View Full Version : COVID Vaccine Myths, Questions, Covered
As my main thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?229346-Covid-Vaccine-Status-Thread) on vaccines was still closed due to trolls, I'm posting this here for those interested. An ongoing thread for those who are not interested in this material is ongoing here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?231817-Is-it-true-that-vaccinated-people-are-counted-as-non-vaccinated-for-14-days
Moving forward: Just up, very good vid for those who want accurate, objective, science based discussion on important topics we all need to understand. MedCram is one my go to sources, and highly recommend YT channel for those trying to find good signal among the noise. Some of you may recognize Dr. Patrick.
Topics covered:
00:00:00 - Introducing Dr. Rhonda Patrick and Dr. Seheult
00:01:20 - Should young and healthy get vaccinated?
00:10:40 - Long-haul COVID
00:19:58 - Is spike protein from vaccines dangerous?
00:35:39 - COVID-19 Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)
01:01:17 - Antibody dependent enhancement?
01:09:16 - Do COVID vaccines damage fertility?
01:14:13 - Will mRNA vaccines alter DNA?
01:22:32 - Are alternatives like ivermectin as effective as the vaccine?
01:42:02 - Do vaccines prevent Delta transmission?
01:56:04 - Will the virus become more deadly due to vaccines?
02:05:07 - T-cell immunity
02:08:34 - Long term side effects / were vaccines rushed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp-nPZETLTo
Project Veritas asking HHS Dr. Maria Gonzalez.
Project Veritas visits an HHS doc https://youtube.com/shorts/eru7UibGztE?feature=share
Project Veritas asking HHS Dr. Maria Gonzalez.
Project Veritas visits an HHS doc https://youtube.com/shorts/eru7UibGztE?feature=share
I think this fits better in the other thread.
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I think this fits better in the other thread.
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Does not open for me anyway (a good thing I suspect...) and that thread was closed too I believe but I had unfollowed it. I'd thought my thread was temporarily closed but was never unlocked.
Does not open for me anyway (a good thing I suspect...) and that thread was closed too I believe but I had unfollowed it. I'd thought my thread was temporarily closed but was never unlocked.
The one thread is still open. It’s the Veritas undercover video that really doesn’t say much of anything. While I can appreciate healthy debate, which you and I have had on the subject, this video was a useless exchange.
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The one thread is still open. It’s the Veritas undercover video that really doesn’t say much of anything. While I can appreciate healthy debate, which you and I have had on the subject, this video was a useless exchange.
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It was a shorty. Here is more of the same Dr. elaborating on the comment along with another Doc defending the vaccine along with another saying that if they try off label use meds they will be canned at the facility(Project Veritas undercover) along with an out in the open federal employee nurse whistle blower on what is and is not being recorded/reported.
https://youtu.be/obdI7tgKLtA
The one thread is still open. It’s the Veritas undercover video that really doesn’t say much of anything. While I can appreciate healthy debate, which you and I have had on the subject, this video was a useless exchange.
I'm not sure which of the threads are open, but that's where that vid should be for sure. Healthy science based debates/discussions are always good, that vid does not meet that criteria in any way. Obese nurse claims there's no phase III trials. Oy vey...
I'm open to the possibility for sure side effects from vaccines may be under reported, I also know almost everything she said is complete BS, or, very unique to her hospital, and her obvious bias and lack of basic knowledge of the vaccines leaves me unimpressed.
I'm also first and last to say we will not vaccine our way out of this, but that's been covered over and over.
Very useful vid here. One year follow up on Sweden from their top guy.
From day one, I was discussing and focused on their approach (https://willbrink.medium.com/covid-19-who-is-fact-checking-the-fact-checkers-c1fb4ef96773), and getting shut down by FB "fact checkers." That was pre vaccines however. Note that within minutes, he says getting highest possible vax rates is what worked best.
I argued from day one Sweden approach was most balanced, but also now not convinced it would have worked well in US due to all the obese/ unhealthy people. That's the elephant in the room being ignored. The Swedish approach worked for Sweden, that seems pretty clear, but I'm not convinced at this point it would have worked in the US, as people don't have the stomach for the death toll, the nation is one big co morbidity, and it's a very different culture.
Per usual, 'Muricans want their cake and eat it too... pun intended.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZRR5zZ0I0s
I'm not sure which of the threads are open, but that's where that vid should be for sure. Healthy science based debates/discussions are always good, that vid does not meet that criteria in any way. Obese nurse claims there's no phase III trials. Oy vey...
I'm open to the possibility for sure side effects from vaccines may be under reported, I also know almost everything she said is complete BS, or, very unique to her hospital, and her obvious bias and lack of basic knowledge of the vaccines leaves me unimpressed.
