View Full Version : Piston? HK MR556?
So it looks like those of us behind enemy lines (CA) can possibly celebrate the 4th of July with restorations of our rights. I am currently wanting a carbine possibly something different like a piston setup and I am looking towards HK or LMT unless I am missing something. SIG MCX, Robinson XCR, etc while not off the table I am just not overly familiar with.
Thanks
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-06-21, 10:45
You might look at the Bren 2 in .556. You can either buy a 16 inch rifle or buy a 14 inch Pistol and buy the 922R kit and pin on a Surefire Warcomp or something similar. It's definitely a cool weapon and arguably the most up to date design available (it has many of the features pioneered by the XM8/SCAR/ACR/ MCX (barf), etc. It is essentially a SCAR 16 with a nonreciprocating charging handle (a huge deal to many). I put one together from a 14 inch pistol and it is loads of fun. Allegedly there will be caliber conversion kits in the future.
You also have the Tavor X95 which is a fabulously underrated imported military weapon in almost every aspect other than the fun switch. It is basically the size of a colt Commando (although heavier for sure) but it packs a 16 inch plus chrome lined hammer forged barrel. IWI also puts spare parts kits up for sale regularly on their web page. Some folks report poor accuracy. I haven't noticed, but I basically shoot 10 inch steel plates at 50/100/180 yards so it seems awesome to me. There are already some pretty cool caliber conversion kits.
There is always the Classic AUG. The newer variants are quite nice. Although I am concerned that the most recent imports are not chrome lined (the same issue I have with the 556.
Unless something has changed, I would skip the HK 556. Although I love HK and I love the 416, the non-chrome lined non-mil spec barrel is a deal-breaker for me. YMMV.
The SCAR-16 is an amazing, absurdly durable, proven weapons system that is brought it in damn near military configuration (barring fun switch) but the $3300 price tag on these things is insane.
The Beretta ARX is an AMAZING value if you can find one. It is again, a very up to date design from a world-class manufacturer with a 500 year history. I picked mine up for $1100 but you have to look around.
I personally can't get past SIGs constant beta testing of weapons on the public. For the money they charge, they should have their homework done. I may be wrong, but I think they have already orphaned first gen MCX folks. I would skip that drama.
I have never owned or even played with an XCR so I will skip that.
Thanks for awesome reply. I am pretty sure i would have to go the rifle route and them pin/weld to 14.5 because we still have the pistol roster so pistol setups are still off the table. I always hear mixed things about the scar its the only one I have time on and I had no problems with it but then I hear "everyone who was issued one hated it" and I obviously didnt have enough time on it. I would be interested to learn more about the life span of the HK barrel being non chrome lined. If I could ever find a 14.5 pin/weld Knights (i know its DI) I would totally go that route. I havent considered a bulpup but now that you mention it the X95 is pretty slick, any info on the desert tech mdr I remember that was supposed to be a thing.
You might look at the Bren 2 in .556. You can either buy a 16 inch rifle or buy a 14 inch Pistol and buy the 922R kit and pin on a Surefire Warcomp or something similar. It's definitely a cool weapon and arguably the most up to date design available (it has many of the features pioneered by the XM8/SCAR/ACR/ MCX (barf), etc. It is essentially a SCAR 16 with a nonreciprocating charging handle (a huge deal to many). I put one together from a 14 inch pistol and it is loads of fun. Allegedly there will be caliber conversion kits in the future.
You also have the Tavor X95 which is a fabulously underrated imported military weapon in almost every aspect other than the fun switch. It is basically the size of a colt Commando (although heavier for sure) but it packs a 16 inch plus chrome lined hammer forged barrel. IWI also puts spare parts kits up for sale regularly on their web page. Some folks report poor accuracy. I haven't noticed, but I basically shoot 10 inch steel plates at 50/100/180 yards so it seems awesome to me. There are already some pretty cool caliber conversion kits.
There is always the Classic AUG. The newer variants are quite nice. Although I am concerned that the most recent imports are not chrome lined (the same issue I have with the 556.
Unless something has changed, I would skip the HK 556. Although I love HK and I love the 416, the non-chrome lined non-mil spec barrel is a deal-breaker for me. YMMV.
The SCAR-16 is an amazing, absurdly durable, proven weapons system that is brought it in damn near military configuration (barring fun switch) but the $3300 price tag on these things is insane.
The Beretta ARX is an AMAZING value if you can find one. It is again, a very up to date design from a world-class manufacturer with a 500 year history. I picked mine up for $1100 but you have to look around.
I personally can't get past SIGs constant beta testing of weapons on the public. For the money they charge, they should have their homework done. I may be wrong, but I think they have already orphaned first gen MCX folks. I would skip that drama.
I have never owned or even played with an XCR so I will skip that.
A bit to early celebrate... California attorney general had already announced he will appeal yesterday's pro2A ruling up to 9th circuit. For those who follow CA 2A, 9th circuit will almost always rule in favor of gun grabbers..so hopefully it goes all the way to SCOTUS....
Im not a lawyer and neither are 99% of the people trying to guestimate the outcome but either way I can look forward to potentially being able to purchase what I want but if it doesnt happen oh well. If it does I can be ready to jump on something. Thanks
A bit to early celebrate... California attorney general had already announced he will appeal yesterday's pro2A ruling up to 9th circuit. For those who follow CA 2A, 9th circuit will almost always rule in favor of gun grabbers..so hopefully it goes all the way to SCOTUS....
BoringGuy45
06-06-21, 12:01
A bit to early celebrate... California attorney general had already announced he will appeal yesterday's pro2A ruling up to 9th circuit. For those who follow CA 2A, 9th circuit will almost always rule in favor of gun grabbers..so hopefully it goes all the way to SCOTUS....
True, but with the SC made up the way it is, they might not punt the appeal this time.
With all due respect, I started this thread as I am interested in more information about products and not individual prospectives on legal proceedings. I am sure plenty of threads exist to participate in thanks.
True, but with the SC made up the way it is, they might not punt the appeal this time.
The newer AUGs are great.
The MR556 is great. You are getting essentially an HK M27 barrel. User Montrala here had a lot of rounds through his. It wouldn’t hurt to search.
I have an MR556 and love it. Everybody gets hung up on the lack of Chrome Lining. They forget that the barrels are made in such a way that you don’t need them to be Chrome Lined.
