETA: I don’t think I need any pity party for students CHOOSING higher education they can’t afford nor a lecture on losing everything. Been there, done that. I lost everything at one point. I spent almost ten months homeless….sometimes sleeping on my office floor, my car, and couch surfing until my welcome was worn out. Six months I spent in a concrete floor at a relative’s. Guess what? I didn’t file bankruptcy, I paid my debts in full and clawed my way back to normalcy.
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Haha!!
Bankruptcy is commie crap...OK....Bring back debtors prisons!
Nobody forces anyone to take ANY financial risk but things can work out that way.
Chapter 7 hammers ones credit for at least 7 years. Won't get a good job, no financing cars...no home etc.... Consider an average student may graduate with a Master's by say 25-28. Loans deferred, looking for work another 5 years till bottom falls out. Now add 7. Does starting over financially at 42 sound appealing? 42 years old with zero credit and behind the 8 ball... Chicks dig guys that have zip at 42! Where do I sign up! Right!!
You think you have life by the balls tough guy? Just wait! Just you wait.....You have NO CLUE what can happen next! You think your insurance covers everything? Sucker!
How about all the people who earned geoscience degrees now unemployed due to Sleepy Joe? A gov't that actually monkey wrenches an industry....
Good luck pal! So, it's o.k. for me to pay for it? Make my kids, who made wise financial decisions, pay for it? I'm already paying for a pile of shit I don't want to through taxes. Don't make me pay for more.
Again, it isn’t society’s responsibility to pay for students’ underwater basket weaving degrees.
There are many, many ways to pay for your degree if you want one. I worked 60 hrs a week and paid out of pocket. I didn’t choose a school I couldn’t afford and got two practical degrees which I researched beforehand to ensure I could gain employment.
It sounds like to me you chose poorly and want me to pay for you.
ETA: I don’t think I need any pity party for students CHOOSING higher education they can’t afford nor a lecture on losing everything. Been there, done that. I lost everything at one point. I spent almost ten months homeless….sometimes sleeping on my office floor, my car, and couch surfing until my welcome was worn out. Six months I spent in a concrete floor at a relative’s. Guess what? I didn’t file bankruptcy, I paid my debts in full and clawed my way back to normalcy.
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You forgot the part about walking 10 miles to school though the snow....up hill both ways...
Me?...I'm self employed...run my own business. I'm fine. No sob story from me...I don't need any sympathy for sleeping on hard surfaces....but it looks great on you!
Every heard the phrase "Privatizing profits and socializing losses" That's how US corporations WORK! Remember GM 2008...too big to fail... Don't think they've paid a dime back yet....That's de rigueur of how businesses in USA operate, always have always will.
Let's start there and then I'll start holding individuals to the same standards....... Meanwhile if Trump can go belly up 6 times with his hotels and casinos....Everyone else should be able to do it once....
So, it's o.k. for me to pay for it? Make my kids, who made wise financial decisions, pay for it? I'm already paying for a pile of shit I don't want to through taxes. Don't make me pay for more.
Yep!
If you're too stupid to find tax breaks and are paying too much in taxes...I don't care if you pay for Pakistan donkey sex changes!
Get a decent accountant and quit griping!
Seriously! I can't imagine anyone with a decent tax accountant griping about taxes..... I made good money last year and had no complaint with my tax bill....There are SO MANY WAYS to legitimately lower your tax burden to almost $0.....
Open your eyes fellas! It's right in front of you!
:D
Somebody has a serious chip on their shoulder.
It's more nuanced than just basket weaving and commie bankruptcy
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It's more nuanced than just basket weaving and commie bankruptcy
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It certainly is, but at the end of the day, it isn’t the public’s fault people make poor decisions, nor should we collectively bail out student loans. Would I be eligible for a refund for my degrees and my wife’s degree?
Their purportedly worthless degrees, yes, they are worthless if they can’t find a job using them, cannot be repossessed like my house can, or my car, or virtually any possession. If you open that door, nobody will ever pay for their own degree again. Or is this going to be a one-time thing for those with debt now? Surely that behavior will end if we just bail them out once? Or will lenders recognize this and all but government lenders charge interest rates more similar to credit cards knowing they are possibly going to get screwed by non-payers? Let’s punish the responsible for the irresponsible.
