View Full Version : Dune 2021
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-20-21, 12:43
Really excited about this one. Some good actors and the design looks great. I wish it was a miniseries. I always thought that Dune was too much book for one movie- and I think Dune from the 80s proved it. I know that they have been working on this for like a decade, so maybe they can pull it off. Should be some good action scenes. Looks like there is a first screening on HBOmax at 6pm eastern tomorrow. I don’t know what that means- it will be available to stream or will it ‘broadcast’.
https://youtu.be/8g18jFHCLXk
I just read on IMDB that they are splitting into two movies. This one is 2:35 long. If it makes money, they will make the second part. Ugh. That means three more years at least. If Ilike it streaming, I’ll go see it in a theater to give it a chance. Especially if I Can see it at an imax or big screen.
Adrenaline_6
10-20-21, 13:37
I just hope they don't eff it up. I won't hold my breath though.
titsonritz
10-20-21, 15:09
I wish it was a miniseries. I always thought that Dune was too much book for one movie- and I think Dune from the 80s proved it.
I never saw the miniseries they made with William Hurt.
I just hope they don't eff it up. I won't hold my breath though.
I wouldn't either, everything seems to have to have a bunch woke bullshit these days.
They need to stop this crap already. They accomplished little or nothing with the remake of Blade Runner, this will be about the same.
Five_Point_Five_Six
10-20-21, 18:21
Some of you boomers are about to be big mad when this one ends up being better than the original. Kinda like when Jeff Bridges dunked on the original True Grit. Yeah I said it. The remake of True Grit is better than the original.
As far as whether or not it will feature wokeness, if you're familiar with the storyline, then you already know what it's gonna be.
I could be wrong about Dune, but we'll see. If I don't think it's better, I'll admit I was wrong. Post angry replies below.
Some of you boomers are about to be big mad when this one ends up being better than the original. Kinda like when Jeff Bridges dunked on the original True Grit. Yeah I said it. The remake of True Grit is better than the original.
As far as whether or not it will feature wokeness, if you're familiar with the storyline, then you already know what it's gonna be.
I could be wrong about Dune, but we'll see. If I don't think it's better, I'll admit I was wrong. Post angry replies below.
I can agree on both counts- True Grit 2010 was the better movie (and much closer to the book) and since the original Dune 1984 sucked (I last saw it in 1984) there is a good chance this could be better. Not much chance I'll go see it, though, since it isn't my genre.
Some of you boomers are about to be big mad when this one ends up being better than the original. Kinda like when Jeff Bridges dunked on the original True Grit. Yeah I said it. The remake of True Grit is better than the original.
As far as whether or not it will feature wokeness, if you're familiar with the storyline, then you already know what it's gonna be.
I could be wrong about Dune, but we'll see. If I don't think it's better, I'll admit I was wrong. Post angry replies below.
If it's better, I'll be thankful. But evidence shows that usually doesn't happen. Last film I can recall where the remake slammed the original was 3:10 to Yuma. I don't even particularly like westerns but it was really good.
John Carpenter's "The Thing" went places the original could never dream of, I love both films but the 1982 version is of course superior.
I really wanted "The Day the Earth Stood Still" to be great because the original is one of my favorite 50s sci fi films, unfortunately it sucked hard and I knew we were in trouble when Keanu Reeves was cast in the lead. Parts of "The War of the Worlds" were better than the 1950s version and it was much closer to the book but Dakota Faning screaming through the entire film made it hard to take and "punky kid, you're a sucky dad" character was almost as bad. I was sorta cheering for the martians to eat them. Obviously special effects were amazing and Spielberg typically slam dunks this kind of film, even Tom Cruise managed to not screw it up.
But Dune, how can it go wrong...let me count the ways. Even the original version has faults, flaws and bugs. It's one of those sci fi ideas that should never work but somehow they pulled it off a little bit and it's still mostly watchable. A lot of the content in the film is just damn stupid. I don't think Hollywood is talented enough to attempt a complete departure and unique telling, I'm betting they go for the zeitgeist of the original and amplify it's faults while making the whole of the film much, much worse.
