View Full Version : New Colt CR6960
I'm considering one of the new production 6960 guns with the CR and wanted to see what the general consensus was about the CR Colts versus the LE Colts. I watched an interested video on YouTube about the differences between the CR6920 and LE6920 and it seemed like the new Colts are being produced with outsourced parts that can't be verified that they are truly milspec like the previous LE Colts. I can pick up a CR6960 new for about $1000.
Also wanted to see what people thought about the CR6960 versus the FN SRP G2 rifle. I don't see a lot information on forums and such about the FN SPR G2 models. Are they not popular for a reason? I can get a new SRP for about $900.
They’re the exact same thing except the markings are engraved instead of stamped, and the serial prefix is CR instead of LE.
IMO that guy is hard up for money and put out that video to get a bunch of clicks. He’s a blowhard at this point.
They’re the exact same thing except the markings are engraved instead of stamped, and the serial prefix is CR instead of LE.
IMO that guy is hard up for money and put out that video to get a bunch of clicks. He’s a blowhard at this point.
I don’t know if we’re watching the same video or not, but I clearly saw differences between the two. Pretty clear that parts were being outsourced. Now I don’t know if that means anything or not.
I don’t know if we’re watching the same video or not, but I clearly saw differences between the two. Pretty clear that parts were being outsourced. Now I don’t know if that means anything or not.
Colt has always outsourced parts.
Colt has always outsourced parts.
I agree but at one time QC meant more than it probably does now. They were good when they were the only game in town and didn't have to be. Buying a Colt appears to be a crap shoot now.
It seems the CR version of the 6960 has the same OEM handguard that was used in the Trooper, instead of the more feature rich handguard of the discontinued LE6960. It also no longer has an ambi safety, and the SL-S stock. The barrel should still be the lightweight mid-gas unit used in the LE6960.
Chris's video clearly showed that components are not marked in the same way as before, but it does not prove that they're outsourced and certainly doesn't prove that they're of lesser quality than before. Hasn't Colt been outsourcing components for years?
I still haven't seen any videos demonstrating the quality differences between the LE series and the CR series. $1,000 is a pretty good price for an AR in these times, but it's still unknown if these particular Colts are as good as they used to be.
Chris's video clearly showed that components are not marked in the same way as before, but it does not prove that they're outsourced and certainly doesn't prove that they're of lesser quality than before. Hasn't Colt been outsourcing components for years?
I think his point was that if Colt has always marked their own components a certain way for 50 years, why would they all the sudden stop or just sporadically stop on certain parts? I think the safe assumption is that they are not produced by Colt. But again, I don't know if that really changes their quality or not.
I don’t know if we’re watching the same video or not, but I clearly saw differences between the two. Pretty clear that parts were being outsourced. Now I don’t know if that means anything or not.
Bet you money he gave that reply because he recently bought one and is butthurt that someone like Chris pointed out how bad he got ripped off.
I would not touch a recent Colt product with a ten foot pole. An older model Colt? Heck yes, but hard pass on this new stuff.
Bet you money he gave that reply because he recently bought one and is butthurt that someone like Chris pointed out how bad he got ripped off.
I would not touch a recent Colt product with a ten foot pole. An older model Colt? Heck yes, but hard pass on this new stuff.
Good to know. I do know all these older Colt fanatics can be very particular about their stamps, rollmarks, letters, etc. If we're paying close to the same price as the LE models, but with less proof marks, it makes me think these CR guns might not be worth as much as the LE models in the future.
Good to know. I do know all these older Colt fanatics can be very particular about their stamps, rollmarks, letters, etc. If we're paying close to the same price as the LE models, but with less proof marks, it makes me think these CR guns might not be worth as much as the LE models in the future.
If those special markings, stamps, rollmarks, etc. meant nothing - We would all be buying unmarked crap from PSA for much less money and be happy about it.
But those markings DO have meaning and no they are not the same as PSA parts so we gladly pay a premium for them.
Colt has always outsourced parts.
'Some' parts - And those parts were tested to make sure they met the standards and marked as such.