And the concept that your masters degree should be forgiven is asinine. If you can’t find a job with a bachelors degree in the field, you shouldn’t be borrowing for that masters unless you’re in a field with gate keeping that requires advanced degrees, which is also part of the problem.
I literally watched a person who was 32 years old, working on a masters degree who had never had a job tell me she was getting a masters because she still didn’t know what she wanted to do with her life. I asked her if racking up the debt of a masters was helping her situation, she told me that when Bernie becomes President, they will wipe out her debt anyway.
Meanwhile, those that went to trade schools are in high demand and have less debt…and often have more earning power than those with college degrees. They are largely the ones paying for this fantasy, should it come to fruition.
This whole concept is a genie that can’t be put back in the bottle.
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It's more nuanced than just basket weaving and commie bankruptcy
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Yep!
I know 3 people who are struggling. One has an elderly parent who had a stroke and he's sole care taker. He can't take full time work. He didn't plan on this but he's now approaching 60 and serious doubts he'll ever have gainful employment. He's in the $100K club.... It'll be $200K before he's done and what happens to any inheritance....
My friends in the petroleum industry are feeling the pinch now. Petroleum industry demands an MS so many have $100K debt. Could easily be paid back but joe and dems et al are destroying the industry.
Once you hit 55 you can for get getting a good job! Fact of life...Systemic age discrimination as not a good risk based on health and longevity. SO now what...?
Some of you guys think I'm suggesting graduating and filing Chapter 7! No! But I think after say 10 years the loan needs to be examined and re organized or interest halted.
Bankruptcy sounds evil but it keeps things rolling. Sure some get left holding the bag at the end of the day. Should GM been bailed out? Kept a bunch of people employed and off the dole BUT enabled outrageous salaries from suits to continue unabated.....
Loans need to be tailored for the major and potential earnings over a 10 year period. Should only be for tuition and fees and university should be lowering tuition as students progress as they have proven drive and ability. Unfortunately universities are outrageously liberal and support all sorts of idiocy that loans go towards.
Bankruptcy is FAR from commie BS. it's a core capitalistic value that provides some sort of net for taking financial risks.
IF joe et al succeed in banning ALL forms of semi-auto, AR, etc....what do you think is gonna happen to Magpul, BCM, Daniel Defense, Sig...? You want them to continue to innovate and produce goods or start folding up right now? Bankruptcy, reorganizing debt is a net that will allow them possibly survive the federal idiocy......
We don’t treat bankruptcy of the individual in a purely capitalist way at all. It’s a get out of jail free card.
When a corporation filed bankruptcy, it comes to negotiate changing terms so that they may in fact, pay those which they owe.
The company gets reorganized, often management and ownership changes are made, and if that is to no avail, the corporation is broken up and liquidated. See Remington.
What is the 65 year old who owes $250,000 for their baby-girl’s private school tuition where she got her degree in fashion design putting on the line? Do the creditors get their house? Their car?
Your example is apples to oranges.
Meddling in free-markets is NOT a free-market principle.
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First off, the Federal government should have NEVER been given monopoly over student loans. That means a future bankruptcy *might* wipe them clean but it should ruin you for a while as a punishment (like bankruptcies do). Get in over your head and file bankruptcy? Well life's gonna suck for a while as a result.
Further, these "institutions of higher learning" should be the ones financing those loans. Might tighten up the bullshit courses they offer.
Now, back to personal choices.....a lot of these lazy-ass teens/20-somethings don't want to actually work, get their hands dirty, work weekends/nights/holidays, etc. Nope, they want that $100K+/work from home in my underwear job right out of the gate. Tough shit. You choose some sorry-ass or generic degree (how many Business, Marketing, Pol-Sci, or Philosophy degrees are out there?) and end up flipping burgers with beaucoup debt I don't feel one ounce of pity for you.
Now not everyone has to work a trades/skilled job, but that is the ticket. I don't like the medical field but it has paid my bills for over 3 decades now as well as allowed me to take vacations and buy toys. I deal with it. Not everyone gets a "dream job". That's life, f*****g get over it. Your La-La Land fantasy life isn't going to come to fruition. Accept it. Welcome to life like the rest of us schleps. If you choose to roll the dice on some generic or relatively worthless degree and end up in student debt up to your eyeballs you deserve it; you might get lucky and hit it big, but odds are you won't.
