View Full Version : Those doggone student loans again...
I don't know. At some point somethings gotta give. That interest is a real killer:
"After Ron and Marcia Rizzardi got married in 1992, they thought consolidating their student loans was the best financial option for them.
But now, thanks to sky-high interest rates, the Arkansas-based couple owes $130,000 in student debt even though they've made $140,000 in payments over the past 25 years. They've paid off their original loan amount of $54,000 nearly three times over.
"The loans have always stayed one step ahead of us," Marcia told Insider. "It has affected every aspect of our lives."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/meet-married-couple-130-000-100000540.html
Gabriel556
10-18-21, 17:01
I have to wonder what their credit was like. I also wonder what sort of tangible assets they have now (maybe none). Maybe I am naive but I don’t remember insane interest rates back then. And who’s idea were loan terms? Yes, 25 years ago, $54k was a good amount of money, about 2 nice American cars, maybe a Cadillac and a Caprice. But still, if they are still paying after 25 years and still owe a mortgage worth, they stretched it out crazy far, and clearly went for a LOW payment.
I didn’t take student loans, i scrimped and saved, got scholarships and worked my ass off through school to graduate owing $4k at the end. That was it. Maybe if they start making a progressive collateral program and wrecking a few lives fewer people will go to college for useless degrees and be taken advantage of.
Diamondback
10-18-21, 17:12
Maybe if people focused more on practical degrees with an employment outlook rather than vanity ones like [insert Snowflakery Du Jour here] Studies or Underwater Basketweaving...
Then again, I shouldn't throw stones, there ain't exactly a lot of market demand for military-history majors outside the uniformed services.
From the article:
"After leaving the US Air Force in the early 1990s, Ron, now an engineer, went to school to obtain a degree in aviation. To supplement his part-time work as a certified flight instructor, Marcia took out student loans to obtain a master's degree in education - she's still employed in the field. But a few years later, after their two daughters were born, Ron experienced two layoffs and Marcia suffered an injury that put her out of work, causing them to defer their student-loan payments.
But deferring those payments didn't quite give them the relief they hoped for because interest continued to accumulate in the meantime. That's what has "always kept them out of reach" of even making a dent in their principal balance, Ron said.
Their debt load also held them back from saving up for their daughters' education, requiring the couple to take out parent PLUS loans - the most expensive type of loan, which covers the cost of attendance at a college and is not based on income. Those loans have added another $100,000 to their overall debt load. Their daughters also took out student loans themselves while getting their degrees at state universities.
Now, Ron doesn't see himself retiring until he's at least 75 years old, and once the pandemic freeze on student-loan payments lift in February, the couple is looking at $1,600 monthly payments for the foreseeable future."
Diamondback
10-18-21, 17:25
Just to clarify, my comment was not targeted at the Rizzardis' case study but at the predatory practices of Big Academia and Sallie Mae in general. My Associates (and almost a second before changing majors just in time to get hit with a new Term Limits law) was entirely cash-out-of-pocket with Resident Tuition being my only break. (Well, other than a few students who'd already completed courses I was signing up for and I making deals where I bought their textbooks for more than they'd get at buyback but less than I'd pay used at the bookstore...)
Their debt load also held them back from saving up for their daughters' education, requiring the couple to take out parent PLUS loans - the most expensive type of loan, which covers the cost of attendance at a college and is not based on income.
They had a crap ton of debt so they... Borrowed MORE money for their kids 'education'.
Freakin idiots.
One would think they would have learned their lesson about student loans (with their own student loan debt) but these idiots doubled down!
They had a crap ton of debt so they... Borrowed MORE money for their kids 'education'.
Freakin idiots.
One would think they would have learned their lesson about student loans (with their own student loan debt) but these idiots doubled down!
Well you can’t fix stupid.
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BoringGuy45
10-18-21, 18:43
They must have gone with an adjustable rate. If you go with a fixed rate that won’t be a problem. I only had a 6% interest rate on mine and I paid off my undergrad loans just making the minimum monthly payments.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-18-21, 19:50
They had a crap ton of debt so they... Borrowed MORE money for their kids 'education'.
