Winebibbers! Recommend Me a "Good" Wine Because Reasons - Update #2 Post-T&E [Archive]

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Jellybean

09-21-21, 23:46

> See page 2 for post-test results and thoughts.

>See second post on page 2 for the local shopping list update
-----------------------------

So, as with a number of random side-ventures in my life, yes, video games are to blame for this... :laugh:
If anyone here is familiar with the Witcher series, in the most recent one there's a portion of the game where you go to do quests in an area of the world that's basically Italy/France wine country, and you get a vineyard as part of your reward from the local monarch.
Anyway...
I was hit by a sudden realization that I have no idea WHAT wine even is. I mean, I've never bothered with alkyhawl for most of my life. And sure as heck don't know what people are talking about in regards to a "good" wine. Aside from some female acquaintances that seem to get a bit *too* excited about the stuff, which alone was enough to turn me off of the whole topic...
Well, that and there was the one case of finding a couple really old bottles of the stuff left over from the parents' wedding and downing them with a sibling at a very young age (cuz kids WILL drink anything...), after which I don't remember it being very good, or having any ill effect, other than laughing our asses off for the rest of the day... but I digress...

Anyway x2, upon reminder that winebibbing is super manly pursuit and not just for loony women, and with another strange desire to explore the reality of a fantasy world burning an itch at the back of my brain, I sallied forth, only to be blindsided by a bewildering bazaar of bottles. Which immediately raised the dilemma - what IS a "good" wine? And how do I find it without trashing a credit card or two?
Does this work like guns where I can simply buy X brand and be good, or is it more about the makeup of the wine, less the brand? Red? White? Dry? Or some of this other colored stuff? Am I supposed to look at the vintage? Or does that even matter if buying "off the shelf"? Oh, and apparently certain wines just MUST paired with certain foods, to be simply de-vine, blahblahblah...Ugh. :suicide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqpW1SGALjA

So... I figured before I do something dumb, I'd ask the experts...

Basically, looking for something reasonably available and affordable, but better than your average plebian swill you'd find being quaffed in mass quantity at a female book club... :laugh:
Something in the category of, to a more informed connoisseur, they'd be like "oh yeah, that's pretty good", but that also won't cost mass quantities of money, as I don't intend to make this a habit.
I have no financial intention/interest in getting "into" wine or collecting the stuff, or such, but I also realize I have no idea what to look at/for, and I'd hate to pick something truly awful as a first try...
This is simply a little side-quest of self discovery.

TL;DR, I don't need the KAC of wine, but I'd like to avoid the Anderson poverty-pony stuff, if possible.

Averageman

09-22-21, 04:56

8-12 bucks a pop German Resielings.
Fruit flavored, imagine green apples and pears. Be careful this shit will sneak up on you an mug you.

uffdaphil

09-22-21, 05:29

I was a beer and bourbon guy until I hit 60. Then good friends who are big wine nuts began having wine tastings to raise money for ALS. I started keeping a log of what kinds and brands of reds and whites I like. Now after several hundred comparisons there is no favorite, only what is good enough to try again and what to avoid.

But one area may have a bad year so you can’t write off a type until you have tried many different vineyards and years. Plus your tastes may change with wider experience. I started much preferring whites like Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc, then red Pinot Noir was king. It took a while to appreciate heavier Cabernet Sauvignon. Now I try just about anything from all over the world.

I’ve had really good $8 bottles and $20 stuff most folks love that I hate. $10-18 seems to be my sweet spot.
Your local liquor store may charge double the Total Wine price. I only buy by the case for 10% off and with coupons from the TW club for an average of 15 to 20% discount.

A baseline to compare others with: Angeline Pinot Noir, Chardonnay and Cabernet Sauvignon. They have not disappointed so far. Know that corked refrigerated whites will keep better than reds in the fridge. I always finish a bottle of either by the next day. Some Pinots I think should be finished the same day. Especially expensive ones. Pretty disgusting to find a $35 bottle losing half it’s goodness. Fortified wines like Tawny port can keep for weeks.