Aaaand here we go again.
My random (OK, it’s a LMT MARS-L) lower and 6960 is my favorite carbine. I like my SBR uppers a ton, but I grab something these days, it has been the 6960.
In other words…. You’ll probably be fine.
I'll wait until there is actual proof that parts are sub standard. Colt has changed markings several times over the years. I'm not gonna get all up in arms because some guy who got fired from Colt decides to make a video that parts aren't marked the same as when he worked there years prior.
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a new Colt, run it hard, get it filthy, and run it hard some more. I couldn't care less what anyone thinks.
I don’t know if we’re watching the same video or not, but I clearly saw differences between the two. Pretty clear that parts were being outsourced. Now I don’t know if that means anything or not.
Differences and inconsistencies is what Colt does. They’ve never always done anything for long when it comes to markings.
What they always do: Proper barrels that run like a raped ape with any ammo and aren’t overgassed and don’t pop primers and beat up brass. BCGs that are among the best.
The entire rest of the gun is just AR parts.
Bet you money he gave that reply because he recently bought one and is butthurt that someone like Chris pointed out how bad he got ripped off.
I would not touch a recent Colt product with a ten foot pole. An older model Colt? Heck yes, but hard pass on this new stuff.
If you’re referring to me, your ASSumption is incorrect. I only buy Colts when they’re ridiculously inexpensive, and haven’t bought one in 3 years.
I don’t recall seeing anyone suggest you buy one, so feel free to shop elsewhere. I have no plans to buy any more. Colts, but that’s not because of a video posted by an ex employee, or a change in component markings.
Olympus, you can always take the easy route and buy a DD.
I love my CR6960. It’s gassed correctly and I went through a class with no issues at all, it’s honestly one of the better buys on the market right now.
I have zero evidence that the ‘new colt’ is any less quality than the previous models.
Bet you money he gave that reply because he recently bought one and is butthurt that someone like Chris pointed out how bad he got ripped off.
I would not touch a recent Colt product with a ten foot pole. An older model Colt? Heck yes, but hard pass on this new stuff.
The only Colt things I own are OEM-2 uppers that I used to build on.
New Colts are better than old Colts, old Colts were better than what was available at the time.
I wouldn’t touch an old Colt.
The only Colt things I own are OEM-2 uppers that I used to build on.
New Colts are better than old Colts, old Colts were better than what was available at the time.
I wouldn’t touch an old Colt.
More for me, thank you.
I've got some seriously old Colts, some older than me and funny thing is they run just fine.
But sounds like TDP is what everyone is wanting to talk about and in the context of did any of that change.
Answer right now seems to be "We don't know." So really the only "known quantity" Colts are those made by Colt Defense and those were only a known quantity for a little over 10 years. Are the LE6920s that were made by Colt Manufacturing also made to the exact same TDP...probably but that is nothing more than speculation from me as I have no supported evidence either way.
Are the CR6920s the same as the LE6920s, again probably but again just speculation from me.
Are the CR6960s essentially an equivalent rifle with design changes only? Who knows? Until somebody gets ahold of the TDP for that rifle and generates Chart 2.0 we aren't going to know for sure and speculating back and forth is nothing more than unsupported speculation.
Add in the usual arguments of "I'm not going to pay an extra $200 just so the barrel under the front sight gets parkerized" and we are off.
What separates this forum from pretty much every other forum on the net, has been in the past, discussing known quantities. We know for example Colt Retro Rifles are nothing more than hobby rifles with interesting roll marks. And if that is what you want to own and you purchased it as an informed decision that is fine.
I have more than a few hobby rifles, these include an XCR which is incredibly interesting but completely unproven in any meaningful way and also falls well short of most performance expectations, especially accuracy. But it's still an interesting rifle and I have a sample of one that I will keep because it would be hard to sell. It resides in my interesting / hobby rifle safe.
My Colt Defense rifles are in my "Hollee Crap I need a rifle that is a very known quantity" safe with some HKs and a few others.
