View Full Version : 2021 Gunfight: Arvada, CO: LEO, CCW, & BG- and coming gun laws.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-23-21, 01:26
Officer dispatched due to suspicious activity in the historic Old Arvada towncenter. When officer Beesley arrives to investigate, he is ambushed, and killed. The perp was laying in wait to kill an officer.
John Hurley, shopping in an Army Surplus store hears the shot, and tells everyone to take cover, draws his CCW and leaves the store. He can see the shooter coming, tells outdoor lunchtime diners to go inside. He engages the bad guy with 5-6 shots wounding him. Unfortunately, John Hurley is also mortally wounded. Bad guy either succumbs to Hurley's shots of shoots himself (unclear). Officer Beesley, John Hurley and the scumbag all die. The exact circumstances of Hurley's being shot have not been released. Police say that Hurley likely stopped there from being more widespread death and carnage.
Shooting happened Jun21 about 1:15. They have been slow rolling this story out over the past 24 hours. Hurley was originally called a 'good Samaritan". And Audie Murphy was an actor.
gunman wore all black, including a tactical vest, and calmly fired a rifle.
"He didn't seem worried about anything," said Wiest, who stared at the gunman as he stood near the body of a man, apparently the fallen policeman, in the street. He said he saw the shooter calmly survey the scene
And another zonked out shooter.
Beesley, a 19-year veteran with the department since 2002, worked as a patrol officer, field training officer, motorcycle officer and as a school resource officer at Oberon Middle School.
Hurley was just a good guy with a gun who saw a bad guy with a gun and put him down hard, and paid for it with his life.
This past weekend, our Gov. Jared Polis signed three more anti-civil rights laws meant to further burden law abiding gun owners. The most impactful was a statewide 'preemption law' that will allow local cities to put sweeping clampdowns on CCWing and firearms in general.
Here's to Gordon Beesley who was 'just doing his job', and John Hurley who stepped up when it wasn't his job.
I'm sickened by the way the press is covering this officer when a year ago it was all negative coverage about officers- and the perp had a “expressed hatred” for law enforecement. Considering the dude is dead, you can only infer that he had a history of violence and threats.
https://conandaily.com/2021/06/23/john-hurley-biography-10-things-about-golden-colorado-man-ronald-troyke-shot/
https://conandaily.com/2021/06/22/gordon-beesley-biography-13-things-about-arvada-colorado-cop-ronald-troyke-shot/
Bad deal.
How does that line go? "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"?
Hope Colorado enjoys their new Utopia. Fuktards.
Damn, I have friends that live a third of a mile from there. I can't find any mention of the shooter's name, I assume he doesn't have a name that would fit the agenda.
Damn, I have friends that live a third of a mile from there. I can't find any mention of the shooter's name, I assume he doesn't have a name that would fit the agenda.
The shooters name is listed in the OP’s linked article.
To dems/MSM, cops are either heroes or villains depending on what serves the agenda best at the time.
There has been a lot of coverage on Beesley's killing...and the "bystander". I guess we're in a "cops are heroes" cycle now that orange man is gone.
On a relate topic, I'm not sure it's worth even keeping a CO CCW anymore. If I didn't already have one, I certainly wouldn't register myself as a gunowner with the state in order to get one now.
Business_Casual
06-23-21, 13:28
What a coincidence that the shooter wore all black and shot a cop with a rifle at this time.
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-23-21, 14:50
To dems/MSM, cops are either heroes or villains depending on what serves the agenda best at the time.
There has been a lot of coverage on Beesley's killing...and the "bystander". I guess we're in a "cops are heroes" cycle now that orange man is gone.
On a relate topic, I'm not sure it's worth even keeping a CO CCW anymore. If I didn't already have one, I certainly wouldn't register myself as a gunowner with the state in order to get one now.
Bad enough here. But to come here with an out of state CCW and try to parse the laws that are potentially going to pass. It will be un-manageable. And that isn't a bug of their plans, that is a feature. Make it so hard to follow the law, that people will just give up.
Polis really has pissed me off. He has tried to come across as middle of the road guy, but this is just bad governance. I'm pretty sure that he runs again next year. I don't care if we end up with Chewbacca from the Denver City Council, I want to do everything to make sure that ass hat doesn't get re-elected and ruin his chances of every running for POTUS/VP
Bad enough here. But to come here with an out of state CCW and try to parse the laws that are potentially going to pass. It will be un-manageable. And that isn't a bug of their plans, that is a feature. Make it so hard to follow the law, that people will just give up.
Polis really has pissed me off. He has tried to come across as middle of the road guy, but this is just bad governance. I'm pretty sure that he runs again next year. I don't care if we end up with Chewbacca from the Denver City Council, I want to do everything to make sure that ass hat doesn't get re-elected and ruin his chances of every running for POTUS/VP
Agreed on all counts!
