AA2520 or IMR4064 for. 30-06 M1 Garand?

[Exiledviking]

Going to start reloading for my .30-06 Springfield M1 Garand.
Got a hold of 350+ Hornady 150 gr SST bullets, once fired commercial brass, Winchester LRPs, and an option to buy either AA2520 or IMR4064 powder. One powder better than the other using the above components?
I'd appreciate your thoughts.

[gunnerblue]

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/m1-garand-handloads

M1's in original condition are very burn-rate specific. If you read the article that I linked, you'll see mentioned that aftermarket plugs are available to fire modern/hotter ammo.

[TomMcC]

Both those powders are a little fast to be optimum for 30-06, but if that's all you can get, I'd say they are both pretty close on the burn chart with 2520 being a bit slower. 2520 will flow out of a powder thrower better, but the IMR might give a better case fill (load density) since it is bulkier. I've used AA2230, 2460, and 2520 for .223, liking 2230 the best, I've used IMR's in my 7mm RM and am using IMR7828 presently. If it were me I would use the IMR4064 for better case density.

After reading the Handloader magazine article above, it looks like either power world work well for the gas system on a M1. I was thinking more along the lines of optimizing the velocity in a bolt action. Slower powders generally giving better velocities. I would still use the 4064 for a better fill.

[HKGuns]

I use 4895 for anything being shot out of my Garands. However, I don't hand load much for them as I still have a case or two of CMP ammo. My Garands get fondled frequently, shot infrequently.

[kerplode]

AA2520 and IMR4064 are both reasonable choices, as are the 4895s. Any of them should give you good performance in the Garand without stressing the gas system.

2520, being a ball powder, might benefit from a mil or mag primer for more consistent ignition. It will probably also show more temperature variation than the stick powders, but it measures nicely.

[Exiledviking]

AA2520 and IMR4064 are both reasonable choices, as are the 4895s. Any of them should give you good performance in the Garand without stressing the gas system.

2520, being a ball powder, might benefit from a mil or mag primer for more consistent ignition. It will probably also show more temperature variation than the stick powders, but it measures nicely.Thank you.
My understanding is that the Winchester LRPs are on the hot side and close to being the same as magnum primers?

[kerplode]

I think you should absolutely give them a try! Win LRP is a good primer and there's a decent chance it'll be fine with 2520 unless you're in really cold temps or something.

Load some, shoot them, and see what you see. If you notice a big spread in your velocities in a session, or if you get a few rounds into a nice group but have a couple of uncalled flyers, then go back and try a mag primer (if you can get ahold of some) and see if things tighten up.

But if they shoot consistently, then rock on

[kerplode]

Whatever primer you land on, though, be ABSOLUTELY sure that they are all seated slightly below flush. This is critically important to prevent slam-fires and OOB discharges in the Garand.

Run your finger over the back of every case after you prime it...If you feel any primers sticking up, even a little bit, fix them immediately.

[T2C]

IMR 4895 is good powder for bullets between 147g and 155g. For bullets above 155g, IMR 4064 is good powder. Steer clear of soft primers.

Hornady Reloading Manuals published over the past 10-15 years should have a service rifle load section. Service rifle load data should be safe for your op rod.

I installed a Garand Gear gas plug in my 30-06 M1 Garand for a little extra insurance in protecting the op rod and receiver bridge. http://www.garandgear.com/ported-gas-plug.html

[T2C]

One recommendation for a M1 Garand owner, buy a good gas cylinder wrench.

[m1a_scoutguy]

AA2520 and IMR4064 are both reasonable choices, as are the 4895s. Any of them should give you good performance in the Garand without stressing the gas system.

2520, being a ball powder, might benefit from a mil or mag primer for more consistent ignition. It will probably also show more temperature variation than the stick powders, but it measures nicely.


I think you should absolutely give them a try! Win LRP is a good primer and there's a decent chance it'll be fine with 2520 unless you're in really cold temps or something.

Load some, shoot them, and see what you see. If you notice a big spread in your velocities in a session, or if you get a few rounds into a nice group but have a couple of uncalled flyers, then go back and try a mag primer (if you can get ahold of some) and see if things tighten up.