It remains to be seen if I would even purchase a CR rifle and then which safe it would go in. Say what you will about the Yellow Visor guy, but it seems his writing gig gave him access to data which usually doesn't makes it's way into "Awesome guns for awesome guys monthly" and he did a simple 1:1 comparison of what rifles had this and what rifles had that...or didn't.
El Vaquero
08-18-21, 07:40
I'll wait until there is actual proof that parts are sub standard. Colt has changed markings several times over the years. I'm not gonna get all up in arms because some guy who got fired from Colt decides to make a video that parts aren't marked the same as when he worked there years prior.
My feelings as well. I have yet to hear about an unusually high amount of parts breakages or issues.
More for me, thank you.
My Colt Defense rifles are in my "Hollee Crap I need a rifle that is a very known quantity" safe with some HKs and a few others...
That was still always speculation. LE6920s stamped Colt’s Manufacturing, the CAR prefix 6720s and A4s, the Colts Manufacturing Sporter 6920s were all made at the same time at the same place.
An LE 6920 uses a different barrel, handguard, rear sight, lower, FCG, safety, buffer, and different packaging than an M4, so to think that they were mil-spec guns pulled from the same line as M4s has always been a stretch as they have to set up to run the different models.
There’s still tons of CR prefix guns shipping to LE all over the US. If you trusted Colt 5 years ago, I don’t see why you wouldn’t trust them now.
PART I because I can only insert one vid per post-
We know for example Colt Retro Rifles are nothing more than hobby rifles with interesting roll marks.
Those rifles are much more than that. According to Ken Hackathorn, Colt supplied U.S. Ordnance with all the blueprints and tech data for the XM177E2 and the original roll mark dies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoiWMv870pI
PART II
Larry Vickers says Curtis Debord of U.S. Ordnance is a serious AR guy with an extensive collection of ARs and has done a number of clones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCy6x9k6QLk
The Colt retros were well made and I wish I bought them when available.
I've had a chance to strip down a CR6920. I didn't see any difference from an LE6920. I didn't check the handguards because for me, 6920 furniture are placeholders. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a new Colt AR in the future. In fact, the Colt remains my first choice.
.....I would not touch a recent Colt product with a ten foot pole. An older model Colt? Heck yes, but hard pass on this new stuff.
i see that some people think the older colts are better, but how old? those made over 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 14.7 years ago? what's the cut-off?
Just got a M4 upper and was ready to go sight it in tomorrow morning. It didn't have a front sight post. Nice.
Hammer_Man
09-18-21, 09:30
Just got a M4 upper and was ready to go sight it in tomorrow morning. It didn't have a front sight post. Nice.
Call Colt customer service. I’ve had to warranty a barrel with them, and I found them very pleasant to deal with.
Call Colt customer service. I’ve had to warranty a barrel with them, and I found them very pleasant to deal with.
That's my plan. I didn't know if it'd be faster to order the parts and watch YouTube on how to install it or send it on in. Probably won't have time to shoot it for awhile now anyway so if their CS is good, I'll let them handle it.
Hammer_Man
09-18-21, 11:42
That's my plan. I didn't know if it'd be faster to order the parts and watch YouTube on how to install it or send it on in. Probably won't have time to shoot it for awhile now anyway so if their CS is good, I'll let them handle it.
If you can screw in a lightbulb, you can install a sight post into a sight base. It helps to have one of those pronged sight adjustment tools. I hope Colt CS is as easy for you to deal with as they were for me.
Just an update, Colt told me to pound sand, that it was up to Brownells to make it right. I called Brownells and they emailed a shipping label to send it in, and even pulled a new upper out of stock to make sure there would be one still waiting when they received mine.
I was suprised with the woman's attitude that I spoke to. I was very polite and told her I knew things happen, and it wasn't a big deal. She just asked for the serial number. I told her this was just an upper, not a whole rifle. Apparently that's all they'll warranty or fix. ..complete firearms.
