View Full Version : Kyle Rittenhouse Trial Thread - TRIAL CONTENT AND DISCUSSION ONLY
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-27-21, 18:29
I think we should close this thread and start a new one that just looks at the trial
I think we should close this thread and start a new one that just looks at the trial
Done. Participants, please keep this thread focused on the trial and content directly and distinctly related thereto.
The judge might be sympathetic. The low lifes Kyle was forced to shoot can not be called victims, just looters and rioters.
eightmillimeter
10-27-21, 21:49
The judge might be sympathetic. The low lifes Kyle was forced to shoot can not be called victims, just looters and rioters.
That’s not “entirely” accurate. The ruling states the defense “may” refer to the victims as “rioters” or “looters” if they provide satisfactory evidence of each person’s involvement in rioting or looting.
That’s not “entirely” accurate. The ruling states the defense “may” refer to the victims as “rioters” or “looters” if they provide satisfactory evidence of each person’s involvement in rioting or looting.
Thanks for the correction.
That’s not “entirely” accurate. The ruling states the defense “may” refer to the victims as “rioters” or “looters” if they provide satisfactory evidence of each person’s involvement in rioting or looting.
That's a low F'ing bar. If I'm participating in a riot but don't personally destroy anything, that doesn't make me just an innocent bystander. By contributing to numbers, you help create an environment where rioting and looting can occur. And if I'm an innocent bystander in a group that suddenly starts engaging in looting and rioting, I'm creating distance for just that reason.
That’s not “entirely” accurate. The ruling states the defense “may” refer to the victims as “rioters” or “looters” if they provide satisfactory evidence of each person’s involvement in rioting or looting.
"First, ABC News reported that prosecutors cannot refer to the three men shot dead by Rittenhouse as “victims,” stating that “the word ‘victim’ is a loaded, loaded word.”
The defense, however, will be allowed to call the men rioters, looters, and arsonists.
"If more than one of them were engaged in arson, rioting, looting, I'm not going to tell the defense you can't call them that," Schroeder declared.
Averageman
10-28-21, 07:04
You know time has worked hard against the prosecution. If you weren't sick to death of riots before Rittenhouse, you got to sit back and watch more riots and then the hypocracy our new Justice Department has foisted upon us along with the riots.
I would say he's sitting in the Cat Bird seat right now.
You know time has worked hard against the prosecution. If you weren't sick to death of riots before Rittenhouse, you got to sit back and watch more riots and then the hypocracy our new Justice Department has foisted upon us along with the riots.
I would say he's sitting in the Cat Bird seat right now.
I agree. It is criminal that an accused right to a speedy trial has fallen victim to overwhelmed courts, but I think it may work in his favor. If nothing else, it put distance between the George Floyd BS and Kyle fighting for his life during the riots.
Andy
Averageman
10-28-21, 07:35
I agree. It is criminal that an accused right to a speedy trial has fallen victim to overwhelmed courts, but I think it may work in his favor. If nothing else, it put distance between the George Floyd BS and Kyle fighting for his life during the riots.
Andy
Oh I would agree, but these are devisive times, people are getting really tired of it.
We have a border crisis, an economic crisis, an energy crisis, a supply-chain crisis, a health crisis, a crime wave, a labor shortage, inflation, and stranded Americans still in Afghanistan. People are waking up to all of this.
Just enough time has lapsed, just tnough Biden Pains have occured, I hope everyone on the jury is smart enough to STFU, walk in there and vote him not-guilty.
I'm seeing on SM where antifa is threatening to riot if he is found innocent...time to scare the jury pool. Sound familiar??
Threaten right back to put them down if they riot, while making the opposite claim that if he's not found innocent of all charges because he was defending himself we'll be the one's rioting.
Deadman William
10-28-21, 11:51
That's a low F'ing bar. If I'm participating in a riot but don't personally destroy anything, that doesn't make me just an innocent bystander. By contributing to numbers, you help create an environment where rioting and looting can occur. And if I'm an innocent bystander in a group that suddenly starts engaging in looting and rioting, I'm creating distance for just that reason.
if youre participating in a riot but not participating in the rioting youre not participating in a riot.
is a ride-long observer suddenly a cop because he's riding around in cop cars going to calls all night?
Averageman
10-28-21, 12:24
if youre participating in a riot but not participating in the rioting youre not participating in a riot.
is a ride-long observer suddenly a cop because he's riding around in cop cars going to calls all night?
If your participation provides both cover and concealment, your an accessory.
if youre participating in a riot but not participating in the rioting youre not participating in a riot.
is a ride-long observer suddenly a cop because he's riding around in cop cars going to calls all night?
Jesus dude, I don't know if you just like arguing for the sake of it, or if you're just trolling, but you're reminding some of us of another leftist retard that got shown the door. This isn't hard: all three guys attacked him. The first guy unprovoked, and the last two in retaliation for what their friend got. Whether they were, themselves, rioting or not is pretty much immaterial to the salient fact that they all were the aggressors and got instant karma.
Averageman
10-28-21, 12:44
Jesus dude, I don't know if you just like arguing for the sake of it, or if you're just trolling, but you're reminding some of us of another leftist retard that got shown the door. This isn't hard: all three guys attacked him. The first guy unprovoked, and the last two in retaliation for what their friend got. Whether they were, themselves, rioting or not is pretty much immaterial to the salient fact that they all were the aggressors and got instant karma.
Good Points,
But early in, all of these folks photo's were put out there that showing all three of them rioting individually before this all came together in the vicinity of the Gas Station.
This should be a slam dunk.
IIRC both of the deceased and the one with the slight bicep scratch...were all on video doing something illegal at one point or another, no? Bullet catcher number one was seen lighting something (a dumpster next to a building) on fire and Rittenhouse put it out which started the bad blood that led to this fine upstanding individual chasing Rittenhouse down the block. So I'm saying, hard to refute video if they show it; and I think there's plenty of it.
if youre participating in a riot but not participating in the rioting youre not participating in a riot.
is a ride-long observer suddenly a cop because he's riding around in cop cars going to calls all night?
That's a seriously bad analogy.
if youre participating in a riot but not participating in the rioting youre not participating in a riot.
is a ride-long observer suddenly a cop because he's riding around in cop cars going to calls all night?
Tell that to all the folks getting swept up in the Capitol "insurrection" who were walking about...
Averageman
10-28-21, 12:58
Tell that to all the folks getting swept up in the Capitol "insurrection" who were walking about...
Very Good Point !
Deadman William
10-28-21, 13:43
Jesus dude, I don't know if you just like arguing for the sake of it, or if you're just trolling, but you're reminding some of us of another leftist retard that got shown the door. This isn't hard: all three guys attacked him. The first guy unprovoked, and the last two in retaliation for what their friend got. Whether they were, themselves, rioting or not is pretty much immaterial to the salient fact that they all were the aggressors and got instant karma.
likewise, whether or not im a leftist retard is immaterial to the topic. and youre arguing against an argument i havent made. rittenhouse might be innocent, he might be a murderer. when it doesnt seem cut and dried to me, its odd that it is so cut and dried to others... and i suspect political bias plays a larger roll in what position people are choosing than the actual facts.
if i see bad arguments, i may point them out. mr. aug made a bad argument, i pointed it out. from what ive seen around here so far, thats very atypical for him.
likewise, whether or not im a leftist retard is immaterial to the topic. and youre arguing against an argument i havent made. rittenhouse might be innocent, he might be a murderer. when it doesnt seem cut and dried to me, its odd that it is so cut and dried to others... and i suspect political bias plays a larger roll in what position people are choosing than the actual facts.
if i see bad arguments, i may point them out. mr. aug made a bad argument, i pointed it out. from what ive seen around here so far, thats very atypical for him.
Your point is loosely that association does not guilt make. Maybe, and maybe not. As those guys were seen rioting. Either way, all of that is immaterial. Did they, or did they not attack Rittenhouse is the only question. Getting caught up as to whether or not they can be called rioters is like arguing about if the color red is sweet or not.
Honestly, the only question is if the conviced child rapist attacked him. Everything else is on video. Skatr boi was self defense, as was disarming the cat pointing a pistol at him unless the first shooting is found to be a crime.
Andy
That's a seriously bad analogy.
It is a terrible analogy, but whether they were or where not actually involved in the "festivities" or not, will that be considered relevant to the case? I'm not an attorney, and don't know that state laws and such, but I'm assuming what will be considered relevant was whether there's enough evidence to convince a jury they attacked him, he was in the eyes of the law in legit fear serious bodily harm/death, and his use of deadly force then justified.
Will the defense attempt to use their behavior that night in general as evidence of intent to also go after the kid? Is that admissible?
I'm unclear on that, but I do know what we often think/assume will be used as evidence and should be, is often not. It does sound like the judge is not going to allow the prosecution to paint them as victims, and that's a good sign at least the judge seems to care it's a balanced trial.
I will be interested to see what the evidence shows vs what we know from the articles and such.
I tend to think he will get convicted of some minor charges but not on serious charges that will seem him in prison for any length of time.
I assume the prosecutor has developed a long list of charges to use as a bargaining chip to attempt to get the defense to agree to a lesser charge at some point once it gets down to that aspect of the case.
Honestly, the only question is if the conviced child rapist attacked him. Everything else is on video. Skatr boi was self defense, as was disarming the woman beater unless the first shooting is found to be a crime.
Andy
At one point I did see a video of child molester chasing Kyle around some cars and before that taunting him, "Shoot me!" I don't remember the details now, but Kyle was actively trying to distance himself from the dude, on video.
It is a terrible analogy, but whether they were or where not actually involved in the "festivities" or not, will that be considered relevant to the case? I'm not an attorney, and don't know that state laws and such, but I'm assuming what will be considered relevant was whether there's enough evidence to convince a jury they attacked him, he was in the eyes of the law in legit fear serious bodily harm/death, and his use of deadly force then justified.
Will the defense attempt to use their behavior that night in general as evidence of intent to also go after the kid? Is that admissible?
I'm unclear on that, but I do know what we often think/assume will be used as evidence and should be, is often not. It does sound like the judge is not going to allow the prosecution to paint them as victims, and that's a good sign at least the judge seems to care it's a balanced trial.
I will be interested to see what the evidence shows vs what we know from the articles and such.
I tend to think he will get convicted of some minor charges but not on serious charges that will seem him in prison for any length of time.
I assume the prosecutor has developed a long list of charges to use as a bargaining chip to attempt to get the defense to agree to a lesser charge at some point once it gets down to that aspect of the case.
It's always a crap shoot when it comes to juries. What they will believe in this case is anybody's guess, considering the volatile times we live in. At least his attorneys can introduce evidence to the effect that these guys were malefactors trying to hurt him. From their backgrounds and the video, it's pretty obvious to most of us here that they were trying to hurt him bad or kill him without justification. I would think evidence pointing to the dead guys intent or malicious acts would be admissible in any self defense case or how else could it be proven who the good or bad guy is.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-28-21, 14:54
And if does beat the state rap, how much you want to bet ole non-partisan Garland will file Fed charges?
Only Antifa would say that they are going to riot - to protest that it’s legal to shoot….. rioters…. Wonder how that would end.
Any thoughts on the length of the case? Done before thanksgiving? Christmas? I might be in that area to visit family and I won’t have my ‘anti anti-social gear’ with me.
I really hope we get to see the defense lawyer Barnes in action. He talks a good game on that Viva Frei legal podcast. Let’s see him in real time.
What an pivotal time. Kyle’s case and the NY gun case at SCOTUS.
