View Full Version : Clones question
I bought a large amount of Aimpoint clones to sell and wonder if there will be a market for them? These look just like the real deal and aren't for airsoft. Any Ideas? I have thought about gun shows but the tables are expensive. As well I have thought about ebay but have had bad problems with them in the past. Maybe a myspace page? LOL
I have a better idea. Get a BFH and smash all those POS clones into little pieces. 99% really don't care for crap like that here. On the other hand maybe AR15.com guys will buy them up.
I have a better idea. Get a BFH and smash all those POS clones into little pieces. 99% really don't care for crap like that here. On the other hand maybe AR15.com guys will buy them up.
Try some kava kava, it helps with stress.
I doubt you're going to get much help on this subject here... Many of us have to depend on our equipment with our lives - and the idea of someone spreading around junky lookalike optics is offensive to most. Only people who don't know any better will buy them, and could be ignorant enough to depend on one someday, and could pay dearly for it.
Take them to ebay and I hope you have the integrity to let people know that it's not a good idea to use these optics for anything other than target shooting or hunting. I feel it would be very dishonorable to try and sell those to someone looking for a home defense or duty weapon - I'm not saying that you will do that, just giving you my 2 cents.
I doubt you're going to get much help on this subject here... Many of us have to depend on our equipment with our lives - and the idea of someone spreading around junky lookalike optics is offensive to most. Only people who don't know any better will buy them, and could be ignorant enough to depend on one someday, and could pay dearly for it.
Take them to ebay and I hope you have the integrity to let people know that it's not a good idea to use these optics for anything other than target shooting or hunting. I feel it would be very dishonorable to try and sell those to someone looking for a home defense or duty weapon - I'm not saying that you will do that, just giving you my 2 cents.
Thank you for your reasoned and calm input. As for help probably not on the forum. Anyone who isn't bright enough to have a real battle tested sight on thier piece probably shouldn't be carrying a weapon into a fire fight at all. If someone is offended than they have the problem. If someone was trying to buy a BMW and saw a little Japanese car right next to it on the lot do you really think they would say "Hmm, that one's 45'000 and that one is red and only 12,000 and go for the Honda instead of the BMW? And do you think the person trying to buy the BMW would go into the car lot and complain about the Honda being on the lot? Listen I have read about clones on THIS sight. When someone states "Clone" it means Copy, dup, replica, fake. What's so hard to navigate about that? Ever seen the Bushnell Holosight? Made by Eotech, with out the hood. Or the Burris XTS135? Made is S. Korea by Dong Inc. It seems that more people have read this post than replied to it which means it's a HONDA to them. And lastly I do explain what these are as does the title (CLONE) . I think most of this strir is a matter of keeping up appearences and keeping up with the Jones's. Thanks for taking enough time out of your busy "combat" days to find a computer and respond to this blastfemus thread.
So you've got a bunch of scopes, made by someone who blatantly stole someone else's design without paying them a penny for it, and you want advice on how to sell them?
Pretty much every response I can think of begins with an obscenity and goes downhill from there.
Personally, I hope you get stuck with the lot of them and lose your ass in the process.
So you've got a bunch of scopes, made by someone who blatantly stole someone else's design without paying them a penny for it, and you want advice on how to sell them?
Pretty much every response I can think of begins with an obscenity and goes downhill from there.
Personally, I hope you get stuck with the lot of them and lose your ass in the process.
Don't sweat the pertty stuff ,and don't pet the sweaty stuff.
Don Robison
12-08-08, 19:41
Try some kava kava, it helps with stress.
And a BFH will take care of those "clones". :p:D:eek:
Outlander Systems
12-08-08, 19:43
Unfortunately, not.
Reputable manufacturers such as Bushnell, for example, have optics that aren't held together with electrical tape, offer a warranty, and have a reputation to uphold; as well their more budget-friendly optics actually work, and are roughly the same price as a ClonepointŪ. When these factors are taken in together, I could obtain an optic that I know will work under certain circumstances, or a ClonepointŪ which is an absolute and total forgery, and copyright infringement.