But if they shoot consistently, then rock on

I have used both with success. For blamo ammo 2520 is good and accurate enough, just remember a basic/stock M1 is 3MOA or less depending on how it's stocked/setup. IMR4064 is a great 06/M1 powder also & I have loaded many rds using 150FMJ/155Nosler Match/168 Sierra/Nosler etc with great results. I pretty much use Winchester LRP in my M1s & even my 30/06 Precision rifle and I have had good results & they shoot on par with CCI BR/Federal Gold NM & CCI 34 Military primers out of my rifles, YMMV. If you're switching up ammo and loading many different bullets & powders then the adjustable gas plug is a viable addition, I'm pretty consistent in bullet weights and powder I use so I don't mess with them myself. Powders are tough to find now a day so use what ya got, I guess. I ended up scoring a fair amount of H4895 & I love it, I think it's the closest if not the original canister style/type powder that the Military used in 06 loads back in the day. IMR4895 is a good choice also and works great in 308. Let us know how ya make out & what ya end up coming up with.

[Exiledviking]

Whatever primer you land on, though, be ABSOLUTELY sure that they are all seated slightly below flush. This is critically important to prevent slam-fires and OOB discharges in the Garand.

Run your finger over the back of every case after you prime it...If you feel any primers sticking up, even a little bit, fix them immediately.

I'm limited to Winchester LRPs due to today's climate.
I was taught to check each primer to make sure it's below flush and I'll continue to do so. Thank you.

[Exiledviking]

Looks like I'm going with the AA2520 as my friend who helps me with reloading .30-06 has an extensive history with AA2520 in a Garand. And to load the brass and bullets I have, I'll need close to 4 lbs. My buddy says he can use some of it too.
I'm not going to be competing with it, it's just for fun so I won't be chasing the best powder/primers/bullets/groups.
In light of how things are, I'm happy to have found these components.

I appreciate all of your responses. I'll report back once I've done some shooting.

[m1a_scoutguy]

Looks like I'm going with the AA2520 as my friend who helps me with reloading .30-06 has an extensive history with AA2520 in a Garand. And to load the brass and bullets I have, I'll need close to 4 lbs. My buddy says he can use some of it too.
I'm not going to be competing with it, it's just for fun so I won't be chasing the best powder/primers/bullets/groups.
In light of how things are, I'm happy to have found these components.

I appreciate all of your responses. I'll report back once I've done some shooting.

You will do well with 2520, it is fine for what you're doing plus it does load easy being a ball powder. There is a reason it was/is called Camp Perry powder; it was very popular with Service Rifle shooters. With everything else that's been suggested, if you don't have one yet I would suggest a Wilson case gauge, it helps you set up your sizing die for just the correct shoulder setback and checks the overall length so you can see if the case needs trimming. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016251573?pid=685086 Important for M1s and any Service rifle. Have fun and let's see some pic's when you are all done! :)

[jsbhike]

Hornady has a downloadable manual where you pick up specific cartridge data for a buck or 2 each. One they have listed specifically is M1 Garand so that may be worth your time to download.

I don't have the Accurate PDF in front of me, but fairly sure they do a similar load data set.


Knew I had seen another M1 specific data set and it is Hodgdon. Hope some of this helps you track down an available combination.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

[HKGuns]

I'm looking at the 11th edition of the Hornady online application right now. For M1 Garand the powders listed for 150 grain bullets are as follows: H335 - A2495 - A2550 - V N135 - Varget - H4895.

H335 and V N135 appear to give you the highest velocities.

Obviously this is only one manual from one bullet provider and there are other viable options.

4064 doesn't appear until 168gr bullets are used.

