View Full Version : Why Is It So Hard To Understand I Don't Do Transactions On My Phone...?
So I was on the phone with my more than a few companies today trying to straighten out billing options. Seems my bank protected me from making purchases of ammo and security locked my credit card and after finally fixing that I was trying reorder my ammo.
And I swear to GOD, without fail...when I finally get a person on the phone they inform me that I can go to their website and simply make the purchase. Of course the fact that I'm on the phone seems to be lost on them and it usually means I'm away from my desk and computer. And when I inform them of that fact every single person told me that I can visit their website on my phone and place the order.
Now I know I can do that, but I don't buy ANYTHING on my phone because I don't do any kind of transactions on my phone. That is why I called a PERSON to resubmit the order.
Obviously I'm some old as dust dinosaur who doesn't use his phone as a computer and doesn't trust the security of my phone to conduct financial transactions. And obviously I'm the last person on the planet still making purchases this way.
Swear to GOD, if one more person tells me I can visit their website on my phone and place the order I'm gonna inquire how I can pay by personal check. I mean damn, maybe put down your donut and just help me do the simple thing I'm trying to do.
I don’t do any transactions through web browsers on my mobile devices. Apps yes.
Anything that has to go through a browser waits until I get to my desktop.
Steyr,
You and I are the only people that don't buy stuff with the cell phone. People laugh at me.
I can assure you both that you're not alone. I'm actually amazed at the number of people who do use their phone as a computer to make online purchases. I can't tell you the number of times I've asked grown men why they are using their phone to view products on a website and make purchases.
I use my phone to make purchases. I use a real credit card not a debit card, not bank EFT, etc...
If somebody steals my CC info, the **** do I care?
Dear MasterCard...somebody stole my shit... "oh we real sorry bout that, you arent liable for anything, your new card is on the way"...
If I dont use cash I only use a real CC to make purchases anymore also. My debit card gets used to get cash at a single ATM so if there is any funny business with that card, I can say "oh look, I only use it to get cash at one ATM, that purchase wasnt me"...
I don't get the big deal between phone and PC as far as security goes. Neither are that secure.
Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
So I was on the phone with my more than a few companies today trying to straighten out billing options. Seems my bank protected me from making purchases of ammo and security locked my credit card and after finally fixing that I was trying reorder my ammo.
And I swear to GOD, without fail...when I finally get a person on the phone they inform me that I can go to their website and simply make the purchase. Of course the fact that I'm on the phone seems to be lost on them and it usually means I'm away from my desk and computer. And when I inform them of that fact every single person told me that I can visit their website on my phone and place the order.
Now I know I can do that, but I don't buy ANYTHING on my phone because I don't do any kind of transactions on my phone. That is why I called a PERSON to resubmit the order.
Obviously I'm some old as dust dinosaur who doesn't use his phone as a computer and doesn't trust the security of my phone to conduct financial transactions. And obviously I'm the last person on the planet still making purchases this way.
Swear to GOD, if one more person tells me I can visit their website on my phone and place the order I'm gonna inquire how I can pay by personal check. I mean damn, maybe put down your donut and just help me do the simple thing I'm trying to do.
What kind of phone? Chances are your phone is actually safer than your desktop.
It isn’t the device that poses the risk, it is the website to which you conduct the transaction that poses 95+% of the risk.
I do this for a living.
Regardless, continue to do as you feel comfortable doing.
My first online order was probably 2000 give or take a year with SKD Tactical because they had no phone # on their site. I emailed them and asked for a phone #(not sure if I mentioned not comfortable with putting the CC online or they guessed it correctly) and got the response back that no they did not, but even they did they would be plugging the # in to the same computer system the online ordering process was hooked to.
Diamondback
11-01-21, 22:21
Steyr,
You and I are the only people that don't buy stuff with the cell phone. People laugh at me.
I don't either. Tablet MAYBE in extremis, but I prefer waiting til I'm back at my laptop.
What kind of phone? Chances are your phone is actually safer than your desktop.
