View Full Version : How is your sector of employment handling vax mandates?
How is your sector of employment handling things? I'm curious which sectors are going to lose a significant percentage of employees. For example, it'll be interesting to watch if the military loses personnel based on the mandates, or if there will be enough pushback that policies are reversed.
My primary employment is in manufacturing, and there is no mandate. Manufacturing has been crippled by lack of willing and capable employees. To push on this sector any harder would cripple companies, probably permanently, as the supply/demand cycle is struggling in the face of Gov interference.
Large Space/Defense Contractor - no vaccine mandate, at least in the U.S. The corporation has not made any vaccinations mandatory for CONUS workers in the past, so there really is no precedent for requiring them, unlike military/health care/education sectors (and more, I am sure).
EDIT Like Nick, we have a vaccination self-reporting tool, but ours is used to determine isolation requirements for employees exposed to Covid positive people.
Andy
I work for a large aerospace company. We have been strongly encouraged to get the vaccine, but a mandate does not look likely. The company has launched an online self-reporting tool in an attempt to determine the percentage of vaxxed employees, but the only indication of what this data is to be used for is the basis for reopening the onsite fitness center. I found this to be interesting because it does not appear to record names, or actually require submitted proof, to complete the self-report. I suspect there are hidden management incentives to get those numbers up.
SilverBullet432
09-08-21, 22:48
I work for one of the Oil & Gas “supermajors”. No mandates (yet) but they are strongly encouraging it. They did a “voluntary vax status self disclosure” recently. Those who disclosed got green lanyards and hard hat stickers.
I am my own sector of employment. I will never require my employees to get vaccinated. I also will not tolerate disputes over vaccination. If you like your job you will not give anyone a hard time over their vaccination status in either direction.
m1a_scoutguy
09-08-21, 23:34
I work for a large dairy packaging plant. Basically, bottle milk & milk products. No Mandates at the moment, just masks for the unvaccinated. I don't think we are @ 50% Vaccinated yet but close, all contractors or any visitors coming into the plant have to wear masks vaccinated or not. Time will tell.
I work for the DoD, we were mandated, but medical and religious exemption are easy to attain. I have a medical exemption and my religious exemption requires supervisor sign-off. My supervisor suffered a severe vaccine reaction when he was vaccinated and is still suffering the consequences.
It’s form 10-263 for anybody needing the paperwork to apply for an exemption.
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My business partner and I will not be mandating anything other than being a good person to be on our team.
He got the mRNA therapy masquerading as a vaccine and I did not.
We both believe in freedom of choice.
I’ve had several teammates come to me in confidence concerned about the potential of a vaccine mandate and I assure them we won’t do it- the relief they feel is palpable and they are very thankful they don’t have to be faced with that type of decision.
Mandating what people put into their bodies as a condition of employment is just insane.
I’m an EMS pilot for a large children’s hospital. Since the approval of the Pfizer jab, vaccines are highly encouraged with financial incentives and a worksheet to track completion and I believe the whole hospital system is at roughly 2/3 vaccinated. Beginning next month non-vaccinated personnel will have to be tested within 72 hours prior to entering the hospital or having contact with hospital personnel.
As far as my job we can fly ‘normally’ (no PPE) if everyone is vaccinated - anyone who isn’t has to wear a procedure mask the entire time. For COVID positive/suspected (i.e. any unconfirmed respiratory illness) transports we are to wear N95 masks, gowns, and gloves and follow certain decontamination procedures post flight for ourselves, our equipment, and our helicopter.
We’re doing a couple of COVID transports a week give or take.
No mandate where I am at and if they mandate it, I will retire early. I can go at any time, it is good to be in that position.
Healthcare, so 100% mandated. I got a religious exemption, good for one year.
I’m an EMS pilot for a large children’s hospital. Since the approval of the Pfizer jab, vaccines are highly encouraged with financial incentives and a worksheet to track completion and I believe the whole hospital system is at roughly 2/3 vaccinated. Beginning next month non-vaccinated personnel will have to be tested within 72 hours prior to entering the hospital or having contact with hospital personnel.
As far as my job we can fly ‘normally’ (no PPE) if everyone is vaccinated - anyone who isn’t has to wear a procedure mask the entire time. For COVID positive/suspected (i.e. any unconfirmed respiratory illness) transports we are to wear N95 masks, gowns, and gloves and follow certain decontamination procedures post flight for ourselves, our equipment, and our helicopter.
We’re doing a couple of COVID transports a week give or take.
Who do you fly for?
When was a flight medic We had PHI and Air Methods. All those pilots were former military, which was a hoot. At that point I had been in enroute care nurse in the Navy so we often spoke the same language.
County government here. So far no vax mandate, but we do have a mask mandate. They tried to make it to where only non vaxxed had to wear masks a few months ago, but that didn't fly due to pushback. Then they went back to the mask mandate for all and then completely dropped it a few weeks later. Now we're back under the mask mandate due to rising delta cases.
International Airline Pilot... 1/2 of the airlines have mandated the vaccine. With the rules for just being allowed to fly to most international destinations being vaccinated, it is just a matter of time before ALL airlines require the shot. If it doesn't happen fast enough, the airlines fall under the DOT/FAA umbrella. An expanded executive order would take care of any straggling companies.
Most airlines are offering a LOT of money for the employees to just go get the shot voluntarily before it gets interesting. Remember, our Constitution means NOTHING the second you land in a country on the other side of the ocean. Lots of us actually will not be able to do our job if we don't get chipped. Most destinations will not let you through customs without the shot.
I work for one of the largest tech companies in the world. They are moving towards mandating vaccination for all US employees. Any employee who does not provide proof of vaccination or who does not have an approved medical or religious accommodation by mid-October will have their access to facilities disabled. Non-"essential" workers will be able to continue to WFH at that point until sometime in early 2022, but if you are "essential" you either get the vax, get an exemption, or pack your shit and go.
Gabriel556
09-09-21, 10:30
My company is not likely to require it because of our “diversity and inclusion” task force’s previous efforts to ensure “my body my choice (of pronouns, medical conditions, disabilities, etc)” allow anyone and everyone to participate. However my wife’s company is pushing to mandate all that do not have a pre-existing condition that could suffer side effects. She is not pushing this and is not interested in a vax shot either. I do not know how this will play out though as one of the other executives who had Covid, and the vax, now has the Delta variant as well. The train of thought is they need to do everything to maintain business continuity (financial institution) and prevent staffing issues. I did mention that if that’s the case, they need to put every woman on birth control then to ensure they don’t have too many of their branch staff get pregnant during the same timeframe.
International Airline Pilot... 1/2 of the airlines have mandated the vaccine. With the rules for just being allowed to fly to most international destinations being vaccinated, it is just a matter of time before ALL airlines require the shot. If it doesn't happen fast enough, the airlines fall under the DOT/FAA umbrella. An expanded executive order would take care of any straggling companies.
Most airlines are offering a LOT of money for the employees to just go get the shot voluntarily before it gets interesting. Remember, our Constitution means NOTHING the second you land in a country on the other side of the ocean. Lots of us actually will not be able to do our job if we don't get chipped. Most destinations will not let you through customs without the shot.
Chipped?
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We service facilities of all types including healthcare and educational.
Mandatory if you want to go to work.
The sad thing is that business is being pushed from the top down to implement such requirements. Businesses can legally violate you’re rights when it’s something the government wants, but are “discriminatory” when a religious private school doesn’t want to hire a gay teacher.
They get a pass when they fire somebody because they don’t want the medical treatment Chairman Joe wants.
This country is past due for a correction.
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My company is not likely to require it because of our “diversity and inclusion” task force’s previous efforts to ensure “my body my choice (of pronouns, medical conditions, disabilities, etc)” allow anyone and everyone to participate.
Yeah, we did all that shit too...I spent all of 2020 in diversity and inclusion training. We're still getting a vax mandate.
Chipped?
Don't you know...Bill Gates put mind-control nanobots in the vaccines.
Virginia's DickTator mandated vaxx for all state employees except for legislative branch. Go figure.
Non-vaxxed will be required to test weekly.
I am a federal contractor. So far it hasn't been
a thing. Company legal says we as an employer can't legally ask. Nothing in any of our contracts. Shitzhizbritchez is probably gonna mandate fed contractors tonight. We're probably gonna change order the $hit out of any non contract requirements, and request blanket immunity in perpetuity from all HIPPA enforcement.
Me, nah. I'm gonna skip it. I may be an asshole, but I'm a VERY employable asshole. I can get another job easier than falling out of bed.
landrvrnut22
09-09-21, 13:20
I work for a small general contractor designated as Service Disabled Veteran Owned Small Business (SDVOSB), as such, we get exclusive bidding opportunities with the VA, DOD, FAA, and NASA. The company I work for is not mandating themselves, however, the VA, FAA, and NASA are requiring it for all contract and subcontract personnel on site. I have resisted getting it, and was really against it, however, with 75% of our work being federal contracts, there is no way around it.
I work for an engineering consultant firm. Mandatory for anyone who works for a client that has mandated it. Optional (for now) for the rest of us.
If that changes, i’ll be finding a new place of employment. A lot of people here will.
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Nothing for my company yet. LLC out of Georgia that owns a bunch of HVAC, Water Treatment, and Electrical service companies around the country. I know the corp office gets spooked every time a local office gets hit.
I need the fake card ASAP.
I still feel like this needs to go to a violent backlash before it slips down the slope.
Averageman
09-09-21, 14:36
Well, Biden just said if your a Federal Employee or a Contractor you have to have the shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YXXzmaRK6M
A Pandemic of the unvaccinated.
It doesn’t look like it’s only govt employees...this is getting around.
How does this work in the private sector??
All employers with 100 or more employees would have to require their workers to be vaccinated or undergo at least weekly Covid-19 testing under a new plan by President Biden to curb the spread of the pandemic, senior administration officials said.
The Labor Department in the coming weeks plans to issue an emergency temporary standard implementing the new requirement, which will cover 80 million private-sector workers, officials said. Businesses that don’t comply can face fines of up to $14,000 per violation, they said.
The employers will also have to give workers paid time off to get vaccinated or to recover from any side effects of getting vaccinated.
The new requirement, set to be announced by Mr. Biden in a speech Thursday, is part of a six-point initiative to boost vaccinations, improve access to testing and make Covid-19 treatments more widely available. The heightened push to combat the pandemic comes amid a surge in infections and increase in hospitalizations and deaths.
It doesn’t look like it’s only govt employees...this is getting around.
How does this work in the private sector??
All employers with 100 or more employees would have to require their workers to be vaccinated or undergo at least weekly Covid-19 testing under a new plan by President Biden to curb the spread of the pandemic, senior administration officials said.
The Labor Department in the coming weeks plans to issue an emergency temporary standard implementing the new requirement, which will cover 80 million private-sector workers, officials said. Businesses that don’t comply can face fines of up to $14,000 per violation, they said.
The employers will also have to give workers paid time off to get vaccinated or to recover from any side effects of getting vaccinated.
The new requirement, set to be announced by Mr. Biden in a speech Thursday, is part of a six-point initiative to boost vaccinations, improve access to testing and make Covid-19 treatments more widely available. The heightened push to combat the pandemic comes amid a surge in infections and increase in hospitalizations and deaths.
Well i’ll be out of a job soon. I said it was going to eventually come to this and here it is. This from the crew that screamed their was a fascist under every rock for four straight years.
F*** every one who’s been advocating this medical authoritarianism for the past year. You’re the reason these fools in charge think they have the moral high ground.
Go read some recent history on governments who went down this road. I think we’re in for some very hard times ahead.
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Averageman
09-09-21, 15:50
Next they will go after your insurance you get through your employer.
I'm just going to say, The first time someone insisted that you piss in a bottle for a job, the whole privacy, medical privacy and any intgrity you had flew out the window.
It doesn’t look like it’s only govt employees...this is getting around.
How does this work in the private sector??
All employers with 100 or more employees would have to require their workers to be vaccinated or undergo at least weekly Covid-19 testing under a new plan by President Biden to curb the spread of the pandemic, senior administration officials said.
The Labor Department in the coming weeks plans to issue an emergency temporary standard implementing the new requirement, which will cover 80 million private-sector workers, officials said. Businesses that don’t comply can face fines of up to $14,000 per violation, they said.
The employers will also have to give workers paid time off to get vaccinated or to recover from any side effects of getting vaccinated.
The new requirement, set to be announced by Mr. Biden in a speech Thursday, is part of a six-point initiative to boost vaccinations, improve access to testing and make Covid-19 treatments more widely available. The heightened push to combat the pandemic comes amid a surge in infections and increase in hospitalizations and deaths.
I think it's hilarious that they're going to try and force employers to do something they themselves couldn't do. I called it when they started the whole "show proof of vax or get tested twice a week" empty threat. There was no infrastructure or funding to support such a mandate across the entire sphere of federal employment. Once the lawsuits are filed and injunctions issued, their bluff is going to fall apart completely. Biden the Feckless is nothing but hot air.
Averageman
09-09-21, 16:19
There will be an injunction and this will be overthrown by SCOTUS.
If this stands, it’s time to go 1776 on their asses.
It’s not their ****ing business.
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There will be an injunction and this will be overthrown by SCOTUS.
Will it matter to Biden the Feckless? I mean SCOTUS already ruled on the new Texas abortion law and yet today the DoJ announced they'll sue Texas over it. How the hell does that work? Does Garland have some superpower that exceeds the Supreme Court? :confused:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justice-department-sues-texas-abortion-law
If this stands, it’s time to go 1776 on their asses.
It’s not their ****ing business.
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Our forefathers would have already been shooting.
Our forefathers would have already been shooting.
Yup.
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There will be an injunction and this will be overthrown by SCOTUS.
............Trump was the tyrant? Bah. We should be throwing this bum and his cadre of fools out of DC. Make Jan 6th look like a walk through Oz.
If this stands, it’s time to go 1776 on their asses.
It’s not their ****ing business.
EXACTLY
Life's a Hillary
09-09-21, 17:23
Our forefathers would have already been shooting.
You sure about that? Washington did institute the first mass vaccination mandate.
SomeOtherGuy
09-09-21, 17:30
gems:
Joe Biden last year:
I don't trust the Trump vaccine.
Joe Biden this year:
You lose your job if you don't trust the vaccine.
The Hill
@thehill
.@VP Kamala Harris: "The right of women to make decisions about their own bodies is not negotiable. The right of women to make decisions about their own bodies is their decision, it is their body."