And you’re get a gun that is “finished” in the USA more than made in the USA.
Most of the people crying about the 416/556 spiel have never fired both in a large enough capacity to have a real, meaningful opinion. I will advise you that if you get one to get the Geissele rail and the A5 HK grip and the slimline HK stock.
If I could only have one gun and couldn’t get an LMT MRP Mlok; it would most certainly be an HK. Just remember it only likes M3 Pmags or regular GI mags
awesome thanks, I was originally looking at the LMT stuff but the difficulty in tracking them down is the problem let alone a complete carbine. The mention of the Bren 2 intrigues me especially looking at the new carbine with mlok it seems pretty easy to have someone make it 14.5 pin/weld job and an excellent upgrade over previous brens.
The newer AUGs are great.
The MR556 is great. You are getting essentially an HK M27 barrel. User Montrala here had a lot of rounds through his. It wouldn’t hurt to search.
I have an MR556 and love it. Everybody gets hung up on the lack of Chrome Lining. They forget that the barrels are made in such a way that you don’t need them to be Chrome Lined.
And you’re get a gun that is “finished” in the USA more than made in the USA.
Most of the people crying about the 416/556 spiel have never fired both in a large enough capacity to have a real, meaningful opinion. I will advise you that if you get one to get the Geissele rail and the A5 HK grip and the slimline HK stock.
If I could only have one gun and couldn’t get an LMT MRP Mlok; it would most certainly be an HK. Just remember it only likes M3 Pmags or regular GI mags
The HK... it’s barrel leaves a lot to be desired (too heavy a contour and it’s neither Melonited/QPQ or hard chrome lined).
The rifle is heavy.
I know, I know... it’s an HK and I’m not immune to that either, mind you!
Barrett makes or made an external piston AR as does LWRCi.
You want what you want but I’d opt for something I could more easily maintain and repair economically.
Daniel Defense, BCM, etc., conventional, Direct Impingement Carbines. I would also purchase a few lowers and uppers and bolt carrier assemblies if and when the law changes if I were in California.
BoringGuy45
06-06-21, 17:06
With all due respect, I started this thread as I am interested in more information about products and not individual prospectives on legal proceedings. I am sure plenty of threads exist to participate in thanks.
I was just responding to his commentary.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-06-21, 17:23
Most of the people crying about the 416/556 spiel have never fired both in a large enough capacity to have a real, meaningful opinion. I will advise you that if you get one to get the Geissele rail and the A5 HK grip and the slimline HK stock.
Well I I haven’t owned an American MR556 but I did have a real deal HK 416 upper on a m16a1 for years. Great fun. Eventually flipped it because the money was too tempting.
I don’t hate the 556, I would just prefer it if they had real 416 barrels. Some people like different things, not everything is a big deal. If I was buying one it would just be to get some thing as close to a military 416 as possible. I don’t have a full auto lower anymore so I don’t really have a actual need for it —it would just be to have something awesome. And it would be a little more awesome if it was made to spec. YMMV.
Well I I haven’t owned an American MR556 but I did have a real deal HK 416 upper on a m16a1 for years. Great fun. Eventually flipped it because the money was too tempting.
I don’t hate the 556, I would just prefer it if they had real 416 barrels. Some people like different things, not everything is a big deal. If I was buying one it would just be to get some thing as close to a military 416 as possible. I don’t have a full auto lower anymore so I don’t really have a actual need for it —it would just be to have something awesome. And it would be a little more awesome if it was made to spec. YMMV.
Please explain “made to spec”. HK literally makes these guns. They will openly tell you that the 2004 HK416s are obsolete. I am confused when you say “real” 416 barrels. HK makes all the barrels and if you were able to wear one out; they would replace it.
No it’s not like the exact gun the military has but then, I am not in the military. I just want something that works.
I see the allure of chrome lining but you’re not going to wear out a 556 barrel. The M27 is the exact same profile as the 556 so they aren’t that heavy.
I have used a (more contemporary) work 416 and as such got my own personal 556. I do believe the longer barrel gives you the better all around experience in terms of balance.
It is by far the most accurate AR I own. Hands down. And that’s a bold statement given some of the pieces that I have bought or built over the years.
If it were me, and this may be the only rifle that I could get in California; it would be HK if not LMT.
It’s my MacBook Pro rifle. It’s expensive but it just works.
My only advice on 556 is not to bother with the quad rail. It adds unnecessary weight and it’s simply not worth it.
At the same time, by sheer virtue of it being a piston, it will never ever be a lightweight gun.
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-06-21, 18:15
Please explain “made to spec”. HK literally makes these guns. They will openly tell you that the 2004 HK416s are obsolete. I am confused when you say “real” 416 barrels. HK makes all the barrels and if you were able to wear one out; they would replace it.
I am sorry I confused you. If HK ever makes the 556 barrels (chrome lined) like they do the 416 barrels I’ll definitely pick one up for the collection.
i hear ya, lowers and parts have never been an issue as far as CA goes. I am trying to limit the amount of what i own. The "HK" is a selling point.
The HK... it’s barrel leaves a lot to be desired (too heavy a contour and it’s neither Melonited/QPQ or hard chrome lined).
The rifle is heavy.
I know, I know... it’s an HK and I’m not immune to that either, mind you!
Barrett makes or made an external piston AR as does LWRCi.
You want what you want but I’d opt for something I could more easily maintain and repair economically.
Daniel Defense, BCM, etc., conventional, Direct Impingement Carbines. I would also purchase a few lowers and uppers and bolt carrier assemblies if and when the law changes if I were in California.
If the barrel on an MR556 not being chromed lined bugs you you could always wait for a run of Marvin Pitts' CL barrels. Then of course that adds another $450-500 to the cost of your $3K MR556. A guy in Arkansas (Jayson from Investment Grade Firearms) used to do re-profile and nitride jobs on MR556 barrels. Not sure but IIRC he has fallen into disfavor, although I used him once and never had an issue. Excellent work at a decent price.
I am not looking for collectors item. I am looking for a go to low maintenence carbine that I can throw a red dot and light on for HD and if things went horribly wrong a LVPO for outside the house would you recommend the MR556 for this?
Please explain “made to spec”. HK literally makes these guns. They will openly tell you that the 2004 HK416s are obsolete. I am confused when you say “real” 416 barrels. HK makes all the barrels and if you were able to wear one out; they would replace it.
