View Full Version : Steve Hornady is apparently a liar...
Straight Shooter
11-01-21, 12:38
https://youtu.be/D-ULdhtFmGA
Im on record here for years as not being a fan of Hornady ammo, for various reason I wont again go into, so boycotting something I already dont buy isnt an option here.
Im glad someone leaked this and exposed Hornady as a liar. He's been lying about his ammo velocities for years.
That first letter pissed me off royally..."nothing we {and ultimately YOU} can do about it". You can kiss my ass is what you can about it.
The worst part is his “correction” memo where he acts as though he didn’t say what he said in the first memo.
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Saw this on FB last week.
This is prolly one in a long line of supposed freedom loving companies being total cucks.
Hahahah well duh
Also that black rifle coffee being a total sell out etc... but hey marketing works and suckers buy into it
turnburglar
11-01-21, 14:33
Sorry; dont know the back story and don't have time to click on the link.
I have personally ran 140gr ELDM 6.5 CM over a chrono and it was some of the hottest factory ammo I tested. Also very good accuracy. I buy 140gr BTHP as a component because its usually the cheapest of Sierra and nosler. I'm always about finding a better way to skin a cat but I am also not into cancel culture if you could shed more light.
SomeOtherGuy
11-01-21, 14:40
I have personally ran 140gr ELDM 6.5 CM over a chrono and it was some of the hottest factory ammo I tested. Also very good accuracy. I buy 140gr BTHP as a component because its usually the cheapest of Sierra and nosler. I'm always about finding a better way to skin a cat but I am also not into cancel culture if you could shed more light.
I've shot several boxes of Superformance Match in two different MOA-or-better .308 rifles (bolt action) and got 3+ MOA groups from each one. Absolute junk. Both rifles consistently shoot under 1 MOA with FGMM, and around 1 MOA with lowly Prvi Partizan match.
I'm not saying your good performance didn't happen, just that some of Hornady's "match" ammo does not work anywhere close to acceptable in some rifles.
Hornady bullets in Black Hills ammo work great for me - equal to Sierra as far as I can tell - but I've never had better than average performance from any of Hornady's loaded ammo.
Straight Shooter
11-01-21, 14:45
Sorry; dont know the back story and don't have time to click on the link.
I have personally ran 140gr ELDM 6.5 CM over a chrono and it was some of the hottest factory ammo I tested. Also very good accuracy. I buy 140gr BTHP as a component because its usually the cheapest of Sierra and nosler. I'm always about finding a better way to skin a cat but I am also not into cancel culture if you could shed more light.
Watch the video...self explanitory.
Straight Shooter
11-01-21, 14:46
The worst part is his “correction” memo where he acts as though he didn’t say what he said in the first memo.
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THAT pissed me right off. As if one cant simply read what was said AND implied before.
Again..no skin off me as I dont/wont buy anything from them again, I just want others to know.
Bill G doing it right
66735
THAT pissed me right off. As if one cant simply read what was said AND implied before.
Again..no skin off me as I dont/wont buy anything from them again, I just want others to know.
I agree. If they wouldn’t have sent out the second memo and just announced we changed our mind, cool. But the second memo insulted our intelligence.
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I agree. If they wouldn’t have sent out the second memo and just announced we changed our mind, cool. But the second memo insulted our intelligence.
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yup agree 100%
ROFL, I JUST came here to post this exact thing...
Boycott Hornady.
Seriously. With friends like these, it's even more important to stick it to them. They should damn well know better.
What some clever employee should have done, is write "NO, F*** YOU" in bold marker on the first memo, and then nailed it to the factory door, a'la Martin Luther, right before everyone checked into work that day...
Bill G doing it right
66735
And he is consistent.
https://youtu.be/vIrFtX8QwPg
I agree. If they wouldn’t have sent out the second memo and just announced we changed our mind, cool. But the second memo insulted our intelligence.
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And has apparently doubled down on it by trying to screw the leaker(s) and ignoring that action would just get leaked too.
No compromise, not one step backward.
Sorry; dont know the back story and don't have time to click on the link.
I have personally ran 140gr ELDM 6.5 CM over a chrono and it was some of the hottest factory ammo I tested. Also very good accuracy. I buy 140gr BTHP as a component because its usually the cheapest of Sierra and nosler. I'm always about finding a better way to skin a cat but I am also not into cancel culture if you could shed more light.
I stopped buying there loaded ammo after reading about multiple guys having kabooms with it (their frontier crap in 5.56) and them Hornady telling them all tough luck. Way too many reports to be a 'one off' sort of thing.
Used to buy their bullets and load my own but after watching the video linked above - Screw them. Sierra or someone else will get my component money going forward.
This garbage mandate has not even been written by OSHA yet and Hornady folded up like a cheap ass paper towel trying to enforce the unconstitutional garbage on their employees. Again, Screw them AND the horse they rode in on.
And he is consistent.
https://youtu.be/vIrFtX8QwPg
That right there is a man worthy of respect...
And has apparently doubled down on it by trying to screw the leaker(s) and ignoring that action would just get leaked too.
To be fair, leaking is a clear violation of company policy and is always pursued with vigor.
They’ll pursue it but these investigations typically find nothing.
How would you feel about leaked Hornady IP?
Leaking company policy is a violation of company policy? That's really stretching things. Comparing that memo to intellectual property is like comparing apples to plastic sporks.
To be fair, leaking is a clear violation of company policy and is always pursued with vigor.
They’ll pursue it but these investigations typically find nothing.
How would you feel about leaked Hornady IP?
I don't think Sierra, Speer, and other companies will be making a better product at Hornady's R&D expense as a result of that info being released.
Not sure it would really even be info kept from the public unless they were waiting to spring that detail on new hires after they had left their previous employment.
I think Steve underestimated the public opposition to government overreach. I think he also overestimated employee compliance. Overall, Hornady was the K-Mart of reloading components, equipment, and ammunition anyway. It won’t hurt many peoples’ feelings to buy a superior product elsewhere.
I hate to punish an entire company for one man’s decision, and in the grand scheme of things, my purchases won’t affect their bottom line, but this was all the nudge I need to buy from Sierra, Berger, etc.
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I guess I'll be the odd man out.
Companies are allowed to determine what health policies they adopt. Employees can then CHOOSE to continue working for them or quit and find a job elsewhere.
Sure the first letter was "pass the buck" BS where they tried to blame the government for giving them no choice in the matter and the second memo was definitely "we didn't say that" BS backtracking. They should have simply announced what they wanted their policy to be and been done with it.
More importantly this is so small potatoes compared to what is going on just about every other place in the world I'm amazed that Liberty Doll has the time to call them out on it or that anyone else here actually cares. And of course they are going to try and find the person who leaked information because they don't want to employ anyone who would wish to harm their company. Nobody wants somebody like that working for them, not you...not me...and not Hornady.
This is also pretty counter productive. Once again "freedom folks" have been directed to target a firearms company as "the enemy." Quite honestly, when we have the real enemies from Biden to Pelosi, from ATF to the FBI and such squared away then and ONLY THEN will I take time to worry about some health directive from a company like Hornady.
In fact, I think I'll buy some ammo.
Of course they can determine their own policy. We can determine it’s against our interest and take our money elsewhere.
ETA: they determined government contracts were more important than bodily autonomy of their employees and contracts were more important than consumer sales.
They make their decision, we make ours.
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I guess I'll be the odd man out.
Companies are allowed to determine what health policies they adopt. Employees can then CHOOSE to continue working for them or quit and find a job elsewhere.
Sure the first letter was "pass the buck" BS where they tried to blame the government for giving them no choice in the matter and the second memo was definitely "we didn't say that" BS backtracking. They should have simply announced what they wanted their policy to be and been done with it.
More importantly this is so small potatoes compared to what is going on just about every other place in the world I'm amazed that Liberty Doll has the time to call them out on it or that anyone else here actually cares. And of course they are going to try and find the person who leaked information because they don't want to employ anyone who would wish to harm their company. Nobody wants somebody like that working for them, not you...not me...and not Hornady.
This is also pretty counter productive. Once again "freedom folks" have been directed to target a firearms company as "the enemy." Quite honestly, when we have the real enemies from Biden to Pelosi, from ATF to the FBI and such squared away then and ONLY THEN will I take time to worry about some health directive from a company like Hornady.