[Exiledviking]

You will do well with 2520, it is fine for what you're doing plus it does load easy being a ball powder. There is a reason it was/is called Camp Perry powder; it was very popular with Service Rifle shooters. With everything else that's been suggested, if you don't have one yet I would suggest a Wilson case gauge, it helps you set up your sizing die for just the correct shoulder setback and checks the overall length so you can see if the case needs trimming. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016251573?pid=685086 Important for M1s and any Service rifle. Have fun and let's see some pic's when you are all done! :)I appreciate that advice. After reading the service rifle section in the Sierra reloading book, I bought a RCBS Precision Mic https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/measuring/precision-mic/564.html to measure the headspace. That section was very informative. I plan on reading it again.

[Exiledviking]

Hornady has a downloadable manual where you pick up specific cartridge data for a buck or 2 each. One they have listed specifically is M1 Garand so that may be worth your time to download.

I don't have the Accurate PDF in front of me, but fairly sure they do a similar load data set.


Knew I had seen another M1 specific data set and it is Hodgdon. Hope some of this helps you track down an available combination.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

Thank you. I emailed Accurate about Garand specific loads for the AA2520, and they promptly replied with the Hornady load data. They said that they plan on doing their own testing for the Garand.
Hodgdon does have a pdf available in their Reference Data under the Resources section with loads for the M1 Garand. https://hodgdon.com/resources/data-sheets/?_ga=2.17400957.596173915.1631724296-1833437275.1631571378

[Exiledviking]

I'm looking at the 11th edition of the Hornady online application right now. For M1 Garand the powders listed for 150 grain bullets are as follows: H335 - A2495 - A2550 - V N135 - Varget - H4895.

H335 and V N135 appear to give you the highest velocities.

Obviously this is only one manual from one bullet provider and there are other viable options.

4064 doesn't appear until 168gr bullets are used.

Thank you. My friend has one of the recent Hornady books and he says it has a Garand section so we'll take a good look at that.

[kerplode]

I just noticed that there is one lot # of A2520 that is under recall. Info here (http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/We-will-provide-instructions-on-powder-disposal-and-issue-a-refund-check-to-impacted-customers..jpg).

Please check your stock before proceeding. :-)

[Exiledviking]

I just noticed that there is one lot # of A2520 that is under recall. Info here (http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/We-will-provide-instructions-on-powder-disposal-and-issue-a-refund-check-to-impacted-customers..jpg).

Please check your stock before proceeding. :-)I saw that the other night. Thankfully it only applies to 1 lb canisters. I'm picking up a 8 lbs jug. Thank you.

[m1a_scoutguy]

I appreciate that advice. After reading the service rifle section in the Sierra reloading book, I bought an RCBS Precision Mic https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/measuring/precision-mic/564.html to measure the headspace. That section was very informative. I plan on reading it again.

Yes, the Sierra manual has good info, I have that manual & as stated the Hornady has a Service rifle section also but use what ya have, it's all good. Here is some info I printed off years ago from the CMP Forum and keep tucked in the pages of my reloading books, good stuff & will be useful when & if times return to normal & you have access to more choices. The RCBS Mic will work well also.

Recommended .30 caliber M1 loadings from the NRA

147 - 155 grain FMJ or HPBT bullets
IMR 3031 - 48.0 grains
IMR 4895 - 49.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 50.0 grains
W748 - 48.0 grains
AA2460 - 49.0 grains
AA2520 - 51.0 grains
AA2495 - 50.5 grains
H4895 - 49.0 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 49.0 grains
RL-12 - 48.0 grains


165/168 grain FMJ, HP or SP bullets
IMR 4895 - 47.0 grains
IMR 4094 - 48.0 grains
AA2520 - 47.5 grains
AA2495 - 47.0 grains
H4895 - 47.5 grains
BLC-2 - 49.0 grains
H335 - 47.0 grains
RL-12 - 44.5 grains


173/175-grain FMJ or HPBT bullets

IMR 4895 - 46.0 grains
IMR 4064 - 47.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.0 grains
AA2495 - 46.0 grains
H4895 - 47.0 grains
BLC-2 - 48.0 grains

180-grain FMJ, SP, or HPBT bullets
IMR 4895 - 43.0 grains
AA2460 - 46.5 grains
AA2495 - 45.5 grains
H4895 - 44.0 grains
BLC-2 - 47.5 grains
RL-12 - 41.5 grains
Cases:
*The loads listed above use commercial cases* WW seems to be the best case.