Deadman William
10-28-21, 15:06
Your point is loosely that association does not guilt make. Maybe, and maybe not. As those guys were seen rioting. Either way, all of that is immaterial. Did they, or did they not attack Rittenhouse is the only question. Getting caught up as to whether or not they can be called rioters is like arguing about if the color red is sweet or not.
negative - whether or not they attacked him is not the only question. it's ignoring half the question, and will not be ignored in court. those that attacked rittenhouse claim they attacked him for the purpose of subduing and disarming him after concluding he was an active shooter, having witnessed him shooting at others.
i take no sides. i wasn't there, and it's clearly obvious all reporting on the issue aligns with political bias. Right-leaning outlets essentially report rittenhouse is not guilty and report on evidence favorable to that claim; Left-leaning media reports that rittenhouse is guilty and report on evidence favorable to that claim. likewise, it's been my observation that strong opinions from individuals invariably split along political bias. in short: i don't trust either camp, both are lying. as with almost all things which split along political bias.
negative - whether or not they attacked him is not the only question. it's ignoring half the question, and will not be ignored in court. those that attacked rittenhouse claim they attacked him for the purpose of subduing and disarming him after concluding he was an active shooter, having witnessed him shooting at others.
i take no sides. i wasn't there, and it's clearly obvious all reporting on the issue aligns with political bias. Right-leaning outlets essentially report rittenhouse is not guilty and report on evidence favorable to that claim; Left-leaning media reports that rittenhouse is guilty and report on evidence favorable to that claim. likewise, it's been my observation that strong opinions from individuals invariably split along political bias. in short: i don't trust either camp, both are lying. as with almost all things which split along political bias.
Good point regarding confirmation and political biases. However, I've watched the videos. He was pursued and attacked by child molester as he was trying to get away, and though it can be argued that skateboard and the one arm bandit were pursuing him because they reasonably believed him to be the aggressor in the earlier confrontation (perhaps not being privy to the entire picture), what will become germane is whether a reasonable person - who had just defended himself from an attack - again believed himself to be in danger of grievous bodily harm.
I think his entire defense is going to center around whether the first shooting was justified. If it was, it's going to be an extremely tall hill to climb to say that the last two weren't, as the video makes it clear that he's retreating and being pursued by a guy swinging a deadly weapon at his head, and a guy with a gun pretending to be a medic.
Political bias has nothing to do with the facts. One guy he shot was trying to crush his skull with a skateboard, one had drawn a firearm and was pointing it at him. Their motivation for attempting to kill him is irrelevant, he was acting in self defense. The prosecution should never have been allowed to charge him for those two actions.
The unknown at this point is the first shooting.
Andy
I don't see how anyone can't see self defense with all the vids & 411 shared in the old thread...pretty clear the kid is getting railroaded.
Political bias has nothing to do with the facts. One guy he shot was trying to crush his skull with a skateboard, one had drawn a firearm and was pointing it at him. Their motivation for attempting to kill him is irrelevant, he was acting in self defense. The prosecution should never have been allowed to charge him for those two actions.
The unknown at this point is the first shooting.
Andy
This is the case in a nutshell for me. The charges should've been dropped. Call me a cynic, but I still firmly believe that at some point in these proceedings, someone will put their finger on the scales in favor of the prosecution That will be the end of Mr. Rittenhouse's life as he knew it. It's been a long while since I believed we have a justice system. We have a legal system, and it favors the powers wielding it with intent. I just don't believe that particular social battle zone, is capable of placing right & wrong above "public interest". :(
negative - whether or not they attacked him is not the only question. it's ignoring half the question, and will not be ignored in court. those that attacked rittenhouse claim they attacked him for the purpose of subduing and disarming him after concluding he was an active shooter, having witnessed him shooting at others.
i take no sides. i wasn't there, and it's clearly obvious all reporting on the issue aligns with political bias. Right-leaning outlets essentially report rittenhouse is not guilty and report on evidence favorable to that claim; Left-leaning media reports that rittenhouse is guilty and report on evidence favorable to that claim. likewise, it's been my observation that strong opinions from individuals invariably split along political bias. in short: i don't trust either camp, both are lying. as with almost all things which split along political bias.
How in the world do you get Kyle is seen as an active shooter out of this? Kyle fired a shot or two at a completely different location at a man bent on braining him. Then he stop shooting and took off because of a gathering bunch of looters and rioters...not shooting anymore...until he was chased down by some more looters and rioters. He didn't instigate either contacts, they did.
Deadman William
10-28-21, 17:07
How in the world do you get Kyle is seen as an active shooter out of this? Kyle fired a shot or two at a completely different location at a man bent on braining him. Then he stop shooting and took off because of a gathering bunch of looters and rioters...not shooting anymore...until he was chased down by some more looters and rioters. He didn't instigate either contacts, they did.
if your "you" is directed at me- i don't.
if your "you" is ambiguous- the argument is that these others observed rittenhouse shooting at others and had reason to believe he was shooting unarmed protestors and/or rioters. rittenhouse WAS obviously shooting at the three in a form of literal self-defense- in that they were physically attacking him, and with weapons. but the "affirmative defense" of self-defense is not accepted by the court when what you're claiming you were defending yourself from is behavior that was aimed at stopping you from committing offenses. make sense?
otherwise i could get into a shootout with cops, shoot a cop, and then claim self-defense- because we were engaged in combat and if i didn't shoot him, he would have shot me. he would have JUSTIFIABLY shot me, a judge would say, so, sorry, i can't use that as a defense.
so yes, whether or not it's determined that the three who attacked him were doing so out of self-defense/defense of others/citizens arrest will be a big determining factor. whether or not the previous shooting was justified may or may not come into it - depends on how the judge rules, on that one.
i think the second shooting can be tried in a vacuum, however - whether or not he's guilty or innocent in the first case may not actually have any bearing on his guilt or innocence in the second case, as it will be based on whether rittenhouse was shooting to escape capture for his crimes/prevent a justified attack upon himself, or shooting in honest self-defense. so i'm predicting it will have much more to do with whether or not the three who attacked him were justified in doing so. if so, rittenhouse is guilty of murder. if not, rittenhouse legally defended himself against serious bodily injury or death, as pretty much every states' statutes allows for.
it's a mess and has the potential to set unfortunate legal precedent.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-28-21, 17:10
How in the world do you get Kyle is seen as an active shooter out of this? Kyle fired a shot or two at a completely different location at a man bent on braining him. Then he stop shooting and took off because of a gathering bunch of looters and rioters...not shooting anymore...until he was chased down by some more looters and rioters. He didn't instigate either contacts, they did.
I think that is the key. Unless the two guys who attacked him as he went down the street have something besides 2nd hand info as to Kyle’s actions/intent, they weren’t warranted (at least in CO) to attack him. Kyle wasn’t threatening or shooting at that time. Remember, there were a lot of people running around with guns that night- and at least a few shooters.
DEfinately, if the first shoot is found to be self defense, the others have to be OK.
The facts and the law seem to be on Kyle’s side- which means that the prosecution is going to have to pound the table; hard- or worse.
Maybe Kyle and Bartman can get an apartment together out in the Chicago suburbs…
Watch this YouTube channel for some insights, direct from Barnes…
https://youtu.be/WK5_2imyfo8
The case will be broadcast on Court TV.
if your "you" is directed at me- i don't.
if your "you" is ambiguous- the argument is that these others observed rittenhouse shooting at others and had reason to believe he was shooting unarmed protestors and/or rioters. rittenhouse WAS obviously shooting at the three in a form of literal self-defense- in that they were physically attacking him, and with weapons. but the "affirmative defense" of self-defense is not accepted by the court when what you're claiming you were defending yourself from is behavior that was aimed at stopping you from committing offenses. make sense?
otherwise i could get into a shootout with cops, shoot a cop, and then claim self-defense- because we were engaged in combat and if i didn't shoot him, he would have shot me. he would have JUSTIFIABLY shot me, a judge would say, so, sorry, i can't use that as a defense.
so yes, whether or not it's determined that the three who attacked him were doing so out of self-defense/defense of others/citizens arrest will be a big determining factor. whether or not the previous shooting was justified may or may not come into it - depends on how the judge rules, on that one.
i think the second shooting can be tried in a vacuum, however - whether or not he's guilty or innocent in the first case may not actually have any bearing on his guilt or innocence in the second case, as it will be based on whether rittenhouse was shooting to escape capture for his crimes/prevent a justified attack upon himself, or shooting in honest self-defense. so i'm predicting it will have much more to do with whether or not the three who attacked him were justified in doing so. if so, rittenhouse is guilty of murder. if not, rittenhouse legally defended himself against serious bodily injury or death, as pretty much every states' statutes allows for.
it's a mess and has the potential to set unfortunate legal precedent.
I understand what you're saying, I just don't think the videos and the activities of any party involved would back that idea of stopping an active shooter up. Kyle wasn't acting like an active shooter from where I sit, but the prosecutors may well go that route.
As for being in shoot outs with cops, there are obviously bad and malevolent cops out there, there would be times where shooting a bad cop is definitely justified, rare occurrence no doubt. Would a judge allow a self defense argument in such a case? If the facts warrant it I would certainly hope so.
SeriousStudent
10-28-21, 17:40
Deadman William - stop posting in this thread for a bit. Also, you need to stop posting in GD for a while. It seems like all your posts are in GD, and I'd encourage you to take a break while we do some sorting and contemplation.
FYI - this isn't a request.
Gabriel556
10-28-21, 17:48
Thank you SS. I don’t post much elsewhere but it’s mainly because I’m not anywhere near an SME on any of the forum topics, but I do try to be objective and open minded on many topics I do participate in.
SeriousStudent
10-28-21, 17:53
Yer welcome. I have been away for a bit, it will take a moment for me to get back up to speed.
Diamondback
10-28-21, 18:07
Yer welcome. I have been away for a bit, it will take a moment for me to get back up to speed.
Thanks for tapping the brakes, SS; some supplemental thoughts sent by PM.
masenomics
10-28-21, 20:44
Seriousstudent thank you as a voice of reason as always! as many other veterans of this site thank you all.
Political bias has nothing to do with the facts. One guy he shot was trying to crush his skull with a skateboard, one had drawn a firearm and was pointing it at him. Their motivation for attempting to kill him is irrelevant, he was acting in self defense. The prosecution should never have been allowed to charge him for those two actions.
The unknown at this point is the first shooting.
Andy
A slight correction: The skateboarder was shot when he tried to steal the rifle from Kyle (after hitting Kyle with the edge of his board). Skater had the barrel of the gun in hand and was pointing the muzzle at his own torso and was pulling it when he was killed.
A slight correction: The skateboarder was shot when he tried to steal the rifle from Kyle (after hitting Kyle with the edge of his board). Skater had the barrel of the gun in hand and was pointing the muzzle at his own torso and was pulling it when he was killed.
You are correct, and thank you.
Andy
Here's an 11 minute Vimeo video that shows what happened. At around the 5 minute mark you will see how and why child molester is shot and killed.
https://vimeo.com/461063053
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-29-21, 10:02
Here's an 11 minute Vimeo video that shows what happened. At around the 5 minute mark you will see how and why child molester is shot and killed.
https://vimeo.com/461063053
https://vimeo.com/461063053
Link doesn’t show up in my browser. Looking forward to watching.
