View Full Version : IF you had to take the vaccine, which one should you take?
Averageman
10-16-21, 12:45
I might have to go overseas, therefore, I will need to have a vaccine, or vaccine card to show on my travels.
There are so many people giving the vax now, finding someone I can bribe...?
If I have to vax, which vax is best and the least problematic?
I would get J&J only because its the least hassle.
Andy
Do you have moral or religious beliefs?
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Averageman
10-16-21, 13:23
Do you have moral or religious beliefs?
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Yuh, pretty much.
Yuh, pretty much.
The J&J used fetal tissues in development, while the mRNA vaccines used fetal tissue for testing.
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J&J and fear blood clots ! If you have a issue with vascular disease I might go for the other
Make sure they aspirate the injection site ! You do not want this going into any blood vessels etc... ask about this !
Pretty much everyone at work that's been vaccinated got the Pfizer. Outside of about half of the people getting sick for a couple days after the 2nd dose, I havent seen or heard of any adverse reactions.
I’m 41 and got one dose of Moderna, felt like I had a cold for a couple of days.
Got the real Covid a few days before the second dose.
I’m superman now. :lol:
I would get J&J only because its the least hassle.
Andy
And according to most med folks I know (real ones, not politicos), the least effective.
Moderna, then Pfizer then J&J if that's all they offer.
Personal experience with Moderna. First shot my arm hurt a little next day and was sorta tired, second shot the next day I felt like I had been dropped out of a plane and then run over by a truck so I didn't notice the pain in my arm. But once I took an Advil and grabbed some lunch I was about 90% within 6 hours. Still a little tired that night but next day I was good to go.
And according to most med folks I know (real ones, not politicos), the least effective.
Moderna, then Pfizer then J&J if that's all they offer.
Personal experience with Moderna. First shot my arm hurt a little next day and was sorta tired, second shot the next day I felt like I had been dropped out of a plane and then run over by a truck so I didn't notice the pain in my arm. But once I took an Advil and grabbed some lunch I was about 90% within 6 hours. Still a little tired that night but next day I was good to go.
Most can only parrot publications in journals, but it seem OP is less concerned with effectiveness and more concerned with checking a box.
Clinical experience: I’ve personally seen more people have adverse reactions to Moderna than any other. I’ve also seen more patients with symptomatic COVID that had Moderna vaccines than the others. Point of reference: about 50% of the vaccinated people here got the Moderna. One nurse at our facility went full anaphylaxis and required Benadryl and multiple doses of epi. My supervisor is now on chemo secondary to autoimmune response following his second dose.
Personal experience with Moderna: my wife took that one. When we got COVID she was sick in bed for seven days and couldn’t find the energy to get up to eat or drink until around day eight. She had symptoms of COVID for approximately 21 days. The first time she had COVID 18 months prior, she was over it in about seven days and never got so bad. Second infection was presumed, not confirmed, DELTA.
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If I could, it would be Novavax
I just got sick as fck, going to get tested today, my wife just went and got tested. We will get results tomorrow. Been sick two days but feeling slightly better. Bronchitis type cough, sore throat, clammy but no fever, we will see. Never got vax'd, don't plan to with my recent heart attack.
PB
SomeOtherGuy
10-16-21, 17:49
If I could, it would be Novavax
Yeah, but you can't. It's delayed indefinitely - maybe forever - for no clear reason. Its delay is one of several reasons I believe the existing vaccines are intended to cause harm.
OP: none of them if at all possible. A month ago I would have said J&J, and it might be the least bad among the three US options at the moment, but none of them are really safe or effective.
FWIW, J&J (and Astrazeneca) seem to be more dangerous to women, while the mRNA shots seem to be more dangerous to young and/or highly fit men.
I don't have mRad's in-person experience, but all I've read, seen, and heard suggests Moderna is by far the worst for side effects.
I got the Pfizer vaccine. The 1st shot was fine with just sore injection site. The second shot felt like crap for two days and ran a low grade fever.
And according to most med folks I know (real ones, not politicos), the least effective.
Moderna, then Pfizer then J&J if that's all they offer.
Personal experience with Moderna. First shot my arm hurt a little next day and was sorta tired, second shot the next day I felt like I had been dropped out of a plane and then run over by a truck so I didn't notice the pain in my arm. But once I took an Advil and grabbed some lunch I was about 90% within 6 hours. Still a little tired that night but next day I was good to go.
I also got Moderna, as did my wife, friend, and 4-5 of my direct reports. The first shot drained me of energy that day, my friend (who previously had Covid) said it felt like Covid all over again for 2 days, two of my direct reports got sick, the rest were fine.
Second shot was no biggie, sore arms at the most.
My friend and a direct report both got Covid after (Moderna) vax, neither was particularly sick. Another vaxxed direct report got Covid, not sure which vaccine, again not serious.
I've the luck of the Irish and either have avoided Covid so far or was asymptomatic.
Andy
Just because you are traveling international does not mean you must get jabbed.
It varies from country to country.
If I were faced with having to present a vaccine card, I would produce it. Doesn't mean I got jabbed. Test my blood it is full of antibodies.
TheAlsatian
10-16-21, 18:23
Wife and I both got the Pfizer, 2 shots plus the booster. No reactions to first 2. Slight fever on booster but gone in 24 hours. I believe the Pfizer is the most effective. I am a vaccine advocate.
I am a vaccine advocate.
I believe in vaccination, but not in a mandate.
Andy
I just got sick as fck, going to get tested today, my wife just went and got tested. We will get results tomorrow. Been sick two days but feeling slightly better. Bronchitis type cough, sore throat, clammy but no fever, we will see. Never got vax'd, don't plan to with my recent heart attack.
PB
1) Try to get one of the antiviral treatments
2) barring #1, use a pulse oximeter and keep an eye on your oxygen levels.
More than likely this will range from not much at all to probably not as bad as flu, but if you start developing pneumonia things can go to crap fast.
Don’t get the jab.
Delta Airlines lifted their vax mandate. More will follow.
I just got sick as fck, going to get tested today, my wife just went and got tested. We will get results tomorrow. Been sick two days but feeling slightly better. Bronchitis type cough, sore throat, clammy but no fever, we will see. Never got vax'd, don't plan to with my recent heart attack.
PB
They don't have instant test where you are or did the instant test negative and they had to send a sample out?
I got Pfizer about 90 days after my COVID infection ran its course. With the second dose I had body aches and a general feeling of malaise, similar to having COVID just not as bad.
Just because you are traveling international does not mean you must get jabbed.
It varies from country to country.
If I were faced with having to present a vaccine card, I would produce it. Doesn't mean I got jabbed. Test my blood it is full of antibodies.Yep
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Don’t get the jab.
Delta Airlines lifted their vax mandate. More will follow.
If you want to leave the country (like the OP stated), or even travel by plane… you likely are going to need to get the vaccine. Sorry… but that’s reality.
I’m pro-vaccine, just anti-mandate. If someone decides on their own accord to get it, their choice. Same if they decide not to get it. But the issue with the current pushback against the mandate is that too much of it is just “no vaccine!” If there is a hill to die on, rather it be “no forced vaccine.” But to be fair to the OP, neither here/there.
I got Moderna, and zero issues… shy of a 12 hour flu after the second shot. Next day, I drove 600 miles. Got the second shot in mid-February.
J&J… I’m not that over the whole blood clot ordeal. And when Pfizer first came out, I heard a lot of horror stories of reactions that caused people going to the ER. Granted, they were from Canadians we were sending back to Canada… and that country is messed up with their vaccine protocol (mixing doses, waiting 10+ weeks for the second shot, etc).
I would get J&J only because its the least hassle.
^^^ This. It is also based on "older" vaccine technology, i.e. not mRNA. Perhaps "safer" if you're not a 30 year old woman on birth control (referring to clotting issues it had)?. Just my personal opinion.
I believe in vaccination, but not in a mandate.
Exactly where I'm at.
I might have to go overseas, therefore, I will need to have a vaccine, or vaccine card to show on my travels.
There are so many people giving the vax now, finding someone I can bribe...?
If I have to vax, which vax is best and the least problematic?
Tell them you are not going if you have to jump through those sort of hoops.
It's called standing up and saying 'no'.
It's called standing up and saying 'no'.
Its rare these days
Its rare these days
For some I guess.
Wish I had a few more middle fingers.
Averageman
10-17-21, 01:07
Don’t get the jab.
Delta Airlines lifted their vax mandate. More will follow.
Well, considering all my options, getting my ticket punched and to get the paperwork in hand, shouldn't be too hard. We will see.
If you want to leave the country (like the OP stated), or even travel by plane… you likely are going to need to get the vaccine. Sorry… but that’s reality.
I’m pro-vaccine, just anti-mandate. If someone decides on their own accord to get it, their choice. Same if they decide not to get it. But the issue with the current pushback against the mandate is that too much of it is just “no vaccine!” If there is a hill to die on, rather it be “no forced vaccine.” But to be fair to the OP, neither here/there.
I got Moderna, and zero issues… shy of a 12 hour flu after the second shot. Next day, I drove 600 miles. Got the second shot in mid-February.
J&J… I’m not that over the whole blood clot ordeal. And when Pfizer first came out, I heard a lot of horror stories of reactions that caused people going to the ER. Granted, they were from Canadians we were sending back to Canada… and that country is messed up with their vaccine protocol (mixing doses, waiting 10+ weeks for the second shot, etc).
This, the place I'm going to had a difficult time with covid and, yes, the only way in is to have a vaccine card.
Well, considering all my options, getting my ticket punched and to get the paperwork in hand, shouldn't be too hard. We will see.
This, the place I'm going to had a difficult time with covid and, yes, the only way in is to have a vaccine card.
Just get a “vaccination card”:
https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5fcbf617fdca3ed7ada98d52/5fdf91bc9758a56656e10dd1_2020-COVID-19-shot-card-2b.pdf
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=photos.of.xovid+19+vaccination+csrd&t=iphone&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fs.yimg.com%2Fny%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FztqhC4L32qfcMvHWS0SHPA--%2FYXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcyMA--%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fs.yimg.com%2Fuu%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FkUe64JtcCUL_Ruc1W.N1uw--~B%2FaD0xODc1O3c9MjUwMDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fmedia.zenfs.com%2Fen%2Fnbc_news_122%2F2433a26e247d76c338a97cfbe86ede61
OP I'm sorry you've found yourself in this position. I don't know what I would do if the livelihood of my family depended on getting vaxxed. I'm assuming that's the position you're in since you obviously don't want to get it, thus I'm assuming this isn't a vacation you have in mind.
What I would ask myself is how far I was willing to go before I started down this path of compliance, because those who have complied already have not been rewarded with anything but a constantly moving goalpost.
Pray about it and do what the Lord leads you to. But consider that He always gives us a way out whenever it comes to resisting evil. It might not be the way we want, but it's the kinder, more merciful way. Look around the world at those who've complied already. They're never going to get the carrot, and the best they can hope for at this point is to not get the stick.
Veritas video of a Pfizer contractor's opinion on it and why het took it.
https://youtu.be/UevFPD6AtgY
I got Moderna..sore arm on the first shot and just tired the next day....took a nap and felt fine. Second shot my arm slightly burned down to my elbow...it must be the nanomites...lol
I never felt like I had a cold or had any adverse reactions, but I am also in decent shape and try to eat and be healthy with plenty of exercise. I don't wear a mask unless I have to, might have had a spell of Covid as it felt like a slight cold or so about a month or so ago.
I spoke to a doctor and he is seeing post 2 vaccinations and close to a year later he is seeing peoples natural immune systems are becoming like people that suffer from autoimmune issues
I spoke to a doctor and he is seeing post 2 vaccinations and close to a year later he is seeing peoples natural immune systems are becoming like people that suffer from autoimmune issues
A friend has developed eczema not long after taking the vax.
I might have to go overseas, therefore, I will need to have a vaccine, or vaccine card to show on my travels.
There are so many people giving the vax now, finding someone I can bribe...?
If I have to vax, which vax is best and the least problematic?
I did the J&J vaccine because it was basically developed like the annual flu shot is, with dead cells of the virus, so I figured it was more of a known quantity than the others.
I did the J&J vaccine because it was basically developed like the annual flu shot is, with dead cells of the virus, so I figured it was more of a known quantity than the others.
That was the reason for my choice of the J&J also.
This, the place I'm going to had a difficult time with covid and, yes, the only way in is to have a vaccine card.
You could have a card yet not have a jab.
If I was in your spot I would have one arm cut off and get the best, most realistic prosthetic arm that I could find to replace it with. And then have them jab the phony arm...
You got to think outside the box to beat these idiots! :)
You could have a card yet not have a jab.
If I was in your spot I would have one arm cut off and get the best, most realistic prosthetic arm that I could find to replace it with. And then have them jab the phony arm...
You got to think outside the box to beat these idiots! :)
Identify as an obese quasi woman then wear a puffy body suit with one of the open shoulder/deltoid shirts women wear.
No matter what they call you, raise hell about the wrong pronoun to increase the level of confusion you will control.
The world has gone insane, one state in Germany will not let you buy food if you don't has a vax pass.
But the winner is ......
https://dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2021/10/17/prison-3-to-10-years-for-those-who-falsify-their-vaccination-card/
The world has gone insane, one state in Germany will not let you buy food if you don't has a vax pass.
But the winner is ......
https://dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2021/10/17/prison-3-to-10-years-for-those-who-falsify-their-vaccination-card/
Wonder if they will just release them before actually serving a sentence since they would then be in close contact and the elites running the show know masks don't work?
Happened quite a bit in the US.
The world has gone insane, one state in Germany will not let you buy food if you don't has a vax pass.
But the winner is ......
https://dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2021/10/17/prison-3-to-10-years-for-those-who-falsify-their-vaccination-card/
Pretty sure you'll soon see where a jab card will not be accepted here as well being so many fake already...question is what will the passport be??
Insane indeed & we will get to watch people fighting to get on that train.
Pretty sure you'll soon see where a jab card will not be accepted here as well being so many fake already...question is what will the passport be??
Insane indeed & we will get to watch people fighting to get on that train.
WOW!!!!!!!!!
I had a conversation with my son this morning, understand he is ex special ops, plus had a good university background 2 BA's, a Masters and is starting his second Masters this month which will take him into a new career.
Any way we both had come to the same thought, but never voiced it to each other until today. Then he said Dad I never understood has the Ashkenazim just got on the trains, but today with covid I finally understand it. I had the same thought come to me and never voiced it.
Diamondback
10-17-21, 12:30
Pretty sure you'll soon see where a jab card will not be accepted here as well being so many fake already...question is what will the passport be??
Insane indeed & we will get to watch people fighting to get on that train.
Worse, you'll have them fighting to drag us kicking and screaming into the boxcars with them... and then into the "showers."
I had to get Moderna for work. I don’t pay much attention but I think I’ve seen that it’s essentially the most effective and had the least problems. I would not get J&J - most problems and least effective. Even Dave Chapelle admitted it.
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I ended up getting Pfizer in late September. 1st shot, minor pain at the injection site for like a day maybe. 2nd shot, minor pain at injection site, felt slightly achey and hot when I woke up the morning of the day after, popped an ibuprofen and was fine after that. The main side effect was me feeling pissed that circumstances were such that I felt getting vaccinated at all, for a virus my own crooked-ass government probably helped create was the better of my bad options (if I had an outdoor job instead of working indoors in close proximity to people who converge from all over the state I still feel like I wouldn’t have opted to get a vaccine at all) but the minimal physical side effects were a plus I guess.
Of course if it gives me an autoimmune disorder or kills me a year I’m going to be decidedly less pleased.
WOW!!!!!!!!!
I had a conversation with my son this morning, understand he is ex special ops, plus had a good university background 2 BA's, a Masters and is starting his second Masters this month which will take him into a new career.
Any way we both had come to the same thought, but never voiced it to each other until today. Then he said Dad I never understood has the Ashkenazim just got on the trains, but today with covid I finally understand it. I had the same thought come to me and never voiced it.
There's not much difference between the global elites of today vs those that embraced supreme race theory of the past. The same evil in a different package. This time they are attempting to get people to be willing participants in their own genocide.
Moderna caused Dimentia in my mother who is moving to a memory care facility tomorrow.
No family history of such a disorder.
I won’t be getting jabbed with any of them but Moderna would be at the bottom of my list.
It also appears over represented in the VAERS data I have looked at.
I do think we are going to get to a time when folks will be FORCED to comply and NO WAY out ! I really do and its getting closer some countries like NZ and OZ are already doing this along with some in Europe making it really tough
We know mass Germans are leaving for other countries etc...
quite a few out of US also especially a lot of wealthy crytpo folks
But so many new ways to tax and keep people from going or control and take their money etc... this is happening more world wide
No travel no shopping no utilities etc...
Our Kristallnacht Is coming as a true turning point just how will we react (in some ways the mass riots and burning of cities was a test)
For sure the push of voluntary is happening as we know and they are feeling the push back figuring out ways to get around it etc...
When you look at Australia asking business owners to ask ALL people in their biz about vax cards and show them and if they do not have them to call police to report them ! Yeah insanity
Kinda shocked how many here got the vax AFTER having covid and natural immunity that is shown/proven to be truly effective big time compared
Pretty sure you'll soon see where a jab card will not be accepted here as well being so many fake already...question is what will the passport be??
Insane indeed & we will get to watch people fighting to get on that train.
It will be in the jab.
It will be in the jab.
Or secondary injection of a chip with much more info about you ! Political and religious info etc... fact you are a “late” to vax person or a good one etc...
Sure eventually your vax will contain that and of course every 6 months required ! Which of course will include updates to your bio etc.
Diamondback
10-17-21, 15:46
Or secondary injection of a chip with much more info about you ! Political and religious info etc... fact you are a “late” to vax person or a good one etc...
Sure eventually your vax will contain that and of course every 6 months required ! Which of course will include updates to your bio etc.
And when your "social credit score" drops below a certain point, or you cost more than you're worth, or some bureaucratic shitstain in dire need of a woodchipper ride just decides they don't like you, they send out a signal and switch you off...
Diamondback
10-17-21, 17:11
Check out this stunning last sign-off from a resigning WSP Trooper...
https://twitter.com/i/status/1449538761474199555
“This is my final sign-off. After 22 years of serving the citizens of the state of Washington, I am being asked to leave because I am dirty. Numerous fatalities, injuries. I’ve worked sick; I’ve played sick; buried lots of friends over these years. (I’d) like to thank you guys; I’d like to thank the citizens of Yakima County as well as my fellow officers within the valley. Without you guys I wouldn’t have been very successful; you kept me safe and got me home to my family every night. Thank you for that.”