FromMyColdDeadHand
06-23-21, 18:43
https://kdvr.com/news/local/manager-of-army-navy-surplus-shares-detailed-account-of-olde-town-shooting-good-samaritans-heroic-actions/
More about John Hurley.
The shooters name is listed in the OP’s linked article.
Yup I missed that. Almost nothing online after a quick Google search though, even the OP site is just about nothing.
From the reporting I saw this morning, it seems like maybe it's starting to look like another Arvada officer might have been the one that shot John Hurley...Be interesting to see how that plays out over the next couple days.
KUSA has had a couple pretty positive stories about Mr Hurley, which is both surprising and refreshing. Given the way things have been leaning in this state, I figured it'd be a cold day in hell before the Colorado media reported anything resembling a story about a citizen with a CCW stopping a larger tragedy.
RIP John Hurley
Say his name...
ViniVidivici
06-24-21, 22:23
Was given this link by a friend:
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/good-samaritan-who-died-in-arvada-shooting-was-shot-by-police-according-to-sources
Looks like WAS shot by responding LE, which would be VERY easy to happen on a scene like that.
Pressingonward
06-24-21, 22:37
Dang. I've thought about that myself a bit - if involved in a self defense (or defense of others like this case) shooting, how to avoid then getting shot by accident in a chaotic scene?
Good for him though for not hesitating to defend others. My prayers go out to his family as well as the family of the original victim
I can think of two events off the top of my head in Florida.
First one is where parents in the drop off lane probably prevented a school shooting when they basically grabbed a gun and went and got their kids while doing the "F you, out of my way I'm rescuing my kid and anyone else who wants to go outside with me."
Second was a guy who pulled over to help a police officer who was under fire or had been shot (I kept getting two versions of the story) and actually shot at least one of the bad guys.
Neither one was reported but I knew too many people peripherally involved for them to be urban legend. Ironically everyone was told to STFU about it.
ViniVidivici
06-25-21, 03:33
Dang. I've thought about that myself a bit - if involved in a self defense (or defense of others like this case) shooting, how to avoid then getting shot by accident in a chaotic scene?
Good for him though for not hesitating to defend others. My prayers go out to his family as well as the family of the original victim
Yep, that is a major concern when it comes to getting involved in these things. Hell, off-duty LE have come close to being shot, same scenario.
Best you could hope for is, at the very first sign of them approaching, drop whatever's in your hands and get spread-eagled RFN.
Believe it or not, I've actually heard fools say this is why they carry "cee cee dubyah" badges........stupid frickin idiots. DO NOT do that.
Yep, that is a major concern when it comes to getting involved in these things. Hell, off-duty LE have come close to being shot, same scenario.
Best you could hope for is, at the very first sign of them approaching, drop whatever's in your hands and get spread-eagled RFN.
Believe it or not, I've actually heard fools say this is why they carry "cee cee dubyah" badges........stupid frickin idiots. DO NOT do that.
Happens in Florida from time to time. Plainclothes guys with a badge on the belt get zipped by uniformed even though they radioed in that they would be responding. UC guys, forget it, they learned a long time ago be last to show up. Even if you hang your badge around your neck Flava Flav style, some dipshit will still probably shoot you because we have decades of "man with gun = bad" shit that has been hammered in everyone's head.
The truth about Miami Vice is Sonny and Tubbs would have been killed by a uniform in the third episode.
ThirdWatcher
06-25-21, 05:57
Several years ago I backed another Officer on a man-with-a-gun call. The man had his pistol pointed at another citizen and the Officer was yelling at the man to drop the weapon and due to the man’s tunnel vision he didn’t hear the voice commands at first. Fortunately no rounds were fired and the man (investigation revealed was really a good Samaritan) dropped his weapon. Bottom line: if you’re gonna get the involved, do not get tunnel vision. The responding uniformed Patrol Officers are in change, end of story.
Dang. I've thought about that myself a bit - if involved in a self defense (or defense of others like this case) shooting, how to avoid then getting shot by accident in a chaotic scene?
Nix the indoctrination that private citizen + firearm somehow equals up to no good would be a start.
Nix the indoctrination that private citizen + firearm somehow equals up to no good would be a start.
After four, possibly five decades of that indoctrination, that is a big ask.
After four, possibly five decades of that indoctrination, that is a big ask.
Maybe some locales need to start over from scratch then.
Coal Dragger
06-27-21, 07:08
Was given this link by a friend:
https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/good-samaritan-who-died-in-arvada-shooting-was-shot-by-police-according-to-sources
Looks like WAS shot by responding LE, which would be VERY easy to happen on a scene like that.
Well that sucks.
Recently had a class for the South Dakota advanced pistol permit, and there was a dude in class who kept asking questions about how to respond to an active shooter. The officer giving the class tried over and over and over again to explain to this dude that it was a bad idea to get involved, because of incidents like this. You’re just some random dude with a gun on a man with gun, or active shooter call. You’re probably going to get shot by responding officers.