In fact, I think I'll buy some ammo.
Should the company be on the hook if anyone experiences health problems from following their demands?
When did people start getting the idea that just if I exchange my labor for a check, that gives them full control of my life outside those duties?
Leaking company policy is a violation of company policy? That's really stretching things. Comparing that memo to intellectual property is like comparing apples to plastic sporks.
Yes, usually internal company documents are intended to stay inside the company.
I don’t know Hornady’s policy manual and agree this is poorly thought out by them and much prefer the “G” policy.
What about all the other companies pursuing the same path? You gonna boycott every company with more than 100 employees or are you just going to punish those who are generally on our side?
My company is doing the exact same thing, you don’t see me releasing internal documents or even sharing where I work.
Not everything is as black and white as people like to think.
But I respect your freedom to do as you think best.
I will place my ire where it belongs. Squarely on the shoulders of the usurper in office and every single diversity candidate in his miserable cabinet.
BangBang77
11-01-21, 21:54
Has anything actually been mandated yet? Poopypants has only directed OSHA to come up with the guidance. As far as I'm aware, that is the extent of it, correct?
Has anything actually been mandated yet? Poopypants has only directed OSHA to come up with the guidance. As far as I'm aware, that is the extent of it, correct?I think for gov employees and contractors
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Has anything actually been mandated yet? Poopypants has only directed OSHA to come up with the guidance. As far as I'm aware, that is the extent of it, correct?
I’ve been mandated. Fortunately, my chain of command approved my exemption.
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We are Gun Karens, eating our own. The tyrants have us well trained.
Of course they can determine their own policy. We can determine it’s against our interest and take our money elsewhere.
ETA: they determined government contracts were more important than bodily autonomy of their employees and contracts were more important than consumer sales.
They make their decision, we make ours.
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Couldn't agree more. I'm just against the default idea that covid policies automatically make anyone a bad guy. While I'm sure "in theory" they want their employees to be healthy, this is mostly a cost of business decision and insurance rates for vaccinated vs unvaccinated and other considerations are what really comes into play.
Hornady simply needs the balls to stand up and say so. That first letter should have began with "In our continuing effort to keep the prices of our product affordable we have made the following decisions..."
Sad to think there are CEO's who make six figure incomes who can't figure out this basic shit.
Explain what you are doing and why you are doing it. Don't try to suggest you are doing this when in fact you are doing that. People can accept a contrary decision so long as it's supported by logic, reason or fiscal considerations. What people don't like is being BS'd about any thing.
Christ maybe I can be a memo consultant. I'd only charge $10k per page.
Should the company be on the hook if anyone experiences health problems from following their demands?
I wouldn't think so. If people wished to maintain their employment under these policies that is their decision. If they have a negative experience that is more the province of the health care provider and the company that produced the vaccine.
People have negative health problems every day from this treatment or that procedure. Nobody has a magic cure wand. Some things are reliably safe with very few exceptions. Some things are somewhat safe but still way better than the alternative. Some things aren't very safe at all but might still be better than being dead.
The problem of course is the mandate and the related operating costs of complying with or defying expectations.
What if this was diphtheria? Would anyone want to work with somebody that wasn't vaccinated, to potentially spread that stupid shit back around the country again? I realize the objections to covid related subjects but we really are seeing a resurgence of things we thought were defeated long ago because so many people are walking around this country with their third world viruses unchecked.
When did people start getting the idea that just if I exchange my labor for a check, that gives them full control of my life outside those duties?
When their insurance costs started giving them lower rates for having all employees vaccinated. The decision of course remains with you, to continue to trade labor for wages with said company.
Straight Shooter
11-02-21, 04:23
We are Gun Karens, eating our own. The tyrants have us well trained.
With ALL due respect to you MistWolf...Steve Hornady AINT one of mine, at all.
And, just because someone has guns, likes guns, shoots, ect, doesn't automatically mean they are in the inner circle.
I know a BUNCH of gun owning schmucks I want nowhere around me.
Short jump before droit du seigneur comes back into vogue, if women (and men) wish to maintain buying food and shelter that is their decision.
There is no vaccine for SARS-CoV-2. A vaccine must generate antibodies and T cells directed at the correct epitopes of the virus while being safe and providing sustained protection (textbook definition). Variants had already emerged that mutated the epitope before these shots were even distributed to the public. Hence the ability of people injected to become not only infected, but also lack any sterilized immunity and transmit the virus, and even become seriously ill or die from the virus. In addition, the long-term safety is completely unknown. The shots may be safe in the long-term, they may not, it is all unproven speculation. For many age groups, it appears the near-term risk of the shots is greater than the virus itself, with thrombosis events (cerebral, pulmonary embolism) resulting in death occurring. Lastly, any benefit for the vast majority who do not sustain immediate adverse reactions to the shots is extremely short-lived and nowhere near the years of sustained protection required in a vaccine. We are talking months, with subsequent shots likely to generate even shorter durations of immune response.
Any company mandating these experimental injections will gladly enforce any future ban that prevents the sale of firearms or ammo to non-federal agencies.
I wouldn't think so. If people wished to maintain their employment under these policies that is their decision. If they have a negative experience that is more the province of the health care provider and the company that produced the vaccine.
People have negative health problems every day from this treatment or that procedure. Nobody has a magic cure wand. Some things are reliably safe with very few exceptions. Some things are somewhat safe but still way better than the alternative. Some things aren't very safe at all but might still be better than being dead.
The problem of course is the mandate and the related operating costs of complying with or defying expectations.
What if this was diphtheria? Would anyone want to work with somebody that wasn't vaccinated, to potentially spread that stupid shit back around the country again? I realize the objections to covid related subjects but we really are seeing a resurgence of things we thought were defeated long ago because so many people are walking around this country with their third world viruses unchecked.
They could have a don't come in if sick policy that wouldn't affect the other 128 hours a week the company isn't paying them for.
Apparently many employers don't have a problem with 3rd world pathogens since they apparently don't have a problem with hiring 3rd world employees that have brought them back in to the US.
And as nml pointed out the companies doing this won't have a problem with enforcing 2A bans either.
Couldn't agree more. I'm just against the default idea that covid policies automatically make anyone a bad guy. While I'm sure "in theory" they want their employees to be healthy, this is mostly a cost of business decision and insurance rates for vaccinated vs unvaccinated and other considerations are what really comes into play.
Hornady simply needs the balls to stand up and say so. That first letter should have began with "In our continuing effort to keep the prices of our product affordable we have made the following decisions..."
Sad to think there are CEO's who make six figure incomes who can't figure out this basic shit.
Explain what you are doing and why you are doing it. Don't try to suggest you are doing this when in fact you are doing that. People can accept a contrary decision so long as it's supported by logic, reason or fiscal considerations. What people don't like is being BS'd about any thing.
Christ maybe I can be a memo consultant. I'd only charge $10k per page.
Personally, I think it’s the second memo that really topped it off. He pretended like what he said in the first memo wasn’t there in plain black and white. I am dumbfounded that he thinks so little of his employees.
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Has anything actually been mandated yet? Poopypants has only directed OSHA to come up with the guidance. As far as I'm aware, that is the extent of it, correct?
Nothing has been mandated, because they know it is illegal and won't make it through the courts. Right now they're just extorting companies into compliance, just as you'd expect the Mafia to do.............
With ALL due respect to you MistWolf...Steve Hornady AINT one of mine, at all.
And, just because someone has guns, likes guns, shoots, ect, doesn't automatically mean they are in the inner circle.
I know a BUNCH of gun owning schmucks I want nowhere around me.
There are plenty of folks I don't want to hang around with, but that doesn't mean it's right to publicly denounce them and blow every mistake, real or imagined, out of proportion.
