View Full Version : 10MM
Mr.Goodtimes
12-11-08, 22:03
Hey yall im gonna be buyin my first handgun here pretty soon, Ive pretty much decided on a glock, i got big hands so the whole grip thing aint a factor, they fit me well. Im tryin to decide on a caliber to get. Ive shot 9mm before, a 1911 45, and a 357 mag (sw 29). Now my question is, just how bad is the recoil from a 10mm? im no recoil pussy, i take recoil like a $2 whore takes... yea... i like the fact that, the 10mm seems like one mean self defense round. Are follow up shots difficult with this round? what would it compare to out of that list of rounds ive fired?
Mr. Goodtimes
Business_Casual
12-11-08, 22:23
Yes, by all means get a 10mm.
M_P
The main issue with the 10mm isn't recoil (since much of the factory ammo on the market is no more powerful than standard .40 S&W fodder). It's cost and options.
If you know you want a Glock, the fact that so few guns are available in 10mm is meaningless in your equation. The 10mm Glocks have a good reputation and in fact, after the 9mm's, may be the best guns they make.
You'll spend substantially more for ammo, and need to look harder to find it, than you would for 9mm, .40, or .45 ... probably even 357 SIG is more readily available and cheaper.
Business_Casual
12-12-08, 15:14
A 10mm sub-compact and double tap ammo? On what do you base those suggestions?
M_P
RAM Engineer
12-12-08, 15:48
I have NEVER been interested in either the 10mm cartridge or the associated guns until I heard about Vltor's FORTIS project. I will probably buy one of those, just for grins.
A 10mm sub-compact and double tap ammo? On what do you base those suggestions?
M_P
The Glock 29 and doubletap 180gr JHP's I carry everyday? What they sell as chrono'd at 1270FPS. compared to the same bullet weight in 40SW at 1100.
What do you dispute?
Chris
PS I would call the 29 a compact, not sub as it is closer in size to a 19 than a 26.
My every day carry is a Glock 20 loaded with Double Tap Speer GD 165 at 1350 fps. Sure, I can shoot Kimbo right out of his sneakers and kill 1000lb Grizzlies with headshots. But lets be realistic a mid sized Glock in 9mm, 40SW or 357Sig is a better choice for self defense. Cheaper ammo equals more practice , better proficency and more weapon control for faster and more accurate shooting.
My every day carry is a Glock 20 loaded with Double Tap Speer GD 165 at 1350 fps. Sure, I can shoot Kimbo right out of his sneakers and kill 1000lb Grizzlies with headshots. But lets be realistic a mid sized Glock in 9mm, 40SW or 357Sig is a better choice for self defense. Cheaper ammo equals more practice , better proficency and more weapon control for faster and more accurate shooting.
No doubt, that's why I recommended a 19 for a first gun. (which I still have and do most of my practice/training with)
Double Tap had better be ready for the Fortis release.
Double Tap had better be ready for the Fortis release.
Yeah, what he said. :D
The main issue with the 10mm isn't recoil (since much of the factory ammo on the market is no more powerful than standard .40 S&W fodder). It's cost and options.
If you know you want a Glock, the fact that so few guns are available in 10mm is meaningless in your equation. The 10mm Glocks have a good reputation and in fact, after the 9mm's, may be the best guns they make.
You'll spend substantially more for ammo, and need to look harder to find it, than you would for 9mm, .40, or .45 ... probably even 357 SIG is more readily available and cheaper.
Great words here. Seriously take a look at the cost of 10mm ammo before you head down that path. I'm a die hard 10mm guy and that is the biggest issue with the 10mm today. That and availability of ammo. Damn the .40 S&W!
Spooky
Double Tap had better be ready for the Fortis release.
that could trigger a bit of a 10mm rennaissance.
in my opinion 10mm is the only really viable "high power" automatic pistol cartridge out there. i'm still debating g20 vs g29 myself for a backwoods carry gun.
any front range CO folks want to let me shoot theirs? :confused:
that could trigger a bit of a 10mm rennaissance.
in my opinion 10mm is the only really viable "high power" automatic pistol cartridge out there. i'm still debating g20 vs g29 myself for a backwoods carry gun.
any front range CO folks want to let me shoot theirs? :confused:
I thought you resided in New York.
I thought you resided in New York.
no sir. NY has lost me and my tax money. draconian gun laws are part of the reason. :D
colorado is freakin awesome.