No it’s not like the exact gun the military has but then, I am not in the military. I just want something that works.
I see the allure of chrome lining but you’re not going to wear out a 556 barrel. The M27 is the exact same profile as the 556 so they aren’t that heavy.
I have used a (more contemporary) work 416 and as such got my own personal 556. I do believe the longer barrel gives you the better all around experience in terms of balance.
It is by far the most accurate AR I own. Hands down. And that’s a bold statement given some of the pieces that I have bought or built over the years.
If it were me, and this may be the only rifle that I could get in California; it would be HK if not LMT.
It’s my MacBook Pro rifle. It’s expensive but it just works.
My only advice on 556 is not to bother with the quad rail. It adds unnecessary weight and it’s simply not worth it.
At the same time, by sheer virtue of it being a piston, it will never ever be a lightweight gun.
Ill be completely honest I have done a fair amount of shooting and have broken a multitude parts but i have personally never ran into the issue of lack of chrome lining but i am no one special and honestly not a expert in the world of barrel treatment/coatings.
If the barrel on an MR556 not being chromed lined bugs you you could always wait for a run of Marvin Pitts' CL barrels. Then of course that adds another $450-500 to the cost of your $3K MR556. A guy in Arkansas (Jayson from Investment Grade Firearms) used to do re-profile and nitride jobs on MR556 barrels. Not sure but IIRC he has fallen into disfavor, although I used him once and never had an issue. Excellent work at a decent price.
many moons ago a buddy had an LWRC and it did not do well and that experience has some what tainted my perspective and while I am sure they have corrected everything it would be hard for me to go that route.
LWRC all day !
I am not looking for collectors item. I am looking for a go to low maintenence carbine that I can throw a red dot and light on for HD and if things went horribly wrong a LVPO for outside the house would you recommend the MR556 for this?
To give you a totally honest answer I would say a qualified “yes” with a few caveats. Of all the piston ARs in the world, the HK is definitely the standard and with the 16” barrel you do get a far less violent recoil impulse than you would if you had a 10.4 or an 11”. That said, there is no such thing as a free lunch. The rifle is designed to survive a long time in adverse conditions but the carbon still collects somewhere. You do have to maintain it. That said, it is a bit more proprietary than your average AR.
You don’t have to baby it (I don’t baby mine) but if you are on the fence then maybe it’s not the gun for you. You will hear a lot of larpy hogwash poopooing of the 556 that should be absolutely and immediately dismissed. It IS in its own ecosystem of sorts. If all else were equal and perfect, should the rifle ever hiccup; HK will certainly stand by their product and I can attest and affirm to this professionally and personally.
BUT Cali is weird and you may only have so much of a window. I only discuss the 556 because I own one and you asked about it.
If it were me I would probably get a quality 6920 style carbine and a lot of spare parts from gas tubes to BCGs. I might even look into something with a rifle gas. You may be in a position due to political climate where you may have to be your own armorer. So you may want a lot more common parts.
If you did opt for the 556, you should be totally fine. But if you are anxious about the longevity of your freedom you may want something not so proprietary.
Going a step further, were money not an issue I would get an LMT Rifle and a spare, standard carbine upper.
All I can say is good luck. If nothing else, get what you can get regardless
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-06-21, 19:18
If it were me I would probably get a quality 6920 style carbine and a lot of spare parts from gas tubes to BCGs. I might even look into something with a rifle gas. You may be in a position due to political climate where you may have to be your own armorer. So you may want a lot more common parts.
Despite the chromepocalypse above I actually agree with this. I would have said the same but we were talking about pistons. No doubt a good AR-15 is a better choice for a “one” gun.
Fair enough and thank you for a solid response. I have the DI thing covered and parts etc have never been an issue its more along the lines of getting something I have always wanted with out the "featureless" nonesense. If I could actually find a legit LMT carbine in stock I would consider it lol so if you know where I could find some that would be awesome. Currently I think i am between the HK and Bren 2.
To give you a totally honest answer I would say a qualified “yes” with a few caveats. Of all the piston ARs in the world, the HK is definitely the standard and with the 16” barrel you do get a far less violent recoil impulse than you would if you had a 10.4 or an 11”. That said, there is no such thing as a free lunch. The rifle is designed to survive a long time in adverse conditions but the carbon still collects somewhere. You do have to maintain it. That said, it is a bit more proprietary than your average AR.
You don’t have to baby it (I don’t baby mine) but if you are on the fence then maybe it’s not the gun for you. You will hear a lot of larpy hogwash poopooing of the 556 that should be absolutely and immediately dismissed. It IS in its own ecosystem of sorts. If all else were equal and perfect, should the rifle ever hiccup; HK will certainly stand by their product and I can attest and affirm to this professionally and personally.
BUT Cali is weird and you may only have so much of a window. I only discuss the 556 because I own one and you asked about it.
If it were me I would probably get a quality 6920 style carbine and a lot of spare parts from gas tubes to BCGs. I might even look into something with a rifle gas. You may be in a position due to political climate where you may have to be your own armorer. So you may want a lot more common parts.
If you did opt for the 556, you should be totally fine. But if you are anxious about the longevity of your freedom you may want something not so proprietary.
Going a step further, were money not an issue I would get an LMT Rifle and a spare, standard carbine upper.
All I can say is good luck. If nothing else, get what you can get regardless
THanks and that would be the most reasonable answer but considering I have the DI thing covered I am wanting alternatives. thanks
Despite the chromepocalypse above I actually agree with this. I would have said the same but we were talking about pistons. No doubt a good AR-15 is a better choice for a “one” gun.
FWIW, I very very much love my PWS piston rifle. I've only had the opportunity to put a few thousand rounds on it, but have had no issues other than one particular Gen 1 PMAG that would only lock back on empty intermittently. Lots of other people that have them all seem to love them too, including many with extreme round counts on theirs.
Long stroke 1 piece gas piston, and probably the best kept secret in the premium AR world. And even though the bolt doesn't have gas rings, you can use a standard bolt in a pinch, as a spare.