P2Vaircrewman
10-29-21, 10:05
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/10/text-version-with-links-to-statutes-jury-instructions-court-decisions-here-https-lawofselfdefense-com-an-excellent-day-for-rittenhouse-defense-at-pre-trial-hearing-free-book-the-law-of-se/
Participants, please keep this thread focused on the trial and content directly and distinctly related thereto.
https://vimeo.com/461063053
Link doesn’t show up in my browser. Looking forward to watching.
https://vimeo.com/461063053
vimeo.com/461063053
https://vimeo.com/461063053
vimeo.com/461063053
Assuming all the fact patterns and time frames, etc are accurate, and the fact it sounds like he's got a good defense and the judge not in line with the narrative those he shot were victims, he will be found guilty of the misdemeanor with time served.
We all know how this works, the state prosecutes, using state tax $ no less, to "send the message" that defending yourself will be costly no matter what, and "vigilantly justice" is frowned on even if they know the person was within their legal and Const Rights to do so.
I remember well as kid what happened with Bernard Getz. You all remember that case?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting
Legal Insurrection will be giving daily updates of the trial:
https://legalinsurrection.com/?s=rittenhouse
Kyle is a political target in this trial. I hope the DA drops the charges, if this trial becomes a political example I predict some significant kickback to all involved at multiple levels. Clear case of self defense of a youth from a mob. The prosecution is driven by the Left who are behind the riots, violence, and destruction. Many truly believe Kyle was looking to murder, which is obviously untrue, from the video evidence as he exhibited amazing restraint. The sad truth is we need to draw a line to what we tolerate from the Left who engage in violent and destructive mob rioting in the name of protest. Kyle is one of the first publicized targets, it will escalate in the future if we do not stop these radicals behind these riots. I personally blame the DNC but there are non US bad actors behind a lot of the protest violence and radicalization. China has cyber teams working overtime on social media to influence citizens. Russia is now working with China and Iran so do the math. This is an ongoing war where the battlefield is our neighborhoods and the enemy is systematically radicalizing our youth. I will also say this behavior is a strategy used by communists revolutionaries to destabilize regions prior to revolutions. The Democrats will never accept the gravity of this because they are complicit and they do not want to be held accountable for this in the history books. Sadly for them it's already written. So let's see who pushes to make an example of this young man and how this trial plays out.
FromMyColdDeadHand
10-30-21, 10:17
The MSM seems to be ignoring the trial? Maybe they know it is not going to go well. The have set the narrative that Kyle was a reckless, white-supremacist, gun nut. If they cover the trial and it shows differently, they have a problem. Keep that original narrative going and when he is found innocent, they will all act surprised and blame the local judge and demand FED charges.
Sadly the media is the propaganda machine for the Left. So the less coverage the better for Kyle. If the judges are corrupt they may be less likely to make a biased decisions with less media coverage. In the Derek Chauvin trial, he was clearly negligent by kneeling on George Floyd's neck for so long. However, Chauvin was not afforded a fair trial die to the media and the politicized nature of it. At this point I hope Kyle gets a fair trial, but the DA should have already dropped the charges in favor of self defense, and charged him with other crimes of need be. Just because he is a kid doesn't mean he is not afforded his right to defend life and limb, these rioters were violent and armed criminals. I believe it's time to push back if Kyle does not get a fair trial.
I believe it's time to push back if Kyle does not get a fair trial.
That is your line in the sand? All the things that have been happening in recent years and this is your deal breaker? Its not time to push back already? Should we not push back that they've even charged him with these crimes in spite of obvious and abundant evidence to the contrary?
That is your line in the sand? All the things that have been happening in recent years and this is your deal breaker? Its not time to push back already? Should we not push back that they've even charged him with these crimes in spite of obvious and abundant evidence to the contrary?
Yes. I don't reveal my hand but I have been working with my reps for some years now, and legislation. While I understand there are many activist judges throughout the nation that should be disbarred or hung for their crimes against the US Constitution, so far they have largely refused to take cases to trial. Kyle's trial could be a turn in the tide: if they refuse him a fair trial. Chauvin's trial was clearly questionable, but he was guilty of negligence. Murder? Who knows. Kyle's trial is a different animal, and he should not be charged to begin with let alone with murder or manslaughter. Politicians are embedded in the judicial system, and they should not be. So moving forward, if Kyle's rights are violated, we need to take swift action against those behind it. This may sound complex but this can be done quickly with existing checks and balances.
Law of Self Defense podcast has a great overview.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/law-of-self-defense-news-q-a/id1546136066?i=1000539956646
I just wanted to mention I donated twice to his legal fund. Every little bit helps I'm sure. I have no doubt if this incident was not politicized by the media, Kyle would be in school right now. I agree with most here, that if this goes south we need to take action. We need to list the names and titles of the prosecution, all jurists involved, the DA and everyone in the chain of command. We need to have Kyle's legal team FOIA all communications records of the prosecution. We need to keep track of which media outlets publish propaganda and identify the funding streams behind it. This will go a long way to identify those behind what we will ultimately have to face in the not too distant future to restore law and order. Watch for jurists seeking immunity in the case. We can learn a lot from this. Antifa has already flexed: I believe they have zero skin in the game other than looking to justify more rioting and send the message that they can get away with it and to stay out of their way. This is the worst possible outcome if they can influence the judiciary into turning their backs on law and order. For those of you who may not know, Antifa cells were led by wealthy European kids from UK and France. They have ties to heavy hitting leadership in EU. Most being self proclaimed Anarchists, but I would venture to guess that their parents are red, green, and labor party. I believe it's a ruse and they are spinning anarchy to gain US recruits. Their leadership structure is really quiet, they tend to be self proclaimed queer anarchists and have very wealthy backers, and spend their free time doing a lot of recreational drugs. This is their MO.
I just wanted to mention I donated twice to his legal fund. Every little bit helps I'm sure. I have no doubt if this incident was not politicized by the media, Kyle would be in school right now. I agree with most here, that if this goes south we need to take action. We need to list the names and titles of the prosecution, all jurists involved, the DA and everyone in the chain of command. We need to have Kyle's legal team FOIA all communications records of the prosecution. We need to keep track of which media outlets publish propaganda and identify the funding streams behind it. This will go a long way to identify those behind what we will ultimately have to face in the not too distant future to restore law and order. Watch for jurists seeking immunity in the case. We can learn a lot from this. Antifa has already flexed: I believe they have zero skin in the game other than looking to justify more rioting and send the message that they can get away with it and to stay out of their way. This is the worst possible outcome if they can influence the judiciary into turning their backs on law and order. For those of you who may not know, Antifa cells were led by wealthy European kids from UK and France. They have ties to heavy hitting leadership in EU. Most being self proclaimed Anarchists, but I would venture to guess that their parents are red, green, and labor party. I believe it's a ruse and they are spinning anarchy to gain US recruits. Their leadership structure is really quiet, they tend to be self proclaimed queer anarchists and have very wealthy backers, and spend their free time doing a lot of recreational drugs. This is their MO.
A start on who owns US media.
https://youtu.be/M_dv8CxMspc
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-21, 15:02
Sounds like the jury won’t be sequestered…
Diamondback
11-01-21, 15:04
Sounds like the jury won’t be sequestered…
Not to mention a bit of a poochscrew with infighting on defense counsel. Local lead won't let the jury expert in on jury selection...
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/11/01/rittenhouse-defense-team-implodes-hours-before-jury-selection-n1528505
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-21, 15:12
Amazing to watch people try so hard to get off this case. I guess some of them are better not to have on there at all. I guess it’s the real stealth minds that we have to worry about.
I have no idea why that local dumb ass lawyer would not take the information that Barnes could provide. The only negative I could think is if the jury pool thinks that Kyle has all these resources and that’s a negative. Without Barnes on the team Kyle‘s chances just went down 20%.
Court Tv anchor just called it an AK-15…..
Diamondback
11-01-21, 15:26
Amazing to watch people try so hard to get off this case. I guess some of them are better not to have on there at all. I guess it’s the real stealth minds that we have to worry about.
If you were potentially on a jury where an angry mob was already threatening to burn your house down if you don't render the verdict they want, wouldn't YOU want to bail?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-21, 15:36
That they are even talking to a juror who has expressed very anti-gun opinions and would have difficulty divorcing that from overall guilt, I don’t know why they’re not getting rid of her right away.
And then she says that she’s very susceptible to threats of violence to the jury.
In the cherry on top of all that is she thinks certain vertex will lead to repercussions in the community, that she lives in.
Why are they even talking to this lady still. How can you even think that this lady can give any kind of objective analysis and decision on this case.
Did Rittenhouse have the opportunity or the alternative to skip the jury and go with a judge? Especially this judge? There is no way that you were going to end up with a jury without one landmine in it at least.
Diamondback
11-01-21, 15:37
That they are even talking to a juror who has expressed very anti-gun opinions and would have difficulty divorcing that from overall guilt, I don’t know why they’re not getting rid of her right away.
That's the kind of Unforced Error that makes you wonder if the Defense aren't throwing the game like they did on Chauvin.
Not to mention a bit of a poochscrew with infighting on defense counsel. Local lead won't let the jury expert in on jury selection...
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/11/01/rittenhouse-defense-team-implodes-hours-before-jury-selection-n1528505
Shit. Day one and it's already going sideways.
Diamondback
11-01-21, 18:34
Not to mention that it already looks like the jury pool is tainted and no Change of Venue or sequestering... because you KNOW the shitstains who started this are gonna do a "give us his head or we burn down the whole damn town starting with jurors' houses."
If Leftists want to be violent like feral animals they should be locked up in cages like animals. Wall off the Concrete Jungles and let them burn, and figure out how to supply food and power for themselves. Make everyone who passes through the gates into the walled-off Free Range Asylums sign a no-hostage agreement.
Anyone who is openly anti-gun or has ties to politics in the jury should be dismissed. This is simply not about guns and politics, it's about Kyle's actions and the actions of his attackers. Having a Defense withdraw is suspect. We need to be prepared to protest HARD if Kyle's defense is threatened or bought off. I can organize protests in my region take them to our reps offices.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-21, 23:01
https://youtu.be/rE8iX5eKXgA
Barnes starts at about 11:00
What I heard:
Kyle's defense is turning into a crap show.
Kyle is essentially a hostage of a guy named David Hancock.
Mark Richards is guilty of legal misspractice. Turned down jury selection info, investigative capability, legal background.
Defense not taking advantage of experts on jury selection- and didn't even take the info that had been
The fundraising is opaque. Kyle's mom was supposed be in charge of the money, but it isn't clear who is controlling it.
Right now, I think the best that Kyle can hope for is a hung jury. If that happens, hopefully they can get Barnes in the re-do.
Barnes is also going to start to take 1/6 cases. That should be a hoot...
The only positive is that Barnes is now free to do media.
Judge at least seems to be on the right page:
https://www.theblaze.com/news/rittenhouse-judge-slams-irresponsible-sloppy-journalism?utm_source=theblaze-breaking&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20211102Trending-RittenhouseJudge&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%20TheBlaze%20Breaking%20News
New fbi footage...
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/just-never-seen-fbi-footage-kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-shows-proof-acted-self-defense-wait-now-release-video/
and they held it til now...
and they held it til now...
We should probably be thankful it even still exists....being the FBI and all.
Amazing to watch people try so hard to get off this case. I guess some of them are better not to have on there at all. I guess it’s the real stealth minds that we have to worry about.
I have no idea why that local dumb ass lawyer would not take the information that Barnes could provide. The only negative I could think is if the jury pool thinks that Kyle has all these resources and that’s a negative. Without Barnes on the team Kyle‘s chances just went down 20%.
Court Tv anchor just called it an AK-15…..
