View Full Version : Help fighting Army Awards Branch
You guys probably dont remember but a couple years ago I made a post asking about whether or not I should apply for a Purple Heart. Well I did and I got my denial letter yesterday. I have the ability to appeal to a higher command, but I want to make sure I have my ducks in a row this time incase this is my last shot.
Backstory:
in June of 2005 I was on a night mission around Al Muqdadiyah Iraq, which is a town northeast of Baghdad near the Iranian border. During the mission we run over an IED and I get knocked unconscious. Turns out to be one of the first EFP devices in the AO. After about 30 seconds I come to and we are exiting the Bradley as it's pumping a couple dozen rounds of 25mm into the side of this building. We start clearing the surrounding area and Im moving like I just drank a full bottle of Vodka. The world is spinning, I can hardly hear, and I keep falling over.
Afterwards our medic starts treating us. My roommate has similar symptoms and a SSGT from the sniper platoon has some shrapnel wounds to his face and head. Luckily nothing bad, just nasty flesh wounds. When we get back to the FOB the next morning we all go to the hospital and Im diagnosed with a concussion. I get some Tylenol and am placed on a no missions, restricted to my room status for a few days. I go to follow up a couple days later and Im cleared for action. I had some persistent issues afterwards. Headaches, bouts of vertigo (usually when reading for some reason), and memory issues being the biggest problems. I got out on 2006 and started to go to the Phoenix VA which we all know was the pinnacle of health care around that time.... I was diagnosed with "concussion residuals" for my persistent issues from the IED. A few years later the term "traumatic brain injury" starts making the rounds and I go back to the VA. They then re-diagnose the concussion residuals as TBI.
Fast forward to 2019 and I go to the DAV to try and get file the paperwork for my PH. Im told the DAV doesnt do that. However one of the reps decided to do it for me on his lunch break. Awesome dude, former Marine 0311, but no longer there unfortunately. We send my medical records from the FOB hospital, the VA records of my treatment since, and other paperwork showing that I meet the requirements.
I get a denial letter pretty quickly. The issue being that my medical record from the FOB has a clerical error on it and lists two different dates that are a month apart.
I contact my Lt at the time, currently a Major, and he writes an official witness statement for the incident listing the correct date. I further tracked down the sniper that got shrapnel in the face and confirmed with him via his PH, the correct date.
So I resubmitted that, which took a while due to tracking down the people involved and my personal health issues over the last year. Yesterday I received another denial letter. This time it's because there is no record of me being ordered by the doctor to the restricted status written in my medical records. Only the concussion diagnosis and being given Tylenol. They say that being diagnosed with a concussion and given Tylenol "do not constitute qualifying treatment for a concussive injury". They require further military medical documentation that I received more extensive treatment. I guess the VA stuff doesnt count and I have no further documentation.
I have a couple more witnesses that can corroborate for me, but Im not sure that's going to help at this point.
I now have the ability to appeal this decision to a higher command. Like I said I want to make sure I have enough before I do though.
So short story long... Does anyone know a organization that can help me?
Maybe someone at the American Legion or Veterans of Foreign Wars.
You could check to see if they have a veteran's councilor at the AZ Unemployment Office. They have one at the Utah Unemployment Office and he helped get my disability claim processed.
I would reach out to the Disabled American Veterans and ask if they can help you.
I’m curious- what’s your motivation? Why do you care? I qualify for numerous awards that I didn’t receive and although it irked me a little bit, I just didn’t care enough. Just wondering.
I’m curious- what’s your motivation? Why do you care? I qualify for numerous awards that I didn’t receive and although it irked me a little bit, I just didn’t care enough. Just wondering.
Don't want to speak for anyone, and I get where you are probably coming from cause I know a lot of guys who are just happy to be back in one piece and did a lot of shit that might have rated a bronze star or this or that but they don't care because so many people definitely had it worse.
But maybe the OP has kids or something like that and he wants to impart values like sacrifice. I grew up with a couple kids who had dads with purple hearts and they damn sure knew what it meant and you didn't shit talk your country around them. I could be any number of things.
If it's a legit, qualifying injury he shouldn't need to justify his motivations, earned is earned. But again I understand your point, I think probably everyone knows at least one person who left a lot of shit on the table (including in some cases financial benefits) because they were simply happy to be home and alive and at some point they probably told themselves that's all they needed because they maybe didn't think it would actually happen.
What it comes down to is this stuff is all terribly personal shit and many of us feel very, very differently about many different things. I can understand situations where I felt it necessary to wear it for everyone around me who maybe deserved it but didn't get it and I can understand situations where even if I was deserving I might not feel like it was enough compared to what some other guys went through to be recognized.