***I have to confess I have a cousin who is an exception to the above-stated rule of life: he got one of those Business or Finance degrees (or similar). Went to an interview, and noticed the guy was a Notre Dame fan. My cuz told him he'd been a member of the Fighting Irish (actually the name of his HS football team!), so he was only slightly lying. When the guy found out he hadn't gone to ND he was pissed and essentially told him "This interview's over". My cuz stood up, and before he left told the guy "I apologize, but you're letting the best prospect you've ever had walk out". Apparently the guy was impressed with his brass balls and told him to sit back down. My cuz is a millionaire now working for the petroleum industry, but he has had to live in Singapore, England, and Switzerland over the years, kind of paying his dues. Nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Bought my aunt and uncle a condo, never forgot from whence he came. Like I said, he is the exception, not the rule.
To me the mentality of “work my ass off in a field I hate to take vacations and buy ‘toys’” seems backwards. Sounds like chips on shoulders from multiple posters.
Also seems like STEM field graduates or at least advocates have the most shit to talk about non STEM fields. Like seriously. Projection. Maybe you’re miserable or ultimately unfulfilled by and with your own sensible choices.
I dig this. I do.
Money is a lot of things but it isn’t everything. Like, had I stuck with computers I would undoubtedly make more money but I would have not been content. I actually do enjoy what I do and I live comfortably.
Docsherm was right in a way, if you just sit on your ass you will stay at the bottom. Don’t be afraid to fail here and there. People will respect you for it.
I mean I can’t really think of anything else I would like to do for years on end. So I did get my dream job.
The problem with young people is they watch all these liars on YouTube who do a HD video of them driving a rented Lambo wearing expensive clothes and saying buzzwords that don’t mean anything. If they do anything they are doing some kind of Pyramid scheme that preys upon dummies thinking they can stunt their way to wealth.
No....no. You aren’t going to be a rapper. You aren’t going to shoot hoops. No you won’t get “discovered”.
I mean it’s kinda mawkish but I saw this commercial as a kid and the little catchphrase always stuck with me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMPu99_Xvjw
Yep!
If you're too stupid to find tax breaks and are paying too much in taxes...I don't care if you pay for Pakistan donkey sex changes!
Get a decent accountant and quit griping!
Seriously! I can't imagine anyone with a decent tax accountant griping about taxes..... I made good money last year and had no complaint with my tax bill....There are SO MANY WAYS to legitimately lower your tax burden to almost $0.....
Open your eyes fellas! It's right in front of you!
:D
Really depends what state you live in. If you live in a place that also has state taxes, the allowable deductions change dramatically. Also there is a "prove it" rather than "list it" mentality regarding deductions.
To me the mentality of “work my ass off in a field I hate to take vacations and buy ‘toys’” seems backwards. Sounds like chips on shoulders from multiple posters.
Also seems like STEM field graduates or at least advocates have the most shit to talk about non STEM fields. Like seriously. Projection. Maybe you’re miserable or ultimately unfulfilled by and with your own sensible choices.
lol
No, I'm not miserable, far from it. I would never take a job I absolutely detested, but one I can deal with. Oh, and do it thoroughly, not half-stepping because I am not "living my dream".
I also am not paying off student loans.
“work my ass off in a field I hate to take vacations and buy ‘toys’” seems backwards. Sounds like someone's shooting for the stars maybe didn't work out?
I dig this. I do.
Money is a lot of things but it isn’t everything. Like, had I stuck with computers I would undoubtedly make more money but I would have not been content. I actually do enjoy what I do and I live comfortably.
Docsherm was right in a way, if you just sit on your ass you will stay at the bottom. Don’t be afraid to fail here and there. People will respect you for it.
I mean I can’t really think of anything else I would like to do for years on end. So I did get my dream job.
The problem with young people is they watch all these liars on YouTube who do a HD video of them driving a rented Lambo wearing expensive clothes and saying buzzwords that don’t mean anything. If they do anything they are doing some kind of Pyramid scheme that preys upon dummies thinking they can stunt their way to wealth.
No....no. You aren’t going to be a rapper. You aren’t going to shoot hoops. No you won’t get “discovered”.