“Wish I could say more but this is it, so, state 1034, this is the last time you’ll hear me in a state patrol car,” he concluded. “And Jay Inslee can kiss my ass.”
The radio operator responded, “State 1034, thank you for your 22 years of service to the citizens of Washington state. You’ve taken on many roles in your time with the patrol. In your first year, you delivered a baby while on patrol … You’ve been a theory instructor … peer support member, part of the chaplaincy board … You’ve been a great role model and a mentor for all the young troopers serving in the area by sharing your knowledge and experience throughout the years. Thank you for your service.”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/viral-video-state-trooper-resigns-slams-dem-govs-vaccine-mandate-jay-inslee-can-kiss-my-a
Moderna caused Dimentia in my mother who is moving to a memory care facility tomorrow.
No family history of such a disorder.
I won’t be getting jabbed with any of them but Moderna would be at the bottom of my list.
It also appears over represented in the VAERS data I have looked at.
Best friend’s mom had a heart attack two weeks after second jab this past summer and now has a pace maker, no history of heart problems. I’m willing to take a step down in regards to income and comfort when it comes to resisting this poison. Just my opinion and no hate to those who chose to roll the dice and get the vax for whatever reason.
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Your electric car will just have the perfect accident at the appropriate time and show that YOU took it off auto drive and that is why it happened warning to all others DO NOT TAKE OFF AUTO DRIVE EVER !!!! It can kill you ! Do not try to take control of any part of your life !
And when your "social credit score" drops below a certain point, or you cost more than you're worth, or some bureaucratic shitstain in dire need of a woodchipper ride just decides they don't like you, they send out a signal and switch you off...
My good friends cousin died from J&J blood clots 2 days after
Another friend died 1 day after blood clots !
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Diamondback
10-17-21, 18:10
Your electric car will just have the perfect accident at the appropriate time and show that YOU took it off auto drive and that is why it happened warning to all others DO NOT TAKE OFF AUTO DRIVE EVER !!!! It can kill you ! Do not try to take control of any part of your life !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCcdr4O-3gE
I had to get Moderna for work. I don’t pay much attention but I think I’ve seen that it’s essentially the most effective and had the least problems. I would not get J&J - most problems and least effective. Even Dave Chapelle admitted it.
I got the J&J back in March (voluntarily) and yes, I got it with the knowledge that it was less effective than the other two. However, they were ALL supposed to be pretty damn good at preventing hospitalization and death. To me that was the most important part and with the least side effects (I don't fit the clotting issue profile). The FDA signed off on J&J "boosters" but the CDC still has to approve it.
I will make an obvious prediction here and now: the initial vaccines have all but become mandatory now for most people with a job, and eventually the "boosters" will be too. I may or may not get one, but it should be MY choice and NO ONE's other than mine!!!
It will be in the jab.
Who knows, maybe a black light will pick it up like when CSI is looking for splooge at a sexual assault crime scene...I saw this earlier & paid no attn till you reinforced & couldn't help but think of yoni's WOW!!!! comment.
I didn't follow up or even care to see if it's actually in their 411...I'm not even in this jab dance & don't care, but nothing would surprise me at this point. This whole mandate deal is about to get real this winter with a tidal wave of disinformation / division.
Lots loco in this one...
https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/10/proof-luciferase-found-in-covid-vaccine-company-patent-satanic-big-pharma-company/
Pretty sure you'll soon see where a jab card will not be accepted here as well being so many fake already...question is what will the passport be??
Not sure, but you ever see the vaccination/inoculation inserts for actual passports? That would be my guess… at least for going out of the US.
Averageman
10-18-21, 05:11
Not sure, but you ever see the vaccination/inoculation inserts for actual passports? That would be my guess… at least for going out of the US.
That's already a thing.
That's why I am asking. "If you have to take the jab, which one".
I plan to travel overseas to a country that requires a vaccine passport to enter the country.
I would like to stay on track with that question please.
Which vaccine has the least side effects?
That's already a thing.
That's why I am asking. "If you have to take the jab, which one".
I plan to travel overseas to a country that requires a vaccine passport to enter the country.
I would like to stay on track with that question please.
Which vaccine has the least side effects?
I don't see how anyone could even begin to answer that question. There are so many variables, they're all so new, and so much of the information is shrouded in secrecy and disinformation.
Averageman
10-18-21, 06:32
I don't see how anyone could even begin to answer that question. There are so many variables, they're all so new, and so much of the information is shrouded in secrecy and disinformation.
True, I was hoping for some input from a SME.
As of now the answers are all over the board.
teufelhund1918
10-18-21, 07:38
Well, I took the Pfizer. It seemed like the one that had the least side effects from everyone who took it here at work. Now I wonder at the effectiveness of the vaccines since I am hearing more and more stories about vaccinated people dying of covid nation wide and also locally. Colin Powell just passed from complications from covid and he was vaccinated according to the news.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/colin-powell-dead-covid-19-former-secretary-of-state
Adverse Reaction to Pfizer. Suppressed of course.
https://www.reignitedemocracyaustralia.com.au/wa-officer-reaction/
Looks like they anticipated auto-immune disorders...
https://beforeitsnews.com/eu/2021/10/a-comparison-of-official-government-reports-suggest-the-fully-vaccinated-are-developing-acquired-immunodeficiency-syndrome-much-faster-than-anticipated-2678010.html
Pfizer moderna unknown risks a bit further down the road dont buy into the idiocy that its going to do what some places say though :)
J&J known issues blood clots very close to the injection time this is why I would get this one if I had to ?
None of them will really protect you they might lesson it once you get it !
That's already a thing.
That's why I am asking. "If you have to take the jab, which one".
I plan to travel overseas to a country that requires a vaccine passport to enter the country.
I would like to stay on track with that question please.
Which vaccine has the least side effects?
You’re gonna have to roll the dice, friend.
All of them have known side effects and will have more come up as this giant test trial continues.
You’ll be part of the test trial once you take one.
Good luck.
True, I was hoping for some input from a SME.
As of now the answers are all over the board.
Our institution gives the Pfizer, and we've seen the fewest issues with it with the employees. In fact, our institution really hasn't seen anyone admitted for conditions related to the vaccine, any vaccine, itself.
I would take the Moderna, then Pfizer, then J&J in that order of preference. I recall an article from LA Times stating that the 120-day efficacy of Moderna was 96%, whereas the Pfizer dipped to 70something percent after 120 days. J&J is in the 70s at best.
I did get the Moderna this past February/March. My arm was sore with both doses, and about 15h after the second dose I had fever, chills, headache, and body aches. I took 400mg ibuprofren and a multivitamin and felt fine the next morning. The mild side effects were an expected immune response to the spike protein contained in the mRNA vaccine. In short, those mild side effects were a good thing, and indicated that my body was mounting a defense against the spike region of SARS CoV-2.
Serious side effects to either Pfizer or Moderna are rare and typically occur in the first 30 minutes. I wouldn't worry about it unless you have some preexisting immunological condition.
I just got sick as fck, going to get tested today, my wife just went and got tested. We will get results tomorrow. Been sick two days but feeling slightly better. Bronchitis type cough, sore throat, clammy but no fever, we will see. Never got vax'd, don't plan to with my recent heart attack.
PB
Well folks I contracted the COVID, felt like a truck hit me for 3 days. But let me share this if it has not already been covered in this thread (thread is growing faster than Im reading). If you get covid, get the Monoclonal Antibody therapy. You will feel better in hours and overnight your recovery will be amazing. I got it yesterday, and feel so much better today. Still weak but not immobilized weak. Hope this helps somebody if they get it.
PB
Well folks I contracted the COVID, felt like a truck hit me for 3 days. But let me share this if it has not already been covered in this thread (thread is growing faster than Im reading). If you get covid, get the Monoclonal Antibody therapy. You will feel better in hours and overnight your recovery will be amazing. I got it yesterday, and feel so much better today. Still weak but not immobilized weak. Hope this helps somebody if they get it.
PB
Get plenty of rest. It goes in cycles.
Just when you think you have it locked and it hits you again.
I went through 5 of these cycles.
I would take the Moderna, then Pfizer, then J&J in that order of preference. I recall an article from LA Times stating that the 120-day efficacy of Moderna was 96%, whereas the Pfizer dipped to 70something percent after 120 days. J&J is in the 70s at best.
I did get the Moderna this past February/March. My arm was sore with both doses, and about 15h after the second dose I had fever, chills, headache, and body aches. I took 400mg ibuprofren and a multivitamin and felt fine the next morning. The mild side effects were an expected immune response to the spike protein contained in the mRNA vaccine. In short, those mild side effects were a good thing, and indicated that my body was mounting a defense against the spike region of SARS CoV-2.
Serious side effects to either Pfizer or Moderna are rare and typically occur in the first 30 minutes. I wouldn't worry about it unless you have some preexisting immunological condition.
I got 2nd Moderna on a Thursday pm in March. Took Friday as a sick day thinking I would feel bad over the weekend. I felt really bad Thursday night but slept well and felt fine Friday. I am over 70 and have pre-existing conditions. Will get the booster as soon as I can. A friend in his 50s got the shots and felt bad for days. So it seems to be hard to prdict how you will react.
You’re gonna have to roll the dice, friend.
All of them have known side effects and will have more come up as this giant test trial continues.
You’ll be part of the test trial once you take one.
Good luck.
Better him than me. :)
I was on the fence between Moderna and Pfizer, and I got the first shot of Pfizer today (work mandated) not too excited about it but here we go. So far just a weird tingling in my right arm but could be my mind playing tricks.
Could you use a snake bite kit to suck any of the vaccine out?
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-18-21, 18:56
My wife and I both got Moderna. Both of us had sore arms. Our 12 year old got Pfizer and she got a sore arm. That’s it. We have been fortunate so far that despite both being trial lawyers with our kid in school all last year and this year we have been spared so far. I am hoping to get a booster soon because I deal with prisoners a lot and Delta killed a lot of cops here in middle GA. I will say we have been pretty careful (masks, hand washing, etc).
A friend of mine got Modena and he got pretty sick on both shots. So far he has dodged the boomer doomer also. So it appears to be a crap shoot.
Could you use a snake bite kit to suck any of the vaccine out?
Snake bite kits won’t suck venom out, much less an IM injection.
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My wife and I both got Moderna. Both of us had sore arms. Our 12 year old got Pfizer and she got a sore arm. That’s it. We have been fortunate so far that despite both being trial lawyers with our kid in school all last year and this year we have been spared so far. I am hoping to get a booster soon because I deal with prisoners a lot and Delta killed a lot of cops here in middle GA. I will say we have been pretty careful (masks, hand washing, etc).
A friend of mine got Modena and he got pretty sick on both shots. So far he has dodged the boomer doomer also. So it appears to be a crap shoot.
Be careful out there.
Likely to be much more reporting of side effects with those forced to take it versus the more or less voluntary recipients for various reasons.
I got the J&J vaccine back in March. It was voluntary; my wife works at a lab that tests Covid, so there was probably some pressure on her to get it, but I told her I would support whatever she wanted to do. My dad is type 1 diabetic, and he is my only real concern in terms of who I could give it to. I'd already had Covid, but at the time we didn't have as much confirmation on the strength of natural immunity.
At any rate, I wasn't overly concerned about blood clots as I am a healthy mid 30s male. The J&J seemed to me that it presents the more traditional vaccine vector and simplicity in its single dose. After the jab, I felt run down the next day, but no symptoms and fine after that.
I don't regret getting the shot (yet?), but I'm greatly distressed by both the mandates, and the seeming unwillingness to even discuss reasonable skepticism.
I pray we are prepared for the trouble we seem to be heading for.
I got the J&J vaccine back in March. It was voluntary; my wife works at a lab that tests Covid, so there was probably some pressure on her to get it, but I told her I would support whatever she wanted to do. My dad is type 1 diabetic, and he is my only real concern in terms of who I could give it to. I'd already had Covid, but at the time we didn't have as much confirmation on the strength of natural immunity.
At any rate, I wasn't overly concerned about blood clots as I am a healthy mid 30s male. The J&J seemed to me that it presents the more traditional vaccine vector and simplicity in its single dose. After the jab, I felt run down the next day, but no symptoms and fine after that.
I don't regret getting the shot (yet?), but I'm greatly distressed by both the mandates, and the seeming unwillingness to even discuss reasonable skepticism.
I pray we are prepared for the trouble we seem to be heading for.
Unfortunately, getting a vaccine won’t reduce your chance of transmitting it to him.
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titsonritz
10-18-21, 19:53
Get plenty of rest. It goes in cycles.
Just when you think you have it locked and it hits you again.
I went through 5 of these cycles.
That was the weird thing with me, too, thought I was getting better than I went down again, a couple times.
That was the weird thing with me, too, thought I was getting better than I went down again, a couple times.
First time, it was like that for 3-4 days. It was the opposite for us second time around. My vaccinated wife got sick day one and never improved until it was over. She laid in bed at least five days. Me, I was fine. I did yard work, honey-dos, etc. I was bored…until I came down with pneumonia eight days in.
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Likely to be much more reporting of side effects with those forced to take it versus the more or less voluntary recipients for various reasons.
Absolutely this. I can attest first hand to the weird psychology going on with this vaccine regret syndrome.
Case in point.
Guy I know got the vaccine pretty early on. He had had covid like three months prior to the vaccine, and he said the vaccine was way worse than actually having the covid. What's more, he said despite having recovered fully from covid and returning to normal exercise, he hasn't been able to exercise after getting the vaccine.
His theory is that he got the vaccine too early after having covid and that's why he's experiencing that side effect. But I've heard from so many other people who were healthy and active prior to getting the jab, who now even months later still can't climb a flight of stairs without getting winded.
But the vast majority of people experiencing these as of yet non emergency symptoms won't admit they have them, and if they do, they downplay the severity and treat it like it's no big deal.
I don't what the terminology is, but the psychology is pretty airtight. For example, people who get cheated often don't report the fraud because it's too embarrassing for them to admit they got taken. Exact same phenomenon going on here with these folks. They simply cannot handle admitting that they're the victims of an irresponsible experiment gone terribly wrong.
Get plenty of rest. It goes in cycles.
Just when you think you have it locked and it hits you again.
I went through 5 of these cycles.
Oh man, I still can't stop telling people about the cycles. I was feeling deathly ill, like wondering if I could stand, then a few hours later feeling almost completely normal, only to be on my back again a few hours after that.
Friends of ours got it at that same time, and they reported the same thing. Their kids got it, and they said the kids couldn't get out of bed, then like two hours later they were bouncing around, then like two hours after that back to bed.
That cycle happened to me two or three times. Then when I was pretty much over the thing, that's when the cough kicked in, and that was like a week or two after starting to feel bad. Weirded feeling cough I had ever had. And not once did my nose run or get stuffed up.
Absolutely this. I can attest first hand to the weird psychology going on with this vaccine regret syndrome.
Case in point.
Guy I know got the vaccine pretty early on. He had had covid like three months prior to the vaccine, and he said the vaccine was way worse than actually having the covid. What's more, he said despite having recovered fully from covid and returning to normal exercise, he hasn't been able to exercise after getting the vaccine.
His theory is that he got the vaccine too early after having covid and that's why he's experiencing that side effect. But I've heard from so many other people who were healthy and active prior to getting the jab, who now even months later still can't climb a flight of stairs without getting winded.
But the vast majority of people experiencing these as of yet non emergency symptoms won't admit they have them, and if they do, they downplay the severity and treat it like it's no big deal.
I don't what the terminology is, but the psychology is pretty airtight. For example, people who get cheated often don't report the fraud because it's too embarrassing for them to admit they got taken. Exact same phenomenon going on here with these folks. They simply cannot handle admitting that they're the victims of an irresponsible experiment gone terribly wrong.
Not sure what it is called either, but I was thinking of things like driveway repair scams too.
Likely some who fear no one will believe them anyway, others who don't want to seem rebellious or unpatriotic, and other emotional reasons.
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-18-21, 22:17
I think it probably goes both ways. People who are afraid of the shot are more likely to freak out at every itch, especially if they have been compelled to take the shot against their better judgement--- and people who are ultra-pro vax are likely to ignore or minimize their issues so they don't have to admit they might be wrong. And of course some folks are just crazy.
Like I said, everyone in my immediate family had a good result--but several of my friends did not. But honestly, we always get our shots for everything. When I went to Africa a few years ago they gave me a bunch of shots they said might make me ill and they didn't. I wonder if after a while your body just gets used to them?
Unfortunately, getting a vaccine won’t reduce your chance of transmitting it to him.
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There's some nuance to this...
If he comes into contact with a COVID+ person and sees his dad 15 mins later, you're right; chances are it's still in his nose and transmissible.
If he comes into contact with a COVID+ person and sees his dad a day later, chances are the particles in his nose will have been deactivated by then. And in this case the vaccine does reduce his chances of transmission because it reduces his chances of contracting COVID and becoming a carrier.
titsonritz
10-19-21, 01:12
I don't even know to answer that beyond f*** you.
I don't even know to answer that beyond f*** you.
That makes it a personal attack.
Being vaccinated should reduce the likelihood of transmitting Covid. But vaccines mutate and the vaccine is apparently nowhere near as effective as hoped.
Andy
Averageman
10-19-21, 06:24
That makes it a personal attack. The truth is that being vaccinated should reduce the likelihood of transmitting Covid.
Andy
Thats true Andy, but it doesn't seem to work that way, you can carry the virus and be vaccinated.
Thats true Andy, but it doesn't seem to work that way, you can carry the virus and be vaccinated.
True, and many of the volunteers can't get their minds wrapped around the fact they can get and give it.
Even more bizarre is when a vaccinated gets seriously ill from it(and know of other vaccinated who die from it), but can't understand anyone doubting the efficacy of it.
Averageman
10-19-21, 06:47
True, and many of the volunteers can't get their minds wrapped around the fact they can get and give it.
Even more bizarre is when a vaccinated gets seriously ill from it(and know of other vaccinated who die from it), but can't understand anyone doubting the efficacy of it.
Pretty sure that most people looked at the vaccine and had a whole different idea of how the vaccine would work. anobody came out and said "Hey, this is only good for 90 days." Early on, people thought this was going to work like a Polio vaccine or whatever. There were people getting the vaccine, who then went home and stayed home until they were told it was safe to come out. Wasted all of their "immunity" watching NetFlix at home alone.
The thing thats killing me here is, nobody has been honest about this from day one. In the meantime, no one is looking for alternative vaccines or drugs, thery're getting rich off of the current condition.