This guy didn’t get it. He was also carrying a snub nosed .38 with a 5 round cylinder, couldn’t hit shit, and didn’t have any way to reload aside from loose rounds. Not sure how he would expect to take on Baddy McBadface blasting away at the local mall with a long gun while armed with a Taurus M85.
Seeing as Uncle Sam doesn’t pay me to go find trouble anymore, my ass is getting out of the area if possible with the number 1 priority getting the wife and little boy to safety if they are around. I’m not protecting anyone else if there’s any unnecessary risk to me. Sorry that’s selfish, but I’m not getting shot by the po-po who assume I’m a bad guy to save some stranger’s ass.
Any civvy training that does not go over this likelihood in depth is run by morons. It should include in depth info on how to deal with it when they arrest you (very likely even in legit self defense) and also on ways to minimize your chances of being shot by responding officers. It happens literally ALL THE F'ING TIME!
Sure, cops could maybe use more training on this. Same could be said for a lot of situations. But hell, if all the cops are in training for this that or the other who is gonna be on the street. And yeah, training overload, it's a thing.
Bottom line, saving your ass or others from the bad guy(s) is half of the job. Don't drop the ball and get yourself killed by responding officers. If this guy had kicked the rifle away from the downed shooter and not been holding it when officers arrived he probably would not have gotten his ticket punched. Not saying he deserved it, but shit happens. If you choose to insert yourself into a dangerous situation to help yourself and others, good on you. But you are sticking your head in the Lions mouth. Don't forget where you are!
Lengthy discussion on P-F indicted he picked up the rifle (presumably to clear it) and that was likely the largest contributing factor.
Gonna go with the type of training/indoctrination as a cause of the negative outcome in many cases.
With any luck there will be some 3rd party film footage of the incident pop up so everyone gets to see if claims match reality.
If you choose to insert yourself into a dangerous situation to help yourself and others, good on you. But you are sticking your head in the Lions mouth. Don't forget where you are!
A statement worthy of repeating.
Maybe some locales need to start over from scratch then.
Why? They certainly don't think "they" are doing anything wrong. This problem happens when civilians (which ironically includes nearly all levels of LE) don't leave the work to the "professionals."
And sometimes they have a point, but other times the actual first responders are not "professional" but they are here and now and they really need a better plan for that than "hey I saw a guy with a gun so I shot him."
We are constantly told "don't go out there, call the police." "Don't get involved, call the police." "Don't intervene, wait for the police." And then sometimes even when the police do get there they can be "Not my job, move along sir or I'll arrest you."
The answer is of course community policing. But problem communities don't want the police there at all and lots of LEOs don't want to live in any community where they actually work. So many, many problems. You would think nobody remembers the 60s when they were called "pigs" and the massive effort that was undertaken during the 70s and 80s to change that image.
Why? They certainly don't think "they" are doing anything wrong. This problem happens when civilians (which ironically includes nearly all levels of LE) don't leave the work to the "professionals."
And sometimes they have a point, but other times the actual first responders are not "professional" but they are here and now and they really need a better plan for that than "hey I saw a guy with a gun so I shot him."
We are constantly told "don't go out there, call the police." "Don't get involved, call the police." "Don't intervene, wait for the police." And then sometimes even when the police do get there they can be "Not my job, move along sir or I'll arrest you."
The answer is of course community policing. But problem communities don't want the police there at all and lots of LEOs don't want to live in any community where they actually work. So many, many problems. You would think nobody remembers the 60s when they were called "pigs" and the massive effort that was undertaken during the 70s and 80s to change that image.
Mentioned before, the exemptions from law(codified or professional courtesy) needs to go from top to bottom(meaning not just police). Since "they" don't like that idea, the start over from scratch in many areas would be the only way that would work. I know it won't happen, so here we are.
The 70s and 80s PR effort hasn't held up well to the advent of commonly available video recording devices.
titsonritz
06-30-21, 11:48
Not a bad write-up given the circumstances of Hurley's unfortunate death...
Post-Shooting Procedures for the Active Killer Gunfight (https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/post-shooting-procedures-for-the-active-killer-gunfight)
Not a bad write-up given the circumstances of Hurley's unfortunate death...
Post-Shooting Procedures for the Active Killer Gunfight (https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/post-shooting-procedures-for-the-active-killer-gunfight)
Need to put some burden on the officers as well. As can be seen in other videos where 2A protestors have notified police in advance, they still arrive on scene amped up and hassle citizens over holstered pistols.
Still really doubt the Hurley holding a rifle claim. They have released video of jackass arriving, shooting the officer, and grabbing the rifle, but the video released cuts off while he is halfway down the area in view of the camera.
Lawsuit and more info. The "responding officers" line seems a bit misleading.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/06/22/johnny-hurley-arvada-police-lawsuit/
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