Here are my thoughts on piston rifles based on my experience with them. I own several Sig 516's, several MCX Virtus's, and one HK MR556. I also own several DI rifles, primarily Centurion Arms. I am a big piston fan. The ones that I have have all been 100% reliable and shoot very well. The 516's are heavy, as is the MR556, primarily being massively overbuilt in certain areas including barrels. Yes, the recoil impulse of a piston rifle is different from a DI gun, but not so punishing as to make any significant difference (imho). The real beauty of a piston rifle, aside from its reliability, is that the bcg just doesn't get dirty. Cleaning a piston rifle is a piece of cake compared to a DI rifle. Now, the real interesting piston rifle for me is the MCX Virtus. Recent reviews of this rifle have been very favorable. The ones I have (16" and 2-11.5") shoot well, and the recoil impulse is virtually the same as a DI gun. There is a strong possibility that the NGSW for the US Military will be a variant of the MCX in 6.8 caliber. Lots of info out there on this rifle if one wants to look. To be sure, for civilian use, a DI rifle is just as practical as a piston variant. But for serious use the piston rifle is still the choice of many. I have no hesitation in recommending any of the models I own and shoot to anyone interested in having a piston gun.
I own two MR556's and they are, by a wide margin, the most accurate AR15's currently in my safe. I can shoot sub MOA consistently when I do my part with my hand loads. Probably not going to find one in inventory anywhere or at a reasonable cost in the current market.
They are heavy, accurate and extremely well made.
Well that was strange. Double tap.
I didn’t get my 556 because it was piston but because those barrels are very well made and almost laser accurate which is coming from a man with an original SR-25 with a 24” Obermyer. You still have to clean a piston but I honestly would have no problem if it were my only gun. I still chuckle to myself at the people spazzing over the no chrome lining. If you only knew how many modern military guns didn’t have Chrome Lining you would lose a lot of sleep.
I for one am glad they got rid of the vestigial M4 step. Just for fun I put a Leupold on mine when I first got it and it would put a Mk. 12 to utter shame.
HK is like a MacBook. Yes it seems obscenely expensive initially until you realize that your purchase will hold up for a long time compared to a normal PC
I didn’t get my 556 because it was piston but because those barrels are very well made and almost laser accurate which is coming from a man with an original SR-25 with a 24” Obermyer. You still have to clean a piston but I honestly would have no problem if it were my only gun. I still chuckle to myself at the people spazzing over the no chrome lining. If you only knew how many modern military guns didn’t have Chrome Lining you would lose a lot of sleep.
I for one am glad they got rid of the vestigial M4 step. Just for fun I put a Leupold on mine when I first got it and it would put a Mk. 12 to utter shame.
HK is like a MacBook. Yes it seems obscenely expensive initially until you realize that your purchase will hold up for a long time compared to a normal PC
I only have 2 AR's with Chrome Linined Barrels and 2 Barrels I took off that were Chrome Linined because I wasn't happy with the accuracy. Anyway, what kind of Coating do they use on the 556 Barrels to protect them or harden the Steel? I haven't really looked into these but I do believe I will now.
Thanks.⁰
I guess I will be the only one on here to mention a PWS for a piston gun. The recoil takes a second to get used to over a carbine or mid-length setup, but great shooting guns. I will also say the MCX is awesome and I have been looking for a 11.5 for sometime with no luck, I have been throwing out offers to my friend for the last year+ since he found his.
If you were going to get a AR-15 now that there could possibly be a window to do so I understand why you would want to go after a HK, LMT or MCX, but I'm still not sold that a piston gun can give you anything more than a DI can unless you were to suppress it, which as a child of California I will hold out hope for, but know better. Honestly if AR's were now legal I would buy a good number of aero lowers and BCM uppers and go for the a good mix of quality and quantity, but that's just me.
So it looks like those of us behind enemy lines (CA) can possibly celebrate the 4th of July with restorations of our rights. I am currently wanting a carbine possibly something different like a piston setup and I am looking towards HK or LMT unless I am missing something. SIG MCX, Robinson XCR, etc while not off the table I am just not overly familiar with.
Thanks
I know it is immeasurably easier said than done, and I do know what I'm saying because I did it, but if I were a God loving, conservative pro-gun person who loves America I would GTHO of CommiFornia ASAP. I moved from The communist peoples republic of IL to IN almost 19 years ago for MANY reasons but taxes and gun control were tied for top two most important.
I saw what was coming and got out back in 2002. I even no longer work in IL and now work in IN so great is my haltered for Chitcago.
Not to side-track this thread too much, but it never ceases to amaze me what the attraction is for anyone. It simply can't make financial sense.
- High Taxes
- High regulation / Activist Government
- Outrageously expensive housing
- High gas prices
- High overall cost of living in general
I suppose this might be attractive to someone, but not if you are a critical thinker. Its only getting worse and will continue the downward spiral.
Defaultmp3
06-07-21, 12:24
My PWS MK110 Mod 1 (last gen, had the old KeyMod handguard without the PicMod) was terribly overgassed, being able to lock back on empty with a SureFire SOCOM556-RC even on the smallest gas port setting with a 10 oz A5 buffer. The customer service was very good, though (they attempted to address the overgas issue with a new AGB drum, and replaced a bolt with a sheered lug) and quite responsive.
Fair enough and thank you for a solid response. I have the DI thing covered and parts etc have never been an issue its more along the lines of getting something I have always wanted with out the "featureless" nonesense. If I could actually find a legit LMT carbine in stock I would consider it lol so if you know where I could find some that would be awesome. Currently I think i am between the HK and Bren 2.
You just MIGHT be able to talk me out of one...
Thing is, I’m having surgery tomorrow (ruptured quad tendon and ruptured triceps tendon) so I won’t be digging them out for some time.
I adore the HK416. The problem is I cannot afford three (3) of them and spares for all three (2 bolts, two extractors, two firing pins, etc., per rifle). Nor is anyone else I know nearby running them so I’d be “in my own” in any serious, “worst case scenario” (not that you’d have enough ammo on you - and use it - to break a bolt lug).
I *think* the HK AR-15 is the most tested external piston AR-15 on the market and that’s not likely to change.
I agree that the LMT is a more sensible option. I love mine.
You can purchase an LMT MRP has piston upper. If you do purchase the rifle length MLOK and then order the 16” gas piston barrel, send it to be cut to 14.5” and pinned with whatever muzzle device you fancy.
That’s my recommendation.
You can purchase a complete lower, replace the trigger to a Geissele SSA or SSA-E; an A5 receiver extension and buffer and a SOCOM buttstock.