Every time I meet a combat vet, the decorations are always either on the wall or in a shoebox in the closet. I've seen people take immense pride in some common items because the cost for them was so high and I've seen people put away things few and damn few people ever are awarded. The one thing that is usually a constant is the reasoning in both cases is almost never the same.
The only thing I've managed to take away in every situation is, my opinion really doesn't matter.
Averageman
08-20-21, 07:31
Don't want to speak for anyone, and I get where you are probably coming from cause I know a lot of guys who are just happy to be back in one piece and did a lot of shit that might have rated a bronze star or this or that but they don't care because so many people definitely had it worse.
But maybe the OP has kids or something like that and he wants to impart values like sacrifice. I grew up with a couple kids who had dads with purple hearts and they damn sure knew what it meant and you didn't shit talk your country around them. I could be any number of things.
If it's a legit, qualifying injury he shouldn't need to justify his motivations, earned is earned. But again I understand your point, I think probably everyone knows at least one person who left a lot of shit on the table (including in some cases financial benefits) because they were simply happy to be home and alive and at some point they probably told themselves that's all they needed because they maybe didn't think it would actually happen.
What it comes down to is this stuff is all terribly personal shit and many of us feel very, very differently about many different things. I can understand situations where I felt it necessary to wear it for everyone around me who maybe deserved it but didn't get it and I can understand situations where even if I was deserving I might not feel like it was enough compared to what some other guys went through to be recognized.
Every time I meet a combat vet, the decorations are always either on the wall or in a shoebox in the closet. I've seen people take immense pride in some common items because the cost for them was so high and I've seen people put away things few and damn few people ever are awarded. The one thing that is usually a constant is the reasoning in both cases is almost never the same.
I don't question peoples motives, whatever works for you.
I came back and finished up my time and was so F'ed up I just wanted to retire. I didn't want anything, I signed out came home and loaded my Uniforms and Awards in to the dumpster and moved on with life.
I saw a Lieutenant leave his troops in combat and run to saftey, Bronze Star. I saw another guy take a ricochet in the mouth and literally lean over and spit out the metal casing off part of the bullet, nothing, criskets chirped. BTW he was moving up on the assault next to me.
I couldn't figure it out. No common sense was used, it was as if it was predetermined and that was that.
I feel for you brother, I wish you luck.
Sorry I cannot help you, but definitely check out the organizations already mentioned.
I'm Navy, not Army. I'll say when I got out my records did not reflect about half a dozen awards. It is like next to impossible to go back retroactively and fix the records. I just gave up.
Good luck!
I’m curious- what’s your motivation? Why do you care? I qualify for numerous awards that I didn’t receive and although it irked me a little bit, I just didn’t care enough. Just wondering.
For years I've been torn on it. I felt like I wanted it but it wasn't worth the hassle. But in Az my kids get college tuition benefits if I have a Purple Heart. Now it's worth the hassle.
Averageman
08-20-21, 12:50
For years I've been torn on it. I felt like I wanted it but it wasn't worth the hassle. But in Az my kids get college tuition benefits if I have a Purple Heart. Now it's worth the hassle.
I can dig it.
For years I've been torn on it. I felt like I wanted it but it wasn't worth the hassle. But in Az my kids get college tuition benefits if I have a Purple Heart. Now it's worth the hassle.
Then it's definitely worth the hassle if you get bennies from it.
Two of my gunners had a very close IED blast, between two gun trucks outside of Fallujah in 2007. Both were concussed, had bleeding from their ears initially, and were stood down for 2-3 days.
After demobilizing, one went back to work and sucked it up. The other was able to go through DAV and was awarded a PH, which lead to a 100% VA rating based on PTSD and TBI and medically retired. He tried many other avenues but DAV was who helped him the most. I think it really depends on the area as to which organization is most helpful.
As far as awards I'm missing at least two, maybe three, but as I'm not going to make E-9, and I'm retiring, so I don't care.
But I will say that some missing awards and a combat earned PH are two different animals. OP, I wish you good luck on your quest.
I contact my Lt at the time, currently a Major, and he writes an official witness statement for the incident listing the correct date. I further tracked down the sniper that got shrapnel in the face and confirmed with him via his PH, the correct date.
"qualifying treatment for a concussive injury". They require further military medical documentation that I received more extensive treatment. I guess the VA stuff doesnt count and I have no further documentation.
I have a couple more witnesses that can corroborate for me, but Im not sure that's going to help at this point.
I now have the ability to appeal this decision to a higher command. Like I said I want to make sure I have enough before I do though.
Does anyone know a organization that can help me?
Maybe someone at the American Legion or Veterans of Foreign Wars.
You could check to see if they have a veteran's councilor at the AZ Unemployment Office. They have one at the Utah Unemployment Office and he helped get my disability claim processed.Ass-pain, but get your papers and ducks in a row. Like any other investigation, you need your affidavits and witness documents for care and benefits that may-will follow you the rest of your life.