The main problem is Hollywood has a first primary goal of commercial success, that means I'm not the target audience but people who think "2 Fast, 2 Furious" and "John Wick" are some of the greatest films ever made are the ones this will be aimed at. It's why so many 60s films were bizarre, stupid and a complete waste of time because the target audience was boomers who at the time were largely comprised of hippie / counter culture f tards.
The additional problem will be any social consciousness "woke" messaging crap, ironically this ruined more than a few films from the late 60s and early 70s which were again targeted towards boomers who were embracing counter culture / youth movement shit. Woke ain't exactly new, it's been with us from the dawn of film and I can name dozens and dozens of films from the 1930s which are little more than vehicles for "new deal" socialism and political social engineering.
So not holding my breath for the remake of Dune to redeem the original in any way, shape or form.
I never saw the miniseries they made with William Hurt.
I wouldn't either, everything seems to have to have a bunch woke bullshit these days.
I saw the miniseries made back in 2000. I liked it better the 1984 Dune movie. I have not read Dune so I don’t know how closely the miniseries was to the original book. I guess I should read it.
I have read both the foundation and robot series from Asimov. I have read all of Ender’s Game books and the Frederik Pohl Heechee series too.
Business_Casual
10-20-21, 19:42
Dune…. Arakis…. Desert planet…
Sha’i Halud! The sleeper has awakened!
For some reason Dune seems to inspire....weirdo approaches to film making!
I read 2 or three of the books but never got some weird fantastic images from it. It was just an amazing story!
Ever hear of Jodorowsky's Dune that was never made? Supposedly the genesis of a variety of sci-fi films. There were elements taken from it clear up to Alien Prometheus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0cJNR8HEw0
Business_Casual
10-20-21, 21:10
Jodorowsky is an esotericist. Thankfully he did not make Dune.
You have strength. You shall be known as Usual - which is the strength of the base of the pillar. This is your secret name in our troop.
For some reason Dune seems to inspire....weirdo approaches to film making!
The biggest problem with Dune is the prologue by Virginia Madsen is the best part of the film and everything else fails to live up to the opening.
Looking at Denis Villeneuve’s recent works - Sicario, Arrival, and Blade Runner - he’s probably the one director who can actually give Dune the treatment it deserves.
I’d be at a theater tomorrow night if I wasn’t working.
titsonritz
10-21-21, 16:33
Looking at Denis Villeneuve’s recent works - Sicario, Arrival, and Blade Runner - he’s probably the one director who can actually give Dune the treatment it deserves.
I’d be at a theater tomorrow night if I wasn’t working.
My buddy/co-worker just told me at lunch he is taking his wife on their date night to go see it. He said he is going to watch the David Lynch rendition tonight to prep.
Looking at Denis Villeneuve’s recent works - Sicario, Arrival, and Blade Runner - he’s probably the one director who can actually give Dune the treatment it deserves.
I’d be at a theater tomorrow night if I wasn’t working.
Probably true, while I wasn't very impressed with Blade Runner 2049, I really liked Arrival and the ideas it explored. No matter what I'll have to watch it, I'm just not getting my hopes up.
The_War_Wagon
10-21-21, 19:10
If Capt. Picard ain't jammin' on the Sitar, my buns don't want none, hun.
Probably true, while I wasn't very impressed with Blade Runner 2049, I really liked Arrival and the ideas it explored. No matter what I'll have to watch it, I'm just not getting my hopes up.
The Alien, Predators, and Blade Runner worlds meet in same universe. Watch this YouTube video:
https://youtu.be/7fb2y2Q2m6k
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-22-21, 00:19
Watched it tonight. My son and I liked it, my wife hated it. It was pretty good. Deviates from the 80s version, IIRC? Frankly (ha!) I forget the book details. Good stuff. I liked the 80s Jessica better- much more concubine. Special effects good, not over powering. Less steam-punk than the 80s version. Really hope they finish it off. Might go see it at an IMAX for fun.
Also watched it tonight
Knew it was going to be the 2 parts which is a bummer but liked it thought they did a good job with it
Really did not do any stupid woke stuff etc... so that was good :)
Was entertained the wife even stayed awake rare for her
LowSpeed_HighDrag
10-23-21, 11:26
My wife and I are too young to be versed in Dune-lore. We plan to watch it tonight after the kids go down. If I manage to stay awake, I'll report back with my thoughts.