When I was working for a large telecom company every now and then we would get a message from the CEO to the effect that we were all swell and needed, until we weren't. Businesses change and when you get right down to it everyone is just part of the machine and expendable. I doubt Hornady is any different. Steven and his executives saw the loss of money and people on the floor aren't so swell anymore. The loss of treasure can make a man a coward it seems. I pray for courage in my own life.
https://www.westernjournal.com/alert-osha-will-start-enforcing-bidens-vaccine-mandate-american-businesses-within-days/
OSHA Will Start Enforcing Biden's Vaccine Mandate on American Businesses Within Days
I agree with Steyr - private company can do what they want. You dont like it and dont want to work there - quit. All the ammo manufactures are running on the thinnest of lines right now. They have no time for any of this BS. Also, if you all have not noticed that there has been massive consolidation in our industry in the last 10 years especially in ammo. Anyone with half a brain can see this is a massive weakness, especially when they are owned by public companies. Hornady is their own beast and family owned. I commend them for that. In general they make good stuff.
They dont need to be in your inner circle but for damn sure they are an ally. Focus on the real enemy and stop with the bs eating our own.
Before I left in early retirement, one of my lieutenants had an ND going into an apartment. The .40 caliber Hornady CRITICAL Duty round went into a couch's wooden structure at a range of about 5 feet. And there it stayed. Hornady sucks donkey wang.
I agree with Steyr - private company can do what they want. You dont like it and dont want to work there - quit. All the ammo manufactures are running on the thinnest of lines right now. They have no time for any of this BS. Also, if you all have not noticed that there has been massive consolidation in our industry in the last 10 years especially in ammo. Anyone with half a brain can see this is a massive weakness, especially when they are owned by public companies. Hornady is their own beast and family owned. I commend them for that. In general they make good stuff.
They dont need to be in your inner circle but for damn sure they are an ally. Focus on the real enemy and stop with the bs eating our own.
How far are you willing to allow a company to mandate things? Mandating a controversial medical procedure is a pretty big "500 lb gorilla" in the room. If they can mandate this, is there any limit to their ability to mandate anything? Maybe the workers, like all of them, should just walk off the job, put a crimp in Steve's cash flow.
As far as friends go, I shoot matches with a guy who is a rabid Demo. He just happens to like guns. He voted for Biden. He literally thought Trump was the most dangerous man in the world. Is that guy my "fiend"? Is Steve Hornady's cave to the government, throwing his employee's liberty under the bus, make him our friend?
How far are you willing to allow a company to mandate things? Mandating a controversial medical procedure is a pretty big "500 lb gorilla" in the room. If they can mandate this, is there any limit to their ability to mandate anything? Maybe the workers, like all of them, should just walk off the job, put a crimp in Steve's cash flow.
As far as friends go, I shoot matches with a guy who is a rabid Demo. He just happens to like guns. He voted for Biden. He literally thought Trump was the most dangerous man in the world. Is that guy my "fiend"? Is Steve Hornady's cave to the government, throwing his employee's liberty under the bus, make him our friend?
In all honesty I dont care. If hornady wants to mandate medical procedures and then their workers, like all of them, just walk off the job, guess who is SOL - Steve! And that will probably force them to rethink their mandates. But at the end of the day they are a private company and this is family business stuff. I am a believer that the free market works.
Again, he doesn't need to be your friend but they are staunch supporters of the 2nd amendment, have a voice, and put money where their mouth is. In my book that makes them an ally.
In all honesty I dont care. If hornady wants to mandate medical procedures and then their workers, like all of them, just walk off the job, guess who is SOL - Steve! And that will probably force them to rethink their mandates. But at the end of the day they are a private company and this is family business stuff. I am a believer that the free market works.
Again, he doesn't need to be your friend but they are staunch supporters of the 2nd amendment, have a voice, and put money where their mouth is. In my book that makes them an ally.
Good to know that some think carte blanc employer coercion related to literally any mandated thing is good As long as the person is really really a 2nd advocate.
Good to know that some think carte blanc employer coercion related to literally any mandated thing is good As long as the person is really really a 2nd advocate.
Not at all what I was saying but you can perceive it however you want.
Plug in Hornady and Geissele. Not as bad as other private businesses getting defended under the they can do anything they want banner, but there is a difference.
https://www.goodjobsfirst.org/subsidy-tracker
In all honesty I dont care. If hornady wants to mandate medical procedures and then their workers, like all of them, just walk off the job, guess who is SOL - Steve! And that will probably force them to rethink their mandates. But at the end of the day they are a private company and this is family business stuff. I am a believer that the free market works.
Again, he doesn't need to be your friend but they are staunch supporters of the 2nd amendment, have a voice, and put money where their mouth is. In my book that makes them an ally.
We know they are doing Chairman Joe's bidding at the present.
Not at all what I was saying but you can perceive it however you want.
Really, then what are you saying? That there really is some line?
Before I left in early retirement, one of my lieutenants had an ND going into an apartment. The .40 caliber Hornady CRITICAL Duty round went into a couch's wooden structure at a range of about 5 feet. And there it stayed. Hornady sucks donkey wang.
I've seen just about every round, from just about every manufacturer do odd things from time to time. Lots of factors involved.
But if you want, get yourself a box of .40 critical defense and set up penetration tests under reasonably controlled conditions and then you will have some level of relevant data.
Lots of Americans are Corporate shills/whores in thought and deed, just the way it is .
Straight Shooter
11-02-21, 21:13
[QUOTE=themonk;2988419]I agree with Steyr - private company can do what they want. You dont like it and dont want to work there - quit. All the ammo manufactures are running on the thinnest of lines right now. They have no time for any of this BS. Also, if you all have not noticed that there has been massive consolidation in our industry in the last 10 years especially in ammo. Anyone with half a brain can see this is a massive weakness, especially when they are owned by public companies. Hornady is their own beast and family owned. I commend them for that. In general they make good stuff.
They dont need to be in your inner circle but for damn sure they are an ally. Focus on the real enemy and stop with the bs eating our own.
FVCK THAT. Ill focus on what I WANT to focus on, and I ALONE decide who is and isnt an "ally". In general from my several years of chrono and shooting their ammo...they DONT make "good stuff".
You have YOUR opinion, but never again tell me what mine is, or what I need to do.
FVCK THAT. Ill focus on what I WANT to focus on, and I ALONE decide who is and isnt an "ally". In general from my several years of chrono and shooting their ammo...they DONT make "good stuff".
You have YOUR opinion, but never again tell me what mine is, or what I need to do.
Yep that is how personal freedom works, only maybe less hostility. You decide for you, I decide for me and everyone else decides for themselves. You put information out there and decide accordingly.
For the record, most people make shit ammo anymore. Everyone knows Rem/UMC is utter garbage but even Rem green box is garbage. Federal is good, Winchester is good and honestly Hornady is also good.
You have to pay a lot more to get "better" ammo and with the current shortage, I want as many players in the game as possible. Competition equals better prices eventually. I kind of hope a LOT of people boycott Hornady, that means it will be more available for people like me who don't give a damn what their vaccination policies happen to be. I sorta wish Lake City would announce similar guidelines for the same reason.
Hopefully this means Hornady 5.45x39 will start being readily available again since Bidet is messing with imports.
And freedom can turn into tyrannical license in the blink of the eye.
[QUOTE=themonk;2988419]I agree with Steyr - private company can do what they want. You dont like it and dont want to work there - quit. All the ammo manufactures are running on the thinnest of lines right now. They have no time for any of this BS. Also, if you all have not noticed that there has been massive consolidation in our industry in the last 10 years especially in ammo. Anyone with half a brain can see this is a massive weakness, especially when they are owned by public companies. Hornady is their own beast and family owned. I commend them for that. In general they make good stuff.
They dont need to be in your inner circle but for damn sure they are an ally. Focus on the real enemy and stop with the bs eating our own.
FVCK THAT. Ill focus on what I WANT to focus on, and I ALONE decide who is and isnt an "ally". In general from my several years of chrono and shooting their ammo...they DONT make "good stuff".
You have YOUR opinion, but never again tell me what mine is, or what I need to do.
And this is how you love your neighbor? Get the shot or else.
You can be a second amendment supporter and still be anti-freedom.
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You can be a second amendment supporter and still be anti-freedom.
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Evidently the laws protecting workers from their employers capricious ways are anti-freedom.
Averageman
11-02-21, 23:14
Well if you own the business, you can run it any way you please.
That being said, this entire mandate is quasi legal and morally unethical.
Add to that the mealy mouth ways some people try to CYA once they're caught in a lie and this is what you end up with.