In the meantime, the Teachers Union and the Postal Union have both been given a pass from mandatory vaccinations.
Dang it, I am only contributing to thread drift.
Andy
Pretty sure that most people looked at the vaccine and had a whole different idea of how the vaccine would work. anobody came out and said "Hey, this is only good for 90 days." Early on, people thought this was going to work like a Polio vaccine or whatever. There were people getting the vaccine, who then went home and stayed home until they were told it was safe to come out. Wasted all of their "immunity" watching NetFlix at home alone.
The thing thats killing me here is, nobody has been honest about this from day one. In the meantime, no one is looking for alternative vaccines or drugs, thery're getting rich off of the current condition.
In the meantime, the Teachers Union and the Postal Union have both been given a pass from mandatory vaccinations.
I thought it might be legit early on, but the BS piled up fast. Everyone that was demanding masks getting caught without one when they didn't know a camera was around, folks going to church or to get a colonoscopy were going to kill everyone while abortions were safe, and the fact the ones pushing it the hardest are rabid anti 2A and much of the mantra is the same all come to mind as causing me to step back and take a look.
Last year lots of people were claiming officials were boosting the death tally by adding in people who obviously died of something else which would set the true believers off with all sorts. Even after interviews and press releases came out of officials clearly stating they would count a person who died of something like cancer as a covid death, the true believers would pile on any one who didn't ignore that as being too stupid to understand.
And they are still still trying the trust the science/trust the data line even after Veritas interviews showing that is made up. Just a few weeks ago I posted my thought that a potential flaw with statistics was the honesty of the person compiling the info and was assured I didn't know anything about statistics. :confused:
Reagans Rascals
10-19-21, 08:35
Here is my personal experience. YMMV
In July I landed a job at a National Lab. I was required to be vaccinated. I was 100% against it, however the job was my dream job so I had to weigh the opportunity costs. I decided to get the vaccine and take the job. I rolled the dice wrong.
On July 19th I received the 1st dose of the Pfizer vaccine. Within 1 week I began exhibiting strange symptoms. Those being an insatiable thirst. I could not stop drinking. Literally laying there with my belly sloshing full of water but still having to drink. Polydipsia is defined as drinking at least 6 liters of water a day, however I have been drinking no less than 3-4 gallons a day. Because of the increased thirst, I was then pissing every 2 hrs on the dot. I received my second dose on Aug 9th. It then progressively got worse to the point that I was waking up 5-7 times a night to piss, could not sleep, couldn't leave the house without gallons of water with me. I saw a doctor and his medical opinion was those symptoms almost 100% of the time indicate Diabetes. They tested my blood sugar, however it was normal, no diabetes, no pre-diabetes. The symptoms are still here, 3 months later. They have eased some, if you consider only waking up 4 times to piss instead of 7, an easing of symptoms.
I drove to visit my family in WV at the end of July, a 14hr trip I have made many times before, normally only stopping for gas 3 times. However on this trip, I had to stop 6 times to piss, in addition to stopping for gas.
All I can surmise is that the vaccine either damaged my kidneys or it gave me pseudo-diabetes, which I now call vaccinebeatus.
The Lab is now firing anyone that is not fully vaccinated by Dec 8th, and will require boosters when the CDC mandates them. I will not comply with the boosters, and will more than likely be let go.
I found a medical article describing what I was going through, however the gentleman described was at risk for diabetes, I was not. No family history, blood sugar levels are fine.
https://assets.cureus.com/uploads/case_report/pdf/55228/20210427-3365-1atbi3z.pdf
This has been my experience. I will not be receiving any further vaccinations. I blame myself for going against my own gut instinct and sacrificing my own principles for a job. Had I listened to the voice in my head, I would have been fine.
Absolutely this. I can attest first hand to the weird psychology going on with this vaccine regret syndrome.
Case in point.
Guy I know got the vaccine pretty early on. He had had covid like three months prior to the vaccine, and he said the vaccine was way worse than actually having the covid. What's more, he said despite having recovered fully from covid and returning to normal exercise, he hasn't been able to exercise after getting the vaccine.
His theory is that he got the vaccine too early after having covid and that's why he's experiencing that side effect. But I've heard from so many other people who were healthy and active prior to getting the jab, who now even months later still can't climb a flight of stairs without getting winded.
But the vast majority of people experiencing these as of yet non emergency symptoms won't admit they have them, and if they do, they downplay the severity and treat it like it's no big deal.
I don't what the terminology is, but the psychology is pretty airtight. For example, people who get cheated often don't report the fraud because it's too embarrassing for them to admit they got taken. Exact same phenomenon going on here with these folks. They simply cannot handle admitting that they're the victims of an irresponsible experiment gone terribly wrong.Or the other way. People who didn't want it/or just regret getting it find any excuse and over exaggerate their side effects. The placebo effect in a way. If you know they're supposed to be pain you'll feel pain. Didn't someone even complain about magnets and shit.
I know a bunch of people who got the 2 Pfizer/Moderna. No one had anything worse than feeling run down the next day. Ages range from 20s to 70s.
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I've known 2 people who died from the vaccine. One older lady in my church didn't want it but her kids hounded her about it. The day after getting the vaccine, she passed out, rushed to the hospital and required several blood transfusions. Second lady, a nurse and healthy, in her 40's died of a massive heart attack a day after getting the shot.
My wife is well over 70. She got the Pfizer shots and just got the Pfizer booster. Just a sore arm, no worse than the flu shot.
It looks like how the shots affect people vary dramatically. Everything is a gamble.
My nephrologist recommended that I get the shots. Back before delta, I asked him if he thought I would die if I got covid. He said I didn't smoke, was not diabetic or over weight. So I probably wouldn't die from covid, but that I didn't want to find out. I decided there is more of a risk not getting vaxxed than getting vaxxed. Neither is risk free.
I've known 2 people who died from the vaccine. One older lady in my church didn't want it but her kids hounded her about it. The day after getting the vaccine, she passed out, rushed to the hospital and required several blood transfusions. Second lady, a nurse and healthy, in her 40's died of a massive heart attack a day after getting the shot.
It gets me when people try to act like it's confirmation bias when the data is off the charts already. In Israel the number of heart attacks in young people doubled, and went way, way up across the board in all ages. And that was in like the first month after their vaccine rollout. They're trying to downplay it, but the data is so alarming they can't hide it. They basically have had to come out and admit that there's a link between the vaxx and heart inflammation. That's coming from Reuters, BTW, not some conspiracy theory site.
I just read an article also in the MSM about a massive uptick in heart attacks in GB, which isn't far behind Israel on the vaxx timeline. They're blaming it on people not taking care of themselves during the pandemic. For the old, okay, yea maybe that makes sense. I mean we knew that was coming. But we also know that a year of binging netflix doesn't suddenly cause a bunch of young healthy people to have heart attacks. Maybe a few who had congenital stuff, but not in the numbers they're seeing.
It's abundantly clear this whole thing is ****ed, and we've only just scratched the surface. If this is what things look like just a few months down the road, it doesn't take a genius to extrapolate what things might look like next year or three years from now. I think the US has been somewhat spared because we rolled out the mandates a lot later than countries like Israel. I also think we have pretty low vaxx rates. There's some state collected data that suggests it's below 30% in those individual states. I'm sure a ton of people are lying about it. Which I think was intentional. They put all this social and even legal pressure on people to get it, then made it super easy to fake having it. And that worked in their favor because it made it seem like all your friends and coworkers got it. People around here in flyover country aren't too uptight about it, but you go to like California and it's the ****ing invasion of the pod people. So the motive to lie, especially in places like those, is extremely high, and there's basically zero chance of getting caught, and no repercussions even if you were.
And shit, if there's one thing you can say about this administration it's to lie and fake it till they make it. Can't get congress to pass eviction moratoriums? Well who cares, we'll just make some shit up and stall until the courts get around to making us stop. ****er ought to be impeached for that, especially since he admitted he didn't have any authority to do it in the first place. But I digress. Point is, these assholes can't be trusted. They will lie and cheat to get their way by trying to get people to willingly go along with their bullshit by pretending they have authority they do not. That's why employers are so hellbent on getting the employees to put something in writing saying they're resigning, because they know they can't legally fire them. And that's also why the deadlines keep getting moved. They're trying to intimidate people into taking it by threatening to use authority they don't have. Don't refuse, stall. And definitely don't put anything in writing saying you're resigning or that you refuse. On the contrary, respond to threats from HR by saying you're NOT refusing, but you have some questions. Ask about the official approval status, who's liable for your care should you be injured, etc. Ask for complete ingredient lists. Just whatever it takes to keep stalling them, because chances are they're bluffing.
I
There's some state collected data that suggests it's below 30% in those individual states. I'm sure a ton of people are lying about it. Which I think was intentional. They put all this social and even legal pressure on people to get it, then made it super easy to fake having it. And that worked in their favor because it made it seem like all your friends and coworkers got it. People around here in flyover country aren't too uptight about it, but you go to like California and it's the ****ing invasion of the pod people. So the motive to lie, especially in places like those, is extremely high, and there's basically zero chance of getting caught, and no repercussions even if you were.
.
I doubt they're getting the poll numbers from asking people. It's from the amount of vaccines used. Each one has a label and a serial number that gets written down and goes on the vax card. That's how they keep track
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Troutrunner
10-19-21, 10:52
I've seen as much covid as any other doc out there, I'm a practicing Emergency Physician in a high covid population that on a normal day are not healthy.
There will always be side effects taking any medication or drug. Most won't have a problem, some will, and others will think they had a problem. This is not new. If you eat enough fruit roll ups most won't have a problem, some will, and others will think its the fruit roll up that caused their problems. The problem I've seen in threads like this one and most of the others is that people are struggling with risk assessment.
Lots on hear say they are healthy and will be fine. Maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows for sure. All the hand wringing over the vaccines is mostly static. Yes, adverse events happen, but that's no different than any other drug or activity that we do. Basic point is that it is less risky for you to get the vaccine than to get covid.
Looking at the data the mRNA vaccines are pretty darn good but not perfect. Most docs didn't expect them to be perfect. They do decrease your chances of getting the Rona, but if you do, you have much less chances of having severe disease. My hospital sees 16% of admitted cases as breakthrough cases, the other 84% are the unvaccinated. Only one of our vaccinated crowd died and that individual had multiple other comorbidites, that's for over 400 deaths. That means they had a lot of reasons to die regardless of covid. Vaccines work under the 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months for a reaction. The tiny little bit of mRNA is gone from your body after the first few months. All this talk of "years down the road" is not based on anything except anxiety and fear. I see people shoot themselves up with all kinds of trash drugs from the street. They still have babies, they still live, and if they quit, can go on to live normal lives.
Hearing stories about this lady had a heart attack seems odd: why did she develop a lifetime of atherosclerosis in a day? Makes no sense it was the vaccine.
Story of older lady who needs transfusions: Why did the vaccine make all her blood go away? What? Doesn't make sense.
We have to remember that people have things happen to them all the time, why don't we blame the heart attack and the bleeding issue on the fruit roll up they had yesterday?
If you have kids, I don't see a compelling reason to vaccinate them unless they want it. This is essentially not a disease that effects kids in any great manner. Those who are severely sick have severe comorbidities again. The myocarditis issue is primarily for 16-29 yo males. If I was in that demographic, I wouldn't get the mRNA shot, and in that age group, unless I had other risk factors my chances off severe disease is extremely low. Just give me the J&J if I needed it at all.
J&J works good enough for most, but avoid if you're at risk for blood clotting or have a family history. The clots are real but rare. Again, need to be better at risk assessement.
Vaccines and this disease gets more nuanced for those that have already got sick. I'd say if you're young (<30yo), roll with your natural immunity. If you are older getting the vaccination will make your super human.
Mandates are stupid. Government overreach is stupid. Choosing not to get the Vax because you are scared of it is also stupid. Not getting the Vax to spite the mandates from the government is also dumb. Don't get the vaccination because you took a serious look at your age and health situation, not because you think you are getting chipped or because it will make you unhealthy later.
I've stayed out of this for a long time. Didn't see the need to argue with fantasy beliefs. I'll try to participate and answer questions here and there for a little bit unless it just gets nutty.
Thanks.
edit: Forgot to mention all the talk about faking covid positives to get hospitals paid is ridiculous. Just fantasy talk. My hospital is in dire straights from Covid. Shut down elective surgery, nursing shortage is real. Paying traveling nurses is expensive.
I doubt they're getting the poll numbers from asking people. It's from the amount of vaccines used. Each one has a label and a serial number that gets written down and goes on the vax card. That's how they keep track
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What I'm saying is maybe they're lying, and that they're getting away with it because the people themselves are lying because they don't want to be pariahs. So the government says it's like 70% fully vaccinated and people believe it because seemingly most people around them have professed to have taken it. Obviously we know a whole bunch of fake passports are circulating around out there. I mean really, how many people have faked the vaccine to get on planes, go to concerts, get into stores, keep their jobs, etc.?
I mean really, how many people have faked the vaccine to get on planes, go to concerts, get into stores, keep their jobs, etc.?
I don't know because I have no seen any of it. There's no vaccine requirements here. Maybe concerts but I wouldn't know, never been to one. But I know a bunch of people flying right now who don't have vaccines, there's nothing here for stores or restaurants. Checking the football stadium website....they only require indoor mask wearing. Tailgating is still allowed
There's not even a general mask mandate here. Stores have signs saying "CDC highly recommends....." But that's just a suggestion.
I'm sure there are places here that require it but I have not run into any.
And from what I've heard even in NYC what we read and are told about is quite different than what's actually on the ground. Lots of businesses have signs saying we don't discriminate based on color, gender, sexual preferences or vaccinations.
I've seen as much covid as any other doc out there, I'm a practicing Emergency Physician in a high covid population that on a normal day are not healthy.
There will always be side effects taking any medication or drug. Most won't have a problem, some will, and others will think they had a problem. This is not new. If you eat enough fruit roll ups most won't have a problem, some will, and others will think its the fruit roll up that caused their problems. The problem I've seen in threads like this one and most of the others is that people are struggling with risk assessment.
Lots on hear say they are healthy and will be fine. Maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows for sure. All the hand wringing over the vaccines is mostly static. Yes, adverse events happen, but that's no different than any other drug or activity that we do. Basic point is that it is less risky for you to get the vaccine than to get covid.
Looking at the data the mRNA vaccines are pretty darn good but not perfect. Most docs didn't expect them to be perfect. They do decrease your chances of getting the Rona, but if you do, you have much less chances of having severe disease. My hospital sees 16% of admitted cases as breakthrough cases, the other 84% are the unvaccinated. Only one of our vaccinated crowd died and that individual had multiple other comorbidites, that's for over 400 deaths. That means they had a lot of reasons to die regardless of covid. Vaccines work under the 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months for a reaction. The tiny little bit of mRNA is gone from your body after the first few months. All this talk of "years down the road" is not based on anything except anxiety and fear. I see people shoot themselves up with all kinds of trash drugs from the street. They still have babies, they still live, and if they quit, can go on to live normal lives.
Hearing stories about this lady had a heart attack seems odd: why did she develop a lifetime of atherosclerosis in a day? Makes no sense it was the vaccine.
Story of older lady who needs transfusions: Why did the vaccine make all her blood go away? What? Doesn't make sense.
We have to remember that people have things happen to them all the time, why don't we blame the heart attack and the bleeding issue on the fruit roll up they had yesterday?
If you have kids, I don't see a compelling reason to vaccinate them unless they want it. This is essentially not a disease that effects kids in any great manner. Those who are severely sick have severe comorbidities again. The myocarditis issue is primarily for 16-29 yo males. If I was in that demographic, I wouldn't get the mRNA shot, and in that age group, unless I had other risk factors my chances off severe disease is extremely low. Just give me the J&J if I needed it at all.
J&J works good enough for most, but avoid if you're at risk for blood clotting or have a family history. The clots are real but rare. Again, need to be better at risk assessement.
Vaccines and this disease gets more nuanced for those that have already got sick. I'd say if you're young (<30yo), roll with your natural immunity. If you are older getting the vaccination will make your super human.
Mandates are stupid. Government overreach is stupid. Choosing not to get the Vax because you are scared of it is also stupid. Not getting the Vax to spite the mandates from the government is also dumb. Don't get the vaccination because you took a serious look at your age and health situation, not because you think you are getting chipped or because it will make you unhealthy later.
I've stayed out of this for a long time. Didn't see the need to argue with fantasy beliefs. I'll try to participate and answer questions here and there for a little bit unless it just gets nutty.
Thanks.
edit: Forgot to mention all the talk about faking covid positives to get hospitals paid is ridiculous. Just fantasy talk. My hospital is in dire straights from Covid. Shut down elective surgery, nursing shortage is real. Paying traveling nurses is expensive.
You're gonna have to explain that one to me. Especially since many if not most people now have some degree of natural immunity, which is demonstrated to be far superior in every way. I even know people who've gotten the vaccine and still got covid. Young healthy people. And not only did they get it, they got it bad, and then spread it to their unvaccinated family members, who ended up getting a lighter case and getting over it quicker.
On your second point, for how long??? And how long are the boosters going to work for? And after those fail, how long will they be able to make variant specific boosters before the virus is mutating too quickly to roll them out?
And none of that is even mentioning the outrageous VAERS data, the metric shit ton of people all over the place saying it ****ed them up, or all the complete unknowns, like what happens when the next variant comes out. This isn't people saying they got queasy after eating a fruit rollup, as you characterize it. There is real data to back it up in countries that are just a few months ahead of us on the timeline. These aren't fish stories or people making things up because they don't like vaccines. They're hurting people way worse than anything prior, and all for a virus that's hardly deadlier than the season flu. And again, we're only a few months in. What is this going to look like three years from now?
Averageman
10-19-21, 11:51
Let us consider that this has been out there moving through the population for 18(?) months now.
How can you move about through the population, getting meds, groceries, gas all necassary for modern life and have not had some contact with Covid-19?
I believe I've had some contact with those who were infected and also have natural immunities, but, how do you prove such a thing?
edit: Forgot to mention all the talk about faking covid positives to get hospitals paid is ridiculous. Just fantasy talk. My hospital is in dire straights from Covid. Shut down elective surgery, nursing shortage is real. Paying traveling nurses is expensive.
No idea why it was(or is) done, but she clearly states that's what they were doing.
https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/
"Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.
"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined."