Five_Point_Five_Six
10-23-21, 11:30
Some of you boomers are about to be big mad when this one ends up being better than the original. Kinda like when Jeff Bridges dunked on the original True Grit. Yeah I said it. The remake of True Grit is better than the original.
As far as whether or not it will feature wokeness, if you're familiar with the storyline, then you already know what it's gonna be.
I could be wrong about Dune, but we'll see. If I don't think it's better, I'll admit I was wrong. Post angry replies below.
Well I wasn't wrong, at least as far as opinions go. It was better than the original. My wife has been looking forward to it for a while, she loves the book and the original movie and she liked Dune 2021 better.
It wasn't the greatest movie ever, and there were a few things I didn't like, which were mostly casting choices. I don't like Timothy Chalamet, he's like the person you throw into a role when you don't know if you want a teenage male or a young lesbian to have the part. He's like a Hollywood NPC but unironically.
Saw most of it last evening....boring/dull/useless. Waste of time.
So, pretty much like the original then.
Business_Casual
10-23-21, 18:27
Saw most of it last evening....boring/dull/useless. Waste of time.
Woke and go broke?
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-23-21, 21:52
Woke and go broke?
One character flips from male to female, but The main characters were not screwed with.
I overall liked it. But I still got the general feeling that the story was a bit rushed. There wasn't sufficient character development as they left out the inner monolog of the first film and book, and if I hadn't watched the first one a couple of times and read the book, I could see people thinking it was disjointed. Also, no weirding modules.
Hope they hurry up and release the second one.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-24-21, 13:58
I overall liked it. But I still got the general feeling that the story was a bit rushed. There wasn't sufficient character development as they left out the inner monolog of the first film and book, and if I hadn't watched the first one a couple of times and read the book, I could see people thinking it was disjointed. Also, no weirding modules.
Hope they hurry up and release the second one.
My wife had a hard time following. Inner monologue is a lazy filmmakers way of getting the job done. You have the visual medium that can convey huge amounts of info, but sometimes you need to mainline the info to make sure that people get it. They really needed the scene from the 80s that better explains the need for spice for travel- otherwise it just looks like the spaceships are coming from a sewer pipe in the sky. They made the travel on par with it being used as a drug.
I thought it was great. In an ideal world, this should have been a multi-part series like Foundation.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-24-21, 15:30
I thought it was great. In an ideal world, this should have been a multi-part series like Foundation.
Agreed. Foundation seems to be neither developing chatractes or moving the plot forward. I just hope they make the second part. It was #1 in theater $ sales, $40m. Pretty high per-screen sales. Hope that bodes well. Just what kind of time line. Those are some pretty big/hot actors.
Adrenaline_6
10-24-21, 20:14
Saw it. Not too bad. Can't complain actually, with what they have been doing to movies and remakes, this was refreshing.
I just hope part II doesn't take too long... and bring on the weirding modules!
titsonritz
10-25-21, 02:41
Hearing from younger kids they like it, hearing from older fans of the books, not so much. Talked to one more excited about the Babylon 5 reboot
Hearing from younger kids they like it, hearing from older fans of the books, not so much. Talked to one more excited about the Babylon 5 reboot
Older fan of the book here. I read it at least 4 times between high school and my 20s (I'm in my 50s now). I saw the movie last night and I thought it was fantastic. The storyline/character development did feel a bit rushed after the fact, but I feel like the inner essence of the book is still there. I loved it and will probably watch it again.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-26-21, 19:24
Part two was greenlight. Supposedly October 2023
I make rare exceptions to go to a theater to see movies these days, but I knew Dune had to be one of them. As as huge fan of the book, who read it more times than I can remember as a kid into young adult, I was looking forward to this movie ever since hearing of it being in development years ago. As director Denis Villeneuve did an excellent job with the follow up to the most iconic SF movie of all time (Bladed Runner -> Blade Runner 2049), My hopes were further enhanced.
Considering what he faced with such a book as Dune, Villeneuve, really had his work cut out for him with this project. The movie adaptation does a commendable job of making all attempts to follow the book's essential plot lines, but is unable to really develop the characters. It relies heavily on people having read Dune to know much about them, and it still makes it difficult to care much about them regardless. The acting is solid, the visuals are impressive, stunning in some scenes, but overall, it just falls flat in its ability to really draw the viewer into it.