In all honesty I dont care. If hornady wants to mandate medical procedures and then their workers, like all of them, just walk off the job, guess who is SOL - Steve! And that will probably force them to rethink their mandates. But at the end of the day they are a private company and this is family business stuff. I am a believer that the free market works.
Again, he doesn't need to be your friend but they are staunch supporters of the 2nd amendment, have a voice, and put money where their mouth is. In my book that makes them an ally.
LOL, this has nothing to do with a “free market”. This is federal government extortion, ergo a manipulated market. The US doesn’t have a “free market”. We get told what to buy, how to buy it and how much to buy all the time. ACA anyone?
Right now our inflation rate is a direct result of market manipulation by the feds. The same can be said of our labor shortages and supply chain woes. All of it is a direct result of bad faith acts by uncle sugar. Hell, what Hornady does or doesn’t do is irrelevant because I haven’t seen their ammo on the shelves or anywhere near a sane price point online in over a year.
They can do whatever they want, but don’t piss down people’s backs and tell them it’s raining. That’s just low class bs. :(
Evidently the laws protecting workers from their employers capricious ways are anti-freedom.
Thank god nobodies occupation is forced on them. I worked a bunch of shitty jobs, when it became enough I either found a better one or just quit. I can't remember the last employer who forced me to do anything I didn't want to do.
LOL, this has nothing to do with a “free market”. This is federal government extortion, ergo a manipulated market. The US doesn’t have a “free market”. We get told what to buy, how to buy it and how much to buy all the time. ACA anyone?
Right now our inflation rate is a direct result of market manipulation by the feds. The same can be said of our labor shortages and supply chain woes. All of it is a direct result of bad faith acts by uncle sugar. Hell, what Hornady does or doesn’t do is irrelevant because I haven’t seen their ammo on the shelves or anywhere near a sane price point online in over a year.
They can do whatever they want, but don’t piss down people’s backs and tell them it’s raining. That’s just low class bs. :(
That's funny, I'm pretty sure NOBODY in government wanted me to buy any or all of the ammo I just bought. By the same token nobody forced me to buy it either. So with ammo, as is being discussed in this specific context, seems it's very much a free market.
I was hoping to buy some Hornady 5.45x39 but at .45 cents a round I decided to not buy any. Again, free market.
Unfortunately government services such as welfare, public schools, social security and now health insurance are little more than ponzi schemes so a market doesn't truly exist. I'm all for dialing back all of the governments ponzi schemes. If it were simply another option that we could all voluntarily opt out of at any time THEN it would be a market option.
Thank god nobodies occupation is forced on them. I worked a bunch of shitty jobs, when it became enough I either found a better one or just quit. I can't remember the last employer who forced me to do anything I didn't want to do.
But their medical choices are. Let see, take this drug or lose your job. Stop owning guns or lose your job. Work around asbestos or lose your job. I could go on. I say lets bring back the days of child labor or sweat shop conditions. All for freedom. Work 18 hour days or lose your job. For a lot of people it's not so easy to change jobs. Maybe we just need more illegals so we can teach pampered Americans that the boss is really the BOSS. And a Boss that can demand almost anything so you can keep your job.
Hahahah well duh
Also that black rifle coffee being a total sell out etc... but hey marketing works and suckers buy into it
Nailed it ^
The absolute state of America.
But their medical choices are. Let see, take this drug or lose your job. Stop owning guns or lose your job. Work around asbestos or lose your job. I could go on. I say lets bring back the days of child labor or sweat shop conditions. All for freedom. Work 18 hour days or lose your job. For a lot of people it's not so easy to change jobs. Maybe we just need more illegals so we can teach pampered Americans that the boss is really the BOSS. And a Boss that can demand almost anything so you can keep your job.
Just stop with the nonsense.
You missed my entire point, "when it became enough I either found a better one or just quit."
So my employer wants me to take a drug and I don't want it. Bye. He doesn't owe me a job and I don't owe him my unconditional loyalty.
Stop owning guns?!? I don't even think employers do that in CA. Might be the most absurd suggestion you ever made in a long history of absurd suggestions. Can't bring them to work, that's fine, their property and all. But I've never heard of any employer anywhere even attempting to tell their employees they can't own guns or they risk their jobs.
And then you go on to equate the freedom I was suggesting with sweatshops? Did you finally go off the deep end? Here is the difference, nobody is allowed to quit a sweat shop, that is why they are in other countries. If your job here sucks, get better at it and move up or if that isn't an option move on. I'd wager nearly every single person on this forum has done so all their life.
When I was younger I used to put up with BS because I was very replaceable, but honestly so were those shit jobs. That meant I was willing to accept the shit job but I was only going to accept so much BS in addition to the shit job. And the more I learned and the more useful I became, the less shit I was willing to accept.
Maybe this is just your situation and your BOSS is running your life. I never had a boss who made me do something I didn't want to do. If that isn't your situation, you need to seriously reevaluate your life. I hope it is NOT your actual situation and you are just being out of touch with reality to attempt to make a point.
For anyone who is here legally, it's extremely easy to change your job. You just let them know. And the crappier the job is, the easier it is to find one just like it. Now if you have a really, really good job...then you have a decision to make. But you are still the one deciding what you will put up with.
Lone exception being guys in the military who don't get a choice, but they generally don't get to decide anything about most of the shit they are gonna do tomorrow. And 18 hour days and nothing unusual to them.
Steyr, I think Tom is suggesting that as with all things of this nature, a slippery slope is what's coming. Loss of one freedom leads to loss of progressively more serious ones.
Though I agree with Tom that there is certainly plenty of precedent for what he's saying, I also believe that Steve Hornady has likely run his business as "king of the castle" for a long long time. Typically large family businesses are run by decree instead of committee, and it shows in this case too. He's not a man who is used to hearing the word "no."
I tend to think his arrogance and cavalier attitude about his employees' careers is what pisses people off most about this situation. I can certain empathize with that sentiment. There is a magnetically nobility in a leader who genuinely cares about his people. A nobility Steve Hornady clearly knows nothing about.
Does that make him a "bad person"? Not necessarily, I suppose. Certainly doesn't make him a particularly good one though. Personally, I hope he gets a good dose of humility sooner rather than later. Humility comes to us all; albeit sometimes too late to make a difference.
https://www.westernjournal.com/alert-osha-will-start-enforcing-bidens-vaccine-mandate-american-businesses-within-days/
OSHA Will Start Enforcing Biden's Vaccine Mandate on American Businesses Within Days
This does not come as a surprise. Companies with Federal contracts and/or who receive Federal business assistance funds will have a choice to make once Biden's people start to press the issue. It all comes down to money.
We know they are doing Chairman Joe's bidding at the present.Actually, you might be. My view: a private company exercising its decisions is far less of an issue than attacking a company we *need* for for hobby and 2A rights.
Anyone who doesn't see that losing a pro 2A firearms related company is doing Biden's will and the anti-gun long-term plan, is simply being short-sighted.
Even if you don't agree with his decision regarding vax status, or even his managerial style.
Production lines are prime risk for covid transmission, and can take down an entire line. We have seen this in GA with food related production lines.
You going to burn your glock when they do similar for their plant in GA?
Evidently the laws protecting workers from their employers capricious ways are anti-freedom.You know, we make fun of unions. Then willing go to work for companies in "right to work" states, which largely means "terminate at will".
which means, the company can make a policy like this and you have 3 choices: abide, quit, or force them to fire you.
A private company can make a decision that everyone must wear pink shirts and matching tennis shoes if they want... and fire anyone who does not. Same for "abide by company policies" as long as it does not discriminate base on sex, race, religion, etc. Or does not involve harassment or bullying.
Companies have to find a balance of not making stupid polices and running off good workers VS meeting the needs of the business.
If you don't like this you can go to work for a union (warts and all) and get a bit more protection. But look how well they're protecting their workers.
You can chose to not buy hornady products, that is your prerogative. But to wish ill will on them, and try to run them out of business? That hurts second amendment rights long term.
Just stop with the nonsense.
You missed my entire point, "when it became enough I either found a better one or just quit."
So my employer wants me to take a drug and I don't want it. Bye. He doesn't owe me a job and I don't owe him my unconditional loyalty.
