View Full Version : The British Gun Control Story
This was forwarded to me by a friend in the UK. Educational reading for us over here:
You are sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom....
Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers.
At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.
With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your
shotgun. You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it. In the darkness, you make out two shadows.
*One holds something that looks like a crowbar.. When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire. The blast knocks both thugs to the floor. One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside. As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble.
In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few That are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless. Yours was never registered. Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died. They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.. When you talk to your attorney, he
tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.
"What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask.
"Only ten-to-twelve years," he replies, as if that's nothing. "Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."
The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper.
Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys. Their friends and relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them. Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times. But the next day's headline says it all: "Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die." The thieves have been transformed from career
criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters. As the days wear on, the story takes wings. The national media picks it up, then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero..
Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win. The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects. After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time.
The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars.
A few months later, you go to trial. The charges haven't been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted. When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you. Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man. It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges..
The judge sentences you to life in prison.
This case really happened.
On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second. In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term.
How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire ?
It started with the Pistols Act of 1903. This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license. The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns.
Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.
Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed Man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw. When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.
The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)
Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland , Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.
For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals. Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners. Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns. The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later,
Sealed the fate of the few sidearm still owned by private citizens.
During the years in which the British government incrementally took Away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism. Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun. Citizens
who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.
Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, "We cannot have people take the law into their own hands."
All of Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.
When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities. Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply. Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.
How did the authorities know who had handguns? The guns had been registered and licensed. Kinda like cars.
Sound familiar?
WAKE UP AMERICA , THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.
"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
--Samuel Adams
Here are a couple of stories I found that highlight the case.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/3153172.stm
http://news.scotsman.com/tonymartin/Blunkett-Why-was-Martin-burglar.2447144.jp
The most interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/jul/03/ukcrime.prisonsandprobation
Law review could help battered wives who kill
Self defence claim may reduce murder charge to manslaughter
People who overreact when defending themselves from an attack or an anticipated attack may be entitled in future to be convicted of manslaughter rather than murder.
The reform, under consideration by the law commission, could help householders like the Norfolk farmer Tony Martin who use excessive force against burglars. It could also be invoked by battered wives who suddenly snap and kill their husbands.
The commission, the official law reform body for England and Wales, has been asked by the Home Office to look at the existing "partial defences" to murder - diminished responsibility and provocation - which, if successfully pleaded, cut murder to manslaughter, and to consider whether self defence with excessive force should be added.
At present, self defence is a complete defence to a murder charge, entitling the defendant to be found not guilty, but only if the amount of force used was proportionate to the threat. If the force was excessive, the defendant is guilty of murder.
Critics of this law argue that, in the heat of the moment, it can be difficult to gauge how much force is reasonable. While murder carries an automatic life sentence, defendants convicted of manslaughter may walk free or face any sentence up to life imprisonment, depending on the circumstances.
Martin was convicted of murder but his conviction was reduced to manslaughter on appeal because of diminished responsibility. His life sentence was cut to five years.
The review, backed strongly by the solicitor general, Harriet Harman, as part of the effort to strengthen the law on domestic violence, will look particularly at the use of partial defences in domestic violence cases, but will consider their application to murder in general. Killing through a suicide pact and infanticide will not be included.
The commission will consider whether diminished responsibility and provocation should continue to be partial defences to murder and, if so, whether they should be combined in a single defence or remain separate.
The study will be backed by research in which people around the country will given a range of scenarios and asked for their opinions on them.
Various options for reform will be set out in a consultation paper promised by the end of October. The commission has agreed to produce a final report and recommendations by spring 2004, in time for amendments to be made to domestic violence legislation due to be introduced this autumn.
· A claim for damages by Brendon Fearon, the burglar shot by Tony Martin, is to be heard between February and April next year. A high court procedural judge yesterday fixed the "trial window" for the action being brought by Fearon, who recently won the right to sue Martin for a reported £15,000 damages for wounds he received during the break-in at the farmer's home in Emneth Hungate, Norfolk, during August 1999.
The hearing is expected to take five days and involve legal arguments over the effects of a psychiatric disorder Martin was said to have had at the time of the break-in. Raising the possibility of a counter-claim by Martin against Fearon, Chris Corney, appearing for Martin, said: "We believe our client suffered injury as a result of the actions of the claimant."
* guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2008
Pretty sad state of affairs when one considers where the Magna Carta originated. Is English society so far gone that they fail to recognize what they have done to their country and their people?
Thats really sad.......and this is what Obama bin biden and the brady campaign want! Criminals in this country would run rampant here killing and robbing as they please
I'm an Englishman. I moved to the States last year. I work for a security firm in Miami. I remember these stories well.
A couple of things to point out which I think tipped the scales for the treatment of Tony Martin.
The shotgun he used was one which he wasn't licensed to keep. There was no reason why as a someone who owned a farm he couldn't (that I can see) have had a shotgun licensed with the authorities. I don't agree with the laws, but they are the laws.
The story in the first post would lead you to believe that these kids were at his bedroom door about to do him harm. This is not accurate. It's my recollection that after being burgled numerous times he had become a light sleeper and disturbed the burglary and begun firing at them downstairs from the stairwell. The intruder that died was shot in the back whilst trying to get out of one of the windows. This no doubt didn't look so good to the cops and castrated public.
Do I think that the law has abandoned the British? Yes. Do I think he should of spent one day in jail anyway in spite of some of the questionable actions he took? No.
Thomas Hamilton, the man who killed 17 children in Scotland, with two semi automatic pistols should NEVER of had those pistols. The two firearms officers who evaluated his license decided that he was mentally unfit to hold them. Hamilton then spoke to their superior who was a drinking buddy of his and had the decision over turned.
England has it all backwards. They are the nanny state. If some can be hurt doing it and it has no 'proper social use or function' it gets banned or legislated against. Gun crime is spiraling out of control year after year. People are now terrified that if they defend themselves they'll wind up in jail. I don't think it will ever get that bad over here but then I look at California. :) SMIOK
Danny,
As whacko as California is as it pertains to firearms, juries for the most part have common sense when it comes to self-defense. One just has to tread a little lighter than normal.
I'm an Englishman. I moved to the States last year. I work for a security firm in Miami. I remember these stories well.
A couple of things to point out which I think tipped the scales for the treatment of Tony Martin.
The shotgun he used was one which he wasn't licensed to keep. There was no reason why as a someone who owned a farm he couldn't (that I can see) have had a shotgun licensed with the authorities. I don't agree with the laws, but they are the laws.
The story in the first post would lead you to believe that these kids were at his bedroom door about to do him harm. This is not accurate. It's my recollection that after being burgled numerous times he had become a light sleeper and disturbed the burglary and begun firing at them downstairs from the stairwell. The intruder that died was shot in the back whilst trying to get out of one of the windows. This no doubt didn't look so good to the cops and castrated public.
Do I think that the law has abandoned the British? Yes. Do I think he should of spent one day in jail anyway in spite of some of the questionable actions he took? No.
Thomas Hamilton, the man who killed 17 children in Scotland, with two semi automatic pistols should NEVER of had those pistols. The two firearms officers who evaluated his license decided that he was mentally unfit to hold them. Hamilton then spoke to their superior who was a drinking buddy of his and had the decision over turned.
England has it all backwards. They are the nanny state. If some can be hurt doing it and it has no 'proper social use or function' it gets banned or legislated against. Gun crime is spiraling out of control year after year. People are now terrified that if they defend themselves they'll wind up in jail. I don't think it will ever get that bad over here but then I look at California. :) SMIOK
Danny Boy,
I'm originally from London and here 7 years. I have fond memories of pistol shooting as a kid in the UK until Ryan went on the rampage. Now the British Olympic pistol team has to practice in FRANCE of all places! I just had to laugh when they started talking about a ban on large pointed kitchen knives. The country has totally lost the plot. I think I'll stay in VA!
SloaneRanger
12-10-08, 17:00
Pretty sad state of affairs when one considers where the Magna Carta originated. Is English society so far gone that they fail to recognize what they have done to their country and their people?
Sadly yes.
Nice to see some more ex-pats here. I moved out here in April 1991. Born in Walton-On-Thames. Spent most of my adult life in Poole, Dorset. Man I do miss it sometimes. So, so sad what has happened there since I left.