Details?
crosseyedshooter
11-01-21, 23:07
I seem to be the exact opposite and purposely avoid verbally ordering things over the phone. There’re so many chances for mistakes; wrong part number, wrong quantity, wrong address, wrong name, wrong credit card info, etc. I much prefer to be able to see my order on a web site and check for errors before submitting.
...Swear to GOD, if one more person tells me I can visit their website on my phone and place the order I'm gonna inquire how I can pay by personal check. I mean damn, maybe put down your donut and just help me do the simple thing I'm trying to do.
Steyr,
You and I are the only people that don't buy stuff with the cell phone. People laugh at me.
You two aren't the only ones. I'm the same way. Nothing by iPhone. Nothing by iPad. Only use my MacBook on a secure server (or so I hope) and only when I have no other choice. I prefer brick and mortar to actually go and see/handle/try on whatever I want to buy.
And I hate shopping.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-01-21, 23:21
Secure from whom?
I'd think that over the cell network is more 'secure' than Wifi through my cable provider from prying private entities. I'd think it would take a govt to hack you cell connection- and they can get whatever they want anyway.
Steyr,
You and I are the only people that don't buy stuff with the cell phone. People laugh at me.
What kills me is I'm on the phone WITH A PERSON and they want me to go to their website on my phone.
I use my phone for talk and texts, sometimes to check weather and on rare occasions to look something up. I don't even search porn on my phone.
Secure from whom?
I'd think that over the cell network is more 'secure' than Wifi through my cable provider from prying private entities. I'd think it would take a govt to hack you cell connection- and they can get whatever they want anyway.
That's a good question, and I don't have a good answer. I'm not tech savvy (although I'm not tech stupid either). I guess I figured a portable device is more subjected to outside attack than a device only used at home on my private wifi, but you make a valid point.
I realize if someone wants in they will get in, but I never felt my phone or any portable devise was truly secure. In all likelihood it probably doesn't matter. Nothing is secure anymore.
I seem to be the exact opposite and purposely avoid verbally ordering things over the phone. There’re so many chances for mistakes; wrong part number, wrong quantity, wrong address, wrong name, wrong credit card info, etc. I much prefer to be able to see my order on a web site and check for errors before submitting.
In this instance, all my information was there and correct. I just needed a person to resubmit the order without depending on the website to do it correctly. The order was originally submitted on my desktop and I needed a person to help sort out what did go through ok vs. what needed to be resubmitted.
That was the other annoying thing about being directed to visit their website.
crosseyedshooter
11-02-21, 00:18
In this instance, all my information was there and correct. I just needed a person to resubmit the order without depending on the website to do it correctly. The order was originally submitted on my desktop and I needed a person to help sort out what did go through ok vs. what needed to be resubmitted.
That was the other annoying thing about being directed to visit their website.
Ok, I'm with you, now! That's piss poor customer service if they can't fix an existing order over the phone.
Details?
Most phones don't run the Microsoft operating system that is very prevalent on desktops and servers around the world. Not all, but a high percentage of exploits and exploit kits target windows vulnerabilities.
Microsoft is getting better and no-one is perfect, so I'm not saying Microsoft is total garbage. Their success and weak coding practices have both made them a high value target.
Why would a bad guy target an operating system that has only 2% market share and thus limit the targets of opportunity? It is a waste of resource, time and money.
For many of the same reasons, why would a bad guy target an individual phone? They won't. They'll target the website where everyone is transacting business in hopes of getting CC or credential information to sell.
Targeting your individual phone is a waste of time and money and they're much smarter than you may think.
Averageman
11-02-21, 07:32
In this instance, all my information was there and correct. I just needed a person to resubmit the order without depending on the website to do it correctly. The order was originally submitted on my desktop and I needed a person to help sort out what did go through ok vs. what needed to be resubmitted.
That was the other annoying thing about being directed to visit their website.
That seems stupid, it's almost as if they care so little that they can't be bothered.
