View Full Version : Do you zero all your 5.56 weapons for one specific round?
Guess it could be any 5.56 piece, not just AR's, but in my case it is AR's. I zero them all with Mk318 SOST. I'll use M855 to get it as close as I can then finish off the fine tuning with Mk318. That is not the only round I have in bulk but I figure that is the one I would load mags with first if it came to that. This is regardless of 14.5", 16", or 20" barrel lengths. I figure if I ran out of Mk318 I could re-zero what I was shooting with the next item in line.
How about you guys? Do you have "designated purpose" 5.56 weapons you zero and have a specific round allotted for, i.e. maybe a DMR piece that you use with 77gr (or similar) and something else for other guns? Do you choose the round by barrel length?
Yep. Mostly 77gr TMK and it’s marked on the stock, regardless of what particular round it is zeroed with.
I load a number of different weight bullets and have quite a few rifles and got tired of going to the range not knowing how I zeroed.
Yep. 77gr TMK and it’s marked on the stock.
Good idea, hadn't thought of that since I use one round but if I did vary a piece of tape with that info on it is a prudent call.
I don't have the TMK but I do have a stock of 77gr IMI Razor.
Defaultmp3
06-15-21, 17:58
Speer Gold Dot 75 gr is what I zero for. That being said, I will chrono and see where other ammo prints in relation to that zero, and record it in a spreadsheet.
Speer Gold Dot 75 gr is what I zero for. That being said, I will chrono and see where other ammo prints in relation to that zero, and record it in a spreadsheet.
That's a good idea.
I zero almost all of mine with 75gr AE as I've been very happy with it for a GP round. The exception is my dedicated HD gun which is zeroed for 75gr Gold Dot. I have MK262 on hand but not enough to make my primary round.
My do-it-all GP carbine has an LPVO with a BDC designed around 62 gr. green tip, so that makes it a pretty good move for me. I feed my SPR a number of different heavier bullets, but I can adjust from a baseline of 75 gr. .223 to whatever I want to try out.
Precision ARs and serious use guns with IMI 77 gr and most everything else IMI 55 gr.
It is widely available and well enough made that I think IMI has represented the cross between performance and value.
These days I’m not really buying.
I stick a notecard in an ID holder with date, load, the range, and the actual group from the target. I also use the note to write the date of battery change if applicable. It has a rubber band for the barrel or optic and goes in storage with that data .
Yes. CBC Magtech 77gr, two mags worth, which are in the case with the rifle. I keep 77gr loaded in mags. The 62gr FMJ CBC stuff I have on hand is for practice and not worth fussing with the zero.
ViniVidivici
06-16-21, 02:37
Yes. "Load#1", 62gr FMJ over 24.4gr H335, regardless of purpose or barrel length.
But truth betold, all the loads we use (which include 55gr SP, 75gr BTHP, 77gr SMK) are still close enough to that same POI at 0-200 meters, ain't worth splitting hairs over.
I z with 68/69 gr 5.56 OTM, since thats what I shoot on KD ranges and also a favorite match. That gets me close enough with Barnes 70gr (critters), Fusion 62gr MSR (barrier blind), and my 62gr FMJ (practice) loads, which usually end up somewhere between Fusion MSR and M855 in velocity.
I zero almost everything for M193. Sometimes with guns with magnified optics I will then establish a second zero for a different load (like IMI 77gr) note the adjustments required to get them hitting POA (usually a couple clicks of elevation/windage) write them on a tag taped on to the stock or something and click the optic back to my M193 zero.
The one current exception is my midlength with a 1-4x on it. It’s zeroed for IMI as the primary load and M193 as the secondary…..although with as low as my supply of IMI 77s have dwindled over the last year, there’s barely any point to have anything zeroed for it now.
gunnerblue
06-16-21, 06:17
I zero most rifles with 62 grain Gold Dot of which I have a large stash. Most of what I shoot are 62 gr HPBT and soft point handloads that match the POA/POI.
The only exceptions are my spr-ish and High Power rifles which are zeroed with 77 gr matchkings
bamashooter
06-16-21, 06:31
My only different zero is my heavier stuff used with a 20" scoped govt model. And it's zeroed at 100m vs 50 for all others.
davidjinks
06-16-21, 07:06
I will initially zero my rifles with M193, mark down zero, and then move to MK262 (which is what I use), adjust zero and mark it. If I run out of MK262 it’s a simple rotation of turrets and M193 gets run.