We have another post on the demise of the 'Britishness' of Britain here somewhere.
Roger that Sloane. The only thing I miss about the UK is decent beer (sorry my fellow Americans, but Bud Light is an aberration) and Essex Girls!!
On a more serious not though, pretty much every Brit in the US that I've met is staunchly pro-2a, but maybe it's just the circles that I move in. My American wife has learned to take it in her stride when I'm hurling abuse at Gordon Brown and his latest strokes of genius on the BBC.
I'm an Englishman. I moved to the States last year. I work for a security firm in Miami. I remember these stories well.
A couple of things to point out which I think tipped the scales for the treatment of Tony Martin.
The shotgun he used was one which he wasn't licensed to keep. There was no reason why as a someone who owned a farm he couldn't (that I can see) have had a shotgun licensed with the authorities. I don't agree with the laws, but they are the laws.
The story in the first post would lead you to believe that these kids were at his bedroom door about to do him harm. This is not accurate. It's my recollection that after being burgled numerous times he had become a light sleeper and disturbed the burglary and begun firing at them downstairs from the stairwell. The intruder that died was shot in the back whilst trying to get out of one of the windows. This no doubt didn't look so good to the cops and castrated public.
Do I think that the law has abandoned the British? Yes. Do I think he should of spent one day in jail anyway in spite of some of the questionable actions he took? No.
Thomas Hamilton, the man who killed 17 children in Scotland, with two semi automatic pistols should NEVER of had those pistols. The two firearms officers who evaluated his license decided that he was mentally unfit to hold them. Hamilton then spoke to their superior who was a drinking buddy of his and had the decision over turned.
England has it all backwards. They are the nanny state. If some can be hurt doing it and it has no 'proper social use or function' it gets banned or legislated against. Gun crime is spiraling out of control year after year. People are now terrified that if they defend themselves they'll wind up in jail. I don't think it will ever get that bad over here but then I look at California. :) SMIOK
Regardless of Mr. Martin's questionable actions, I personally am of the belief that it was his home, and THEY made the choice to enter it ILLEGALLY so he should have walked. Now I do not mean for this post to come across as the internet/water cooler bravado bullshit that so many people say. I my self may not respond to a break in the way I want due to laws. But I am saying that I disagree with how many of the cases are pursued by the prosecutors and perceived by the public. So many say that, just because someone is taking something from you that does not warrant killing them. For the most part I agree but if you are home and someone comes in, you don't know what they want or how far they are willing to go for it. Lets also not forget that it is the trespasser that has taken their own life and made their own assessment that their life is worth what ever they might find in somewhere they are not supposed to be. So if I am on the jury then not guilty it will be I don't care. Something else to think on is that when someone steals something from you they are stealing parts of your life. What I mean is this, we trade our time ,our life for money. So as an example if you make 20.00$ an hour and someone steals a 200.00$ T.V. from you they have effectively just stolen 10 hours of your life, and as we all know we cannot buy more time. These are things to think about. So many laws should not even be there, and many more are being twisted to serve some distorted purpose.
Just a thought, sorry for the rant I just get tired of this apathetic attitude of (read these next words imagining HEAVY sarcasm)" well I don't like it, but it is the law:rolleyes: so under the bus you go"
Cheers
sorry my fellow Americans, but Bud Light is an aberration)
While I agree with your statement here, you can buy beer here that is just as good as any overseas, you just have to look, and sadly pay through the nose. Also, if you look hard enough you will likely find a distributor that has or can get you just about any brand you want from Europe.
On a more serious not though, pretty much every Brit in the US that I've met is staunchly pro-2a, but maybe it's just the circles that I move in. My American wife has learned to take it in her stride when I'm hurling abuse at Gordon Brown and his latest strokes of genius on the BBC.
What is sad is that where I work we have a Scott, a Brit, a German, and a Russian, that all have a better knowledge and support of our constitution that 90% of those I work with. I guess there is something to be said about earning you citizenship.
Failure2Stop
12-10-08, 20:14
. . . if you are home and someone comes in, you don't know what they want or how far they are willing to go for it. Lets also not forget that it is the trespasser that has taken their own life and made their own assessment that their life is worth what ever they might find in somewhere they are not supposed to be.