Freakin idiots.
One would think they would have learned their lesson about student loans (with their own student loan debt) but these idiots doubled down!
Something doesn't add up. $100,000 in loans for in state schools? Not saying it can't be done, but if you don't have the income to pay off the old loans, you should have low enough income to get financial aid. If the were taking our loans to pay for room& board- go to a closer state school and live at home. Or start out two years at a Community College.
At least they got real degrees- but the flight stuff makes me nervous. Seems like a great way to spend money- and if it doesn't work out you got nothing to show, and if it does, regional airlines pay crap.
We are going to forgive those loans. It is hard to point to the people 'hurt' by that- outside of taxpayers, and we are taking it in the shorts all around lately. That it goes to the DEms new core constituency- college educated elitists that are useless. This will be the greatest transfer of money to the useless and upper-middle class ever.
Student loan interest is like 6% cry me a river
Wtf do you expect to happen when you defer payments?
Their kids also took out student loans themselves. Lot of debt in that family.
Looks like they took out Parent Plus loans and their daughters took out loans.
Plus deffering payments , it only 5th grade math that will tell what is going to happen.
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I cannot fathom why parents take out loans for their children. I also cannot fathom how you can't suck it up and pay down your loans. Don't make babies, buy houses and new cars if your debts aren't under control. While it was not student loans, I have paid off massive amounts of money over the years to get my business going and it takes commitment.
and it takes commitment.
And there is the problem.
Nobody wants to sacrifice.
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Force colleges to have some skin in the game (i.e. pay the interest if graduates of their programs are actively collecting unemployment), and you'll see the useless degree programs vanish overnight.
The loan repayment options are actually pretty excellent, and ISA's are already starting to be a much more popular option & should be more common (but aren't because of how much federal subsidy gets dumped on to that)
They had a crap ton of debt so they... Borrowed MORE money for their kids 'education'.
Freakin idiots.
One would think they would have learned their lesson about student loans (with their own student loan debt) but these idiots doubled down!
I know I might catch some flak for not "understanding" but my response would have been "Didn't your town have a recruiting station back then?" Yeah I know, the military's not for everyone, I get that.
I cannot fathom why parents take out loans for their children. I also cannot fathom how you can't suck it up and pay down your loans. Don't make babies, buy houses and new cars if your debts aren't under control. While it was not student loans, I have paid off massive amounts of money over the years to get my business going and it takes commitment.
From what I've read and heard, coming up short on your student loans is greatly frowned upon. Yeah, you can "extend" it, but the interest still accumulates.
So as a baseline, if you can't do the math on your proposed student loan, nobody should hire you for anything.
I agree with everything said here and have no student loans but cannot ignore how and why laws were changed to allow for easier to get and harder to discharge loans for 18yr old children. Many of which literally have no clue in our newly created (since the 50's) naive extended adolescence world. I was the clueless recipient of college aimed credit cards in the late 80's and those caused enough grief for stupid 18yr old me.
I don't think paying them all off is the answer, but looking into all the causes of the actual situation might help. Why did they need a law change in banking practices which supposedly kept both lenders and lendees in balance before this?
Dennis.
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Diamondback
10-23-21, 10:10
The cynic would say it's part of Cloward-Piven, designed to both overload the system and create "dependency traps" designed to reduce those who fall into it to serfdom.
The cynic would say it's part of Cloward-Piven, designed to both overload the system and create "dependency traps" designed to reduce those who fall into it to serfdom.
It really does make one wonder. Debt is modern day slavery, IMHO.
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It really does make one wonder. Debt is modern day slavery, IMHO.
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No its not. Debt is a choice. They are voluntarily trading future income for what they see as an education.
Taxation is slavery.
No its not. Debt is a choice. They are voluntarily trading future income for what they see as an education.
Taxation is slavery.
Good point. Yes Taxation is most certainly slavery. I’d modify my statement to debt is voluntary modern slavery. Maybe indentured servitude is a better word for it.