And the FL ME trying to claim a big ball of covid attacked a motorcyclist causing a fatal crash.
https://www.newsweek.com/florida-man-killed-crash-listed-covid-19-death-raising-doubts-over-health-data-1518994
Troutrunner
10-19-21, 12:17
You're gonna have to explain that one to me. Especially since many if not most people now have some degree of natural immunity, which is demonstrated to be far superior in every way. I even know people who've gotten the vaccine and still got covid. Young healthy people. And not only did they get it, they got it bad, and then spread it to their unvaccinated family members, who ended up getting a lighter case and getting over it quicker.
On your second point, for how long??? And how long are the boosters going to work for? And after those fail, how long will they be able to make variant specific boosters before the virus is mutating too quickly to roll them out?
And none of that is even mentioning the outrageous VAERS data, the metric shit ton of people all over the place saying it ****ed them up, or all the complete unknowns, like what happens when the next variant comes out. This isn't people saying they got queasy after eating a fruit rollup, as you characterize it. There is real data to back it up in countries that are just a few months ahead of us on the timeline. These aren't fish stories or people making things up because they don't like vaccines. They're hurting people way worse than anything prior, and all for a virus that's hardly deadlier than the season flu. And again, we're only a few months in. What is this going to look like three years from now?
We don't know that "MOST" people have had the Rona. Current numbers are 266K positives, I agree that there are more due to barely having symptoms but how do we know? The point is, we don't. It's ok to not know, it's bad to claim that we know things when we don't. That's the fatal error, among others, that Fauci made. Never lie to the people. Just be honest about what you know and don't know.
2nd point - No argument that the vaccine decreases your chances of severe disease. Doesn't matter the one off stories people have. You have to deep dive each case, what are the comorbidities, other aspects of their health and what were the health factor for the others that did well. There is more to the virus related to genetics, race. etc, we don't know it all yet. The under the table slam is that the vaccine made them sicker, that's fantasy.
Boosters: Let's talk about what the vaccine does. It makes you make antibodies to fight the virus. These antibodies are circulating around and ready to get into the fight. When there is no fight we have a troop drawdown and they return to the barracks. Boosters call the troops back to the front as a show of force ready to fight at a moment's notice. This is beneficial for someone who is immunocompromised and need help and a jump on the enemy. Not everyone needs this help. If you are younger, healthy with none of the risk factors I don't see the need for the booster. When my body sees the enemy, I'll call up my boys and they will be deployed. Slower than if I was boosted, but I don't need the instant jump. Why aren't we arguing about the double dosing of all the other vaccines we get, MMR for example?
Agree that the monoclonal antibodies work, you get the boys dropped in for the fight in surge numbers. Bring it on!!
For the record the remdesivir and such are a coin toss. Kinda work but not on everyone and not all the time. Ivermectin is being appropriately studies but given what it is it most likely won't work. The initial studies were garbage. Hopefully, we get some clarification in the future like we did with hydrochloroquine.
Vaers: This is a self/hospital reporting mechanism, it cannot be taken as fact. It is reasonable to expect underreporting and over reporting at the same time. Truthfully, it is archaeic in design and this is where CDC/USA have dropped the ball. Yes, there are people who said the fruit roll up caused their stroke. I live the fantasy nightmares of people everyday, "No it's not the weed I smoke everyday making me throw up, it's because my landlord allowed cadmium in the drinking water from the city". Causation does not equal correlation. Happens everyday. Welcome to medicine in the 2000's. There is good info to have from VAERS but you have to get through all the static to find the problems. Problems like myocarditis and clots. These were weeded out from all the crazy talk from everyone thinking the fruit roll up caused their cancer. Do I think we'll find a few more issues with the vaccine, probably, we did with all the others but the issues were rare and the overall benefit of the vaccines to everyones risk was vastly superior to the rare negatives.
Due to all the flip flopping, inconsistency, suppression of information, banning health experts, lack of common sense approach we took our 99.9% chances. Started taking the supplement protocols, never wore the mask of shame, eventually got the C and it was no big deal.
Bottom line you cannot comply your way out of tyranny.
Troutrunner
10-19-21, 12:20
Let us consider that this has been out there moving through the population for 18(?) months now.
How can you move about through the population, getting meds, groceries, gas all necassary for modern life and have not had some contact with Covid-19?
I believe I've had some contact with those who were infected and also have natural immunities, but, how do you prove such a thing?
You could get antibody testing. Easy.
I've been in the thick of it and never been tested and never thought I needed to. Again, the Rona does what the Rona does. Maybe my genetics are different, or my years of working in the filth has improved my immunity, or my vaccine is working, but I'm not sick. With Delta, I'm seeing younger people aged 20-50's. If it has your number, Rona comes calling.
Troutrunner
10-19-21, 12:23
No idea why it was(or is) done, but she clearly states that's what they were doing.
https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-classified/
"Essentially, Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.
"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined."
And the FL ME trying to claim a big ball of covid attacked a motorcyclist causing a fatal crash.
https://www.newsweek.com/florida-man-killed-crash-listed-covid-19-death-raising-doubts-over-health-data-1518994
I put that in the category I mentiond before. You must tell the people the truth. This kinda of stuff feeds the flames of conspiracy and doesn't help the cause. They should not have done that.
Troutrunner
10-19-21, 12:29
Due to all the flip flopping, inconsistency, suppression of information, banning health experts, lack of common sense approach we took our 99.9% chances. Started taking the supplement protocols, never wore the mask of shame, eventually got the C and it was no big deal.
Bottom line you cannot comply your way out of tyranny.
My take is cloth masks are dumb. Surgical masks provide some protection and the N95 is great. Wearing a mask outside is dumb. In a closed workspace I can see the point. If you had active TB would it still be shameful to wear the mask. Maybe we should focus on what works and what doesn't instead of shaming people for having a mask or shaming people for not being vaccinated. This party works both ways. I'd rather we focus on the realities.
Wish there wasn't all the confusion but stomping my feet and pouting isn't any better. Looking at the reality of the situation is a good thing.
With all the confusion and inconsistencies in the alternative protocols vs vaccination, what was it that made you believe that information instead of the other information?
Why didn't you just rock Rona cold, shirtless, standing in the wind, smoking a cigarette?
My take is cloth masks are dumb. Surgical masks provide some protection and the N95 is great. Wearing a mask outside is dumb. In a closed workspace I can see the point. If you had active TB would it still be shameful to wear the mask. Maybe we should focus on what works and what doesn't instead of shaming people for having a mask or shaming people for not being vaccinated. This party works both ways. I'd rather we focus on the realities.
Wish there wasn't all the confusion but stomping my feet and pouting isn't any better. Looking at the reality of the situation is a good thing.
With all the confusion and inconsistencies in the alternative protocols vs vaccination, what was it that made you believe that information instead of the other information?
Why didn't you just rock Rona cold, shirtless, standing in the wind, smoking a cigarette?
I can see the N95 providing some protection against tb due to the particle size being larger than the N95 pore size, but viruses are smaller.
I have seen the 3M claims about N95 having microscopic fibers that somehow catch particles that are smaller than the pores, but that sounds a lot like the product literature that came with their double ended indoor/outdoor ear plugs that made almost magical claims about how well they worked that haven't stood up well to real world results.
So, vaccines forever right? Its a virus its not going away. Its safe and we should just take them because somebody says so? Its nearly 100% survivable.
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There's some nuance to this...
If he comes into contact with a COVID+ person and sees his dad 15 mins later, you're right; chances are it's still in his nose and transmissible.
If he comes into contact with a COVID+ person and sees his dad a day later, chances are the particles in his nose will have been deactivated by then. And in this case the vaccine does reduce his chances of transmission because it reduces his chances of contracting COVID and becoming a carrier.
I’ve seen contradicting research on this. More of it leans toward, “no”.
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I've known 2 people who died from the vaccine. One older lady in my church didn't want it but her kids hounded her about it. The day after getting the vaccine, she passed out, rushed to the hospital and required several blood transfusions. Second lady, a nurse and healthy, in her 40's died of a massive heart attack a day after getting the shot.
This doesn’t make sense.
The vaccine made her bleed? Where? That is the OPPOSITE effect than many relate to it.
Second case should could have had a heart attack at any time. To link it to vaccination would require more that correlation. Where was the heart attack? What was the occlusion?
Your examples are like saying, “they drank water the morning of their death, therefore water killed them”. While I am against the mandate and don’t think the vaccine is all that, truth trumps fear. And what you’re telling requires further investigation. As it stands, it just muddies the waters.
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I've seen as much covid as any other doc out there, I'm a practicing Emergency Physician in a high covid population that on a normal day are not healthy.
There will always be side effects taking any medication or drug. Most won't have a problem, some will, and others will think they had a problem. This is not new. If you eat enough fruit roll ups most won't have a problem, some will, and others will think its the fruit roll up that caused their problems. The problem I've seen in threads like this one and most of the others is that people are struggling with risk assessment.
Lots on hear say they are healthy and will be fine. Maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows for sure. All the hand wringing over the vaccines is mostly static. Yes, adverse events happen, but that's no different than any other drug or activity that we do. Basic point is that it is less risky for you to get the vaccine than to get covid.
Looking at the data the mRNA vaccines are pretty darn good but not perfect. Most docs didn't expect them to be perfect. They do decrease your chances of getting the Rona, but if you do, you have much less chances of having severe disease. My hospital sees 16% of admitted cases as breakthrough cases, the other 84% are the unvaccinated. Only one of our vaccinated crowd died and that individual had multiple other comorbidites, that's for over 400 deaths. That means they had a lot of reasons to die regardless of covid. Vaccines work under the 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months for a reaction. The tiny little bit of mRNA is gone from your body after the first few months. All this talk of "years down the road" is not based on anything except anxiety and fear. I see people shoot themselves up with all kinds of trash drugs from the street. They still have babies, they still live, and if they quit, can go on to live normal lives.
Hearing stories about this lady had a heart attack seems odd: why did she develop a lifetime of atherosclerosis in a day? Makes no sense it was the vaccine.
Story of older lady who needs transfusions: Why did the vaccine make all her blood go away? What? Doesn't make sense.
We have to remember that people have things happen to them all the time, why don't we blame the heart attack and the bleeding issue on the fruit roll up they had yesterday?
If you have kids, I don't see a compelling reason to vaccinate them unless they want it. This is essentially not a disease that effects kids in any great manner. Those who are severely sick have severe comorbidities again. The myocarditis issue is primarily for 16-29 yo males. If I was in that demographic, I wouldn't get the mRNA shot, and in that age group, unless I had other risk factors my chances off severe disease is extremely low. Just give me the J&J if I needed it at all.
J&J works good enough for most, but avoid if you're at risk for blood clotting or have a family history. The clots are real but rare. Again, need to be better at risk assessement.
Vaccines and this disease gets more nuanced for those that have already got sick. I'd say if you're young (<30yo), roll with your natural immunity. If you are older getting the vaccination will make your super human.
Mandates are stupid. Government overreach is stupid. Choosing not to get the Vax because you are scared of it is also stupid. Not getting the Vax to spite the mandates from the government is also dumb. Don't get the vaccination because you took a serious look at your age and health situation, not because you think you are getting chipped or because it will make you unhealthy later.
I've stayed out of this for a long time. Didn't see the need to argue with fantasy beliefs. I'll try to participate and answer questions here and there for a little bit unless it just gets nutty.
Thanks.
edit: Forgot to mention all the talk about faking covid positives to get hospitals paid is ridiculous. Just fantasy talk. My hospital is in dire straights from Covid. Shut down elective surgery, nursing shortage is real. Paying traveling nurses is expensive.
Already has the Rona, twice, I won’t get the vaccine because they tell me that I have to. I turned down a one year contract for 240k for three shifts in a COVID ICU per week; the same ICU I worked in for several years, because they required the vaccine. I was good enough to work the unit for 18 months without the vaccination running with them only giving me ONE N95 for the first six months of the pandemic. So yeah….
I appreciate you trying to inject some common sense to this crowd but it won’t go well for you. You’re going to be told that you’re a shill for the hospital, a shill for the government, and you’re bought and paid for by big Pharma. You’ll be accused of being in on a grand conspiracy and that you’re not to be trusted. Good luck, sir.
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I don't want to argue with you, but your statement can come across as: the vaccine will not/can not cause issues. I don't know the exact answer to your medical questions. I do know that they died shortly after being vaccinated. I also do not know anybody that has died from the virus. I also had it last fall.
I don't want to argue with you, but your statement can come across as: the vaccine will not/can not cause issues. I don't know the exact answer to your medical questions. I do know that they died shortly after being vaccinated. I also do not know anybody that has died from the virus. I also had it last fall.
So then you must admit, correlation but you cannot assign causation.
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Troutrunner
10-19-21, 14:18
Already has the Rona, twice, I won’t get the vaccine because they tell me that I have to. I turned down a one year contract for 240k for three shifts in a COVID ICU per week; the same ICU I worked in for several years, because they required the vaccine. I was good enough to work the unit for 18 months without the vaccination running with them only giving me ONE N95 for the first six months of the pandemic. So yeah….
I appreciate you trying to inject some common sense to this crowd but it won’t go well for you. You’re going to be told that you’re a shill for the hospital, a shill for the government, and you’re bought and paid for by big Pharma. You’ll be accused of being in on a grand conspiracy and that you’re not to be trusted. Good luck, sir.
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Natural immunity - the CDC and all the mandate craziness has completely dropped the ball on this one. If you've had it and are young and low risk I think this should count for something. Agree that the vaccine is not the only way out of this. Everyone will get it eventually, but hopefully it becomes like the other coronavirus' that we get every year and is just a simple cold. That's the goal.
If had the virus and your older or with risk factors, add in a single vaccination and your super human.
One of the reasons for the booster is the rush to get the vaccine out. Pfizer is 3 weeks between shots and Moderna was 4 weeks. Moderna showed a little longer lasting effect with floating antibodies. Both still work to call in the troops from off the bench. Anyway, the problem was big and we needed a fast response. If the original studies put 3-6 months between the two shots we might not be talking about boosters. But, such is the race for the cure (or rather to diminish the severity).
Mandates still suck, this is America. People should get to choose what they want to do, I just wish they made informed decisions and not off of fantasy conjecture.
CZGunner, yes the vaccine can cause problems, it's just that is is so exceedingly rare that it's not the reason not to get it. We do everyday things that are magnitudes more risky, this is a gun forum, and we do it anyway. That's why I mentioned that we are poor as a group looking at risk assessment.
I've known lots of people outside of my job that got the Rona (unvaccinated), they all have lived but I have lost a few coworkers to it (unvaccinated). It was easy for some and no picnic for others.
Comment about N95's not working is fantasy. They work and work well. They aren't comfortable and more expensive. I'm in the thick for 18 months and wear the n95 all day everyday at work. Keep in mind the virus is contained in respiratory particles making the size bigger than and individual virus. It's not like a single virus is floating around looking to bypass your N95. They are clumped together in your human moisture.
I'm not worried about being labeled. It's cool. There are people that will not be swayed despite the overwhelming data in support of vaccines. Maybe, these comments will help someone who is on the edge and just wanted their questions answered. No sleep lost.
.
Comment about N95's not working is fantasy. They work and work well. They aren't comfortable and more expensive. I'm in the thick for 18 months and wear the n95 all day everyday at work. Keep in mind the virus is contained in respiratory particles making the size bigger than and individual virus. It's not like a single virus is floating around looking to bypass your N95. They are clumped together in your human moisture.
.
You might want to direct that at 3M then since they market the mask as stopping individual particles and the marketing sounds similar to their ear plug marketing from 20 years back that did turn out to be more fantasy than fact.
Already has the Rona, twice, I won’t get the vaccine because they tell me that I have to. I turned down a one year contract for 240k for three shifts in a COVID ICU per week; the same ICU I worked in for several years, because they required the vaccine. I was good enough to work the unit for 18 months without the vaccination running with them only giving me ONE N95 for the first six months of the pandemic. So yeah….
I appreciate you trying to inject some common sense to this crowd but it won’t go well for you. You’re going to be told that you’re a shill for the hospital, a shill for the government, and you’re bought and paid for by big Pharma. You’ll be accused of being in on a grand conspiracy and that you’re not to be trusted. Good luck, sir.
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Not sure if the people are/were shills or what, but any comment other than the strict party line would get criticized as conspiracy theories or out right lies. The mention of the motorcycle wreck caused by covid would get a round of comments claiming that never did, and never could, happen due to medical protocol and ethics.
The video of the medical examiner confirming the mention would then get the claims I and others were basically too stupid to understand what the ME and others falsifying the info really meant.
Not sure if the people are/were shills or what, but any comment other than the strict party line would get criticized as conspiracy theories or out right lies. The mention of the motorcycle wreck caused by covid would get a round of comments claiming that never did, and never could, happen due to medical protocol and ethics.
The video of the medical examiner confirming the mention would then get the claims I and others were basically too stupid to understand what the ME and others falsifying the info really meant.
Thank you for proving the point I made. Much appreciated.
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My take is cloth masks are dumb. Surgical masks provide some protection and the N95 is great. Wearing a mask outside is dumb. In a closed workspace I can see the point. If you had active TB would it still be shameful to wear the mask. Maybe we should focus on what works and what doesn't instead of shaming people for having a mask or shaming people for not being vaccinated. This party works both ways. I'd rather we focus on the realities.
Wish there wasn't all the confusion but stomping my feet and pouting isn't any better. Looking at the reality of the situation is a good thing.
With all the confusion and inconsistencies in the alternative protocols vs vaccination, what was it that made you believe that information instead of the other information?
Why didn't you just rock Rona cold, shirtless, standing in the wind, smoking a cigarette?
Many doctors have had success with early intervention and yet they were shut down, and censured. The CDC, FDA, NIH, and corporate medicine/hospitals played politics at the expense of human life and have seriously damaged the credibility of the entire medical system/profession.
We don't know that "MOST" people have had the Rona. Current numbers are 266K positives, I agree that there are more due to barely having symptoms but how do we know? The point is, we don't. It's ok to not know, it's bad to claim that we know things when we don't. That's the fatal error, among others, that Fauci made. Never lie to the people. Just be honest about what you know and don't know.
2nd point - No argument that the vaccine decreases your chances of severe disease. Doesn't matter the one off stories people have. You have to deep dive each case, what are the comorbidities, other aspects of their health and what were the health factor for the others that did well. There is more to the virus related to genetics, race. etc, we don't know it all yet. The under the table slam is that the vaccine made them sicker, that's fantasy.
