Just plain WHACKED Ruger 10-22 quick-change idea... talk me off a ledge?

[Diamondback]

In light of the Thompson/Center Contender and AR both being able to go from Pistol to Rifle and back, and Ruger's 10/22 rifle and Charger pistol largely being built around the same "core" receiver and parts-kit, Midwest's takedown chassis with AR stock got a harebrained idea percolating in the back of my head...

The basic idea: Exploit MI's folding-stock tube for the Sig MCX and KNS's AR to 1913 buffer-tube adapter for a quick-change backend. Interchangeable SBA3 brace and standard telestock allow "short pistol, "braced pistol" and "rifle configurations with transition between them in seconds. Takedown chassis and interchangeable front-ends similarly allow change between short pistol, long pistol and rifle in seconds.

Complicating factor: I'm left handed, but prefer to work charging handles and "non-firing" controls with my right hand. This saves a little trouble, as almost every lefty CH/oprod assembly I've seen doesn't fit with integral-rail receivers like the one from Brownells. I don't really like the light weight of the Ruger BX-Trigger, but as far as I can see it looks like the "preassembled" with the best chance of fitting the Midwest chassis.

Partslist so far...
Receiver: Brownells BRN22 w/rail
Bolt Ass'y: Ruger B-10C factory (BRN22 doesn't take many aftermarkets)
Bolt Stop Pin: Ruger B-46
Receiver Crosspins: Tandemkross
Triggerguard Ass'y: Ruger BX-Trigger (don't like the light pull but Midwest chassis doesn't fit most aftermarkets)
Charging Handle/Oprod Assy: Undecided... suggestions? As noted above Tandemkross doesn't work with integral-rail receivers

Takedown Chassis: Midwest 1022TDC
Stock adapter: KNS AR-1913 adapter with MI STAP-SF folding AR-style tube
Stock/Brace: SBA3 for pistol, undecided for rifle
Grip: FAB AGF-43S folder

Handguards: Midwest RC4875 for short pistol, 10228H long pistol, 102213H rifle
Barrels: short pistol Ruger factory 22 Charger or similar (~5.5-6" target length), 10-12" long pistol ?, rifle TacSol 1022TDM; Pike Arms takedown hardware kits for barrels as needed
Sights: AR-style BUIS for long pistol and rifle, unsure for short pistol

In a nutshell, if this were offered as a Convertible Contender-style kit when you opened the case you'd see:

Unmounted rifle stock
Pistol brace on folding buffer tube
"Core" assembly (grip, chassis, receiver, FCG)
Three barrel/forend assemblies - ~6" pistol, ~10" pistol, >16" rifle
magazine/room for magazines
space for optics/scopes





Am I all wet either technically or legally, or does this have some grain of potential as a functional Title I concept? If so, what would Stick Nation suggest for fleshing it out and refining it? I already checked out Kidd barrels, and they seemed most emphatic about wanting nothing to do with the Takedown family.

[Stickman]

Check out the below from CMT with a 10/22 project they have worked up...

https://www.cmttac.com/ODIN%20CHASSIS/RUGER-CHASSIS

[Diamondback]

Interesting, Stick. Main reason I started with Midwest was that they've shone on Service Before Sale before and even given me answers that put them out of the running on projects because Andy believed in "tell people what they NEED to hear and let things work out as they will," so I kinda feel like I owe them a "prime contractor or major subcontractor" spot on a project someday and this looked like a chance to tick that off in case the GAU-5's turn on the project list doesn't come up anytime soon. (As an aside, I saw their takedown chassis while I was checking on ASDW uppers...)

[Stickman]

Interesting, Stick. Main reason I started with Midwest was that they've shone on Service Before Sale before and even given me answers that put them out of the running on projects because Andy believed in "tell people what they NEED to hear and let things work out as they will," so I kinda feel like I owe them a "prime contractor or major subcontractor" spot on a project someday and this looked like a chance to tick that off in case the GAU-5's turn on the project list doesn't come up anytime soon. (As an aside, I saw their takedown chassis while I was checking on ASDW uppers...)

MI is a great company, and they are under rated.

[Diamondback]

So, a little refinement... as of now the plan is build a no-brace 10" Charger first, then the brace, then work out the 6" barrel assembly later, then worry about the rifle barrel later and stock last. Change to Ruger OEM chassis is largely motivated by less need for surgery hacking down my intended grip.

