6.5 Grendel SPR Build (barrel?)

[decodeddiesel]

So I'm pondering this SPR'ish build which I am current collecting parts for and I thought, why not do it in 6.5 Grendel? I am all about the improved external ballistics and increased range of the cartridge, but I really have no experience outside of 5.56 ARs.

Does anyone make a 18" SPR contour, rifle gas system, stainless barrel? I know it's a tall order and I've had no luck finding one thus far. Seems the mid length gas is much more popular, but I really want a rifle length gas so I can do a Mk.12 Mod 0 type upper.

[rubberneck]

So I'm pondering this SPR'ish build which I am current collecting parts for and I thought, why not do it in 6.5 Grendel? I am all about the improved external ballistics and increased range of the cartridge, but I really have no experience outside of 5.56 ARs.

Does anyone make a 18" SPR contour, rifle gas system, stainless barrel? I know it's a tall order and I've had no luck finding one thus far. Seems the mid length gas is much more popular, but I really want a rifle length gas so I can do a Mk.12 Mod 0 type upper.

Alexander Arms makes a 24 inch rifle length stainless barrel. If all else fails buy one and have a smith turn it down, thread and re-crown it for you.

[SHIVAN]

You can't do an Mk12-ish using the 18" AA barrel? Is gas position really that critical to the look?

You could call Satern Barrels if you really need rifle gas port location...

[decodeddiesel]

You can't do an Mk12-ish using the 18" AA barrel? Is gas position really that critical to the look?

You could call Satern Barrels if you really need rifle gas port location...

No not really, but I was hoping to maintain a rifle length gas system for the impulse and recoil benefits. The AA "SPR" is the most attractive at this point.

rubberneck, if all else fails having ADCO or someone turn a barrel may be my best option.

[SHIVAN]

Satern Barrels - $485 6.5G Barrel (http://www.saternmachining.com/Barrels.htm)

I am almost sure you can indicate gas position on these, they are $165 more than the AA barrel though. :eek:

[decodeddiesel]

Satern Barrels - $485 6.5G Barrel (http://www.saternmachining.com/Barrels.htm)

I am almost sure you can indicate gas position on these, they are $165 more than the AA barrel though. :eek:

Yeah I was checking them and Sabre out. I am still thinking the AA barrel may be the winner. I'm in no rush though so I'll just research more. Thanks for the help rubberneck and Shivan.

[koz]

CSS who uses L-W barrels (http://www.competitionshooting.com/catalogue/category33/p1612)makes an 18" rifle length gas system. A little more $$ than the AA which uses Shaw barrels but is probably a little more accurate.

The guy who started CSS developed the 6.5G with Bill A and had a falling out so he doesn't call his 6.5G.

[decodeddiesel]

CSS who uses L-W barrels (http://www.competitionshooting.com/catalogue/category33/p1612)makes an 18" rifle length gas system. A little more $$ than the AA which uses Shaw barrels but is probably a little more accurate.

The guy who started CSS developed the 6.5G with Bill A and had a falling out so he doesn't call his 6.5G.

Wow, thank you for bringing this information to this thread!

[No.6]

Been thinking about building a 6.5 myself. Guess I'll keep an eye on this thread and contribute when I have something to show.
Do have one question: Anyone think it would be worth the effort and cost to build this on a billet upper and lower, for the supposed strength gain, or just work with a quality upper/lower. Reason I ask is that I have one of Global Tactical/Denny's Guns ion bonded upper and lower and I'm looking for something to do with them, other than sale them for a profit. It'll either be a precision rifle around 6.5 or an SBR, suppressed beater gun.

[decodeddiesel]

Been thinking about building a 6.5 myself. Guess I'll keep an eye on this thread and contribute when I have something to show.
Do have one question: Anyone think it would be worth the effort and cost to build this on a billet upper and lower, for the supposed strength gain, or just work with a quality upper/lower. Reason I ask is that I have one of Global Tactical/Denny's Guns ion bonded upper and lower and I'm looking for something to do with them, other than sale them for a profit. It'll either be a precision rifle around 6.5 or an SBR, suppressed beater gun.

That's a good question, as to which all I can say is while designing the SPR Mk. 12 Crane didn't seem to find any advantage to going with a billet upper.

[uscbigdawg]

JP Enterprises has them and their barrels are tough to beat.

Rich

[koz]

IMO re: billet uppers - A billet is a bit stiffer which helps if you have a 24"-28" barrel and will aid in accuracy. At 18" I think it boils down to preference. A good CMT mil-spec upper should work just fine.

Also something to consider - A LOT of guys believe that Satern, CSS (L-W), Shilen, and AA (Shaw) over gas the rifle, which can be pretty hard on your bolt and brass (for reloaders). Many are going to the adjustable gas block (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=775354&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=10636) or a adjustable gas tube (Fulton (http://www.fulton-armory.com/AGT.htm) or MGI (http://www.mgimilitary.com/gastube.htm). )
One thing to note that the CSS gas block area is .875 while the other makers are either .750 or .936

[koz]

Also to add to the information pool
here's a thread on 6.5 Grendel.com (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2896&highlight=Adjustable+Gas+Block) talking about adjustable gas blocks

[No.6]

IMO re: billet uppers - A billet is a bit stiffer which helps if you have a 24"-28" barrel and will aid in accuracy. At 18" I think it boils down to preference. A good CMT mil-spec upper should work just fine.