Boosters: Let's talk about what the vaccine does. It makes you make antibodies to fight the virus. These antibodies are circulating around and ready to get into the fight. When there is no fight we have a troop drawdown and they return to the barracks. Boosters call the troops back to the front as a show of force ready to fight at a moment's notice. This is beneficial for someone who is immunocompromised and need help and a jump on the enemy. Not everyone needs this help. If you are younger, healthy with none of the risk factors I don't see the need for the booster. When my body sees the enemy, I'll call up my boys and they will be deployed. Slower than if I was boosted, but I don't need the instant jump. Why aren't we arguing about the double dosing of all the other vaccines we get, MMR for example?
Agree that the monoclonal antibodies work, you get the boys dropped in for the fight in surge numbers. Bring it on!!
For the record the remdesivir and such are a coin toss. Kinda work but not on everyone and not all the time. Ivermectin is being appropriately studies but given what it is it most likely won't work. The initial studies were garbage. Hopefully, we get some clarification in the future like we did with hydrochloroquine.
Vaers: This is a self/hospital reporting mechanism, it cannot be taken as fact. It is reasonable to expect underreporting and over reporting at the same time. Truthfully, it is archaeic in design and this is where CDC/USA have dropped the ball. Yes, there are people who said the fruit roll up caused their stroke. I live the fantasy nightmares of people everyday, "No it's not the weed I smoke everyday making me throw up, it's because my landlord allowed cadmium in the drinking water from the city". Causation does not equal correlation. Happens everyday. Welcome to medicine in the 2000's. There is good info to have from VAERS but you have to get through all the static to find the problems. Problems like myocarditis and clots. These were weeded out from all the crazy talk from everyone thinking the fruit roll up caused their cancer. Do I think we'll find a few more issues with the vaccine, probably, we did with all the others but the issues were rare and the overall benefit of the vaccines to everyones risk was vastly superior to the rare negatives.
Oh you betcha there's an argument! But let's just assume you're right. Let's assume that taking an experimental vaccine that already has a deadly track record will reduce your chances of death from covid. Considering what those chances are for the average person to begin with, we're talking the difference between infinitesimally small and slightly less than that. How's that for some advertising? "Oh just take this experimental sorta kinda FDA approved but not really vaccine, that's already injured and killed a bunch of people, and we promise your chances of dying from covid will go down a few hundredths of a percent."
Indeed, let's talk about boosters. Israel found them necessary for the general population at three months. Now one month after the booster they're finding a second booster necessary for most people, and are in fact about to make it mandatory for fully vaccinated status to get into public places. This ain't the freaking MMR vaccine! MMR has fewer reports of injuries in its entire life than any of the covid jabs in just a few months, and by a lot. And they aren't having to threaten people with being taken to a concentration camp to get them to get it either. Most do, some don't, and ya know what? Nobody cares because we don't have cases, because the MMR vaccine works! And you know what else? Two shots last us for our entire lives! Nobody is going to hunt you down and make you a criminal because you didn't get your monthly MMR booster. How you can even compare those two is so far beyond me I can only conclude you have your own agenda here.
I never said VAERS can be taken as fact, but to dismiss it is insanity. We're not talking a slight increase here. We're talking orders of magnitude more reports, in a time frame that's orders of magnitude smaller than any other widely distributed vaccine in history. And all amid reports from nurses around the country testifying that 1, they do not have time to use the system, 2, that the system often won't work, meaning they can't make the report, and 3, that their bosses are pressuring them not to use it. This dismissal of VARES is a propaganda line from the administration. Yea it has problems, and no that doesn't make the numbers any less alarming, especially since the problems with it are weighted in the direction of underreporting.
I put that in the category I mentiond before. You must tell the people the truth. This kinda of stuff feeds the flames of conspiracy and doesn't help the cause. They should not have done that.
They had to, because without doing that covid would have been paid zero attention to by the public. They had to lie to ram this whole agenda down our throats. And that includes the vaccines.
This doesn’t make sense.
The vaccine made her bleed? Where? That is the OPPOSITE effect than many relate to it.
Second case should could have had a heart attack at any time. To link it to vaccination would require more that correlation. Where was the heart attack? What was the occlusion?
Your examples are like saying, “they drank water the morning of their death, therefore water killed them”. While I am against the mandate and don’t think the vaccine is all that, truth trumps fear. And what you’re telling requires further investigation. As it stands, it just muddies the waters.
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I don't know how, but it does in fact make some people bleed. It almost kind of looks like a hemorrhagic fever.
Probably J and J for me. I had a heart valve replaced back in ‘14 and the J and J variation hasn’t had any of the heart inflammation issues reported. I won’t be taking the vaccine any time soon tho…..
Thank you for proving the point I made. Much appreciated.
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Except I didn't post anything proving your point.
as one of the ones pushing health :)
I am not saying its going to protect you or keep you from it (might reduce your chance of getting it)
health can reverse many issues that are causing complications !
you have way less risk and do much better post and most often have very little problems with it IF you are truly in metabolic shape
Being obese and or having other issues such as diabetes pre diabetes or COPD or... is a huge problem
Not only that your life is just so much better all around not to mention other things flu and colds and allergies and just being able to do things basic yard work etc... being fat is not always a sign you can be TOFI and still be insane out of shape etc...
those claiming to be in shape as in my friend was in shape he got sick ? Were you their doc did you see their labs IMHO you have to have labs and know your blood since covid is vascular ! Many are not in the shape they think they are !
main thing is diet !
Just wanted to be clear on that and again considering only %12 of our country is in metabolic shape that is pretty freaking sad/pathetic !
start NOW
If you had started when covid hit you could be in great shape :)
If you feel the jab helps then get it and figure in shape and the jab you would again be that much better off
Averageman
10-19-21, 19:27
Many doctors have had success with early intervention and yet they were shut down, and censured. The CDC, FDA, NIH, and corporate medicine/hospitals played politics at the expense of human life and have seriously damaged the credibility of the entire medical system/profession.
This;
And for an odd reason, I seem to remember both Biden and Harris throwing shade on the vaccine and saying "They weren't sure they would take it, Trump had his hands in it." So that kind of turned in to a nightmare of a Tar Baby for them, but the MSM saved them by not reporting it.
Then we have Fauci, who is a complete nincompoop. A shill for the WHO, China and big Pharma.
And the Billions and Billions of dollars made off of all of these vaccines.
Is it any wonder once the orders were in for all of these vaccines, the push for getting them in arms was bigger than inproving the vaccine?
titsonritz
10-19-21, 19:38
I've known 2 people who died from the vaccine. One older lady in my church didn't want it but her kids hounded her about it. The day after getting the vaccine, she passed out, rushed to the hospital and required several blood transfusions. Second lady, a nurse and healthy, in her 40's died of a massive heart attack a day after getting the shot.
I bet they feel like shit.
I bet they feel like shit.I sure hope so. They've been really quiet since she died.
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I bet they feel like shit.
Saw the response to the specific case, but not all are a safe bet.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/567402-fully-vaccinated-man-dies-of-covid-19-daughter
"A woman's fully vaccinated father died from COVID-19, with her saying she "can't imagine how much more he would have suffered if he had not gotten the vaccine.""
"According to Jan Patterson, an infectious disease specialist at UT Health, Rodriguez was right in her assessment, that her father would have suffered more if he had not been vaccinated."
Saw the response to the specific case, but not all are a safe bet.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/567402-fully-vaccinated-man-dies-of-covid-19-daughter
"A woman's fully vaccinated father died from COVID-19, with her saying she "can't imagine how much more he would have suffered if he had not gotten the vaccine.""
"According to Jan Patterson, an infectious disease specialist at UT Health, Rodriguez was right in her assessment, that her father would have suffered more if he had not been vaccinated."
Good example of why people will never admit the truth. Their conscience can't handle it. And that's why the government will likely get away with this, and why the truth will not be acknowledged until this generation has passed.
It's funny how we mock past generations for the things they did and allowed to happen, as if they were stupid. They weren't stupid, they just didn't want to admit the truth. Take asbestos for example. They knew good and well in the 1800s that it was killing people en masse, but the evidence was suppressed by the industry, and people were all too willing to let them because they simply didn't want to know the truth, because they had either taken part in it, or had sentenced themselves to an early death by ignoring the warnings.
I bet they feel like shit.
I doubt it knowing todays pushers of vax ! Sad but true
titsonritz
10-19-21, 20:38
I doubt it knowing todays pushers of vax ! Sad but true
Valid point.
Saw the response to the specific case, but not all are a safe bet.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/567402-fully-vaccinated-man-dies-of-covid-19-daughter
"A woman's fully vaccinated father died from COVID-19, with her saying she "can't imagine how much more he would have suffered if he had not gotten the vaccine.""
"According to Jan Patterson, an infectious disease specialist at UT Health, Rodriguez was right in her assessment, that her father would have suffered more if he had not been vaccinated."
Well, yeah he could have died or something...
Andy
Well, yeah he could have died or something...
Andy
That's where we are going...anyone who dies from covid with the full blown jabs has a much easier & peaceful death vs the non-jab death who linger / suffer, so get your damn boosters.
...and every death from here on out is now fault of the anti jabbers. Crazy pills.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/10/18/trump-surgeon-general-adams-blames-unvaccinated-for-colin-powell-death-didnt-take-the-proper-measures-to-lower-spread/
I doubt it knowing todays pushers of vax ! Sad but true
I there's a serious Jonestown vibe to all this. To be honest, I think there are a lot of bitter assholes out there who just want to die. But it's not enough to just take themselves out, they want to take other people with them, including and even especially the people closest to them. It grinds on them that there are people out there who find joy in living, and they want to snuff that out. I think that's the seminal psychological moment in people's conversion to liberalism. They hate themselves, they hate the world, and above all they hate anyone who doesn't share their disdain for life. I think that's why there's such a striking divide between political isles when it comes to the vaccine, lockdowns, mask mandates, etc. It's an ideological war between us and a bunch of suicidal/homicidal psychopaths who want to burn it all down, and the elite who are using them against us to achieve their ends.
Top that with so many that buy into this man is horrid and is the worse thing to the earth and babies are bad quit having them and cause carbon blah blah etc.
Yet they keep doing what they do and seem to have the latest iphone etc… most of them screaming from parents basement ! About how bad their parents are :) hahahhaha
but hey YOU are the problem !
like you said they have this disdain for life !
I there's a serious Jonestown vibe to all this. To be honest, I think there are a lot of bitter assholes out there who just want to die. But it's not enough to just take themselves out, they want to take other people with them, including and even especially the people closest to them. It grinds on them that there are people out there who find joy in living, and they want to snuff that out. I think that's the seminal psychological moment in people's conversion to liberalism. They hate themselves, they hate the world, and above all they hate anyone who doesn't share their disdain for life. I think that's why there's such a striking divide between political isles when it comes to the vaccine, lockdowns, mask mandates, etc. It's an ideological war between us and a bunch of suicidal/homicidal psychopaths who want to burn it all down, and the elite who are using them against us to achieve their ends.
Top that with so many that buy into this man is horrid and is the worse thing to the earth and babies are bad quit having them and cause carbon blah blah etc.
Yet they keep doing what they do and seem to have the latest iphone etc… most of them screaming from parents basement ! About how bad their parents are :) hahahhaha
but hey YOU are the problem !
like you said they have this disdain for life !
That's a good point.
Troutrunner
10-19-21, 23:43
Oh you betcha there's an argument! But let's just assume you're right. Let's assume that taking an experimental vaccine that already has a deadly track record will reduce your chances of death from covid. Considering what those chances are for the average person to begin with, we're talking the difference between infinitesimally small and slightly less than that. How's that for some advertising? "Oh just take this experimental sorta kinda FDA approved but not really vaccine, that's already injured and killed a bunch of people, and we promise your chances of dying from covid will go down a few hundredths of a percent."
Indeed, let's talk about boosters. Israel found them necessary for the general population at three months. Now one month after the booster they're finding a second booster necessary for most people, and are in fact about to make it mandatory for fully vaccinated status to get into public places. This ain't the freaking MMR vaccine! MMR has fewer reports of injuries in its entire life than any of the covid jabs in just a few months, and by a lot. And they aren't having to threaten people with being taken to a concentration camp to get them to get it either. Most do, some don't, and ya know what? Nobody cares because we don't have cases, because the MMR vaccine works! And you know what else? Two shots last us for our entire lives! Nobody is going to hunt you down and make you a criminal because you didn't get your monthly MMR booster. How you can even compare those two is so far beyond me I can only conclude you have your own agenda here.
I never said VAERS can be taken as fact, but to dismiss it is insanity. We're not talking a slight increase here. We're talking orders of magnitude more reports, in a time frame that's orders of magnitude smaller than any other widely distributed vaccine in history. And all amid reports from nurses around the country testifying that 1, they do not have time to use the system, 2, that the system often won't work, meaning they can't make the report, and 3, that their bosses are pressuring them not to use it. This dismissal of VARES is a propaganda line from the administration. Yea it has problems, and no that doesn't make the numbers any less alarming, especially since the problems with it are weighted in the direction of underreporting.
I think the hardest part is not conflating the actual science related to the disease and vaccine with the media tards and the government overreach. By taking each as its own entity it's easier to understand and make reasonable valid choices. We are in agreement on 2 out of the 3. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of posters on this forum seem to have a really high bar for the rest of the world, I wish I knew them, so, I could ascertain if they really are that high achieving. From my experience, I rarely find people who I think are truly exceptional. One thing I've learned as I aged is that everyone is winging it.
I've been pretty clear regarding my stance on the nuance associated with who needs a vaccine and who can do without. The broad sweeping statements don't take into account the risk factors and age. What is appropriate risk? You mentioned that the reduction wasn't worth it with the vaccine, well, it depends on who you are. Below are ages with hospitalization rates and death:
Age Hospitalization rate Death rate
20 .9% <.1%
30 2.7% <.1%
40 4.8% .2%
50 8.5 % .4%
60 15.5% 1.5%
70 24.4% 4.7%
80 31.7% 21.2%
I think we can agree that the younger you are the less risk you have. Which age gets peoples attention? Are we fine with 5 out of 100 people at age 40 being in the hospital or do we not sweat it until we're at 25% when we are 70? What rate of death do we accept? How many people are cool with missing work and not getting paid? What about the long term effects, you might be out of the hospital but you might not be back at work? There's more to this than death.
I don't have an agenda. I don't care if you get the vaccine or not. Don't care who dies of covid unless it's one of my close circle. At work, I admit them all day long and most are pretty scared. I do what I can.
I don't think anyone should be hunting people down, see we agree again. I also don't think people who don't understand statistical power in studies should be driving anybody away from vaccines because they read something on the internet and it worked on a few guys and this "doctor" said so. Doctors are people, I've worked with great ones and I've worked with people who were really good at test taking. Nurses are the same, some are good and some are conspiratorial whackos from the left and the right. Guess what, the population demo's cover all the jobs, it's just that some make more and some make less. They are all from the same melting pot of people.
Whether by design or due to multiple decisions along the way, the current hospital system is failing and being overrun. Everyone should care about this, you might not need it for covid but everyone comes calling someday.
Troutrunner
10-19-21, 23:49
Many doctors have had success with early intervention and yet they were shut down, and censured. The CDC, FDA, NIH, and corporate medicine/hospitals played politics at the expense of human life and have seriously damaged the credibility of the entire medical system/profession.
Wish they didn't shut them down so they could have kept doing the research. If they worked we'd know by now. Should have kept the talk open and we could have learned more. Hopefully, we will see more out soon stating that things work or don't work. But will larger studies be accepted or not if it says it works or not?
Just thinking I said MAN OH NO I meant birthing person OH WAIT that might alienate non birthers ummmm HUMAN ! OH darn that has MAN in it also WOMEN ! OH DARN once again MEN !!!
I am so insensitive I ummm I ummm I got no clue anymore what to say :) hahahahahahah
That's a good point.
I think the hardest part is not conflating the actual science related to the disease and vaccine with the media tards and the government overreach. By taking each as its own entity it's easier to understand and make reasonable valid choices. We are in agreement on 2 out of the 3. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of posters on this forum seem to have a really high bar for the rest of the world, I wish I knew them, so, I could ascertain if they really are that high achieving. From my experience, I rarely find people who I think are truly exceptional. One thing I've learned as I aged is that everyone is winging it.
I've been pretty clear regarding my stance on the nuance associated with who needs a vaccine and who can do without. The broad sweeping statements don't take into account the risk factors and age. What is appropriate risk? You mentioned that the reduction wasn't worth it with the vaccine, well, it depends on who you are. Below are ages with hospitalization rates and death:
Age Hospitalization rate Death rate
20 .9% <.1%
30 2.7% <.1%
40 4.8% .2%
50 8.5 % .4%
60 15.5% 1.5%
70 24.4% 4.7%
80 31.7% 21.2%
I think we can agree that the younger you are the less risk you have. Which age gets peoples attention? Are we fine with 5 out of 100 people at age 40 being in the hospital or do we not sweat it until we're at 25% when we are 70? What rate of death do we accept? How many people are cool with missing work and not getting paid? What about the long term effects, you might be out of the hospital but you might not be back at work? There's more to this than death.
I don't have an agenda. I don't care if you get the vaccine or not. Don't care who dies of covid unless it's one of my close circle. At work, I admit them all day long and most are pretty scared. I do what I can.
I don't think anyone should be hunting people down, see we agree again. I also don't think people who don't understand statistical power in studies should be driving anybody away from vaccines because they read something on the internet and it worked on a few guys and this "doctor" said so. Doctors are people, I've worked with great ones and I've worked with people who were really good at test taking. Nurses are the same, some are good and some are conspiratorial whackos from the left and the right. Guess what, the population demo's cover all the jobs, it's just that some make more and some make less. They are all from the same melting pot of people.
Whether by design or due to multiple decisions along the way, the current hospital system is failing and being overrun. Everyone should care about this, you might not need it for covid but everyone comes calling someday.
And how many of those deaths were actually due to covid, as opposed to the 2-6 comorbidities most of those senior citizens have who are dying "with covid." And how many of those who actually died of covid were in fact flu cases misdiagnosed as covid? Anyone who believes the flue was down 98% must have been born yesterday. And of those people who really, actually died of the real covid, how many of those were murdered for profit with ventilators and Remdesivir?
Sorry, but the overwhelming evidence is that covid poses less threat to everyone than the seasonal flu. We will never know what the actual numbers are, and that's obviously by design, but needless to say the data is extremely heavily weighted in favor of the grimmest possible outcome.
BUT, let's just play devil's advocate and say your numbers are right. And let's say that the vaccine does in fact give older folks some degree of protection. I say again, for how long? It's now an established fact that what little protection it gives is gone within three months, and then the booster is gone in a month, and we have no data for how long the second booster lasts because that's being rolled out in Israel as we speak. And we have no idea if a third booster will impart any immunity whatsoever, and for how long.