I also think this movie would have been more impactful using relative unknown/unknown actors, as you're keenly aware you're watching Jason Momoa as Duncan Idaho, Josh Brolin as Gurney Halleck and Dave Bautista as Beast Rabban Harkonnen, and it distracts heavily. I will add however that Dave Bautista can really act and has shown in this movie, as well as 2049, he's got legit acting chops and not just some ex wrestler type who has to be in super hero movies with limited dialogue.
While I understand that the use of known names helps sell tickets, and no doubt some of them wanted to be part of that epic project for adapting the best known and loved SF book of all time, it does not help this movie. It kept preventing me from really being absorbed into the story.
This is not a bad movie by any means, in fact, it's a must see for anyone who read Dune and or enjoys SF movies made for adults not based on yet more super heroes. I wil of course see Part II without hesitation. I would say a read of Dune is a must to actually understand and appreciate this movie, and Villeneuve may be depending too heavily on that reality.
What Villeneuve has proven in this adaptation of Dune (which is superior to the last film attempt...) is that Dune may be impossible to fully capture perfectly as a film adaption without it being a full series perhaps. Or, perhaps it's just one of those books that can't translated well to film due to the complexities and nuances of the written word. B+/A-
I make rare exceptions to go to a theater to see movies these days, but I knew Dune had to be one of them. As as huge fan of the book, who read it more times than I can remember as a kid into young adult, I was looking forward to this movie ever since hearing of it being in development years ago. As director Denis Villeneuve did an excellent job with the follow up to the most iconic SF movie of all time (Bladed Runner -> Blade Runner 2049), My hopes were further enhanced.
Considering what he faced with such a book as Dune, Villeneuve, really had his work cut out for him with this project. The movie adaptation does a commendable job of making all attempts to follow the book's essential plot lines, but is unable to really develop the characters. It relies heavily on people having read Dune to know much about them, and it still makes it difficult to care much about them regardless. The acting is solid, the visuals are impressive, stunning in some scenes, but overall, it just falls flat in its ability to really draw the viewer into it.
I also think this movie would have been more impactful using relative unknown/unknown actors, as you're keenly aware you're watching Jason Momoa as Duncan Idaho, Josh Brolin as Gurney Halleck and Dave Bautista as Beast Rabban Harkonnen, and it distracts heavily. I will add however that Dave Bautista can really act and has shown in this movie, as well as 2049, he's got legit acting chops and not just some ex wrestler type who has to be in super hero movies with limited dialogue.
While I understand that the use of known names helps sell tickets, and no doubt some of them wanted to be part of that epic project for adapting the best known and loved SF book of all time, it does not help this movie. It kept preventing me from really being absorbed into the story.
This is not a bad movie by any means, in fact, it's a must see for anyone who read Dune and or enjoys SF movies made for adults not based on yet more super heroes. I wil of course see Part II without hesitation. I would say a read of Dune is a must to actually understand and appreciate this movie, and Villeneuve may be depending too heavily on that reality.
What Villeneuve has proven in this adaptation of Dune (which is superior to the last film attempt...) is that Dune may be impossible to fully capture perfectly as a film adaption without it being a full series perhaps. Or, perhaps it's just one of those books that can't translated well to film due to the complexities and nuances of the written word. B+/A-
Exactly this. Except I give it a C+/B-, mostly because of expectations.
Exactly this. Except I give it a C+/B-, mostly because of expectations.
Blade Runner 2049 is a movie you have to see more than once to fully appreciate, and it only gets better with additional viewings. While I will watch this one again when it hits rental, I don't expect it be similar to 2049 in that respect.
Seeing Dune having not read the book would be a waste of time.
Blade Runner 2049 is a movie you have to see more than once to fully appreciate, and it only gets better with additional viewings. While I will watch this one again when it hits rental, I don't expect it be similar to 2049 in that respect.
Seeing Dune having not read the book would be a waste of time.Have watched it twice already, Blade Runner 2049 that is, and I agree that it's excellent. But I'm a fan of quality sci-fi with immersive universes.
2 relatively recent shows that gave really grabbed my attention and imagination are The Expanse and Foundation.
Have watched it twice already, Blade Runner 2049 that is, and I agree that it's excellent. But I'm a fan of quality sci-fi with immersive universes.