My business no longer takes cards over the phone. We got burned on a couple frauds where people claimed their card was stolen and we were out the money. In person or online is the only way we do it. Both those methods have never burned us despite numerous tries by people claiming fraud.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-02-21, 10:23
For Halloween I went and picked up the pizza since delivery is normally slow and on a night like that forget it. Some idiot was calling in an order. WTF. You chances of getting anything close to what you want is about zero. Get the fricken app and order the pizza so that at least there isn't any noise between what you want and what you ordered. Plus, the cashier spent about 5 min with the person on the phone, with 5 people waiting to get orders- after I heard my name called out. Labor ain't cheap, and it is getting more expensive. That link between what you want and entering the order is a horrible use of resources and faught with error. I didn't like the screen ordering at McDs, but I prefer it now- or the app. The average retail/food worker is brain-dead pot head who hates their job. At least get them trained to fix the milkshake machine and stop wasting time taking orders.
My ignorance is showing here, but when you download an app for a business (to make it easier, faster and apparently safer to use a CC), aren't you also required to agree to their terms, which usually include giving them access to just about everything?
I buy stuff from vender sites on my phone. I have a dedicated CC for such activity and I use a VPN. Honestly, the only time i’ve had an issue was with Brownells, twice. Although to be fair I was accessing their site through my desktop. Kinda sucks because I’ve not bought from them since the second incident.
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Steyr,
You and I are the only people that don't buy stuff with the cell phone. People laugh at me.
WRONG
My ignorance is showing here, but when you download an app for a business (to make it easier, faster and apparently safer to use a CC), aren't you also required to agree to their terms, which usually include giving them access to just about everything?To certain things yes. Depends on the app.
The one thing I don't do is unnecessary apps. I have like 7 on my phone and that's it. A few are work related, Tapatalk, messenger app and YouTube. But I am weird in that I don't typically deal with corporate businesses. Or when I do it's stuff that can't be avoided. There's no mom and pop stores making cell phones, or refrigerators, jeans, etc.... However, everything else is local. The "pizza" order is a local place a mile away. Ive never had a wrong order from anywhere that I can remember. That being said I don't order food that often. A few times a year and it's not usually large. Hard to screw up a dozen wings.
With a few exceptions I think the best way to describe my overall tech outlook is I'm stuck somewhere around the introduction of smart phones.
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Diamondback
11-02-21, 15:19
Frankly, Doordash has a higher FUBAR rate than when I call my neighborhood pizza place on the phone.
Call me naïve but I am not sure a laptop on WiFi is safer than a cell phone on the same network.
Also, I have had fraudulent charges on my Debit card and my bank reversed it with a phone call lasting no more than a couple minutes. They did their investigation and what not but the money was back in my account before I hung up the phone so I am not sure it's any better than a CC. Im sure business spending is much higher, but just as an FYI, depending on your bank, fraud on a Debit card isn't the end of the world.
I remember by debit card number by heart, nothing is saved in either my computer or phone but I don't shy away from ordering using my phone if I need to.
As for the business asking you to order online, Im wondering if it's their way of covering their ass in case the order is placed wrong on their end. If you do it online it takes their human factor out of it.
Steyr,
You and I are the only people that don't buy stuff with the cell phone. People laugh at me.
Raises hand. The worst are medical billing departments. Actually had one the other day claim it was a HIPPA violation for her to tell me how much was owed on the account I was trying to pay in full! :rolleyes:
Call me naïve but I am not sure a laptop on WiFi is safer than a cell phone on the same network.
I don't really trust wifi that much either. I've seen people jump on a wifi connection without much trouble where they are looking at what the owner of the wifi connection is looking at. And these people were NSA folks or anything close.
Not sure about phones today, but not very long ago it wasn't hard to exploit the hell out of them. In 2014 when the winter olympics were held in Sochi, the minute everyone turned their phones on, their bank accounts got drained. It wasn't THAT long ago.
I know the infrastructure in this country isn't quite as open and vulnerable, but it's still essentially a phone.