And we have no idea what the long term effects of the vaccines are. The injury rate might skyrocket at six months for all we know. What if young people getting it today don't make it past 40 because their hearts give out? There are things about this vaccine we won't know for years, but what's transpired thus far already is far less than encouraging.
Those are the facts. The vaccine might be able to promise a little protection for a disease that's hardly a threat, but for a very limited time, and at the price of having no idea what the actual risk is long term. Who in their right mind would take an experimental vaccine that's proven 100% to stop working in less than a year, even with boosters, for a virus that's probably damn near 100% survivable?
And what about countries like Israel that vaxxed and then triple vaxxed everyone and still have more covid than countries that didn't??? How can you possibly still argue for the efficacy of the vaccines after that? This isn't six months ago when we had no idea. The cat's out of the bag now, and they simply do not work, and even if they did, they don't work long enough to even be considered an option.
Troutrunner
10-20-21, 08:23
And how many of those deaths were actually due to covid, as opposed to the 2-6 comorbidities most of those senior citizens have who are dying "with covid." And how many of those who actually died of covid were in fact flu cases misdiagnosed as covid? Anyone who believes the flue was down 98% must have been born yesterday. And of those people who really, actually died of the real covid, how many of those were murdered for profit with ventilators and Remdesivir?
Sorry, but the overwhelming evidence is that covid poses less threat to everyone than the seasonal flu. We will never know what the actual numbers are, and that's obviously by design, but needless to say the data is extremely heavily weighted in favor of the grimmest possible outcome.
BUT, let's just play devil's advocate and say your numbers are right. And let's say that the vaccine does in fact give older folks some degree of protection. I say again, for how long? It's now an established fact that what little protection it gives is gone within three months, and then the booster is gone in a month, and we have no data for how long the second booster lasts because that's being rolled out in Israel as we speak. And we have no idea if a third booster will impart any immunity whatsoever, and for how long.
And we have no idea what the long term effects of the vaccines are. The injury rate might skyrocket at six months for all we know. What if young people getting it today don't make it past 40 because their hearts give out? There are things about this vaccine we won't know for years, but what's transpired thus far already is far less than encouraging.
Those are the facts. The vaccine might be able to promise a little protection for a disease that's hardly a threat, but for a very limited time, and at the price of having no idea what the actual risk is long term. Who in their right mind would take an experimental vaccine that's proven 100% to stop working in less than a year, even with boosters, for a virus that's probably damn near 100% survivable?
And what about countries like Israel that vaxxed and then triple vaxxed everyone and still have more covid than countries that didn't??? How can you possibly still argue for the efficacy of the vaccines after that? This isn't six months ago when we had no idea. The cat's out of the bag now, and they simply do not work, and even if they did, they don't work long enough to even be considered an option.
How many deaths were due to covid - MOST but contributed to by their other issues.
Minimal flu cases last year. We had a quad test and the flu just didn't pop.
Murdered for profit? LOL, this kind of stuff is fantasy. Hard to even respond to ridiculousness.
My hospital has 65 Covid patients, on new oxygen or on highflow. We have 8 that are intubated and will likely die. We only have 170 people in the hospital. Is 65 a lot?
How many deaths were due to covid - MOST but contributed to by their other issues.
Minimal flu cases last year. We had a quad test and the flu just didn't pop.
Murdered for profit? LOL, this kind of stuff is fantasy. Hard to even respond to ridiculousness.
My hospital has 65 Covid patients, on new oxygen or on highflow. We have 8 that are intubated and will likely die. We only have 170 people in the hospital. Is 65 a lot?
I know the feeling.
I don't know how, but it does in fact make some people bleed. It almost kind of looks like a hemorrhagic fever.
To the point of death despite mass transfusion? No.
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Except I didn't post anything proving your point.
You just didn’t know you did.
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You just didn’t know you did.
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Except I didn't.
Several were on here claiming when covid was listed as cause of death the deceased died of covid. Then the news started coming out that someone could die of some other ailment, but if they tested positive for covid then covid got listed as the cause of death. 2 of the more interesting involved an alcohol poisoning death in CO and the motorcycle death in FL(that one even has the ME stating that was what happened) where covid was listed as cause of death until media got involved and shamed the oh so ethical medical folks in to correcting the death certificates.
Except I didn't.
Several were on here claiming when covid was listed as cause of death the deceased died of covid. Then the news started coming out that someone could die of some other ailment, but if they tested positive for covid then covid got listed as the cause of death. 2 of the more interesting involved an alcohol poisoning death in CO and the motorcycle death in FL(that one even has the ME stating that was what happened) where covid was listed as cause of death until media got involved and shamed the oh so ethical medical folks in to correcting the death certificates.
Keep on keepin’ on.
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Adrenaline_6
10-20-21, 15:11
Except I didn't.
Several were on here claiming when covid was listed as cause of death the deceased died of covid. Then the news started coming out that someone could die of some other ailment, but if they tested positive for covid then covid got listed as the cause of death. 2 of the more interesting involved an alcohol poisoning death in CO and the motorcycle death in FL(that one even has the ME stating that was what happened) where covid was listed as cause of death until media got involved and shamed the oh so ethical medical folks in to correcting the death certificates.
I heard that motorcycle Covid death ridiculousness live on the radio. It was Orange County. They had evening Covid conferences on the radio daily. I heard it and couldn't believe I just heard what they said they did on public radio.
sidewaysil80
10-20-21, 15:35
Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but if Covaxin ever gets approved in US I could see myself getting that one. It’s the only traditional/inactivated virus vaccine, no synthetic BS, no screwing with mRNA, the only vaccine that is truly “no different then flu shot”.
Diamondback
10-20-21, 18:00
So the Old Crab got strongarmed into the J&J shot next Thursday.
Case data:
*Female over 65
*Hormone issues from no HRT after a hysterectomy 20 years ago
*Under monitoring by a cardiologist due to obesity-related cardiac issues
*Morbidly obese
*Lymphedema
*Bilateral osteoarthritis
*Borderline diabetic
*No known history of blood clots
*Family history of blood pressure issues
*Family history of thyroid issues, though not present in her
*Known allergies include penicillin, most bandage adhesives and all fish and shellfish
*Most normal OTC and prescription pain relievers ineffective; "all or nothing" pain sense
*Current medications include atorvastatin, metoprolol, amlodipine, isosorbide, lisinopril
*OTC supplements include D3, calcium-magnesium, turmeric
Question: What do I need to watch for and expect with her?
To the point of death despite mass transfusion? No.
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That I do not know. The cases I'm aware of the people didn't die. They said that the clots caused bruising, which then caused bleeding. I mean, if it were bad enough I'm sure a person could bleed to death internally from it. I guess we're just lucky that so far that hasn't happened.
Troutrunner
10-20-21, 18:42
So the Old Crab got strongarmed into the J&J shot next Thursday.
Case data:
*Female over 65
*Hormone issues from no HRT after a hysterectomy 20 years ago
*Under monitoring by a cardiologist due to obesity-related cardiac issues
*Morbidly obese
*Lymphedema
*Bilateral osteoarthritis
*Borderline diabetic
*No known history of blood clots
*Family history of blood pressure issues
*Family history of thyroid issues, though not present in her
*Known allergies include penicillin, most bandage adhesives and all fish and shellfish
*Most normal OTC and prescription pain relievers ineffective; "all or nothing" pain sense
*Current medications include atorvastatin, metoprolol, amlodipine, isosorbide, lisinopril
*OTC supplements include D3, calcium-magnesium, turmeric
Question: What do I need to watch for and expect with her?
Just the usual sore arm and allergic reaction stuff (but if never had problems before with shots, probably won't this time).
She sounds like a person who would benefit from having the vaccine. Good job getting it.
Hospitals now accepting antibodies instead of vax
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/athena-thorne/2021/10/19/hospitals-follow-the-science-accept-natural-immunity-as-reason-to-defer-vaccine-mandates-n1525108
Troutrunner
10-20-21, 18:58
Hospitals now accepting antibodies instead of vax
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/athena-thorne/2021/10/19/hospitals-follow-the-science-accept-natural-immunity-as-reason-to-defer-vaccine-mandates-n1525108
That's a good step!
That I do not know. The cases I'm aware of the people didn't die. They said that the clots caused bruising, which then caused bleeding. I mean, if it were bad enough I'm sure a person could bleed to death internally from it. I guess we're just lucky that so far that hasn't happened.
Then it’s asinine to suggest the death was vaccine-related.
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Then it’s asinine to suggest the death was vaccine-related.
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I said the cases I'M aware of. I didn't say it wasn't possible that someone did end up dying from it that I didn't hear about. The only thing that's asinine is your aggression and seeming inability to have a polite discussion. Stop dictating to everyone how the cow at the cabbage and demanding to have your opinions accepted as fact.
I said the cases I'M aware of. I didn't say it wasn't possible that someone did end up dying from it that I didn't hear about. The only thing that's asinine is your aggression and seeming inability to have a polite discussion. Stop dictating to everyone how the cow at the cabbage and demanding to have your opinions accepted as fact.
He's the smartest man in the room & will ALWAYS have the last reply...how dare you challenge the superior intellect?? Best to not engage in a back & forth with that one as it will go nowhere. Keep on Keep'n!!
Troutrunner
10-20-21, 20:03
I think this guy speaks for a lot of us reasonable people. He said what I've been trying to say without me even knowing it.
Please take the time to watch the whole thing, I think people can gain some insight into their own thinking and hopefully maybe change some behaviors. He's a doc and seem to be pretty good on understanding the real science and the political aspects in play.
His YouTube is ZDoggMD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZIJ0ekD_HE&t=978s
I said the cases I'M aware of. I didn't say it wasn't possible that someone did end up dying from it that I didn't hear about. The only thing that's asinine is your aggression and seeming inability to have a polite discussion. Stop dictating to everyone how the cow at the cabbage and demanding to have your opinions accepted as fact.
Again, you know nothing of the case, and the person claiming they are related has zero information about details.
It’s asinine to suggest they are related, especially with zero information and the inability to answer basic questions. It isn’t “opinion”, it’s an unknown. I could as easily say she drank water that day, therefore it caused her death.
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Again, you know nothing of the case, and the person claiming they are related has zero information about details.
It’s asinine to suggest they are related, especially with zero information and the inability to answer basic questions. It isn’t “opinion”, it’s an unknown. I could as easily say she drank water that day, therefore it caused her death.
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No what's asinine is you made a blanket assertion that is false, trying to say something was impossible and therefore must be false, despite you yourself having zero information. I'm not say what he said is true, as I have no way of knowing, but what you said is demonstrably false. Bleeding can in fact be a side effect of the bruising from the clots. One doctor in GB said he's seen patients that almost resemble some kind of hemorrhagic fever. Not a giant leap to consider the possibility that that might actually be capable of causing a death. On the contrary, it would be asinine to assume that it couldn't, and probably is reasonable to assume that it's potentially deadly, regardless of whether a death has in fact already occurred or not.
And also maybe consider that these non lethal cases and the alleged lethal case previously mentioned could just be the canary in the coal mine. If we start triple and quadruple vaxxing everyone, who knows what might happen.
Troutrunner
10-20-21, 22:09
No what's asinine is you made a blanket assertion that is false, trying to say something was impossible and therefore must be false, despite you yourself having zero information. I'm not say what he said is true, as I have no way of knowing, but what you said is demonstrably false. Bleeding can in fact be a side effect of the bruising from the clots. One doctor in GB said he's seen patients that almost resemble some kind of hemorrhagic fever. Not a giant leap to consider the possibility that that might actually be capable of causing a death. On the contrary, it would be asinine to assume that it couldn't, and probably is reasonable to assume that it's potentially deadly, regardless of whether a death has in fact already occurred or not.
And also maybe consider that these non lethal cases and the alleged lethal case previously mentioned could just be the canary in the coal mine. If we start triple and quadruple vaxxing everyone, who knows what might happen.
I think what you are attempting to speak about is Vaccine Induced Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia (VITT). Extremely rare and mostly related to the AstraZeneca/Covishield shot which we don't use in the USA. Usually occurred after the first shot. Not likely to be on successive shots. This is the J&J clot issue that gave it the pause. Even more rare with the J&J than the Covishield.
But of course, for the most rare phenomenons the internet always says it has seen at least two of them on Tuesday and six on Sunday.
No what's asinine is you made a blanket assertion that is false, trying to say something was impossible and therefore must be false, despite you yourself having zero information. I'm not say what he said is true, as I have no way of knowing, but what you said is demonstrably false. Bleeding can in fact be a side effect of the bruising from the clots. One doctor in GB said he's seen patients that almost resemble some kind of hemorrhagic fever. Not a giant leap to consider the possibility that that might actually be capable of causing a death. On the contrary, it would be asinine to assume that it couldn't, and probably is reasonable to assume that it's potentially deadly, regardless of whether a death has in fact already occurred or not.
And also maybe consider that these non lethal cases and the alleged lethal case previously mentioned could just be the canary in the coal mine. If we start triple and quadruple vaxxing everyone, who knows what might happen.
You didn’t pay very close attention, did you? You continue to put words in my mouth.
Again, it’s asinine to presume the two are related without information. The person that made the statement had no information, but your position is to believe him or state it’s “possible” because it supports your agenda. That’s your biggest problem, you’re not an objective human being.
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I think what you are attempting to speak about is Vaccine Induced Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia (VITT). Extremely rare and mostly related to the AstraZeneca/Covishield shot which we don't use in the USA. Usually occurred after the first shot. Not likely to be on successive shots. This is the J&J clot issue that gave it the pause. Even more rare with the J&J than the Covishield.
But of course, for the most rare phenomenons the internet always says it has seen at least two of them on Tuesday and six on Sunday.
Mostly a problem in GB from what I gathered from the article on it. Not sure what the predominant vaccine is over there. The assertion that you're safe after the first shot doesn't seem to hold water though because they're way ahead of us on the vaccine schedule.
The cases I know about in the US that are verified, I can't remember what brand was involved.
Don't know what the technical term is, don't care. All I know is at no point in the past have I ever heard of vaccines causing people to start bleeding from random bodily orifices.
Troutrunner
10-20-21, 22:45
Mostly a problem in GB from what I gathered from the article on it. Not sure what the predominant vaccine is over there. The assertion that you're safe after the first shot doesn't seem to hold water though because they're way ahead of us on the vaccine schedule.
The cases I know about in the US that are verified, I can't remember what brand was involved.
Don't know what the technical term is, don't care. All I know is at no point in the past have I ever heard of vaccines causing people to start bleeding from random bodily orifices.
They used all of the vaccines. Only with the two I mentioned were this issue. If you are going to argue about problems and claim things to be factual, it seems that using the technical terms would be a good start and help the people you are trying to convince understand that you know what you're talking about.
If you are afraid of VITT, get the mRNA shots (pfizer or moderna).
sidewaysil80
10-20-21, 23:02
If you are afraid of VITT, get the mRNA shots (pfizer or moderna).
Then there is the whole swelling of the heart thing with mRNA.
Troutrunner
10-20-21, 23:24
Then there is the whole swelling of the heart thing with mRNA.
Pretty much only in the 16-29 year old males at again pretty low numbers. If that's not you then you are fine or go with the J&J.
Covid causes myocarditis at much higher rates than the shot. Newsflash, people get myocarditis without vaccines or covid. It's been going on for a very long time.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/sweden-suspends-moderna-shot-indefinitely-after-vaxxed-patients-develop-crippling-heart
Sweden Suspends Moderna Shot Indefinitely After Vaxxed Patients Develop Crippling Heart Condition
My wife and I just got our Moderna COVID-19 booster shots today. We both just turned 70. FYI, here is some very interesting information on the Covid vaccine by Dr. Merkle of "Take 2 Healthcare" in Dayton, Ohio.
https://take2healthcare.com/radio-shows/
66689
But at least if someone experiences sudden death their family can rest well knowing their loved one “did their part”.
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This is a very good critique of how covid was mishandled from the beginning. While I don't agree with him on the vaccine advice, I do agree with his overall analysis.
https://youtu.be/zG7XZ2JXZqY
66689
But at least if someone experiences sudden death their family can rest well knowing their loved one “did their part”.
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Don't forget that it "would have been much worse" if they weren't vaxxed.
Pretty much only in the 16-29 year old males at again pretty low numbers. If that's not you then you are fine or go with the J&J.
Covid causes myocarditis at much higher rates than the shot. Newsflash, people get myocarditis without vaccines or covid. It's been going on for a very long time.I was following that but then why are some countries limiting 16-29 year olds from getting the vaccine or getting both shots? If covid causes more then shouldn't there be even more reason to vaccinate kids since it would reduce their chances of myocarditis?
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66689A lot of drugs have that. It's a catchall
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Troutrunner
10-23-21, 16:52
I was following that but then why are some countries limiting 16-29 year olds from getting the vaccine or getting both shots? If covid causes more then shouldn't there be even more reason to vaccinate kids since it would reduce their chances of myocarditis?
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It goes back to risk assessment. I should have been more clear.
That age group 16-29 is low risk for getting severe covid and for getting myocarditis from covid. The median age for getting myocarditis from covid is 54yo and the overall numbers for myocarditis from covid are 15 times more than baseline. At ages over 29yo, you are out of the 16-29 risk from the shot and the shot is more protective, so, you don't get severe covid or myocarditis.
Falls in line with my original recommendations. If you are older, or have risk factors, you are better off with the shot. If you are a kid, or pretty young and healthy, it is harder for me to compel someone to get the shot. That being said, I see people in their 20's with severe Rona (mostly kinda chunky at least).
Again, each shot has it's own reasons to get and each personal case requires it's own reasoning.
sandsunsurf
10-23-21, 18:32
This is a very good critique of how covid was mishandled from the beginning. While I don't agree with him on the vaccine advice, I do agree with his overall analysis.
https://youtu.be/zG7XZ2JXZqY
Interesting how you think Trump mishandled the virus from the beginning but still choose to support him.
Interesting how you think Trump mishandled the virus from the beginning but still choose to support him.
2020 was a vote for America or this leftist, marxist, new world disorder you're seeing play out before your very eyes. There were 2 choices.
Interesting how you think Trump mishandled the virus from the beginning but still choose to support him.
Anyone with a brain would have predicted the dumpster fire of Biden's Covid "plan". TDS was and remains a far greater threat to us than Covid.
Andy
Anyone with a brain would have predicted the dumpster fire of Biden's Covid "plan". TDS was and remains a far greater threat to us than Covid.
