View Full Version : Extended length rifle spring
It is my understanding that a more uniform action spring force throughout the operating range is desirable, and while a longer flat-wire spring achieves this it brings its own issues. The A5 system provides more room for the solid height of the spring compared to the carbine extension and buffer allowing a longer round-wire spring with a lower spring constant.
The rifle buffer artificially reduces the room for the spring by offsetting the spring seat from the face of the buffer. If the spring seat were moved all the way forward like the carbine buffer there would be room for an even longer action spring with a further reduced spring constant. With all the tuning that takes place in the competition realm I imagine this has been tried; has the result been made public?
This question does not arise from any practical need.
Figure by rob_s
https://i.imgur.com/VygL6n0.jpeg
Is this a question? Or are you just saying random things about springs and buffers without any expectation of conversation?
The explicit question was: assuming this has been tried, how did it work? Implicitly: if it is a bad idea, why? Also: why was the rifle system designed with dead space like this? Was full-length spring considered and rejected?
I think you could fix a rifle buffer in a lathe and try a Tubb 308 spring. 42 coils I think.
You could do that but the spring constant would not change; you would instead reduce the preload and force of the spring. A longer round-wire spring makes more sense as the Tubb 308 spring already has a very low spring constant. To maximize the potential of a flat-wire spring in this configuration you would need something like a comically long 60-coil version.
ViniVidivici
08-25-21, 16:26
I don't know why anyone would bother...
It'd be like fixing what ain't broke.
A lot of tuning takes place with race guns. Why would this be any different?
vicious_cb
08-25-21, 22:33
A lot of tuning takes place with race guns. Why would this be any different?
Tune for what? Reliability? The A5 already has that in spades.
Smooth action I suppose. Look at what people will pay for the JP Silent Captured Spring for example.
vicious_cb
08-25-21, 22:52
Smooth action I suppose. Look at what people will pay for the JP Silent Captured Spring for example.
Smooth action? What does that mean? Reduced recoil?
If you want a "smooth action" then lap the rails of your bolt carrier and inside the receiver.
As I opened with "it is my understanding that a more uniform action spring force throughout the operating range is desirable." As also stated this doesn't arise from any practical need. I am simply intellectually curious about one possible path to wring out every drop of gaming performance. It seems likely someone has already tried this, whether or not the results were published. I hoped someone here might know.
Springs don't like to be compressed to coil bind. The rule of thumb is don't compress a spring to more than 50% of its free length if you don't have to, it shorten spring life.
This does two things, it reduces the torsional stress in the wire, and keeps the force v load curve in the linear region.
66365
lysander, thanks for replying. The spring would need to be lengthened some to retain the preset but the compressed length would still be a higher percentage of the free length. Suppose the rifle spring were extended from 13" to 16" free length, and the spring seat on the buffer moved forward 1.5 inches. The ratio of compressed length with the buffer bottomed out would increase from about 34.7% to 37.5%. 4.5"/13" versus 6"/16". (Approximate numbers.) So your point falls in favor of this idea I believe?
Yes, I suppose you could redesign the entire spring system, but to what end?
What you propose would result it a heavier spring, which will change the dynamic motion of the spring.
There are as many ways to skin a cat as there are cats.
No particular end. I am just curious. Does a heavier spring have poorer dynamic behavior in general?
No particular end. I am just curious. Does a heavier spring have poorer dynamic behavior in general?
Like everything, it depends.
It's a system, everything must be in harmony . . .
Tune for what? Reliability? The A5 already has that in spades.
The A5 caused me reliability issues where none previously existed, and were corrected by a Colt carbine spring and H buffer.
The A5 caused me reliability issues where none previously existed, and were corrected by a Colt carbine spring and H buffer.
Well, you are in the extreme minority and I suspect there was something else going on with whatever you were using.
I have the A5 in all of my rifles, including .450 Bushmaster and .458 Socom variants. 16” - 10.4” barrels and all are pretty damned reliable with the exception of the occasional magazine issue in the big bores, which isn’t that uncommon.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.