2 relatively recent shows that gave really grabbed my attention and imagination are The Expanse and Foundation.
I found 2049 even better on 3d and 4th viewings. The Expanse is the best SF series of all time and I reviewed here each season. I was not a big Asimov fan personally and don't have Apple TV, so not seen it. To me, Asimov was ok, kinda milk toast SF to mr. I like "hard" SF such as Larry Niven etc. I will say I have been far more engrossed in The Expanse than I was in Dune.
If/when Foundation makes it to NF etc, will check it out no doubt.
joedirt199
10-30-21, 08:59
Was nice to watch it with my 5 y/o and not have to worry about gorey scenes and cussing. He was doing other stuff while it played so I will have to watch it again with more attention but a pleasant change of pace from the cartoons and super hero movies that are normally playing.
Watched it last night with my wife and we both really enjoyed it.
She is 33 years old and had never seen nor read anything Dune prior to watching. She liked everything about it, but said that it reminded her of Game of Thrones in space lol.
I saw it in the theater opening weekend and it was good but there was a lot of story they were trying to fit in and could get a bit confusing if you missed something.
I watched it again on HBO Max and enjoyed it more the second time around, but then and again my the large soda was a mistake in the theater with 30 minutes still left in the movie.
I think what will hurt Dune in the long run is the delay between part one and part 2.
I read somewhere that the director wanted to film them together and release part 2 sooner but due to Covid, the plans had to change.
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We saw it last night in theater and enjoyed it. Like mentioned above a lot of material to try and capture in the limited time (even at over 2.5 hours) but every scene played well and earned its spot. Music and visuals were excellent and there was solid acting throughout. I read the book years ago, my wife never has but thought there was enough context given to make it enjoyable even without all the backstory info.
I’m going to try and see it again in an imax theater…I thoroughly enjoyed BR2049 on additional viewings and expect the same with this.
IKnowNotEverything
10-31-21, 19:49
Watched it last night w a few friends and some strong beers. The movie is awesome, and I want the 3 and a half hour directors cut. Very happy they greenlit part two.
We watched it in two segments on HBO because my wife said I was snoring too loud and she stopped it during the 1st attempt. It was OK, but certainly could have been great. Split over 2 movies and given the advances in CGI/special effects, I found it disappointing. I must have slept through an important part.
I was expecting the main character to either be a girl, trans, or fall in love with a Fremen dude - none of which happened.
Andy
I liked it better when Paul recited The Litany Against Fear, no Jessica.
Nobody can top Sting's acting in the ending knife fight of the 84' film LOL!
I watched the new movie and immediately re-watched the 1984 version to compare and was surprised how close the story lined up. Of course there were certain interpretations done differently.
One example is that the weirding modules in the 84' film are made up. The weirding way in the book is more of a martial art short distance teleportation skill.
Voice projection weapons in the 84' film seem more future appropriate than edged weapon fighting though.
The ornothopters in the new film being insect like instead of a flying leather couch room from the 84' film is a cool improvement.
Worms in 84' version have that triangular mouth instead of a butt hole opening. [emoji1787]
Hammer_Man
11-04-21, 23:09
I give this movie a B+. I feel the acting was pretty solid all around. Character development felt a bit rushed. My only gripe was the sound often overpowered the dialogue, which made it difficult to follow along at times.
I give this movie a B+. I feel the acting was pretty solid all around. Character development felt a bit rushed. My only gripe was the sound often overpowered the dialogue, which made it difficult to follow along at times.
Another reason I'll wait to see it at home. I hate ThunderSurround. As a DJ I love superior sound, but just as they can overdo the CGI, they can overdo the rumble mood crap. Once in Florida I was watching something so bad I actually thought a storm had blown in.
If you want a laugh watch the 1984 version of Dune on HBO Max. I forgot how bad the movie was.
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If you want a laugh watch the 1984 version of Dune on HBO Max. I forgot how bad the movie was.
I never forgot how bad that movie was...
I never forgot how bad that movie was...
I rewatched the 1984 Dune, followed by the new one again. Gave me a new appreciation for the new one. Updating my rating to B+.
Also, rewatched Blade Runner 2049. Even though I enjoyed it the first couple of times, this time was definitely better. Really is an overall excellent film. Glad you made the suggestion.