---------------------
"Hap317" She's right. Women can make decisions about their own bodies.
I now identify as a woman and will make a decision to not get vaccinated.
Averageman
09-09-21, 17:40
After being the Al Queda's/Taliban's Bitch, he decides to get all rough and tuff here at home?
Naaah, not compliant, not vaccinated, I wear no mask, and thaT Goofy Old Man can kiss my A..
titsonritz
09-09-21, 18:26
It doesn't matter what sector you're in (except gov. no doubt) companies with 100 or more employees are ordered to vaccinate workers or test them weekly. Add I quote "My job as president is to protect all Americans.". What a tool.
Biden declares sweeping new vaccine mandate: 'This is not about freedom' (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-declares-sweeping-new-vaccine-mandate-this-is-not-about-freedom)
After being the Al Queda's/Taliban's Bitch, he decides to get all rough and tuff here at home?
Naaah, not compliant, not vaccinated, I wear no mask, and thaT Goofy Old Man can kiss my A..
This^. Spoke to our AO today, that it was no disrespect to the executive management but I'm just not willing to bend on any of this crap. Just hit 15 years with the Bureau this month and would be insane to throw it away but if I have to do it, seems to be a lot of job openings. Would imagine there are some sheriffs departments and PDs that might be understaffed at this point...
So is there a direct number for me to tell Shitzizpantz to KISS MY ASS!
I was declared "essential" by the feds last year. I was told point blank by a contracting officer "if you lose any people just replace them I DON'T CARE. You are required to perform your contract NO MATTER WHAT. The pandemic doesn't matter" Of course their people WOULD NOT come to the site.
It doesn't matter what sector you're in (except gov. no doubt) companies with 100 or more employees are ordered to vaccinate workers or test them weekly. Add I quote "My job as president is to protect all Americans.". What a tool.
Biden declares sweeping new vaccine mandate: 'This is not about freedom' (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-declares-sweeping-new-vaccine-mandate-this-is-not-about-freedom)
Is protecting all American what that piece of shit did when he handed terrorists that want to destroy America superior weapons?
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If this is factual...wow. Gotta keep those fake ballots flowing.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/report-us-postal-workers-exempt-bidens-federal-vax-mandate-private-businesses-face-14000-fine-per-violation/
Of course it is true, why else have they been fighting election audits?
You only fight something when there is something to hide.
Next they will go after your insurance you get through your employer.
I'm just going to say, The first time someone insisted that you piss in a bottle for a job, the whole privacy, medical privacy and any intgrity you had flew out the window.
Some companies have been doing random drug testing for a long while now.
Had a job a few years back where during a 'safety meeting' with one of our clients, a few coworkers and the owner of the company I was working for at the time and the client told us all that they required everyone working on 'their job site' to submit a drug test and then explained how they also had a company that worked for them that traveled the country to ALL of their jobs and did random screenings. Said we could be random tested while on their job next month or next year or whenever at random. Anyone refusing a test 'if' one of those random screenings was going down would be banned from their job sites blah, blah, blah.
As soon as we got out the door from that meeting I told my employer I was not going to be submitting to any of that crap. He started to say something in reply and I cut him off letting him know that I made a 'statement' and was not going to engage in a 'discussion' about it. He never said another word about it.
There are so many people / companies looking for good help currently that it is ridiculous...
I think it's hilarious that they're going to try and force employers to do something they themselves couldn't do. I called it when they started the whole "show proof of vax or get tested twice a week" empty threat. There was no infrastructure or funding to support such a mandate across the entire sphere of federal employment. Once the lawsuits are filed and injunctions issued, their bluff is going to fall apart completely. Biden the Feckless is nothing but hot air.
It smells to me really similar to what they did with Obamacare and the employer mandate.
Was it 50 or 100 'full time' 'employees' they could have before if they went over that they had to provide health care insurance?
And some businesses responded by reducing hours so they had less full time staff...
It smells to me really similar to what they did with Obamacare and the employer mandate.
Was it 50 or 100 'full time' 'employees' they could have before if they went over that they had to provide health care insurance?
And some businesses responded by reducing hours so they had less full time staff...
My family’s business did just that. Everybody gets “part time” hours. And a bonus.
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I'm a healthcare worker and I'm also in my senior year of nursing school, so I'm mandated by my employer and my school (as well as all my clinical sites).
I don't like being told what to do, but vaccine mandates are nothing new to me. I'm required to get yearly flu shots and provide documentation on all my other required vaccinations. I actually have more of an issue with the flu vaccine in all honesty.
I'm a healthcare worker and I'm also in my senior year of nursing school, so I'm mandated by my employer and my school (as well as all my clinical sites).
I don't like being told what to do, but vaccine mandates are nothing new to me. I'm required to get yearly flu shots and provide documentation on all my other required vaccinations. I actually have more of an issue with the flu vaccine in all honesty.
Had the flu jab around 25 years ago for the first and only time...that afternoon was the sickest I've ever been in my whole life for the next two weeks.Have not had the flu jab or flu since & in my 50's. Literally everyone I know who catches the flu gets the vaccine every year without question & simply strikes it up as 'they' guessed the wrong strain. Already snake bit, I'm now to blindly trust 'they' got this particular corona cootie figured out on a fast track when the common cold / flu have had decades to be eradicated. Gotcha, here's my arm. Figure out the cold & flu & then we'll talk...shove your C19 mandate jab.
Had the flu jab around 25 years ago for the first and only time...that afternoon was the sickest I've ever been in my whole life for the next two weeks.Have not had the flu jab or flu since & in my 50's. Literally everyone I know who catches the flu gets the vaccine every year without question & simply strikes it up as 'they' guessed the wrong strain. Already snake bit, I'm now to blindly trust 'they' got this particular corona cootie figured out on a fast track when the common cold / flu have had decades to be eradicated. Gotcha, here's my arm. Figure out the cold & flu & then we'll talk...shove your C19 mandate jab.
They're completely different beasts. That's like saying you won't carry a G19 because the G44 is trash.
I got sick from my first flu shot (the experts say that's impossible but I wasn't exposed to anyone with the flu and I was sick as hell 3 days post jab), got the flu a month after my second shot, but the other two times it worked. I'm due for a 5th annual flu shot soon. The flu shot is indeed an (educated) guess. The COVID vax is not a guessing game, and uses a different mechanism than the flu shot. I'm not trying to convince you to get either jab, but I will say you should judge the merits of the COVID vaccine independently of other vaccines.
The way Pfizer and Moderna work—to the best of my knowledge at least—is that it makes your body produce a harmless component of the SARS CoV2 virus, which your body will in turn recognize as foreign and destroy. The "memory" of how it destroys that dud virus component is what gives you immunity against the real virus.
With my COVID vax (Moderna), I had no symptoms after the first dose, but approx 15 hours after the second dose I had a headache, body aches, and fever/chills. This wasn't illness, but rather my body's immune response. It was actually a very reassuring sign (to me, at least). A couple ibuprofren, a vitamin, and a nap made those side effects go away. I consider it a small price to pay, but YMMV.
Please keep the thread on point. Plenty of threads to discuss vaccine effectiveness, etc.
Andy
Averageman
09-10-21, 07:38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFIsYayi54Y
Joe Biden just took his famous "ShotGun" and blasted both barrels in to the Constitution and no one say's Boo!
Well... maybe I will be able to shed some of the stress I mentioned in the " Widow maker" thread after all.
The more Shitzizpantz foams at the mouth, the more determined I get not to take the shot.
I may have to step back a little in pay, but I'm sure I can find a private sector, sub 100 employee, construction or CM company that would love to have my ENR top 10 experience. Hell, maybe I'll just go into independent consulting/training.
Averageman
09-10-21, 09:03
Well... maybe I will be able to shed some of the stress I mentioned in the " Widow maker" thread after all.
The more Shitzizpantz foams at the mouth, the more determined I get not to take the shot.
I may have to step back a little in pay, but I'm sure I can find a private sector, sub 100 employee, construction or CM company that would love to have my ENR top 10 experience. Hell, maybe I'll just go into independent consulting/training.
Or become a Private Contractor yourself?
Or become a Private Contractor yourself?
Been there, done that. It brings out the worst in terms of my workaholic tendencies.
Grand58742
09-10-21, 12:25
I halfheartedly chuckle at the politicians screeching about this being "Unconstitutional."
As if the left has given one flying rat's backside about the Constitution for years...
Grand58742
09-10-21, 12:28
Hey, remember when the left kept screaming about Trump trying to create an authoritarian government?
Yeah, those were the good times...
Meanwhile, democrats are screaming “my body my choice” in Texas. The irony. Kill ‘em all and let God sort it out.
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SilverBullet432
09-10-21, 16:03
Interesting. Very interesting…. “Members of congress, staff exempt from Biden vaccine mandate”
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/09/members-of-congress-staff-exempt-from-biden-covid-19-vaccine-mandate/?fbclid=IwAR077kxGMgwRHz0Fz8zxYEiATUwEtIqMJBPjeRuUJkJs-x5SZHhGGoGqZtA
Meanwhile, democrats are screaming “my body my choice” in Texas. The irony. Kill ‘em all and let God sort it out.
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Care to clarify that last sentence?
militarymoron
09-10-21, 17:21
Large Space/Defense Contractor - no vaccine mandate, at least in the U.S. The corporation has not made any vaccinations mandatory for CONUS workers in the past, so there really is no precedent for requiring them, unlike military/health care/education sectors (and more, I am sure).
EDIT Like Nick, we have a vaccination self-reporting tool, but ours is used to determine isolation requirements for employees exposed to Covid positive people.
Andy
Let me guess - Boeing Huntsville?
Same here - no vaccination mandate; just the wearing of masks while at work indoors. This weekend is the funeral of one of our technicians who was an anti-vaxxer. He died from Covid.
Care to clarify that last sentence?
No.
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Diamondback
09-10-21, 17:51
Hey, remember when the left kept screaming about Trump trying to create an authoritarian government?
Yeah, those were the good times...
Remember, when the Left accuse you of something they're declaring their OWN plans.
What I find quite interesting and amusing is how many people on a forum devoted to the love and exercise of the Second Amendment acquiesce to the demands of a tyrant.
I’m wondering if those same people continuously wonder why their RTKBA keeps being eroded?
There must be a correlation there, I’m sure of it.
As for me, I work for a small Architectural firm and our large corporate clients have not mandated us to get the jab. Even if they do, I won’t. If my boss makes it mandatory I’m going to find the most crooked blood sucking lawyer and sue. My boss is one of my closest friends now, but it is what it is.
Interesting. Very interesting…. “Members of congress, staff exempt from Biden vaccine mandate”
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/09/members-of-congress-staff-exempt-from-biden-covid-19-vaccine-mandate/?fbclid=IwAR077kxGMgwRHz0Fz8zxYEiATUwEtIqMJBPjeRuUJkJs-x5SZHhGGoGqZtA
More of the 'Rules for thee but not for me' crap. If the crap is so 'safe' why are they not lining up and rolling up THEIR sleeves?
How many times to these bozos have to exempt themselves from crappy rules before people figure out that when they exempt themselves - It is NOT a good deal for us!
Screw them all.
No.
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Typical internet tough guy. I’m sure you feel righteous but you are part of the problem in the country.
Healthcare so it’s mandatory, unless you get an exemption.
Typical internet tough guy. I’m sure you feel righteous but you are part of the problem in the country.
Dude, have you never heard the expression?
**** off.
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Dude, have you never heard the expression?
**** off.
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Settle down tough guy. I’ve heard the expression before. I don’t think killing fellow Americans is something to be thrown around lightly. If you do I doubt you’ve ever seen any real violence first hand. That kind of rhetoric isn’t the way to improve things, but I doubt that’s what you’re after.
Settle down tough guy. I’ve heard the expression before. I don’t think killing fellow Americans is something to be thrown around lightly. If you do I doubt you’ve ever seen any real violence first hand. That kind of rhetoric isn’t the way to improve things, but I doubt that’s what you’re after.
Seriously, GFY.
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Dude, have you never heard the expression?
**** off.
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We must NOT divide ourselves! Not now.
fight later.... for now, stand shoulder to shoulder and protect each other.
It's important, goddammit.
Sent my letter with medical and religious objections to my boss after hearing the moron in the white house blabber yesterday. I'm a little concerned as 15 years with the .gov with the biggest perk at this point being a decent retirement package hanging in the balance. Hoping someone actually shows there's no power to actually do this to anyone, us in the .gov included. Elections have consequences. Just makes me angrier at all the fools that made a biden presidency even possible.
Seriously, GFY.
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Sorry snowflake, need a safe space?
Sorry snowflake, need a safe space?
Again, GFY. What do you think you’re accomplishing?
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Again, GFY.
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Fellas.. THIS is how they win.
Again, GFY. What do you think you’re accomplishing?
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WATCH OUT EVERY ONE WE GOT A TOUGH GUY HERE
WATCH OUT EVERY ONE WE GOT A TOUGH GUY HERE
Nobody claimed to be any sort of tough guy or anything else. You’re a ****ing psychopath.
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Nobody claimed to be any sort of tough guy or anything else. You’re a ****ing psychopath.
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Whatever dude, have a blessed day. I hope you can get the help you clearly need.
Fellas.. THIS is how they win.
Indeed.
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Indeed.
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Yeah.... man.. you and me might disagree on lots of trivial shit, brother... but NONE of it is an monu-****ing-mental as what WE disagree with THEM over. NEVER forget that....WE are we...a nd THEY are them.
I'll stand with you now and forever.
UNA STAMUS.... "we stand as one"
What I find quite interesting and amusing is how many people on a forum devoted to the love and exercise of the Second Amendment acquiesce to the demands of a tyrant.
I’m wondering if those same people continuously wonder why their RTKBA keeps being eroded?
There must be a correlation there, I’m sure of it.
As for me, I work for a small Architectural firm and our large corporate clients have not mandated us to get the jab. Even if they do, I won’t. If my boss makes it mandatory I’m going to find the most crooked blood sucking lawyer and sue. My boss is one of my closest friends now, but it is what it is.
Some of us got vaccinated before it became a political issue.
I have been clear since day one that it should be a personal choice, not a mandated one.
Andy
Some of us got vaccinated before it became a political issue.
Andy
And vaccines are a personal decision. I don’t think less of anybody for getting vaccinated. Nor should anyone. The problem is when a president thinks he has the right to take away your livelihood because you don’t want one.