Mr.Goodtimes
12-12-08, 20:33
i took a look at the cost of 10mm vs 9mm and almost shit my pants, i frequently shoot my dads sig 226 in 9mm (about once a week) and his sw 29 357 mag so im no beginner to handguns but, i think im still gonna go with either a 40, 9mm, or 357 simply because i cant afford to shoot a 10mm.
i saw pictures of what a 357 sig will do to a crack posessing kiddie porn perp and quite honestly, it was awesome.... the exit wounds out his back were about the size of tennis balls and part of his head was missing (two chest, one head), soooo......
RAM Engineer
12-12-08, 22:31
Read up on what Dr. Roberts has to say on those different calibers before you commit to any certain one.
And FYI, "lose" is what a person in second place does. "loose" is what your shoes are when your laces come untied. I wouldn't normally correct a spelling error, but since this is in your signature, I'd hate to see you make it over and over again.
Mr.Goodtimes
12-12-08, 22:38
oh shit, thanks dude! cheap ass community colleges, just cant get a good education these days! jk, thats my own ignorance lol
that could trigger a bit of a 10mm rennaissance.
I hope so.
that could trigger a bit of a 10mm rennaissance.
in my opinion 10mm is the only really viable "high power" automatic pistol cartridge out there. i'm still debating g20 vs g29 myself for a backwoods carry gun.
any front range CO folks want to let me shoot theirs? :confused:
I own a OD Green G29 and bought is especially as a small backpacker. I hike with the family in/around CO quite a bit and like AMEX, never leave home without it. With a 10 shot capacity (and the ability to use G20 mags (if you want to) it seems like the perfect, inexpensive, small profile back-country choice. It's not as comfy to shoot as a full size G20, but this is not a range gun after all. I wanted 100% reliable, rugged/bullet proof, will work when you need it.
BTW: 230 Grain Double Tap hard casts work great for this app: ~1,100fps & ~620 ft lbs of energy to dump
Also for $150 you can get any number of conversion barrels and shoot 45ACP with no issues (need a G30/G21 mag) - mine is an EFK and works flawlessly.
I own a OD Green G29 and bought is especially as a small backpacker. I hike with the family in/around CO quite a bit and like AMEX, never leave home without it. With a 10 shot capacity (and the ability to use G20 mags (if you want to) it seems like the perfect, inexpensive, small profile back-country choice. It's not as comfy to shoot as a full size G20, but this is not a range gun after all. I wanted 100% reliable, rugged/bullet proof, will work when you need it.
BTW: 230 Grain Double Tap hard casts work great for this app: ~1,100fps & ~620 ft lbs of energy to dump
Also for $150 you can get any number of conversion barrels and shoot 45ACP with no issues (need a G30/G21 mag) - mine is an EFK and works flawlessly.
I'm pretty damn sure a 20/29 can't accept a 45acp conversion barrel. A 21/30 can accept a 10mm conversion barrel.
I'm pretty damn sure a 20/29 can't accept a 45acp conversion barrel. A 21/30 can accept a 10mm conversion barrel.
My bad - Got the 2 mixed up and had to look. Both 45ACP and 10mm functions without a hitch in this set-up. Probably shot 1,000 rounds of 45 ACP and 200 of 10mm over the last 3 years thru it.
Mine is indeed a 30, with the 10mm EFK conversion barrel. 30 accepts the 10mm 29 and 20 Mags. I have not looked to see if they can go the other way. A quick look on their site and they don't even seem to make it any longer. Storm Lake does though, Don't know, but they seem to have a good reputation
that could trigger a bit of a 10mm rennaissance.
in my opinion 10mm is the only really viable "high power" automatic pistol cartridge out there. i'm still debating g20 vs g29 myself for a backwoods carry gun.
any front range CO folks want to let me shoot theirs? :confused:
I'm in the area and a member at Aurora Gun Club, you're in luck. I have both the G20 and G29.
Drop me a PM.
I recently sold off my 20 and picked up a 21 so I could use a conversion barrel to shoot 10mm. I kept 7 10mm mags.
BVAC has reloads for general shooting for ~$150/500 (that's what I paid at the last gun show).
I have some Buffalo Bore rounds for carry.
For me it made perfect sense, 45acp for carry in the hood, 10mm for carry in the outback...
I own a Glock 29. What I love the most about the 10MM is the variety of loads and applications one can do with it. But, I reload my own when I get a chance. I can load rounds to the original Norman Loads to loads that are lighter than the 40S&W. I will say the cost of ammo is expensive. But, do to reloading, I can use same bullets and powder for 40 S&W and 10MM and still come in cheaper than standard store bought 40 S&W and in come cases 9MM HP.
I can load rounds to the original Norman Loads to loads that are lighter than the 40S&W.
Norman had nothing to do with the original Norma 10mm loads. He didn't work in the industry at the time. ;)
Youch!