Find some tastings and maybe a wine group where you can sample different stuff without having to buy whole bottles. Good luck.

gunnerblue

09-22-21, 08:32

I don't know much about wine at this point beyond reds go with red meat and whites go with fish, but I'm finding it a fascinating rabbit hole. Hunting in South Africa a few years really got me started. I don't know why,, but SA wines are amazing and unfortunately hard to find around where I live.. I seem to prefer cabernets, otherwise.

I do notice a big difference between sub-$10 bottles and bottles in the $20 range. Haven't tried anything more expensive than that as I doubt I'm knowledgeable enough to know the difference.

As far as brands go, Chateau St. Michelle is out of Eastern Washington that I've seen for sale all over the country as well as overseas. I've enjoyed all of their offerings which I've tried and they're reasonably priced.

Todd.K

09-22-21, 14:03

Gabriel556

09-22-21, 15:55

Bean, I don’t know your AOR or I could recommend places to go in many parts of the USA. But I will suggest finding a winery somewhere and go in to their tasting room with A) an open mind, and B) a willingness to admit you know nothing and are interested in learning. Reason being is that tastebuds are different in many people. As mentioned wines could be the same “style” but depending on where the grapes are from and the weather that year, the wine can be drastically different. Depending on where you live some or all the wines may be sweeter (Michigan and most of the northern mid-west) or dry/fuller bodied (California). And don’t let anyone tell you you shouldn’t enjoy one that you like because “it’s girly”. PM me if you would like, I’m not a sommelier (wine guru) but I’ve spent years tasting and buying wines from (mostly) the US.

MonteSmoke

09-22-21, 21:20

I may be able to help if I know your cigar, liquor, beer or other bad habits choices along those lines.
Can help find a sweet or dry red or white.
Honestly its a trial and error kind of game.

donlapalma

09-24-21, 13:42

Costco is the answer if it’s an option for you.

The house brand stuff always seems to be a good value and a good representation of the style.

Their Malbec with a ribeye is the manliest way to try wine.I second this. I'm not a wine connoisseur, but I'm no wine slouch either.

Go to Costco and try the different Kirkland brands. Or look for specials and stay right around the $10/bottle price point. Once you develop a flavor for what you like and what you don't, branch out from there.

In my experience, the Kirkland wines are actually pretty good and a high value. Many of my wine snob friends agree.

At the end of the day, drink what tastes good to you. Forget what you read on the internet. Your taste buds will become educated over time.

If you have a chance to do a winery tour, go do it and ask a bunch of questions. Learning about how wine is made helped me tremendously in fully appreciating its nuances.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

fedupflyer

09-24-21, 14:36

Go to Wine Warehouse or other large beverage store in your area.
Look at their website and find what the employees like and are under $20.
Lots of good things out there for under $20.

Try a Zinfandel (not a white zinfandel) and a Carmenere.

THCDDM4

09-26-21, 00:31

I could go so far down the rabbit hole with you on this one, however- I’m gonna list a few you should grab to try, come back and give feedback on them and then I can provide more intentional recommendations based on your feedback.

These wines range from $9/bottle up to around $75.

Pinot Noir:
-A to Z
-Meiomi
-Erath

Red blends:
-Cashmere Black
-Primal Roots
-Dark Horse Double Down
-Trouble Maker
-The prisoner
-Project Paso Lonely Oak Red

Cabernet Sauvignon:
-Toasted Head
-Project Paso
-

Malbec:
-Infinite Monkey Theorem
-Tekal Amorio

Zinfandel:
-Beran
-Titus
-Opolo

Claret:
Tyrus and Evan

Drinking white wine instead of red is kind of like sucking on titties through a sweater, sure- it’s not bad, but just rip that sweater off and start motor boating already….

Jellybean

10-10-21, 01:02

Malbec:
-Infinite Monkey Theorem....