I'm also first and last to say we will not vaccine our way out of this, but that's been covered over and over.
I know for a fact that vaccine adverse reactions are under reported. But I also know side effects are being reported as adverse reactions. It’s a cluster.
I’m sure you remember me telling the story of my super’s autoimmune reaction. Approximately two weeks after he received his second moderna vaccine, he began retaining fluid, having high blood pressure when he never had before, and ultimately noticed he wasn’t voiding as much as normal. At first, they told him the hypertension was because he’d recently quit smoking (two months before) therefore his body was under stress. Once the edema became noticeable they stated he was in heart failure. It wasn’t until his creatinine was double his baseline that they sent him to a nephrologist who beloved he was in renal failure, which was true.
They prescribed him a regime of blood pressure medications and furosemide. He continued to decline. Finally he was referred to a nationally recognized nephrologist who believed him to be having a rare auto-immune response secondary to the vaccine (I believe there has been a peer-reviewed study in this very thing showing strong evidence the mRNA vaccines are linked to acute auto-immune disease). The auto-immune response was confirmed by renal biopsy. They’ve attempted to treat him medically with poor results. He will soon be starting chemotherapy as a last resort to saving his kidneys. It’s estimated to be a 60% success rate with this treatment.
Despite nephrology believing the auto-immune response was initiated by his COVID vaccine, my supervisor hasn’t reported it and his primary care team completely denies it has anything to do with the vaccination. Thus this will be unreported. Meanwhile, the 92 year old with chronic atrial fibrillation that died of an MI two weeks after his first dose of vaccine is reported as a vaccine adverse reaction. Or the 40 year old soccer mom that has a sore arm for six days personally reports it as an “adverse reaction”.
This is such a mess it’ll be YEARS before it’s all sorted out and we know the truth, which is sad because the technology has potential.
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The obesity thing, man that leaves me just shaking my head.
How are people getting rewarded for getting the covid vax? Free food. Locally, a popular donut chain is offering free donuts for people who can prove vaccination.
This country has always ignored the consequences of obesity.
Aren't all these threads about the vaccine pretty much beating a dead horse? People who want the vaccine will get it, those who don't want it won't, and no amount of propaganda from either side will change anyone's mind.
I know for a fact that vaccine adverse reactions are under reported. But I also know side effects are being reported as adverse reactions. It’s a cluster.
It is indeed a cluster. I'm just as willing to believe side effects are being over reported as anyone can claim anything in VAERS system, and they do. I also have experienced there as the FDA has a line people can report side effects from nutritional supplements, and the system is of no value in terms of objective quantified effects, and people claim things that are impossible. Open reporting systems like VAERS are of value in terms of identifying possible trends that may help see problems earlier than later, but people using them as objective support for anything, don't science.
The obesity thing, man that leaves me just shaking my head.
How are people getting rewarded for getting the covid vax? Free food. Locally, a popular donut chain is offering free donuts for people who can prove vaccination.
This country has always ignored the consequences of obesity.
Taking any personal responsibility for any outcomes today does not seem to exist and I have no doubts calculations of death tolls based on the fact people in the US are so unhealthy were figured in to the responses, and no one from the gubment will say "well, we would not have had to go full 'tard on it if you fat fu%#s would stop eating so much fast foods and hit the gym once in a while."
It is indeed a cluster. I'm just as willing to believe side effects are being over reported as anyone can claim anything in VAERS system, and they do. I also have experienced there as the FDA has a line people can report side effects from nutritional supplements, and the system is of no value in terms of objective quantified effects, and people claim things that are impossible. Open reporting systems like VAERS are of value in terms of identifying possible trends that may help see problems earlier than later, but people using them as objective support for anything, don't science.
Taking any personal responsibility for any outcomes today does not seem to exist and I have no doubts calculations of death tolls based on the fact people in the US are so unhealthy were figured in to the responses, and no one from the gubment will say "well, we would not have had to go full 'tard on it if you fat fu%#s would stop eating so much fast foods and hit the gym once in a while."
Except the obese nurse isn't about forcing any one to do anything one way or the other. I have seen those who are obese or have other conditions believed to exacerbate the effects of covid wanting forced vaccines, lockdowns, and anything else under the guise of saving their self at someone else's expense. In fact, she is putting her career(at least) on the line to dissent.
Pardon my confusion if I misunderstood, but since she isn't arguing to force people to change their lives to lesson chances of death due to a high BMI then what was the point of bringing it up? Does her weight discredit her concerns?
I have a high BMI due to exercise and from what I have seen of your level of muscularity I assume yours is even higher. Strictly according to the science, you(my assumption) and I are obese so that seems an odd angle for a fellow traveler to take.