Primers:
I also recommend the use of WW large rifle primers due to the fact that they are almost as hard as mil-spec. The CCI #34 is a mil-spec primer but, it's a MAG primer as well and should be used with ball powder. Federal Gold Medal Match primers are very good primers but, some say they are very soft and should not be used in a "M" gun due to the fact of SLAM FIRES!

Powders:
As far as powders go IMR 4895 and IMR 4064 are great powders to use with the M1 in .30 cal. Some use Varget and VV140 but, your results may vary. A word to the wise: The old rule of thumb on powder is nothing faster than 4895 and nothing slower than 4064. Good words to load by.


Bullets: The 168 Sierra Match King and the 175 Sierra Match King are the two bullets I would look to if I was looking to make "Match" ammo for a 1-10 twist GI rifle. The 168 is a 300-meter bullet with an older designed boat tail. It still works great but, the 175 MK is the way to fly. The BC is something like 19% better and that translates to less knob twisting at 600 yards or so. The 175 Mk is basically a redesigned 173 gr GI match bullet built to stabilize in a 1-12 twist barrel. I would not shoot bullets any heavier than a 175gr in a GI gun that I really cared about. People used to shoot the 180 gr MK but, that's before the 175mk came out.


Match Loads:
The old standard "M72" LC match ammo shoots pretty good in GI rifles and Federal Gold Medal Match shoots really good in some rifles but if you want to come up with a load that shoots like a house afire try these out for size. * I cannot profess to be the guy who came up with these super duty match loads. The M1 has been around a long time now and there really is nothing new as far as loads go. Sure, the VLD bullets and new designer powders have come out and made things better? Right?.......Right. For my money, these will work all day every day. *

175gr MK
WW large Pri
WW case
47gr 4064
3.340 OaL MAX

168 MK
WW Large Pri
WW case
48 4064
3.340 OAL MAX

4895 works just as well in these loads just adjust the charge per the chart above. H4895 never hurt a thing either.

_________________

[Exiledviking]

M1AScoutguy, thanks for that excellent information. I've ordered Hatcher's Garand book.

I've read some posts saying that using a chamber brush after each range session is necessary. Is that really the case? If so, I'll add it to my order of Orion 7 operating rod spring, clip latch spring, and some enbloc clips.

[m1a_scoutguy]

M1AScoutguy, thanks for that excellent information. I've ordered Hatcher's Garand book.

I've read some posts saying that using a chamber brush after each range session is necessary. Is that really the case? If so, I'll add it to my order of Orion 7 operating rod spring, clip latch spring, and some en-bloc clips.

LOL, I'm the wrong guy to ask about cleaning my rifle after every range session! :p I'll say it probably won't hurt but really, on a serious note, I'll say do as you feel necessary? Now if the rifle is gonna sit or be put away depending on your environment, hot/dry/humid, etc, then yea. Anyways I say yes to having a few chamber brushes on hand for sure, they do a nice job when needed. I have bought from Orion years ago, a good outfit, I have also bought from these guys and they are equally good with zero issues, look compare and go from there. https://ammogarand.com/m1garandoprods.html Good thing about Ammogarand is they tell you if its GI or New Manufacture replacement part, I'm sure Orion does the same but I have not been on his website recently so like I say check them both out. I will say when I do clean my rifles, I just use Hoppes 9 nothing fancy, works good for me, make sure you get a coated rod, more M1s have been ruined with those dam steel cleaning rods than I can imagine. Turn the rifle over so the cleaning solvent doesn't get into the gas cylinder and you'll be good, keep it lubed up and blast away! Have fun and keep us posted on how it all goes.

