View Full Version : Pistol red dot zeroing
I finally put a red dot on a pistol and just got back from the range trying to get it zeroed in. It was an indoor range and I was sitting in a foldable chair while resting the pistol with an extended magazine on the "bench". It was easy enough to get it dialed in, but I noticed that when I went to shoot it normally it seemed to be way off. I was then adjusting it while just shooting normally and seemed to get it pretty close. I went back to try shooting it rested on the bench to see how it compared and it was way off. Are my eyes that bad? Is that normal? Should I re-zero using the bench method and just adjust how I shoot it? Most of the videos I've watched online for zeroing have the pistol rested on a bench.
I feel very stupid even asking this.
Thanks :o
Trust zero from bench.
You are chasing your tail attempting adjustment firing “freestyle” unless you’re an advanced pistolero.
You didn’t mention how/where you experienced group shift from standing.
If you’re a right hand dominant shooter I’d imagine you’re probably hitting low left, which means you’re “anticipating recoil”/ milking the shot. This is agonizingly common.
You're not. I've noticed a poi/poa shifts in myself using that method. Try just resting your arms right behind yout wrists on a bag to steady yourself. This negated the change for me.
Red Dots have parallax.
If your eye is directly behind/centered with scope/dot, there will be no shift in POI-rather benched, standing, prone, whatever.
You're not. I've noticed a poi/poa shifts in myself using that method. Try just resting your arms right behind yout wrists on a bag to steady yourself. This negated the change for me.
This resting method has worked very well for me.
I've zeroed only two pistol red dots. I start at 10 yards and go to 25 after that. They both shoot poa standing and benched for me.
I hold my head up behind the gun the same way I would if I was holding the gun standing. Or at least as close to similar. If you're linings your eye straight behind the gun and closing the other eye to sight it in and then shooting normal with both eyes open maybe that's your issue.
I've zeroed only two pistol red dots. I start at 10 yards and go to 25 after that. They both shoot poa standing and benched for me.
I hold my head up behind the gun the same way I would if I was holding the gun standing. Or at least as close to similar. If you're linings your eye straight behind the gun and closing the other eye to sight it in and then shooting normal with both eyes open maybe that's your issue.
I was keeping both eyes open while zeroing form the bench, but I'm thinking my head might have been lined up a bit differently. The chair height and "bench" made it a bit awkward. I'll probably go back tomorrow and tinker some more.
Thanks for the insights everyone.
Can also be a result of a heavy trigger pull. From the bench a heavy trigger weight does not affect the pistol much as its supported well, but some of the force applied to the trigger may shift the pistol just a hair.
Try dry firing and see if the dot moves towards where your standing live fire group happens to print.
Mark
Trust zero from bench.
You are chasing your tail attempting adjustment firing “freestyle” unless you’re an advanced pistolero.
You didn’t mention how/where you experienced group shift from standing.
If you’re a right hand dominant shooter I’d imagine you’re probably hitting low left, which means you’re “anticipating recoil”/ milking the shot. This is agonizingly common.
Absolutely! That essentially sets your "mechanical zero", i.e. the true one for your weapon/sight combo. Get that straight first then work on making your "freestyle" work fit the mechanical zero. Applies to long guns too.
One thing you should practice is calling your shots. When you pull the trigger see/ remember where the dot was last. And then see where it hits. Shoot and See targets help a lot.
I am more accurate free hand than benched, but don't see much poi shift.
Zero at 10yds or further. I use 25 personally.
As said, your skill level will determine what you should do.
The gun's reaction to recoil will change when rested compared to off-hand. This will have an effect on POI. I don't rest the gun on a bench, I rest my wrists and hold the gun in hand. It isn't dead steady, but close enough and there will be no change in POI when shooting off-hand.
I was keeping both eyes open while zeroing form the bench, but I'm thinking my head might have been lined up a bit differently. The chair height and "bench" made it a bit awkward. I'll probably go back tomorrow and tinker some more.
Thanks for the insights everyone.