Hammer_Man
09-21-21, 21:27
Just an update, Colt told me to pound sand, that it was up to Brownells to make it right. I called Brownells and they emailed a shipping label to send it in, and even pulled a new upper out of stock to make sure there would be one still waiting when they received mine.
I was suprised with the woman's attitude that I spoke to. I was very polite and told her I knew things happen, and it wasn't a big deal. She just asked for the serial number. I told her this was just an upper, not a whole rifle. Apparently that's all they'll warranty or fix. ..complete firearms.
Wow sorry to hear that. My customer service experience with Colt was the complete opposite. Maybe it’s the new management? I’m glad Brownell’s stepped up and took care of you. I’ve always had good experiences with Brownell’s. Good to know it’s not just me.
Other than some nerd on YT spouting of nonsense, what actual evidence do we have that Colt QC has diminished due to outsourcing?
Many manufacturers (yes, even high quality) are having QC issues right now...
the AR-15 Junkie
09-22-21, 18:17
Other than some nerd on YT spouting of nonsense, what actual evidence do we have that Colt QC has diminished due to outsourcing?
Many manufacturers (yes, even high quality) are having QC issues right now...
None, just the nerd.
Just an update, Colt told me to pound sand, that it was up to Brownells to make it right. I called Brownells and they emailed a shipping label to send it in, and even pulled a new upper out of stock to make sure there would be one still waiting when they received mine.
I was suprised with the woman's attitude that I spoke to. I was very polite and told her I knew things happen, and it wasn't a big deal. She just asked for the serial number. I told her this was just an upper, not a whole rifle. Apparently that's all they'll warranty or fix. ..complete firearms.
Ive heard that Colt isnt hasn't sold uppers for a bit now. If so, I could see why they wouldn't warranty it as they wouldn't be able to confirm it's authenticity.
None, just the nerd that was fired from Colt.
Fixed it for you.
Ive heard that Colt isnt hasn't sold uppers for a bit now. If so, I could see why they wouldn't warranty it as they wouldn't be able to confirm it's authenticity.
Colt uppers are popping up all over the place. Midway has a few.
Hammer_Man
09-22-21, 20:31
Colt uppers are popping up all over the place. Midway has a few.
Brownell’s has some as well. They had the 14.5” barreled uppers priced under $500 last week. I’ve also seen new complete Colt uppers at a local gun store.
Other than some nerd on YT spouting of nonsense, what actual evidence do we have that Colt QC has diminished due to outsourcing?
That guy forgot more stuff about Colt that you will ever learn.
How many manuals have YOU written for which manufacturers?
You cant cite anything he said that was factually incorrect so you resort to... Name calling.
That guy forgot more stuff about Colt that you will ever learn.
How many manuals have YOU written for which manufacturers?
You cant cite anything he said that was factually incorrect so you resort to... Name calling.
Sit down, clown. I don't care if he wrote the f*cking Bible.
No one, including you or him, has provided any actual evidence of these claims.
Sit down, clown. I don't care if he wrote the f*cking Bible.
No one, including you or him, has provided any actual evidence of these claims.
Yep…….pure speculation and hate mongering.
Sit down, clown. I don't care if he wrote the f*cking Bible.
No one, including you or him, has provided any actual evidence of these claims.
Chris laid out a pile of facts. Factual information from an industry expert. (a guy that actually gets paid for his knowledge in this field - unlike your dumb ass that could not pay people to listen to you...)
You laid down nothing but cheap insults without citing a single thing he said that was untrue.
Chris laid out a pile of facts. Factual information from an industry expert. (a guy that actually gets paid for his knowledge in this field - unlike your dumb ass that could not pay people to listen to you...)
You laid down nothing but cheap insults without citing a single thing he said that was untrue.
Again, no evidence.
You would sh!t your pants to learn what people pay me to talk to them :lol:
You would sh!t your pants to learn what people pay me to talk to them :lol:
Fairly certain nobody is paying you for any firearms related advice.
Your lack of firearms knowledge is why you can't cite anything specific that Chris said that was provably false.
the AR-15 Junkie
09-24-21, 23:23
Fairly certain nobody is paying you for any firearms related advice.