There are some small parts you may like - Maritime mag release; any number of charge handles and I think you’d have a superb platform.
If all else fails.... Geissele has a nice rifle that mimics the new SOCOM carbine. It’s very well equipped. I’d have *ZERO* concerns about that carbine. It’s reasonably priced as well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SeriousStudent
06-07-21, 13:56
You just MIGHT be able to talk me out of one...
Thing is, I’m having surgery tomorrow (ruptured quad tendon and ruptured triceps tendon) so I won’t be digging them out for some time.
.................
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yikes!!! Good luck with the surgery, I hope you rehab quickly and completely.
I hope all goes well and for a speedy recovery, ill keep my eyes out for the LMT stuff.
I only have 2 AR's with Chrome Linined Barrels and 2 Barrels I took off that were Chrome Linined because I wasn't happy with the accuracy. Anyway, what kind of Coating do they use on the 556 Barrels to protect them or harden the Steel? I haven't really looked into these but I do believe I will now.
Thanks.⁰
HK MR556 barrels are indeed coated insofar that it renders the Chrome Lining redundant and obsolete.
I mean you effectively are getting a gun that is more advanced than the early 00s 416s. I would love an A5 version that has the normal magwell as opposed to the SA80 one of course.
You still have to clean the barrel but you don’t have to OD on it like a Mosin or anything.
I mean if these guns suck so bad then why are they unironically going for $4 grand on Funbroker and still selling out?
The factory trigger rivals a Geissele. I don’t baby my stuff. I could have lived a complete life with a DI gun but I liked the 416 for reasons beyond the piston and got a personal one. You hear way more about SCARs defecating the dugout than you do HK anything but people still go on about the smallest thing.
The new ones i see have the MLOK rail is this the one to get?
HK MR556 barrels are indeed coated insofar that it renders the Chrome Lining redundant and obsolete.
I mean you effectively are getting a gun that is more advanced than the early 00s 416s. I would love an A5 version that has the normal magwell as opposed to the SA80 one of course.
You still have to clean the barrel but you don’t have to OD on it like a Mosin or anything.
I mean if these guns suck so bad then why are they unironically going for $4 grand on Funbroker and still selling out?
The factory trigger rivals a Geissele. I don’t baby my stuff. I could have lived a complete life with a DI gun but I liked the 416 for reasons beyond the piston and got a personal one. You hear way more about SCARs defecating the dugout than you do HK anything but people still go on about the smallest thing.
The new ones i see have the MLOK rail is this the one to get?
Yep. Geissele rail is best but the US market Mloks are good too. Don’t chase the clone dragon. It’s ultimately just a handguard. The only ones I don’t recommend are the quad rail. Way too heavy. Once you get a sensible rail it stops being “too heavy”. It’s essentially a semi HBAR with a few extra steps. I mean there are pissant girls who shoot my HK offhand and like it because of the trigger
The new ones i see have the MLOK rail is this the one to get?
The one I have has the MLOK rail, and I like it a lot, even though I am not a big MLOK fan. Nicely made and the weight reduction is an added bonus.
Defaultmp3
06-07-21, 18:56
HK MR556 barrels are indeed coated insofar that it renders the Chrome Lining redundant and obsolete.AFAIK, that is not true, unless they've recently changed that. Last I had checked, the MR556 is simply bare steel, without any other treatment, not even nitriding. Now, they do use a special grade of steel, and not just plain Jane 4150 CMV (lot of G3s out there with untreated barrels, too), but the whole nitriding thing was misinformation from H&K USA's CS in the early years, AFAIK.
AFAIK, that is not true, unless they've recently changed that. Last I had checked, the MR556 is simply bare steel, without any other treatment, not even nitriding. Now, they do use a special grade of steel, and not just plain Jane 4150 CMV (lot of G3s out there with untreated barrels, too), but the whole nitriding thing was misinformation from H&K USA's CS in the early years, AFAIK.
I didn’t say nitride, sir. I said coated. This was what an HK guy told me as recently as 2019 when I bought my rifle. I got the “package” one with the hardcase and pistol cutout.
He said it was an “environment coat” that alleviated a need for any chrome lining and that the barrels were swaged and made from the exact same German steel.
I haven’t had a problem and I dont always clean my stuff like I should and with 77 SMK it’s a laser.
So I don’t know what to tell you. I encourage anyone really concerned about this to call HK USA.
Defaultmp3
06-07-21, 19:41
I didn’t say nitride, sir. I said coated. This was what an HK guy told me as recently as 2019 when I bought my rifle. I got the “package” one with the hardcase and pistol cutout.
He said it was an “environment coat” that alleviated a need for any chrome lining and that the barrels were swaged and made from the exact same German steel.
I haven’t had a problem and I dont always clean my stuff like I should and with 77 SMK it’s a laser.
So I don’t know what to tell you. I encourage anyone really concerned about this to call HK USA.I have spoken to H&K USA CS before, and was told that it was a bare bore, with no treatment or coating. This has also been confirmed by Robert Silvers (at least no nitriding) and montrala (bare bore) over the years, though these are all statements that are a few years old. If they've recently made changes, then perhaps there is a new coating, but I've never heard anything otherwise, despite frequenting HKPro a fair bit and keeping an eye out for any upgrades to the MR556. It was confirmed that they do use the exact base steel as the HK416 and MR223, and for the purposes of corrosion protection, it seems to do the job just fine. I will admit that the "environment coat" sounds suspiciously like the Hostile Environment (HE) finish that H&K utilizes on their handguns (which is just nitriding).
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-07-21, 19:50
Trivia note: It's French Steel. Ken Hackathorn once told a story about when he was at H&K. Apparently they get an extremely high grade of steel from Aubert & Duval in France. He and LAV saw a bunch of blanks sitting there with French Flag stickers on them. He said the Germans were like, "I SEE NOTHING!!!" LOL
This is, of course, presuming they are using the same barrel blanks for the 556 as the 416.