Bullet : 165gr Remington Golden Saber Hollow Point
Ballistics : 1425fps/ 744ft./lbs. - Glock 20
Caliber : 10mm
Bullet : 180gr. Controlled Expansion JHP
Ballistics : 180gr. @ 1350fps/ 728 ft/lbs- Glock 20
If Glock ever comes out with a 20SF it will be interesting to see. Even though 10mm seems impractical due to cost and availability it would be hard for me to resist for a hiking pistol.
Robb Jensen
12-28-08, 10:39
Youch!
Bullet : 165gr Remington Golden Saber Hollow Point
Ballistics : 1425fps/ 744ft./lbs. - Glock 20
Caliber : 10mm
Bullet : 180gr. Controlled Expansion JHP
Ballistics : 180gr. @ 1350fps/ 728 ft/lbs- Glock 20
If Glock ever comes out with a 20SF it will be interesting to see. Even though 10mm seems impractical due to cost and availability it would be hard for me to resist for a hiking pistol.
You'll very likely see a 20SF at the SHOT show.
That 21 slide is not designed for 10mm. The 20 slide is notably thicker.
I recently sold off my 20 and picked up a 21 so I could use a conversion barrel to shoot 10mm. I kept 7 10mm mags.
For me it made perfect sense, 45acp for carry in the hood, 10mm for carry in the outback...
Looking at a 20 and 21SF slide, the only place I can see where a 20 slide is "thicker" is the sides of the breach face. It has to be that way due to the difference in case dimensions of the .45 ACP and the 10mm. Generally the sides of the breach face are for case locating / extractor locating and not pressure bearing areas.
http://www.glockfaq.com/cartridge.htm
"The safety and strength engineered into the Glock 20 is definitely the way to go when looking for a high-powered semi-auto pistol. This is also why the Glock 20 is safer than the Glock 21 converted to 45 Super, 400 Cor-Bon, or 40 Super. Why? Because, the Browning locking system uses inertia (the weight of the slide) along with delayed unlocking of the breach to allow pressures to drop to safe levels before the breach opens.
The G-20 slide (on the left) is thicker (and heavier) than a G21 slide (on the right). In addition, since the 10mm bore is smaller, but the outside diameter of the barrel is the same, the 10mm barrel is heavier than the 45 ACP barrel, making the 10mm barrel heavier. This added weight increases inertia and slows the unlocking process of the slide, thereby providing more time for the pressures to drop before the breach opens.
In the G-21, the slide is lightened (internal sides of the slide milled away, back to near the ejection port) so that it opens more quickly and easily, so that the residual pressure of the 45ACP is at the appropriate level to guarantee 100% functioning of ejection and reloading every time the slide cycles with those 21,000psi 45ACP loads. Putting a 10mm-pressure-level cartridge like the 400 Cor-Bon or 45 Super in the lightened slide of a G21 is cutting the margin of time between safe and unsafe pressure levels at slide-opening to the absolute minimum. If any minor problem develops, such as a high primer, bullet set-back, or fluctuation in the powder charge, there is no safety margin left to prevent a worse event, such as a case failure or full ka-BOOM. In the 10mm there exists the full safety margin built into the 10mm format pistol by Glock's engineers."
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww83/HK45_2008/10mm_slides.jpg
varoadking
12-30-08, 16:04
You'll very likely see a 20SF at the SHOT show.
I'm only interested in when I can pick mine up at the shop, Robb... ;)
BTW - Happy New Year...
This added weight increases inertia and slows the unlocking process of the slide, thereby providing more time for the pressures to drop before the breach opens.
Sounds much like the heavy carbean buffer scenario.
Interesting info. Thanks for posting it!
I looked right over that spot too. Learn something new every day.
You'll very likely see a 20SF at the SHOT show.
If so then I'm getting one. I've always wanted a G20 but so far I've done a good job of resisting. Up until I see a G20SF sitting in the gun store...
I'm right there with you.
Mr.Goodtimes
12-30-08, 20:34
i really like the 10mm round but, after seeing ammo prices, i think i might actually just go with a 9mm... im gonna go to the gunshop in a couple days and try on a m&p9 and a g19 and see which one i like more, mabey even try the 45 variations of both... the ammo cost if 10mm is insane, i wouldnt be able to afford to shoot it... and honestly, from a self defense standpoint, 9mm and 45 both kill people plenty well... im not a dsld guy (at least not yet anyway) but i know people arent made out of ballistic jello and quite honestly, i dont wanna get shot with a 9mm... 357 sig may be a possibility too, i like how insanely devastating it is on bad guys.
varoadking
12-30-08, 21:22
The Kalifornia DOJ has the G20SF and G29SF on the approved list effective 12/31/08, so I guess it's a matter of time before they are available.
the ammo cost if 10mm is insane
Not so much...just hard to come by these days...