Chassis - Ruger OEM via S&P Outfitters 84.99 https://sapoutfitters.com/product/oem-ruger-black-synthetic-stock-for-22-charger-td-pistol/
Triggerpack - Ruger OEM B-2C 49.99 https://sapoutfitters.com/product/ruger-1022-complete-trigger-group-extended-mag-release-new-oem/
Receiver - Brownells BRN22, exact details still being determined ~158.99 https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/receiver-parts/receivers/rifle-receivers/brn-22-takedown-stripped-receiver-for-ruger-10-22--prod124104.aspx
Bolt - Ruger OEM B-6C
Oprod/charging handle - undetermined
Receiver crosspins - Tandemkross TK18N0316SSL1 (set of 2)
Bolt stop pin - Tuffer Buffer
1913 brace adapter - Copper Custom CCA1913 54.95 https://coppercustom.com/accessories/pistol-brace-adapters/copper-custom-armament-ruger-charger-1913-brace-adapter-cca1913
Grip - spares-bin A2 at first, later FAB Defense AGF-43S folder
Takedown 10" barrel assembly - undetermined
Handguard - Midwest MI-1022-8H
Sights - undetermined AR BUIS on ARMS's longest #36 Swan Sleeve
Optic - undetermined, present thinking is "it's a .22 plinker with no tactical role so why bother with light/laser/optic"

At this point I'm thinking factory-style blade sights on the 6" barrel with an open-top AGP short handguard, but on the longer handguards use an ARMS Swan Sleeve mounted on the handguard via top rails and standard AR folding sights.

Brace phase:
Tube and folder - Midwest MI-STAP-SF https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/Side-Folder-With-MI-Stock-Tube-p/mi-stap-sf.htm
Wondering if I can rig it with an ADM quick-detach lever in place of that obnoxious hex-screw, something like https://www.admmfg.com/std-lever
Brace - SBA3 with length-of-pull limiters
Side gripe... wish MI made threaded storage tubes so I could set one up with limiters for brace and one without for stock without a whole second assembly. Then again, while two tubes with perma-mounted furniture adds weight and expense it might simplify storage...

[Diamondback]

Well, in light of the NoDak Spud acquisition by JJE I just placed the front-sight order; Harlan seemed to appreciate my efforts to get the sale credited to the team who'd helped me with Service Before Sale rather than anyone else. (He did point out that they're going to be under H&R not PSA, though.)

Revised plan... 6" or 10," either could go first depending on parts availability but right now looking like the 6" since it'll only need the short OEM Ruger handguard hogged out to .920 rather than buying a separate part. ARMS didn't think the Swan would work as an extended sight rail, so we're dealing with the challenges of synching three NDS23 front sights to one BRN26 rear. (Harlan at NDS and I spitballed the solution of once elevation is dialed in, apply color-coded witness marks on the rear sight with matching ID markers on the fronts. EP Armory has a complete 10" Charger build-kit less receiver that's almost perfect except not being Takedown, and I've already reached out to them to ask if a TD version might be in the cards.

Core components - chassis/action

Chassis - Ruger Charger Takedown OEM
Receiver - Brownells BRN22 flattop with BRN26 (NoDak Spud) rail/rear sight
Bolt - Ruger OEM
Charging Handle - Ruger OEM
Crosspins - Tandemkross and Tuffer Buffer
FCG - 5# Ruger factory takeoff from a buddy (I get uneasy at anything less than 4#)
Brace adapter - Farrowtech 1913 (a local 10/22 builder suggests that black anodized aluminum may not be cheek friendly in hot/cold conditions and the inevitable chipping may create a glare hazard for my odd eyes, and FT's plastic end-runs both)
Grip - FAB Defense AGF-43S folder as used on USAF GAU-5 ASDW


6" barrel assembly

Barrel - Acculite 6" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
Takedown hardware - Acculite
Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
Handguard - Ruger OEM included with chassis, hogged out as needed


10" barrel assembly

Barrel - Acculite 10" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
Takedown hardware - Acculite
Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
Handguard - Midwest MI-1022-8H 8" M-Lok


16" barrel assembly

Barrel - Acculite 16.5" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
Takedown hardware - Acculite
Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
Handguard - Midwest MI-1022-13H 13" M-Lok
Alternate option - Ruger 90565 full TD barrel assembly, remove rear sight and add MI-1022-13H