Sounds like an early-2000s hardcore metal band... :laugh:

Anyway, appreciate the input from everyone, sorry it took so long to get back to this - wanted to check my local store first.
So, since I live in the middle of nowhere, my options are a bit limited to the local big-box. Don't have a local ABC/Costco/etc - like, they are *hours* drive away. Perhaps one day when I'm further out of town and have some spare time when I'm not running to one appointment or another I'll be able to check out some better boutique selections, but for now, here's a list of what is available locally- peep this and see if anything here is worth bothering with:

RED Brands 1- [with most selection options, 3 or more choices] [Some of these also double with WHITE selection options]
------------
Black Box
Bota Box
Childress / Childress Vineyards
Menage A Trois
Josh Cellars
Duplin
19 Crimes
Dark Horse (remembered DDM4s recommend for this one but forgot to write down which options they had in stock)
Barefoot
Woodbridge by Mondavi
Liberty Creek
Yellowtail
Gallo Family
Sutter Home
-------------------------

RED Brands 2- [small selection options of 2 or less choices]
-----------
Robert Mondavi
Mirassou
Novinophobia (another cool metal band brand name... :laugh: )
7 Moons
Insomnia
Apothic Inferno (award for best bottle art - reminded me of that old "Club Hell" from Hitman:Blood Money game)
Grape Wagon
La Commanderie Du Bardelet
Trivento / Alamos (Malbec)
Artie
Clos DuBois
Billings Farm
Dreaming Tree
Chateau Souverain
Debonair
CK Mondavi & Family
Stella Rosa
Castello Del Poggio
Matthew Fox

---------------------------

WHITE Brands - [All available, other than brands same as listed above which also have White offerings, which I have not repeated for this specific section]
------------

Bee You
Nobilo
Cupcake Vineyards
Kim Crawford
Sicallia
Ecco Domani Italia
Kendall Jackson
Butter
Les Florets

Alright, long list, but that's the opening local retail selection. Anything worth a try?

jbjh

10-10-21, 02:43

From your list, Josh Cellars is decent. Coppola is a safe bet in every category.

Stella Rosa is nasty - sweetened and fizzy.

Smaller wine stores have a more intimate relationship with their stock. Somethings it’s BS and they need to move inventory, but they’ll also have a lot of interesting wines at a decent price. And as you get to know them, they’ll learn your tastes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jellybean

10-13-21, 23:52

.......
Stella Rosa is nasty - sweetened and fizzy....

See, that's why I asked. :laugh:
One of these days I'll have to check out a legit wine place if I can find one around.
For now I think I'll give a couple variations of dark horse/cellars a try.

Whiskey_Bravo

10-14-21, 13:44

Jellybean

11-16-21, 01:22

Alright, so here’s a quick rundown of my opinions on some wines I’ve tested over the last month.
As mentioned above, the selection is a bit limited to two main brands, partially because my local selection is limited, and also because they seem to meet opposite ends of the price spectrum for low-priced options, so in the interest of T&E it made for an easy set of options for direct comparison.

I found a Total Wine warehouse, and managed to pop in once towards the end of this initial testing cycle, since it’s a long drive away. Perhaps one day I’ll make it back there and loot the place a bit more thoroughly…

For purposes of T&E , I decided to try some of the individual ‘classic’ wine types before moving on to the ‘blends’, so I’d hopefully have a clue what I was getting with the blends. Turns out this was a good idea.
I also tried each wine over the course of 2-3 days to get an idea for longevity once opened, as well as at a variety of temperatures to see which ones flavored best.
Onward;

Pinot Noir - Dark Horse
Day 1 - The flavor itself was good with dark, heavy strong accents; overall a VERY BLACK cherry + mid-dark chocolate with black pepper and perhaps a hint of cranberry. General flavor reminded me of a cherry flavored dark chocolate bar I had once. Overall a very ‘deep’ flavor set that goes through the whole wine, not just overnote[s] on top of the alchohol/grape flavor.
Unfortunately, a bit too spicy - I don’t do well with spice, and this went right to my stomach and sat there for the rest of the day, burning. Which is odd, because while other wines had a spice edge, this PN was the only one to do this to me. With less/no spice it would have been much better. Put some in the fridge to chill, and it did seem to be a quick fix to temper the spice edge a bit.
Day 2 - After opening and being in the fridge overnight, it was quite a bit more suitably less spicy and more flavorful, while not too flat yet. One of the few wines of the T&E group that was actually better the second day, for me at least.
Day 3 - Still surprisingly flavorful, but flat AF. Bleh.