Hemoglobin
11-02-21, 18:53
So, I work in the legal field now. Have a friend that basically is in charge of the medical records of a larger medical/hospital group here in the south east. Odds are your legal documents travel on a pretty run of the mill wifi/network/cloud system. That cloud system is probably maintained by amazon. So are the medical records. In fact I have another friend who does nothing but store the long term medical files, off site. Same thing. Remote access managed by amazon. Really. No one is targeting your computer or phone. They are going after large companies saving credit card files and stuff. There's probably some pretty well off people here, but robo calling elderly people and claiming they are going to be put in jail for tax evasion is more lucrative than spending all day trying to find someone on here with a Amex Black card on a cell network.
My parents click every retarded phishing email that gets sent to them. That's probably a solid #2 behind larger hacks.
I have an I phone that I think is safer than a desk top.
That and I have a realistic expectation my credit card company is going to suck it up if my shit gets stolen from something like buying on my phone.
Get with the times old man, you’re just shooting your self in the foot on this one.
Edit to add: don’t save your cc number on a site. That is how it gets stolen. Off of someone else’s database.
Get with the times old man, you’re just shooting your self in the foot on this one.
Ok millennial.
Diamondback
11-02-21, 21:04
Here's the thing...
Whenever I use online ordering, the local pizza place always misses the "No Mushrooms" on my pizza. When I call and establish that personal connection, they always get it right, perhaps because it's not just words on a screen but a voice known to them personally from over the counter.
Here's the thing...
Whenever I use online ordering, the local pizza place always misses the "No Mushrooms" on my pizza. When I call and establish that personal connection, they always get it right, perhaps because it's not just words on a screen but a voice known to them personally from over the counter.
Plus you can always mention "And again no mushrooms" because you guys missed that the last time.
Just a data point: it's far more likely that the systems of the vendor you are ordering from are contaminated than risk from someone snooping on your phone.
That if you use reasonable care on your phone app hygene, don't download questionable apps and keep the os up to date.
I am also not a fan of giving credit card info over the phone as they largely have to write it down, along with you security code. (Which is often not needed for online transactions if the shipping name and address match the card's)
*Every* pc and phone OS has risks, and much be patched up. I have to send "update now" notices to iphone/mac family members as they are often complacent they are immune. Which they are not.
Much of the current risk comes from browser day 1 vulnerabilities. Which hits most os's and phones as they all largely use the same core browser code. Yes, even safari.
Even if you do an ecommerce (not a pizza) order via phone, the guy on ghe phone has to enter it in on a browser most likely. I trust my browser more than theirs, which leads back to my original point.
Just a data point: it's far more likely that the systems of the vendor you are ordering from are contaminated than risk from someone snooping on your phone.
That if you use reasonable care on your phone app hygene, don't download questionable apps and keep the os up to date.
I am also not a fan of giving credit card info over the phone as they largely have to write it down, along with you security code. (Which is often not needed for online transactions if the shipping name and address match the card's)
*Every* pc and phone OS has risks, and much be patched up. I have to send "update now" notices to iphone/mac family members as they are often complacent they are immune. Which they are not.
Much of the current risk comes from browser day 1 vulnerabilities. Which hits most os's and phones as they all largely use the same core browser code. Yes, even safari.
Even if you do an ecommerce (not a pizza) order via phone, the guy on ghe phone has to enter it in on a browser most likely. I trust my browser more than theirs, which leads back to my original point.
You bring up a good point. Giving your CC number over the phone means you are giving it directly to a person who may have nefarious intentions with that CC number.
You bring up a good point. Giving your CC number over the phone means you are giving it directly to a person who may have nefarious intentions with that CC number.Or wrote it down on a pad that someone else may get. Or at best entered it into a browser which may be insecure or infected. I trust end to end encryption more than I trust worker bees on the end of the phone line.
This in the US. In ex-soviet Union countries or CCP you have to assume there is man in the middle snooping. Same in Middle Eastern companies, though they could not be bothered to practice credit card fraud. They have a better fraud scheme going selling us oil.
I dont understand why i wouldnt use a phone, its fast and easy. I use a cc to reduce liability.