For example, I could buy this optic for approximately the same price as the ClonepointŪ, and if it breaks, there's a manufacturer I can send it back to.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=18751&highlight=bushnell+torture
As well, most of the folks here either rely on their rifle for defense of their lives, their reputations(in the sake of the competitive shooters), or folks who believe that freedom requires constant vigilance.
Anyone with a $1000+ to spend on a rifle can afford to get a quality optic. As well, for the price of a ClonepointŪ, a buyer could get a very high quality set of backup irons.
All of the above is the weakest argument for buying an alternative.
Another argument is that the faceless Chinese sweatshop labour who pumps these out, doesn't have a quality-control standard, due to the fact that you're essentially buying illegal goods (intellectual property right infringement). So you're SOL on ever sending it back for maintenence or repair.
An even better argument is the fact that the amount you'd spend in feeding the cheap-o knockoff optics batteries, would have covered the difference in buying a real Aimpoint, and not even needing batteries but once or twice a decade or so. The battery savings alone would more than cover the spread of difference in the initial purchase price.
And, lastly, the most important reason of all is that the swindlers, crooks, and theives that manufacture these things, would never, EVER, do ANYTHING like this:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19777&highlight=magpul+goodness
A lot of us here are proud to be Americans, and take steps to avoid sending any money toward Communist China as much as possible, ESPECIALLY when it comes to firearms, and the related bolt-on items.
One more reason?
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9881/fakedisassembledlh8.jpg
Unfortunately, not.
Reputable manufacturers such as Bushnell, for example, have optics that aren't held together with electrical tape, offer a warranty, and have a reputation to uphold; as well their more budget-friendly optics actually work, and are roughly the same price as a ClonepointŪ. When these factors are taken in together, I could obtain an optic that I know will work under certain circumstances, or a ClonepointŪ which is an absolute and total forgery, and copyright infringement.
For example, I could buy this optic for approximately the same price as the ClonepointŪ, and if it breaks, there's a manufacturer I can send it back to.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=18751&highlight=bushnell+torture
As well, most of the folks here either rely on their rifle for defense of their lives, their reputations(in the sake of the competitive shooters), or folks who believe that freedom requires constant vigilance.
Anyone with a $1000+ to spend on a rifle can afford to get a quality optic. As well, for the price of a ClonepointŪ, a buyer could get a very high quality set of backup irons.
All of the above is the weakest argument for buying an alternative.
Another argument is that the faceless Chinese sweatshop labour who pumps these out, doesn't have a quality-control standard, due to the fact that you're essentially buying illegal goods (intellectual property right infringement). So you're SOL on ever sending it back for maintenence or repair.
An even better argument is the fact that the amount you'd spend in feeding the cheap-o knockoff optics batteries, would have covered the difference in buying a real Aimpoint, and not even needing batteries but once or twice a decade or so. The battery savings alone would more than cover the spread of difference in the initial purchase price.
And, lastly, the most important reason of all is that the swindlers, crooks, and theives that manufacture these things, would never, EVER, do ANYTHING like this:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19777&highlight=magpul+goodness
A lot of us here are proud to be Americans, and take steps to avoid sending any money toward Communist China as much as possible, ESPECIALLY when it comes to firearms, and the related bolt-on items.
One more reason?
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9881/fakedisassembledlh8.jpg
Wow that was petty intense! Did you have that stuff, just sitting there on disk for just such an occasion. I didn't read most of it but the pictures were GREAT!
Outlander Systems
12-08-08, 20:13
It's from an old thread on TOS. I think it was a debate, similar to what we're having here, only it dragged on for...ev...er.
I know they have rubber seals but I need to pop one of these open and look. .... lol
PALADIN-hgwt
12-08-08, 21:00
Besides copying the external appearance of a legitimate Aimpoint, DO YOUR CLONES SAY AIMPOINT on the side?
Paladin
"Pretty much every response I can think of begins with an obscenity and goes downhill from there."
Rofl, +1
Where's billy goat gruff when ya need him? ;p
Meet me on the corner of 87th street and Pound Sand Blvd and I'll take all of them from you! (before the ban)
You name the price!
