Interesting U.S. Army Labs Study of M4 Carbine With - or - Without VFG Device [Archive]

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dpast32

05-18-21, 16:38

Ok Folks, Here's an item I came across the other day, & debated as to Posting it. Yes, it 'may' be of interest to some folks, yet not so much to others. So, judge for yourself. It does appear somewhat in-depth, yet remains noncommittal as to which method is actually better. To me, I think it leaves the decision up to each individual user.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a612939.pdf

Sorry, it's apparently too large to attach here, so hopefully the original link will function.

Best, Dom P.

titsonritz

05-18-21, 16:48

TL;DR - the bottom line...

Consequently, perhaps the use of a vertical grip should be left at the discretion of each user.

Diamondback

05-18-21, 18:04

Reads to me more like "How We Had Lots Of Fun Shooting Up Lots of Army Ammo on Army Weapons And Got PAID To Do It" to me... sweet gig if you can get it. :)

bikemike555

05-20-21, 09:00

Reads to me more like "How We Had Lots Of Fun Shooting Up Lots of Army Ammo on Army Weapons And Got PAID To Do It" to me... sweet gig if you can get it. :)That kind of describes Operation Desert Storm, too.

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DMTJAGER

05-20-21, 09:30

That kind of describes Operation Desert Storm, too.

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ESPECIALLY if you were a defence contractor at that time.

There was and might still be as I no longer get any newspapers haven't for years and only subscribe to the Epoch Times now, but when I did get the Chitcago Tribune (WAY back 17 years ago when I still lived in TPROI and now I live in IN) there was a cartoon in it called "The Wizard Of Id" and in the comic the all mighty god of the pagan Huns and or will have you entity in it was known as the 'Great Nebakanezer" Who from this point on I will refer to as "Mr. N"

One days strip featured the leader of the Huns, the sworn enemy of the kingdom of Id kneeling before his pagan God the Great Nebakanezer offering up his immortal soul in exchange for immeasurable wealth.

First Mr.N offered to make him a prince in exchange for his soul to which the Hun obviously quite disappointed replied no, no, a price is not nearly rich enough in exchange for my soul.........
Then Mr. N offered to make him a King again the Hun replied NO NO STILL not rich enough.........
Next Mr N offered to make the Hun a Sultan and again the Hun replied no no NOOO still not rich enough.........

Then Mr. N replied "Well now we have a problem, as there just aren't that many openings for defence contractors these days"...........................................

It took me more than a few years to fully grasp the utter truth of that satire.

Diamondback

05-20-21, 09:34

That kind of describes Operation Desert Storm, too.

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I wouldn't call Two Way Range situations "fun"... and I bet neither would the dead and wounded, their squadmates or their families.

tanksoldier

05-20-21, 16:05

I wouldn't call Two Way Range situations "fun"... and I bet neither would the dead and wounded, their squadmates or their families.

I know I had a blast... both times.

556Cliff

05-22-21, 21:17

Circle_10

05-25-21, 06:12

I don't like VFGs myself... I thought I would, but I just don't. They're annoying, they catch on things, they add unnecessary weight (although usually not much). Really, what's left for my to like? I like angled foregrips more, but sill not enough to use one on any of my own guns. I just like a nice, smooth, snag free plastic handguard these days (love the old A1 handguards).

I went through a stage where I was putting VFGs on everything. I was even doing “field expedient” style VFGs from sawed-off A1 and A2 grips for my retro carbines. Eventually I started getting sick of them and at this point I’ve whittled it down to the point of only having VFGs on my two rifles that have lights on them all the time (I have other guns that don’t normally have lights, but do have mounting points so that one could be easily slapped on if need be), I find the VFG helps position my hand better to activate the tailcap button with my thumb.

AndyLate

05-25-21, 08:44

Mysteryman

05-25-21, 13:43

Full disclosure - the only VFG I use is on an "M4" build.

They have the VFG mounted near the rear of the handguard and some, if not all, of the testers used the "magwell" grip on the bare carbine. Did they actually expect to see a difference?

Andy

I noticed that as well. Full retard grip on the vert grip and magwell holds were illustrated as the with and without vert grip methods. The test was deeply flawed, however the results were not surprising.

Vert grips are more about light/laser activation (hand position specifically) and heat mitigation/comfort under sustained fire.

e z money

05-25-21, 23:14

I like a VFG for use with a light. I'm a lefty. My thumb is can easily hit the button on the light the way it is set up. Im an old guy. When I first saw VFG on rifles, I thought it was one of the dumbest things ever. They aren't as bad as I thought.
65839

99cobra2881

05-27-21, 23:15

My first AR still has a magpul vfg now I use it more like a handstop with a modified c clamp hand placement with my left thumb over the top pic rail and my remaining fingers partially around the bottom of the rail and the front of the vfg. Only when I was new to the gun did I fully grip the vfg with a beer can grip.

Newest build has a magpul hand stop installed with a modbutton lite positioned so my natural thumb placement lands directly in front of it on the top pic rail. Doing this prevents an accidental light discharge as I have to reposition my thumb back onto the modbutton lite to activate the scout wml.