[Exiledviking]

LOL, I'm the wrong guy to ask about cleaning my rifle after every range session! [emoji14] I'll say it probably won't hurt but really, on a serious note, I'll say do as you feel necessary? Now if the rifle is gonna sit or be put away depending on your environment, hot/dry/humid, etc, then yea. Anyways I say yes to having a few chamber brushes on hand for sure, they do a nice job when needed. I have bought from Orion years ago, a good outfit, I have also bought from these guys and they are equally good with zero issues, look compare and go from there. https://ammogarand.com/m1garandoprods.html Good thing about Ammogarand is they tell you if its GI or New Manufacture replacement part, I'm sure Orion does the same but I have not been on his website recently so like I say check them both out. I will say when I do clean my rifles, I just use Hoppes 9 nothing fancy, works good for me, make sure you get a coated rod, more M1s have been ruined with those dam steel cleaning rods than I can imagine. Turn the rifle over so the cleaning solvent doesn't get into the gas cylinder and you'll be good, keep it lubed up and blast away! Have fun and keep us posted on how it all goes.Great info, thanks!

[HKGuns]

M1AScoutguy, thanks for that excellent information. I've ordered Hatcher's Garand book.

I've read some posts saying that using a chamber brush after each range session is necessary. Is that really the case? If so, I'll add it to my order of Orion 7 operating rod spring, clip latch spring, and some enbloc clips.

It is a rifle, do as you would any other rifle. There is nothing special about the Garand that requires any different level of care than you would other rifles.

I clean all of my rifles when I return from the range. Not because they need it, because I enjoy keeping them clean. I don't put dirty rifles into my safes.

[Exiledviking]

It is a rifle, do as you would any other rifle. There is nothing special about the Garand that requires any different level of care than you would other rifles.

I clean all of my rifles when I return from the range. Not because they need it, because I enjoy keeping them clean. I don't put dirty rifles into my safes.Thank you.

[Exiledviking]

Anyone buy a Field Grade Garand from the CMP recently? I'm thinking about buying another Garand and the Field Grade looks like a good deal for a fun range gun. Not shooting competition.
When researching for parts to keep on hand I found that many people offered the very helpful advice; buy a spare Garand. Sounds just like the advice I've gotten here on M4C for close to a decade now. Ha ha.

[m1a_scoutguy]

Anyone buy a Field Grade Garand from the CMP recently? I'm thinking about buying another Garand and the Field Grade looks like a good deal for a fun range gun. Not shooting competition.
When researching for parts to keep on hand I found that many people offered the very helpful advice; buy a spare Garand. Sounds just like the advice I've gotten here on M4C for close to a decade now. Ha ha.

I will never tell someone NOT to buy another M1,(I have 6 ;)) so yes get one ! BUT my problem is I have enough spare parts to reapir all of them for years to come. Best recommendation I would say is have plenty of Enblocks,a few extra spring SETs, extra bolt guts+2 & just keep tab's on your Op-Rod Tab,LOL There are probably a couple other parts & pieces you could/should have but those are the main ones. They can be pricey but its nice having the gauges for muzzle & chamber wear,but if you know what those are when you start your gonna have to shoot A LOT and get her hot multiple times through many many rds before you will ever have to be concerend. More M1s are always a good thing,LOL

[Exiledviking]

... just keep tab's on your Op-Rod Tab,LOL.

I appreciate the info. I've already ordered more enbloc clips (25 per rifle should suffice, right?), a spring set, and an extra op rod spring from Orion 7. Gonna have to take a look at the bolt parts and springs. I have a firing pin and extractor in the cart already.

$650 for the Field Grade seems like a decent price for a shooter? Hopefully some Service Grade Garands show up in the next 6 -12 months.

[m1a_scoutguy]

I appreciate the info. I've already ordered more enbloc clips (25 per rifle should suffice, right?), a spring set, and an extra op rod spring from Orion 7. Gonna have to take a look at the bolt parts and springs. I have a firing pin and extractor in the cart already.

$650 for the Field Grade seems like a decent price for a shooter? Hopefully, some Service Grade Garands show up in the next 6 -12 months.