Stop owning guns?!? I don't even think employers do that in CA. Might be the most absurd suggestion you ever made in a long history of absurd suggestions. Can't bring them to work, that's fine, their property and all. But I've never heard of any employer anywhere even attempting to tell their employees they can't own guns or they risk their jobs.
And then you go on to equate the freedom I was suggesting with sweatshops? Did you finally go off the deep end? Here is the difference, nobody is allowed to quit a sweat shop, that is why they are in other countries. If your job here sucks, get better at it and move up or if that isn't an option move on. I'd wager nearly every single person on this forum has done so all their life.
When I was younger I used to put up with BS because I was very replaceable, but honestly so were those shit jobs. That meant I was willing to accept the shit job but I was only going to accept so much BS in addition to the shit job. And the more I learned and the more useful I became, the less shit I was willing to accept.
Maybe this is just your situation and your BOSS is running your life. I never had a boss who made me do something I didn't want to do. If that isn't your situation, you need to seriously reevaluate your life. I hope it is NOT your actual situation and you are just being out of touch with reality to attempt to make a point.
For anyone who is here legally, it's extremely easy to change your job. You just let them know. And the crappier the job is, the easier it is to find one just like it. Now if you have a really, really good job...then you have a decision to make. But you are still the one deciding what you will put up with.
Lone exception being guys in the military who don't get a choice, but they generally don't get to decide anything about most of the shit they are gonna do tomorrow. And 18 hour days and nothing unusual to them.
What the employer owes you is to do the right thing. Is mandating a sketchy vaccine at the behest of a wretchedly evil government because you'll lose money the right thing?
You're a libertarian, I'm not. Whatever "the right thing is", we certainly disagree at some major points, but then we always do.
Actually, you might be. My view: a private company exercising its decisions is far less of an issue than attacking a company we *need* for for hobby and 2A rights.
Anyone who doesn't see that losing a pro 2A firearms related company is doing Biden's will and the anti-gun long-term plan, is simply being short-sighted.
Even if you don't agree with his decision regarding vax status, or even his managerial style.
Production lines are prime risk for covid transmission, and can take down an entire line. We have seen this in GA with food related production lines.
You going to burn your glock when they do similar for their plant in GA?
The private company has taken tax subsidies which is something not endearing when playing the private company angle.
Pro 2A indicates a specific claim. Making a product doesn't indicate anything beyond making the product. Bill Ruger obviously wasn't pro 2A as an example despite wanting to be perceived as such. Hornady plays up NSSF and NRA donations. Haven't heard much about NSSF actions, but NRA has a history(like many other donation absorbers) of the money not at all going where they claim it is going.
Illness concern claim is at best moot point since the vaccine doesn't prevent contracting or transmitting covid and it isn't unusual for vaccinated people who have knowingly been exposed or begin exhibiting symptoms to go do what ever they want and expose others since they falsely believe all is well and good.
Not sure if you read the first Hornady memo or not, but it acknowledged everything has moved beyond health so health concerns aren't the motivating factor while doing Biden's bidding is.
What the employer owes you is to do the right thing. Is mandating a sketchy vaccine at the behest of a wretchedly evil government because you'll lose money the right thing?
You're a libertarian, I'm not. Whatever "the right thing is", we certainly disagree at some major points, but then we always do.
I don't think company doing things like receiving tax subsidies or carrying out .gov wishes falls under the umbrella of libertarianism.
Very similar to folks who observe a company donate to a politician to get favorable treatment(or negative acts against competitors), but insist it is a free market.
I don't think company doing things like receiving tax subsidies or carrying out .gov wishes falls under the umbrella of libertarianism.
Very similar to folks who observe a company donate to a politician to get favorable treatment(or negative acts against competitors), but insist it is a free market.
That's true, it wouldn't be libertarian. I was referring to the idea that employers a have right to deal with their employees as they see fit, with, seemingly, little restriction. Whatever the employer might foist on the employees, which in this thread is a gov't mandated vaccine, would be their freedom to do, the employees only recourse is to quit. I would hold that the employer, employee relationships are to be governed by, IMO, higher ideals and requirements, not some fallacious idea about freedom that says freedom is doing whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt someone. Ironically, the question then becomes is Steve Hornady hurting people by the imposition of this mandate....I certainly think so.
Dont want a boss that bends a knee to the gov when something is not legal for them to force on you anyway plain and simple
What the employer owes you is to do the right thing. Is mandating a sketchy vaccine at the behest of a wretchedly evil government because you'll lose money the right thing?
You're a libertarian, I'm not. Whatever "the right thing is", we certainly disagree at some major points, but then we always do.
Politics is irrelevant. And Employer owes you NOTHING, you owe an employer NOTHING. They can adopt any policy they wish, you can end your employment with them at any time. There is no mandate.
Politics is irrelevant. And Employer owes you NOTHING, you owe an employer NOTHING. They can adopt any policy they wish, you can end your employment with them at any time. There is no mandate.
Our world views are so fundamentally different you can not see that we ALL are required to do right to each other. It's the difference between belief and unbelief. Loving your neighbor is an action not just a quaint saying. But such is a fallen world.
Politics is irrelevant. And Employer owes you NOTHING, you owe an employer NOTHING. They can adopt any policy they wish, you can end your employment with them at any time. There is no mandate.
As near as I can tell no one here is employed by Hornady.
What are you concerned that potential Hornady customers are going to do that will force Hornady the company to stop doing everything it wants to do to Hornady employees?
Politics is irrelevant. And Employer owes you NOTHING, you owe an employer NOTHING. They can adopt any policy they wish, you can end your employment with them at any time. There is no mandate.
While I agree with most if this, there does come a line where we will not have ANY options if we want to feed our families unless there is some pushback and some consequence to actions.
The federal government is the biggest employer in this nation. They are the biggest consumer with hooks into almost all businesses via contracts, or sub contracts. If they can coerce businesses into mandating more things they will. They will NEVER stop. EVER.
As a consumer you have the right to chose to not support businesses that don’t align with your values. Just as I refuse to spend $$ at any business that bans guns, even on the rare occasion I’m
not armed, I have the right to not buy products from other folks. Maybe that just leaves more for the rest, who knows.
Honestly, I’d have more respect for companies they flat out accepted responsibility for their choices. Quit with this nutless we don’t want to do this but we have to. No you don’t. You can choose to tell the FedGov to go buy from distribution like everyone else.
While I agree with most if this, there does come a line where we will not have ANY options if we want to feed our families unless there is some pushback and some consequence to actions.
The federal government is the biggest employer in this nation. They are the biggest consumer with hooks into almost all businesses via contracts, or sub contracts. If they can coerce businesses into mandating more things they will. They will NEVER stop. EVER.
As a consumer you have the right to chose to not support businesses that don’t align with your values. Just as I refuse to spend $$ at any business that bans guns, even on the rare occasion I’m
not armed, I have the right to not buy products from other folks. Maybe that just leaves more for the rest, who knows.
Honestly, I’d have more respect for companies they flat out accepted responsibility for their choices. Quit with this nutless we don’t want to do this but we have to. No you don’t. You can choose to tell the FedGov to go buy from distribution like everyone else.
It's been bandied about for years that gun companies should cut off the police in places like California where blatant hypocrisy exists, and they don't cut them off. Their 2 nd bonifides suffer IMO. It's money in the end. Do I advocate boycotts on different manufactures of gun stuff, no. Not Glock, not Hornady. I have to buy things from all kinds of companies that are slightly to grossly inconsistent with their what's right and what's wrong theory and practice. It's the world we live in.
With gov't mandates it was Obamacare, now vaccines, who knows what's next, hopefully nothing, but probably not. No doubt feverish minds are hard at work.
Politics is irrelevant. And Employer owes you NOTHING, you owe an employer NOTHING. They can adopt any policy they wish, you can end your employment with them at any time. There is no mandate.
And that employer makes a product. They aren’t entitled to my business. They aren’t entitled to my respect. They aren’t entitled to a favorable opinion from me. They aren’t entitled to me recommending their products.
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And that employer makes a product. They aren’t entitled to my business. They aren’t entitled to my respect. They aren’t entitled to a favorable opinion from me. They aren’t entitled to me recommending their products.