Andy
There you go thinking very clearly and expressing it concisely. You must be one of those humans with a soul. [emoji6]
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2020 was a vote for America or this leftist, marxist, new world disorder you're seeing play out before your very eyes. There were 2 choices.
You’re g0dd8mned right. Anyone who still cannot see this is not worth your time. They are truly lost. Let the dead bury the dead.
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A lot of drugs have that. It's a catchall
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Yep. And a lot of drugs I do not take. [emoji897]
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Yep. And a lot of drugs I do not take. [emoji897]
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkParty pooper!
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2020 was a vote for America or this leftist, marxist, new world disorder you're seeing play out before your very eyes. There were 2 choices.
Absolutely spot on! Like a Democheat administration would have handled a once-in-a-century pandemic of this scale any better. NO ONE knew what they were dealing with or what was coming. Trump may have had his faults but that wasn't one of them.
Besides, he made the mistake of listening to shitheads like that little bastard Fauci, the snake-in-the-grass who had a hand in developing this crap to begin with.
sandsunsurf
10-24-21, 10:49
2020 was a vote for America or this leftist, marxist, new world disorder you're seeing play out before your very eyes. There were 2 choices.
Fair enough. I misunderstood where you were coming from in regards to how Covid was mishandled.
I think it’s important to remember that the vaccines that are available and that you get to choose from are here because of one of the most successful government operations in the 21st century- Operation Warp Speed.
Trump spearheaded Operation Warp Speed and by having the government take the financial risk away from the companies, they were able to develop and refine multiple successful vaccines in record time. Trump probably should have ridden this success to reelection, but alas his ego got him distracted by other stuff.
I'll repeat;
2020 was a vote for America or this leftist, marxist, new world disorder you're seeing play out before your very eyes. Those were the only 2 choices.
It was not about personality or tweets.
The global elites are want to bring down America and Trump is the only one in the entire government who is fighting them and who is fighting for America first.
Trump spearheaded Operation Warp Speed and by having the government take the financial risk away from the companies, they were able to develop and refine multiple successful vaccines in record time.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/982/077/839.png
I can’t imagine why anyone would get an mRNA vaccine.
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 05:30
I can’t imagine why anyone would get an mRNA vaccine.
There have been 6.87 billion vaccines given, amazing that there is anyone left on earth (sarcasm). Many of those included mRNA vaccines.
The reason to get it is to avoid severe disease and to make Covid-19 endemic and not a pandemic. Portugal is basically 100% vaccinated after a very severe spike in disease. They are doing great.
Imagination is all the static people are causing regarding cloth masks and fear of vaccines, including the mRNA variety. It's ok to be against government over reach/control while being smart about getting the vaccine. As Gutfeld says, don't be trapped by the prison of two ideas. You have more choices than just two.
Averageman
10-25-21, 06:12
The reason to get it is to avoid severe disease and to make Covid-19 endemic and not a pandemic. Portugal is basically 100% vaccinated after a very severe spike in disease. They are doing great.
No shot, no mask, no social distancing and I'm just great!
Why should I get your shot when I've survived this long without it and likely have gained natural immunity by now?
6.87 Billion? Well to quote my Mom if everyone jumped off a cliff does that mean you have to?
The reason to get it is to avoid severe disease and to make Covid-19 endemic and not a pandemic. Portugal is basically 100% vaccinated after a very severe spike in disease. They are doing great.
Portugal is considered the most vaccinated country, but they are 85-90%. They are quite vaccinated, have fairly severe restrictions, and Covid cases are slacking.
Alabama is one of the least vaccinated states, we may as well have no restrictions, and Covid cases are slacking.
You cannot make a case for or against something with a small sample size.
Andy
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 08:42
No shot, no mask, no social distancing and I'm just great!
Why should I get your shot when I've survived this long without it and likely have gained natural immunity by now?
6.87 Billion? Well to quote my Mom if everyone jumped off a cliff does that mean you have to?
Since you started this thread with a question, then I would ad "No Europe Trip For Work" to your list. Looks like you've made your choice.
Everyone's drinking water and breathing air, hope that doesn't put you in conflict with mommy. Lot's of people get sick from drinking water, better throw it all out as being dangerous. Or maybe we could do something to make it safer.
Go get the antibody test, then you'll know if you have natural immunity. But you won't, it's much easier to claim some disturbing moral high ground off of whacko "science" and fear.
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 08:55
Portugal is considered the most vaccinated country, but they are 85-90%. They are quite vaccinated, have fairly severe restrictions, and Covid cases are slacking.
Alabama is one of the least vaccinated states, we may as well have no restrictions, and Covid cases are slacking.
You cannot make a case for or against something with a small sample size.
Andy
Portugal - Actually 98% of those eligible, over 12yo, are vaccinated. Add back in the youths under 12 and you drop it to 86%. 10.3 million people in Portugal. They had a huge spike from late 2020 to early 2021, they had a very small bump this fall 2021. In that second bump, they were not getting as many hospitalizations and very few deaths. You have to attribute that to the jab and natural immunity. Can't just throw out the jab.
Alabama - 5.1 million people in Alabama. Huge spikes in early 2021 and fall 2021, lots of hospitalizations and deaths. Numbers are going down now, like they did with the burn in India. Natural immunity works but its a real bitch to get there and doesn't decrease hospitalizations and deaths.
These aren't true studies as there aren't controls and randomization and I expect the groups to be different in health status, population demos. We can only look at the them after the fact and infer that difference occurred due to changes in management. I wouldn't claim 10.3 and 5.1 million people to be a small sample size.
We all have a date with Rona, do you want to do it on her terms or yours? Get the vax and you are pushing the agenda instead of accepting it.
There have been 6.87 billion vaccines given, amazing that there is anyone left on earth (sarcasm). Many of those included mRNA vaccines.
The reason to get it is to avoid severe disease and to make Covid-19 endemic and not a pandemic. Portugal is basically 100% vaccinated after a very severe spike in disease. They are doing great.
Imagination is all the static people are causing regarding cloth masks and fear of vaccines, including the mRNA variety. It's ok to be against government over reach/control while being smart about getting the vaccine. As Gutfeld says, don't be trapped by the prison of two ideas. You have more choices than just two.
Don't count your chickens there bud. The last thing I want is for vaxxed people to start dying because, save for one person, everyone I care about in this world already took it.
And it's also extremely short sighted to just assume they're going to keel over and that's it. The pharmaceutical industry doesn't like killing its customers outright. Kind of hard to collect the bill from a dead man.
The more likely scenario we're looking at here is that these people are going to be henceforth 100% reliant on these vaccines to stay alive, guaranteeing massive profits for the drug companies in perpetuity.
Then you go from people grudgingly taking the vaccine to stampeding and trampling each other to get the latest booster. If you start seeing variants that have a high death rate in vaccinated populations, you bet that's where we're headed. And these are companies who have a history of price gouging for life saving medicines, so don't think for one minute that they're not going to take advantage of people.
Death isn't what those people need to be worried about right now. What they need to be worried about is the fact that it's looking like they just signed up for a subscription service they can't cancel. Maybe ever.
And they need to start thinking about the lengths they might go to in order to stay in the good graces of the establishment, lest their subscription get cancelled because their social credit score got too low. We're already there. Small business is just about ready to stick a fork in, and the only employers left are about to be the likes of Amazon and Walmart. Say the wrong thing, post the wrong thing, wear the wrong color hat...poof, there goes your insurance, and your access to boosters along with it.
Since you started this thread with a question, then I would ad "No Europe Trip For Work" to your list. Looks like you've made your choice.
Everyone's drinking water and breathing air, hope that doesn't put you in conflict with mommy. Lot's of people get sick from drinking water, better throw it all out as being dangerous. Or maybe we could do something to make it safer.
Go get the antibody test, then you'll know if you have natural immunity. But you won't, it's much easier to claim some disturbing moral high ground off of whacko "science" and fear.
I see the mask is coming off.
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 10:00
Don't count your chickens there bud. The last thing I want is for vaxxed people to start dying because, save for one person, everyone I care about in this world already took it.
And it's also extremely short sighted to just assume they're going to keel over and that's it. The pharmaceutical industry doesn't like killing its customers outright. Kind of hard to collect the bill from a dead man.
The more likely scenario we're looking at here is that these people are going to be henceforth 100% reliant on these vaccines to stay alive, guaranteeing massive profits for the drug companies in perpetuity.
Then you go from people grudgingly taking the vaccine to stampeding and trampling each other to get the latest booster. If you start seeing variants that have a high death rate in vaccinated populations, you bet that's where we're headed. And these are companies who have a history of price gouging for life saving medicines, so don't think for one minute that they're not going to take advantage of people.
Death isn't what those people need to be worried about right now. What they need to be worried about is the fact that it's looking like they just signed up for a subscription service they can't cancel. Maybe ever.
And they need to start thinking about the lengths they might go to in order to stay in the good graces of the establishment, lest their subscription get cancelled because their social credit score got too low. We're already there. Small business is just about ready to stick a fork in, and the only employers left are about to be the likes of Amazon and Walmart. Say the wrong thing, post the wrong thing, wear the wrong color hat...poof, there goes your insurance, and your access to boosters along with it.
Why do we have boosters? Because some subsets of people with weak immune systems did not achieve memory immunity. Everything you wrote is fantasy. If you can achieve memory immunity from the first two shots then you don't need the booster. Older people and the immunocompromised didn't get the full effect on the first rounds.
We are not seeing high death rates in the current variants for vaccinated people. It's quite the opposite. Fantasy allows you to take the current truths and turn it into something that will be a complete turnaround.
I'd love to hear the mechanism that requires the body to need the vax. Let's hear it. Fantasy.
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 10:01
I see the mask is coming off.
Me too, I haven't worn one in months except at work.
ps. I know that's not what you meant.
Why do we have boosters? Because some subsets of people with weak immune systems did not achieve memory immunity. Everything you wrote is fantasy. If you can achieve memory immunity from the first two shots then you don't need the booster. Older people and the immunocompromised didn't get the full effect on the first rounds.
We are not seeing high death rates in the current variants for vaccinated people. It's quite the opposite. Fantasy allows you to take the current truths and turn it into something that will be a complete turnaround.
I'd love to hear the mechanism that requires the body to need the vax. Let's hear it. Fantasy.
Oh please. Entire nations are not "subsets" of people. And don't think that shit isn't coming to the US in a few months.
The handwriting is on the wall, you just refuse to acknowledge it.
There have been 6.87 billion vaccines given, amazing that there is anyone left on earth (sarcasm). Many of those included mRNA vaccines.
Perhaps you can point them out. From what I read on the internet, mRNA vaccines were first approved in humans in 2020 under emergency authorization.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/7262d2d8c4a4bf3c0f162fdbd3ad6c12.png
Not saying this is the case, but if you were the vaccine companies, would you consider hiring people to get on the different internet forums and social media platforms to shill your products?
Oh please. Entire nations are not "subsets" of people. And don't think that shit isn't coming to the US in a few months.
The handwriting is on the wall, you just refuse to acknowledge it.
Yup...don't get your booster / boosters then you are now considered 100% unvaccinated. (Govern me, Harder Daddy!!)
We know this isn't about health or the nation's well being when you watch what is happening on the southern border...scary times.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/f66cb855e0029a9324caf9be006c454f.jpg
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SomeOtherGuy
10-25-21, 13:12
Not saying this is the case, but if you were the vaccine companies, would you consider hiring people to get on the different internet forums and social media platforms to shill your products?
If they did, it wouldn't be in even the top 1000 of the most dishonest and unethical things they've done.
Averageman
10-25-21, 13:26
Since you started this thread with a question, then I would ad "No Europe Trip For Work" to your list. Looks like you've made your choice.
Everyone's drinking water and breathing air, hope that doesn't put you in conflict with mommy. Lot's of people get sick from drinking water, better throw it all out as being dangerous. Or maybe we could do something to make it safer.
Go get the antibody test, then you'll know if you have natural immunity. But you won't, it's much easier to claim some disturbing moral high ground off of whacko "science" and fear.
I had no intentions to ever go to Europe again, having lived there 9 years, I've had enough thank you.
May I ask you foir a second of nonbiased opinion, if I dont have the antibodies, why haven't I had the Covid? 18 or so months, I mean one would think.
I have every intention of gaining a yellow WHO pass, I'm questioning the shot though.
I'm not sure why you have to Fauci my post but???
I had no intentions to ever go to Europe again, having lived there 9 years, I've had enough thank you.
May I ask you foir a second of nonbiased opinion, if I dont have the antibodies, why haven't I had the Covid? 18 or so months, I mean one would think.
I have every intention of gaining a yellow WHO pass, I'm questioning the shot though.
I'm not sure why you have to Fauci my post but???
The evidence is becoming overwhelming that it's been here way longer than that.
Averageman
10-25-21, 14:10
The evidence is becoming overwhelming that it's been here way longer than that.
Well Okie I remember discussing this with my Son, the Christmas before last, so I guess your right.
What killed it for me was the speed at which it went from theory to "Here it is", so I was suspicious, then Fauci began his ponzi scheme and I spotted that quickly (BTW the NIH said, Yes we did fund gain of function research) I can smell a huckster a mile away. Then both Biden and Harris throw shade on taking the vaccine, get elected and start demanding we all take the shot.
Now they've become tyranical about it.
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 14:44
Oh please. Entire nations are not "subsets" of people. And don't think that shit isn't coming to the US in a few months.
The handwriting is on the wall, you just refuse to acknowledge it.
The current use for boosters is only for the vulnerable in the USA and most other countries. I've said this already. I'm in healthcare and haven't and don't plan to get the booster. I'm good to go with memory immunity. I don't believe in it being a mandate.
Austria and Croatia are requiring a booster for TRAVELERS but giving it to the vulnerable currently. Keeping the conversation regarding just vaccines is tough with this crowd, herding cats, always bringing up something else unrelated but never giving any proof.
Stop reading the handwriting on the wall and try to educate yourself. You've already admitted in this thread that you don't know, understand, or want to know the technical side of these problems. Then just let the rest of us who are SME's have a normal conversation about it. Step out and just listen for a change. I know this last part will get you all REEEEEEEEE!!!! So be it.
Perhaps you can point them out. From what I read on the internet, mRNA vaccines were first approved in humans in 2020 under emergency authorization.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/7262d2d8c4a4bf3c0f162fdbd3ad6c12.png
Ok, point to about 7 out of every ten people you see. Depending on your geographic location, you could point to more or less people in those ten. The 6.87 billion vaccine counts the mRNA doses as two and J&J as one. That's a lot of doses and yet, I haven't seen any of these so called adverse reactions or deaths in the the real world. Not saying they don't happen, just that it is rare. Good chart showing that they have been working on this for a long time.
Not saying this is the case, but if you were the vaccine companies, would you consider hiring people to get on the different internet forums and social media platforms to shill your products?
That could happen, but the inference, if you're pointing to me, since, I'm the most recent poster, would require the vaccine companies to see into the future, since, I've been a member since Jul 2009, about 6 years before you. If you see recent membership, yes, that could be a thing.
Yup...don't get your booster / boosters then you are now considered 100% unvaccinated. (Govern me, Harder Daddy!!)
We know this isn't about health or the nation's well being when you watch what is happening on the southern border...scary times.
Again, I'm not for mandates or being governed harder, lol. Yes, the border is a complete mess, I'm with you. Keeping the discussion rational and related to the issue at hand, vaccines, even that crazy lady that runs the CDC stated this weekend that there were no plans to claim people without boosters as unvaccinated. My stance, as always, is choose what you want to do, but do it with real data and not fantasy concerns.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211025/f66cb855e0029a9324caf9be006c454f.jpg
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Insert meme of some guy with high flow prongs in his nose, lines in his arms, family not allowed to visit, and him clutching a paper saying he's unvaxxed and proud of it. LOL.
This inability to rationally evaluate the data while being blinded by tribalism and hatred of where the data may of come from is the same thought process that keeps our gun groups from getting ahead. I vote like the majority on this forum, yet, here you are attacking one of your own.
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 15:00
I had no intentions to ever go to Europe again, having lived there 9 years, I've had enough thank you.
May I ask you foir a second of nonbiased opinion, if I dont have the antibodies, why haven't I had the Covid? 18 or so months, I mean one would think.
I have every intention of gaining a yellow WHO pass, I'm questioning the shot though.
I'm not sure why you have to Fauci my post but???
Where do you live, what are your habits? Lots can go into it. There is barely anyone that hasn't had a portion of their life changed due to this virus. I hope that those of us that have not had symptoms actually got it but it was ridiculously mild. That would be good for everyone. Like I said, we all have a date with the Rona, do you want it on her terms or yours.
I can see your response as, "if it was so weak for some people why do I need the vaccine! Reee!!". Well, because you don't know your reaction and there are a lot op people who have been surprisingly made sick from it. Hospitals have staffing issues and lots of covid so it makes the place a living hell. We have threads on here talking about quitting your job for your health, maybe all the nurses and docs should quit, where would we be then.
I'm not a fan of Fauci. Never have been. The whole mask fiasco was stupid and the way they have handled the kids has been abhorrent. You again, by inferring I'm like him, prove that you are blinded by your ability to see through your hate. I'm more like you and not close to him in any way. It's clouding your ability to comprehend and make logical choices. When you don't have the facts, you must revert to ad hominem attacks. Weak argument. Instead, drop facts, win the argument, persuade people.
I have failed some in the "fight" of this thread as well. Mea Culpa.
I'm spending too much time on a group that doesn't get it (regarding the vaccines, not the overstep of government) and never will. Was hoping there might be a few I could sway but I think I've dropped enough rational thought and facts for the time being.
Well Okie I remember discussing this with my Son, the Christmas before last, so I guess your right.
What killed it for me was the speed at which it went from theory to "Here it is", so I was suspicious, then Fauci began his ponzi scheme and I spotted that quickly (BTW the NIH said, Yes we did fund gain of function research) I can smell a huckster a mile away. Then both Biden and Harris throw shade on taking the vaccine, get elected and start demanding we all take the shot.
Now they've become tyranical about it.
I think it started in the US in the NE in the Spring of 2019, and then probably spread to China via the military games, if it wasn't already there by that time to begin with.
Spring 2019, mysterious respiratory syndrome first noticed in the Great Lakes region.
Summer 2019, China starts stockpiling abnormally high numbers of PCR tests.
Fall 2019, it's now an epidemic in the US and is spreading into Canada. They blame it on vaping, despite many patients denying having used a vape.
September 2019, the overnight market melts down, for which we still have no explanation.