Get all your corroborating statements and evidence. Get assistance from either DAV or AMVETS, or one of the other disabled veterans advocate groups. Then re-submit.
If (maybe a 95% possibility) you get another round of rejections, send your packet to either or both of your Senators and your Congress person and make them do their ombudsman function. You're no longer on active service, so ask them to do their job. Your package has to be complete instead of appearing to be a "GIMME FREE MONEY" appeal from an entitlements baby.
It ain't welfare if you weren't broke when you enlisted -- and not to take ANYTHING away from you, but your claim has to be stronger than "I got a boo-boo when I was blowed up."
People don't get tried or convicted just because someone claims they saw you do something. Unfortunately, we have to show our evidence.
You can see after 20 years of war how many politicians don't give a flying Ricardo because you signed up as a volunteer.
Broke is broke, so do your proper government/.mil paperwork. You know how this game works. None of this stuff gets better as you get older, so you need to tend to it while you can still get statements (before guys get older and memories start to fail).
What are the actual regs on what qualifies? How bad of a TBI is required?
Tylenol absolutely is correct treatment for a headache.
Post the verbiage, it might help us.
Two of my gunners had a very close IED blast, between two gun trucks outside of Fallujah in 2007. Both were concussed, had bleeding from their ears initially, and were stood down for 2-3 days.
After demobilizing, one went back to work and sucked it up. The other was able to go through DAV and was awarded a PH, which lead to a 100% VA rating based on PTSD and TBI and medically retired. He tried many other avenues but DAV was who helped him the most. I think it really depends on the area as to which organization is most helpful.
As far as awards I'm missing at least two, maybe three, but as I'm not going to make E-9, and I'm retiring, so I don't care.
But I will say that some missing awards and a combat earned PH are two different animals. OP, I wish you good luck on your quest.
I know two Vietnam War combat veterans who were being yanked around by the VA. The DAV did a good job of steering them through the administrative and political BS and they both received the benefits they earned.
It may be worthwhile joining the DAV, then asking them for guidance on submitting your request to update any awards you earned.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
08-20-21, 16:43
I’m curious- what’s your motivation? Why do you care? I qualify for numerous awards that I didn’t receive and although it irked me a little bit, I just didn’t care enough. Just wondering.
Ah, the veteran community continues to eat its own. Nice :rolleyes:
Anyways, while I do not qualify for a PH, my wife's grandpa got his Vietnam KIA brother the PH he deserved posthumously in 2016. I don't know how he did it, but if you want to PM me your contact info I can pass it along to him.
Depending on the population of your county, most have a Veteran's Service Officer. Just google and you should be able to find one close to you. To me, they're a bit easier to work with compared to the VA. Usually, these people are very knowledgeable.
What are the actual regs on what qualifies? How bad of a TBI is required?
Tylenol absolutely is correct treatment for a headache.
Post the verbiage, it might help us.
Here is the letter. I just cropped out my info at the top. I dont know if there are different levels of TBI. I guess there would be. I have no idea what my level would be.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51392205054_9e1382f07f_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mimu5W)20210820_185611 (https://flic.kr/p/2mimu5W) by chase (https://www.flickr.com/photos/157376915@N07/), on Flickr
There are indeed variations of TBI and closed head injuries. I guess my question would be, per the letter, what constitutes "qualifying treatment for a concussive injury"? If you know that and can satisfy that and reverse engineer back from that, I think you have your case.
I had a TBI, imagine most of us did to some point. But I never followed up, I never had imaging, I never had cognitive testing, and I wasn't given squat for it either.
Years ago I got a cold call from a guy in a sister platoon of our company, who I knew to be injured. He could not hunt down his old platoon corpsman and through a buddy found me. Our company was on the same operation, he got injured but did not get a purple heart. He asked me to write a statement about that operation and anything I remember about him being injured because he was trying to get a purple heart too. He eventually got enough documentation to get it because I asked him to keep me in the loop. What I asked him what the process was like, he said he got my documentation, he got documentation from someone who worked at the battalion aid station, he had to get his platoon commanders documentation, and I want to say he even got documentation from the next echelon of care.
ok, so I found this article:
https://www.army.mil/article/58155/purple_heart_okd_for_concussions_mild_tbi
It looks like you have to connect the TBI to the IED. Your major/former LT should be able to alter his letter to do that.
I'd also see if you can track down the medical officer that treated you. Find their name, see if you can run down their NPI (Natl provider identification) number
They can usually write out in a statement as well, not to mention ADDEND THE MEDICAL RECORD, if still in the .mil
Yep, the person that writes the note, can add on to the chart.
Failing that, you can have a military doc review your chart and write a letter of support. Basically says "after review of the chart, the documentation supports that this injury was likely caused by .... " I've done it a few times, there's some form from the VA. Your local MTF should be able to help, not sure if a civilian doc works as well.