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Let me guess - Boeing Huntsville?
I work on a G14 classified project and cannot confirm or deny my employer's identity.
Ok, not really, but OPSEC...
Andy
militarymoron
09-11-21, 00:02
I work on a G14 classified project and cannot confirm or deny my employer's identity.
Ok, not really, but OPSEC...
Andy
LOL - I still remember that movie. PERSEC is always a good thing :)
I am literally at the point that I am NEVER gonna get the vax. I'm gonna take my empty gesture to the wall. I've started being as brutal and ugly to people about it as the bandleaders on the left. I'm done and I don't care what it costs me.
I'll try not to go off on the forum, but I'm losing my shit. Dude (not too condescending, but enough) said "just get the shot, there's not much risk and it's over in a second. Just man up!" I said "same is true of Russian Roulette, you go first M - F'er!" I also more or less told him I'd hurt him if he brought it up again.
Averageman
09-11-21, 10:46
I am literally at the point that I am NEVER gonna get the vax. I'm gonna take my empty gesture to the wall. I've started being as brutal and ugly to people about it as the bandleaders on the left. I'm done and I don't care what it costs me.
I'll try not to go off on the forum, but I'm losing my shit. Dude (not too condescending, but enough) said "just get the shot, there's not much risk and it's over in a second. Just man up!" I said "same is true of Russian Roulette, you go first M - F'er!" I also more or less told him I'd hurt him if he brought it up again.
I'm with you. No Vax, No Mask, No Compliance, I've had enough and I'm sick of it already.
Some of us got vaccinated before it became a political issue.
I have been clear since day one that it should be a personal choice, not a mandated one.
Andy
Not talking about those in your camp, sir.
Talking about those who say “I’m don’t want to get vaccinated but if my boss says I have to I will hop to”
I work for a government agency and I know a few that are dead set against getting it. Not sure what's going to happen or how many will leave. Guess "my body my choice" isn't the cool thing anymore...
I am over all of it and once we put out the visitor forms that I had to hand out asking if they had the vaccine or not was the last time I had a visitor for my department. I told my staff until further notice there are no visitors allowed. I don't care if you have it or not, and I'm tired of people being rude that it's impacting others by you not getting it. Who cares, just be nice!
I work for a government agency and I know a few that are dead set against getting it. Not sure what's going to happen or how many will leave. Guess "my body my choice" isn't the cool thing anymore...
I am over all of it and once we put out the visitor forms that I had to hand out asking if they had the vaccine or not was the last time I had a visitor for my department. I told my staff until further notice there are no visitors allowed. I don't care if you have it or not, and I'm tired of people being rude that it's impacting others by you not getting it. Who cares, just be nice!
Yeah, without going into detail I've been handed those cards. I take em without comment and hand the guy back the card to our legal team. So far I have "neglected" to fill them out and they have "neglected" to ask for them.
If FPS asks us to stop working and leave, we will comply and ask for them to issue a stop work order. Til then...
Not talking about those in your camp, sir.
Talking about those who say “I’m don’t want to get vaccinated but if my boss says I have to I will hop to”
I'm tracking, but some areas are threatening no unemployment for anyone fired due to non-compliance and for someone making 40K or less with a family, thats a big deal. Not everyone belongs to the postal union.
Pretty nefarious, but completely in character for the marxists to sh!t on the worker. What do those limosine liberals care about "the poors" anyway?
Andy
I read something pertinent from the Mises Institute (https://mises.org/wire/vaccine-mandates-and-great-reset) that at least helps explain why the politicians are going full burner for this, despite growing evidence that the vaccines don't have much impact on preventing spread of the virus.
In short, they lose face doing anything else, no matter what the evidence suggests. Politicians have to look like they're doing something and the crumbling Biden admin is being carried so hard by the media they need something else to focus the public on.
Health care and military. So you can guess. Having said that, I took it back in Jan. I really don't care, I've been in the medical field for 2 decades. Vaccinations are a way of life.
@DirectTo ... i wondered about that. You can't just crack a window and fly for a few minutes to "air out" the helo? :)
Man, I have filled out, and then deleted, the "contact the president" form at whitehouse.gov multiple times. I want to directly tell that diaper shitting mongoloid (or at least some worthless shit eating staffer) exactly what I think of him AND his mandate (no threats, just VERY honest and blunt). Part of me doesn't GAF that I know these scum would target me for false prosecution, persecution, or share my personal info with their violent thug BLMshirts. Then I realize I'm asking for trouble without any viable reward.
I've written some good lines though...
"most disastrous botched pullout since Hunter's conception" is a personal fave.
I gotta get my head around "juice v squeeze". I feel like a p@$$y for chickening out, but the reality of fresh new Lon Horiuchi's is a real thing.
Averageman
09-12-21, 08:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qtZfppSH9g
Yeah, that's right !
Man, I have filled out, and then deleted, the "contact the president" form at whitehouse.gov multiple times. I want to directly tell that diaper shitting mongoloid (or at least some worthless shit eating staffer) exactly what I think of him AND his mandate (no threats, just VERY honest and blunt). Part of me doesn't GAF that I know these scum would target me for false prosecution, persecution, or share my personal info with their violent thug BLMshirts. Then I realize I'm asking for trouble without any viable reward.
I've written some good lines though...
"most disastrous botched pullout since Hunter's conception" is a personal fave.
I gotta get my head around "juice v squeeze". I feel like a p@$$y for chickening out, but the reality of fresh new Lon Horiuchi's is a real thing.
You think there aren't agents monitoring this site for "subversives?" Might as well write it now as they've already seen it in print.
Averageman
09-12-21, 10:10
I was looking at implied consent as in regards to Covid-19.
Although they want you to take the vaccine, what is your current status? Have you had Covid? Do you have the antibodies showing you had Covid-19?
You see unless they can answer those questions they can't force you to take a vaccine that you already have natural antibodies for.
So, demand to know your risk as it pretains to your covid status as it relates to antibody status. 80+ percent of us have the antibodies, if you demand to know your antibody status, then they have to tell you in order for you to legally know the full risks.
It's a catch 22, but this one can work for you.
militarymoron
09-12-21, 11:31
Guess "my body my choice" isn't the cool thing anymore...
Well, 'my body my choice' works for certain things that don't affect anyone else. Fine if you live in a vacuum. I couldn't care less if someone wants to smoke. Just not around me - I don't want to smell that crap. I also don't care if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated or wear a mask unless we're forced to work in close physical proximity as it can affect my health.
Diamondback
09-12-21, 13:06
"most disastrous botched pullout since Hunter's conception" is a personal fave.
More like "most disastrous botched pull-out since his own conception...
Dr Strangetweet on Twitter had a doozy, which I've unrolled on Threadreader for your convenience... https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1436422990149865481.html
-------------begin copypasta, liht edit for F-bombs-------------------
I keep seeing history being rewritten so let me offer a CliffsNotes version:
We. All. F***ing. Stayed. Home.
We all masked. We were all "in this together" until the restrictions became unreasonable.
We didn't get haircuts. We missed deaths of loved ones from other diseases. We put off funerals.
We put on masks. We social distanced.
Not for 15 days. But 30 days. 45 days.
We watched as our businesses closed, our events canceled.
And then we watched Nancy Pelosi get a haircut.
And you defended her.
We watched Gavin have dinner with friends.
And you defended him.
We watched as you protested and rioted and looted and burned, all the while telling us we were horrible for being mad about the draconian measures implemented that shut down our gyms and bars and theaters.
We were "in this together" when you said you wouldn't trust a vaccine under Trump.
We were "in this together" when you acted like the experts knew what the f*** they were talking about even as they changed their position in the matter of days.
We did it your way.
It didn't work.
So take your revisionist bullshit and go hide under your bed.
[snip]
You think your patience is running out?
[snip]
Our patience ran out last year, early this year.
Welcome to the club.
Well, 'my body my choice' works for certain things that don't affect anyone else. Fine if you live in a vacuum. I couldn't care less if someone wants to smoke. Just not around me - I don't want to smell that crap. I also don't care if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated or wear a mask unless we're forced to work in close physical proximity as it can affect my health.
Vaccinated or not, viral load appears to be the same…and the vaccinated spread just the same.
Not really a good argument here. But you also have the freedom to not go around people you fear aren’t vaccinated if that’s your position. Who is “forcing” you to work around them? You’re not a slave. But you are on quite the slippery slope.
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Vaccinated or not, viral load appears to be the same…and the vaccinated spread just the same.
Not really a good argument here. But you also have the freedom to not go around people you fear aren’t vaccinated if that’s your position. Who is “forcing” you to work around them? You’re not a slave. But you are on quite the slippery slope.
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Yeah.... "living in a vacuum" is code language for "you must prioritize MY needs above your own freedom".
Stay home if you dont like it.
Diamondback
09-12-21, 16:13
https://i.ibb.co/Ct1DVwp/stop3.jpg
I’m curious to see what the language of the FAR clause will be for federal contractors. It will be a flow down clause which means lots of small business subcontractors will be effected. I know that the primes are going to have trouble finding local sub’s in certain areas. They are under 100 employees which means that if they avoid federal money they won’t have to deal with it.
I’m sure a REA or two will come in whenever this gets implemented.
militarymoron
09-12-21, 18:36
Vaccinated or not, viral load appears to be the same…and the vaccinated spread just the same.
Not really a good argument here. But you also have the freedom to not go around people you fear aren’t vaccinated if that’s your position. Who is “forcing” you to work around them? You’re not a slave. But you are on quite the slippery slope.
Vaccinated people clear the viral load faster than un-vaccinated people. Clearing it faster means less viral load to spread to others. But, you have the freedom to believe whatever you want - we all do.
No one's 'forcing' them to come to work as well. They have the freedom to sit at home with their masks off and find work somewhere else where they don't have to wear masks or be vaccinated. They're not slaves. They're on an even more slippery slope than I am. I'll have a job while they won't. If you want to work in a private business, you follow their rules. Else, you can exercise your freedom to work elsewhere.
I actually think that the virus is a blessing in disguise. We have too many people on this planet, and the herd needs to be thinned.
Vaccinated people clear the viral load faster than un-vaccinated people. Clearing it faster means less viral load to spread to others. But, you have the freedom to believe whatever you want - we all do.
No one's 'forcing' them to come to work as well. They have the freedom to sit at home with their masks off and find work somewhere else where they don't have to wear masks or be vaccinated. They're not slaves. They're on an even more slippery slope than I am. I'll have a job while they won't. If you want to work in a private business, you follow their rules. Else, you can exercise your freedom to work elsewhere.
I actually think that the virus is a blessing in disguise. We have too many people on this planet, and the herd needs to be thinned.
While that seems to be a point of contention, the quarantine period is the same.
You see, the problem is you would behave as a dictatorial tyrant who would have others’ forced against their will to take something potentially harmful to them.
You believe your right to be around only vaccinated trumps their rights. Life has risks. Get over it.
Private business you say? Therein lies the problem. This is a back door Federal mandate using OSHA.
If you think the heard is being thinned by COVID and it’s a blessing, I will pray for your soul. You sound like a hateful, evil person that you wish death on others and tyranny.
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militarymoron
09-12-21, 19:10
While that seems to be a point of contention, the quarantine period is the same.
You see, the problem is you would behave as a dictatorial tyrant who would have others’ forced against their will to take something potentially harmful to them.
You believe your right to be around only vaccinated trumps their rights. Life has risks. Get over it. Private business you say? Therein lies the problem. This is a back door Federal mandate using OSHA.
If you think the heard is being thinned by COVID and it’s a blessing, I will pray for your soul. You sound like a hateful, evil person that you wish death on others and tyranny.
You think the vaccine is potentially harmful? Life has risks. Get over it. You think you have to right to infect others? That sounds like a selfish, hateful, evil person. I'll pray for your soul as well. Speaking of 'thinning the herd' - ever been taught about the great flood?
If you live out on your own land, you can drive on whatever side of the road you want. If you live in society, you comply and drive on the right side of the road as your 'freedom' to drive however you want (my car my choice) doesn't trump the danger to others. You have to stop at red lights too. At the shooting range we have tyrannical line breaks and 'downrange' directions where everyone has to point their guns. Get over it - society is full of rules. Some of these are common sense, but not everyone has that.
You think the vaccine is potentially harmful? Life has risks. Get over it. You think you have to right to infect others? That sounds like a selfish, hateful, evil person. I'll pray for your soul as well.
If you live out on your own land, you can drive on whatever side of the road you want. If you live in society, you comply and drive on the right side of the road as your 'freedom' to drive however you want (my car my choice) doesn't trump the danger to others. You have to stop at red lights too. At the shooting range we have line breaks and 'downrange'. Get over it - society is full of rules. Some of these are common sense, but not everyone has that.
Getting the vaccination doesn’t stop you from infecting others. If you’re worried about infection, keep your ass home.
It isn’t that one “thinks” it’s potentially harmful. It is. Risks should be assessed by the individual. You’re supporting forcing one to take risks.
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Averageman
09-12-21, 19:28
You think the vaccine is potentially harmful? Life has risks. Get over it. You think you have to right to infect others? That sounds like a selfish, hateful, evil person. I'll pray for your soul as well.
If you live out on your own land, you can drive on whatever side of the road you want. If you live in society, you comply and drive on the right side of the road as your 'freedom' to drive however you want (my car my choice) doesn't trump the danger to others. You have to stop at red lights too. At the shooting range we have line breaks and 'downrange'. Get over it - society is full of rules. Some of these are common sense, but not everyone has that.
It would appear from what I have read, the vaccinated pass the virus along just as well as the unvaccinated.
Also 80% of us are walking around with the antibodies now, so if I've had the virus and shrugged it off, well, I would like to know before I get vaccinated for something I've already had. If you insist we take this further, you can pay for my test, but if you pressure me to take a vaccine without my being fully informed, i.e. know if I've got the antibodies, well, I will sue you for everything you ever dreamed of having.
So If I choose to remain vaccine free, or choose to wait and see, well that's my choice, not yours.
I've pretty much stayed out of this thread and others related to the Wuhan. It is amazing to me though how some on this forum are willing to destroy the lives of others based upon a vastly survivable virus. No medical care for the unvaccinated, no work, don't come near me....all in the name of compassion. This virus and vaccine sure have people running to to the draconian, that's for sure.