No sane person would want anywhere near this shit show.
New fbi footage...
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/just-never-seen-fbi-footage-kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-shows-proof-acted-self-defense-wait-now-release-video/
Yep, the good old FBI with their finger on the scales once again. Why is this tolerated at all, much less for so long? "What's past is prologue" has never been more apt. :(
New fbi footage...
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/just-never-seen-fbi-footage-kyle-rittenhouse-shooting-shows-proof-acted-self-defense-wait-now-release-video/
Where is the video? I don't see it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-02-21, 17:49
Where is the video? I don't see it.
Is it the embeded video on that page from twitter? That has the FBI overhead imagery and then juxtaposed video from the ground- which makes for an unwatchable exhibit unless your slow it down and point out landmarks and relevant info.
You can blow up the vid here...
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1455581860633976832
I knew Rosenbaum was a scumbag but I missed that he had been released from a psych ward the same day he died. Why would this be inadmissible?
From legalinsurrection.com (https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/rittenhouse-trial-day-1-defense-dominates-opening-statements-first-witness-testimony/)
The second fact was that Rosenbaum had just that day been released from psychiatric care in a hospital.
...
The door to the psychiatric release that day was opened by Binger, the defense argued, when the state tried to explain away Rosenbaum’s plastic bag and perhaps garner jury sympathy for Rosenbaum and have him appear less threatening, by telling the jury that he had just been released from the hospital that day. Now the defense wanted the jury to know the nature of that hospital stay to have been psychiatric, as relevant to Rosenbaum’s erratic behavior that evening.
Fortunately for Binger, Judge Schroeder was sympathetic to the argument that the door had not been sufficiently opened, and the evidence not sufficiently relevant, that it ought to be included by the defense in opening statements, but conceded he’d be willing to hear argument on the issues later in the trial.
I knew Rosenbaum was a scumbag but I missed that he had been released from a psych ward the same day he died. Why would this be inadmissible?
From legalinsurrection.com (https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/rittenhouse-trial-day-1-defense-dominates-opening-statements-first-witness-testimony/)
Probably because Kyle wouldn't have known that fact at the time he shot him, so it wouldn't have been a piece of info that would have helped Kyle in his decision to shoot or not.
BangBang77
11-03-21, 22:32
Probably because Kyle wouldn't have known that fact at the time he shot him, so it wouldn't have been a piece of info that would have helped Kyle in his decision to shoot or not.
No, but it would be a solid data point as to his mental status and stability.
No, but it would be a solid data point as to his mental status and stability.
Yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't be pertinent to establishing the cause of his attack on Kyle or his violent ways that night.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-04-21, 01:20
Wow, I wonder what kind of malpractice claim could be made against his care givers!!!
All this could be over a crazy MOFO? What the heck?
Run a tox screen on him and when he is on a cocktail of meds ask why.
I knew Rosenbaum was a scumbag but I missed that he had been released from a psych ward the same day he died. Why would this be inadmissible?
From legalinsurrection.com (https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/rittenhouse-trial-day-1-defense-dominates-opening-statements-first-witness-testimony/)
Dumbass prosecutor "opened the door". Normally it WOULD probably be inadmissible- not being relevant and prejudicial, and not something that Kyle would have used to make his decisions, but when the prosecutor talks about the poor Mr. Rosenbaum who had just that very day been released from the hospital- a clear attempt to humanize and garner sympathy for the piece of shit, well, then the REASON HE WAS IN THE HOSPITAL is up for discussion. It's no different than someone previous criminal record or gang affiliation. Unless the "defender" has specific knowledge of that information, it doesn't come in.
Yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't be pertinent to establishing the cause of his attack on Kyle or his violent ways that night.
It’s absolutely pertinent but they’ll do all they can to hide it.
More footage released...
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fbi-sat-bombshell-footage-kyle-rittenhouse-shooting
It’s absolutely pertinent but they’ll do all they can to hide it.
Because Self Defense is about the state of mind of the DEFENDER at the time of the altercation- what did he observe, what did he know at that time that caused him to feel sufficiently endangered to shoot another person. It doesn't matter if the guy he shot was the Grand Wizard of the KKK, Chapter President of the Local Hells Angels and a Satanic Priest all in one. Unless the Defender KNEW about that before pulling the trigger it doesn't matter! The fact that the guy is a piece of shit is irrelevant, what matters in self defense is what are the FACTS of the encounter and what can the defendant articulate as to why he pulled the trigger at that time. Just because someone is a bad person in general, that doesn't bolster your reason for getting to shoot them!
Now, you can argue that it SHOULD but it doesn't. For all we know our KKK, Hells Angel, Satanist had had an 11th Hour Conversion that very morning and was trying to live right as the rain on that particular day.
Because Self Defense is about the state of mind of the DEFENDER at the time of the altercation- what did he observe, what did he know at that time that caused him to feel sufficiently endangered to shoot another person. It doesn't matter if the guy he shot was the Grand Wizard of the KKK, Chapter President of the Local Hells Angels and a Satanic Priest all in one. Unless the Defender KNEW about that before pulling the trigger it doesn't matter! The fact that the guy is a piece of shit is irrelevant, what matters in self defense is what are the FACTS of the encounter and what can the defendant articulate as to why he pulled the trigger at that time. Just because someone is a bad person in general, that doesn't bolster your reason for getting to shoot them!
Now, you can argue that it SHOULD but it doesn't. For all we know our KKK, Hells Angel, Satanist had had an 11th Hour Conversion that very morning and was trying to live right as the rain on that particular day.
This is all true, but you can't take back what the prosecutor said after the fact. He screwed up and it's now relevant to the jury's mindset on what was happening at the time of the event. :)
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-04-21, 14:11
I wonder if one of the defense witnesses will just happen to mention that Rosenbaum was acting crazy. If they move to strike, just say what sane person tells armed people to “Shoot me, N-word-er!”?
The guy that shot a gun right before Kyle did had four charges, three were dropped, and $1000 bail…. And an extensive criminal record including weapons charges…
I wish Trump had the DOJ look at this for a civil rights violation or federal charges and clear him of that. You know Biden/Garland will try to take a second bite at the apple.
Because Self Defense is about the state of mind of the DEFENDER at the time of the altercation- what did he observe, what did he know at that time that caused him to feel sufficiently endangered to shoot another person. It doesn't matter if the guy he shot was the Grand Wizard of the KKK, Chapter President of the Local Hells Angels and a Satanic Priest all in one. Unless the Defender KNEW about that before pulling the trigger it doesn't matter!
Specifically for the justification of homicide I understand this. However another part is the issue of who was the aggressor; the prosecution is apparently trying to claim that Rittenhouse was chasing and provoking or assaulting Rosenbaum rather than the other way around. I think the defense should be able to juxtapose civic-minded Rittenhouse with criminal and mentally ill Rosenbaum. What is the basis for it being inadmissible in this context, rather than that of justification?
Averageman
11-04-21, 14:45
Probably because Kyle wouldn't have known that fact at the time he shot him, so it wouldn't have been a piece of info that would have helped Kyle in his decision to shoot or not.
No, but it certainly explains Rosenbaum's actions, a guy with his head on straight isn't in to charging a gun.
I wonder if he was suicidal, coming off his meds and perhaps had some street drugs, or all of the above?
This is all true, but you can't take back what the prosecutor said after the fact. He screwed up and it's now relevant to the jury's mindset on what was happening at the time of the event. :)
Exactly. Prosecutor messed up big time. There are always things in cases that both sides would like to keep out. Before trial, they will have a meeting with the judge who will make rulings on what comes in and what's out. Sometimes the judge will give you a "maybe" instead of a solid answer- he wants to see what the other evidence is and if it provides a reason for the introduction. BUT, if the dumbass trying to keep something out brings it up, well, it all comes in. In "real life" it doesn't happen very often, but some times it does and it's a delicious part of trying lawsuits when it does!
Gaige Grosskreutz got special treatment. Again from legalinsurrection.com (https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/11/rittenhouse-trial-day-2-did-prosecution-improperly-conspire-entire-trial/)]
In preparation for an in-person meeting with Gaige Grosskreutz, his lawyer, and representatives from the District Attorney’s office, the police investigators first obtained a search warrant. Again, their standard practice was to always gather up cell phones of people involved in an investigation and download the data, just as normal investigative practice. With the search warrant in hand, about which the Grosskreutz lawyer could have done nothing, they were prepared to do with the Grosskreutz phone what they’d done with every other person’s phone.
Despite having the search warrant in hand, however, and having Grosskreutz and his cell phone both present at the meeting, the investigators ended up not serving that search warrant on Grosskreutz, not seizing his phone, and not downloading the contents.
Not only was Grosskreutz the only person of interest to this investigation who did not have his phone downloaded, he was the only person in Detective Howard’s experience of any Kenosha PD investigation ever where a search warrant for a phone download had not been served.
Ever.
So, an exceptional breach of standard investigative procedure, indeed.
When Richards asked Detective Howard why this search warrant had not been served, the response was that concerns had been raised about Marcy’s Law. For those who don’t know, Marcy’s Law is often referred to as a “crime victim’s rights” law. It provides privileges to crime victims such as notification of criminal proceedings including any plea bargain, trial, sentencing, and parole of the criminal who victimized them. More relevant here, it also includes provisions to protect the privacy of crime victims.
Here, apparently, it was decided to, first, characterize Gaige Grosskreutz as a “crime victim,” and, second, to use that status and its privilege of privacy to excuse him from having his cell phone subject to search warrant and download.
And who was it, specifically, who had raised these Marcy’s Law concerns with respect to Grosskreutz and his phone, asked Richards of Detective Howard?
The answer: None other than Assistant District Attorney Timothy Binger, the lead prosecutor on this very Kyle Rittenhouse trial.
Richards then asked Detective Howards if he had ever before not served a valid search warrant because of Marcy’s Laws concerns? The answer: No.
And since that day, September 24, 2020, had Detective Howard on any occasion not served a valid search warrant because of Marcy’s Laws concerns? The answer, again: No.
One might begin to imagine that ADA Binger’s concerns about Marcy’s Law with respect to Grosskreutz and his phone were less a matter of legal principle and practice, and more a pretext for not discovering information he didn’t want to know himself, and that he didn’t want to be obliged to provide to the defense as Brady evidence (exculpatory evidence a prosecution must share with the defense).
That wasn’t the only exception to normal investigative practices when it came to Grosskreutz, however. Richards began to run down a long list of various witnesses who were interviewed for this case, every one of which had that interview video recorded. You interviewed Dominick Black? Yes. Recorded? Yes. You interviewed Richard McGinnis? Yes. Recorded? Yes. You interviewed this social media person on the scene and that social media on the scene? Yes. Recorded? Yes.
You interviewed Gaige Grosskreutz? Yes.
Recorded? No.
Have you ever seen someone who looks like this who WASN'T a junkie? The dyed blonde hair tells me this guy likes his heroin. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211104/c17942dcb8d651c4ae1996761415e13d.jpg
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Have you ever seen someone who looks like this who WASN'T a junkie? The dyed blonde hair tells me this guy likes his heroin. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211104/c17942dcb8d651c4ae1996761415e13d.jpg
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Dude, it's just bad lighting. Who knows, maybe he'll be Kyle's star witness.
eightmillimeter
11-04-21, 21:43
Full on cliche crazy prosecutor today. Had a witness on for hours, Iraq vet, “In your experience having shot 15000 rounds of rifle full metal jacket ammunition…” followed by a series of trick questions getting him to answer a handgun was the better or primary self defense weapon vs a rifle.