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Good point. Yes Taxation is most certainly slavery. I’d modify my statement to debt is voluntary modern slavery. Maybe indentured servitude is a better word for it.
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No its not. Debt is a choice. They are voluntarily trading future income for what they see as an education.
Taxation is slavery.It is a choice. However, when I have refinanced my home I had to submit tons of documentation and have stellar credit and resources to REDUCE my payment. But an 18yr old can get $100K++ on their uninformed promise to get a social justice degree?? Seems like legalized predatory lending. People should know better, people should be smarter, but we got here anyways...
Dennis.
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I'm no expert and I didn't go to college but every single person I know that did go to college and is my age (under 50) can retire now (some have) and have their future great grandkids not work a day in their life. Some have bought land and houses overseas, some spend most of their time vacationing even during lockdowns. None of these people are still paying for their college and they all graduated in the early 00s
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Good point. Yes Taxation is most certainly slavery. I’d modify my statement to debt is voluntary modern slavery. Maybe indentured servitude is a better word for it.
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Debt is a tremendous vehicle for generating wealth if used properly. I don't see it as slavery or indentured servitude. If you have a plan, borrow the money, and take paying it seriously; you can easily turn that loan into wealth. The planning part is picking a degree that actually has a chance at generating enough income to pay back the loans. The rest is up to your work ethic. Even if education is free, the same sub-set of people that are struggling with student loans would find another way to go broke.
When I chose my field it was based on projected growth in the field, annual salary, length in school. Based off of the info, I focused on being a pharmacist (starting undergrad in 2002) and knowing I would owe around $140k in student loans vs starting salary of mid $120k in 2009. The math works, I was accepted to pharmacy school and met my wife there. We owed $320k total and lived off my salary while her salary paid off the student loans. A lot of my classmates went out and bought 800k houses and other luxury items. If we have a big purchase (house, cars, etc) we base what we can afford off of 1 salary. We by no means suffer and enjoy a comfortable life with a projected retirement when I'm 50. Pharmacy as a profession is dead now and I ask my interns if they did a ROI and market assessment of pharmacy. I was shocked that it hasn't even occurred to them. Over the years I stopped feeling bad for them as the knowingly go into $150-300k in student loan debt and will be entering a saturated market with decreased wages.
Student loans are indeed a self imposed slavery and paying them off should be your primary goal. I like the fact that if we lost everything, I can work any available job from starbucks to construction and not have a lingering debt.
Averageman
10-27-21, 04:17
Student loans are the modern version of "Share Cropping".
Can you overcome the debt? Depends on how disciplined you are.
Student loans are a tool, not a free ride.
Student loans are a tool, not a free ride.
If more kids were told this and understood this there would be a lot less people struggling under student loan debt. Unfortunately a lot of kids do in fact equate student loans to a “free” ride.
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Averageman
10-27-21, 09:06
If more kids were told this and understood this there would be a lot less people struggling under student loan debt. Unfortunately a lot of kids do in fact equate student loans to a “free” ride.
Well to update an old saying, "The World needs someone to run the fast food window too!"
And then they become sharecroppers.
Reagans Rascals
11-07-21, 01:17
The issue we have let ourselves stumble into as a society, is that we have made blue collar trades seem low class and undesirable, less than. Most people look down on trades, think of themselves as being better than that, solely because of societal pressure, trying to impress others, and that leaves us with everyone believing college is the only path. Most people are not cut out for it, and most people would be much happier having a job doing something they enjoy that actually pays well, but because the consensus is trades are for dumb people, they choose the "more intelligent path."
Fact is, school not for smart people. It is for people that simply follow the rules. Do what you are told, do your homework, turn it in when it is due, and you will excel in school. School is not for free thinkers. It is there to make good employees. There's a reason they say "A students work for B students, C students run the company, and D students dedicate the buildings.."