I've pretty much stayed out of this thread and others related to the Wuhan. It is amazing to me though how some on this forum are willing to destroy the lives of others based upon a vastly survivable virus. No medical care for the unvaccinated, no work, don't come near me....all in the name of compassion. This virus and vaccine sure have people running to to the draconian, that's for sure.
We are certainly learning where people stand. There are would-be tyrants everywhere that do not value freedom or liberty.
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militarymoron
09-12-21, 19:54
Getting the vaccination doesn’t stop you from infecting others. If you’re worried about infection, keep your ass home.
It isn’t that one “thinks” it’s potentially harmful. It is. Risks should be assessed by the individual. You’re supporting forcing one to take risks.
No one said that being vaccinated stops you from infecting others. Being vaccinated reduces the concern (for now) - no need to stay at home.
Now I'm confused - you say that I'm supporting forcing one to take risks? Are they slaves? No one's being forced. They have choices. Risk to oneself should be assessed by the individual. Risk to others - well, that's another thing.
Diamondback
09-12-21, 19:56
Things that make you go "Hmmmmm"...
A 'vaccine' so safe it has to be FORCED on people, for a virus so lethal you have to be tested to know you have it.
Things that make you go "Hmmmmm"...
A 'vaccine' so safe it has to be FORCED on people, for a virus so lethal you have to be tested to know you have it.
Interesting, isn't it?
militarymoron
09-12-21, 20:13
It would appear from what I have read, the vaccinated pass the virus along just as well as the unvaccinated.
Also 80% of us are walking around with the antibodies now, so if I've had the virus and shrugged it off, well, I would like to know before I get vaccinated for something I've already had. If you insist we take this further, you can pay for my test, but if you pressure me to take a vaccine without my being fully informed, i.e. know if I've got the antibodies, well, I will sue you for everything you ever dreamed of having.
So If I choose to remain vaccine free, or choose to wait and see, well that's my choice, not yours.
Nope, I'm not for vaccine mandates at all. In the context of this discussion (workplace/employment) where people are brought together out of the necessity to earn a living, I'd go with what I believed to be lower risk option if I still wanted to show up for work. Sitting at home is an option for everyone, but that wasn't what the original thread question was about.
Nope, I'm not for vaccine mandates at all. In the context of this discussion (workplace/employment) where people are brought together out of the necessity to earn a living, I'd go with what I believed to be lower risk option if I still wanted to show up for work. Sitting at home is an option for everyone, but that wasn't what the original thread question was about.
Well, 'my body my choice' works for certain things that don't affect anyone else. Fine if you live in a vacuum. I couldn't care less if someone wants to smoke. Just not around me - I don't want to smell that crap. I also don't care if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated or wear a mask unless we're forced to work in close physical proximity as it can affect my health.
You seem to contradict yourself.
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You seem to contradict yourself.
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You are not the only one that caught that.
Breaking News
This week Biden is going to announce an adult diaper mandate and outlaw flush toilets in the workplace. If sitting around stewing in his own filth all day is good enough for the President, it's good enough for everyone!
Besides, flush toilets are a waste of water...
and "pudding".
;)
Things that make you go "Hmmmmm"...
A 'vaccine' so safe it has to be FORCED on people, for a virus so lethal you have to be tested to know you have it.
A vaccine that may protect you from other vaccinated people but is rendered ineffective by an unvaccinated Covid positive person.
A glance at the numbers will make it obvious that Biden's handlers timed his announcement to allow them to take credit for the significant downward trend in new U.S. covid cases.
Andy
Breaking News
This week Biden is going to announce an adult diaper mandate and outlaw flush toilets in the workplace. If sitting around stewing in his own filth all day is good enough for the President, it's good enough for everyone!
Besides, flush toilets are a waste of water...
and "pudding".
;)
I'm 68 now, I started with diapers and will end with diapers. LOL. But you know there is some eco-weenie somewhere thinking this is a good idea. Saving water and the planet and all.
If the President and the rest of the left can mandate this, can they mandate so many other cool things? You know the wheels are turning. CDC determines that guns are a REALLY eminent health problem, and then they encourage employers to implement "you got guns, no work for you"...all gov't law enforcement exempt of course.
Funny how in Russia the jabs are not 'mandated' but here...
Says a lot about the current regime here.
I've pretty much stayed out of this thread and others related to the Wuhan. It is amazing to me though how some on this forum are willing to destroy the lives of others based upon a vastly survivable virus. No medical care for the unvaccinated, no work, don't come near me....all in the name of compassion. This virus and vaccine sure have people running to to the draconian, that's for sure.
...and for my next trick, I'll transmit a virus I don't have to somebody who's been immunized to it!!
This is where we are now?? REALLY?? Those who buy into this whole the asymptomatic spread are the real problem shit regardless of your jab status have now LITERALLY destroyed the ability to reason a logical discussion of true transmission which is now leading to our demise. So disappointing. EVERYONE is a walking cootie & the ONLY way for you not to get the cootie is for EVERYONE to get the jab so YOUR Jab will work & then line up for boosters & any other jab / procedure THEY SAY YOU NEED IN THE FUTURE FOREVER!!
Wow...
Averageman
09-12-21, 20:57
Nope, I'm not for vaccine mandates at all. In the context of this discussion (workplace/employment) where people are brought together out of the necessity to earn a living, I'd go with what I believed to be lower risk option if I still wanted to show up for work. Sitting at home is an option for everyone, but that wasn't what the original thread question was about.
Well you could say out of necessity to earn a living, or you could say, that's simply none of your business.
Do you remember when we started asking all homosexuals for their HIV status ? Either do I so, my status is my business and we are going to keep it that way. Anything less is simply Unconstitutional.
militarymoron
09-12-21, 21:24
Well you could say out of necessity to earn a living, or you could say, that's simply none of your business.
Do you remember when we started asking all homosexuals for their HIV status ? Either do I so, my status is my business and we are going to keep it that way. Anything less is simply Unconstitutional.
We had this discussion at work; about what a company can (for now) and cannot do, should, and what might happen. Someone shared this article: https://www.natlawreview.com/article/confusion-over-privacy-hipaa-constitution-and-covid-19
militarymoron
09-12-21, 21:29
You seem to contradict yourself.
Yeah - maybe I'm just not good at articulating my thoughts. Won't be the last time, I'm sure. This whole thing (amongst other things in the world) is a cluster. That, I'm sure of.
I'm tracking, but some areas are threatening no unemployment for anyone fired due to non-compliance and for someone making 40K or less with a family, thats a big deal. Not everyone belongs to the postal union.
Pretty nefarious, but completely in character for the marxists to sh!t on the worker. What do those limosine liberals care about "the poors" anyway?
Andy
I get it, people have bills to pay and kids to feed. Having said that, people in 1776 had bills and kids to feed as well but they had their priorities in check. If that group was replaced with this group we would still have the Queen of England on our money.
Well, 'my body my choice' works for certain things that don't affect anyone else. Fine if you live in a vacuum. I couldn't care less if someone wants to smoke. Just not around me - I don't want to smell that crap. I also don't care if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated or wear a mask unless we're forced to work in close physical proximity as it can affect my health.
Are you for real bro?
66435
Gotta love socialized medicine. The vax doesn't work until every member of society falls in line.
"Give me liberty or give me (a .02% chance of) death!"
militarymoron
09-13-21, 09:00
Are you for real bro?
Yeah, unfortunately, and this is only after a couple of people at work got COVID (one got it from a family member, then the other co-worker got it from him as far as we know) and were pretty sick. This was just before the vaccines came out. Since we work in manufacturing, you can't make stuff from home, so we've all been at work through the lockdowns (unless we could do some work from home) as essential defense workers. I mentioned earlier that one of our unvaccinated techs recently died from COVID. Other co-workers have family members or people they know who have died, so these stories hit closer to home more and more.
Next year will be my 30th year at this company, and I've worked closely with many of these people for more than two decades. We have all sorts at work here - those who were first line to get the vax, and those who swore they will never get it. However, as this stuff affects us at a more personal level, it's giving us all pause to reconsider what we know, believe, or thought we knew, and we all have civil, earnest discussions about it since we do work side by side on a daily basis. We each care about each other (there are a few that don't GAF, and we return the sentiment), and we care about our own health and our families. My office mate (we sit 4 feet from each other every day) is still unvaccinated, but he had COVID and got through it at the beginning of this year and has some antibodies, but even he's wondering whether he's protected against the new variants coming out. We both understand that the vax doesn't mean you can't get sick nor transmit it. What we believe is that it may reduce the severity of the illness if you do get it, and that's all we can expect for now. As new variants come out, who knows.
I rely on my wife's guidance on the matter as she's got a scientific background (phd in biochemistry) and has been working/consulting in the medical field for over 20 years. She's pretty well informed (she's also the chair of some medical committees that have to make some COVID-related decisions, and is in weekly contact with doctors dealing with COVID in their ERs as well as infection diseases specialists) and understands how the vaccines work and the risks involved in taking or not taking them, and explains some of that to me in layman's terms. It may be a joke meme, but as I understand it, if a person is vaccinated, gets the virus and the viral load is reduced, the load in the breakthrough infection (to you) will be lower, essentially making your vaccination not work 'gooder', but reducing the severity of the illness for the both of you. We all do what makes us more comfortable. That's obviously going to be different depending on what we believe. Remember that I've been on this site for 15 years now, and just because I got the jab doesn't by any stretch put me suddenly on the left. This is just one issue, and for me personally, it's a health issue, not a political one. So I have to go with the science as best I (or my wife) can, that's it.
The bottom line for me is, I really don't trust what either side is saying (left or right), but go with the guidance of people i know and trust. It's really unfortunate that it's become a political mess with disinformation on either side. I think we're all frustrated with the whole thing no matter what our beliefs or political leanings are, and this frustration certainly came out in this thread.
This 'protecting the vaccinated' article is quite fitting...hard to believe this shit show is gonna keep getting more stupid.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/harris-vaccine-tweet
Pretty much a day after Joe announced the mandate we got emails stating it was mandatory abs they will figure out a way to document later. Not an issue for me as I got the jab already. Not sure why it needs to be mandatory as we are all WFH still with no plans for mass returns.
It’s going to be interesting if someone gets sick from the jab that an employer mandated. Who pays? What happens if you get Covid after the mandated jab. Are you workers compensation or just sick. Who pays fir the weekly testing? Insurance??? Those rates are going to shoot up if lots of folks opt for that route.
Taz, my understanding is the employee is required to pay for their own testing...which begs to ask, if the vaccinated can still catch & spread the virus, why aren't they being tested?? All bs.
Averageman
09-13-21, 09:56
You do understand that the odds are against you getting covid, even less for hospitalization and far, far fewer die.
We aren't fighting as vaccine anymore, we are fighting peoples paranoia and political division brought to you by China.
So have at it, but again, No Mask, No Vax, No Problems.
Yeah, unfortunately, and this is only after a couple of people at work got COVID (one got it from a family member, then the other co-worker got it from him as far as we know) and were pretty sick. This was just before the vaccines came out. Since we work in manufacturing, you can't make stuff from home, so we've all been at work through the lockdowns (unless we could do some work from home) as essential defense workers. I mentioned earlier that one of our unvaccinated techs recently died from COVID. Other co-workers have family members or people they know who have died, so these stories hit closer to home more and more.
Next year will be my 30th year at this company, and I've worked closely with many of these people for more than two decades. We have all sorts at work here - those who were first line to get the vax, and those who swore they will never get it. However, as this stuff affects us at a more personal level, it's giving us all pause to reconsider what we know, believe, or thought we knew, and we all have civil, earnest discussions about it since we do work side by side on a daily basis. We each care about each other (there are a few that don't GAF, and we return the sentiment), and we care about our own health and our families. My office mate (we sit 4 feet from each other every day) is still unvaccinated, but he had COVID and got through it at the beginning of this year and has some antibodies, but even he's wondering whether he's protected against the new variants coming out. We both understand that the vax doesn't mean you can't get sick nor transmit it. What we believe is that it may reduce the severity of the illness if you do get it, and that's all we can expect for now. As new variants come out, who knows.
I rely on my wife's guidance on the matter as she's got a scientific background (phd in biochemistry) and has been working/consulting in the medical field for over 20 years. She's pretty well informed (she's also the chair of some medical committees that have to make some COVID-related decisions, and is in weekly contact with doctors dealing with COVID in their ERs as well as infection diseases specialists) and understands how the vaccines work and the risks involved in taking or not taking them, and explains some of that to me in layman's terms. It may be a joke meme, but as I understand it, if a person is vaccinated, gets the virus and the viral load is reduced, the load in the breakthrough infection (to you) will be lower, essentially making your vaccination not work 'gooder', but reducing the severity of the illness for the both of you. We all do what makes us more comfortable. That's obviously going to be different depending on what we believe. Remember that I've been on this site for 15 years now, and just because I got the jab doesn't by any stretch put me suddenly on the left. This is just one issue, and for me personally, it's a health issue, not a political one. So I have to go with the science as best I (or my wife) can, that's it.
The bottom line for me is, I really don't trust what either side is saying (left or right), but go with the guidance of people i know and trust. It's really unfortunate that it's become a political mess with disinformation on either side. I think we're all frustrated with the whole thing no matter what our beliefs or political leanings are, and this frustration certainly came out in this thread.
I'm just trying to understand what the point of your vaccine is if it doesn't work unless I get the vaccine. The population can be 100% vaccinated and SARS-CoV2 will still be around since vaccinated people can still become infected and there are non-human reservoirs.
Your explanation is correct in the sense that there is a reduction in viral loads, but we seem to be talking about vastly diminished returns. Plus, several studies have shown that the viral load in a vaccinated person is the same as in those who are not. Plus, the vaccine just creates more chances of asymptomatic carriers making your exposure risk higher, not lower.
If you are vaccinated, to pretend like you need others to be vaccinated in order for your vaccine to work is just silly. It doesn't make your vaccination more powerful, your protection remains the same. It's like wearing body armor and being shot once instead of twice in your Lvl 4 plate. The plate is still doing it's job regardless of weather or now the guy that shot you is wearing a plate.
To force others to do something because you're afraid is the antithesis of the ideals this country was created around. Did we forget that freedom is dangerous? At what point did we become such pusillanimous wimps?