Guess it could be any 5.56 piece, not just AR's, but in my case it is AR's. I zero them all with Mk318 SOST. I'll use M855 to get it as close as I can then finish off the fine tuning with Mk318. That is not the only round I have in bulk but I figure that is the one I would load mags with first if it came to that. This is regardless of 14.5", 16", or 20" barrel lengths. I figure if I ran out of Mk318 I could re-zero what I was shooting with the next item in line.
How about you guys? Do you have "designated purpose" 5.56 weapons you zero and have a specific round allotted for, i.e. maybe a DMR piece that you use with 77gr (or similar) and something else for other guns? Do you choose the round by barrel length?
Dial in with mk 262 clone (IMI) for all 14.5"/16" guns, 75 gr. G>D> in 11.5" guns.
As per others mark diff in m193. Use masking tape with info on lower receiver magwell of individual guns, prefer to have all pertinent info ON each firearm.
I zero my work rifle with our duty ammo and train with ball ammo; no adjustments in zero (negligible difference between the two, especially within 200y on steel or in a shoot house).
Apart from that, my personal ARs are zeroed with green tip. I'm not a precision shooter, so going between M855 and AE223/M193 isn't really a problem.
My HD AR's are zeroed with 75gr Gold Dots and I will shoot just to see where my training ammo will hit and note the difference.
My longer range AR's are sighted in with MK262 or a MK262 Clone like 77gr Razor Core ammo, then I will shoot whatever else I decide outta it and note how the number of clicks for the range and ammo down then when I am done I just return my scope to 0 and shoot a group with the MK262 just to double check that my junk is good to go.
I will write the info down and tape it to the stock or if I only fool around with shooting one extra load I will tape it on the inside of the scope cap cover.
You could always mark the turrets with different color paint pens if its a concern. Assuming it tracks.
You could always mark the turrets with different color paint pens if its a concern. Assuming it tracks.
I can zero my turrets on all but 1 of my scoped AR's so I just wright down the load and # of Elev. & the # Win.
I am however gonna use that idea about the paint pens for that particular AR tho, thank you.
I can zero my turrets on all but 1 of my scoped AR's so I just wight down the load and # of Elev. & the # Win.
I am however gonna use that idea about the paint pens for that particular AR tho, thank you.
You’re welcome. The zeroable turrets is a good idea, also. Makes it slightly harder to screw up.
I zero all, 16" and 12.5" barrel ARs, with 50g Barnes TSX loaded by Black Hills and then take a few shots with the 70 grain TSX by ASYM or my 70g TSX handloads to see where POI is without adjustment. As someone mentioned earlier, it's not much off within 200 yards and since I'm doing all in relation to HD, the POA/POI difference is not enough to keep me from hitting any "critters" that I am concerned about. Range time is all M855, preferably from IMI as I feel that's some quality stuff to have a bunch of if I have it stored for a long time.
As expected the heavier, slower 70 grain rounds do print a little lower than the speedy 50g BH pills, but again, it's close enough that I'm not having to do any math before shooting.
Definitely zero all of them with 77 gr OTMs. If we sling some other type of bullet, we'll get sighter on paper to check for POI adjustments.
I zero my ARs with 62gr Gold Dot.
Range ammo is usually 55gr and 62gr which doesn’t affect zero a lot, for range fun at least.
I have a number guns and a number of decent defense ammos stocked.
So... I have some more serious guns, that are zeroed with a specific ammo. Like 77gr. MK. 262 clone for my Recce. 75gr. Gold dot on my 11.5”
Other guns that see mostly range time are zeroed either for 55gr m193 or 62gr. Federal fusion that I have a ton of. The fed fusion is kind of like my back up defense round.
My HD/cool gun is now 11.5” and suppressed; it is currently zero’d for Hornady’s SBR load. However…that supply is very lean at the moment.
I used to zero for IMI 77gr, but realistically have switched to XM193 on everything else, since that is what I have a good supply of. I’d I can ever get to a decent outdoor range, I’ll zero a BRT stainless barrel upper with the 77gr.
I primarily zero with some form of mk262 load either BH or IMI. Offset using up premium ammo with hand loads.
Five_Point_Five_Six
06-21-21, 09:35
My HD gun is zeroed and loaded with 75gr Gold Dots.
My training gun is zeroed with whatever ammo I'm shooting at the time.