Interesting you took less $$$ for something you actually like doing (compared to what you could be making). Of course it didn't put you in a shit-ton of debt either by doing so.
I took the steady, decent-paying route. Although it isn't my life's dream (nor something I pursue in my off time) I can nonetheless tolerate it while doing it well. I look at life in coldly practical terms; sometimes ya just gotta deal with shit. I have to say though, you being kind of "into" your job (while still making ends meet comfortably) is admirable.....buy a lottery ticket, you have an outlook the vast majority of working folks don't! More power to ya!
Yep!
If you're too stupid to find tax breaks and are paying too much in taxes...I don't care if you pay for Pakistan donkey sex changes!
Get a decent accountant and quit griping!
Seriously! I can't imagine anyone with a decent tax accountant griping about taxes..... I made good money last year and had no complaint with my tax bill....There are SO MANY WAYS to legitimately lower your tax burden to almost $0.....
Open your eyes fellas! It's right in front of you!
:D
I am far from stupid. I spend a serious amount of coin on wise purchases to reduce my tax burden, but in the end there is still something to be paid. In the end, taxes are the taking of money I earned to pay for something for the public good. I don't consider paying off the debts of others to be a public good and it appears that we differ in that opinion.
You've brought up the oil industry a couple times. If you took out massive amounts of loans to profit from an industry that is well known for it's drastic ups and downs, that is on you. My brother has been in the working in the oil industry for 30 years. He stepped in knowing that the oil industry was an inconsistent place to earn a living, but the pay was excellent. He paid off his loans, he took his first years of massive amounts of income and set himself up so he was safe from the inevitable lay offs. Those lay offs came, but because he bought rental property and had other income, he weathered the storm. Unlike his co-workers that bought boats, airplanes, vacations, hookers and blow.
To me looking back the last 10-15 years the cost of a higher education has turned into a greedy morass that has spiraled out of control, mostly fueled by federal student loans that throw wads of $$$ at children (Yes CHILDREN) to “Achieve their dreams”
That said there are more than a few factors at play here:
- American society as a whole has placed a social STIGMA on jobs/professions that require people to perform ANY type of physical labor, or get their hands dirty. Thus the push for the comfy 9-5 software/academic/admin jobs.
And yet there are many HVAC guys, plumbers, and ASE certified techs/mechanics out there that live more than comfortably in half million dollar homes...
- Colleges (Trade schools also) have indeed become greedy $$$$ sucking black holes for the admin of said institutions. They know that .Gov will dole out fat cash to naive young people with diminishing amounts of common sense, real world experience, and ever decreasing moral bearing. They shear these fat naive sheep for all their worth. The schools know the majority for the sheep will either drop out or take 1-2 years longer than “Planned” to attain their (Probably) worthless degree. If they take longer than planned there always seems to be a few more “Newly required classes” that need to be taken to obtain the degree that they were after to begin with - therefore costing more $$$ to pad the wallets of the educational admin pukes.
- Said institutions actively employ a plethora of ways to bend the truth and statistics of whatever field/degree path that Johnny/Jane find palatable and appealing. They are in the business of shoveling bullshit with a smile and selling you what you “Want”.
- 80% of the students/potential students and their “Best friends first/foremost” parents (That coddle/shield/enable their shitbird offspring) are clueless when it comes to choosing a decent career that actually provides solid monetary stability for the future.
- It has damn near become a cultural NECESSITY/right of passage for the newly freed children to blow $$$$ like there is no tomorrow whilst in collage - (New Mac book every year, clothes, cars, eating out every night, booze - etc, etc). This behavior is expected - as if its part and parcel of going to school post HS. Even if your kid has their head on straight the peer pressure alone is incredible to “Do as the Romans do...”. Its become an “American tradition”. “Play today - Pay tomorrow”.
- The industry and their “Switched on” HR/hiring departments (Idiots 85% of them). If you want a protected job/entrenched employment get into HR....
Anyhow - how stupid is it to require a Bachelor's degree for everything? A Bachelor's at this point is worth nothing - in most instances they might as well require a GED! And to boot it seems most of the time they don't even require a Bachelor's in an even remotely related field - just that “Youz gotta hav tha Bachelor'z or no job 4 U!!!”. I have seen people with 35 years plus in engineering management that currently work within the company get flat out rejected/told they don't qualify for the new position they have the exact time/grade and experience in. Only to then watch HR hire some nitwit with a BS in a 180deg non applicable field. THEN watch said new hire quit in less than 2 days and watch the whole process start over again.