Diamondback
11-04-21, 22:20
Call me cynical, but this guy's making so many rookie mistakes one could start to wonder if he's deliberately throwing the game. Cynical friends suspect that that's the game; convict in Court of Public Opinion while losing at trial to say "these racist self-defense Licenses To Kill need doing away with" or some similar bullshit.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-04-21, 23:12
It doesn’t seem like either legal team is showering themselves in glory here. Kind of crazy when you think about it.
I was watching the composite video with the link. It seems that Kyle was being chased there was a single shot and then Kyle shot 3 to 4 shots, and then there were more shots after that? I’ve seen when he was running down the street towards the police, before he got attacked again, and they were more shots. I didn’t even realize how many shots were taken that evening.
Remember the massive Trump rallies versus virtually empty Biden teleprompter readings, but Biden "won" anyway? I don't think they really care about the trial proceedings as few are watching it at length anyway. I suspect the jurors were carefully chosen and are being prepared to render the verdict as directed. The defense could be in on it too; it would explain why Barnes' team was forbidden from being present or assisting in any way in the jury selection process.
Because Self Defense is about the state of mind of the DEFENDER at the time of the altercation- what did he observe, what did he know at that time that caused him to feel sufficiently endangered to shoot another person. It doesn't matter if the guy he shot was the Grand Wizard of the KKK, Chapter President of the Local Hells Angels and a Satanic Priest all in one. Unless the Defender KNEW about that before pulling the trigger it doesn't matter! The fact that the guy is a piece of shit is irrelevant, what matters in self defense is what are the FACTS of the encounter and what can the defendant articulate as to why he pulled the trigger at that time. Just because someone is a bad person in general, that doesn't bolster your reason for getting to shoot them!
Now, you can argue that it SHOULD but it doesn't. For all we know our KKK, Hells Angel, Satanist had had an 11th Hour Conversion that very morning and was trying to live right as the rain on that particular day.
Nope. He’s a twice convicted child rapist, just let out of the looney bin THAT VERY DAY and he had suicidal tendencies.
He’s recorded screaming, “Shoot me, nigga! Shoot me, nigga!”
He is also accused of saying, “if I run into any of you MFs I’m gonna kill you!” to Kyle and another chubby dude.
He’s later seen attacking Kyle and throwing some object at him as he closed the distance to Kyle who wheels around and several witnesses says he reached for the carbine and Kyle smoked him.
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I wonder if one of the defense witnesses will just happen to mention that Rosenbaum was acting crazy. If they move to strike, just say what sane person tells armed people to “Shoot me, N-word-er!”?
The guy that shot a gun right before Kyle did had four charges, three were dropped, and $1000 bail…. And an extensive criminal record including weapons charges…
I wish Trump had the DOJ look at this for a civil rights violation or federal charges and clear him of that. You know Biden/Garland will try to take a second bite at the apple.
Bingo!
Kyle has been unlawfully railroaded.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
11-05-21, 00:10
If he can shoot 3 white guys, clearly trying to defend himself, with multiple camera angles- and they can convict him..... What chance do you have if you shoot a privilged class person in a dark alley with not witnesses and just your word? SCOTUS will give us the right to carry, and this case will take away our ability to use it.
Not sure if posted, but the FBI "lost" the high def vid:
https://www.lawofficer.com/rittenhouse-video-fbi/
Not sure if posted, but the FBI "lost" the high def vid:
https://www.lawofficer.com/rittenhouse-video-fbi/
Wait. The "World's Preeminent Law Enforcement Agency™" lost original evidence crucial to a major criminal case with national civil rights implications? Surely you jest? :rolleyes:
Wait. The "World's Preeminent Law Enforcement Agency[emoji769]" lost original evidence crucial to a major criminal case with national civil rights implications? Surely you jest? :rolleyes:Probably made great kindling for a class on illegal classified server farm destruction.
I propose to restructure their name as the FIB,
Federal Institute of Bumbling.
But seriously people are upset with their school boards so understandably the agents are way too busy with that to focus on mundane things like evidence or child abusing Olympic doctors.
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Not sure if posted, but the FBI "lost" the high def vid:
https://www.lawofficer.com/rittenhouse-video-fbi/
Sounds like they had UC or informants in the HD video they don't want ID'd
Diamondback
11-05-21, 20:45
Sounds like they had UC or informants in the HD video they don't want ID'd
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the f*ckstains Kyle greased was an FBLie agitator...
Testimony of Rosenbaum...
https://mobile.twitter.com/HereToWatchThe1/status/1456753710906937346
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the f*ckstains Kyle greased was an FBLie agitator...
THAT is an excellent question that the FBI should be asked under Oath.
Testimony of Rosenbaum...
https://mobile.twitter.com/HereToWatchThe1/status/1456753710906937346
well that's not going to help the prosecutors case....
Anyone else getting the impression the prosecutor is intentionally scuttling his own case?
I'd like to think so, but I think he's just an idiot blinded by his own incompetence. Trying to paint this kid as a murderous active shooter is the scummiest thing I can think of, this guy has no soul.
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eightmillimeter
11-05-21, 23:40
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the f*ckstains Kyle greased was an FBLie agitator...
Well, I hadn’t thought of that…. Explains the guy who didn’t get his phone dumped
I'd like to think so, but I think he's just an idiot blinded by his own incompetence. Trying to paint this kid as a murderous active shooter is the scummiest thing I can think of, this guy has no soul.
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He got told to prosecute so here we are… when you have nothing you throw it all at the wall
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-06-21, 02:47
I think he is putting up what he has (the prosecutor). I think he has pinned his hopes on the fact that Kyle had no business playing soldier in a situation like that(in many people's minds). He Is probably also hoping that the juror's will fear Antifa retribution or at least new riots. He is doing a pretty good job from a strictly mechanical perspective (during the parts I have watched). He could sneer and condescend a little less but that is fairly common among prosecutors.
So far it sure looks good for Kyle. Very few surprises. I actually sent his team a little cash. Hopefully he walks.
Not sure if posted, but the FBI "lost" the high def vid:
https://www.lawofficer.com/rittenhouse-video-fbi/
Wonder if they were there in a similar capacity to the draw mohammed event?
This is an excellent example of why the eternal claim of "the powers that be don't have the resources to enforce ABC 123 because they don't have resources to deal with actual crime" is complete BS.
I am not a lawyer, even in my wildest dreams, but it seems the FBI concealing then losing the high definition video of the pedo's final encounter with Kyle would make a guilty verdict highly suspect.
Andy
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-06-21, 14:53
It seems to me that the MSM isn’t covering the case, beyond a cursory description of an underaged white boy crossing state lines with a machine gun to shoot three demonstrators that were protesting a white cop shooting an unarmed black man in the back seven times….
Don’t upset that narrative with facts of what really happened, so that when even a heavily anti jury delivers a non guilty verdict, the MSM, FEDS and ANTIFA can go fully active against white militias particular and guns in general.
Plus, the Aubrey case and the Texas SCOTUS hearings are taking the oxygen out of the room…
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-07-21, 15:52
I have a very pro gun rightwing friend and his impression from only following the case in the MSM was that Kyle was getting trounced. He was surprised at what I told him from my watching the actual trial. If he is found not guilty a lot of people are going to be shocked. On the other hand, the prosecution's main witness hasn't taken the stand and we will have to see if Kyle's dumb ass testifies.
Diamondback
11-07-21, 15:58
That's what they're banking on, using the MSM to squelch the truth and present a "walked on a technicality but we all know what he and all those like him really are, BURN IT ALL!" narrative...
This case will be either an upholding of commonsense Self Defense rights, or the deathknell of them, with no gray in between. It's not about one kid in the wrong place at the wrong time, who found himself an unwitting pawn in a much larger game played for unimaginably high stakes...
Like stated earlier, I do think the intimidation of the jury pool is gonna keep on getting ramped up...especially if the trial looks to role Kyle's direction. Paid crisis actors availability has been idle lately.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/watch-george-floyds-nephew-makes-video-threatening-jurors-not-convict-kyle-rittenhouse/
George Floyd's nephew needs to take a knee and relax. Also, this kid shot a white guy screaming the n-word at a BLM party... What exactly is their outrage over?
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FromMyColdDeadHand
11-07-21, 20:47
At this rate, the judge is going to throw out the case after the prosecution rests.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-07-21, 22:39
I noticed it got assigned to the oldest Judge. He was telling stories about trying cases in the mid-70s. It is good that a Judge who likely doesn't have future professional plans is on the case.
I noticed it got assigned to the oldest Judge. He was telling stories about trying cases in the mid-70s. It is good that a Judge who likely doesn't have future professional plans is on the case.
And does not seem to give a damn about modern gen norms of wokeness and the like.
I have a very pro gun rightwing friend and his impression from only following the case in the MSM was that Kyle was getting trounced. He was surprised at what I told him from my watching the actual trial. If he is found not guilty a lot of people are going to be shocked. On the other hand, the prosecution's main witness hasn't taken the stand and we will have to see if Kyle's dumb ass testifies.
Kyle's testimony has been preserved in perpetuity (just not in HD). If his attorney has an ounce of awareness, he'll show the videos over and over again, while narrating the flawless self-defense justifications. He'll point out the extremely flawed investigation and "missing" evidence that conveniently favors the prosecution. Then he'll point out Kyle's youthful, angelic face and connect him to the sons and daughters of the jurors. But for the Grace of God go your own children, while Kenosha ignores their safety and security.
Kyle already has grounds for a mistrial, but I wouldn't exercise that option too early. He may well get an outright win if they play their cards right.
Averageman
11-08-21, 12:02
Kyle's testimony has been preserved in perpetuity (just not in HD). If his attorney has an ounce of awareness, he'll show the videos over and over again, while narrating the flawless self-defense justifications. He'll point out the extremely flawed investigation and "missing" evidence that conveniently favors the prosecution. Then he'll point out Kyle's youthful, angelic face and connect him to the sons and daughters of the jurors. But for the Grace of God go your own children, while Kenosha ignores their safety and security.
Kyle already has grounds for a mistrial, but I wouldn't exercise that option too early. He may well get an outright win if they play their cards right.
Well as soon as the Prosecution opened their mouths, they were closer than ever to winning.
Playing his cards close to his vest and making every attempt not to shoot yourself in your own foot is the way to win and I would say they are doing well so far.
Groskreutz a shit show too.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-08-21, 13:03
The state has lost all the serious charges. If there wasn’t national attention this would be a directed verdict. Complete destruction of Groskreutz.
Diamondback
11-08-21, 13:10
Right now, if I'm the Defense I'm strongly debating which is better, motion for Summary Judgment/Dismissal or complete Defense Phase, expose as much of the rot and Prosecutorial Misconduct as possible and try to burn Binger and his bosses.
If I'm Judge Schroeder, either a Directed Verdiuct or Dismissal With Prejudice are starting to sound like mighty fine ideas especially with the prosecutor never missing a chance to try to piss in his face and tell him it's raining.
Heck of a moment!
Actually the whole cross was amazing.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1457774701673996298
Its almost as if the commies want Kyle free for better access to him. But that's another thread I guess.
Diamondback
11-08-21, 13:22
Its almost as if the commies want Kyle free for better access to him. But that's another thread I guess.
Not just free, but in the open and disarmed. He's never getting his rifle back and ATF is probably gonna move on him and his buddy for "Straw Purchase."
Trial resuming now 2:22 EST
Trial resuming now 2:22 EST
Where?