Yes. Let us never forget that it is not our task to ask why that man is raping/murdering your wife/daughter. The time it takes to identify the difference between breach and violation is too small to alter response.
The fact of the matter is that too many would rather be victims than human.
I pity those that must quietly succumb, and cannot fathom why our great nation had sacrificed you to such a fate.
I can see no evidence that begging for help will solve a serious problem, and I hope that you (non-personal you) too are prepared for such an occurrence.
Just a thought, sorry for the rant I just get tired of this apathetic attitude of (read these next words imagining HEAVY sarcasm)" well I don't like it, but it is the law:rolleyes: so under the bus you go"
I was referring more specifically about gun restrictions and laws pertaining to what types you may own, much the same as it applies in this country. He could of done himself a massive favor and chosen to keep a legal firearm, rather than one that was guaranteed to land him in trouble if he used it.
The issue of use of force in self defense and whether or not it was excessive or even warranted I agree is a non-starter. Those scrotes shouldn't of been in his house in the first place, they got what they deserved and more people should do the same. But the British public are FAR too civilized to just say that. They are scared into accepting that it's better to be carried by six than tried by twelve. And they say that fear is what drives Americans?
The smartest thing Mr Martin could of done would of been to not call the cops and used them to feed the local pigs.
What is sad is that where I work we have a Scott, a Brit, a German, and a Russian, that all have a better knowledge and support of our constitution that 90% of those I work with. I guess there is something to be said about earning you citizenship.
We know what it's like to have the small and big things stripped away and possibly value them more than the natives as we know what it's like not to have them. It's also partly why I opted to pay it back some by enlisting in the US Army for 4 years (woo hoo).
The only thing I miss about the UK is decent beer (sorry my fellow Americans, but Bud Light is an aberration) and Essex Girls!!
I miss Guinness. It's not the same over here. PG Tips and Marmite are a very close second.
thopkins22
12-10-08, 22:00
I miss Guinness. It's not the same over here. PG Tips and Marmite are a very close second.
Guinness is WAY better on the other side of the pond. I think they pasteurize what comes here...similar to how apple juice from grocery stores is ruined. We do have some decent beer here, you just have to avoid the Bud/Coors/Miller crap. Try a Shiner, Sam Adams, St. Arnold's, or some other such beer.
Marmite is without a doubt, the nastiest crap in the world.:p So unbelievably gross...I'm pretty sure tasting it scarred me for life.
Danny Boy,
You can get your PG Tips and marmite fix from Giant (if they have one in your area if not pm me and I'll send you a jar mate). Abrax - your absolutely right about earning the citizenship. I can't tell you how much it bugged the shit out of me to see the illegals waving their placards after I went through 5 years of interviews and filing fees with the INS - would have been cheaper to learn Spanish and pick up a protest sign.
Hey, Thopkins - marmite is the food of the Gods LOL!!:D
I miss Guinness. It's not the same over here. PG Tips and Marmite are a very close second.
I know, you are absolutely right. I have always liked Guinness but when I had it across the pond I thought it was a completely different drink. The bar tender told me that was because Guinness only has a 2 week life before it changes flavor. I don't know and did not argue, I just enjoyed it
The Spirit of the sheeple is alive and well in the US. Modern society and its social safety nets removes us from the immediate consequences of our poor decisions and the poor decisions of others, and thus no one needs to take personal responsibility because all believe that "the system" will eventually take care of the problem. In this element the apathetic "don't rock the boat" types thrive, while anyone who objects and insists on doing what's "right" (as defined by Judeo-Christian morals) is labeled a sociopath. Even here on this board, there are fools who think it unreasonable if someone uses deadly force to defend your property ("after all, its insured"; "I don't want the hassle of messing with the legal system"; "the media will ruin my reputation"; "the attorneys' fees to defend myself will bankrupt me"; "I don't want a death or serious injury on my conscience"; etc., etc.). They are short sighted cowards, more interested in their present comfort than standing for any principle, because they really have no principles except their own self preservation. This describes the once great people of England, who now are simply pathetic.