Like most of the others who replied, I currently have all my 5.56 ARs zeroed for the IMI 77gr SMK load at 100 yds.
My training / range ammo is mostly some flavor of M193, but the deltas between that and the SMK don't seem to be that big of a deal for what I'm doing.
I'm working on a 20" rifle build at the moment that will wear a TA11H. I think he'll be an exception to the above and get zero'd with M193. Still thinking about it, though...
I zero my long guns with basic 55gr FMJ 5.56, because thats what i own mostly.
MikhailBarracuda91
06-21-21, 15:58
Like most of the others who replied, I currently have all my 5.56 ARs zeroed for the IMI 77gr SMK load at 100 yds.
My training / range ammo is mostly some flavor of M193, but the deltas between that and the SMK don't seem to be that big of a deal for what I'm doing.
I'm working on a 20" rifle build at the moment that will wear a TA11H. I think he'll be an exception to the above and get zero'd with M193. Still thinking about it, though...I zero with IMI 77gr. The best part about doing that is you can still shoot steel out to 400 and make hits using M193. I've confirmed this on a 14.5, 16, and 20 inch barrels.
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I zero with IMI 77gr. The best part about doing that is you can still shoot steel out to 400 and make hits using M193. I've confirmed this on a 14.5, 16, and 20 inch barrels.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
You have a TA11H zeroed with IMI 77gr? If so, that's definitely interesting info! The new 20" I'm looking at will be a simple general purpose rifle, so I doubt I'd ever shoot it much past 400 to 500 yards anyway.
I'll have to play with the trajectories some in Strelok...
MikhailBarracuda91
06-21-21, 17:00
You have a TA11H zeroed with IMI 77gr? If so, that's definitely interesting info! The new 20" I'm looking at will be a simple general purpose rifle, so I doubt I'd ever shoot it much past 400 to 500 yards anyway.
I'll have to play with the trajectories some in Strelok...I have a TA-31F on the 20" and it's zeroed for the Razorcore
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Gotcha...Thanks for the intel!
Like most of the others who replied, I currently have all my 5.56 ARs zeroed for the IMI 77gr SMK load at 100 yds.
My training / range ammo is mostly some flavor of M193, but the deltas between that and the SMK don't seem to be that big of a deal for what I'm doing.
I'm working on a 20" rifle build at the moment that will wear a TA11H. I think he'll be an exception to the above and get zero'd with M193. Still thinking about it, though...
Hell I'd zero that one with the 77gr IMI round. It'll get even better terminal performance at range out of the 20" barrel.
Not being critical at all, but I am slightly surprised by the number of M4C folks who zero for either a 75gr or a 77gr load. The IMI Razor is my second go-to ammo, after the Mk318. I have as much of it as I do of the Mk318. My only deciding factor was what level of penetration should I expect to need in a "SHTF" :rolleyes: or home-defense scenario? I calculated that the Mk318 had a decent mix of barrier penetration and good terminal ballistics. Sorry, didn't mean to sidetrack into an ammo discussion.
….
My only deciding factor was what level of penetration should I expect to need in a "SHTF" :rolleyes: or home-defense scenario?
….
That’s a good point.
vicious_cb
06-21-21, 19:27
Not being critical at all, but I am slightly surprised by the number of M4C folks who zero for either a 75gr or a 77gr load. The IMI Razor is my second go-to ammo, after the Mk318. I have as much of it as I do of the Mk318. My only deciding factor was what level of penetration should I expect to need in a "SHTF" :rolleyes: or home-defense scenario? I calculated that the Mk318 had a decent mix of barrier penetration and good terminal ballistics. Sorry, didn't mean to sidetrack into an ammo discussion.
Why is that surprising? Some of the best terminally performing rounds are in the 75/77gr range. I can name one bullet in the 55gr range that has good performance by modern standards and thats the 50gr or 55gr TSX and the 70gr TSX still does better.
Yes, that makes sense, RE: 75/77gr range.
Mine are zero'd with an mk262 clone or Fusion.
kenboyles72
06-21-21, 21:00
My zero's depend on how I'm going to be shooting and at what distance. Around my area, I will be lucky to get over a 150 yard shot, maybe longer if shooting down a electric or pipeline ROW. Most of my shots will be under 100, 50-75 more likely. I have my AR zeroed at 50 yrds with 55gr. With that zero, bullet weight up to 77gr doesn't have that big POI difference. I mostly shoot 55 and 62 gr and POI is negligible, have only fired few of my BIL's 77gr when we were all down at the range together. Can't remember how far it was off, but not enough to make a difference. I shoot hogs all the time here, brush is thick, so no long distance shots.