SomeOtherGuy
11-08-21, 13:41
Heck of a moment!
Actually the whole cross was amazing.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1457774701673996298
Same moment, but with more commentary:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/rittenhouse-witness-blows-case-prosecution-admits-he-pointed-gun-advanced-first
tl;dr the surviving guy who Kyle shot admitted that Kyle only shot him after he pointed his pistol at Kyle.
Dude, it's just bad lighting. Who knows, maybe he'll be Kyle's star witness.
Yep, turns into the star witness for the defense.
WillieThom
11-08-21, 14:08
When this kid goes free, he is going to need friends. He is going to need protection and security. And he is going to need financial help.
This is the time, right now, for conservatives and 2A proponents all over the country to come together and do any and every thing in their power to help him. Not some half-assed shit… but real and substantial support from private citizens, churches, politicians, firearm manufacturers, other businesses that support 2A, etc.
If ever there was a flag for us to organize under…. This one is close to top of the list. Especially with regard to our God-given right to self-defense.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-08-21, 14:20
Did the prosecution lawyer just ask if the police officer interacted with a dead guy? The officer was like WTF...
Where?
https://youtu.be/TX1SnM-3GQ0
Well said. This is true. I have donated twice and if all of us donate a small amount it will go a long way to help a young man who has been targeted by our media and a sub population of people hell bent on destroying the foundation of law, order, and democracy.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-08-21, 17:55
Head over to CNN to understand why when Kyle either gets his case thrown out or is found not guilty people are going to not believe it. CNN is really twisting the fax to write their headlines the way they want people to perceive the story.
john armond
11-08-21, 18:12
Head over to CNN to understand why when Kyle either gets his case thrown out or is found not guilty people are going to not believe it. CNN is really twisting the fax to write their headlines the way they want people to perceive the story.
Wow! CNN literally has up that the guy shot in the arm had his hands up in the air when he was shot. In his own testimony he stated he wasn’t shot until after pointing his pistol at Rittenhouse. How they get away with the continuing lies from a supposed news source is just unbelievable.
If/when he is acquitted I think the burnt cities last year will be nothing in comparison to what we will see. After all this 17 year old shot a bunch of white people simply because they were standing up for/with the downtrodden…or some other BS like that is certainly going to be pushed. Of course, they will simply forget the verbal racist rantings of the tiny chomo before he started chasing Rittenhouse.
ETA…Just refreshed CNN and they now have an update stating the pistol was aimed at Rittenhouse. I still think there is going to be a major backlash after the trial.
Black_Sheep
11-08-21, 18:49
Wow! The Gaige Grosskreutz testimony isn't helping the prosecution one bit. I've watched up to the recess so far, thanks for posting the link Ron3...
Averageman
11-08-21, 19:43
Wow! The Gaige Grosskreutz testimony isn't helping the prosecution one bit. I've watched up to the recess so far, thanks for posting the link Ron3...
Pretty much at this point all the Defence has had to do is give as much time as possible and totally unhindered to the Prosecution.
I have no idea what the Prosecution is up to, but to be honest, I believe this Judge might take everyone aside and say, "Bullshit, this is nuts".
They have proven everything necassary for Rittenhouse to walk.
Pretty much at this point all the Defence has had to do is give as much time as possible and totally unhindered to the Prosecution.
I have no idea what the Prosecution is up to, but to be honest, I believe this Judge might take everyone aside and say, "Bullshit, this is nuts".
They have proven everything necassary for Rittenhouse to walk.
It’s been a while since we had a good old fashioned directed verdict. I think it’s well deserved in this case.
I have no idea what the Prosecution is up to, but to be honest, I believe this Judge might take everyone aside and say, "Bullshit, this is nuts".
I thought that might have been what was happening after today's session when the sound was off and the judge called the prosecution to the bench.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-08-21, 22:50
Interesting explanation of how we got here if true....https://thepostmillennial.com/kenosha-mayor-has-close-family-ties-to-lead-detective-prosecuting-da-in-rittenhouse-case
Diamondback
11-08-21, 22:51
So the mayor would rather let his city burn... who wants to play Name That Party?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-08-21, 23:05
A good friend forwarded me an email that was looking at the theory that the prosecution is going to say that by Kyle showing up there with the rifle he provoked the attack. That would negate all of his claims of self-defense. That’s the shorthand version of a half an hour article. It seems to be the last refuge before just pounding on the table. But unfortunately I think all it will take for people to convict Is any theory that lays guilt on him. It does seem that lots of liberals think that just because he cross state lines, and had an AR he’s guilty. That’s why that misdemeanor charge is all about. If he is there illegally with a rifle, they’ll say that he forfeits the right to self defense.
Obviously, that is all BS, Hail Mary stuff. But when the facts don’t work, and the law is pretty clear- just twist the law.
I think that is why the statement about Kyle pointing the gun at Crazy dude hiding between the cars is so important to the prosecution- and why they are enhancing the video- and also why the FBI overheard imagery is so blurry. The evidence has to show that Kyle threatened Rosenbaum- and why the prosecution allowed the “Shoot me N-word” after he is reported to have said that “don’t point that gun at me”. So if Kyle pointed his gun at Rosenbaum, he was baiting Rosenbaum- who was crazy- into attacking him, thus losing his right to self defense.
If the judge believes in justice, he’d do a directed verdict. Allowing this pile of crap to go to the jury is legal malpractice and a severe infringement on Kyle’s rights.
titsonritz
11-09-21, 03:01
So the mayor would rather let his city burn... who wants to play Name That Party?
F' that. Meet Mr. Belt Fed. Burn those cunts to the ground, they will not dictact justice to fit their BS. The fact that "mostly peaceful protests" raged all last year blows me away. Kyle should not have put down more muther ****ers than than the national guard.
This whole thing is a left leaning political dumpster fire...I really hope he has grounds to civilly sue all the bad actors
If it is true that there was a search warrant for G's phone and his phone was not examined, defense probably should have shown the search warrant and asked the detective what was on the phone. The defense is white knighting the police. Also would have pointed out that the rifle was swabbed for DNA after at least a day had passed without the rifle being in police custody.
Hell, the rest of Kyle's life is at stake, ask the detective if he is related to the mayor. So the judge sustains the objection and instructs the jury to forget - plant that seed.
Andy
Difficult to tell the difference between the prosecution and the defense at this point as they both seem to be working for the defense. I'm surprised how empty that court room is, and where's his parents?
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-21, 08:00
Not many people, or masks in court…
No parents, because why show up and parent now? Actually, their presence would only highlight how young he is; take it like a man.
Apparently George Floyd's uncle insinuated BLM had people in the courtroom to identify and doxx jurors...he needs to take a knee and relax.
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I'm watching the prosecution interview the "medic" and asking lengthy Qs on how and why he was interested in the medical field, etc, etc and he goes into his childhood story, yada yada. I'd think the defense would ask "how is any of that relevant here?" as it has no bearing to the case, but does not. Said medic is of course claiming his intent for being there was to help people with medical issues and no other motives.
Medic is a ANTIFA supporter and we all know that. I wonder if the defense has pulled up any social media postings and such from fictional medic as to his affiliations and or support for the groups at that riot to expose him for what he is.
Averageman
11-09-21, 08:34
Apparently George Floyd's uncle insinuated BLM had people in the courtroom to identify and doxx jurors...he needs to take a knee and relax.
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I'm not sure that if your throwing that kind of shade why the Judge wouldn't have you sequestered?
Anybody remember the movie “walking tall” with the Rock (somewhat based on true events), I feel this trial is “similar” to the court room scenes in that movie…the good guy is the defendant while the criminals appear to be the victims….
I'm watching the prosecution interview the "medic" and asking lengthy Qs on how and why he was interested in the medical field, etc, etc and he goes into his childhood story, yada yada. I'd think the defense would ask "how is any of that relevant here?" as it has no bearing to the case, but does not. Said medic is of course claiming his intent for being there was to help people with medical issues and no other motives.
Medic is a ANTIFA supporter and we all know that. I wonder if the defense has pulled up any social media postings and such from fictional medic as to his affiliations and or support for the groups at that riot to expose him for what he is.
All good points, which should allow defense to bring possible nefarious intent on Grosskreutz's part.
All good points, which should allow defense to bring possible nefarious intent on Grosskreutz's part.
Another aspect I hope the defense points out: the licensed medic went there with a gun and a camera and no medical supplies (correct me if wrong on that but that's what I gathered from his testimony), while the non licensed medic (Kyle) who claimed to be there to assist people on vid repeatedly, had medical supplies as well as a means of defending himself. That's what you call irony...
Another aspect I hope the defense points out: the licensed medic went there with a gun and a camera and no medical supplies (correct me if wrong on that but that's what I gathered from his testimony), while the non licensed medic (Kyle) who claimed to be there to assist people on vid repeatedly, had medical supplies as well as a means of defending himself. That's what you call irony...
I don't know if I can find it, but I read somewhere back when the event happened that Grosskreutz's certs were lapsed/expired.
Even if Kyle is found not guilty, the new system and the prosecution has won.
In the future fewer people will be willing to risk going through what Kyle is being put through.
The LA riots, when the Koreans were on the roof tops defending their businesses, took place in a far different time.
Almost a different country...
I don't know if I can find it, but I read somewhere back when the event happened that Grosskreutz's certs were lapsed/expired.
That's my understanding two, but of that would not prevent him from bringing medical supplies if his actual intent for being there, like Kyle, was to render aid to the injured. Hopefully the defense also points out the "medic" has not worked as such in a while due to expired certs due to (as I understand it) his ongoing drug (and legal?) issues.
Even if Kyle is found not guilty, the new system and the prosecution has won.
In the future fewer people will be willing to risk going through what Kyle is being put through.
The LA riots, when the Koreans were on the roof tops defending their businesses, took place in a far different time.
Almost a different country...
As I said before in this thread, that is the entire reason for the fiasco. Win or lose, the purpose is to send a message that your life will be ruined whether legally justified or not, using tax payers $ to do so. I suspect they know they don't really have a case, but the intention is to make it clear, that will not stand in the way of ruining your life. Sending such a message to the public happens all the time. He was also in the middle of larger political forces fighting it out, and a metaphor for that.
My personal expectation is he will be found guilty on some of the minor charges, times served, probation, etc, etc, and quickly pushed aside by the media as it's not the narrative they want and all manner of new events for faux outrage to focus on now.
That's like so last month for the 20 min news cycle now and they can focus on the more legit racial tension case getting started.
I would think that the lesson we should learn from Kyle's trial is not to be identified in the first place so we can be prosecuted.
I would think that the lesson we should learn from Kyle's trial is not to be identified in the first place so we can be prosecuted.
"Yellow Pants Man" and "Jump Kick Guy", certainly do show that you can do a lot without getting identified...
Even if Kyle is found not guilty, the new system and the prosecution has won.
In the future fewer people will be willing to risk going through what Kyle is being put through.
The LA riots, when the Koreans were on the roof tops defending their businesses, took place in a far different time.
Almost a different country...
As James O'Keefe pointed out regarding his current FBI woes, the process IS the punishment. That's why society needs to work hard to fully restore him when this is all over.
"Yellow Pants Man" and "Jump Kick Guy", certainly do show that you can do a lot without getting identified...
Yeah, but not everyone can be on the FBI teat. :(
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-09-21, 11:40
If this wasn’t such a political spectacle kyle would probably have been convicted because he wouldn’t have had such a good defense team . Most defendants just get crushed by the state. Typically the defendant would have a public defender or a single defense attorney with 200 other cases and no money for experts or investigators. The state gets investigators, cops, state salaried experts and typically has a motivated victim or a witness motivated by a plea deal. Plus the judges (like the judge here) are almost all ex prosecutors).