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Not even sure why you think there is an argument in any of that. I honestly can't think of anything where anyone is required to do any of that for anything.
Not even sure why you think there is an argument in any of that. I honestly can't think of anything where anyone is required to do any of that for anything.
You made the point that employers don’t owe anything to employees and vice versa. I don’t think there was an argument there. We all know people can quit jobs they don’t like. I don’t think anybody made the case that Steve Hornady owed his employees anything or they him.
But I can and will quit supporting the company over this.
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As near as I can tell no one here is employed by Hornady.
What are you concerned that potential Hornady customers are going to do that will force Hornady the company to stop doing everything it wants to do to Hornady employees?
I'm actually not concerned about anything regarding Hornady. I'm not worried about what they will do, I'm not worried about what their employees might do. That is their business, not mine, and that includes the employees who will do whatever is in their best interest.
While I agree with most if this, there does come a line where we will not have ANY options if we want to feed our families unless there is some pushback and some consequence to actions.
The federal government is the biggest employer in this nation. They are the biggest consumer with hooks into almost all businesses via contracts, or sub contracts. If they can coerce businesses into mandating more things they will. They will NEVER stop. EVER.
As a consumer you have the right to chose to not support businesses that don’t align with your values. Just as I refuse to spend $$ at any business that bans guns, even on the rare occasion I’m
not armed, I have the right to not buy products from other folks. Maybe that just leaves more for the rest, who knows.
Honestly, I’d have more respect for companies they flat out accepted responsibility for their choices. Quit with this nutless we don’t want to do this but we have to. No you don’t. You can choose to tell the FedGov to go buy from distribution like everyone else.
Not sure I see any argument there either. Of course customers and potential customers are free to attempt to influence the decisions of manufacturers. I'm just saying for ME, this is pretty much a non issue that won't change what ammo I buy. I much more concerned with quality, reliability and price.
I also wonder how many people are holding Hornady's feet to the fire over this issue but regularly purchase brands like Priv Partizan without even knowing or caring what their policies might be regarding employees. And just so we are clear, PP is a name I just pulled out of a hat, I have no idea what their policies are on any given issue.
With gov't mandates it was Obamacare, now vaccines, who knows what's next, hopefully nothing, but probably not. No doubt feverish minds are hard at work.
And this is really the only legit complaint. When the government mandates something, then it is overstep regardless of whether it's health care, vaccines or banning certain firearms. Nobody has a choice to go simply work for another government, they can't move to a more freedom friendly state, they are simply forced.
People can decide to not buy this brand or not buy that brand due to a companies policies, but with government we only have the one we have. That is the source of the actual problem with all of this discussion.
But I can and will quit supporting the company over this.
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And that is of course, completely YOUR decision to make. I boycott all kinds of shit for all kinds of reasons. Many companies just don't value my business enough to care about my views. I try not to get insane about it to the point I live in a tire hut eating only "freedom friendly" canned chili and rice bu I try and think about where my money is spent.
I also think long and hard before I decide a firearm or ammo manufacturer is the "enemy." Turning us against our own and letting us do the heavy lifting is one of the oldest tricks in the playbook. Sometimes it's true, as in the case of Ruger when Old Bill was running things, other times people probably need a little more perspective. But freedom is everyone's choice so I'm certainly not gonna try and tell you what you should do.
Freedom for me isn’t just about the second amendment, but the second memo that clearly states that he didn’t say what he said in the first memo clearly shows he thinks we are stupid. While there are alternatives, I’ll choose those.
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Freedom for me isn’t just about the second amendment, but the second memo that clearly states that he didn’t say what he said in the first memo clearly shows he thinks we are stupid. While there are alternatives, I’ll choose those.
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So if you find my first post, you'd see I completely agree. It was backpeddling BS and I'd have had more respect if they simply stated "We looked at the issue and have decided on the following policy...etc."
But such actions on the part of CEOs who refuse to accept any accountability are probably across the board with the lone exception of maybe Ronnie Barrett (who is the last one I remember telling the anti gun crowd to FO) and "to me" it certainly isn't important enough to influence my ammo purchases which are based mostly on availability, quality and price.
But again, you do you. If you think it's important enough to YOU, then vote with your dollars. It's really the last true right any of us have, or at least those of us who still have dollars to spend.
I just think people are sometimes hypocrites about this shit. Pakistan literally hid Bin Laden from us, but the moment POF put MP5 clones on the market for a little over $1 a few years back, they sold out almost overnight. Same people will cry today about Hornady being wishy washy. Some folks can be terribly staunch about their beliefs when it's nothing more than ammo and similar priced alternatives exist, and I'm speaking in general and not making references to anyone here.
This is an interesting topic because, where do we draw the line exactly, when choosing who to boycott? Many among us own Colts, Rugers, Springfields, S&Ws, complete with Hillary Holes. I don’t remember all of the reasons, but all of those companies have been accused of being anti-2a or anti-freedom at some point. And optics…chinese optics for days abound in this forum. Even I have one now. We’re more than willing to fund our literal enemy, in a nation with no 2a, at all, that is WELL known for abusing its workers. I just bought 3k of russian ammo, myself, without a thought toward what their internal policies might be. Many of us routinely buy ammo from crazy eastern Euro places that likely have no concept of freedom for their employees. But, if it saves us 1¢, we’ll buy Tula or shop at Wal-Mart, a place most certainly worthy of boycott.
So… Hornady effed up. Maybe big, maybe not. Worse than some of the above options? I don’t really know yet; something for me to think about next time I decide whether to buy ammo from russia or from Hornady, or from Federal or Winchester (both have contracts…..) or whoever. The big question is… are there many of you without sin to cast this stone? Do you own anything from china, or shop at Wal-Mart, in other words? Maybe you buy a little commie steel-cased in an ammo shortage sometimes?
Steve Hornady isn't a good boss and I'm not boycotting anyone.
Do you own anything from china, or shop at Wal-Mart, in other words? Maybe you buy a little commie steel-cased in an ammo shortage sometimes?
Unless you were just born then you own something made from China. Even if you bought something not made in China it may have Chinese made components. Ultimately it's unavoidable. But I try my best not to. Nor shop at Walmart. I live in a large metropolitan area where Walmart is not my only option and if I can't find it locally there's always the internet. If it's simply about want and not need then I simply don't want it. If I can't afford or get a hold of none Chinese optics I still have irons. Not having optics doesn't instantly turn the firearm into a foam noodle.
Since I don't have any immediate emergencies I can shop around or decide if I really do need that product vs just want. Should I spend more money on the US or none Chinese made version?
To tie this back to mandates I recognize and freely admit that I am weird/odd. None of the unvaccinated exclusions they try to pass I give a shit about and in many cases don't do. There has not been one thing that would make me say ok now Im going to get it. No travel? No problem. Can't go to restaurants? I don't do corporate restaurants anyway and if a local place doesn't want me....their loss. Sports? TV.....if I was interested but I'm not. Stopped following anything after the 94 Baseball strike. I've never been an asocial (correct term for what most people refer to as antisocial) person but I have no problems following my own belief and am quite content sitting in my backyard with a steak over a fire pit, a good drink and my dog. I wouldn't know if the world disappeared forever.
I don't buy or shoot Hornady because of the price and overall availability of other manufacturers. They never had LE 50 round boxes of 9/40/45 like Speer Gold Dot has and so I never thought of Hornady in terms of handgun ammo and that just translated to overall ammo purchases.
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I don't buy or shoot Hornady because of the price and overall availability of other manufacturers. They never had LE 50 round boxes of 9/40/45 like Speer Gold Dot has and so I never thought of Hornady in terms of handgun ammo and that just translated to overall ammo purchases.
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Sorry to cherry pick a single thing from your post, but they did/do actually have that. 50 round boxes of Critical Duty were widely available in my area pre-panic, and I was routinely buying 50 rd boxes of 135gr practice ammo last year, although I’m not sure how widely available that was. They also used to have sacks of I-don’t-remember-how-much XTP loads that were quite cheap prior to the panic. I think it was like 80 or 150 rounds or something like that.