By any chance do you have astigmatism in your dominant eye? When you shoot from the bench, is you eye positioning/angle different? When you shoot from the bench, are your group sizes the same or smaller as freehand, just in a different place?
I have astigmatism in both eyes, and find if i shoot prone or from a bench and i look more through the "top" of my eyes, or essentially looking up, my groups are several inches high. If I lift my head some, the group settles back to the same place.
We zero sitting with as heavy a bag as possible. Then slow fire standing to confirm. Have not seen a need to adjust or correct between positions.
I just took a modern samurai project course. Scott the instructor is a legend in the pistol red dot world. With that said he had us zero our pistols at 10 yards standing up in a 2" square. He said if we are good enough to shoot freehand at 25 yards we can go ahead and zero at that range if we think it's necessary. Also at 25 yards a 10 yards zero means the bullet will impact at .5" high. He did explain why we zeroed standing up. He also said 10 yards zero vs 25 yards zero is the new 9mm vs 45 debate lol.
Just some food for thought.
I think there is merit to almost every approach...except the one where you obsessively blow through a hundred rounds of ammo trying to fine tune the gun and the one where you blast through a hundred rounds of ammo because you can't shoot a group.
Jedi is on the right track with the 10 yard standing zero. And like he says, if you can shoot, the zero doesn't really matter and if you can't shoot, the zero doesn't really matter.
Informative thread.
I have a new Meprolight Microdot quick-detach RDS mounted on a HKP30SK. Haven't fired it with the new sights / optic yet so it's "out of service" until I get them both zeroed.
My question is, because my optic is rather high (1 and 3/16 inches from center of glass to center of bore) what range should I set zero?
25 yds or 50 yds, perhaps?
Informative thread.
I have a new Meprolight Microdot quick-detach RDS mounted on a HKP30SK. Haven't fired it with the new sights / optic yet so it's "out of service" until I get them both zeroed.
My question is, because my optic is rather high (1 and 3/16 inches from center of glass to center of bore) what range should I set zero?
25 yds or 50 yds, perhaps?
What bullet weight? With a 124JHP a 25 yard zero will have you about 1/2" low @ 50 and a 50 yard zero will have you about 1/2" high @ 25 so it really won't matter a whole lot. FWIW, a 10 yard zero would have you about 2" high @ 50
What bullet weight? With a 124JHP a 25 yard zero will have you about 1/2" low @ 50 and a 50 yard zero will have you about 1/2" high @ 25 so it really won't matter a whole lot. FWIW, a 10 yard zero would have you about 2" high @ 50
Well, most of my practice ammo is 124 gr. My carry ammo is 68 gr but due to a combination of bullet length (all copper) and recoil (I guess?!) they somehow shoot to the same point of aim. No shit! I was surprised too, when I kept reading about other people having the same experience with the Lehigh bullets. Sure enough, same point of aim. I'm only guessing why.
But basically yea, 124 gr.
I see. So, I'll probably do 25 yds. Thanks!
So, I'll probably do 25 yds. Thanks!
That is my goto for 9mm, 45 and 22LR pistols. It works pretty much regardless of sight height.
Informative thread.
I have a new Meprolight Microdot quick-detach RDS mounted on a HKP30SK. Haven't fired it with the new sights / optic yet so it's "out of service" until I get them both zeroed.
My question is, because my optic is rather high (1 and 3/16 inches from center of glass to center of bore) what range should I set zero?
25 yds or 50 yds, perhaps?
Height over bore and zero distance have nothing in common. 50 yards is extreme for a pistol zero. 25 is very common with 10-15 coming strong behind.
Informative thread.
I have a new Meprolight Microdot quick-detach RDS mounted on a HKP30SK. Haven't fired it with the new sights / optic yet so it's "out of service" until I get them both zeroed.
My question is, because my optic is rather high (1 and 3/16 inches from center of glass to center of bore) what range should I set zero?
25 yds or 50 yds, perhaps?