The problem is sooner or later that the cowards and apathetic people become more numerous than the rest, and those types eventually populate the legislature and the courts (including the jury pool), and then all is lost. Its already happened in some states, and we as a nation are well on our way to that same result--I predict we will get there fully in this generation. Our mainstream media is waiting with baited breath for the next Columbine--the only thing that's stopped them thus far is that many people no longer get their information solely from them.
The end game is that the sheeple, cowards and apathetic eventually get conquered by a tyrant in their own country, or some foreign culture that is willing to stand for something more than the pleasure and security of its own people. The obvious candidate in today's world is the Islamic culture. You will see this play out in England first, then France will be next. Dictatorship or Muslim--what a choice! We will face the same thing here, but given how immoral we are as a culture and well armed militarily I'm guessing we will go the dictatorship route.
So what's the solution? Simple, really. No more immigration of people who don't have a job or who are of a religious background that is prone to violence (Muslim, Hindu, etc); get rid of the central bank (here we call it the Federal Reserve) so the rich and powerful can't manipulate the economy; only people who own productive/income producing real estate free of any mortgage and people who are self-employed or employed by a private entity that does not depend on any government entity for more than 10% of its sales can vote; anyone accepting government benefits cannot vote until 5 years after such benefits cease (so long as they meet the foregoing criteria); no one who works for the government in any capacity can vote; no one can work for the government in any capacity for more than 10 years of their life. Radical you say? Not nearly as radical as what is going to happen to the Western world very, very soon.... We are getting ready to implode...
R
Nathan_Bell
12-11-08, 09:58
Roger that Sloane. The only thing I miss about the UK is decent beer (sorry my fellow Americans, but Bud Light is an aberration) and Essex Girls!!
On a more serious not though, pretty much every Brit in the US that I've met is staunchly pro-2a, but maybe it's just the circles that I move in. My American wife has learned to take it in her stride when I'm hurling abuse at Gordon Brown and his latest strokes of genius on the BBC.
Most of the former subjects of the British Empire and now current citizens of our damaged Republic that I have had contact with are from fairly to staunchly Pro-2a, so I do not think it is just the circles you run in.
Roger that Sloane. The only thing I miss about the UK is decent beer (sorry my fellow Americans, but Bud Light is an aberration) and Essex Girls!!
On a more serious not though, pretty much every Brit in the US that I've met is staunchly pro-2a, but maybe it's just the circles that I move in. My American wife has learned to take it in her stride when I'm hurling abuse at Gordon Brown and his latest strokes of genius on the BBC.
Sorry but German beers > English beers!
Belgian Beers - stella > any other Beer
But really I just love beer.
SloaneRanger
12-11-08, 17:27
Guinness is WAY better on the other side of the pond. I think they pasteurize what comes here...similar to how apple juice from grocery stores is ruined. We do have some decent beer here, you just have to avoid the Bud/Coors/Miller crap. Try a Shiner, Sam Adams, St. Arnold's, or some other such beer.
Marmite is without a doubt, the nastiest crap in the world.:p So unbelievably gross...I'm pretty sure tasting it scarred me for life.
My American blood brother, once you've have had a Brit, a paddy, taff or Jock take you an a good pub crawl over there and supply you copious amounts of draught Beamish, Guiness, John Smiths, Theakston's, Tanglefoot, DogBolter and other amber nectar you won't piss in a bottle of Shiner Bock, yeungling, amberbock etc...;)
So what's the solution? Simple, really. No more immigration of people who don't have a job or who are of a religious background that is prone to violence (Muslim, Hindu, etc); get rid of the central bank (here we call it the Federal Reserve) so the rich and powerful can't manipulate the economy; only people who own productive/income producing real estate free of any mortgage and people who are self-employed or employed by a private entity that does not depend on any government entity for more than 10% of its sales can vote; anyone accepting government benefits cannot vote until 5 years after such benefits cease (so long as they meet the foregoing criteria); no one who works for the government in any capacity can vote; no one can work for the government in any capacity for more than 10 years of their life. Radical you say? Not nearly as radical as what is going to happen to the Western world very, very soon.... We are getting ready to implode...
R
This I agree with
Belgian Beers - stella > any other Beer
But really I just love beer.
Hmmmm...., I disagree
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