I graduated from engineering school with a 2.42. I work at a National Lab. GPA doesn't correlate to intelligence, merely to rule following. So back to my point, the issue we got ourselves into as a society is that we put too much emphasis on college, and not on trades and we completely got away from apprenticeships. Thus, you are forced to buy a degree, before you can even test drive working in that industry. So many people, outside of STEM fields, get degrees and later find out they hate that field and the degree is now worthless. Yes this is partly on them, but the system is setup in such a way that you can't test drive the car before you buy it.
We need to go back to industry backed apprenticeships. I chose Mechanical Engineering because I love the field, however, I am now an indentured servant, working to pay that loan, no matter how much I love or hate my job. I do love my job, but I would have been just as happy being a welder or machinist, with no debt... just my .02
I am 72k in debt. Which I am gladly paying back because it was my debt, I made, I'll pay it. I am not asking anyone else to pay my bill. So I also believe others shouldn't ask me to pay theirs.
Averageman
11-07-21, 06:49
The issue we have let ourselves stumble into as a society, is that we have made blue collar trades seem low class and undesirable, less than. Most people look down on trades, think of themselves as being better than that, solely because of societal pressure, trying to impress others, and that leaves us with everyone believing college is the only path. Most people are not cut out for it, and most people would be much happier having a job doing something they enjoy that actually pays well, but because the consensus is trades are for dumb people, they choose the "more intelligent path."
When I was 14 an older gentleman from Church wanted me to come work with him, he was a Master Plumber and looking for a young willing apprentice.
He said, if you learn this well and you start your own business you'll make the same money as a Doctor.
No Kiddin?
The issue we have let ourselves stumble into as a society, is that we have made blue collar trades seem low class and undesirable, less than. Most people look down on trades, think of themselves as being better than that, solely because of societal pressure, trying to impress others, and that leaves us with everyone believing college is the only path. Most people are not cut out for it, and most people would be much happier having a job doing something they enjoy that actually pays well, but because the consensus is trades are for dumb people, they choose the "more intelligent path."
Fact is, school not for smart people. It is for people that simply follow the rules. Do what you are told, do your homework, turn it in when it is due, and you will excel in school. School is not for free thinkers. It is there to make good employees. There's a reason they say "A students work for B students, C students run the company, and D students dedicate the buildings.."
I graduated from engineering school with a 2.42. I work at a National Lab. GPA doesn't correlate to intelligence, merely to rule following. So back to my point, the issue we got ourselves into as a society is that we put too much emphasis on college, and not on trades and we completely got away from apprenticeships. Thus, you are forced to buy a degree, before you can even test drive working in that industry. So many people, outside of STEM fields, get degrees and later find out they hate that field and the degree is now worthless. Yes this is partly on them, but the system is setup in such a way that you can't test drive the car before you buy it.
We need to go back to industry backed apprenticeships. I chose Mechanical Engineering because I love the field, however, I am now an indentured servant, working to pay that loan, no matter how much I love or hate my job. I do love my job, but I would have been just as happy being a welder or machinist, with no debt... just my .02
I am 72k in debt. Which I am gladly paying back because it was my debt, I made, I'll pay it. I am not asking anyone else to pay my bill. So I also believe others shouldn't ask me to pay theirs.
When I was 14 an older gentleman from Church wanted me to come work with him, he was a Master Plumber and looking for a young willing apprentice.
He said, if you learn this well and you start your own business you'll make the same money as a Doctor.
No Kiddin?
When I was 19 I spent a year as a tile apprentice under one of my parent’s neighbor. One of the best years of my early life. I made a lot of money and learned a valuable trade. However, I ultimately decided it wasn’t for me and the reason was the guy I worked under was 38, had had three knee surgeries already, a bad back, and was basically eating percs all day to get through the day.
After that year I decided to attended college after joining the military didn’t work out. I worked construction and maintenance the entire time I was in school and even contemplated leaving school to pursue that full time. I ended up sticking college out and graduating. I’ve long since paid my student loans off - so that’s not an issue I face.
However, I’ve gone back and forth ever since on if I should have gone the other road instead of the one I ended up choosing.
I was truly happy in my time work working the trade job and then construction. I can’t say the same in regards to what I’ve done work wise since leaving college.
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