To be fair, I carry RA9T, and I’ve had mixed feelings about Hornady ammo for a long time. And, I get it, its near impossible to avoid buying chinese shit at this point. I recently tried very hard to replace the microwave I’ve been without for like 2 years with literally any non-chinese one, and could not do so. I broke down and bought one.
Hahahah well duh
Also that black rifle coffee being a total sell out etc... but hey marketing works and suckers buy into it
Black Rifle Coffee is trying to go public which explains their cuckiness. They are more interested in liberals buying their stock than they are interested in their base.
Sorry to cherry pick a single thing from your post, but they did/do actually have that. 50 round boxes of Critical Duty were widely available in my area pre-panic, and I was routinely buying 50 rd boxes of 135gr practice ammo last year, although I’m not sure how widely available that was. They also used to have sacks of I-don’t-remember-how-much XTP loads that were quite cheap prior to the panic. I think it was like 80 or 150 rounds or something like that.
To be fair, I carry RA9T, and I’ve had mixed feelings about Hornady ammo for a long time. And, I get it, its near impossible to avoid buying chinese shit at this point. I recently tried very hard to replace the microwave I’ve been without for like 2 years with literally any non-chinese one, and could not do so. I broke down and bought one.
After I typed that I went in the basement to look around and actually found a 50rd box of 40sw Critical Duty. Don't know where I got it. That being said around here you would find either GD 50rd boxes for about $32 or Hornady 20rd (or was it 25) boxes for about the same price. Winchester Rangers were available in 50 count as well. I have some 127 +p+ somewhere, and at the time they were pretty cheap but the most common in 50rd was Gold Dot. That could be found anywhere. The rest were hit or miss. Knowing that Gold Dot was a good brand I didn't really care if the others were available, I just bought GD.
I know the feeling. Replaced some parts on my car earlier this year with some Chinese made parts. Had no choice! I need to replace my work PC and that's obviously going to be Chinese
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After I typed that I went in the basement to look around and actually found a 50rd box of 40sw Critical Duty. Don't know where I got it. That being said around here you would find either GD 50rd boxes for about $32 or Hornady 20rd (or was it 25) boxes for about the same price. Winchester Rangers were available in 50 count as well. I have some 127 +p+ somewhere, and at the time they were pretty cheap but the most common in 50rd was Gold Dot. That could be found anywhere. The rest were hit or miss. Knowing that Gold Dot was a good brand I didn't really care if the others were available, I just bought GD.
I know the feeling. Replaced some parts on my car earlier this year with some Chinese made parts. Had no choice! I need to replace my work PC and that's obviously going to be Chinese
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While I have some old stock Ranger 127 +P+, everything in rotation for me for me is either 124gr Gold Dot or HST (from 50 round boxes). I'm just not a fan of Hornady's duty ammo options.
Who gives a shit if Hornaday mandates vaccines for employees?
Who gives a shit if Hornaday mandates vaccines for employees?
Certainly their employees. And evidently many of their customers.
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Certainly their employees. And evidently many of their customers.
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I suppose the market will determine the impact.
Who gives a shit if Hornaday mandates vaccines for employees?
I think the lying is more of an issue to some, as indicated by the thread title.
Something to keep in mind concerning the just quit and go elsewhere idea, companies agreeing not to hire each other's employees.
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-others-settle-anti-poaching-lawsuit-for-415-million/
Something to keep in mind concerning the just quit and go elsewhere idea, companies agreeing not to hire each other's employees.
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-others-settle-anti-poaching-lawsuit-for-415-million/
First those are tech companies who will be complete lemmings. Second that is more about "don't take my skills and go work for X" considerations. Given that silicon valley is founded on intellectual theft, I can understand why they might try and create a law like that.
First those are tech companies who will be complete lemmings. Second that is more about "don't take my skills and go work for X" considerations. Given that silicon valley is founded on intellectual theft, I can understand why they might try and create a law like that.
That kind of thing isn't limited to tech companies.
I thought people who didn't like it could just up and go elsewhere and neither party owes the other anything?
Is that a lifetime thing where the company gets to decide where a person works or doesn't? I didn't see anything in that about waiting a year or similar before switching to another company.
hotrodder636
11-07-21, 13:37
I am with you. This is very low on my list of give a shit, just my $0.02. Especially when ammo is hard enough to find these days, I don’t see the point in trying to burn down an ammo manufacturer.
I guess I'll be the odd man out.
Companies are allowed to determine what health policies they adopt. Employees can then CHOOSE to continue working for them or quit and find a job elsewhere.
Sure the first letter was "pass the buck" BS where they tried to blame the government for giving them no choice in the matter and the second memo was definitely "we didn't say that" BS backtracking. They should have simply announced what they wanted their policy to be and been done with it.
More importantly this is so small potatoes compared to what is going on just about every other place in the world I'm amazed that Liberty Doll has the time to call them out on it or that anyone else here actually cares. And of course they are going to try and find the person who leaked information because they don't want to employ anyone who would wish to harm their company. Nobody wants somebody like that working for them, not you...not me...and not Hornady.
This is also pretty counter productive. Once again "freedom folks" have been directed to target a firearms company as "the enemy." Quite honestly, when we have the real enemies from Biden to Pelosi, from ATF to the FBI and such squared away then and ONLY THEN will I take time to worry about some health directive from a company like Hornady.
In fact, I think I'll buy some ammo.
I am with you. This is very low on my list of give a shit, just my $0.02. Especially when ammo is hard enough to find these days, I don’t see the point in trying to burn down an ammo manufacturer.
Ammo manufacturers are in the catbird seat and can't make it fast enough. For now. Assuming we don't all go over the cliff, there will come a time when people have options again. I think a lot of people don't like dealing with liars. I know I'll remember.
Ammo manufacturers are in the catbird seat and can't make it fast enough. For now. Assuming we don't all go over the cliff, there will come a time when people have options again. I think a lot of people don't like dealing with liars. I know I'll remember.
So seriously, Hornady is one of the few we "know about." But if you don't think this shit is SOP across the board you are kidding yourself. The entire Freedom Group is pretty much 100% FOS all the time and they own a lot of brands.
I'm pretty hard pressed to think of a single manufacturer that hasn't been called out on their BS at least once. Barrett and Magpul are probably the only ones.
The companies that have tried to screw us and then lied about it are too numerous to mention.
So seriously, Hornady is one of the few we "know about." But if you don't think this shit is SOP across the board you are kidding yourself. The entire Freedom Group is pretty much 100% FOS all the time and they own a lot of brands.
I'm pretty hard pressed to think of a single manufacturer that hasn't been called out on their BS at least once. Barrett and Magpul are probably the only ones.
The companies that have tried to screw us and then lied about it are too numerous to mention.
That's why I said there are various degrees of getting hosed. Almost all of them are inconsistent on the freedom front. We can't boycott them all.
So seriously, Hornady is one of the few we "know about." But if you don't think this shit is SOP across the board you are kidding yourself. The entire Freedom Group is pretty much 100% FOS all the time and they own a lot of brands.
I'm pretty hard pressed to think of a single manufacturer that hasn't been called out on their BS at least once. Barrett and Magpul are probably the only ones.
The companies that have tried to screw us and then lied about it are too numerous to mention.
That’s exactly why we call them on their bullshit when they do it. Every one of them has lost profit margins when they openly lied or capitulated, and that’s exactly how it should be. It doesn’t have to last forever, just long enough to hurt a little bit.
Feel free to give them a pass if you like, but you’re not swaying anyone.
That’s exactly why we call them on their bullshit when they do it. Every one of them has lost profit margins when they openly lied or capitulated, and that’s exactly how it should be. It doesn’t have to last forever, just long enough to hurt a little bit.
Feel free to give them a pass if you like, but you’re not swaying anyone.
I have no prob making Steve feel a little pain, but I'm not sure he needs the full "Zumbo".
I have no prob making Steve feel a little pain, but I'm not sure he needs the full "Zumbo".
Agreed. He doesn’t need an intervention, but he should be feeling a lot like Aaron Rogers about now.
That’s exactly why we call them on their bullshit when they do it. Every one of them has lost profit margins when they openly lied or capitulated, and that’s exactly how it should be. It doesn’t have to last forever, just long enough to hurt a little bit.