Your lack of firearms knowledge is why you can't cite anything specific that Chris said that was provably false.
When you have your wife do all the begging for money, thats not geting paid, thats called charity.
Hammer_Man
09-25-21, 10:17
:rolleyes:Thread getting locked in 3…2…1…
BangBang77
09-25-21, 11:32
I like turtles...
I like Kittens, soft and fluffy.
Deadman William
09-26-21, 12:39
sounds like this is something to file away in the brain case and keep in mind going forward, but nothing more. allegations along the lines of "colt used to be good, now they suck" have circulated the gun community for decades, and have always been proven to be either grossly misrepresented or just plain false. i seriously doubt colt would suddenly decide to start throwing junk parts in their guns in these volatile times when A) black rifles sell like goddamn hotcakes and fortunes are being made, and B) even hints at quality problems flap around the internet like a flock o spooked sparrows
colt has always had two faces... civ and LE/mil.. their civ stuff has always been slightly 'suspect' due to colts schizophrenic legal stewardship mentality, their LE stuff has always been rock solid. know this, make buying decisions with this knowledge in your back pocket, and shoot on..
indianalex01
09-27-21, 21:58
I would not touch a recent Colt product with a ten foot pole. An older model Colt? Heck yes, but hard pass on this new stuff.[/QUOTE]
This is the same tired a$$ line that has been said since the 80’s..
DG23 and Scooter22-knock it off and go have a brew.The rest--don't feed them
indianalex01
09-28-21, 09:20
sounds like this is something to file away in the brain case and keep in mind going forward, but nothing more. allegations along the lines of "colt used to be good, now they suck" have circulated the gun community for decades, and have always been proven to be either grossly misrepresented or just plain false. i seriously doubt colt would suddenly decide to start throwing junk parts in their guns in these volatile times when A) black rifles sell like goddamn hotcakes and fortunes are being made, and B) even hints at quality problems flap around the internet like a flock o spooked sparrows
colt has always had two faces... civ and LE/mil.. their civ stuff has always been slightly 'suspect' due to colts schizophrenic legal stewardship mentality, their LE stuff has always been rock solid. know this, make buying decisions with this knowledge in your back pocket, and shoot on..
Aside from the 16in barrel, non M16 cut lower and few other small things, how is the civie gun different and as you say suspect? Give some details please. I have many Colts including an SP6920 and it is exactly the same as an LE6920. Marking are a little different but everything else is the same. Let’s hear some details please.
Deadman William
09-28-21, 17:13
Aside from the 16in barrel, non M16 cut lower and few other small things, how is the civie gun different and as you say suspect? Give some details please. I have many Colts including an SP6920 and it is exactly the same as an LE6920. Marking are a little different but everything else is the same. Let’s hear some details please.
colt has a well established history of deliberately building civilian marketed models differently than their LE and mil marketed models - could very well be that current stock is exactly the same except for nomenclature, but given their history it behooves one to buy carefully.
you'll note its my position that colt makes good shit - but their history IS their history.
indianalex01
09-28-21, 17:39
colt has a well established history of deliberately building civilian marketed models differently than their LE and mil marketed models - could very well be that current stock is exactly the same except for nomenclature, but given their history it behooves one to buy carefully.
you'll note its my position that colt makes good shit - but their history IS their history.
Your reply is spotty. You had made a statement about things being completely different with LE and civie and then kind of renigged a bit.
Deadman William
09-28-21, 17:54
Your reply is spotty. You had made a statement about things being completely different with LE and civie and then kind of renigged a bit.
negative. what i wrote and what i meant are congruent, as was my response to your question.
That guy forgot more stuff about Colt that you will ever learn.
How many manuals have YOU written for which manufacturers?
You cant cite anything he said that was factually incorrect so you resort to... Name calling.
Here is a whole thread on it. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?5913-Black-Rifle-Book-2
He gets called on errors by, David A. Lutz, Lt. Col. USMC (Ret'd) , Pat Rogers, and several other knowledgeable people.
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