Yesterday I did a Tough Mudder in NJ. I was surrounded by countless people I have never met as well as everyone from my office. I don't think the idea of "are they vaccinated?" came into my head once while I was helping people out of a mud pit of being helped out of one myself. The best part is that I can be in a giant mud puddle with 50 people shoulder to shoulder but I had to wear a mask on a half empty airplane on my fight back from NJ to NC last night. WTF sense does that make?
The decision to get the vaccine is totally non-political to ME. If you want one, get one. There seems to be, however, only one side DEMANDING that I get one. They made it political. It was the same side which went on TV non stop in the months leading up to the election saying they don't trust the "Trump vaccine". In the words of John Rambo "They drew first blood, not me"
As for deferring to wives. Mine has been in dentistry since 2005. First as an assistant and then as a Hygienist. According to the CDC she is most at risk for the China Virus but treating people with Hep A/B/C, HIV, TB et al, according to her, COVID is the LEAST of her worries when it comes to infectious diseases. Do you care if the worker next to you has TB? I bet you never would ask.
militarymoron
09-13-21, 10:01
It’s going to be interesting if someone gets sick from the jab that an employer mandated.
Are you asking if someone gets sick FROM the jab, or gets sick DESPITE getting the jab (while your body is still developing immunity)?
Averageman
09-13-21, 10:11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IItaNVU8kMU
And as long as he keeps talkng this Unconstitutional BS, I'm not getting a vax, or wear a mask, or social distance. It's not my problem you have a mental illness that makes you paranoid.
Grow the F up.
militarymoron
09-13-21, 10:13
I'm just trying to understand what the point of your vaccine is if it doesn't work unless I get the vaccine.
If you are vaccinated, to pretend like you need others to be vaccinated in order for your vaccine to work is just silly. It doesn't make your vaccination more powerful, your protection remains the same.
Read what I wrote again - we're on the same page. I said that the chances of either of us getting severely sick is reduced if both are vaccinated vs. one of us are unvaccinated, and one gets COVID. I understand it doesn't make my vaccination more powerful, it just makes what's being transmitted between us less powerful. I can certainly get COVID even being vaccinated, and pass it along to someone unvaccinated. Hopefully what I pass along is reduced in potency.
Read what I wrote again - we're on the same page. I said that the chances of either of us getting severely sick is reduced if both are vaccinated vs. one of us are unvaccinated, and one gets COVID. I understand it doesn't make my vaccination more powerful, it just makes what's being transmitted between us less powerful. I can certainly get COVID even being vaccinated, and pass it along to someone unvaccinated. Hopefully what I pass along is reduced in potency.
I think we diverge when you expect others to be vaccinated against their will to make you feel safer.
Averageman
09-13-21, 10:21
I think we diverge when you expect others to be vaccinated against their will to make you feel safer.
Exactly...
militarymoron
09-13-21, 10:23
I think we diverge when you expect others to be vaccinated against their will to make you feel safer.
Where did I say that?
Averageman
09-13-21, 10:34
Where did I say that?
OMG ! You honestly need to go back and read a few pages of what you wrote.
Meanwhile and update on who's coming down with the virus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAZTVUwQZaE
Where did I say that?
Are you for real dude? Please tell me you're joking.
"I also don't care if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated or wear a mask unless we're forced to work in close physical proximity as it can affect my health."
Sure, you don't care, but if I have to work with you I better get jabbed! You are literarily saying that if someone has to work with you they better be vaccinated because you're afraid for your health despite being vaccinated.
Come on, man
OMG ! You honestly need to go back and read a few pages of what you wrote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilcRS5eUpwk&ab_channel=AlanReeves
Quote Originally Posted by Alex V View Post
I think we diverge when you expect others to be vaccinated against their will to make you feel safer.
Where did I say that?
here:
Quote Originally Posted by militarymoron View Post
Well, 'my body my choice' works for certain things that don't affect anyone else. Fine if you live in a vacuum. I couldn't care less if someone wants to smoke. Just not around me - I don't want to smell that crap. I also don't care if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated or wear a mask unless we're forced to work in close physical proximity as it can affect my health.
Everything after UNLESS would qualify.
Diamondback
09-13-21, 10:56
Oh how far down the rabbit hole we've come from "just two weeks to flatten the curve"... none of these things have "worked" because they were never MEANT to. It's all about how much farther they can force the door open toward unlimited power...
Remember, folks, these people see their positions as a means to jerk us around like when you have your cat chase a laser pointer. It doesn't stop until we tell them "shove it up your cornhole" en-masse and MAKE it stop.
This whole thing has been propagandized with the combined best propaganda techniques of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and all the best that decades of operant-conditioning psychology have come up with since. We're talking brainwashing on a Manchurian Candidate level, but an unprecedented scale... unfortunately, the way these conditions play out anything you do that tries to directly challenge the narrative only makes them dig in even harder. Look up "cult deprogramming"... and try to have some compassion for our friends who've fallen into the trap.
militarymoron
09-13-21, 11:08
Are you for real dude? Please tell me you're joking.
Sure, you don't care, but if I have to work with you I better get jabbed! You are literarily saying that if someone has to work with you they better be vaccinated because you're afraid for your health despite being vaccinated.
Come on, man
Nope, that's not what I was saying. Here's what I was saying:
- I don't care if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated or wear a mask
- If we have to work in close physical proximity, I DO care as it can possibly affect my health. I'm obviously not alone in this; from frequent conversations with my co-workers, and also based on our experiences.
I didn't say what I expected the solution to that was, and it definitely wasn't to have that person get jabbed against their will. If I'm the one bothered by it, it'd be on me to get re-assigned to other tasks, avoid working so closely physically, or just sucking it up and trusting that my jab will do its work (which basically describes my normal work day). While I take whatever reasonable precautions I can (nothing more than following the company COVID guidelines) I have never once, to anyone at work, implied that they should get vaccinated if they're uncomfortable doing so. We have had a lot of discussions about it, as you can imagine, and we just keep on working, while respecting each others concerns and opinions.
Next time I'll be more clear about it, since I see that statements can be extrapolated/interpreted incorrectly. That's on me to be more explicit and leave less to interpretation.
Averageman
09-13-21, 11:11
This whole thing has been propagandized with the combined best propaganda techniques of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and all the best that decades of operant-conditioning psychology have come up with since. We're talking brainwashing on a Manchurian Candidate level, but an unprecedented scale... unfortunately, the way these conditions play out anything you do that tries to directly challenge the narrative only makes them dig in even harder. Look up "cult deprogramming"... and try to have some compassion for our friends who've fallen into the trap.
Patriot act part II.
A lot of people have went quite crazy, but you have to talk to them a minute before you notice it. Then you see just how this has broken some minds.
Diamondback
09-13-21, 11:27
Patriot act part II.
A lot of people have went quite crazy, but you have to talk to them a minute before you notice it. Then you see just how this has broken some minds.
Yup, and look how many of its "temporary" measures have actually gone away--hell, we still have "states of emergency" in effect that were declared under LBJ and never resolved. Imagine what we'll see for the Threequel in 2041... seems like it's a pattern every twenty-ish years that some big Watershed either really good or really bad happens, the norm being the latter.Revolution kicked off a little early for 1781, Jeffersonian mixed-bag between westward expansion and Barbary War around 1801, Civil War in 1861, Spanish-American War pushing us into "global power" (1898, close enough to 1901), 1921 you had the original Bubble of the Roaring 20s to tee up the Depression, 1941 WWII, 1961 JFK kicks off the Space Race ('63, close enough), '81 Reagan rejects the paradigm that Soviet Evil is here forever, 2001 and '21 we all know all too well.
Diamondback
09-13-21, 11:27
doubletap
Nope, that's not what I was saying. Here's what I was saying:
- I don't care if someone doesn't want to be vaccinated or wear a mask
- If we have to work in close physical proximity, I DO care as it can possibly affect my health. I'm obviously not alone in this; from frequent conversations with my co-workers, and also based on our experiences.
I didn't say what I expected the solution to that was, and it definitely wasn't to have that person get jabbed against their will. If I'm the one bothered by it, it'd be on me to get re-assigned to other tasks, avoid working so closely physically, or just sucking it up and trusting that my jab will do its work (which basically describes my normal work day). While I take whatever reasonable precautions I can (nothing more than following the company COVID guidelines) I have never once, to anyone at work, implied that they should get vaccinated if they're uncomfortable doing so. We have had a lot of discussions about it, as you can imagine, and we just keep on working, while respecting each others concerns and opinions.
Next time I'll be more clear about it, since I see that statements can be extrapolated/interpreted incorrectly. That's on me to be more explicit and leave less to interpretation.
You said you don't care, unless. Which means you care. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is not what you meant, but it is how it came across in your post.
Even still, do you really feel that unsafe that you would ask to have your task reassigned? Maybe I am just insane in the sense that I don't care about it as shown by my example of running the Tough Mudder yesterday, but really? Like I also said before, how often have you wondered if you coworker has Hep or TB? Granted TB is not very common in the US which is why we don't even vaccinate against it on a regular basis but it has been killing people for 5,000 years. Something like 1.4M last year alone.
If someone has TB but currently has no symptoms my wife has to treat them, but if someone tested positive for COVID and has no symptoms they can't even enter her office. In what world does that make sense?
militarymoron
09-13-21, 11:53
You said you don't care, unless. Which means you care. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is not what you meant, but it is how it came across in your post.
Even still, do you really feel that unsafe that you would ask to have your task reassigned? Maybe I am just insane in the sense that I don't care about it as shown by my example of running the Tough Mudder yesterday, but really? Like I also said before, how often have you wondered if you coworker has Hep or TB? Granted TB is not very common in the US which is why we don't even vaccinate against it on a regular basis but it has been killing people for 5,000 years. Something like 1.4M last year alone.
If someone has TB but currently has no symptoms my wife has to treat them, but if someone tested positive for COVID and has no symptoms they can't even enter her office. In what world does that make sense?
Yes, of course I care about my health and my family's. There's no misinterpretation about that.
Nope, I don't feel unsafe enough to change anything I've been doing at work. Having a concern doesn't mean that it's a very strong one. I'm not saying that it's not in the back of my mind that 'you can never be too careful'. I'm still hugging people, fist bumping, shaking hands, working side by side within inches of others etc. But I wasn't doing that (and other people weren't) before the jab and when COVID started back in 2020. Everyone was trying to limit physical contact, wash their hands - whatever the company guidelines were. People are much more comfortable now that most had gotten the jab at work, enough so that we don't differentiate between unvacc'd and vacc'd people. Still comes up in conversation as people have died, as I mentioned before, and we're getting company reports of infections and contact tracing a few times a week.
No, of course we don't ask people if they're had Hep or TB, but nowadays if anyone coughs (I do when I get a dry throat), someone will always (sort of jokingly) ask 'Hey! It's not COVID is it? You sick? You vaccinated?'. Everyone will ask now, as it's the current norm and part of our daily banter. I'm sure if there was an outbreak of something else, we'd be asking about that.
My family and I go to our indoor rock climbing gym 4x a week, for about 3 hrs each time. It can be crowded, and no one knows who is and isn't vaccinated, and it's not a requirement to enter (only a mask). We constantly touching climbing holds that were touched moments before by multiple people (like dumbells in a gym). Climbing holds can't be sanitized practically. So, I'd guess that you were much safer at that Mudder than I am at the climbing gym.
Sure, we'll sometimes think about our safety (since my wife is involved in these kinds of discussions very frequently and is much more 'dialed in' to any news or developments), especially when a friend tells us 'so and so had COVID etc', but I don't feel unsafe enough (now) to isolate ourselves or change much in our daily routine. And definitely not enough to go 'Karen' on anyone about it, lol. Not that I would anyway.
You're right - a lot of stuff going on doesn't make sense. We should be used dealing with that, being gun owners.
Life's a Hillary
09-13-21, 11:59
You said you don't care, unless. Which means you care. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is not what you meant, but it is how it came across in your post.
Even still, do you really feel that unsafe that you would ask to have your task reassigned? Maybe I am just insane in the sense that I don't care about it as shown by my example of running the Tough Mudder yesterday, but really? Like I also said before, how often have you wondered if you coworker has Hep or TB? Granted TB is not very common in the US which is why we don't even vaccinate against it on a regular basis but it has been killing people for 5,000 years. Something like 1.4M last year alone.
If someone has TB but currently has no symptoms my wife has to treat them, but if someone tested positive for COVID and has no symptoms they can't even enter her office. In what world does that make sense?
You realize if someone has latent TB it isn’t contagious right? Also, if you have active TB and don’t take your medication you can be arrested and forced to take it while being isolated.
You realize if someone has latent TB it isn’t contagious right? Also, if you have active TB and don’t take your medication you can be arrested and forced to take it while being isolated.
Technically not arrested but I understand what you mean.
Someone with latent TB can develop TB disease and be out and about before being "sick enough" to be diagnosed. All while infecting others
The point was not to compare the treatment of TB to COVID. It was to show that other infectious diseases are all around us but since they are novel, and we have been living with them for decades, centuries and millennia they can't be used for political gain so we act like SARS-CoV2 is the deadliest pathogen known to man!
You realize if someone has latent TB it isn’t contagious right? Also, if you have active TB and don’t take your medication you can be arrested and forced to take it while being isolated.
Technically not arrested but I understand what you mean.
Someone with latent TB can develop TB disease and be out and about before being "sick enough" to be diagnosed. All while infecting others
The point was not to compare the treatment of TB to COVID. It was to show that other infectious diseases are all around us but since they are novel, and we have been living with them for decades, centuries and millennia they can't be used for political gain so we act like SARS-CoV2 is the deadliest pathogen known to man!
Diamondback
09-13-21, 13:07
Technically not arrested but I understand what you mean.
Someone with latent TB can develop TB disease and be out and about before being "sick enough" to be diagnosed. All while infecting others
The point was not to compare the treatment of TB to COVID. It was to show that other infectious diseases are all around us but since they are novel, and we have been living with them for decades, centuries and millennia they can't be used for political gain so we act like SARS-CoV2 is the deadliest pathogen known to man!
LaH is just a troll, bro, don't feed him.
Life's a Hillary
09-13-21, 13:39
LaH is just a troll, bro, don't feed him.
Yeah the troll is the guy posting factual information, not the guy comparing vaccine mandates to the attempted genocide of the Jews by the Nazis lol. You do know most of the states with the loudest dissenting government officials have some of the strictest preexisting vaccine mandates in the country? Hell, in Mississippi you can’t even get a religious exemption. Haven’t heard any comparisons to the gulags for that.