I rewatched the 1984 Dune, followed by the new one again. Gave me a new appreciation for the new one. Updating my rating to B+.
Also, rewatched Blade Runner 2049. Even though I enjoyed it the first couple of times, this time was definitely better. Really is an overall excellent film. Glad you made the suggestion.
As promised, it is worth viewing more than a few times and once you do, you realize it is a worthy addition and follow up film to BR, and that's one hell of an accomplishment considering BL is as close to a perfect movie as it comes.
I saw 84 Dune in theaters when it came out, and was close to walking out. It's garbage. Always thought Lynch was wildly overrated, and was the wrong person to direct that story anyway.
I think B+ is a fair rating for this Dune, and perhaps part II will be better, and that's a good possibility I think with such a quality director.
I saw 84 Dune in theaters when it came out, and was close to walking out. It's garbage. Always thought Lynch was wildly overrated, and was the wrong person to direct that story anyway.
That film was going to be a challenge no matter who directed it. I think they went with Lynch because the story was weird and the probably felt they needed a weird director to pull it off. And while I agree he hurt it in several ways, I can think of dozens of ways it could have been much worse.
As a "cult" film I enjoy it. As mainstream sci fi it fails horribly.
Maybe Ridley Scott could have pulled it off, maybe he didn't want anything to do with it.
I always wonder what a John Boorman version would have looked like. He often nails stuff like this and he's not afraid of huge stories like Excalibur.
SilverBullet432
11-07-21, 22:14
Disclaimer: I’ve never read the book or seen the original movie, but I am hoping for a Batista/Momoa fight in Part 2. It just has to happen…
Disclaimer: I’ve never read the book or seen the original movie, but I am hoping for a Batista/Momoa fight in Part 2. It just has to happen…
Without giving anything away, that is unlikely to happen in part two.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
11-08-21, 18:05
Finally got a chance to watch it. I know nothing of Dune prior to this, which is probably why I really enjoyed it. Very expansive universe with a large story to tell. I look forward to the rest of the series.
If you want a laugh watch the 1984 version of Dune on HBO Max. I forgot how bad the movie was.
Sent from my SM-N986U using TapatalkIt was on Friday. I got as far as when they were riding the worm before I couldn't deal with it any longer! The whole thing, up to that point, seemed like a series of vaguely connecting short stories. I was sitting there going...who? What?
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It was on Friday. I got as far as when they were riding the worm before I couldn't deal with it any longer! The whole thing, up to that point, seemed like a series of vaguely connecting short stories. I was sitting there going...who? What?
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Did you read the book?
Did you read the book?No. Actually didn't know about it until just recently. I do however remember seeing bits and pieces of it throughout the years. Since I always stumbled onto it somewhere in the middle I just thought it was some low budget scifi and changed the channel within a min
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No. Actually didn't know about it until just recently. I do however remember seeing bits and pieces of it throughout the years. Since I always stumbled onto it somewhere in the middle I just thought it was some low budget scifi and changed the channel within a min
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If you didn't read the book, the movies will make no sense per my review in this thread. First movie attempt was garbage that was so bad it's become something of a cult classic (1) , and the latest is a best case scenario attempt of a book that just simply can't be done justice as a movie, and will really only make sense if one reads the book.
(1) With a few exceptions "Cult classic" is often code for a movie that sucked so bad it's actually fun to watch.
Adrenaline_6
11-09-21, 11:51
Very few movies do justice to the book. Just the time constraint alone makes it improbable. Hell, in Clancy's C&PD, there was quite a bit of a chapter on the cellulose bomb's design. In Sum of All Fears, he went into pretty good detail on how a nuclear bomb works. You just can't do that in a movie.
Very few movies do justice to the book. Just the time constraint alone makes it improbable. Hell, in Clancy's C&PD, there was quite a bit of a chapter on the cellulose bomb's design. In Sum of All Fears, he went into pretty good detail on how a nuclear bomb works. You just can't do that in a movie.
I prefer Clancy based movies over his books any day my self, but it's true, difficult to do books justice depending on the book. LOR did a an amazingly good job in 3 parts, and believe or not, the made for TV series on Shogun was quite good. Neither required reading the books to understand them or enjoy them.