Meet me on the corner of 87th street and Pound Sand Blvd and I'll take all of them from you! (before the ban)
You name the price!
Had to look up the term.. "pound sand"..you rascally kids!! Got to love today's kids..so many nifty sayings what with the Americana Idol and the video do dad's.. Not to mention with the living in thier parents home's till they are 30... Great stuff.. "Pound Sand"! Awseome dude! How about I just give them to ya!! what with the earings and the pechula and so on.. So colorful you are! I bet you have some groovy green hair! Do you have that video game thumb unjury? How neato. :) I'll have to remember "pound sand" When my boy comes home on leave. I learned YO Yo and wusup, and a few others he wasn't impressed with, ....oh yeah "that's really sick..or sic? I think it means neat or cool etc..
If you don't want to know the answer you shouldn't ask the question. Your boy will already know pound sand....since the military is first place I heard the term used. I have a feeling you aren't much older than many of us here actually, so you might want to check the attitude at the door.
Edited to add. Even if you are older learning is a life long thing maybe you should dis engage your soup cooler and try reading some posts on the forum first.
SeriousStudent
12-08-08, 23:11
ITBL.
If you don't want to know the answer you shouldn't ask the question. Your boy will already know pound sand....since the military is first place i heard the term used. I have a feeling you aren't much older than many of us here actually, so you might want to check the attitude at the door.
That I didn't have to pause my game boy to answer this thread. As for my kid, I'm sure he does know the term.. I'd be showing off like my WWII pop did when he used the term awsome with me in the early 80's ,, Now how old is someome who says pound sand? about as old as my kid..No more than 23-24.. By Then they realize cool sayings are kind of a waste of time and sound stupid.
Be sure to get up every once in a while and stretch. Also when you eat too many doritos and drink too much pop it will give you gas.
Thanks for taking enough time out of your busy "combat" days to find a computer and respond to this blastfemus thread.
What is "blasfemus"? Is that sorta like blasphemous?
I'd say......3 hrs. :cool:
What is "blasfemus"? Is that sorta like blasphemous?
I'd say......3 hrs. :cool:
It means i didn't spell it right because my hands are more used to wreching on engines . Did I leave anything else out? You guys must get an email evertime a post happens.
thopkins22
12-08-08, 23:46
Dude. Your father was in WW2, presumably before you were born...then the term "pound sand" predates you. http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/go-pound-sand.html
I'm not sure this thread has "bodacious staying power.";)
If you don't want to know the answer you shouldn't ask the question. Your boy will already know pound sand....since the military is first place I heard the term used. I have a feeling you aren't much older than many of us here actually, so you might want to check the attitude at the door.
Edited to add. Even if you are older learning is a life long thing maybe you should dis engage your "soup cooler" and try reading some posts on the forum first.
Another neato quote..
How bout this Jack.. You don't know me or how long I had to hump my 782 gear or where I served. You don't know where I trained, my outfit or anything about me. You just think I am some old guy that want's to sell cheap chinese ripoffs to un suspecting maggots. You're wrong. I didn't do what I had to do to let some snotty nosed kids give me flak. You guys seem to be a bunch of posers who think if they spend 500 bucks on an optic it will make them stand taller? Listen, they didn't even half the gear or cool optics my kid was issued when I was In ,and we did just fine. So get off your high horse
Semper Fi Jack.
Dude. Your father was in WW2, presumably before you were born...then the term "pound sand" predates you. http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/go-pound-sand.html
I'm not sure this thread has "bodacious staying power.";)
Listen dude I heard "ground pounders" But if it did exist.. And I really don't give a crap weather it did or not webster, He was 45 when I was born and had dropped all of his kid sayings before I was born. But I thank you from the bottom of my heart for looking it up.
Plus he wasn't from the UK, thank God. (.phrases.org.UK)
SeriousStudent
12-09-08, 00:02
You use the term 782 gear. Were you a Marine?