Defaultmp3
06-07-21, 19:55
Trivia note: It's French Steel. Ken Hackathorn once told a story about when he was at H&K. Apparently they get an extremely high grade of steel from a specialty maker in France. He and LAV saw a bunch of blanks sitting there with French Flag stickers on them. He said the Germans were like, "I SEE NOTHING!!!" LOL
The barrel steel used by HK GmbH is provided to them by Aubert & Duval. It is based on decades of close coordination between HK and A&D. The proprietary "recipe" is known by only a few of those in the "technique" (technical) departments at HK GmbH. 20 years with HK and involved in many projects that pushed HK barrels to and beyond reasonable limits (MK23, MP5/10, G11, HK416, etc.) and that recipe (there are various ones for various applications) was never shared with me - no need. The bottom line was it was selected to provide the performance and safety that HK barrels are renowned for in worst case scenarios. I have posted many, many times here about industry leading performance of HK CHF barrels made from this steel. 2-4 times the service life of HK-made M134 MiniGun, HK416, HK GPMG, M27 IAR, etc barrels over the very best made elsewhere to include those employing stellite liners. It would be a major mistake for HK or A&D to share that/those proprietary steel(s) with anyone without an absolute need to know.
It is not "black magic" but solid materials technology in practice and is far more than just the steel composition but the unique way in which the barrels are produced, induction hardened, straightened, QA'd and finished. Oberndorf has been hammer forging barrels in the Neckar River Valley for hundreds of years since the Mauser days and even before. They will not and should not give that technological advantage away for any reason.
G3KurzSource: https://www.hkpro.com/threads/what-kind-of-steel-is-used-in-hk416-417.192466/page-2#post-1547395
I have spoken to H&K USA CS before, and was told that it was a bare bore, with no treatment or coating. This has also been confirmed by Robert Silvers (at least no nitriding) and montrala (bare bore) over the years, though these are all statements that are a few years old. If they've recently made changes, then perhaps there is a new coating, but I've never heard anything otherwise, despite frequenting HKPro a fair bit and keeping an eye out for any upgrades to the MR556. It was confirmed that they do use the exact base steel as the HK416 and MR223, and for the purposes of corrosion protection, it seems to do the job just fine. I will admit that the "environment coat" sounds suspiciously like the Hostile Environment (HE) finish that H&K utilizes on their handguns (which is just nitriding).
I’m just going with what I was told c. 2019. I do not use or frequent HKPro. I was told the barrels all start the same and come from Germany. If they are initially French manufacture, cool. But this is what I was directly told.
The problem with HK MR556s is that people go out of their way to find some “smoking gun” in a Geraldo Rivera-esque quest to declare the weapon “bad”.
Meanwhile SCARs have stocks that come off, routinely destroy optics, and the SCAR 16 was eating Pmags and having fleas and everybody acts like they are magically Navy SEALs because they have one.
I got mine because it’s a good rifle. If it wasn’t, I would have had zero problem selling it and getting my money back. I don’t care what Delta and CIA use.
Firefly (when ammo was available) just took his gun out and shot varmints and IPSC targets and had fun. I’m not diving with it nor jumping out of a plane with it. I’m tossing it and some mags in my truck and going to some land.
JFC y’all…
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-07-21, 20:13
I’m just going with what I was told c. 2019. I do not use or frequent HKPro. I was told the barrels all start the same and come from Germany. If they are initially French manufacture, cool. But this is what I was directly told
I just thought it was a funny story. The real mystery is where they get their chrome. 65925
Trivia note: It's French Steel. Ken Hackathorn once told a story about when he was at H&K. Apparently they get an extremely high grade of steel from Aubert & Duval in France. He and LAV saw a bunch of blanks sitting there with French Flag stickers on them. He said the Germans were like, "I SEE NOTHING!!!" LOL
This is, of course, presuming they are using the same barrel blanks for the 556 as the 416.
This is exactly correct. HK is extremely secretive about the formulation of the steel they get from France.
HK MR556 barrels are indeed coated insofar that it renders the Chrome Lining redundant and obsolete.
I mean you effectively are getting a gun that is more advanced than the early 00s 416s. I would love an A5 version that has the normal magwell as opposed to the SA80 one of course.
You still have to clean the barrel but you don’t have to OD on it like a Mosin or anything.
I mean if these guns suck so bad then why are they unironically going for $4 grand on Funbroker and still selling out?
The factory trigger rivals a Geissele. I don’t baby my stuff. I could have lived a complete life with a DI gun but I liked the 416 for reasons beyond the piston and got a personal one. You hear way more about SCARs defecating the dugout than you do HK anything but people still go on about the smallest thing.
All the reading about these HK's today made me run to some local Gun Shops, I new I wouldn't find one for sale but I did find one I could check out.
It's a damn nice little rifle, I am seriously considering having my Buddy that works there start looken me one hear in a couple weeks. Damn thing put some VooDoo on me or something 🤣
The Dumb Gun Collector
06-07-21, 21:44
Our very own G&R tactical has them in stock
https://www.gandrtactical.com/HK-MR556-16-M-LOK-556-_p_2787.html
I have no skin in the game, but would like to add a data point of sorts. I do remember the guys at Battlefield Vegas complaining about the barrels on the MR556 being very short lived, as in just a few thousand rounds. Might be partially why people want the 416 chrome lined barrels.
CharlieDeltaJuliet
06-08-21, 07:03
I own a couple MR556 and they are one of my favorite rifles, but these guys are right about the chrome lined thing. They are accurate as can be but I would not want to do many mag dumps with one. If you do get one and decide you want a chrome lined barrel, look to Marvin at nefarious arms. He makes a really fun chrome lined barrels.
Why are you all wanting to put them on select fire lowers and run them as impromptu SAWs? The upper receivers are dimensionally different and the rifle is not meant for full auto.
I outgrew mag dumping c. Age 24 but I have blazed with my 556 more than a few times and noticed no issues.
I like mine and not because it was pricey. IÂ’d go a step further and say just get the upper were that an option
turnburglar
06-08-21, 14:32
The problem with HK MR556s is that people go out of their way to find some “smoking gun” in a Geraldo Rivera-esque quest to declare the weapon “bad”.
Meanwhile SCARs .....
I think the problem HK has; is the problem HK has always had. A really skewed public image. From video games, to Tom Clancy, to actual Tier 1 types rocking them. Take all of that mystique and combine with the hysteria that an individual either cant actually buy a MP7 under any condition, or that the MR556 is uncomfortably out of their price range. That's how you get the "jUsT aS GuOD" crowd to attack HK.
I have shot an carried a glock for years. I just recently got my VP9L to shoot 2 gun. The HK is on an entirely different level of quality compared to the glock. Even the really expensive "match" glocks will never be able to touch the VP9L. Never. You simply cant "modify" into a gun german over engineering and absolute manufacturing prowess.