Pinot Noir - Josh Cellars (white label)
Day1 - Much more mild than the DH; more of a mid-chocolate cranberry/grape flavor, with a lighter/sweeter tone. Less dark and heavy. However, also no spicy punch whether natural or chilled. A very dangerous flavor set, as it’s light enough you don’t feel like you’re drinking wine - could probably finish the bottle myself pretty quick without noticing. Overall the mildness sat with stomach better, but not quite as exciting of a flavor as the DH.
Day 2- Didn’t do well past day one. Due to much lighter flavor was going pretty flat by day 2.

Jellybean

11-16-21, 01:30

Cabernet Sauvignon - Dark Horse
Day 1 - The label advertises “bold, complex, oak” flavors, and while I didn’t get the oak, it was definitely bold and complex, in a very good way. Overall a very strong dark-plum (perhaps almost prune, but in a good way) with a double-dark-chocolate bite to it, perhaps some under-notes of cranberry or currant, with a bit of a stringent/dry feel on the back end (and after swallowing). I can’t really seem to put a finger on what other flavors are going on in there, other than to say there is a wonderful complexity of micro-flavors popping all over the place. A lot of overlapping flavors that seem to run very deep. No spice note.
IMO, chilling doesn’t help it, mainly serving to tone down the complexity of the flavors, which it seems need to be at a natural temperature to mingle right. Of course, I am also a wine pleb… but it was better for me at a cool room temp.
Frankly, I couldn’t stop drinking it, and had to stop myself halfway through the bottle to ensure I had enough left for day 2 and 3 T&E.
Which is funny, because I generally don’t really like really dark chocolate-type flavors…
This would kill with some sort of lemon flavor or perhaps food item, IMO.
Day 2- As mentioned, after being chilled, the flavors weren't as great, but it was still ok enough to not throw out.

Cab Sauv - Josh Cellars (white label)
Day 1 - Is very much a “regular wine” in that it’s how I’d have expected wine to taste first off on assumption. If this was the first wine someone tasted having only ever been described wine they’d be like “yep, that’s wine”. Mostly a pleasantly sour-grape flavor with a little dark chocolate on the bottom and a bit stringent/dry at the end, and fairly smooth overall. A solid flavor combo, if a bit one-note. Kind of a ‘safe’ option, much like their PN, although I prefer this Cab over the JC PN, which kinda needed a slightly stronger flavor to really hit right. This has a stronger flavor than the JC PN, albeit without the interesting complexities of the DH Cab.
Day 2 & 3 - Survived the longest of most of the wines tested once opened. A bit flat, but overall still reasonably flavorful even at day 3.

Merlot - Dark Horse
Day 1 - Sour blackberry/cranberry flavor with a lightly spiced, mildly dry finish. Overall a fairly dark-grape sour note with a stringent follow-up. Has the sour note of the DH Pinot without the fun underlying flavors, and the dark note of the DH Cab without the richness and complexity. Not great, not terrible overall flavor, but preferred the Cab or Pinot. Still smells great though - actually smells better than it tasted; the aroma gave me false high hopes of another winner. Quite frankly, it’s just too damn sour to be pleasant. Also, did not sit well with me; felt crampy/bloaty/gassy for the rest of the day. I almost wonder if I got a bad bottle.
Day 2 - After being chilled, and aerating each test quantity more carefully, it did seem to tone the sourness down a bit, but still oto unpleasant for me, and it still sat poorly after drinking.