There is another former Marine on this board. His username is FJB. He's familiar with red dot optics, and how to market them. Why don't you contact him? I am sure he could give you a large number of ideas on how best to sell the items you have.
I do have a question for you. Have you noticed that all the reactions you have received have been unfavorable? No one has offered you a way to sell them here? In fact, you would have likely had as much luck passing fake twenties at a Secret Service convention?
That's a clue.
It really do think you have confused M4Carbine with another firearms website. And this is not that site.
thopkins22
12-09-08, 00:12
Plus he wasn't from the UK, thank God. (.phrases.org.UK)
From the page linked..."The phrase originated in the US and although common there, especially the midwest states, it isn't frequently heard in other countries."
You use the term 782 gear. Were you a Marine?
There is another former Marine on this board. His username is FJB. He's familiar with red dot optics, and how to market them. Why don't you contact him? I am sure he could give you a large number of ideas on how best to sell the items you have.
I do have a question for you. Have you noticed that all the reactions you have received have been unfavorable? No one has offered you a way to sell them here? In fact, you would have likely had as much luck passing fake twenties at a Secret Service convention?
That's a clue.
It really do think you have confused M4Carbine with another firearms website. And this is not that site.
Yes...And thank you. You are a gentleman. I feel like a fart in a skillet actually. My wife saw me kicking the bag and asked me if somthing happened (like a call or somthing) Actually I'm getting rid of them kinda for my kids buddy. He was in the D.E.P with my boy and broke his leg (compound fracture) And got a medical. He's now living with his Mom and trying to get out and picked these up last year Some where near Ocean Slime. I bought them from him and decided to get rid of them for close to what I bought them for. So if i don't it's no big deal. He's a good kid but used to get my boy into trouble alot when they were growing up. In fact he didn't want to join from what his Dad said. He never even shot a weapon (other than bb guns) until the week before he went to M.C.R.D. I guess he got maggie's drawers quite a bit before he broke his leg. But I like the kid. And he's a good friend to my Boy too. I may just keep them, after all I tried one out on my little M4 and it's works good enough. Not as accurate as my M1a with irons out to 100, but still pretty good for close in work. Anyway. Thanks for the tip.... out. Have fun guys....
i'll buy 'em all from you, if you pay me $5 each
Your posts are really annoying and border on being very TROLLISH. Let me know if that word is confusing for you. I can assure you that I am by no means a "snotty nose" kid and neither are many of the others here. You asked a stupid question (IMHO) and you got an answer. If you don't like it take your cloneware somewhere else. There are probably some other places that will appreciate it more.
You should realize that this website is a lot different than TOS or some of the other ridiculous sites out there.
If you don't like what I or the others said move out and draw fire.
BTW- I am most assuredly not a poser and as a new member here you should check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Another neato quote..
How bout this Jack.. You don't know me or how long I had to hump my 782 gear or where I served. You don't know where I trained, my outfit or anything about me. You just think I am some old guy that want's to sell cheap chinese ripoffs to un suspecting maggots. You're wrong. I didn't do what I had to do to let some snotty nosed kids give me flak. You guys seem to be a bunch of posers who think if they spend 500 bucks on an optic it will make them stand taller? Listen, they didn't even half the gear or cool optics my kid was issued when I was In ,and we did just fine. So get off your high horse
Semper Fi Jack.
i'm even offended by the term "clone," as that implies "the same" and "copy" and bull shit chinese garbage isn't "the same."
if you want to sell them, put them on ebay along with all the knockoff-selling assholes.
bing..test
Someone please handle this clown.
Parabellum9x19mm
12-09-08, 03:57
I bought a large amount of Aimpoint clones to sell and wonder if there will be a market for them? These look just like the real deal and aren't for airsoft. Any Ideas? I have thought about gun shows but the tables are expensive. As well I have thought about ebay but have had bad problems with them in the past. Maybe a myspace page? LOL
lot of people at gun shows have been selling fake Aimpoints and EOs as the real thing, charging just under what the genuine articles cost, to people who don't know any better.
if people are stupid enough to think that genuine EOs come with green reticles, well maybe they deserve what's coming to them...but people who sell chicom knock offs as the genuine article are the scum of the earth.
if you sell these things at least be honest with your customers and don't rip them off. sell them as replica hobby scopes for a fair price. some people on this forum might not be a fan of your wares (myself included), but at least they wouldn't have issues with your business practices if you were straight up and transparent with your sales pitch.