Feel free to give them a pass if you like, but you’re not swaying anyone.
Not trying to sway anyone. I have no vested interest in protecting Hornady from anything.
But back in the 90s Colt pretty much wrote the Clinton Assault Weapon ban. Prior to it's passage they voluntarily removed bayo lugs and collapsible stocks from their rifles because those were "military features", probably one of the single biggest betrayals in modern firearms history. Are we all gonna shitcan our Colts? Stop buying Colts?
Bill Ruger was the other player and the main driver behind the 10 round magazine limit and very on the record stating no civilian needs a magazine with more than 10 rounds and he also stopped selling full capacity magazines before the ban went into effect and even felt the Mini 14 GB wasn't suitable for civilian sales because it had a bayo lug and accepted a 20 round magazine. Is everyone gonna throw out their Ruger LCPs and other Ruger firearms?
Then there was S&W with their "smart gun" that could only be fired by the person wearing an electronic "authorized user" device. They basically promoted a scheme where one day all firearms would be electronically controlled and require authorization to function. Is everyone gonna get rid of the M&P firearms?
What Hornady did in comparison is laughable but people are vowing "never again" just because one of the owners is FOS and tried to BS his way through a health care policy debate. I mean you can care if you want, I don't care if you do, but I can't say I understand nailing Hornady to the cross over what is basically trivium compared to the mountains of treasonous shit some manufacturers have engaged in.
I have no prob making Steve feel a little pain, but I'm not sure he needs the full "Zumbo".
And so everyone is on the same page, I'm 100% good with the above.
So seriously, Hornady is one of the few we "know about." But if you don't think this shit is SOP across the board you are kidding yourself. The entire Freedom Group is pretty much 100% FOS all the time and they own a lot of brands.
I'm pretty hard pressed to think of a single manufacturer that hasn't been called out on their BS at least once. Barrett and Magpul are probably the only ones.
The companies that have tried to screw us and then lied about it are too numerous to mention.
Freedom Group is no longer. Bankrupt and sold off.
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Freedom Group is no longer. Bankrupt and sold off.
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AKA cashed out and regrouped.
AKA cashed out and regrouped.
No, they are gone.
Remington ammunition is now Federal.
RemArms is the new firearms division sold to a small time gun maker.
Barnes went to Sierra.
Marlin went to Ruger.
So on and so forth.
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But back in the 90s Colt pretty much wrote the Clinton Assault Weapon ban. Prior to it's passage they voluntarily removed bayo lugs and collapsible stocks from their rifles because those were "military features", probably one of the single biggest betrayals in modern firearms history. Are we all gonna shitcan our Colts? Stop buying Colts?
Correct. I would not buy a Colt for this reason.
No, they are gone.
Remington ammunition is now Federal.
RemArms is the new firearms division sold to a small time gun maker.
Barnes went to Sierra.
Marlin went to Ruger.
So on and so forth.
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Do you really think I don't remember all that?
Do you know why large groups file bankruptcy? It's so they can cash out without leaving anything on the plate. It's a business strategy.
But that really doesn't matter, there is some new iteration of FG, different name, different people, same BS.
Correct. I would not buy a Colt for this reason.
And I can understand that. But I doubt anyone here is getting rid of their 6920s because of what Colt did in the 90s.
Do you really think I don't remember all that?
Do you know why large groups file bankruptcy? It's so they can cash out without leaving anything on the plate. It's a business strategy.
But that really doesn't matter, there is some new iteration of FG, different name, different people, same BS.
Maybe so but not tied to those companies.
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Maybe so but not tied to those companies.
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You win. I give up.
And I can understand that. But I doubt anyone here is getting rid of their 6920s because of what Colt did in the 90s.
Also wonder if anyone is getting rid of any S&W, Benchmade or Surefire products?
And I can understand that. But I doubt anyone here is getting rid of their 6920s because of what Colt did in the 90s.
I did.
When did people start getting the idea that just if I exchange my labor for a check, that gives them full control of my life outside those duties?
Boom...end thread
When did people start getting the idea that just if I exchange my labor for a check, that gives them full control of my life outside those duties?
When Marxists started to consolidate power, libertarians got more vocal and employers got woke.
You win. I give up.
I’m not sure what your point is.
You talk about FG as if they are still operating. I remind you they are not and point out who purchased those brands. You get butt hurt and tell me you know that. You say other groups with other people have the same practices. None of which had to do with Hornady or the former FG brands today. For ****s sake.
We all know there are assholes in the world. This thread is about avoiding making them richer.
In other news, how does selling 6920s today punish the asshole in charge of Colt 30 years ago? Yes, let’s punish CZ! That’ll fix it!
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I’m not picketing in the streets but I’m far from sad when a putz executive or company craps then steps right in it.
I didn’t sell my Benchmade when their snafu happened, but I do look down at my pocket and I’m sure glad Hogue, Spyderco, and myself are benefiting from the market void for higher quality knifes at a better value.
The other ammo guys are listening.
I’m not sure what your point is.
You talk about FG as if they are still operating. I remind you they are not and point out who purchased those brands. You get butt hurt and tell me you know that. You say other groups with other people have the same practices. None of which had to do with Hornady or the former FG brands today. For ****s sake.
We all know there are assholes in the world. This thread is about avoiding making them richer.
I'll try it one more time. FG is an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. That they no longer are anything is irrelevant. There are dozens of "exactly the same" kind of companies right now. My point is there are many things far worse than Hornady in the firearms community.
That is my only point.
In other news, how does selling 6920s today punish the asshole in charge of Colt 30 years ago? Yes, let’s punish CZ! That’ll fix it!
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Amazingly you are very close to what I mean. Getting rid of your 6920s or refusing to buy Colt rifles does NOTHING to punish Colt 30 years ago. But people will still do it.
Lots of people like to get caught up in the little things, things that don't matter.
Not saying I agree with Hornady policy or that I think the guy isn't a lying jackas...he seems to be. But if everyone bought 1,000 rounds of Hornady ammunition, that would be more important in the big picture than refusing to buy Hornady. We kind of shoot ourselves in the foot when we do the work of the left and take down the NRA ourselves, take down a major ammunition manufacturer ourselves.
This isn't a case of Zumbo where the person really doesn't matter. Hornady is a supplier of ammunition. Doesn't mean they are exempt, but we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Maybe for the good of Hornady, Steve should step down and stop stepping on his own dick. But I don't think that will happen, he is probably just as unreasonable as everyone else. Everyone can of course decide how they spend their dollars and vote accordingly, I just sorta feel like the guys who got tricked into rounding up the jews so the SS didn't have to do it themselves.
I'll try it one more time. FG is an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about. That they no longer are anything is irrelevant. There are dozens of "exactly the same" kind of companies right now. My point is there are many things far worse than Hornady in the firearms community.
That is my only point.
Amazingly you are very close to what I mean. Getting rid of your 6920s or refusing to buy Colt rifles does NOTHING to punish Colt 30 years ago. But people will still do it.
Lots of people like to get caught up in the little things, things that don't matter.
Not saying I agree with Hornady policy or that I think the guy isn't a lying jackas...he seems to be. But if everyone bought 1,000 rounds of Hornady ammunition, that would be more important in the big picture than refusing to buy Hornady. We kind of shoot ourselves in the foot when we do the work of the left and take down the NRA ourselves, take down a major ammunition manufacturer ourselves.
This isn't a case of Zumbo where the person really doesn't matter. Hornady is a supplier of ammunition. Doesn't mean they are exempt, but we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Maybe for the good of Hornady, Steve should step down and stop stepping on his own dick. But I don't think that will happen, he is probably just as unreasonable as everyone else. Everyone can of course decide how they spend their dollars and vote accordingly, I just sorta feel like the guys who got tricked into rounding up the jews so the SS didn't have to do it themselves.
S&W of years ago got punished for their actions, went under, and became nicer to their primary customers.
Colt had to start sucking up to private citizens for awhile after they lost some .gov contracts.
Ruger was heavily fueled by Fudds, but Bill is long dead and spinning in his grave over what they now produce.
Not exactly the same(tea being a luxury instead of a staple), but private business was involved and viewed negatively.
https://youtu.be/7MhcjP6cCJU
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