Pistol brace assembly

Brace mount - Midwest MI-STAP-SF sidefold storage tube with SB Tactical LOPL length-of-pull limiters (note: right now the STAP requires an Allen wrench to install/remove, but MI is working on a QD lever or thumbscrew hardware upgrade kit and I'm planning on it here)
Brace - SB Tactical SBA3


Rifle stock assembly

Stock mount - Midwest MI-STAP-SF sidefold storage tube (yes, a second, no LOP limiters as the entire point here is "avoid fighting with small parts"--if ATF weren't going frootloops on pistol braces and imposing a 13.5" LOP upper limit I'd say "one tube just pop-n-swap")
Stock - AR telestock, exact model not yet determined


Overall accessories and special features

Mix of OEM 10-rd magazines between single, double- and triple-coupled
Maglula loader/unloader set, along with Caldwell rimfire Mag Charger
out-of-production Real Avid 10/22 Field Pack (field maintenance guide, micro toolset and cleaning kit)
Witness marks on rear sight for each barrel's zero, color coded to match markings on the rear of each front sight
Harbor Freight 18" hardside toolcase
Possibly add Bushnell TRS25 red-dot later; the entire point is something to learn iron sights on

[Stickman]

I love that you are still on this project!

[Diamondback]

I love that you are still on this project!

It's still only a design study... if things look borderline I can always drop in a second "core unit" to keep the pistol and rifle setups separated. Really, other than novelty and "full day's range kit in a briefcase" the only advantage I see this offering over more conventional Ruger builds is the ability to carry it discreetly even on public transit. Sorta like 007's briefcase AR7 in From Russia With Love, but without the gold coins and boobytraps, and a more "multirole trainer" capability.

You're gonna laugh at this... even though Jerry Miculek's kids literally got the last one in the world of the specific brushguard I need for it, I still maintain a Project File on a '93 Ford Explorer that I started compiling as a kid. (If you've seen Jerry's video rocking the SPAS-12 hunting Barney, you know.) Plus one for a Jeep that ended up spiked because nobody in their right mind buys a clothtop vehicle in an area infested with methheads and sundry other thieving vermin...

[Stickman]

It's still only a design study... if things look borderline I can always drop in a second "core unit" to keep the pistol and rifle setups separated. Really, other than novelty and "full day's range kit in a briefcase" the only advantage I see this offering over more conventional Ruger builds is the ability to carry it discreetly even on public transit. Sorta like 007's briefcase AR7 in From Russia With Love, but without the gold coins and boobytraps, and a more "multirole trainer" capability.

You're gonna laugh at this... even though Jerry Miculek's kids literally got the last one in the world of the specific brushguard I need for it, I still maintain a Project File on a '93 Ford Explorer that I started compiling as a kid. (If you've seen Jerry's video rocking the SPAS-12 hunting Barney, you know.) Plus one for a Jeep that ended up spiked because nobody in their right mind buys a clothtop vehicle in an area infested with methheads and sundry other thieving vermin...

Yup, if you live anywhere near the base it is crime city.

[Diamondback]

Yup, if you live anywhere near the base it is crime city.
Yeah, and the mountain foothills are getting that way too from understaffed LE agencies, overworked shifts and transplanted vagrants coming here for the free handouts and finding Seattle full so they spread outward from there.

Makes me wish I could come up with the bucks to buy the entire Lester townsite from BNSF, or some similar forgotten ghost-town away from the idiots, as a spot to fence off and build... or do we just not hear about stuff out there from the "Rule of Shoot-Shovel-STFU"?

[Stickman]

Yeah, and the mountain foothills are getting that way too from understaffed LE agencies, overworked shifts and transplanted vagrants coming here for the free handouts and finding Seattle full so they spread outward from there.

Makes me wish I could come up with the bucks to buy the entire Lester townsite from BNSF, or some similar forgotten ghost-town away from the idiots, as a spot to fence off and build... or do we just not hear about stuff out there from the "Rule of Shoot-Shovel-STFU"?

D19 used to be the choice place. Out in the foothills and the mountain and paradise....

[Diamondback]

Pieces and tools slowly starting to come together, as I wait for S&P to get more teardown receivers and chassis...