The obesity thing, man that leaves me just shaking my head.
How are people getting rewarded for getting the covid vax? Free food. Locally, a popular donut chain is offering free donuts for people who can prove vaccination.
This country has always ignored the consequences of obesity.That's fat shaming and bullying. A big no no!!! You're great and beautiful the way you are.... period!
God forbid adults are talked to like....well...like adults
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_CZ21AAhp8
It is indeed a cluster. I'm just as willing to believe side effects are being over reported as anyone can claim anything in VAERS system, and they do. I also have experienced there as the FDA has a line people can report side effects from nutritional supplements, and the system is of no value in terms of objective quantified effects, and people claim things that are impossible. Open reporting systems like VAERS are of value in terms of identifying possible trends that may help see problems earlier than later, but people using them as objective support for anything, don't science.
Precisely. It’s under reported and over reported at the same time. Everybody had access to do so, and there is a real hesitance of providers to do so when something is real and documented. Meanwhile, there isn’t any way to even verify that the people reporting were recipients of the vaccines. I’ve even heard that people were encouraged to make fake reports on “anti-vax” social media groups.
When somebody talks about VAERS reporting as a legitimate source, write them off completely. It isn’t worth your time.
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Adrenaline_6
09-23-21, 12:54
I got info (2nd hand btw) that at a hospital that a nurse works at, people who are vaxxed and have COVID are not entered into the system (forgot what acronym was used). While non vaxxed are. If this is true. WTF man.
Except the obese nurse isn't about forcing any one to do anything one way or the other. I have seen those who are obese or have other conditions believed to exacerbate the effects of covid wanting forced vaccines, lockdowns, and anything else under the guise of saving their self at someone else's expense. In fact, she is putting her career(at least) on the line to dissent.
Pardon my confusion if I misunderstood, but since she isn't arguing to force people to change their lives to lesson chances of death due to a high BMI then what was the point of bringing it up? Does her weight discredit her concerns?
I have a high BMI due to exercise and from what I have seen of your level of muscularity I assume yours is even higher. Strictly according to the science, you(my assumption) and I are obese so that seems an odd angle for a fellow traveler to take.
I never used the term BMI, but obese. By BMI standards, I'm at 29-30, so obese by BMI standards, but I didn't use it. BMI is useful for population wide data, it's of minimal/no value that small % of people who carry more FFM than the average person, which is why I don't tend to apply BMI to individuals. For that, BF% is what should be used, and hers is high, I'd guess 25-30% and I'm a good guesser on that having done BF% testing for hundreds of people over the decades. BMI + waist/chest ratio is pretty accurate metric that does a decent job of accounting for people with high BMI that don't have a high BF% and growing in usage.
I mentioned that because if and when she gets covid, and it's a matter when, not if with delta, she may be in deep chit and should understand risk/benefit, but clearly does not. I'm not going down the path to debate that aspect, I mentioned on the OP, that would have been a better fit in the other threads in my view.
Precisely. It’s under reported and over reported at the same time. Everybody had access to do so, and there is a real hesitance of providers to do so when something is real and documented. Meanwhile, there isn’t any way to even verify that the people reporting were recipients of the vaccines. I’ve even heard that people were encouraged to make fake reports on “anti-vax” social media groups.
When somebody talks about VAERS reporting as a legitimate source, write them off completely. It isn’t worth your time.
I think that's a given. VAERS is like case studies, has a value if you understand the limitations, way too easy to distort and freak people out if you don't. and or, have an agenda.
My hypothesis is this: those who do have legit issues with the vaccines are likley those who would have serious issues with being exposed to covid. It makes no sense to me someone would have say a blood clot from the vaccine, and a mild experience from covid. Far as I know, and I'm not an immunologist, the mechanism of what causes damage are essentially the same, but more data is needed.
If the underlying mechanisms are the same, than it leads to some additional conclusions and possible approaches to mitigate both, but still favors being vaccinated from a risk/benefit POV I feel.
Currently, I'm trying to find data looking at the effects of the vaccines on what appears the primary driver of damage caused by covid (https://brinkzone.com/life-saving-strategies-for-covid-19-complications/) to see if my hypothesis holds water.
Part of the problem is that both sides have manipulated the data for their own gain....
I never used the term BMI, but obese. By BMI standards, I'm at 29-30, so obese by BMI standards, but I didn't use it. BMI is useful for population wide data, it's of minimal/no value that small % of people who carry more FFM than the average person, which is why I don't tend to apply BMI to individuals. For that, BF% is what should be used, and hers is high, I'd guess 25-30% and I'm a good guesser on that having done BF% testing for hundreds of people over the decades. BMI + waist/chest ratio is pretty accurate metric that does a decent job of accounting for people with high BMI that don't have a high BF% and growing in usage.