If you could buy an MP7, the same crowd would loudly complain it isn't a useful self defense round and isn't any better than the 5.7x28mm cartridge.
I think the problem HK has; is the problem HK has always had. A really skewed public image. From video games, to Tom Clancy, to actual Tier 1 types rocking them. Take all of that mystique and combine with the hysteria that an individual either cant actually buy a MP7 under any condition, or that the MR556 is uncomfortably out of their price range. That's how you get the "jUsT aS GuOD" crowd to attack HK.
I have shot an carried a glock for years. I just recently got my VP9L to shoot 2 gun. The HK is on an entirely different level of quality compared to the glock. Even the really expensive "match" glocks will never be able to touch the VP9L. Never. You simply cant "modify" into a gun german over engineering and absolute manufacturing prowess.
I guess. I dunno. I just shoot what I like.
I even have a Colt carbine upper on a *GASP* PSA lower I got for really cheap because I wanted the upper as is but wanted an updated mlok upper on my authentic Colt lower.
Been away for a bit and have a lot to catch up with. Excuse the multiple posts.
The newer AUGs are great.
The MR556 is great. You are getting essentially an HK M27 barrel. User Montrala here had a lot of rounds through his. It wouldn’t hurt to search.
I have an MR556 and love it. Everybody gets hung up on the lack of Chrome Lining. They forget that the barrels are made in such a way that you don’t need them to be Chrome Lined.
The 2004 HK416s are not obsolete. HK has made improvements and upgraded versions, but that doesn't make the older versions obsolete.
Please explain “made to spec”. HK literally makes these guns. They will openly tell you that the 2004 HK416s are obsolete. I am confused when you say “real” 416 barrels. HK makes all the barrels and if you were able to wear one out; they would replace it.
No it’s not like the exact gun the military has but then, I am not in the military. I just want something that works.
I see the allure of chrome lining but you’re not going to wear out a 556 barrel. The M27 is the exact same profile as the 556 so they aren’t that heavy.
Made to spec means made to the military specs of the HK416.
The MR556 does not have "essentially a HK M27 barrel." The MR556 was developed by HK Germany for civilian use. MR designates "Match Rifle." It has a heavier barrel than the HK416 and does not have chrome lining in order to maximize accuracy. They actually had to build it as a match rifle for their civilian market because the military HK416 is considered a "weapon of war." So they had to go with some changes and the "match rifle" moniker. It is thought that civilians will not be using the gun under battlefield conditions or with automatic fire and thus will not need the chrome lining. Chrome lining serves to increase life span, reduce wear, protect from corrosion form field use, and make cleaning easier. It does reduce maximum accuracy potential, but chrome lined barrels are accurate enough. I've managed postage stamp sized 5 round groups with my 10.3" HK416 upper at 50 yards using an Aimpoint T-1 with decent ammo.
The MR556 is actually a half pound heavier than the M27. Also, the MR556 and MR762 have pivot and takedown pins that require a nipple-pointed hex tool to push them out. Once you have these pins pushed out, you need to push on them with the tool while applying pressure from the other direction to push them back in. When I had an MR762, I replaced the rear takedown pin with an M4 takedown pin just to be able to make it easier to open up to clean and access the bolt. bolt carrier, and chamber.
HK MR556 barrels are indeed coated insofar that it renders the Chrome Lining redundant and obsolete.
I mean you effectively are getting a gun that is more advanced than the early 00s 416s. I would love an A5 version that has the normal magwell as opposed to the SA80 one of course.
The MR556 barrels are not coated, nor do they receive any factory treatment. The MR556s are not more advanced that early 00s HK416s.
Well gee Ed. You may well be telling me the truth but some of that very much conflicts with what the HK guy told me. I do not know to think now.
At the end of the day, my gun works, wouldn’t hesitate to use it against a mob of Crips in a self defense situation, it holds zero, and for $2950, I don’t feel I overpaid for how it’s functioned. Aside from handguards and length it hasn’t done anything my work HK couldn’t do.
Get what y’all want but I’m happy with my gun
ETA the “push pin” takedown pins were annoying at first but after a while I barely notice anymore.
Well gee Ed. You may well be telling me the truth but some of that very much conflicts with what the HK guy told me. I do not know to think now.
At the end of the day, my gun works, wouldn’t hesitate to use it against a mob of Crips in a self defense situation, it holds zero, and for $2950, I don’t feel I overpaid for how it’s functioned. Aside from handguards and length it hasn’t done anything my work HK couldn’t do.
Get what y’all want but I’m happy with my gun
ETA the “push pin” takedown pins were annoying at first but after a while I barely notice anymore.
Wouldn't hesitate to use it against a mob of crips in a self defense situation?
This thread has taken an odd turn. It's one thing to say I wouldn't hesitate to use it in any type of self defense situation I might encounter. But when you start mentioning gangs by names . . . I dunno.
Jesus Christ this place has too many lawyers for my liking anymore.
This is how you turn off people. If some dude from HK BSed me then cool. He BSed me and I believe him. Whatever but man I get enough cross examination at work.
Maybe this place has gone full hobby grade. I just hope the OP gets a freedom gat
Peace
Yikes!!! Good luck with the surgery, I hope you rehab quickly and completely.
The pain is stomping the Hades out of me right now.
[emoji91] [emoji91] [emoji91] [emoji91]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I hope all goes well and for a speedy recovery, ill keep my eyes out for the LMT stuff.
Thanks, brother!
Crazy pain.... Fvk!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
turnburglar
06-10-21, 01:08
But when you start mentioning gangs by names . . . I dunno.
When this land turns to darkness; don't be surprised when guys like Fly are warlords.
He gonna make AOC his concubine.
Thanks man I appreciate the positive vibes!
Jesus Christ this place has too many lawyers for my liking anymore.
This is how you turn off people. If some dude from HK BSed me then cool. He BSed me and I believe him. Whatever but man I get enough cross examination at work.
Maybe this place has gone full hobby grade. I just hope the OP gets a freedom gat
Peace
That sucks man but im sure youll recover!
Thanks, brother!
Crazy pain.... Fvk!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The surgery was Tues., 6/8. They gave me nerve blocks on my right quad and right arm.
