View Full Version : German Army selects ELCAN Specter DR 1-4x
With EOTech and Trijicon being major players, I don't hear that much about ELCAN or really know much about their products. Presumably they make a quality optic, although I've heard some maintain that their technology is becoming dated.
"Leonardo Germany GmbH has signed a contract with the Bundeswehr’s office of Equipment, Information Technology and In-Service Support, the BAAINBw, to provide 107,929 ELCAN Specter DR 1-4x. Deliveries of the optics are expected to begin in the third quarter of 2021. The ELCAN Specter is currently in service with the Canadian, British, Australian and Norwegian armies and most recently the Danish Army."
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/10/15/german-army-adopts-elcan-specter-dr-1-4x/
Diamondback
10-16-21, 23:28
Google "SU-230"--it's basically a SpecterDR with an NSN on it for SOCOM.
Good news: They're supposedly very rugged optics thanks to the adjustments all being external in the mount. Bad news is they're heavy and chunky, and OMGWTF EXPENSIVE--you can get two ACOG's for the same price.
I feel the German army is at least 10 years behind the times with that choice.
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-17-21, 00:54
It's a solid, conservative choice. Trustworthy and reliable. But with an order that big I think I would have tried to pressure them to extend battery life.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-17-21, 01:18
I feel the German army is at least 10 years behind the times with that choice.
I agree. 4x is so..... 2000s. A 1 to 6 seems at a minimum what you'd want. But then again, weren't most german WWII snipers using a 4x?
I totally feel like de-ja-vu with this topic.
I was surprised to find out how popular is is in Europe.
The ELCAN Specter is currently in service with the Canadian, British, Australian and Norwegian armies and most recently the Danish Army.
In a lot of ways, 1 & 4 makes more sense than 1-4.
There are very rugged, they are virtually indestructible, but they are heavy, and they are expensive.
The mount interface sucks !
In a lot of ways, 1 & 4 makes more sense than 1-4.
I’ve heard this point made and kind of agree. With my Steiner P4Xi I’ve shot a total of one five shot group on 2.5x. Every other shot fired with that optic has been on 1x or 4x. I’m sure someone out there with more real world experience uses the intermediate magnification levels, or can articulate a valid benefit of them, but personally I’d be all over a 1x&4x with somewhat more compact dimensions than a typical LPVO….that I could actually afford of course.
I like them for issues optics. I’d never spend that much money on one and would at least want a better mount than ARMS levers but the optic itself was good in my limited experience.
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BrigandTwoFour
10-17-21, 12:51
I have one of the fixed 4x models intended for the British military, and I'm honestly a fan of it. It's rugged, exceptionally clear, and works well. I appreciate the LED illumination (though I also have an LED ACOG that is way brighter). I'm not a big fan of the ARMS mount, and I haven't found any company out there willing to work up an alternative due to low market share.
All of that said, I don't think there's much a future for high dollar prismatic scopes like the Elcan or ACOG. They have a role to fill, and they're good at it, but they really do lose out on a lot of features people have come to expect from more modern optics.
I like them for issues optics. I’d never spend that much money on one and would at least want a better mount than ARMS levers but the optic itself was good in my limited experience.
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The handful of reviews I have seen griped about the ARMS mount, usually with an add in that they should have used a better type for the cost.
Kevin Boland here on the site used these when he served in the Canadian Army. I'm not sure they were popular due to the mount's durability.
Maybe he'll chime in, first-person experience and all ...
No experience with the ARMS mount, but I take it that it's a somewhat dated design?
Diamondback
10-17-21, 14:34
Kevin Boland here on the site used these when he served in the Canadian Army. I'm not sure they were popular due to the mount's durability.
Maybe he'll chime in, first-person experience and all ...
CF standard-issue is a single-magnification 3.4x, they call it the C79 and US issued it as the M134 with a special reticle for the M249. I think some of their special-ops guys got SpecterDR's, but if I'm recalling what the guys at CGN have said right anyone who had permission and funds would dump it for ACOG, Aimpoint, Eotech, pretty much ANYTHING else at first opportunity.
Does ELCAN have much of a presence in the LE community?
dreamcrusher8307
10-17-21, 18:14
Does ELCAN have much of a presence in the LE community?
It's an approved optic for USBP. Not many in circulation though. I had one on an M4 back in 2014. Rugged, but heavy.
Why does anyone care what a non fighting military issues?
titsonritz
10-18-21, 00:11
I have zero experience with one but for my hard earned dollars they always looked clunky and heavy surrounded by much better options, again, zero experience but it seems like a lame move in 2021.
I was surprised to find out how popular is is in Europe.Irrational, emotional tie for the Germans.
ELCAN stands for Ernst Leitz Canada. Leica (another German Ernst Leitz company) makes cameras and other optics.
BrigandTwoFour
10-18-21, 13:40
No experience with the ARMS mount, but I take it that it's a somewhat dated design?
Yes, it's one of the earlier QD methods and rather notorious for being picky about which rails it works on. It can also wear out over time. With my Elcan, it simply wouldn't clamp down on the top rail of a Spikes Tactical upper, for example. I closed the latches and it would still slide back and forth within the slots. That didn't get any better when I installed the adjustable levers, either.
It works fine on my BCM uppers, though. ARMS's answer to loose mounting has always been, "Get an in-spec upper."
The levers are also non-locking. There are little metal loops for running a small zip die around the lever and cinching against the loop so it doesn't accidentally come open.
The mount is the weakest point of the unit, IMO. And there isn't any other option because it's integral and nobody has tried to come up with something better.
Averageman
10-18-21, 14:17
The problem with the Elcan seems to be that it is heavy and it's old tech, thus the weight and lower magnification choices.
I beleive buying them "As Is" isn't the smartest choice, but based on the budget for the German Army, perhaps they can't make a lot of demands as perhaps we can? They seem to be buying "Off the shelf."
The perfect Optic in my opinion would be 1x, 2.5x, 5x, 10x, not difficult, but perhaps heavy. I'm pretty sure the tech is out there, just the weight is the problem.
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-18-21, 22:25
It appears they are getting a few mods like ambi magnification levers? Or was that already available?
I have never owned one but I have a buddy who swears by them and they seem really nice. I like the system and find it more handy than a traditional throw lever on a variable optic. My only real issue is I think they need to up their battery life game.
BoringGuy45
10-19-21, 13:53
From I know of the Elcans, it seems like the biggest problems with them are they, while solid, good optics, are WAY overpriced, and the mounting system is way out of date. At about $2200, especially compared to LPVOs like the Razor Gen III and the Kahles K6i running less than that, it's hard to justify. I remember Garand Thumb said he thinks it would do much better if it were in a $1300-$1500 range.
See, that's the thing.
These routinely go on sale for around $1700 or so. Which isn't that bad considering... It's similar in cost to an ACOG with RMR. Used they can be found for a couple hundred less unless somebody is selling a "clone correct" NSN marked one.
The other thing is the weight. It's lighter than any "duty grade" LPVO when you factor in the mount. Especially a robust mount.
I find that most complaints of the Specter DR aren't really founded anymore, except one. Eye box and eye relief. While much better than a 4x ACOG, is not as good as a good LPVO. And thus, the 1x is a poor substitute for a true red dot. This is especially evident when trying to shoot passively with night vision, since your "eye" is now a few inches in front of your face.
So, there are definitely some pros and cons, even with the latest updated models.
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