- Employers are only as good as their HR hiring policies. If a given company allows their HR devision to run amok without any supervision reigning them in, that company is doomed until they straighten out their HR staff.
Ive seen ads targeted for GRADUATES that also require 3-5 years of experience in the field and 2 or more job references in a related field... WTF REALLY...? How in the hell is a newly minted 23 year old graduate supposed to EVER have those qualifications - its almost mathematically impossible. They've been in school full time for 4 years at a minimum! You might as well require Doctorates for every position including the Janitorial staff...
- Plus many more...
Heres my story:
At 15 I left home (1995] and struck out on my own due to serious family issues. During the next 2 years I attended the school of hard knocks and made some disastrous mistakes. I decided to get my act together and went to the local Army recruiter. He passed me on the the USAR recruiter who worked with me and I signed up.
Well, 3 months into basic my shoulder was injured and the .Mil bureaucracy decided that they were going to just let me languish in the SLAL (Sick,Lame,And Lazy) barracks and not fix me. After 2 months of that BS I pushed them to their limits and they admitted that the were not “Inclined” to fix my shoulder and that it “Prolly wasn't fixable”. I said F**k you I want out. Throughout the whole discharge process the admin called me a quitter and treated me like shit.
After coming home my dad died and I reconciled with the remainder of my family. It turned out I had 2 months left on my civilian insurance and that low and behold there WAS a well known procedure to repair my shoulder. I went under the knife, and after a year of learning how to use my right arm again I was 99.9% back to normal. After that I went back to school - took the tests and received my GED (Scoring VERY highly in everything but that bloody letters/#s cats & dogs math stuff).
After healing up getting my GED I followed my family half way across the country, bought a house, worked a ton of shitty jobs, and opened a business with my mother (A restaurant - never will I recommend owning/running one of THOES to anybody as long as I draw breath!)
When we had to shutter the restaurant I went to school (Gunsmith school - started in 2004). The admin there promised the moon and the stars - lied their ass off 1,000,000%. Job placement numbers were BS, Income $ projection the works all BS - unless you were a lucky .25% statistical anomaly.
I was stupid took out student loans and borrowed $$ and ran up 2 credit cards. (About $78K + in the hole total).
I was (And am) very good at gunsmithing. I moved back home in 2007 worked some more crap jobs, got a good job and was screwed out of it due to the internal family politics of said employer. (All the while still paying back the student loans - interest included).
In 2008 I got married and not 2 months later ended up going through more family turmoil (Legal this time) that screwed my life up good for the following year and change. (But was still paying on the Student loans +).
Finally in 2009 I landed a SOLID decent paying job that paired with my field of specialty like peas and carrots (Firearms/Marksmanship simulations) and WORKED MY ASS OFF al the while paying down the debits I had racked up like and idiot in school.
From this job I was recruited for a specialized overseas contract in the ME and lived in Beirut for 3 years doing my dream job and paid EVERYTHING off. Before I left that job (God I miss that job:cray:) we bought a house and 6 acres in bourbon country and was again back in debit - but in a better way and in a “Better kind of debit”.
Since then life has been an adventure - employment has been rough from time to time, and yes like most Americans I have much more unsecured debit than I am comfortable with. That said - that’s all on me and I DON’T EXPECT ANYBODY ELSE to cry for me and or bail me out if things go sideways for me.
I chose a career path that aligned with my hobby/interests and that choice almost led me to a life of mediocre pay at best and has almost completely ruined firearms for me in general.
Between working grueling crap jobs, dealing with terrible sociopathic/narcissistic bosses and employers and ALWAYS keeping my eyes peeled for a BETTER opportunity PLUS a bit of luck I’ve done OK.
In the grand scheme of things I ended up being in the top .5% - 1% of people in my VERY narrow and specific profession/field, and there are still MANY days in the week I want to say to hell with it and get a job pushing a broom somewhere.
As far as loan forgiveness goes NO - just no. Too many people out there have made it a CAREER to stay in school sucking down loan $$$ just to putter around aimlessly in the world of academia so they DO NOT have to actually make a choice and get a REAL job. I’ve known more than a few 35 year old + folks doing this very thing.