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=57342&d=1641977777

[Diamondback]

Better pic, I hope, with latest arrivals... looks like I'm gonna have to write off most of the case's standard foam.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655632728812683276/932451413445972038/20220116_174759.jpg

Lid organizer: Tandemkross Mag Toolkit, Real Avid Field Guide, Real Avid 10/22 Micro Tool.

Back: SBA3 brace, two Leapers MNT-RSQD403's for mounting brace/stock tubes, MTM ammo-and-tools case.

Front: Alangator Trimag coupler, Real Avid Bore Boss cleaner, FAB Defense PTK-M and VTS-M AFG and thumbrest, Pete's Pillars and Tandemkross FCG/receiver/boltstop pins, Ruger OEM oprod, NoDak Spud NDS-23 front and BRN-26 rear sights.

My thinking here is to stack the receiver/6" barrel and 16" barrel one-atop-other closest to the hinge, the two backends in front of that with the 10" barrel on top of them and optics between, then mags/ammo/tools across the front closest to the handle.

[202]

Sounds like a fun project!
I got a Ruger 10/22 charger a couple of days ago and bought the copper custom 1913 adapter, but have not decided on a brace yet.
I will be following your build. Have fun!

[Diamondback]

I could take the easy way out and just buy a factory 4924 or 4935, but by the time I was done the only OEM pieces left would be the chassis, triggerpack, receiver and bolt. (Besides, the more work someone else does for me the less growth opportunity that leaves me to build new skills for myself.) I'm looking at the Farrowtech brace adapter now because plastic is more cheek-friendly on hot or cold days.

Brace is going to be a bit Rube Goldberg--I went with the A3 body because I got a better price and it allowed me more room to work around it in the case, alternate was the A4. This is going onto a Midwest sidefold tube with storage compartment mounted on one of those Leapers QD optic risers, then I'm going to throw in SB's length-of-pull limiters to keep it below 13.5". (I fully expect to lose position 5 in addition to the normal #6; no biggie because I have short arms and usually use pistol brace and rifle stock alike as either an "elbow stabilizer" or just a rear-end counterweight anyway.)

[202]

Mine is a 4923 model. I’m not doing much to it, just a muzzle break, brace, and a red dot.
What you are doing is way more fun and I’m sure will come out way nicer.
Btw, are you building 3 chargers or a couple of chassis with interchangeable barrels?

[Diamondback]

Mine is a 4923 model. I’m not doing much to it, just a muzzle break, brace, and a red dot.
What you are doing is way more fun and I’m sure will come out way nicer.
Btw, are you building 3 chargers or a couple of chassis with interchangeable barrels?

One chassis, three interchangeable barrels, two interchangeable backends. Plan is have my pro smith mike the barrel collets as they come in and lathe them to "least common denominator."

Difficult decision: M4 Waffle or SOPMOD? I like the extra storage of the SOPMOD, but space and weight are at a premium in any Briefcase Kit build. Also, any suggestions on a plinker-toy scope?

[202]

One chassis, three interchangeable barrels, two interchangeable backends. Plan is have my pro smith mike the barrel collets as they come in and lathe them to "least common denominator."

Difficult decision: M4 Waffle or SOPMOD? I like the extra storage of the SOPMOD, but space and weight are at a premium in any Briefcase Kit build. Also, any suggestions on a plinker-toy scope?

Definitely a fun project!
My opinion is a red dot or a fixed low powered scope. I believe Leupold makes 2x and 4x scopes.

[Diamondback]

Definitely a fun project!
My opinion is a red dot or a fixed low powered scope. I believe Leupold makes 2x and 4x scopes.
My thinking is a Bushnell TRS25 with Arms Unlimited QD lever for "large pistol" mode, question is more fixed LP for rifle. I know BSA made some specialized for .22's, and I'm thinking an Aero cantilever dual-QD-lever mount.

[Diamondback]

So, this pic is from an eBay listing for the Midwest 8" handguard but other than the lack of iron sights and rear rail it's pretty much my "mental picture" for the 10" barrel setup.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NQEAAOSwkZhh262Y/s-l1600.jpg

Have a bid in on a Charger chassis that closes tomorrow to hopefully get things a little more un-stuck.

[Diamondback]

Quick update with the brace on... Based on current "13.5" max from brace end to trigger face" rule I had to block off two positions on the tube, this is longest legal setting based on estimated trigger position. Trigger pack and front end still to-do.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655632728812683276/949420082474393600/20220304_131316.jpg
Red section is part of the grip beavertail I need to Dremel off before I can tighten down the back-end screw holding the adapter-chassis-grip assembly together.