Yeah, unfortunately, and this is only after a couple of people at work got COVID (one got it from a family member, then the other co-worker got it from him as far as we know) and were pretty sick. This was just before the vaccines came out. Since we work in manufacturing, you can't make stuff from home, so we've all been at work through the lockdowns (unless we could do some work from home) as essential defense workers. I mentioned earlier that one of our unvaccinated techs recently died from COVID. Other co-workers have family members or people they know who have died, so these stories hit closer to home more and more.
Next year will be my 30th year at this company, and I've worked closely with many of these people for more than two decades. We have all sorts at work here - those who were first line to get the vax, and those who swore they will never get it. However, as this stuff affects us at a more personal level, it's giving us all pause to reconsider what we know, believe, or thought we knew, and we all have civil, earnest discussions about it since we do work side by side on a daily basis. We each care about each other (there are a few that don't GAF, and we return the sentiment), and we care about our own health and our families. My office mate (we sit 4 feet from each other every day) is still unvaccinated, but he had COVID and got through it at the beginning of this year and has some antibodies, but even he's wondering whether he's protected against the new variants coming out. We both understand that the vax doesn't mean you can't get sick nor transmit it. What we believe is that it may reduce the severity of the illness if you do get it, and that's all we can expect for now. As new variants come out, who knows.
I rely on my wife's guidance on the matter as she's got a scientific background (phd in biochemistry) and has been working/consulting in the medical field for over 20 years. She's pretty well informed (she's also the chair of some medical committees that have to make some COVID-related decisions, and is in weekly contact with doctors dealing with COVID in their ERs as well as infection diseases specialists) and understands how the vaccines work and the risks involved in taking or not taking them, and explains some of that to me in layman's terms. It may be a joke meme, but as I understand it, if a person is vaccinated, gets the virus and the viral load is reduced, the load in the breakthrough infection (to you) will be lower, essentially making your vaccination not work 'gooder', but reducing the severity of the illness for the both of you. We all do what makes us more comfortable. That's obviously going to be different depending on what we believe. Remember that I've been on this site for 15 years now, and just because I got the jab doesn't by any stretch put me suddenly on the left. This is just one issue, and for me personally, it's a health issue, not a political one. So I have to go with the science as best I (or my wife) can, that's it.
The bottom line for me is, I really don't trust what either side is saying (left or right), but go with the guidance of people i know and trust. It's really unfortunate that it's become a political mess with disinformation on either side. I think we're all frustrated with the whole thing no matter what our beliefs or political leanings are, and this frustration certainly came out in this thread.
You have to understand, the concept of supporting government mandates puts you on the other side. And that’s where we are at.
I’ve literally watched more people die of COVID than the majority of the people on this page having worked COVID ICU for 11 months. Yeah if sucks…
But liberty is a fragile thing. Once you lose it, you know what it takes to get it back. Once government mandates unwanted and mildly effective vaccines, what is next? Unchecked executive power cannot be allowed. The further we go down this path, we will wake up realizing with have a dictator.
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Pretty much a day after Joe announced the mandate we got emails stating it was mandatory abs they will figure out a way to document later. Not an issue for me as I got the jab already. Not sure why it needs to be mandatory as we are all WFH still with no plans for mass returns.
It’s going to be interesting if someone gets sick from the jab that an employer mandated. Who pays? What happens if you get Covid after the mandated jab. Are you workers compensation or just sick. Who pays fir the weekly testing? Insurance??? Those rates are going to shoot up if lots of folks opt for that route.
You pay. That’s who.
My supervisor has accumulated tens of thousands from his vaccine reaction. Fortunately his VA benefits cover most of the expense. If I had suffered his expense, I’d live the next several decades in poverty.
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Yeah, unfortunately, and this is only after a couple of people at work got COVID (one got it from a family member, then the other co-worker got it from him as far as we know) and were pretty sick. This was just before the vaccines came out. Since we work in manufacturing, you can't make stuff from home, so we've all been at work through the lockdowns (unless we could do some work from home) as essential defense workers. I mentioned earlier that one of our unvaccinated techs recently died from COVID. Other co-workers have family members or people they know who have died, so these stories hit closer to home more and more.
Next year will be my 30th year at this company, and I've worked closely with many of these people for more than two decades. We have all sorts at work here - those who were first line to get the vax, and those who swore they will never get it. However, as this stuff affects us at a more personal level, it's giving us all pause to reconsider what we know, believe, or thought we knew, and we all have civil, earnest discussions about it since we do work side by side on a daily basis. We each care about each other (there are a few that don't GAF, and we return the sentiment), and we care about our own health and our families. My office mate (we sit 4 feet from each other every day) is still unvaccinated, but he had COVID and got through it at the beginning of this year and has some antibodies, but even he's wondering whether he's protected against the new variants coming out. We both understand that the vax doesn't mean you can't get sick nor transmit it. What we believe is that it may reduce the severity of the illness if you do get it, and that's all we can expect for now. As new variants come out, who knows.
I rely on my wife's guidance on the matter as she's got a scientific background (phd in biochemistry) and has been working/consulting in the medical field for over 20 years. She's pretty well informed (she's also the chair of some medical committees that have to make some COVID-related decisions, and is in weekly contact with doctors dealing with COVID in their ERs as well as infection diseases specialists) and understands how the vaccines work and the risks involved in taking or not taking them, and explains some of that to me in layman's terms. It may be a joke meme, but as I understand it, if a person is vaccinated, gets the virus and the viral load is reduced, the load in the breakthrough infection (to you) will be lower, essentially making your vaccination not work 'gooder', but reducing the severity of the illness for the both of you. We all do what makes us more comfortable. That's obviously going to be different depending on what we believe. Remember that I've been on this site for 15 years now, and just because I got the jab doesn't by any stretch put me suddenly on the left. This is just one issue, and for me personally, it's a health issue, not a political one. So I have to go with the science as best I (or my wife) can, that's it.
The bottom line for me is, I really don't trust what either side is saying (left or right), but go with the guidance of people i know and trust. It's really unfortunate that it's become a political mess with disinformation on either side. I think we're all frustrated with the whole thing no matter what our beliefs or political leanings are, and this frustration certainly came out in this thread.I too work in manufacturing, on the maintenance side of things. We have been churning and burning through this whole pandemic. I know dozens who have had it with no serious problems. I know one fellow employee who got the jab and shortly after had a stroke, another bells palsy. Could be coincidence, or maybe not.
You want someone who works with you to have the jab. If you have it, you should be safe. They could just as easily be carrying a different virus that does you in.
You compare it to driving a car, but there is no comparison. Essentially you are asking me to wear my seatbelt to keep you safe. Your not asking me to stay in my lane, I am already doing that by practicing good hygien, and quarentine if I have symptoms.
It seems you have bought into the fear.
But I doubt we will see eye to eye.
I would rather die from covid, then try to coerce everyone to get a shot that they don't want.
Soli Deo Gloria
Large Medical Device company. Have not mandated it, but asked who has been vaxed or the other option was :
not vax'd or chose not to say if yes or no Vax'd. So they gave an out.
I had one surgery center request proof of Vax, so I wont be going there.
PB
gunnerblue
09-13-21, 19:13
As a federal agent, I'm apparently ordered to be vaccinated. No one has forced the issue yet, but I'll refuse anyway. I'm fine with the option of being tested on the reg as that will wreak havoc on scheduling.
As a federal agent, I'm apparently ordered to be vaccinated. No one has forced the issue yet, but I'll refuse anyway. I'm fine with the option of being tested on the reg as that will wreak havoc on scheduling.
We need more of this. Thanks Brother.
PB
gunnerblue
09-13-21, 19:38
Thank you
Rumor is (and...rumor), that if we refuse on religious or medical grounds, the govt will look to see if we've gotten any Vax in the last five years. Which, of course, is private medical info so a whole nother can o worms.
Most of my work force is in agreement with me. We'll see who's sincere when push comes to shove. For me, forced Vax is the line in the sand.
I just can't help but laugh. The hospital that told me last year that I didn't have covid (then they weren't sure but maybe, then no it was Spanish/swine flu) now says I DID have covid and wants me to participate in a study. WTF?
If they are this F'd up about whatever the hell I had, how in the hell can I expect them to be able to competently "protect" me from it?
But I am supposed to take a Vax that won't protect me from it or keep me from transmitting it to others, but may keep it from getting really bad... maybe. On the other hand there is a really tiny chance it could kill me or make me suffer long lasting debilitating effects for which neither the manufacturer, the government, nor my health insurance are required to cover. All to "protect" me from a disease that has a really tiny chance of killing me, making me very ill, or possibly causing long term debilitating effects. The treatment for which WILL be covered. Not to mention I may have already had it, and there is no evidence I could even catch it a second time. The reinfection rate for patients who suffered syptoms is miniscule even compared to the numbers of people who die from the vax.
Seriously! The only thing less likely than ever getting a strait answer about this stuff is to be struck by a meteorite that gives me super powers.
Yeah the troll is the guy posting factual information, not the guy comparing vaccine mandates to the attempted genocide of the Jews by the Nazis lol. You do know most of the states with the loudest dissenting government officials have some of the strictest preexisting vaccine mandates in the country? Hell, in Mississippi you can’t even get a religious exemption. Haven’t heard any comparisons to the gulags for that.
Because you don't NEED one.
In Mississippi if you do not care to participate in say the public school vaccine requirements you can homeschool without having to jump through any hoops at all. If you are breathing - You are allowed to homeschool your own kids. You simply fill out a form each year telling the school that you are homeschooling your kids and that is it. No crap requiring the parents to have any particular credentials, no crap requiring 'religion based instruction', no asking to see your 'lesson plans', no testing requirements...
So no, You do not have to be vaccinated, your kids do not have to be vaccinated, and not a soul is going to screw with you about it. You have the freedom to raise and teach your kids however YOU wish without gov interference.
You have less than no clue. (and are a troll)
Averageman
09-13-21, 20:09
I just can't help but laugh. The hospital that told me last year that I didn't have covid (then they weren't sure but maybe, then no it was Spanish/swine flu) now says I DID have covid and wants me to participate in a study. WTF?
If they are this F'd up about whatever the hell I had, how in the hell can I expect them to be able to competently "protect" me from it?
But I am supposed to take a Vax that won't protect me from it or keep me from transmitting it to others, but may keep it from getting really bad... maybe. On the other hand there is a really tiny chance it could kill me or make me suffer long lasting debilitating effects for which neither the manufacturer, the government, nor my health insurance are required to cover. All to "protect" me from a disease that has a really tiny chance of killing me, making me very ill, or possibly causing long term debilitating effects. The treatment for which WILL be covered. Not to mention I may have already had it, and there is no evidence I could even catch it a second time. The reinfection rate for patients who suffered syptoms is miniscule even compared to the numbers of people who die from the vax.
Seriously! The only thing less likely than ever getting a strait answer about this stuff is to be struck by a meteorite that gives me super powers.
I had a similar experiance,
I had a surgery on my GI and when I went home, my stitches "popped". I went back in and got properly sewed back up. I then was told to walk as soon as possible.
So I'm walking around the ward and on the third day someone tells me that I should stay in my room because this is a Quarantine for Covid Ward.
WTF over?
For me, forced Vax is the line in the sand.
Solid...we've averaged anywhere from 25k-45k flu cases over the last several years, accept for 2020-2021 which was less than 2k.
The fubar going on with this shit show is beyond belief...freedom can be painful & the true patriots will show themselves soon enough.
Life's a Hillary
09-14-21, 14:08
Because you don't NEED one.
In Mississippi if you do not care to participate in say the public school vaccine requirements you can homeschool without having to jump through any hoops at all. If you are breathing - You are allowed to homeschool your own kids. You simply fill out a form each year telling the school that you are homeschooling your kids and that is it. No crap requiring the parents to have any particular credentials, no crap requiring 'religion based instruction', no asking to see your 'lesson plans', no testing requirements...
So no, You do not have to be vaccinated, your kids do not have to be vaccinated, and not a soul is going to screw with you about it. You have the freedom to raise and teach your kids however YOU wish without gov interference.
You have less than no clue. (and are a troll)
Oh that’s all you have to do? Just completely home school your kids? I’m sure that’s applicable to so many households. I guess I should have clarified for the overly pedantic, that it applies to everyone who goes to either a public or a private school. Keep moving the goalposts though, I didn’t hear the outrage when the Republican led government was telling families they had to protect their kids from diphtheria or they couldn’t enter a school.
I’d love to see the level of education one provides that doesn’t want their kids to be protected from diseases like tetanus, polio, measles, mumps, etc. Sounds like they are really being put on the right path there.
I’d love to see the level of education one provides that doesn’t want their kids to be protected from diseases like tetanus, polio, measles, mumps, etc. Sounds like they are really being put on the right path there.
The difference is. Those vaccines actually work in eliminating the disease they were created to fight.
You are in fact a troll and you’re using a false equivalence here. Try again.
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Yeah...I'm due for bi-annual polio booster next month.
Good thing it's coming too or I would be in a wheel chair instead of this walker...works like a charm.
Diamondback
09-14-21, 15:34
Public service reminder...
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-W8CcC0ZLSh0/Xy6npHy69-I/AAAAAAAAAgI/xKSMXCiFKKQquX43JBFev68_RFpEE12eACNcBGAsYHQ/s1008/trolls.jpg
More like "most disastrous botched pull-out since his own conception...
Dr Strangetweet on Twitter had a doozy, which I've unrolled on Threadreader for your convenience... https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1436422990149865481.html
-------------begin copypasta, liht edit for F-bombs-------------------
I keep seeing history being rewritten so let me offer a CliffsNotes version:
We. All. F***ing. Stayed. Home.
We all masked. We were all "in this together" until the restrictions became unreasonable.
We didn't get haircuts. We missed deaths of loved ones from other diseases. We put off funerals.
We put on masks. We social distanced.
Not for 15 days. But 30 days. 45 days.
We watched as our businesses closed, our events canceled.
And then we watched Nancy Pelosi get a haircut.
And you defended her.
We watched Gavin have dinner with friends.
And you defended him.
We watched as you protested and rioted and looted and burned, all the while telling us we were horrible for being mad about the draconian measures implemented that shut down our gyms and bars and theaters.
We were "in this together" when you said you wouldn't trust a vaccine under Trump.
We were "in this together" when you acted like the experts knew what the f*** they were talking about even as they changed their position in the matter of days.
We did it your way.