I dont understand why i wouldnt use a phone, its fast and easy. I use a cc to reduce liability.
Honestly, for me, it's hard enough to read all the fine print and details on a large computer monitor much less on a phone.
Hey "old man Steyr", stay the way you are, I'm with ya.
What kills me is I'm on the phone WITH A PERSON and they want me to go to their website on my phone.
I use my phone for talk and texts, sometimes to check weather and on rare occasions to look something up. I don't even search porn on my phone.
Either you need to get a real phone or get someone to train you on how to use one. Modern phones are optimized for porn and internet transactions while simultaneously talking to someone.
Either you need to get a real phone or get someone to train you on how to use one. Modern phones are optimized for porn and internet transactions while simultaneously talking to someone.
Or I can just use mine for talk and text.
So now if you don't choose to use your phone to do commerce, you're not smart or an idiot. :)
Just tonight, I walked up to the order desk at a restaurant and they only take orders by these touch screen devices. So I ordered and when it came to the payment, it gave me the option to pay by plastic or cash. What did I choose? cash of course, to go along with my old man motif. It blew the minds of those 20 something workers. The fear and hate from their eyes ! I love it.
So now if you don't choose to use your phone to do commerce, you're not smart or an idiot. :)
Just tonight, I walked up to the order desk at a restaurant and they only take orders by these touch screen devices. So I ordered and when it came to the payment, it gave me the option to pay by plastic or cash. What did I choose? cash of course, to go along with my old man motif. It blew the minds of those 20 something workers. The fear and hate from their eyes ! I love it.
So true story, not kidding.
I was in a Taco Johns last winter when the cash registers went offline. This meant they couldn't enter orders, accept payment or things like that. People in line began to leave. I looked back in the kitchen and noticed everything there was working.
So after finding a clever twenty something who retrieved a couple order pads from the office and a bag of money for providing singles and change to the registers we actually hand wrote my order, calculated cost (including tax), made payment and received change and then the ticket was hung above the work station and they actually made food which I then sat down and ate.
I told them to cover their bases, to request that customers sign the tickets so management knows they were legit orders and not internal theft. And while I sat their, I watched the employees explain the new magical process to potential customers. They even extended credit to those with no cash who were willing to write down their name and phone number if they promised to make payment the next day.
It was sorta like watching cavemen discover fire.
The next day the owner actually thanked me because I helped their employees figure out how to keep helping their customers. One industrious employee even figured out that if they put a sign on the drive through board that said "Computers out, taking orders at the counter" they could even help most of the people in the drive thru.
Love that story. Maybe there's hope.
Love that story. Maybe there's hope.
Probably requires a small town, but yeah.
Five_Point_Five_Six
11-05-21, 08:26
After reading this thread I envision several of you sitting at your dining room table filling out the order form from the back of the Brownells paper catalog while drinking Folgers and yelling at your wife to bring you your checkbook.
The same measures that you can take to secure your desktop or laptop can be taken on your mobile phone as long as it's not from the George W Bush era. When your info is stolen, it's usually on their end, not yours.
When your info is stolen, it's usually on their end, not yours.
Yep! Wasn't AimSurplus giving out free virus protection for a year because they got hacked and lost a lot of customer data?!?
Maybe it wasn't Aim but definitely one of the online firearms/accessories retailers.
I have a letter in my kitchen at this very moment from a company offering me free virus protection because THEIR servers got hacked and THEY lost costumer info. I have to look again but I think it's from AT&T, which I haven't had in 20 years (pre smart phone)....but they still had my data stored....and lost
If you're afraid of having your data compromised don't buy from any store you have to place an order with! Only brick and mortar.... and cash.
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Five_Point_Five_Six
11-05-21, 09:08
A lot of the stress this causes some people can be mitigated by using a credit card instead of a debit card. That way they're not getting your money and draining your account. When I've had my card info stolen, I simply call the credit card company, tell them what's up, and they get back to me in a few weeks and tell me it's all sorted out. You can also get email or text alerts anytime your card is used.