If you wish to shoot the 10mm a lot ,reloading is the only option. Unless you are wealthy.
If so then I'm getting one. I've always wanted a G20 but so far I've done a good job of resisting. Up until I see a G20SF sitting in the gun store...
Yep. I want.
varoadking
01-03-09, 06:55
If you wish to shoot the 10mm a lot ,reloading is the only option. Unless you are wealthy.
It's less than .45ACP when bought in bulk...
http://georgia-arms.com/index.aspx
varoadking
01-03-09, 07:07
If you wish to shoot the 10mm a lot ,reloading is the only option. Unless you are wealthy.
10mm is less than .45ACP in bulk...
http://georgia-arms.com/index.aspx
varoadking
01-03-09, 07:22
If you wish to shoot the 10mm a lot ,reloading is the only option. Unless you are wealthy.
10mm is less than .45ACP in bulk...
http://georgia-arms.com/index.aspx
varoadking
01-03-09, 08:08
If you wish to shoot the 10mm a lot ,reloading is the only option. Unless you are wealthy.
10mm is less than .45ACP in bulk...
http://georgia-arms.com/index.aspx
varoadking
01-04-09, 18:28
If you wish to shoot the 10mm a lot ,reloading is the only option. Unless you are wealthy.
10mm is still less than .45ACP...
You'll very likely see a 20SF at the SHOT show.
I've already bought a few 20SF mags... Maybe that is just a precursor...
Spooky
You'll very likely see a 20SF at the SHOT show.
I picked up a copy of Glock Autopistol yesterday and sure enough there is a G20SF and a G29SF now!
Not that I need one but I sure do want one :D
From this one place and shipped.
Try buying 10mm anywhere in a local store or at Wal-Mart where alot of us buy ammo.
It's less than .45ACP when bought in bulk...
http://georgia-arms.com/index.aspx
varoadking
01-11-09, 14:30
From this one place and shipped.
Try buying 10mm anywhere in a local store or at Wal-Mart where alot of us buy ammo.
Sorry - just thought I'd introduce you and perhaps others to a viable and lower cost option than what you are used to. Most foks generally appreciate that sort of information.
Georgia Arms frequents gun shows, and I picked up 1,000 180 grain FMJ 10mm rounds from them in Richmond just today...
Mr.Goodtimes
01-11-09, 17:20
dang, if their makin a 20sf, i might now be able to resist
Rayrevolver
01-12-09, 10:45
From this one place and shipped.
Try buying 10mm anywhere in a local store or at Wal-Mart where alot of us buy ammo.
Very true. I see 10mm CCI for crazy prices at stores. And that is aluminum cased crapola.
HSM and BVAC are 2 companies that sell 10mm at good prices and I always try to throw them into these 10mm threads.
A local pawn/gun shop sells HSM 10mm at $17-18 for 50 rounds. They also sell Double Tap for $29-32 a box. So not bad at all.
I picked up a copy of Glock Autopistol yesterday and sure enough there is a G20SF and a G29SF now!
Dang it......
Dan Goodwin
01-12-09, 21:59
I am on the horns of a 10mm dilemma: 20SF or 29SF?
Pretty excited by these. A coworker just picked up a G30SF and it feels really good.
Ammo availability is problematic in 10mm, but aficionados will out. If things get crazy you can always get a .40 S&W conversion bbl for cheaper shooting.
My brother carried a 4-in. .460 Smith while fishing in AK last Summer; I'm going to recommend a G20/29SF for his next go round.
I've always been enamored of the idea of getting a G29 and then a 5-inch 10mm conversion bbl to get original Norma ballistics.
Had a G20 and 6-inch GLOCK bbl a few years back for T&E and should have kept them!
FWIW I've had good luck with Georgia Arms in both handgun and rifle rounds.
Don't be all hurt..just stating the facts..
Sorry - just thought I'd introduce you and perhaps others to a viable and lower cost option than what you are used to. Most foks generally appreciate that sort of information.
Georgia Arms frequents gun shows, and I picked up 1,000 180 grain FMJ 10mm rounds from them in Richmond just today...
It's a tough one isn't it?
dang, if their makin a 20sf, i might now be able to resist
Mr.Goodtimes
01-13-09, 22:32
yea it is, and to make things worse now im hung up as to weather or not a want a 20sf for my first handgun or a 1911.... why cant i be rich so i can just buy both? a glock would be a cheap accurate reliable piece of combat tupperwear, but, a 1911 would be an expensive accurate reliable piece of terrorist slaughtering American engineering with a soul. everybody knows glocks have no souls! :D
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