Surgery was successful. The doctor stated it would be outpatient and I was in NO CONDITION to be released. My sister was my advocate and saw to it I had a room.
They asked if I was hungry (last meal was Monday at 7:00PM) and it’s now 8:00PM Tues) and I asked for red meat (B-vitamins and heme iron, amino acids, protein content). All they had was chicken. I had three bites and instant regurgitation. Too much anesthesia in my system they said. I’m not sure why it caused that but I was not nauseous before or after.
Wednesday morning was cool. The nerve block was wearing off on my leg. It was only just beginning to gain any control of my fingers.
Wednesday afternoon the pain began. It was a mild burning. The nurse gave me something in the IV and it made me a little drowsy but I chose not to sleep. Three hours later they released me.
By 6:30 PM the pain was considerable - enough to ruin a meal.I had 7.5mg of Percocet and I took one. The pain only increased. By 8PM I took an 800mg Ibuprofen. I have a very high pain tolerance which also means pills don’t stop what pain I am having.
8:30 PM both knee and elbow ARE ON FIRE. It took my undivided attention to deal with it. This continued until midnight when I fell asleep due to exhaustion.
Thurs morning... 4:30AM no pain. Still took the meds as I did not want te pain to return.
By noon it was obvious that the intense pain was gone. I think I took one Percocet every 8 hours. Skipped one before I went to bed and woke up with a little discomfort and muscle twitches in the quad. One ibuprofen and I’m good. 12 hours later I take another but there is no pain inbetween.
Friday... ZERO PAIN.
Saturday.... I’m walking outside.
Saturday night one big muscle twitch in the quad and I felt it where it’s anchored to my patella. So, one ibuprofen and back to sleep.
So now I only take one ibuprofen before I go to sleep.
I hate three arm splint. I wish to modify it but won’t.
Still taking huge amounts of supplements that have worked with both bone healing and soft tissue injuries.
Maybe I should start a thread and provide a few updates to those interested.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dang man! Well sounds like you are recovering and thats great! Youll be back to normal in no time.
The surgery was Tues., 6/8. They gave me nerve blocks on my right quad and right arm.
Surgery was successful. The doctor stated it would be outpatient and I was in NO CONDITION to be released. My sister was my advocate and saw to it I had a room.
They asked if I was hungry (last meal was Monday at 7:00PM) and it’s now 8:00PM Tues) and I asked for red meat (B-vitamins and heme iron, amino acids, protein content). All they had was chicken. I had three bites and instant regurgitation. Too much anesthesia in my system they said. I’m not sure why it caused that but I was not nauseous before or after.
Wednesday morning was cool. The nerve block was wearing off on my leg. It was only just beginning to gain any control of my fingers.
Wednesday afternoon the pain began. It was a mild burning. The nurse gave me something in the IV and it made me a little drowsy but I chose not to sleep. Three hours later they released me.
By 6:30 PM the pain was considerable - enough to ruin a meal.I had 7.5mg of Percocet and I took one. The pain only increased. By 8PM I took an 800mg Ibuprofen. I have a very high pain tolerance which also means pills don’t stop what pain I am having.
8:30 PM both knee and elbow ARE ON FIRE. It took my undivided attention to deal with it. This continued until midnight when I fell asleep due to exhaustion.
Thurs morning... 4:30AM no pain. Still took the meds as I did not want te pain to return.
By noon it was obvious that the intense pain was gone. I think I took one Percocet every 8 hours. Skipped one before I went to bed and woke up with a little discomfort and muscle twitches in the quad. One ibuprofen and I’m good. 12 hours later I take another but there is no pain inbetween.
Friday... ZERO PAIN.
Saturday.... I’m walking outside.
Saturday night one big muscle twitch in the quad and I felt it where it’s anchored to my patella. So, one ibuprofen and back to sleep.
So now I only take one ibuprofen before I go to sleep.
I hate three arm splint. I wish to modify it but won’t.
Still taking huge amounts of supplements that have worked with both bone healing and soft tissue injuries.
Maybe I should start a thread and provide a few updates to those interested.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dang man! Well sounds like you are recovering and thats great! Youll be back to normal in no time.
I’m praying so!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Here are my thoughts on piston rifles based on my experience with them. I own several Sig 516's, several MCX Virtus's, and one HK MR556. I also own several DI rifles, primarily Centurion Arms. I am a big piston fan. The ones that I have have all been 100% reliable and shoot very well. The 516's are heavy, as is the MR556, primarily being massively overbuilt in certain areas including barrels. Yes, the recoil impulse of a piston rifle is different from a DI gun, but not so punishing as to make any significant difference (imho). The real beauty of a piston rifle, aside from its reliability, is that the bcg just doesn't get dirty. Cleaning a piston rifle is a piece of cake compared to a DI rifle. Now, the real interesting piston rifle for me is the MCX Virtus. Recent reviews of this rifle have been very favorable. The ones I have (16" and 2-11.5") shoot well, and the recoil impulse is virtually the same as a DI gun. There is a strong possibility that the NGSW for the US Military will be a variant of the MCX in 6.8 caliber. Lots of info out there on this rifle if one wants to look. To be sure, for civilian use, a DI rifle is just as practical as a piston variant. But for serious use the piston rifle is still the choice of many. I have no hesitation in recommending any of the models I own and shoot to anyone interested in having a piston gun.
Didn't Sig replace the 516 with another variant?
Didn't Sig replace the 516 with another variant?
The 516 is still available and sold to LE/Mil only at this time. It is listed in both LE and Mil current catalogs from Sig in several variations. I inquired and Sig advised me that if I, now in civilian status, wanted to buy one, it was still possible to do. But they are not specifically marketing the 516 to the civilian market at present. You may be thinking of the MCX Virtus, which is undoubtedly Sig's main emphasis going forward. The MCX Virtus is a piston operated rifle but not in the same way as the 516/HK 416/LWRC models are. I have some of the MCX Virtus rifles in different barrel lengths, and enjoy shooting them. They are accurate and have less recoil than the 516/416 style rifles. Primary drawback is that, like the 516/416, they are heavy compared to the average DI rifle. Sig's entry in the NGSW competition is what many call the "MCX Gen III" (Sig calls it the "Spear") chambered in a new 6.8 round. It has some nice features including a side charging handle, which I would like to see make its way to the civilian models of the MCX.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.