September 2019, Trump orders vaccine rapid development task force to be assembled.
October 2019, Event 201 takes place.
November 2019, military games, China increases orders yet again for PCR tests.
November 2019, first cases of covid in China are noticed.
Not hard to put the pieces together at this point.
It goes back to risk assessment. I should have been more clear.
That age group 16-29 is low risk for getting severe covid and for getting myocarditis from covid. The median age for getting myocarditis from covid is 54yo and the overall numbers for myocarditis from covid are 15 times more than baseline. At ages over 29yo, you are out of the 16-29 risk from the shot and the shot is more protective, so, you don't get severe covid or myocarditis.
Falls in line with my original recommendations. If you are older, or have risk factors, you are better off with the shot. If you are a kid, or pretty young and healthy, it is harder for me to compel someone to get the shot. That being said, I see people in their 20's with severe Rona (mostly kinda chunky at least).
Again, each shot has it's own reasons to get and each personal case requires it's own reasoning.
This wasn't you, I heard it before. But things like that is what drives me nuts and makes people mistrustful. The common phrase is that covid causes more myocarditis than the vaccine when talking about those under 30. But in reality it doesn't. They're taking a specific subset of people and attributing the risks of a different subset of people.
In reality this should read something like....if you're under 30 you have a low chance of getting severe COVID or myocarditis. Over 30 the older you are the higher the chance of getting myocarditis from COVID.
Facts keep getting twisted or tweaked to constantly be in favor of vaccines. It's one thing to be in favor and another to bend the truth to fit.
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Troutrunner
10-25-21, 15:31
This wasn't you, I heard it before. But things like that is what drives me nuts and makes people mistrustful. The common phrase is that covid causes more myocarditis than the vaccine when talking about those under 30. But in reality it doesn't. They're taking a specific subset of people and attributing the risks of a different subset of people.
In reality this should read something like....if you're under 30 you have a low chance of getting severe COVID or myocarditis. Over 30 the older you are the higher the chance of getting myocarditis from COVID.
Facts keep getting twisted or tweaked to constantly be in favor of vaccines. It's one thing to be in favor and another to bend the truth to fit.
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Fair enough and I agree with your assessment and the way people sway things.
My kids aren't vaccinated, they didn't want to and I didn't see the risk. As you age, it's better to be vaccinated.
Where do you live, what are your habits? Lots can go into it. There is barely anyone that hasn't had a portion of their life changed due to this virus. I hope that those of us that have not had symptoms actually got it but it was ridiculously mild. That would be good for everyone. Like I said, we all have a date with the Rona, do you want it on her terms or yours.
I can see your response as, "if it was so weak for some people why do I need the vaccine! Reee!!". Well, because you don't know your reaction and there are a lot op people who have been surprisingly made sick from it. Hospitals have staffing issues and lots of covid so it makes the place a living hell. We have threads on here talking about quitting your job for your health, maybe all the nurses and docs should quit, where would we be then.
I'm not a fan of Fauci. Never have been. The whole mask fiasco was stupid and the way they have handled the kids has been abhorrent. You again, by inferring I'm like him, prove that you are blinded by your ability to see through your hate. I'm more like you and not close to him in any way. It's clouding your ability to comprehend and make logical choices. When you don't have the facts, you must revert to ad hominem attacks. Weak argument. Instead, drop facts, win the argument, persuade people.
I have failed some in the "fight" of this thread as well. Mea Culpa.
I'm spending too much time on a group that doesn't get it (regarding the vaccines, not the overstep of government) and never will. Was hoping there might be a few I could sway but I think I've dropped enough rational thought and facts for the time being.
Told you, you wouldn’t get anywhere. Herding cats is absolutely right. I was the devil for a long time for dispelling bullshit, and had been called every name in the book while they change the subject or say something irrelevant though, like you, I don’t support vaccine mandates and did not get vaccinated due to my low risk of severe disease. I’ve had COVID twice, I’m exposed to it constantly in the hospital setting, and I’ll likely get it again when my antibodies wane.
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Insert meme of some guy with high flow prongs in his nose, lines in his arms, family not allowed to visit, and him clutching a paper saying he's unvaxxed and proud of it. LOL.
Probably about as funny as this guy gasping for his last breath clutching a piece of paper saying he was vaxxed and proud.
I can kind of understand the daughter saying "not as bad as"(particularly if she brow beat him since early 2020 and made his life miserable), but the science pro chiming in with it was better? At the end of the day, neither daughter nor pro has rode it to the end so how the hell would they know?
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/567402-fully-vaccinated-man-dies-of-covid-19-daughter
Probably about as funny as this guy gasping for his last breath clutching a piece of paper saying he was vaxxed and proud.
I can kind of understand the daughter saying "not as bad as"(particularly if she brow beat him since early 2020 and made his life miserable), but the science pro chiming in with it was better? At the end of the day, neither daughter nor pro has rode it to the end so how the hell would they know?
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/567402-fully-vaccinated-man-dies-of-covid-19-daughter
That would be funny if the statistics supported that notion.
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That would be funny if the statistics supported that notion.
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No statistics, just humor.
He indicated he thinks someone who dies without taking the vaccine is amusing, just curious if a vaccinated person dying the same death gets a laugh too. I would have to guess barring visitors makes it easier to sit in a room with a dying person and have a good laugh.
So how does one determine dying of suffocation while vaccinated is better than not vaccinated? Does the vaccine hasten the process or something?
No statistics, just humor.
He indicated he thinks someone who dies without taking the vaccine is amusing, just curious if a vaccinated person dying the same death gets a laugh too. I would have to guess barring visitors makes it easier to sit in a room with a dying person and have a good laugh.
So how does one determine dying of suffocation while vaccinated is better than not vaccinated? Does the vaccine hasten the process or something?
He showed his true face when he made that snide remark to OP. Says he's against the mandates, but then takes some sick pleasure in jeering at OP about how he can't travel due to his wrong think.
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 18:37
Probably about as funny as this guy gasping for his last breath clutching a piece of paper saying he was vaxxed and proud.
I can kind of understand the daughter saying "not as bad as"(particularly if she brow beat him since early 2020 and made his life miserable), but the science pro chiming in with it was better? At the end of the day, neither daughter nor pro has rode it to the end so how the hell would they know?
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/567402-fully-vaccinated-man-dies-of-covid-19-daughter
No statistics, just humor.
He indicated he thinks someone who dies without taking the vaccine is amusing, just curious if a vaccinated person dying the same death gets a laugh too. I would have to guess barring visitors makes it easier to sit in a room with a dying person and have a good laugh.
So how does one determine dying of suffocation while vaccinated is better than not vaccinated? Does the vaccine hasten the process or something?
Yay!!! After posting that same link 5 times you finally got a response. That's sarcasm.
You missed the sarcasm as it was in reference to the retardation involved in the "Govern me harder" meme. Your trapped in the prison of two ideas. You can't allow yourself to be for the vaccine and still against government mandates and overreach. Try it, it know it might hurt, but you can do it! This is the same reason many on this forum misread the data and results, lack of the ability to discern language, the literature, and data. All emotion and no cognitive thoughts. you must have missed the ad hominem comment I made early. I get it, there's a lot to read and you don't have all day.
Reading the article shows that the daughter thought he had an easier death. Dead is dead, and it's going to be ugly until the hypoxia gets so great they just go out. It's her father and she can grieve however she wants. I imagine if it was pointed out to her, she likely would retract it. The ID specialist has no recourse, that was a dumb comment. The deceased had heart failure, recurrent infections, and diabetes. Dude was a set up for covid, wish he made it, but the vaccine is not 100%.
Barring visitors makes it worse, the nurses take all the brunt of the death. Covid patients are high resource utilizers. We've had two generations from one family die many times. Grandparents lived with the whole family. Untrained people are not good at being safe, especially under the stress of someone dying while they are spewing virus while on machines that aerosolize it in the room.
I'ver never seen anyone be amused by the death of anyone in the hospital, young or old. 24 years in and it has never happened around me or to me. I've seen as much as you guys wish you've read about. The wailing, the collapsing people, they grab onto you, they scream, they demand you do more, the no's, the anger, the bartering, the blaming of themselves, the blaming of us.
Educate yourself, don't cherrypick a rare death with the vaccination. Peace out.
Troutrunner
10-25-21, 18:39
He showed his true face when he made that snide remark to OP. Says he's against the mandates, but then takes some sick pleasure in jeering at OP about how he can't travel due to his wrong think.
You got me, I'm a plant. You're so smart. Peace out.
Yay!!! After posting that same link 5 times you finally got a response. That's sarcasm.
You missed the sarcasm as it was in reference to the retardation involved in the "Govern me harder" meme. Your trapped in the prison of two ideas. You can't allow yourself to be for the vaccine and still against government mandates and overreach. Try it, it know it might hurt, but you can do it! This is the same reason many on this forum misread the data and results, lack of the ability to discern language, the literature, and data. All emotion and no cognitive thoughts. you must have missed the ad hominem comment I made early. I get it, there's a lot to read and you don't have all day.
Reading the article shows that the daughter thought he had an easier death. Dead is dead, and it's going to be ugly until the hypoxia gets so great they just go out. It's her father and she can grieve however she wants. I imagine if it was pointed out to her, she likely would retract it. The ID specialist has no recourse, that was a dumb comment. The deceased had heart failure, recurrent infections, and diabetes. Dude was a set up for covid, wish he made it, but the vaccine is not 100%.
Barring visitors makes it worse, the nurses take all the brunt of the death. Covid patients are high resource utilizers. We've had two generations from one family die many times. Grandparents lived with the whole family. Untrained people are not good at being safe, especially under the stress of someone dying while they are spewing virus while on machines that aerosolize it in the room.
I'ver never seen anyone be amused by the death of anyone in the hospital, young or old. 24 years in and it has never happened around me or to me. I've seen as much as you guys wish you've read about. The wailing, the collapsing people, they grab onto you, they scream, they demand you do more, the no's, the anger, the bartering, the blaming of themselves, the blaming of us.
Educate yourself, don't cherrypick a rare death with the vaccination. Peace out.
I am just noticing how much top of the line medical/science pros have lied along with the official narrative(and with the occasional dissenter getting piled on) in the last year to have a level of skepticism about the whole deal.
The infectious disease specialist, by promoting the official narrative, did exactly what every other med pro not wanting to become a pariah has done.
Speaking of cherry picking, the various mandates cannot be separated from the vaccine either.
Link something about any Dr who is against the jab & immediately labeled a hack / kook. (as are you for even sharing)
Link stories that pop up like this all the time & you gotta show 100% proof it's legit jab related & cannot be trusted (as are you for sharing)...not ONE negative story on adverse reaction / death by jab on MSM. Not one!! CDC 411 is legit but VAERS is now a bedtime story. Ya know, death via covid is sound doctrine, but death via jab can't be verified as it's a likely conspiracy theorist.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/concerned-mother-wants-air-tv-ad-pfizers-dangerous-vaccine-daughter-severely-permanently-damaged-comcast-refuses-ad-last-minute/
Early therapeutics were / are suppressed / demonized from day one that could have saved literally thousands for the only reason of EUA / $$$$$.
https://mobile.twitter.com/VerumBellator1/status/1451741105163169798
I've seen enough to know I want nothing to do with anything jab related...it's wrong this thread even needed to be started. I'm seeing where the admin is now gonna require passports for all international travelers (minus the southern border). These jabs are being used for evil, not good. The mfgs & govts pushing them care nothing of our health. But hey, if you are against mandates then saludos.
No statistics, just humor.
He indicated he thinks someone who dies without taking the vaccine is amusing, just curious if a vaccinated person dying the same death gets a laugh too. I would have to guess barring visitors makes it easier to sit in a room with a dying person and have a good laugh.
So how does one determine dying of suffocation while vaccinated is better than not vaccinated? Does the vaccine hasten the process or something?
Wow, you really aren’t following the conversation well, are you?
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Wow, you really aren’t following the conversation well, are you?
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Let's see...trust in the efficacy and safety of the vaccine, just ignore the obvious lies and subterfuge by the folks creating it/promoting it the hardest/mandating it. Sound like you?
Any claim of the vaccine causing problems or not working as claimed(along with cooking the books on numbers all last year) gets shot down as false info very quickly, but the most outrageous nonsense promoting the covid lifestyle(including the ridiculous vaccination makes suffocating easier flight of fancy) gets at least a free pass.
Wanna see something intereresting?
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/index.html#datatracker-home
CDC COVID transmission rate map. Too bad the Southeast has low vaccination participation, they have a higher transmission rate than the rest of the country, right? Nope...
Andy
Let's see...trust in the efficacy and safety of the vaccine, just ignore the obvious lies and subterfuge by the folks creating it/promoting it the hardest/mandating it. Sound like you?
Any claim of the vaccine causing problems or not working as claimed(along with cooking the books on numbers all last year) gets shot down as false info very quickly, but the most outrageous nonsense promoting the covid lifestyle(including the ridiculous vaccination makes suffocating easier flight of fancy) gets at least a free pass.
Just as I thought. You didn’t keep up. You keep wanting to change the subject and talk about something else.
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Wanna see something intereresting?
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/index.html#datatracker-home
CDC COVID transmission rate map. Too bad the Southeast has low vaccination participation, they have a higher transmission rate than the rest of the country, right? Nope...
Andy
Intellectual honesty matters.
The same people here that want to scream from the rooftops forget how much the south was suffering back in August. And again, it isn’t transmission that’s important, it’s hospitalizations.
I had a patient I was trying to transfer to a higher level of care back in August, and the nearest empty ICU bed we found was in South Dakota.
This is why this is so ****ed up and productive conversations can’t happen here.
What’s the purpose of the topic? Which vaccine to take if you’re going to take one? Irrelevant post is irrelevant.
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Just as I thought. You didn’t keep up. You keep wanting to change the subject and talk about something else.
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Yeah I keep going back to the deceitful stuff you would like us to ignore.
Intellectual honesty matters.
The same people here that want to scream from the rooftops forget how much the south was suffering back in August. And again, it isn’t transmission that’s important, it’s hospitalizations.
I had a patient I was trying to transfer to a higher level of care back in August, and the nearest empty ICU bed we found was in South Dakota.
This is why this is so ****ed up and productive conversations can’t happen here.
What’s the purpose of the topic? Which vaccine to take if you’re going to take one? Irrelevant post is irrelevant.
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Who here was screaming about anything? If transmission isn't important, how do people end up in the hospital?
Intellectual honesty matters.
The same people here that want to scream from the rooftops forget how much the south was suffering back in August. And again, it isn’t transmission that’s important, it’s hospitalizations.
I had a patient I was trying to transfer to a higher level of care back in August, and the nearest empty ICU bed we found was in South Dakota.
This is why this is so ****ed up and productive conversations can’t happen here.
What’s the purpose of the topic? Which vaccine to take if you’re going to take one? Irrelevant post is irrelevant.
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The South was suffering and it was blamed on vaccination rate. What do we blame for the current transmission rate in the NW and NE? Maybe all the un-vaxxed people from the SE travelled up and coughed on the vaxxed residents there?
Andy
The South was suffering and it was blamed on vaccination rate. What do we blame for the current transmission rate in the NW and NE? Maybe all the un-vaxxed people from the SE travelled up and coughed on the vaxxed residents there?
Andy
It's probably worse than a patent medicine sales pitch. At least I have never heard of one saying everyone else had to take it for it to work and(if you got around a dirty non customer and caught what ails only them) it would then give you a death XX.9% less bad than what they were going to go through.
The South was suffering and it was blamed on vaccination rate. What do we blame for the current transmission rate in the NW and NE? Maybe all the un-vaxxed people from the SE travelled up and coughed on the vaxxed residents there?
Andy
Again, the south was having a high hospitalization rate.
Transmission rate wasn’t something the vaccine is said to affect all that much.
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Who here was screaming about anything? If transmission isn't important, how do people end up in the hospital?
The point.
Your head.
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Yeah I keep going back to the deceitful stuff you would like us to ignore.
More evidence you don’t pay any attention.
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More evidence you don’t pay any attention.
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Well we know that isn't true or I would be the disciple you crave.
The smartest man in the room is always gonna get the last word...let it go fellas. The thread has run it's course.
Again, the south was having a high hospitalization rate.
Transmission rate wasn’t something the vaccine is said to affect all that much.
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That's odd. The search query "the vaccine will prevent covid" will get numerous CDC and John's Hopkins hits saying something about preventing a person from contracting covid, not the less impressive "will prevent a contracted case of covid from being bad/real bad/deadly".
That's odd. The search query "the vaccine will prevent covid" will get numerous CDC and John's Hopkins hits saying something about preventing a person from contracting covid, not the less impressive "will prevent a contracted case of covid from being bad/real bad/deadly".
I’m guessing you didn’t read the phase three clinical trials when they were released Dec 2020, did you?
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Well we know that isn't true or I would be the disciple you crave.
I don’t crave anything except intellectual honesty. Unfortunately, you’re incapable.
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The smartest man in the room is always gonna get the last word...let it go fellas. The thread has run it's course.
Nice to see you’re still around spewing nonsense.
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.
I'ver never seen anyone be amused by the death of anyone in the hospital, young or old. 24 years in and it has never happened around me or to me. I've seen as much as you guys wish you've read about. The wailing, the collapsing people, they grab onto you, they scream, they demand you do more, the no's, the anger, the bartering, the blaming of themselves, the blaming of us.
Forgot to touch on this earlier. We know there are plenty of people in the medical field who don't give a crap about another suffering and dying from reading about decades long experiments getting those kind of results.
I don’t crave anything except intellectual honesty. Unfortunately, you’re incapable.
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That's a hoot considering the whoppers the people you want us to believe without question are telling.
Again, the south was having a high hospitalization rate.
Transmission rate wasn’t something the vaccine is said to affect all that much.
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The CDC and current administration (aka follow the science) are absolutely blaming unvaxxed individuals for the transmission rate and subsequent vaxxed hospitalizations.
They had to say it, because the vaccine does not protect from catching Covid or from being hospitalized.
Lest we forget, the vaccine reduces the spread to other vaccinated people and makes dying from Covid more enjoyable.
At least the antivaxxers don't have to run to their bunks and rub one out every time a vaxxer dies like the vaxxers do every time an antivaxxer passes. I think the vaxxers get two shots on goal if the news reports "They asked to be vaccinated after they were hospitalized."
Andy
I’m guessing you didn’t read the phase three clinical trials when they were released Dec 2020, did you?
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That data would be from the folks lying about mask efficacy, gain of function research, and so on I think?
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