I mentioned that because if and when she gets covid, and it's a matter when, not if with delta, she may be in deep chit and should understand risk/benefit, but clearly does not. I'm not going down the path to debate that aspect, I mentioned on the OP, that would have been a better fit in the other threads in my view.
I know you didn't use the term BMI, I did because per science because I am(and you are) obese and science is what this is all about right? And one look at most people that lift weights and eat halfway decent tends to torpedo the med/science claim of BMI instantly being a health problem requiring their expertise.
Not all docs drink the Kool Aid that hard, but plenty do and that seems to be another problem with covid of docs/nurses in many facilities having to toe the party line or get canned which the one nurse brought up about their hospital being barred from using Ivermectin. May work, may not, but it doesn't seem to hurt so what is their goal if there is a possible upside with little chance of a negative?
As far as the nurse goes, she isn't asking anything of me, you, or anything else.
Starting at 8:00 the nurse mentions the phase 3 trials as not being done correctly over the reporting. Next segment of the clip she asks Dr. McGee and Dr. Gonzalez the leading question about phase 3 not being done at all. McGee immediately begins defending the process by saying phase 3 results haven't been published yet while Gonzalez states her opinion the .gov doesn't want results to come out.
Not to mention that the lack of reporting is their own doing, not some gov conspiracy in that hospital.
I think Veritas missed the mark with this one. Hopefully theres more info in part 2
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Not to mention that the lack of reporting is their own doing, not some gov conspiracy in that hospital.
I think Veritas missed the mark with this one. Hopefully theres more info in part 2
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Sounds like(if this is correct) it may be some sort of .gov operated hospital tied in to Indian reservations.
https://digichat.info/secret-video-shows-nurses-at-hhs-discussing-adverse-effects-reporting-missed-vaers-and-reluctance-to-blame-the-vaccine/
Sounds like(if this is correct) it may be some sort of .gov operated hospital tied in to Indian reservations.
https://digichat.info/secret-video-shows-nurses-at-hhs-discussing-adverse-effects-reporting-missed-vaers-and-reluctance-to-blame-the-vaccine/Right but the lady said we don't enter the info because it takes like a half hour. So no one is stopping them or locking them out of the system
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Right but the lady said we don't enter the info because it takes like a half hour. So no one is stopping them or locking them out of the system
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Nobody seems to be nailing their ass to the wall over it either and this is supposed to be the most studied and so on, but that apparently doesn't quite add up.
Part 2 is an FDA economist who mentions wanting to
- pros to go around using blow dart vaccines on the unwilling, specifically listing blacks as a desired victim at least once.
- wishes they would issue out vaccine so he could go stab the unwilling with a syringe.
- acknowledges the German overtones(obviously implying Nazis) of his desires
#3 is a follow up to #2 where they openly ask the economist to clarify WTF he was talking about and as odd the norm he runs away.
Nobody seems to be nailing their ass to the wall over it either and this is supposed to be the most studied and so on, but that apparently doesn't quite add up.
Part 2 is an FDA economist who mentions wanting to
- pros to go around using blow dart vaccines on the unwilling, specifically listing blacks as a desired victim at least once.
- wishes they would issue out vaccine so he could go stab the unwilling with a syringe.
- acknowledges the German overtones(obviously implying Nazis) of his desires
#3 is a follow up to #2 where they openly ask the economist to clarify WTF he was talking about and as odd the norm he runs away.
Ok so I saw part 2. Meh. I get it in the overall sense that this MAY be the prevailing mindset in the FDA. But it's like interviewing the janitor at Wall Street. Unless of course I'm misunderstanding his role in the FDA
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Ok so I saw part 2. Meh. I get it in the overall sense that this MAY be the prevailing mindset in the FDA. But it's like interviewing the janitor at Wall Street. Unless of course I'm misunderstanding his role in the FDA
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Going to say an economist is further up the ladder than a janitor and is much more likely to be in on shaping how things go.
And I think you are right on Veritas trying to show mindset. Whatever they are(or aren't) they can't read minds so econ dude has apparently been stating his statist desires somewhere. Usually I wouldn't give a crap, but there are a lot of people his superiors have sitting in holding facilities from earlier in the year that are considered a threat without a peep of wishing to inflict themselves on others as he clearly desires.
Statists are like roaches. For every one you see, there are a hundred more hiding in the swamp.
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-23-21, 23:02
These Covid threads are getting tedious. If another moderator wants to open it back up feel free.
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