Merlot - Josh Cellars (white label)
Day 1 - Still the same sour edge of grape + cranberry, even after aerating, which did help to smoothen it out a bit, but not much. A bit of a spice note on finish, along with mild dry/stringent mouthfeel.
Chilling it just made for a more alcohol-centric finish, which was not great.
Day 2 - Toned down the bitterness a bit, but everything else still the same, and that final alcohol note still too strong to be pleasant. At least it didn’t make me as sick feeling as the DH merlot.

Jellybean

11-16-21, 01:40

Red Blend - Dark Horse “Double Down”
Day 1 - Another very dark flavor, but not a ‘dark-chocolate’ note, more like a very deep grape with hints of perhaps a very-black-raspberry. Almost similar to “very berry juicy juice”, but with a twist. Very smooth overall, with hint of spice on finish and good stringent/dryness. A very grape-berry aroma when smelled. Has the usual pungent alcohol whiff out the nose, but very little to none of the ‘burn’ on swallowing.
Once again, I felt that it was better overall at a normal cool-room-temp - seemed to bring out the dryness and un-placeable overall berry flavor better.
Another dangerous drink - so smooth I almost forgot it was alcoholic and had to stop myself once again in order to have some left over for further testing.
Day 2-3 - Still flavorful on day 2, if less complex and starting to flatten. By day 3 it was done for- just tasted like flat sour blackberry with alcohol. Bleh.

Red Blend - Josh Cellars Legacy Red Blend (white label)
Day 1 - Mid-dark overall flavor with slight spice note at the end. Similar grape note as the JC Cab, but hard to pin down other flavors other than “darker fruit”.
May be slightly better mildly chilled? Overall chilled, had a mid-dark grape with mildly spicy berry mix, and a slightly stringent smooth finish with a lingering mild spice aftertaste.
Day 2 - Still seems to retain most of the flavor at day 2 without becoming too flat or alcohol-centric, although, much like the DH Pinot, by day 2 the spice note is mostly gone.

Red Blend - Dark Horse “Big Red Blend”
Day 1 - A similar light spice note/stringent to the JCellars. More of a cranberry-ish sour note than the “double down” blend, and not exactly richly flavored either, despite what the bottle says. Similar smoothness to ‘double down’ blend, but with a bit more “bite” at the end, mainly thanks to the spice and slightly more forward alcohol, as it does seem to be a bit lighter flavored. Has a lighter coloration too - similar to the DH Pinot.
Taste seemed to be a bit more ‘back end focused’ as it seems to mostly hit back of the mouth and on/after swallow, not so much directly as you sip it or swirl it around your mouth to get a flavor profile.
A bit more one-note than the ‘double down’ - very cranberry/spice/grape. Short finish - flavor dissipates fairly quick.
Seems about even between chilled and room temp. Maybe chilling it might ‘crisp up’ the sour note a bit?
Overall a lighter, less rich, more sharp/acidic flavor than something like the DH ‘double down’, which had a more deep-rich berry smoothness.
On an odd side note, out of all the wines here, this one went right to my head - I quickly started to get a headache and feel lightheaded. I almost wonder if there is some sort of practical alcohol content difference between what is stated on the bottle.
Day 2 - Sweet cedar-ish aroma more pronounced, overall flavor still good although spice was mostly gone, finish was shorter, and alcohol burn more pronounced.

Red Blend - Witching Hour
A selection from Total Wine store - tried because it was labeled as the #3 shop pick for blends, and also...reasons... :o
Day 1 - Quite dry/stringent and spicy on the finish. Not quite as dark-flavored as say, DH Cab, which was darker-flavored. Sort of a two-part flavor profile; an average mix of dark-grape-berry with perhaps a hint of cranberry or tart black cherry, then spicy and stringent. Then perhaps a slight tone of dark chocolate a few moments on the after-taste after swallowing.
The dry/spice note is very forward and does tend to overwhelm the other flavors a bit - if savored in the mouth for too long, the more the spice builds up.
Lightly cooled/chilled does seem to tone the spice down a good bit and bring out the chocolate and dark berry after-bite.
I can frankly taste the cherry more on the aroma, which has a very sweet grape - light cherry smell, maybe even a hint of vanilla. The overall mouth flavor is unfortunately a bit more 2-note than the aroma.
Similar overall tone to the JC Blend, and right in between the DD and BR blends from DH.
There’s also another subtle berry flavor at the beginning that goes by so fast I can’t pin it down before the spice becomes overwhelming.
Also, VERY dry - if one likes a dry, spicy wine with a more subtle fruit undertone, probably the wine for you.
Day 2 - Definitely toned down a lot; a bit less dry and more forward grape with mid-dark chocolate aftertaste and much less spice, albeit overall going a little flat.