Or people picked stupid flowery/slick/easy degrees to which there was little to no potential employment opportunities. I know it sounds cliche, but “Doing your homework” first before choosing a degree is kinda a no brainer right?
And yes the whole (Insert ball focused/related sports club name here) that is the primary focus of and literally drives all aspects of certain institutions of higher education is to me beyond asinine. I get tradition, but things have progressed in a stupid direction - and to the highest degree.
A few things they don’t teach you in school:
- Life is not fair.
- There is never a guarantee that you will get your dream job, and or dream salary just because you finished their illustrious degree program.
- People in the workplace, in general are self serving. They have worries of their own and when push comes to shove will either step on your back and balls to get ahead or will resort to lying, cheating and sabotage to throw you under the bus and make themselves more appealing to the higher ups - even if it doesn't result in advancement “Just to make a social distinction”.
- Life is not fair.
- You may realize that your chosen career path is not what you expected at best, and something you inherently LOATHE at worst.
- You can only work so much overtime before Uncle Sam takes almost all of it, or you work yourself into ill health, or your home life goes all to hell.
- A line of credit/credit limit does NOT = available assets to spend.
- People are all deep down animals.
- People can, and will discriminate against a potential employee for almost ANY reason - seriously... I once witnessed THE most qualified “Had is shit wired tight” applicants for the given job NOT get the job where I used to work just because he was a casual Ravens fan - and my supervisor who was interviewing him was a die hard Steelers fan... I mean WFT over.?
- Life is not fair.
- Nobody worth associating with actually cares what car you drive, brand of sunglasses you are wearing, whether or not that’s THIS years LV handbag or last years - etc.
- That the “Jonses” everybody seems to try and be keeping up with are screwed up and have troubles of their own. Picturesque does NOT = stable or happy.
Oh and Life is not fair...
All these Huge Facts
BROTHER!
https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/aa335d97117868d2b84cedff719cc8830f32919be04279e76b1107aa78231e64_1.jpg
I literally headbanged.
BROTHER!
https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/aa335d97117868d2b84cedff719cc8830f32919be04279e76b1107aa78231e64_1.jpg
I literally headbanged.
APB may not post often, but damn...
APB may not post often, but damn...
That should be required reading for all high school graduates.
Adrenaline_6
05-18-21, 09:48
Points of correction
They airline industry tanked in ‘91 with Eastern and PanAm both going out of business. I graduated in ‘93 also and sounds like from the same school.
Piedmont and US Air did not go under.
US Air bought Piedmont in a leveraged by-out in ‘89 and did almost wreck both companies in the process.
US Air would later merge with America West in 2005 and then in 2015 US Airways bought American Airlines. (AA did not buy USAir as many believe)
Long time ago and I'm sure those brain cells died in my feeble mind.
Riddle Diddle Kite School?
Yup......
LOL...I have a degree from them myself that I don't use.
That should be required reading for all high school graduates.
Yep, that was next level mic drop shit. He should be teaching reality 101 at all high schools.
My story: graduated near the top of my class in high school and was awarded a large scholarship from the state to attend Clemson, which was the only school I applied to. It covered over half of my tuition and room/board.
Well, I learned the hard way that being smart in high school and not having to study doesn't prepare you well for college. I wasn't sure how to study outside of class. In high school, assigned homework and class work was enough for me to learn and do well. In college, most of the class time was spent watching, listening, and taking notes, not doing practice work.
I learn best by doing, not by watching or listening, and since we didn't have assigned homework, it was difficult for me to learn and take time to study what we had taken notes on in class. That, coupled with freedom to spend my time as I wanted, i.e. not studying, caused my grades to drop below a 3.0 that first year, causing me to lose my scholarship. I had the option of getting a lesser scholarship back, but had to bring my overall GPA above a 3.0. I graduated with a 2.97...haunts me to this day.
Anyways, by the time I graduated with a B.S. in civil engineering in 2009, I owed about $48,000. It was not a good time for a new grad to be looking for a job in the civil engineering field with nearly $50,000 in debt. I had deferred payments for 6 months after I graduated, but it took me nearly 2 years to eventually find a job in my field. We had 64 folks that graduated from the civil engineering program that year. 34 of them went back to grad school, 4 of them had jobs lined up at graduation, and the rest of us were still searching.