It didn't work.
So take your revisionist bullshit and go hide under your bed.
[snip]
You think your patience is running out?
[snip]
Our patience ran out last year, early this year.
Welcome to the club.
THIS is GOLD. We have to remind the mandate crew every day that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris personally said they wouldn't trust the exact same vaccine they're now mandating.
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/85109921.jpg
Vaccinated people clear the viral load faster than un-vaccinated people. Clearing it faster means less viral load to spread to others. But, you have the freedom to believe whatever you want - we all do.
No one's 'forcing' them to come to work as well. They have the freedom to sit at home with their masks off and find work somewhere else where they don't have to wear masks or be vaccinated. They're not slaves. They're on an even more slippery slope than I am. I'll have a job while they won't. If you want to work in a private business, you follow their rules. Else, you can exercise your freedom to work elsewhere.
I actually think that the virus is a blessing in disguise. We have too many people on this planet, and the herd needs to be thinned.
I was going to respond to this, but then I saw all the crawfishing on subsequent pages and think I'll let it lie. :)
As a federal agent, I'm apparently ordered to be vaccinated. No one has forced the issue yet, but I'll refuse anyway. I'm fine with the option of being tested on the reg as that will wreak havoc on scheduling.
That was the initial bluff. We called them on the bluff and the testing option has been withdrawn. There was never any funding or infrastructure to support testing at every federal workplace, So now it's get jabbed or get fired.
Now they're doubling down and trying it out on employers over 100 in strength at the barrel of $14K fines by OSHA. Yeah, good luck with that Joe!
Thank you
Rumor is (and...rumor), that if we refuse on religious or medical grounds, the govt will look to see if we've gotten any Vax in the last five years. Which, of course, is private medical info so a whole nother can o worms.
Most of my work force is in agreement with me. We'll see who's sincere when push comes to shove. For me, forced Vax is the line in the sand.
If they figure out how to cross that line, I think the next logical choice is to say "OK, I'll take the vaccine, but I'm doing so under duress and I'm not signing ANYTHING. That includes your informed consent and waiver of liability. Do you still wish to proceed?" I say that because no one can be legally mandated to waive their rights under the law.
On the whole, I'd say the federal government has performed flawlessly on Covid. No one else but the federal government could do everything necessary to undermine their own intent at every turn, then portray themselves as the actual victim in this debacle. :dirol:
militarymoron
09-15-21, 10:03
I was going to respond to this, but then I saw all the crawfishing on subsequent pages and think I'll let it lie. :)
Don't hold back - I welcome different opinions as they help me understand a different point of view. I also don't mind being dogpiled on as long as I may learn something new or have my opinion changed. :) I don't learn much from people that agree with everything I say. So, this is the statement I made in an earlier post: "I actually think that the virus is a blessing in disguise. We have too many people on this planet, and the herd needs to be thinned." I'll expand on where that came from.
Ever since this whole COVID thing hit us, it's made for a lot of discussion at work. My immediate work environment has a varied mix of people - vax'd, unvax'd, religious, non-religious, union, non-union, different ethnic backgrounds and political beliefs etc, so we have a good variety of different opinions, and have mostly good discussions. One of the discussions about COVID was more from the standpoint of religion as well as environmentalism. Is is a blessing or a curse? Did it come from God or man? If it's from man, is this still part of God's plan and if so, what's the plan? Is COVID an act of God? Is this like past plagues that wiped out a bunch of people? Aren't all of God's judgements supernatural in nature, but will that always be the case? God's wiped out the population before (the Great Flood); is this a 'warning' that we're messing up? God works in mysterious ways etc. Lots of questions and speculation.
The discussion and speculations included the earth's population, and the future of humankind. So I've read both sides - that we're over populated and we're going to destroy the earth, and other articles which say that birth rates are already going down and our population will peak some decades from now anyway. I don't know what to believe. None of us could really come up with good reasons why we're better of with more people on the planet (for us, or for the planet), and it's kind of taboo to say we'd be better off with less, but most of us agreed it'd be better. Whether you see that as a curse or blessing depends in part on whether we're looking at it from a personal point of view (a curse more likely), or from a the point of view where you think that a decrease in the earth's population can be a good thing; both for the future of our species and our planet (might be a blessing in disguise from the global point of view).
Anyway, we've had good discussions at work, and it's all been food for thought that made us consider wider viewpoints outside our immediate existence.
MM...it's been said before & needs repeating that the death stats per capita have hardly moved & that includes the 2020 totals. We'll see what 2021 holds but so many non-covid deaths are being reported as such to support the narrative.
In general, we have averaged anywhere from 25-45 million flu cases for the past several years & in 2020 it was less than 2k...let that sink in. The msm is getting in peoples heads & not anything like the plague they make it out to be. People are running to the ER with headaches out of fear. If folks got on the recommended vit / therapeutic regiment & attacked early symptoms with HCQ / IVM with support of the FDA / doctors & media we would have been back to normal...but that doesn't fit into the get a jab & control they are determined to force on everyone.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/
The reason influenza cases were down last year is because the COVID measures worked much better for reducing influenza transmission than they did for COVID.
As we knew very early on, COVID attaches to much much smaller particles than influenza and can linger in the air. Meanwhile, the incubation period for COVID is 2-14 days vs 1-4 days for influenza.
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Averageman
09-15-21, 11:11
The reason influenza cases were down last year is because the COVID measures worked much better for reducing influenza transmission than they did for COVID.
As we knew very early on, COVID attaches to much much smaller particles than influenza and can linger in the air. Meanwhile, the incubation period for COVID is 2-14 days vs 1-4 days for influenza.
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I don't believe that, that's not the way the vaccine was built and it goes against the science.
I don't believe that, that's not the way the vaccine was built and it goes against the science.
WTF?
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Yeah right...a 99.999999% reduction in the flu due to covid measures. Biggest horse crap post ever. SMH??
Averageman
09-15-21, 11:30
The reason influenza cases were down last year is because the COVID measures worked much better for reducing influenza transmission than they did for COVID.
As we knew very early on, COVID attaches to much much smaller particles than influenza and can linger in the air. Meanwhile, the incubation period for COVID is 2-14 days vs 1-4 days for influenza.
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Influenza cases were down because;
A) We generally dont test for the flu, if you have the flu, you have the flu, everyone knows what it is.
B) It was a lot more profitable to build a "Flu Test Kit" right after someone said "Covid". Suddenly they were available but not very accurate. So if you had the flu, well, it looked like Covid.
C) Mentioning "Covid" makes people give up their freedoms for safety.
Influenza cases were down because;
A) We generally dont test for the flu, if you have the flu, you have the flu, everyone knows what it is.
B) It was a lot more profitable to build a "Flu Test Kit" right after someone said "Covid". Suddenly they were available but not very accurate. So if you had the flu, well, it looked like Covid.
C) Mentioning "Covid" makes people give up their freedoms for safety.
Different symptoms, and the same test we use to check for COVID also tests for influenzas and B as well as RSV.
And yes, we test for influenza almost every time somebody comes in with respiratory symptoms and is acutely ill.
What most people thinks is “just the flu” is something else entirely.
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Averageman
09-15-21, 12:15
Different symptoms, and the same test we use to check for COVID also tests for influenzas and B as well as RSV.
And yes, we test for influenza almost every time somebody comes in with respiratory symptoms and is acutely ill.
What most people thinks is “just the flu” is something else entirely.
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I dunno man, I pretty much stay home and chill when I dont feel good.
I'm not a sickly kind of person though.
I dunno man, I pretty much stay home and chill when I dont feel good.
I'm not a sickly kind of person though.
I’m the same way. But the implication is that flu is being counted as COVID and that simply isn’t true.
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Nah, I pulled my punches because I feel like you didn’t need punched by the time I read the rest of the thread. My comment was more of a light hearted jab at that point. You and I don’t always agree, but I do respect your opinion quite a bit.
I too believe the earth is overpopulated. Even if we assumed we could efficiently spread the world’s population across the entire globe, all that would do is render the entire world more uniform, to the point no place would be special or unique. In short, the overall quality of “the human experience” would be diminished.
It’s not that I don’t value human life, quite the opposite. I damned sure don’t believe we should let China release a virus on the world that substantially reduces the human population outside their borders, and not hold them accountable in some fashion. We have to remember that with their overpopulation countermeasures, losing a few million or even a few dozen million of their own people isn’t that difficult for them to accept. There’s absolutely no reason to expect the CCP would value the lives of citizens across the world more than their own Chinese citizens.
I believe the planet would benefit from fewer humans on board, but COVID has proven to be an incredibly indiscriminate delivery mechanism that benefits China just a bit too much to not be highly suspect. :(
militarymoron
09-15-21, 13:22
Nah, I pulled my punches because I feel like you didn’t need punched by the time I read the rest of the thread. My comment was more of a light hearted jab at that point. You and I don’t always agree, but I do respect your opinion quite a bit.
I respect your opinion as well, sir, and agree with what you wrote above. I appreciate your thoughtful response.
Hey all, please keep your responses respectful; there are many sides to this and different opinions. Even if we don't all agree on the issues and how to solve them, we can respect that each person has the right to their own opinion, and reasons behind them.
We're all on M4c because we all share something in common, so let's not forget that.
The reason influenza cases were down last year is because the COVID measures worked much better for reducing influenza transmission than they did for COVID.
As we knew very early on, COVID attaches to much much smaller particles than influenza and can linger in the air. Meanwhile, the incubation period for COVID is 2-14 days vs 1-4 days for influenza.
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I don't buy that for a second.
The Covid 'measures', half ass lockdowns (where darn near everyone was considered 'essential'), mask wearing and other garbage did very little if anything to stop anything.
I am of the opinion that a good many Influenza deaths that required a hospital were and still are being counted towards the Covid and that reported Influenza cases (not involving death) are also down due to many being afraid to go to a hospital due to all of the Covid doom on gloom in the media.
Heard a doctor on some program recently discussing how some cancer numbers appeared to be significantly lower last year. He explained how the drop fell a little to far below the average for it to be 'normal' and that most likely the cases just did not get discovered due to people staying away from hospitals as much as possible for that same period. Talked about the period where there was the temp ban on elective surgeries and such also keeping people away from hospitals that otherwise would have gone (and possibly had other ailments detected while they were there).
Hey all, please keep your responses respectful; there are many sides to this and different opinions. Even if we don't all agree on the issues and how to solve them, we can respect that each person has the right to their own opinion, and reasons behind them.
You got off easy thanks to being a moderator and thanks to not pissing off the other moderators.
I used to be a moderator on a pocketbike forum. Had this one other mod that drove me nuts with his idiocy and eventually I broke and banned his ass... Then changed his avatar to a that of a filipino ladyboy and started editing his recent posts to make it seem as if he was coming on to other male members. He phoned a few other mods to complain and rat me out and then they called me wanting to know how long I planned to mess with him before giving him his permissions back. They thought he was an idiot as well but were not willing to rub his nose in it like I was. :)
I don't buy that for a second.
The Covid 'measures', half ass lockdowns (where darn near everyone was considered 'essential'), mask wearing and other garbage did very little if anything to stop anything.
I am of the opinion that a good many Influenza deaths that required a hospital were and still are being counted towards the Covid and that reported Influenza cases (not involving death) are also down due to many being afraid to go to a hospital due to all of the Covid doom on gloom in the media.
Heard a doctor on some program recently discussing how some cancer numbers appeared to be significantly lower last year. He explained how the drop fell a little to far below the average for it to be 'normal' and that most likely the cases just did not get discovered due to people staying away from hospitals as much as possible for that same period. Talked about the period where there was the temp ban on elective surgeries and such also keeping people away from hospitals that otherwise would have gone (and possibly had other ailments detected while they were there).
Doesn’t matter if you believe it. It’s true. Take off the tinfoil hat.
COVID bad influenza are quite different. Their DNA cannot be confused.
Research the differences in particle size and transmission. Research the difference in clinical findings.
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Averageman
09-15-21, 19:49
I’m the same way. But the implication is that flu is being counted as COVID and that simply isn’t true.
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Let me clarify what I said;
When Covid popped we weren't testing a lot of people for the flu. Pretty much if you have the flu, you stay home and sweat it out.
When Covid became an issue, I am resonablly sure they were giving people flu tests trying to find Covid, they used the flu test, because there simply weren't Covid tests for a couple of months, I'm guess 4 before they had a validated test.
In the meantime the numbers, because of the situation were pushed toward Covid and away from flu.
Don't hold back - I welcome different opinions as they help me understand a different point of view. I also don't mind being dogpiled on as long as I may learn something new or have my opinion changed. :) I don't learn much from people that agree with everything I say. So, this is the statement I made in an earlier post: "I actually think that the virus is a blessing in disguise. We have too many people on this planet, and the herd needs to be thinned." I'll expand on where that came from.
Ever since this whole COVID thing hit us, it's made for a lot of discussion at work. My immediate work environment has a varied mix of people - vax'd, unvax'd, religious, non-religious, union, non-union, different ethnic backgrounds and political beliefs etc, so we have a good variety of different opinions, and have mostly good discussions. One of the discussions about COVID was more from the standpoint of religion as well as environmentalism. Is is a blessing or a curse? Did it come from God or man? If it's from man, is this still part of God's plan and if so, what's the plan? Is COVID an act of God? Is this like past plagues that wiped out a bunch of people? Aren't all of God's judgements supernatural in nature, but will that always be the case? God's wiped out the population before (the Great Flood); is this a 'warning' that we're messing up? God works in mysterious ways etc. Lots of questions and speculation.
The discussion and speculations included the earth's population, and the future of humankind. So I've read both sides - that we're over populated and we're going to destroy the earth, and other articles which say that birth rates are already going down and our population will peak some decades from now anyway. I don't know what to believe. None of us could really come up with good reasons why we're better of with more people on the planet (for us, or for the planet), and it's kind of taboo to say we'd be better off with less, but most of us agreed it'd be better. Whether you see that as a curse or blessing depends in part on whether we're looking at it from a personal point of view (a curse more likely), or from a the point of view where you think that a decrease in the earth's population can be a good thing; both for the future of our species and our planet (might be a blessing in disguise from the global point of view).
Anyway, we've had good discussions at work, and it's all been food for thought that made us consider wider viewpoints outside our immediate existence.