Dune however appears a different animal in that respect.
Adrenaline_6
11-09-21, 13:03
I prefer Clancy based movies over his books any day my self, but it's true, difficult to do books justice depending on the book. LOR did a an amazingly good job in 3 parts, and believe or not, the made for TV series on Shogun was quite good. Neither required reading the books to understand them or enjoy them.
Dune however appears a different animal in that respect.
Other than Hunt for the Red October, which was borderline, all the other Clancy movies sucked. I can't even imagine trying to do Red Storm Rising in a movie format. Too many moving pieces and locations. Most people's head would blow up.
(1) With a few exceptions "Cult classic" is often code for a movie that sucked so bad it's actually fun to watch.
No that is MST3k fodder but I admit there is so overlap.
Cult films are those without the budget or other necessary ingredients to do them correctly but they did them anyhow. And while they might have missed this or that, they succeeded in so many areas they remain interesting, but they are still not a mainstream film and definitely not a successful mainstream film.
Blade Runner is probably a cult film because back then so few understood it and so many hated it.
Other than Hunt for the Red October, which was borderline, all the other Clancy movies sucked. I can't even imagine trying to do Red Storm Rising in a movie format. Too many moving pieces and locations. Most people's head would blow up.
Was that the one Japan gets revenge? I could not even get through that book. I read I think 2 Clancy novels, and part of that one, and found his stuff not to my liking, yet, I did generally enjoy the early Clancy based movies with Ford in them, found Clancy wildly overrated writer.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-21, 14:55
I had remorse after reading "With out Remorse"... When Ryan becomes the POTUS, they jumped the shark. It's been downhill from there.
Red Storm Rising would have to be miniseries, and what that would be awesome.
Adrenaline_6
11-09-21, 15:12
Was that the one Japan gets revenge? I could not even get through that book. I read I think 2 Clancy novels, and part of that one, and found his stuff not to my liking, yet, I did generally enjoy the early Clancy based movies with Ford in them, found Clancy wildly overrated writer.
No, it was Russia. Non-nuclear. Very good. I highly recommend reading that one. Like ColdDeadHand mentions, it would have to be a mini series (an extended one at that)...and if done right, would be amazing.
Sum of all Fears and Clear and Present Danger...also good. All early Clancy.
So sat down and watched the original again and it doesn't hold up well. Even worse I found more things I didn't like.
They seemed to want to inject a lot of ancient religion from judaism it islam and I swear to god hearing "jihad" and "holy warriors" felt much different this time around. Maybe the producers were hoping for global appeal, maybe they didn't know they were appeasing savages.
I also didn't notice all the blatant Star Wars rips that existed in this film, and honestly almost every other sci fi film of the early 80s and how badly they failed to borrow. When the Guild navigator folds space the scene is anti climatic and sorta "what?!?" compared to the Millennium Falcon jumping to light speed which in a single scene depicted everything anyone needed to see to understand.
Instead of light sabers they had weirding modules which were probably the best named concept of any of the concepts. The spice worms did nothing special except for establish a premise for Tremors in 1990 that was far, far superior.
The reverend mothers were stupid, surviving the ordeal of drinking the water of life was half assed occultism / vampirism. The Baron with his severe acne issue and the rest of the Harkonnens including Sting "I will kill him" (I guess if you say it enough to tend to believe but still didn't work) were the lamest bad guys I've seen in awhile.
The book was strange, the film was stranger and the sci fi was more avante guarde than sci fi. It was only sci fi so much as it was set in space. They also tried to create an epic and this is no more evident than in the soundtrack by Toto which was as far from epic as any other part of the film. I think that is why this film has so profound cult status.
It's not an obvious z grade film like Battle Beyond the Stars and has enough people really trying to make it work that it appears like a misunderstood masterpiece. But no...it really is a crappy kind of disjointed film with stupid ideas that many, many people invested way too much money and effort in. It is the sci fi equivalent of Street of Fire which is the other WTF film of 1984 that had it's moments but was mostly WTF is this shit and you didn't want to say this is stupid out of fear you didn't grasp the essential "coolness" of the film so you simply went along with it.
But we had a LOT of crazy films in 1984, including...well 1984. The very scary thing is they were all probably superior to Time Bandits (1981) and Howard the Duck (1986).