50 yd zero shod be good. It would be .7" high around 30yds
Height over bore and zero distance have nothing in common. 50 yards is extreme for a pistol zero. 25 is very common with 10-15 coming strong behind.
True for your primary zero, but height above bore absolutely affects your down range, or secondary, zero. Your primary, or near zero, will be at whatever distance you decide, but the trajectory arc increases with sight height without question.
Well, most of my practice ammo is 124 gr. My carry ammo is 68 gr but due to a combination of bullet length (all copper) and recoil (I guess?!) they somehow shoot to the same point of aim. No shit! I was surprised to, when I kept reading about other people having the same experience with the Lehigh bullets. Sure enough, same point of aim. I'm only guessing why.
But basically yea, 124 gr.
I see. So, I'll probably do 25 yds. Thanks!
I’ve found that 115gr+p+ and 147gr shoot to same POI for me, at least out to 25, which I found surprising, since 124 does not. I do my zero at 25 yds, and can hit C zone at triple that with either load. I don’t think HOB matters much at pistol distances, except for POA on hostage targets up close, and that offset is small. The majority of my pistol practice occurs at 7yds, with 3, 5, 10, 25, 4, and 50yds as runner ups, in that order. I consider 75 and 100 with a pistol as screwing around or stunting. I shoot 60-75 when chronoing, and up to 100 when playing HORSE or PIG.
I zero double kneeling, resting the dustcover on a bench indoors, or lightly pressing or resting my flashlight into/onto a barrier.
I think zeroing at 10yds would be perfectly reasonable, as well, and is probably the best way to do it for someone that cannot yet make 99% or better into the A zone or -0 at 25yds.
The more one practices and dry fires with a dot, the more precise he will become. You can always walk a zero out or confirm further out as you improve.
True for your primary zero, but height above bore absolutely affects your down range, or secondary, zero. Your primary, or near zero, will be at whatever distance you decide, but the trajectory arc increases with sight height without question.
What zero are you running on a pistol optic that it affects your secondary zero?
What zero are you running on a pistol optic that it affects your secondary zero?
I hunt with handguns and my 100 yard POI is just as important as my 25 yard POI, or moreso.
I hunt with handguns and my 100 yard POI is just as important as my 25 yard POI, or moreso.
What round are you using that a 25 yard zero has a second point that far down range?
What round are you using that a 25 yard zero has a second point that far down range?
44 Magnum, 357 Magnum, 45 Colt, 357 Maximum, 460 Rowland, 480 Ruger, 7-30 Waters, 30-30 AI, and a few others you probably have never heard of.
Not all are zeroed @ 25 yards, but primary and secondary zero are critical to all.
Zero is important to me.
If I feel I can put a shot through an eye socket or hit that foot because it's the only target available I want to get that hit not miss because I forgot that at 30 yds I'm hitting 2 inches above the dot because I set a 5 yd zero.
But it sounds like any zero between 10 and 50 yds is probably fine for a 9mm concealed carry pistol. I'm going to do 25 yds.
44 Magnum, 357 Magnum, 45 Colt, 357 Maximum, 460 Rowland, 480 Ruger, 7-30 Waters, 30-30 AI, and a few others you probably have never heard of.
Not all are zeroed @ 25 yards, but primary and secondary zero are critical to all.
What pistol do you have chambered in 7-30 Waters? Because those calibers aren’t anywhere close to the same class as what the OP and follow on posts are about.
Inkslinger
04-17-22, 19:07
44 Magnum, 357 Magnum, 45 Colt, 357 Maximum, 460 Rowland, 480 Ruger, 7-30 Waters, 30-30 AI, and a few others you probably have never heard of.
Not all are zeroed @ 25 yards, but primary and secondary zero are critical to all.
Are you using a RDS on those to hunt with?
Are you using a RDS on those to hunt with?
Some. Some irons. Some scoped.
What pistol do you have chambered in 7-30 Waters? Because those calibers aren’t anywhere close to the same class as what the OP and follow on posts are about.
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