Yea 25 enblocs is good, after all ya pic them up 99.9% of the time anyway so you should be good with that. Having an op-rod spring is good for sure,I forget is this a CMP rifle, one you have had for a while, or did you pick it up local? If it's a CMP then the spring should almost be new or like new and in spec & they last a long time, the Orion one will serve you well if needed. Having the extra bolt parts is nice but again these rifles last and were designed well but just like for your AR rifles, having extra parts is reassuring to say the least, no matter what role the rifle plays, nobody wants a broken rifle and wants to wait for spare parts to show up,LOL ! Yea CMP is hit or miss for sure, I think they still have a decent amount of rifles but they just need to go through them bring them into spec and make them ready for sale. Unfortunately, CMP could be in the same dilemma that everyone else is, no one whats to work and they all just want to sit home! :rolleyes: Keep me posted, sounds like it's coming together nicely!

[derek45]

good old NRA data

https://i.imgur.com/PXxLwZw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jI7KUie.jpg

[Exiledviking]

good old NRA data

https://i.imgur.com/PXxLwZw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jI7KUie.jpgGreat picture! Thanks for that info. Should probably back off 10% from that data and work up a little.

[T2C]

The John C. Garand Match is a lot of fun and low key at most gun clubs. I shot in a match at my gun club yesterday and it was great to see that many Garand shooters in one place. If you can find a match local to you, I think it's worth looking into. I think it's more fun than shooting a regular High Power Rifle Match.

[Exiledviking]

I'll check into the John C. Garand match. Thank you.

Loaded up some 150 gr SST with AA2520 in PMC once-fired brass. Started at 45 gr and worked up to 47.5 in 0.5 increments. Going to run it next week and chrono it too.
I'm thinking 2650 to 2700 should be a good all-around round without beating up the gun? Any recommendations there?

[m1a_scoutguy]

I'll check into the John C. Garand match. Thank you.

Loaded up some 150 gr SST with AA2520 in PMC once-fired brass. Started at 45 gr and worked up to 47.5 in 0.5 increments. Going to run it next week and chrono it too.
I'm thinking 2650 to 2700 should be a good all-around round without beating up the gun? Any recommendations there?

Sounds pretty reasonable! Way below MAX listed on the above loads of 51grn so see how she shoots and adjust from there. Those SSTs should shoot good! Let's see some groups.:D

[Exiledviking]

Ran the different loads thru the Garand this weekend. The 46 gr load seems to be what I'm looking for; 2664 fps with a SD of 22. Nice soft shooting load. No pics of the target. I forgot. But, I managed to keep almost all rounds in the 5" bullseye once I adjusted the rear sight to hit POA. For iron sights and my eyeballs, I'll take it!

Going to load some more 46 gr loads to make sure that wasn't a fluke since the other loads had a SD twice that or worse.

Did I mention that I really like this rifle!?!

[Exiledviking]

I need some advice as I appear to be chasing my tail. When we chrono'd the first batch of loads, the 46.0 gr load of AA2520 was the standout at 2664 fps and a SD of 22 and an ES of 77. The next best was 47.0 at 2757 with a SD of 43 and an ES of 131.

I put together another batch to verify what we'd seen with the 46.0 load and added a 46.2 load for comparison.
Shot those yesterday and the temperature was a good 15 degrees warmer than last time. The 46.0 load opened up to a SD of 52 and an ES of 153 and the average velocity was down a little at 2628.
The 46.2 load ran at 2669 with a SD of 44 and an ES 139.

So, being new to this; I should be looking for accuracy first, right? Then followed by ES and then last SD?

Is the velocity about right at 2669 fps for non-match use and reliability? Or do I need to move closer to the 2740 fps Federal American Eagle runs with a 150 gr bullet?

I'm limited to a 100 yard range and with my eyes I'm good for a sub 8 inch group at 100 on a good day. So, I won't be shooting for groups at 300 yards.

[T2C]

If your load does not fill or come close to completely filling the 30-06 case, you may see large ES and SD numbers. An accurate load within the published safe load range is your goal. Sometimes ES/SD numbers will be greater than you would expect, but accuracy is acceptable.

I have found that case fill is a significant factor when developing 30-06 loads. As an experiment, try tilting the muzzle up and shaking the rifle a bit before leveling the rifle and firing through the chronograph screens before each shot next time and see if that reduces the ES and SD numbers.