Adrenaline_6
11-23-21, 09:31
So sat down and watched the original again and it doesn't hold up well. Even worse I found more things I didn't like.
They seemed to want to inject a lot of ancient religion from judaism it islam and I swear to god hearing "jihad" and "holy warriors" felt much different this time around. Maybe the producers were hoping for global appeal, maybe they didn't know they were appeasing savages.
I also didn't notice all the blatant Star Wars rips that existed in this film, and honestly almost every other sci fi film of the early 80s and how badly they failed to borrow. When the Guild navigator folds space the scene is anti climatic and sorta "what?!?" compared to the Millennium Falcon jumping to light speed which in a single scene depicted everything anyone needed to see to understand.
Instead of light sabers they had weirding modules which were probably the best named concept of any of the concepts. The spice worms did nothing special except for establish a premise for Tremors in 1990 that was far, far superior.
The reverend mothers were stupid, surviving the ordeal of drinking the water of life was half assed occultism / vampirism. The Baron with his severe acne issue and the rest of the Harkonnens including Sting "I will kill him" (I guess if you say it enough to tend to believe but still didn't work) were the lamest bad guys I've seen in awhile.
The book was strange, the film was stranger and the sci fi was more avante guarde than sci fi. It was only sci fi so much as it was set in space. They also tried to create an epic and this is no more evident than in the soundtrack by Toto which was as far from epic as any other part of the film. I think that is why this film has so profound cult status.
It's not an obvious z grade film like Battle Beyond the Stars and has enough people really trying to make it work that it appears like a misunderstood masterpiece. But no...it really is a crappy kind of disjointed film with stupid ideas that many, many people invested way too much money and effort in. It is the sci fi equivalent of Street of Fire which is the other WTF film of 1984 that had it's moments but was mostly WTF is this shit and you didn't want to say this is stupid out of fear you didn't grasp the essential "coolness" of the film so you simply went along with it.
But we had a LOT of crazy films in 1984, including...well 1984. The very scary thing is they were all probably superior to Time Bandits (1981) and Howard the Duck (1986).
The Dune book was written in 1965. You could say Star Wars ripped the Dune book.
The Dune book was written in 1965. You could say Star Wars ripped the Dune book.
But it was the visuals, rather than the ideas, that were being copied...or trying to be copied.
The_War_Wagon
11-23-21, 16:09
So, pretty much like the original then.
The original got me to reading the books.
I really don't mind the original, that production stuff doesn't really bother me as much. Don't get me wrong some of it is definitely funny considering how well done "Alien" was for the era. I actually found the low production values, early CGI and wooden acting more distracting in the early 2000s Sci Fi channel series. However they made up for it in fleshing the story out some more.
You could always tell they we're trying to cram 10lbs into the proverbial 5lb bag. My range buddy read the book and we've talked about it over the years, so that's advanced my understanding of things too. I can see how hard it is for many people to follow. I think even the new one will leave a few people in the dark. They haven't really driven home the importance of the spice or the Mentats. They really didn't get into Imperial conditioning either, but it was nice to see Duncan Idaho do something besides die. And proper Orinthopters, finally!
I really dig the new cast too, though I think a cameo by Patrick Stewart or Sting would have been fun. I especially was digging me some Rebecca Ferguson. Definitely awaiting the next movie.
Did anyone ever play the Dune computer game?(early 1990s?), was pretty much "Command and Conquer" or "StarCraft" before they were around.
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You could always tell they we're trying to cram 10lbs into the proverbial 5lb bag. My range buddy read the book and we've talked about it over the years, so that's advanced my understanding of things too. I can see how hard it is for many people to follow. I think even the new one will leave a few people in the dark.
Yeah, that's one of it's biggest problems. It's a LOT of story to take in.
I usually do things backwards. If I see an interesting movie, I read the book. It really helps me to organize the who is who by using the film as a sort of outline and frame of reference so taking in all the additional information becomes easier.
Except with Dune. I read the book and was still lost trying to organize who was who. Probably took six viewings of the film before I really had a decent handle on the story. By contrast, films like Blade Runner are much more complex but without the 16 page cast of characters.
Christ even The Godfather was easier to follow and that had a dozen subplots and the audience was forced to figure out who was who and what was what along with the characters.
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