Also something to consider - A LOT of guys believe that Satern, CSS (L-W), Shilen, and AA (Shaw) over gas the rifle, which can be pretty hard on your bolt and brass (for reloaders). Many are going to the adjustable gas block (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showpage?saleitemid=775354&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=10636) or a adjustable gas tube (Fulton (http://www.fulton-armory.com/AGT.htm) or MGI (http://www.mgimilitary.com/gastube.htm). )
One thing to note that the CSS gas block area is .875 while the other makers are either .750 or .936


So if you decided to use a billet upper/lower, then who's. Sun Devil, Denny's, ....?

[koz]

So if you decided to use a billet upper/lower, then who's. Sun Devil, Denny's, ....?

I'm a Larue fan but Sun Devil makes good stuff. Also the Vltor forged is supposedly stiffer than a traditional billet. Speaking of Larue, do a search for his elk hunt/kill (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=219&t=164444&page=2) with his 6.5G. He killed a large bull. It certainly shows some of the 6.5 capabilities.

[No.6]

Funny you should mention LaRue. I was just looking at his site. One question about his billet upper; it's an A3 (no M4 cut). My guess is that it is a non-issue for the 6.5G or am I wrong?

[koz]

Funny you should mention LaRue. I was just looking at his site. One question about his billet upper; it's an A3 (no M4 cut). My guess is that it is a non-issue for the 6.5G or am I wrong?


It's actually ok to have a M4 barrel profile with a standard A3 receiver, but it's NOT ok to have standard barrel (no M4 cuts) and a M4 receiver.
This is from Ar15barrels.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/gfx/feedramps.jpg

[koz]

Here's a good thread on M4 cuts (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4631&highlight=cuts)

[No.6]

But the question is, does the 6.5G need the M4 cut to make it feed correctly?

[noctis]

I'm in the same boat

AA's 6-8 week wait sucks.
And I haven't been able to speak with Satern, even after leaving messages.
ETA: Satern-multiple month wait, probably too busy to take my order.

This is going in a VLTOR VIS which FYI has m4 cuts.

[koz]

But the question is, does the 6.5G need the M4 cut to make it feed correctly?

My CSS (L-W) does not have M4 cuts and I've had no problems. But I don't use soft point ammo.

From 6.5Grendel thread (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4320) The M4 cut discussion starts about halfway down.

[No.6]

Thanks. :D Think I'm going to go the billet upper and lower. Probably gross overkill, but what the heck! Now, just need to decide on barrel, barrel length, ....

[trg42]

I used a Saber 20" SS fluted .

Don't worry about the midlength gas systems for your MK12ModO clone . A low profile gas block fits no problem under the PRI handguard

You just need to justify a $200 PRI gas block flip up sight that is being used as a sight only

I have a older pic that doesn't show the Arms40 and PRI front sight on yet.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/TRG42/ar%20pics/CopyofMK12SB19.jpg

I spoke to the "6.5 Grendel man" Bill Alexander , who BTW is very inclined to share his vast knowledge and a great guy to ask advice from. I decided on leaving the Saber barrel at 20" after talking with him

[decodeddiesel]

I used a Saber 20" SS fluted .

Don't worry about the midlength gas systems for your MK12ModO clone . A low profile gas block fits no problem under the PRI handguard

You just need to justify a $200 PRI gas block flip up sight that is being used as a sight only

I have a older pic that doesn't show the Arms40 and PRI front sight on yet.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c347/TRG42/ar%20pics/CopyofMK12SB19.jpg

I spoke to the "6.5 Grendel man" Bill Alexander , who BTW is very inclined to share his vast knowledge and a great guy to ask advice from. I decided on leaving the Saber barrel at 20" after talking with him

That is almost exactly what I would be going for. I too have recently been debating a 20" barrel if nothing else for the extra 2" worth of of velocity. I still would like this rifle to be nice and light and handy...

[No.6]

OK, so who makes magazines for a 6.5G? I did find some at:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/211.php

Don't know if they're C Products or whose.

[No.6]

Looks like from all that I read that the magazine is the weakest link in the 6.5G system. Single source (C-Products) with very inconsistent QC and an apparent reluctance to address the problem. I was all set to buy a LaRue billet upper and lower, but now I re-thinking the process. Might go a completely different direction and go with a bolt gun (AI), even though I wanted to stick to the AR platform for continuity of parts, training, etc.

[Bill Alexander]

Looks like from all that I read that the magazine is the weakest link in the 6.5G system. Single source (C-Products) with very inconsistent QC and an apparent reluctance to address the problem. I was all set to buy a LaRue billet upper and lower, but now I re-thinking the process. Might go a completely different direction and go with a bolt gun (AI), even though I wanted to stick to the AR platform for continuity of parts, training, etc.

It is correct that the magazine is still the weakest link in the 6.5 Grendel system but the critisism is a little harsh. Since the first Grendel magazines were produced we have undertaken a continuing series of modifications to improve the magazines and also continue with this work. QA is under constant review and with the changes in coatings and the new followers the current Grendel magazines are reliable and durable.

We are continuing to work on the magazines and have already laid out a series of changes that will be implemented and tested before being released as applicable.

Bill Alexander

[No.6]

All well and good, but, and I know it's speculation, the AWBII will put an abrupt end to product improvement. I'm looking for something I can use now, today. Not maybe in the future and completely dependent on the whims of the politburo.

[Bill Alexander]

the current Grendel magazines are reliable and durable.

I am extremely pleased with our current generation magazines, but as with any product it would be remiss to simply abandon any further research.

This year I intend to launch a new hard use carrier group as an option for both the Beowulf and the Grendel (maybe 5.56) for guns that have to absorb very high round counts, does the product need such an enhancement? For 99% of the users, probably not, but we have continued to work in this area, the same applies to the magazines. I will continue to test and incorporate improvements as I find them.

Bill Alexander