Para,
Let me know if you need a second job. You obviously possess diplomatic skills that I don't. :D
lot of people at gun shows have been selling fake Aimpoints and EOs as the real thing, charging just under what the genuine articles cost, to people who don't know any better.
if people are stupid enough to think that genuine EOs come with green reticles, well maybe they deserve what's coming to them...but people who sell chicom knock offs as the genuine article are the scum of the earth.
if you sell these things at least be honest with your customers and don't rip them off. sell them as replica hobby scopes for a fair price. some people on this forum might not be a fan of your wares (myself included), but at least they wouldn't have issues with your business practices if you were straight up and transparent with your sales pitch.
Parabellum9x19mm
12-09-08, 04:22
once in a while i get sloppy and make some non-inflamatory statements by mistake.
it happens to the best of us
;)
Outlander Systems
12-09-08, 05:32
i'm even offended by the term "clone," as that implies "the same" and "copy" and bull shit chinese garbage isn't "the same."
if you want to sell them, put them on ebay along with all the knockoff-selling assholes.
Hear, hear!
This has to be and ARFCOM troll. I'll give him credit. It's funny! ....But not appropriate for this board.
Another neato quote..
How bout this Jack.. You don't know me or how long I had to hump my 782 gear or where I served. You don't know where I trained, my outfit or anything about me. You just think I am some old guy that want's to sell cheap chinese ripoffs to un suspecting maggots. You're wrong. I didn't do what I had to do to let some snotty nosed kids give me flak. You guys seem to be a bunch of posers who think if they spend 500 bucks on an optic it will make them stand taller? Listen, they didn't even half the gear or cool optics my kid was issued when I was In ,and we did just fine. So get off your high horse
Semper Fi Jack.
Bullshit. If you weren't trying to make a buck off the Aimpoint name, why did you buy them?
BTW. I don't give a crap where or who you've humped. Just because someone serves doesn't mean they automatically deserve gratitude. Lots of shitty people have served.
K_Picatinny
12-09-08, 08:35
Try some kava kava, it helps with stress.
Hey Randall, try some ginko biloba, it helps with intelligence. Maybe then you wouldn't have bought a big bag of shitty counterfeit toys and try to pawn them off as the "real deal". Give me a break. Oh yeah good job supporting the Chicoms and shitting on the industry.
Please forgive me for asking this stupid question on this board. I checked into it today and found out that this board is for the "real deal" the real men of this great nation. You fellas are the type that only put real Swedish optics on your weapons.
( I was told most of you guys only buy American made cars too!)
But seriously.......
Please forgive me as I back outa here after I take my head out of my A--s. But as I bow Out I will leave you with one request. when they come for our weapons (and they probably will) will any of this make any difference at all? Even with some of the shitty things said to me in here I realize most of you have or probably did defend your God Country and Family with all you've got.
This is an apology and probably not appropriate to try and smash me more. However I'm sure someone will try some licks..lol Besides I won't be reading it, My vacation is over and I am back to busting my knuckles.
God Bless and Gung Ho. I'm glad I could amuse you guys......
Out
Failure2Stop
12-09-08, 17:10
You can sell whatever you want to to whomever you choose. The problem arises when a well intentioned relative or friend tries to "hook-up" a service man/woman venturing into a bad place by buying a "clone" for them to stick on their gun.
As long as you clearly indicate that the items are not for use on anything more important than a BB acceleration device you can be morally clean in the transaction, well, except for the product/intellectual property infringement side of the deal. The items you acquired with noble intention provide money to people that have no qualms with providing substandard items to the consumer by ripping off a real company that pushed money and time into development and research. Copying that item (poorly) is robbing from that manufacturer's R&D money, marketing costs, and consumer confidence.