If you can find the medic, they can write a letter too. He can write a letter describing injuries and treatments on scene, if he remembers.
A kicker may be, were you treated for TBI residuals while in the .mil, or only the VA? Your letter asks for military documentation about treatment. The VA is civilian, so their own documents technically don't meet the criteria listed.
ok, so I found this article:
https://www.army.mil/article/58155/purple_heart_okd_for_concussions_mild_tbi
It looks like you have to connect the TBI to the IED. Your major/former LT should be able to alter his letter to do that.
I'd also see if you can track down the medical officer that treated you. Find their name, see if you can run down their NPI (Natl provider identification) number
They can usually write out in a statement as well, not to mention ADDEND THE MEDICAL RECORD, if still in the .mil
Yep, the person that writes the note, can add on to the chart.
Failing that, you can have a military doc review your chart and write a letter of support. Basically says "after review of the chart, the documentation supports that this injury was likely caused by .... " I've done it a few times, there's some form from the VA. Your local MTF should be able to help, not sure if a civilian doc works as well.
If you can find the medic, they can write a letter too. He can write a letter describing injuries and treatments on scene, if he remembers.
A kicker may be, were you treated for TBI residuals while in the .mil, or only the VA? Your letter asks for military documentation about treatment. The VA is civilian, so their own documents technically don't meet the criteria listed.
Yep, these are the steps he needs to take.
Yep, these are the steps he needs to take.
Doubling down on this and Sinister's advice to get your Senators and Congress critter involved.
ok, so I found this article:
https://www.army.mil/article/58155/purple_heart_okd_for_concussions_mild_tbi
It looks like you have to connect the TBI to the IED. Your major/former LT should be able to alter his letter to do that.
I'd also see if you can track down the medical officer that treated you. Find their name, see if you can run down their NPI (Natl provider identification) number
They can usually write out in a statement as well, not to mention ADDEND THE MEDICAL RECORD, if still in the .mil
Yep, the person that writes the note, can add on to the chart.
Failing that, you can have a military doc review your chart and write a letter of support. Basically says "after review of the chart, the documentation supports that this injury was likely caused by .... " I've done it a few times, there's some form from the VA. Your local MTF should be able to help, not sure if a civilian doc works as well.
If you can find the medic, they can write a letter too. He can write a letter describing injuries and treatments on scene, if he remembers.
A kicker may be, were you treated for TBI residuals while in the .mil, or only the VA? Your letter asks for military documentation about treatment. The VA is civilian, so their own documents technically don't meet the criteria listed.
So my issue is that my military records aren't complete. It's not missing a whole lot but it only has my initial visit to the hospital on the FOB. The follow ups are not in there. The only other record I have is the post deployment questionnaire where I complain about headaches and dizziness and state I went to the hospital 5 times (initial and follow ups). We got back to the US in January 2006, had a month of block leave, and then I went on terminal leave in late April. The rest of the treatment was through the VA which started pretty quickly after I got out. So my issue is I have only the paperwork from the initial visit after the IED.
I have several witnesses that are willing to write statements for me including someone who was in the vehicle with my and my squad leader.
What is a "MTF"?
It looks like the plan going forward is to get some more witness statements, try the things Caduceus suggested, then contact my Senators. Mark Kelly leaned HEAVY on his veteran status during the elections, lets see if he'll help out.
So my issue is that my military records aren't complete. It's not missing a whole lot but it only has my initial visit to the hospital on the FOB. The follow ups are not in there. The only other record I have is the post deployment questionnaire where I complain about headaches and dizziness and state I went to the hospital 5 times (initial and follow ups). We got back to the US in January 2006, had a month of block leave, and then I went on terminal leave in late April. The rest of the treatment was through the VA which started pretty quickly after I got out. So my issue is I have only the paperwork from the initial visit after the IED.
I have several witnesses that are willing to write statements for me including someone who was in the vehicle with my and my squad leader.
What is a "MTF"?
It looks like the plan going forward is to get some more witness statements, try the things Caduceus suggested, then contact my Senators. Mark Kelly leaned HEAVY on his veteran status during the elections, lets see if he'll help out.
"MTF" = Military Treatment Facility; i.e., hospital (but it can be something other than 'just' a hospital)
Continuity of timeline is essential. You have to find the follow-up documentation. Do you have a copy of that completed questionnaire, with info about dates of follow up? That should be able to help you access those specific records.
Injury-->medic/corpsman-->first echelon of care (BAS, etc.)-->treatment/documentation-->follow-up care. Hunt down your PL/PC, get a statement about that action, try to hunt down your medic, get a statement about your injuries, etc., etc., right down the line. Any interruption will be a hard stop for the award process.
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