Not being critical at all, but I am slightly surprised by the number of M4C folks who zero for either a 75gr or a 77gr load.
For me it came down to what accurate, well made (sealed primers, crimped etc) ammo I could get in quantity.
I can name one bullet in the 55gr range that has good performance by modern standards and thats the 50gr or 55gr TSX and the 70gr TSX still does better.
Gold Dot 55 grain is not good?
vicious_cb
06-22-21, 00:29
Gold Dot 55 grain is not good?
It doesnt do so well against auto glass so I never really considered it over the 62/64gr and 75gr.
Supposedly it only exists to feed those agencies who inherited M16A1s.
ffhounddog
06-22-21, 07:21
Guatemalan M193. (It is my older stuff) I have 55 grain gold dot for my general purpose load for my first 5000 rounds.
my Mk12 is sighted in with 75 grain frontier because I got a few 100's a few years ago.
My 10.5 Lwrci just to give Markem a headache is.....62 grain PMC M855.
My 11.5 Knights is 62 grain PMC M855.
daddyusmaximus
06-22-21, 07:51
Nope.
My SBR is zeroed for the IMI 77 Grain SMK OTM LR MOD-1.
That's what I'll be starting off with if/when the balloon goes up.
I have twice the 193 in my stash for later, but it's not really set up to be a precision weapon.
My 18" Larue Stealth 2.0, however, is capable of great precision, and I zeroed it with the Hornady 75 gr TAP it likes.
In the end, all ammo is "close enough for government work" as we used to say.
I use a 50 yd zero, and it's COM shots for everyone. Especially at the distances I'll likely see.
I could pick either, with any ammo, and service any target in need within my AO should things come to that.
I'm not too worried about changing over when one type has been exhausted.
If I really want to be precise I'll grab a bolt gun, and relax.
ARs are (to me) for fast dirty work.
The_War_Wagon
06-22-21, 10:03
Nope.
In the end, all ammo is "close enough for government work" as we used to say.
I use a 50 yd zero, and it's COM shots for everyone. Especially at the distances I'll likely see.
I could pick either, with any ammo, and service any target in need within my AO should things come to that.
I'm not too worried about changing over when one type has been exhausted.
If I really want to be precise I'll grab a bolt gun, and relax.
ARs are (to me) for fast dirty work.
Save for my SPR, this.
GREAT thing about getting old; being "on paper" is as big a celebration as bullseyes USED to be.
Hell I'd zero that one with the 77gr IMI round. It'll get even better terminal performance at range out of the 20" barrel.
Not being critical at all, but I am slightly surprised by the number of M4C folks who zero for either a 75gr or a 77gr load. The IMI Razor is my second go-to ammo, after the Mk318. I have as much of it as I do of the Mk318. My only deciding factor was what level of penetration should I expect to need in a "SHTF" :rolleyes: or home-defense scenario? I calculated that the Mk318 had a decent mix of barrier penetration and good terminal ballistics. Sorry, didn't mean to sidetrack into an ammo discussion.
The more I think about it, the more I am leaning toward just zeroing the ACOG on the new 20" with the IMI 77. It looks fairly decent on the ballistic calculator, but I'll have to play with it a bit on the range when the rifle is done. I don't have good velocity data for that load in a 20" so my calculator results so far are a swag at best.
I wish I had a stash of mk318, but I somehow managed to miss the boat on that round when it was available in the past. I have a few hundred rounds of 5.56 FBIT3 loaded in mags that can fill in the "barrier blind" role if needed. If mk318 is ever available again for non-ridiculous prices, I'm gonna definitely grab some. Same goes for 855A1.
All of my 5.56 guns are zeroed to my varmint load, because it is what I shoot the most of. The POI shift between that load (60gr Nosler Ballistic Tip) and my stash of 64gr Nosler BSBs and 62gr Gold Dots is negligible out to 300.
I zero with our 77 grain load that is 77SMK, TMK, Nosler. I'm not shooting anybody at 100 yards ( I hope) so all should be close enough for a CQB sitch. Even my 69 grain or 62 Gold dots should be close enough. An inch or two in the chest is GTG.
PB
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