So if they are going to die, they better do it and decrease the surplus population? Where have we heard that before? I’ll put this out there for you to ponder: My 26 year old daughter, a healthy, contributing member of society has been sedated and on a ventilator with Covid for 11 days. Early on she flatlined for 2 minutes
but the doctor and nurses, God bless them, saw fit to revive her irregardless of the overpopulation of the earth. So, to loosely quote the movie again, be sure of who and where the surplus population is before making such statements. I’m out….
Let me clarify what I said;
When Covid popped we weren't testing a lot of people for the flu. Pretty much if you have the flu, you stay home and sweat it out.
When Covid became an issue, I am resonablly sure they were giving people flu tests trying to find Covid, they used the flu test, because there simply weren't Covid tests for a couple of months, I'm guess 4 before they had a validated test.
In the meantime the numbers, because of the situation were pushed toward Covid and away from flu.
When COVID became a thing, flu season was over.
The 19-20 flu cases weren’t down like the 20-21 season.
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I appreciate your input on covid but if you think the flu went from multi millions every year to 2k because of cloth masks, 6 feet & everyone quit picking their nose you lose credibility...no hospital is gonna claim the flu when they got big $$$$ for treating covid. They simply quit testing for it. Seriously, if covid measure worked, we could basically eradicate the flu & there would be no need for the flu shot...the #'s alone cannot be defended.
Doesn’t matter if you believe it. It’s true. Take off the tinfoil hat.
COVID bad influenza are quite different. Their DNA cannot be confused.
Research the differences in particle size and transmission. Research the difference in clinical findings.
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BangBang77
09-15-21, 20:49
So if they are going to die, they better do it and decrease the surplus population? Where have we heard that before? I’ll put this out there for you to ponder: My 26 year old daughter, a healthy, contributing member of society has been sedated and on a ventilator with Covid for 11 days. Early on she flatlined for 2 minutes
but the doctor and nurses, God bless them, saw fit to revive her irregardless of the overpopulation of the earth. So, to loosely quote the movie again, be sure of who and where the surplus population is before making such statements. I’m out….
Sorry to hear about your daughter man. I will add her and your family to our prayer list.
I appreciate your input on covid but if you think the flu went from multi millions every year to 2k because of cloth masks, 6 feet & everyone quit picking their nose you lose credibility...no hospital is gonna claim the flu when they got big $$$$ for treating covid. They simply quit testing for it. Seriously, if covid measure worked, we could basically eradicate the flu & there would be no need for the flu shot...the #'s alone cannot be defended.
Credibility? You’re out of your lane.
Have you ever treated influenza? Have you treated COVID?
They have different DNA and different clinical presentation. You don’t know what you don’t know. It’s showing. Take off your tinfoil hat.
Hospitals get paid for service. There is no magical premium for treating COVID.
Physicians can go to prison for fraud for what you’re describing. Don’t be so obtuse.
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So if they are going to die, they better do it and decrease the surplus population? Where have we heard that before? I’ll put this out there for you to ponder: My 26 year old daughter, a healthy, contributing member of society has been sedated and on a ventilator with Covid for 11 days. Early on she flatlined for 2 minutes
but the doctor and nurses, God bless them, saw fit to revive her irregardless of the overpopulation of the earth. So, to loosely quote the movie again, be sure of who and where the surplus population is before making such statements. I’m out….
Prayers to you and your family. If anything, I’ve learned how different we really are. People I’ve previously thought to be good people, I’ve realized are selfish narcissists through this whole thing. Don’t let them get you down. Good luck!
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Yeah, sorry...25-45 million cases per year down to 2k seems legit for social distancing measures. You are in the medical field, so strike it up as a win & don't strain yourself with the pat on the back. If you will not admit that there was not a monetary incentive for treating covid patients & hospital admin didn't have influence on Dr's directives during the pandemic, then we are not even on the same planet. Don't be so naive simply because you are in the field...there are dr's on record refusing to treat the unvaccinated that should be going prison.
I'll take the dirt road of common sense & politically motivated reasons for the flu numbers are bullshit lane...carry on.
Credibility? You’re out of your lane.
Have you ever treated influenza? Have you treated COVID?
They have different DNA and different clinical presentation. You don’t know what you don’t know. It’s showing. Take off your tinfoil hat.
Hospitals get paid for service. There is no magical premium for treating COVID.
Physicians can go to prison for fraud for what you’re describing. Don’t be so obtuse.
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Yeah, sorry...25-45 million cases per year down to 2k seems legit for social distancing measures. You are in the medical field, so strike it up as a win & don't strain yourself with the pat on the back. If you will not admit that there was not a monetary incentive for treating covid patients & hospital admin didn't have influence on Dr's directives during the pandemic, then we are not even on the same planet. Don't be so naive simply because you are in the field...there are dr's on record refusing to treat the unvaccinated that should be going prison.
I'll take the dirt road of common sense & politically motivated reasons for the flu numbers are bullshit lane...carry on.
Yeah I’m just there doing it every day, but you know more about it. You’re out of your lane.
Your conspiracy theory is foolish.
Go kick that dirt, while you’re at it.
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militarymoron
09-15-21, 22:24
So if they are going to die, they better do it and decrease the surplus population? Where have we heard that before? I’ll put this out there for you to ponder: My 26 year old daughter, a healthy, contributing member of society has been sedated and on a ventilator with Covid for 11 days. Early on she flatlined for 2 minutes
but the doctor and nurses, God bless them, saw fit to revive her irregardless of the overpopulation of the earth. So, to loosely quote the movie again, be sure of who and where the surplus population is before making such statements. I’m out….
Prayers out for your daughter - sincerely. COVID doesn't discriminate, so it's not up to us to pick 'who' or 'where'. It's up to God to make that decision.
Please tell me where the cold / flu particle size compares on this chart & how masks are so much more effective vs covid that skates through...I'll wait.
25-45 million cases vs 2k due to the awesome & effective covid measures...smh. Don't even need a drivers permit to debunk. The fact you really think the flu was basically removed from the planet due to social distancing & masks is mind boggling.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-relative-size-of-particles/
Yeah I’m just there doing it every day, but you know more about it. You’re out of your lane.
Your conspiracy theory is foolish.
Go kick that dirt, while you’re at it.
Please tell me where the cold / flu particle size compares on this chart & how masks are so much more effective vs covid that skates through...I'll wait.
25-45 million cases vs 2k due to the awesome & effective covid measures...smh. Don't even need a drivers permit to debunk. The fact you really think the flu was basically removed from the planet due to social distancing & masks is mind boggling.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-relative-size-of-particles/
You sure like putting words in people’s mouth don’t you?
I never mentioned masks.
I never called measured “awesome”.
I never said flu was removed from the planet.
If you can’t actually address what is said, then do not comment.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-flu-season-2020-2021.htm
I know you think there was a grand conspiracy or something retarded but you’ve got no clue. Do you even know how it is tested? Do you actually think the number of tests is being a lie!?
F’ off, tinfoil.
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Went back & read everything again...I wanna see proof how your stated covid measures eradicated the flu from millions to 2k cases (basically eradicated). You can't do it...it's mathematically impossible for it to be anywhere near factual & you know it. If you are wanting to talk numbers of cutting cases in even half then I'll recant, but you haven't mentioned anything to the contrary other than the numbers are lower & not disputed the ridiculous 2k cases mentioned. You specifically mention particle size in post 186 but are now dodging my previous question as it is related to masks / covid measures. Post 189 says covid killed the flu season...please post links to how this is factual.
Moderna is coming out with a combo covid / flu jab...I'm sure it will be the magic bullet to eradicate it once & for all. Ya know, the flu jab that has worked so well for decades when all we really needed were dumb dumb covid measures all these years.
There is nothing tinfoil about what I'm saying...the flu / common cold hasn't / isn't going anywhere. It is simply being ignored & you are heading into oncoming traffic.
Went back & read everything again...I wanna see proof how your stated covid measures eradicated the flu from millions to 2k cases (basically eradicated). You can't do it...it's mathematically impossible for it to be anywhere near factual & you know it. If you are wanting to talk numbers of cutting cases in even half then I'll recant, but you haven't mentioned anything to the contrary other than the numbers are lower & not disputed the ridiculous 2k cases mentioned. You specifically mention particle size in post 186 but are now dodging my previous question as it is related to masks / covid measures. Post 189 says covid killed the flu season...please post links to how this is factual.
Moderna is coming out with a combo covid / flu jab...I'm sure it will be the magic bullet to eradicate it once & for all. Ya know, the flu jab that has worked so well for decades when all we really needed were dumb dumb covid measures all these years.
There is nothing tinfoil about what I'm saying...the flu / common cold hasn't / isn't going anywhere. It is simply being ignored & you are heading into oncoming traffic.
Aww, aren’t you special. You want to see proof? You want me to gather the 900,000 influenza tests conducted in the 2020-2021 season (plus countless cephid combination tests) for you and post them for you? How precious! You think you’re important and that your demands matter! You’re a lot like those BLM and ANTIFA types! It wouldn’t matter what proof you were given, you’d cry, call it fake, and keep repeating the same conspiracy theory.
As I said before, you don’t even understand how testing is done and how difficult it would be to confuse COVID and influenza clinically. You actually believe that approximately 1.5 million healthcare workers are in on some sort of conspiracy to fake tests. To what end?
At this point, I’m about to write you off. You don’t care about truth, logic, or common sense. You keep repeating the same bullshit.
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Different symptoms, and the same test we use to check for COVID also tests for influenzas and B as well as RSV.
And yes, we test for influenza almost every time somebody comes in with respiratory symptoms and is acutely ill.
What most people thinks is “just the flu” is something else entirely.
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Funny story
When this whole thing was just popping off our daughter brought the woo flu home.
A kid in her class traveled to China with her family to visit family. Upon returning she was under the weather but her parents sent her to school anyway. This kid proceeded to infect about 70% of the class. Kids brought it home to their families. Most of the kids - mine included - has mild symptoms and were back up and doing their thang after a couple days. The parents - myself included - were wiped out.
So I had all the symptoms. Headache, body aches, extreme shortness of breath, fever, etc. So on day five or six of this, I finally went to the Drs. I had a fever of 104, a heart rate of like 120 bpm, struggling for a breath. I was in bad shape.
Now i’m getting to your post. Dr. ask if I’ve traveled to Asia, I say no. Dr. says there is a new virus going around but if you’ve not been out of the country it’s most likely the flu and left it at that. Gave me steroids and sent me home. Basically at that time this wasn’t wide spread yet (late February) so the assumption was must be the flu.
Did we have the woo flu? I think so, especially since I felt like I was breathing through glass for a couple months after my symptoms went away. So i’m not in the medical field, but I can see how during the height of it in 2020 the above logic of “must be the flu” was reversed and all respiratory cases were considered covid.
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Hospitals are incentivized to call cases Covid. $50K per case they wouldn't get otherwise. Lots of people getting rich off this fiasco.
Looks like the start at is broken. Skip to the 4:00 mark.
https://youtu.be/_IS9V2iSA9g?t=257
Funny story
When this whole thing was just popping off our daughter brought the woo flu home.
A kid in her class traveled to China with her family to visit family. Upon returning she was under the weather but her parents sent her to school anyway. This kid proceeded to infect about 70% of the class. Kids brought it home to their families. Most of the kids - mine included - has mild symptoms and were back up and doing their thang after a couple days. The parents - myself included - were wiped out.
So I had all the symptoms. Headache, body aches, extreme shortness of breath, fever, etc. So on day five or six of this, I finally went to the Drs. I had a fever of 104, a heart rate of like 120 bpm, struggling for a breath. I was in bad shape.
Now i’m getting to your post. Dr. ask if I’ve traveled to Asia, I say no. Dr. says there is a new virus going around but if you’ve not been out of the country it’s most likely the flu and left it at that. Gave me steroids and sent me home. Basically at that time this wasn’t wide spread yet (late February) so the assumption was must be the flu.
Did we have the woo flu? I think so, especially since I felt like I was breathing through glass for a couple months after my symptoms went away. So i’m not in the medical field, but I can see how during the height of it in 2020 the above logic of “must be the flu” was reversed and all respiratory cases were considered covid.
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Heh you were being counted as “flu” without being tested.
They did do “probable” COVID early on if all symptoms were present. That was actually when numbers were low. We didn’t have any available tests for several weeks. By June, every patient that walked through the door for a COVID test and every time a patient was transferred units, they got another COVID test. Most places in the US didn’t peak until we were ramped up on testing supplies.
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Hospitals are incentivized to call cases Covid. $50K per case they wouldn't get otherwise. Lots of people getting rich off this fiasco.
Looks like the start at is broken. Skip to the 4:00 mark.
https://youtu.be/_IS9V2iSA9g?t=257
Just as that idiot from Oklahoma can get on television and lie, so can this guy.
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Averageman
09-16-21, 10:36
Something to ponder;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG-DfueY0bw
Diamondback
09-16-21, 11:23
And it looks like Shitzizpantz is intent on going into FAFO territory and killing people via withholding treatments just to "Own The Deplorables"...
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2021/09/16/the-agenda-of-cruelty-is-clear-biden-admin-reportedly-withholding-potentially-lifesaving-monoclonal-antibody-treatments-from-red-states/
"The Biden administration is imposing new limits on states’ ability to access to Covid-19 antibody treatments amid rising demand from GOP governors who have relied on the drug as a primary weapon against the virus.
Federal health officials plan to allocate specific amounts to each state under the new approach, in an effort to more evenly distribute the 150,000 doses that the government makes available each week.
The approach is likely to cut into shipments to GOP-led states in the Southeast that have made the pricey antibody drug a central part of their pandemic strategy, while simultaneously spurning mask mandates and other restrictions. That threatens to heighten tensions between the Biden administration and governors like Florida’s Ron DeSantis, who have emerged as vocal opponents of the federal Covid-19 response."
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/14/biden-covid-antibody-treatments-511825
This sick freak can't be 25'ed soon enough. Granted, not like Willie Brown's sausagesocket is gonna be any better, but...
Something to ponder;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG-DfueY0bw
I'd love to believe this, but I seriously know more fat people that kicked COVID easily than I know skinny people. The only people I personally know that had huge issues with COVID were in shape; like run and work out every day in shape. The toughest guy I know is going on week three of COVID kicking his ass. His wife, who's overweight, kicked it in under a week. As for actual deaths from COVID, two of the three were in shape non-obese, but over 70. The third fought obesity every day I knew him for 40 years, but was one of those bull strong big dudes that worked hard every day, but he was also in his 70's.
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