I actually don't blame companies for trying to steer people away from ordering over the phone. Ordering is a simple process unless you choose to complicate it. It frees up the person answering the phone for customer service issues that can't be resolved via email. We're a couple months shy of 2022, ecommerce has been taking place for more than two decades. Most of the concerns in this thread are mostly unfounded and come from a place of misunderstanding how the internet and devices work. It reminds me of the people that were mad when their tv antenna was no longer going to work even though they were gonna be given the digital device so they could still watch the local news and Gunsmoke reruns.
Between my first post in this thread this morning and this one, I placed an order from Brownells on my phone while waiting to put my daughter on the school bus. I didn't need to wait until a certain hour to make sure someone was in the office, or wait on hold for the next available person. I just logged in, placed the order with my credit card, and it was done.
I've been hit by fraudulent Amazon charges more than any other vendor.
After reading this thread I envision several of you sitting at your dining room table filling out the order form from the back of the Brownells paper catalog while drinking Folgers and yelling at your wife to bring you your checkbook.
The same measures that you can take to secure your desktop or laptop can be taken on your mobile phone as long as it's not from the George W Bush era. When your info is stolen, it's usually on their end, not yours.
You forgot a lot of stuff. You have to put your order form in a typewriter so it can be read. Then you have to drive to 7-11 so you can make a photocopy of your order and check. You have to put your clipped coupons from the promotional flyer that was mailed to you in the envelope. Always remember to check off the "free gift" option for orders over $51. And then you have to remember to scotch tape the envelope shut so the mail can't get hacked. And if you are mailing change, always tape the coins to an index card so they don't rattle.
I didn't until a couple years ago.
Credit cards have been hacked so many times and it's only a very minor inconvenience.
That was before I used my phone for purchases. So it doesn't make any difference.
Had a person with a very similar name to mine take money right out of my wifes account and they did it at a brick & mortar bank.
None of it has actually cost me any money. Just some time and frustration.
That's the way it is. Yea, it stinks. Yell at the clouds all you want.
You forgot a lot of stuff. You have to put your order form in a typewriter so it can be read. Then you have to drive to 7-11 so you can make a photocopy of your order and check. You have to put your clipped coupons from the promotional flyer that was mailed to you in the envelope. Always remember to check off the "free gift" option for orders over $51. And then you have to remember to scotch tape the envelope shut so the mail can't get hacked. And if you are mailing change, always tape the coins to an index card so they don't rattle.Lol!!! Are you also sending that certified? Signature required?
I learned my lesson with debit cards. I got hit twice. Not me but wherever I used it. Both times I called my bank and within 5 min they reimbursed my account, cancelled the card and sent a new one. And this was debit.
So I just don't use debit anymore. However, IF you're a big spender or have a lot of monthly payments it may be in your best interest to use the credit card and not cash. Depends on your lifestyle though. I have an acquaintance who puts EVERYTHING on his credit card and pays it all off at the end of the month. His logic is....it's the same money but I make one payment. He has his mortgage, which isn't small, both his new cars, everything the wife buys, absolutely everything goes on the card. It goes to zero at the end of the month so there's no percentage and he gets points that he uses for vacations. He's gotten free vacations, free flights, free rentals....etc... all for just using the card. Now, if you don't go anywhere or can't pay off EVERYTHING at one time every month then this isn't for you.
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Five_Point_Five_Six
11-05-21, 17:51
You forgot a lot of stuff. You have to put your order form in a typewriter so it can be read. Then you have to drive to 7-11 so you can make a photocopy of your order and check. You have to put your clipped coupons from the promotional flyer that was mailed to you in the envelope. Always remember to check off the "free gift" option for orders over $51. And then you have to remember to scotch tape the envelope shut so the mail can't get hacked. And if you are mailing change, always tape the coins to an index card so they don't rattle.
Well in my defense I haven't used a paper order form out of a catalog since the 90s when I was a teenager buying stuff from Cabelas that the local sporting goods store didn't carry.
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