Jellybean

11-16-21, 01:43

Whites:
In the interest of brevity, I will make a brief summary of the white wines I tested.
Dark Horse Buttery Chardonnay, Josh Cellars (white label) Chardonnay, Dark Horse Sauvignon Blanc, and Bree White Riesling were tested, at which point I cut the testing short.
To be frank, they were all totally underwhelming, and they made me nauseous.
I could have liked the crisp, sharp, green apple flavors of the chilled Chars, or the tropical-fruit-cup flavor blend of the Blanc, but there were two things that upset the apple cart…
The first is the extremely light flavors and overall consistency of the wines; the Riesling was especially light, and they were all essentially like drinking watered down juicy-juice or fruity water. Overall very underwhelming. Maybe due to lower price range? But underwhelming nonetheless.
The second was the extremely off-putting presence of what I can only describe as “the yellow note”.
At the back end of every one of these wines was this odd flavor that tasted like yellow, or alternately, if the smell of a dry, old book was a flavor. No, not the nostalgic musty-book smell, but the “wow this cheap paperback has aged poorly” smell. This backtaste, once fully assimilated by my tastebuds, proved to be cloying, and in the end, utterly nauseating. Even the Reisling, which had only the slightest hint of this flavor, became unbearable after a few sips. I ended up returning the JC Blanc I had to pair with the DH Blanc as I was not going to waste an entire bottle for a couple sips with a predictable outcome.
I am very glad that I went for the Reds first…and I think I’ll be sticking with them for the forseeable future.

LowSpeed_HighDrag

11-16-21, 08:44

We really enjoy Caduceus Cellars wines (Maynard James Keenan's winery). At about $50-125 per bottle, it isn't cheap, but not overly expensive either. I am no big fan of white wine, but their whites are to die for, as are the reds.

We are also a fan of Spelletich Winery, a small joint in Napa we like to visit. Again, wines about $50 per bottle, so not too bad. Their 2006 Port is the best port wine, when chilled, you'll ever have.

I'm certainly more of a Bourbon man than wine, but these usually do for me. We probably have 15-20 bottles of random wine bottles on hand at any time, mostly because they make great impromptu gifts. But if I could always have my way, it would be a Spelletich 2006 Port and a Caduceus Judith.

notorious_ar15

11-18-21, 20:32

I would suggest if available:

1) Australian Shiraz is usually pretty good - in my experience it's not quite as dry & peppery as a Cab/Sauv, but also has a fuller taste than Pinot Noir. 2013 was a good year. Price is usually $11-35 depending on year. A couple brands I like off the top of my head are Penfold's or Jacob's Creek (Reserve)

2) A good semi-inexpensive find was Beringer Bros. 'Bourbon Barrel Aged Cabernet Sauvignon'. Tastes smoother to me than a normal Cab (it's new made stuff, so no particular year to look for) - around $12-$17 at HEB depending if it's on sale.

3) 'Kaleidoscope' (red wine blend from California) - you can find this at the bigger wine outlet type stores like Total Wine.

4) Francis Coppola 'Claret' is a little sweeter than the Shiraz, around $11-18 at HEB depending if it's on sale (or which HEB store you're at)

5) Dry Comal Creek vineyards 'Black Spanish Dark Red Lenoir' (Reserve) - the bottle I had was from 2011, very smooth.

I would eventually like to start taking wine classes to build up my knowledge, there's a lot of variety out there!