I see that WasatchAR sent you a PM, though FJB is silent on this issue. Both of these members work for the company your items' manufacturer is stealing from. They are both gentlemen and seem to be avoiding getting drawn into this. Bravo to them, it speaks volumes as to their professionalism.
You indicate that you will not be on here again, and while I will not mourn the loss of this thread (I don't see it lasting long) you are depriving yourself of a wealth of information from experienced and honorable members that are more than happy to share with all. Hopefully your unfortunate enterprise does not impede your desire to learn.
All the best.
-F2S
You can sell whatever you want to to whomever you choose. The problem arises when a well intentioned relative or friend tries to "hook-up" a service man/woman venturing into a bad place by buying a "clone" for them to stick on their gun.
As long as you clearly indicate that the items are not for use on anything more important than a BB acceleration device you can be morally clean in the transaction, well, except for the product/intellectual property infringement side of the deal. The items you acquired with noble intention provide money to people that have no qualms with providing substandard items to the consumer by ripping off a real company that pushed money and time into development and research. Copying that item (poorly) is robbing from that manufacturer's R&D money, marketing costs, and consumer confidence.
I see that WasatchAR sent you a PM, though FJB is silent on this issue. Both of these members work for the company your items' manufacturer is stealing from. They are both gentlemen and seem to be avoiding getting drawn into this. Bravo to them, it speaks volumes as to their professionalism.
You indicate that you will not be on here again, and while I will not mourn the loss of this thread (I don't see it lasting long) you are depriving yourself of a wealth of information from experienced and honorable members that are more than happy to share with all. Hopefully your unfortunate enterprise does not impede your desire to learn.
All the best.
-F2S
I had to come back in a see what was happening. I drove over to his mothers house today and set them all in his porch and will forgive his debt to me. I left a note with the box and told him that his idea about selling them on this sight was stupid and that he should go to a paintball store with all of them and try to get something out of them. My kid called at 15:30 and asked how things were going and I spared him the details. He has enough to worry about right now. Anyway I probably will check in now and again to see what is going on in this rifle forum. I have to admit that the pieces I own are probably worth more than putting a piece of crap on them too. Thanks for your input. lesson learned.
Out
group hug time.
:)
welcome to the site.
group hug time.
:)
welcome to the site.
I feel so warm now!! Oh that's my cigarette burning my finger again! lol
[QUOTE=Randall68;266281]I feel so warm now!! Oh that's my cigarette burning my finger again! lol
Outstanding!let him try and sell the copies.it will save you from the hassle of people demanding their money back.hell I use BUIS mainly. Good luck to your son!you are right ,the best place to sell those is at the paintball store :D
... Thanks for taking enough time out of your busy "combat" days to find a computer and respond to this blastfemus thread.
Ok, apparently I just caught up here, and this troll is apparently "Out" of this thread, but I'm willing to bet he won't resist....
Yes, I have seen combat, I've spent time in Afghanistan, among other places, and NO I wasn't spending my time "busting my knuckles" or "wrenching on an engine" as you've already credited yourself doing.. Dude - stick to being a grease monkey because you're attempt at being a clonepoint salesman isn't working out so well.
Yes, some of us have seen busy "combat days"... I just hope you never see one, because with your attitude and apparent personal integrity - you wouldn't last long. Hell, I got some killer advice for you man, if you do ever see combat, or have to defend you're family, mount one of your clonepoints on your weapon :D It'll hold - spending $500+ on quality gear really isn't worth it, only us "kids" do that so we can "stand taller"?? Remember? ;)
LettersFromEarth
12-11-08, 13:07
Damascus,
Now, now, CG. Our (former) Marine friend has made all nice-nice. Lets forget the snide remarks made by many folks on this thread and move on. We can/will (& do) learn a lot from each other and Randall is now a part of what makes M4C stand out from the other sites regarding Stoner type weapons.
BTW--my PC is still "sick" anything you can send my way would be a big help. I'll PM you with further.
Jay Cunningham
12-11-08, 14:07
I can't believe that I missed this.
:mad:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.