Rifleman_04
11-09-21, 12:35
As James O'Keefe pointed out regarding his current FBI woes, the process IS the punishment. That's why society needs to work hard to fully restore him when this is all over.
That’s why as a collective our side must not allow the process to commence.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-21, 12:49
And now here is some video that shows nothing. And here it is zoomed in, and here it is slower...
How much more of this debacle is the prosecution putting on? Hours? Days? I'm waiting for their bombshell that proves their case and I don't see it? :confused:
I'm waiting for their bombshell that proves their case and I don't see it? :confused:
I think that the Prosecution is as well.
I think that the Prosecution is as well.
To answer my own question, seems the prosecution ran out of gas before they got there. :D
Prosecution rests its case against Kyle Rittenhouse after 22 witnesses over six days
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/09/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-tuesday/index.html
Never underestimate the ability of the Jury to be intimidated, disregard the facts and wrongfully convict Kyle.
The OJ trial proved to all of us that jury's don't much care for facts any longer.
If this wasn’t such a political spectacle kyle would probably have been convicted because he wouldn’t have had such a good defense team . Most defendants just get crushed by the state. Typically the defendant would have a public defender or a single defense attorney with 200 other cases and no money for experts or investigators. The state gets investigators, cops, state salaried experts and typically has a motivated victim or a witness motivated by a plea deal. Plus the judges (like the judge here) are almost all ex prosecutors).
Which would seem to be a good advertisement for being insured if you "go armed".
To answer my own question, seems the prosecution ran out of gas before they got there. :D
Prosecution rests its case against Kyle Rittenhouse after 22 witnesses over six days
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/09/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-tuesday/index.html
Amazing, while I didn't see all of it, what I watched of the prosecution didn't seem to support anything resembling support for murder, and could have been used by his defense! The older blond women (didn't get her name) made the prosecutor seem poorly informed about various fact patterns of that night and just how bad it was.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-21, 14:51
Which would seem to be a good advertisement for being insured if you "go armed".
And that will be used against you...
Watching a live stream on delay due to work. Just saw the coroner say that the hand wound was from when the hand was close to the gun.... I think the state was looking for the coroner to say that the hand was up and surrendering. Nope.
Is the DA trying out for Defense jobs?
Did the DA rest, or just commit harry carry???
And that will be used against you...
Watching a live stream on delay due to work. Just saw the coroner say that the hand wound was from when the hand was close to the gun.... I think the state was looking for the coroner to say that the hand was up and surrendering. Nope.
Is the DA trying out for Defense jobs?
Did the DA rest, or just commit harry carry???
Possibly, but at least you would have some money to defend yourself! The alternative ain't great....
Evidence that the jury was concerned about their identity as jurors due to safety concerns, that there were plans to prevent it, that people DID try to record/identify them and were supposedly thwarted.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-judge-jury-video-delete
That's a mistrial in a box should the jury get it wrong. At the least an appeal and change of venue should a retrial become necessary.
Prosecutorial misconduct.
Witness for the defense nails prosecutor for misconduct. Specifically goading a witness (formerly for the prosecutor, now for the defense) to falsify testimony.
https://i.imgflip.com/5tl9pz.jpg
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-09-21, 20:03
Hell, he didn’t lead them at all.
We always laugh at the TV shows and movies where they don’t have sights on the upper rails, jokes on us.
I still think the prosecution is going to make the argument that he didn’t belong there, the A.R. 15 is dangerous, and since no one else was shot that night Kyle must be guilty of something.
People of made a lot out of this judge wanting to take this to jury to show that the people of Kenosha can handle inflammatory cases like this. They’re kind of reminds me of Roberts trying to use Scotus To prove the courts aren’t political, by making them political. It is a misjustice to let this go to a jury.
I think that’s why the main stream press has not been covering it. And when they do they misconstrue and don’t relay what is actually happening in the court room. I think that forces the judges hand not to give a directed verdict because he’ll be seen as being unfair.
I think that is what was behind the judge having the photographers come up and take a picture of how close the rifle was to Rosenbaum when he was shot. That will end up being a Seminole photo, if the price would actually cover it.
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-09-21, 23:44
Kyle's splits were .19 on average. Not too shabby
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 02:03
MSNBC isn’t covering the case at all as far as I can tell. Had the Brian Williams show on in the background, and that dude version of Rachel Maddox. All about 1/6- privilege case, Brannon contempt, and new subpoenas.
Watching live now, it's getting interesting. Friend of "medic" who posted on twitter how said ANTIFA soy boy had said he regretted not killing Kyle, said he made that up. The defense put him in a corner to say he simply lied "to defend his friend." So, it's now being claimed he never said it, his buddy made it up, and I doubt anyone on the jury believed it. He also claimed they were getting threats and such from Kyle supporters and such.
The cross examinations are actually pretty interesting now.
WillieThom
11-10-21, 09:38
The defense just called Kyle Rittenhouse…. Oh, LAWD!!
The defense just called Kyle Rittenhouse…. Oh, LAWD!!
What a terrible idea.
What a terrible idea.
I couldn't agree more. It's a completely unnecessary risk at this point.
The defense just called Kyle Rittenhouse…. Oh, LAWD!!
Kid sounds very well composed I must say, but hopefully that does not fall apart on cross examination. It does not seem necessary at all from what I have seen so far as there has been no case presented for the major charges against him, and all the defense needed to do was not make any major F ups. Hopefully putting the kid on the stand is not one of those...
Well shit, my gut said let the prosecution hang themselves. Hope is composure on the stand is as solid as his shooting.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 10:15
I don't get why he is taking the stand? Just to slam dunk this? At the start of the trial, it seemed that the defense was trying to lose, then they were dragged to victory by the evidence and the prosecution's own witness testimony- and now they seem to be trying to lose again.
Looking into it, but I did hear Wisconsin law requires defendant testimony for a directed verdict. If that's true, I'd guess that's what the defense is angling for.
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"Snapping defeat from the jaws of victory" it seems.
I hope he holds up under this stupid tactic.
WillieThom
11-10-21, 10:28
Staged or no? I don’t know what to think, but I sincerely had to look away.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 10:43
I'm on delay, but I don't get this at all.
In regards to what it means for us, I think that he is setting the stage that people will expect people to take the stand if they shoot someone. Really bad setting up expectations for the future.
I'm watching on delay the live stream at the youtube channel Rekieta Law.
Looking into it, but I did hear Wisconsin law requires defendant testimony for a directed verdict. If that's true, I'd guess that's what the defense is angling for.
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That's the only reason that would make sense. I will say he's doing a stellar job so far. If he pulls this off and the prosecutor doesn't harm him, he'll be a hero forever.
Oh My God! He had played video games guys. Definitely murder.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 11:18
It is a total race between the lawyers as to who can screw it up the most.
Viva Frei -"binger has been a better lawyer for defense than the defense"
Also "Kyle knows the gun laws better than the prosecutor"
I would think that the lesson we should learn from Kyle's trial is not to be identified in the first place so we can be prosecuted.
Something antifa has known for years
Bitch slap #2 to the prosecutor on its way.
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ADA fixing to get schooled by the judge again! LOL
The slaps keep coming…[emoji2957][emoji1787][emoji3166]
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What do hollow points have to do with anything?
ADA is going down a dead end rabbit hole on the bullet construction, when Kyle used FMJ that's used all over the world for defense and military use. I THINK he's trying to say that using 5.56 FMJ was negligent? He's a real idiot. :rolleyes:
ADA is going down a dead end rabbit hole on the bullet construction, when Kyle used FMJ that's used all over the world for defense and military use. I THINK he's trying to say that using 5.56 FMJ was negligent? He's a real idiot. :rolleyes:
I think you're right. Right before they broke for lunch the prosecutor said that FMJ is made to go through multiple people.
I think you're right. Right before they broke for lunch the prosecutor said that FMJ is made to go through multiple people.
And the second he suggested it, the judge shut him down yet again. He's PISSED at Binger. Also, at this point after his second argument with Binger, I won't e shocked if the judge throws out the unlawful possession misdemeanor charge too. Personally I hope he doesn't, because part of the jury may need that charge to justify in their minds, finding Kyle not guilty on all the other charges. THEN the judge can issue a directed verdict on the misdemeanor, because the prosecution didn't prove the crime.
I hope you all watch Kyle's actual testimony when he gets to the actual shootings, it's compelling and convincing. Everything about his testimony makes those he shot sound like total aggressors and downright psychotic loons. I suspect that will be highly convincing to a jury.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 12:41
I think the DA is trying to get a mistrial and get another bite at the apply. You gotta go for a directed verdict. Between the DOXing threat of the jury, to the DA violating the 5th amendment rights, to the actual facts, and the law- how can you let this go to a jury and risk a guilty verdict.
The DA has the judge arguing the defense case for them.
I hope you all watch Kyle's actual testimony when he gets to the actual shootings, it's compelling and convincing. Everything about his testimony makes those he shot sound like total aggressors and downright psychotic loons. I suspect that will be highly convincing to a jury.
Pretty much exactly what happened, as far as I can tell.
The more I have watched the more I have changed my mind on all of this.
Rittenhouse was a complete idiot for being there. He was/is a kid and lacked good judgement. But that isn't a crime. Shoots were good and the evidence is just showing that more and more clearly.
The more I have watched the more I have changed my mind on all of this.
Rittenhouse was a complete idiot for being there. He was/is a kid and lacked good judgement. But that isn't a crime. Shoots were good and the evidence is just showing that more and more clearly.He put himself in a jackpot....but when the city and PD lacked the balls to stop a bunch of thugs from running wild, it took a 17 year old kid to try and come and help out. And he shot better than most "trained people", everyone he shot deserved shooting, and he removed 2 1/2 serious assholes from the population. So good for him, and I hope he comes out of this ok.
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Gabriel556
11-10-21, 13:43
I thought his statement about the actual shooting was well done. About how he shot to stop the person attacking him, instead of falling for the prosecutor saying he was shooting to kill.
The more I have watched the more I have changed my mind on all of this.
Rittenhouse was a complete idiot for being there. He was/is a kid and lacked good judgement. But that isn't a crime. Shoots were good and the evidence is just showing that more and more clearly.
Kyle is obviously less of an idiot and has better judgement than the prosecutor in this case.
Young men have been looking for adventure for ages, I'm just sorry Kyle got caught up with a slew of bad people, from the guys he had to shoot to these yahoo prosecutors.
titsonritz
11-10-21, 14:39
I hope you all watch Kyle's actual testimony when he gets to the actual shootings, it's compelling and convincing. Everything about his testimony makes those he shot sound like total aggressors and downright psychotic loons. I suspect that will be highly convincing to a jury.
Kyle takes the stand at 29:50, testimony starts at 37:20...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhzFAIpyI1Q
Not only is Kyle killing it, he's making this prosecutor look like a complete buffoon. Waiting for the judge to call a TKO.
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FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 14:59
I don't know who is more incompetent. THe defense or the prosecutor.. The defense needs to defend Kyle with an objection every once in a while, to break the pattern and give him a break.
I think both sets of lawyers should be disbarred. Kyle has no representation while he is on stand. THe judge hates the prosecutor, so he'll defer if you get any kind of argument.
Can you call yourself defense counsel if you don't actually defend your guy? Did Kyle run out quarters to feed his lawyers to say the word "Objection".