Thankfully, my parents allowed me to live at home while I worked various low paying jobs. This allowed me to make the minimum payments on my loans and be able to save a little bit. It was a very stressful time in my life due to the pressures of finding a job and seeing my friends in other fields getting jobs and being successful. Not to mention wanting to propose to my girlfriend at the time (now wife) and not feeling that I could adequately support her. She didn't need it, but I still felt bad about that.
Anyways, while unloading trucks part time at Best Buy I worked with a civil engineer that worked for a local developer that had cut their hours. He got me hooked up with a firm in the SC lowcountry, which eventually led to a job offer in 2011. I went from making $10/hr to a $46,000 salary overnight, which was quite the relief. I married my wife later that year, who was working as a NICU nurse and had graduated with no debt. She was also making a good bit more than me, as she worked full time at one hospital and part time at another.
While living there, we purchased and paid off my truck within a year while making extra payments on my student loan and saving for a house. In 2014 I was offered a job back home, which I took. We moved back home and bought a house later in 2014. We continued making extra payments on the student loan and had it paid off by 2016. We then had all other non house debt paid off by 2017/2018.
I guess I've said all that to say a loan that's an investment into a good career can be a boon later in life. However, it's also important to note that college kids are dumb. They may be book smart, but they're dumb, naïve, and ignorant. I just justified it by telling myself I'd pay those loans off later and it was a problem for future me to deal with. I knew I'd have a well paying job and those loans wouldn't be a problem. I never fathomed it'd take almost two years before I found a job in my field.
Well, by the time the loans were paid off, my wife and I had paid over $65,000. Future (then present) me wanted to go back and strangle college me. It would have been so simple to avoid all of that debt by maintaining my GPA and putting in just a little bit more effort. It's one of my biggest regrets. As a young couple starting out, we sure could have used that $65,000. I do recognize that this wouldn't have been possible without my wife, who graciously never brought it up or dogged me for it.
hotrodder636
05-20-21, 07:09
This sums the entire subject up perfectly, including the loan ‘forgiveness’.
To me looking back the last 10-15 years the cost of a higher education has turned into a greedy morass that has spiraled out of control, mostly fueled by federal student loans that throw wads of $$$ at children (Yes CHILDREN) to “Achieve their dreams”
Oh and Life is not fair...
Averageman
05-20-21, 16:37
I'm so proud of myself for putting my Son's College money away very early. Every cent of what his Mom sent for Child Support went straight to the His College fund. 17-18 years of that and you've got a nest egg.
Btw, he has maintained his grades to the point where he is either "Dean's" or "President's" list every semester. So the grants and scholarships keep rolling in.
@ABNAK - I made a cunty post a few pages back, didn’t seem to get to you too much but I don’t know what I was on there. Trying to say the above but did it poorly.
Meh, it's all good.
Pol-Sci, eh? I LOVE history and would have really been into a degree in that, but other than being a teacher (or "checking the bachelor degree box") it probably wouldn't have led me much of anywhere. I was only a year out of the Army and was going to use my VEAP (forerunner of the New GI Bill) to do something to make a reliable living. My mom, an RN, told me "Go into the medical field, people are always going to get sick". While I wasn't "into" medical stuff, I don't regret doing it in the big picture.
My wife is an RN and I am an RT. We live comfortably, not Club Med-level but not complaining either. I only have an Associate's Degree (but hold two professional credentials) while my wife is what they used to call a "diploma nurse", meaning she has no degree per se but is credentialed as an RN. I don't think they have AD RT programs anymore and certainly there are no "diploma" RN programs these days.....I graduated from the RT course in 1991 and she graduated her RN course in 1992. We're both a little burnt after three decades but I guess you get that way with just about anything. I have managed to get a M-F, 7a-3p job and she still works 7p-7a nights.
I still stand by my assertion that you don't have to love what you do but certainly be able to tolerate it. I guess that's why they call it "work". :rolleyes: If you are among the minority that makes a good living doing what you absolutely love doing then more power to ya!
I see engineering degrees mentioned in the last few posts in this thread. I would have thought those degrees would be in among the STEM-type, in-demand jobs. Lots of math, calculations, physics, etc. I guess it depends on what specific engineering field you get into.
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