I don't know who is more incompetent. THe defense or the prosecutor.. The defense needs to defend Kyle with an objection every once in a while, to break the pattern and give him a break.
Should have been an objection on the prosecutor‘a delusion about fmj and have witness talk about the lack of ammo choice at that time.
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Should have been an objection on the prosecutor‘a delusion about fmj and have witness talk about the lack of ammo choice at that time.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSubpoena DOCGKR [emoji16]
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Gabriel556
11-10-21, 15:08
How does the court system handle prosecutorial misconduct? Is it up to the judge to address that or what? I do think the prosecutor should be in trouble. If he’s messing up this bad on a televised trial, what’s he doing on to people on a regular basis?
Binger is seriously damaging my calm. Kyle doesn’t understand the questions because Binger isn’t making any sense!
Diamondback
11-10-21, 15:13
How does the court system handle prosecutorial misconduct? Is it up to the judge to address that or what? I do think the prosecutor should be in trouble. If he’s messing up this bad on a televised trial, what’s he doing on to people on a regular basis?
Judge, Defense Counsel or any other attorney admitted to that state's Bar can bring a Bar Ethics action against the prosecutor. If I were Judge Schroeder right now I'd be sorely tempted to do exactly that... if not already drawing up paperwork and getting ready to file upon close of trial.
Not only is Kyle killing it, he's making this prosecutor look like a complete buffoon. Waiting for the judge to call a TKO.
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I'm stunned by how well composed and adult that kid sounds up there. While I don't think he needed to be up there based on the evidence presented, his composure suggests will help vs hurt him all around. His story about how hard it was made to turn himself into the police is a cluster. Yikes.
While the prosecutor did his best to trip the kid up, I really thought the defense should have objected on leading the witness and simply trying to put words in his mouth that his intent was to kill those he shot vs trying to prevent them from attacking him over and over and over...
I thought the judge kept the prosecutor in line pretty well too.
I cannot believe the defense let the ammo questioning continue unchallenged.
Andy
Kyle is destroying Binger right now. I guarantee everyone on that jury is looking at Binger with contempt.
Strangely, PBS's youtube for todays trial is not available.
Andy
Strangely, PBS's youtube for todays trial is not available.
Andy
They've seen all they want to, and they don't want their core audience to either. They'll go back to editorializing.
They've seen all they want to, and they don't want their core audience to either. They'll go back to editorializing.
It really appears that way.
Not one public dime for PBS, please.
Andy
WillieThom
11-10-21, 16:32
Strangely, PBS's youtube for todays trial is not available.
Andy
Not taking up for or defending anyone, but I’ve had PBS Newshour playing on YouTube in the background all day. Maybe you are speaking of a different channel all together… but if not, I have had no problems on my end.
Not taking up for or defending anyone, but I’ve had PBS Newshour playing on YouTube in the background all day. Maybe you are speaking of a different channel all together… but if not, I have had no problems on my end.I was watching the PBS stream link on Legal Insurrection, at some point in the afternoon the video was labeled private and stopped streaming, but was viewable elsewhere.
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Geraldo Rivera just said that Kyle was “impenetrable by this lame prosecutor”! 😆
Could the prosecutor be begging to get punched in the face any worse? What a weenie POS.
He’s Littlefinger in a suit [emoji23]
Could the prosecutor be begging to get punched in the face any worse? What a weenie POS.
He’s Littlefinger in a suit [emoji23]You're not the only one fantasizing about that [emoji23]. Even better, I'd like to email him and thank him for tossing the case...unless it's intentional so they can try for another bite at the apple
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Could the prosecutor be begging to get punched in the face any worse? What a weenie POS.
Kicked. If "all he uses is one foot" how could Binger protest?
https://youtu.be/mNnfHUtwFBg?t=8170
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 17:41
Judge, Defense Counsel or any other attorney admitted to that state's Bar can bring a Bar Ethics action against the prosecutor. If I were Judge Schroeder right now I'd be sorely tempted to do exactly that... if not already drawing up paperwork and getting ready to file upon close of trial.
Why didn't the defense re-cross or what ever with Kyle. Binger drew everything out, probably to cut and splice it for closing. I think the defense needed to point out that Kyle only shot those attacking him- when they came into contact with them.
Plus, who cares if Kyle "Lied" to people on the street or about being an EMT?? Just say that I said I was an EMT because explaining the FD training program is too long.
It was a mistake putting him on the stand. Too risky and is their legal argument any stronger now? Judge won't throw it out and any juror that wants to get Kyle isn't going to be swayed.
Why wouldn't have Kyle had shot himself going down the street? BEcause he knows the law, unlike Binger, and wouldn't shoot someone one that wasn't an active threat- based only on what people are yelling. "He Shot someone"- but he isn't shooting anyone right now....
Kicked. If "all he uses is one foot" how could Binger protest?
https://youtu.be/mNnfHUtwFBg?t=8170
I was screaming at my TV “Hands and feet kill more people every year than ALL rifles combined!” :mad:
Defense goes for a mistrial, and I would not be shocked if they got it considering how many times the judge has told the prosciutto how out of line he was, and finally got visibly pissed:
KENOSHA, Wis. (AP) — The murder case against Kyle Rittenhouse was thrown into jeopardy Wednesday when his lawyers asked for a mistrial over what appeared to be out-of-bounds questions asked of Rittenhouse by the chief prosecutor. The judge did not immediately rule on the request.
https://news.wttw.com/2021/11/10/defense-calls-rittenhouse-stand-his-murder-trial
If you all didn't see this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lclzFZENkrw
Diamondback
11-10-21, 18:23
Prosecutor seems to be going for a strategy of Mistrial so they can say "we all KNOW the little bastard is guilty as hell but that damn dirty judge wouldn't let our jury give the uppity little Deplorable what he had coming to him"...
john armond
11-10-21, 18:25
I am curious how many cases the prosecutor has prosecuted where something besides a bat, knife or gun was used as a weapon, because according to his questions nothing besides those can hurt you, and even if a pistol is pointed at you it isn’t an actual threat unless the person holding the pistol is using a full arm extension, two hand grip, in a half weaver half isosceles stance as there is no way someone would fire a pistol from any other position.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 18:25
When the judge said that he wanted something from the defense, and then said that he would send something to them- but then said ‘forget it’, I wonder if it was so that he can brush up on mistrial motions and check with some experts.
This thing is the definition of an unfair trial.
First time I’ve ever agreed with Jeffery Tug-tug-tubin.
CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin
"The good news for Kyle Rittenhouse is that he's not on trial for being an idiot. He's on trial for homicide."
"This is a tough case for the prosecution because it does seem like he has a plausible case of self-defense and ... if it were illegal to be an idiot, the jails would be even more crowded than they are now. Homicide is a different matter ... he may have a defense here."
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-10-21, 20:11
"Why didn't the defense re-cross or what ever with Kyle. Binger drew everything out, probably to cut and splice it for closing."
I don't think they wanted to re-direct because Binger had not landed any solid blows and Kyle had been up for a long, long time. Now Kyle's testimony is likely closed except for limited purposes during rebuttal. Kyle had (in my opinion) laid out what he had to say and Binger's points were mostly tedium. I think Binger's credibility here is going to be at issue during closing because he stupidly said he was going to show that Kyle chased Rosenbaum( in his opening). Which is patently absurd. So whatever word twisting quotes he has are likely to be pretty ineffective. My favorite was when he tried to get Kyle to say the guy wasn't pointing his gun at him when the "victim" already testified he pointed the gun at him. Jesus what a douchebag.
The real issue here is the state probably has the right to open and close during closing (meaning they get two closings while the defense gets one). This scumbag is likely to just make stuff up during his closing so the defense will have to be ready to object to his closing (which is typically frowned upon).
Black_Sheep
11-10-21, 20:13
I like the Judge and the way he called out Binger multiple times. You never want to make the judge angry, this I know...
I have about an hour and ten minutes to get through today's testimony. My takeaways from today are Binger isn't as smart as he thinks he is, at times he came off as a bully. I can't help but think that the jury sees him the same way.
Someone said he has a "punchable face", kicking him in the face with "just one foot" would seem more appropriate.
I don't trust the legal system.... but i would name this judge as my health care proxy without hesitation.
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Someone said he has a "punchable face", kicking him in the face with "just one foot" would seem more appropriate.
See post #233.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-10-21, 20:58
"Why didn't the defense re-cross or what ever with Kyle. Binger drew everything out, probably to cut and splice it for closing."
I don't think they wanted to re-direct because Binger had not landed any solid blows and Kyle had been up for a long, long time. Now Kyle's testimony is likely closed except for limited purposes during rebuttal. Kyle had (in my opinion) laid out what he had to say and Binger's points were mostly tedium. I think Binger's credibility here is going to be at issue during closing because he stupidly said he was going to show that Kyle chased Rosenbaum( in his opening). Which is patently absurd. So whatever word twisting quotes he has are likely to be pretty ineffective. My favorite was when he tried to get Kyle to say the guy wasn't pointing his gun at him when the "victim" already testified he pointed the gun at him. Jesus what a douchebag.
The real issue here is the state probably has the right to open and close during closing (meaning they get two closings while the defense gets one). This scumbag is likely to just make stuff up during his closing so the defense will have to be ready to object to his closing (which is typically frowned upon).
If a judge were ever open to squashing the nuts of a prosecutor, after what has happened, this is it.
I think Kyle was not worth the squeeze. Especially if the judge doesn’t throw out the case WITH PREJUDICE. (But can they file other charges?). Did he really add anything?
The Dumb Gun Collector
11-10-21, 21:08
Yes. He looked at the jurors and told them what he was doing and why he did it. Jurors often (rightly)presume you are keeping something from them if you don’t testify. Jury instructions to not hold silence against the defendant are ineffective and actually just draw attention to the issue. Now Kyle’s defense can point out he didn’t hide from questioning because he is telling the truth. I’ve tried (and won) a lot of felony jury trials and I can tell you, jurors want to hear from the defendant and will presume guilt—because that’s how the human mind actually works whatever the Judge says. Taking the fifth is a big old blinking “clue” sign to the jury.
eightmillimeter
11-10-21, 23:11
Chances of a mistrial are better than 50/50. Chances of a mistrial dismissal with prejudice are probably 40/60.
Judges issue admonishments all the time, this one was great, but when he looked right at Binger after lunch and said “I don’t believe you!” that was a bigger legal “moment” than when GG imploded yesterday.
This judge really wants the public to trust a jury outcome, I think he’s more p-o in this case because his hand is being forced to act.
While a mistrial dismissal would be great for KR in theory, a solid jury acquittal would be more beneficial in the long run. He’d never be able to live free constantly painted by MSM as the one who got off on a technicality.
I haven't watched much, if anything but what I have watched leads me to believe the following.
- Several opportunities for a mis-trial already, may eventually happen
- No way he is convicted, as we all knew from watching video when it happened
- He's a good kid who probably shouldn't have been there
- Prosecutor is slimy douche who should be fired for even bringing charges
Diamondback
11-11-21, 09:30
In a just world, Binger and his boss would be facing Misconduct, Malicious Prosecution and Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law charges.
Gabriel556
11-11-21, 09:33
I agree but that would involve a states attorney filing those charges, right? And that’s likely not going to happen.
Diamondback
11-11-21, 09:38
I agree but that would involve a states attorney filing those charges, right? And that’s likely not going to happen.
Federal. If the Statute of Limitations allows and we win in '24, DeSantis's (or whichever R's) AG could bring the action in Federal District of So. WI January 2025.
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