Based on this prototype setup, I'm thinking see if Midwest's planned QD STAP cuts enough length to allow Position 5, but stick with the "standard STAP on QD rider" to help keep the length in rifle mode over 26".

[pinzgauer]

Yep, it's just plain wacked! But I'm enjoying watching it come together.

Kindof a keltec vibe, albeit a higher quality 22lr one.

Go dawg go

[Diamondback]

Yep, it's just plain wacked! But I'm enjoying watching it come together.

Kindof a keltec vibe, albeit a higher quality 22lr one.

Go dawg go

The Midwest front-end should fix the "Keltec vibes" once it arrives... :) So far, the main thing the backend assembly offers is tail-weight--a factory Charger is already a very long, muzzle-heavy pistol and adding a long heavy "tail" behind the grip helps move the center of gravity more rearward. Part of me is really tempted to really go Full Q-Branch Gadgetqueer on this thing since it's being built purely as a fun gun with no "serious work" purpose... it's not gonna be sniping SMERSH assholes as they crawl out of a billboard, but I want this thing to make you imagine yourself doing so with it and say "yeah, I could see Desmond Llewellyn handing Sean Connery this."

Really, I'm starting to wish the PC Charger had more aftermarket support so I could build one of these in an actually useful caliber. Too bad Washington has gone Full F'ing California Retard in the past week, "ghost gun" ban passed and standard-cap mag ban on the floor for vote as I type this after our spineless Resucklicucks withdrew all their "run out the clock" amendments...

[pinzgauer]

I know it's unpopular here, but I'm not a keltic folding carbine hater.

It won't replace my real carbines, but my brother has a 9 mm that takes Glock mags with a tiny streamlight laser/light and it is deadly fast
at 25 yards. For his circumstances I get it.

So no slight intended with my Kel-Tec comment.

[Diamondback]

Not a hater here either, so no offense taken, amigo. :) I can see them having value in certain applications, just that with our BS here in WA it's been easier to build than buy if you want anything--and good luck finding a KT bare receiver to build up or a kit to build around it.

[Diamondback]

Test fitting the rifle stock... ironic that before you can fold the stock you have to extend it at least halfway due to the SOPMOD's "saddlebags." Have some cosmetic work to do blending and dehorning the cut beavertail, but at least it's mechanically solid.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655632728812683276/949869608763011142/20220305_192106.jpg

[Diamondback]

Beavertail blended, triggerpack installed.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/655632728812683276/957149137139273839/20220325_220934.jpg?width=911&height=683
SBA3 and A4 braces require some surgery to work on a STAP adapter if you want to be able to use "full collapse" Position 1, mainly lopping off the front lip and hogging out a hole for the tube and keyway on the rear face. My poor brand-new Dremel is getting a workout on this build...

[Diamondback]

And the final update before it goes into On Hold while I work on the mag stash.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655632728812683276/968711930934079548/20220426_201339.jpg
The two blue MTM cases are for ammo (ammo case currently holding various small parts awaiting barrel assemblies and a second STAP-SF) and tools, the Harbor Freight yellow case is mags, chamber flag and Maglula. Still need 10" and 16" Acculite barrel/Midwest handguard assemblies and a scope.

Main reason for this one last (for now) update is Discount Enterprises had a half-off sale on everything Timber Creek they stocked, which made the extended mag-release, forward M-Lok QD and the Maglula loader/unloader set a palatable package-deal. Now to find an out of the way corner to set this case aside a while...

[Diamondback]

So a Magpul forend found its way into my Emergency Mag Drop from Lanbo's... it's about as long as the 6" barrel, so I'll have to have a little hogged out of the front end to accommodate the sight's barrel-band.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655632728812683276/978055907437064274/20220522_145946.jpg

Barrels on hold until I finish the Mag Stash and get some crap squared away with the old house... trying to undo three decades of "au-naturel landscaping" ain't easy or cheap.

[Diamondback]

Got an offer too good to ignore on the Midwest rifle-length handguard, so here's mocking up that configuration. The barrel once in hand and installed will stick out another 3" past this, more if the linear comp is screwed on.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655632728812683276/983923309555122197/20220607_192251.jpg

[202]

Got an offer too good to ignore on the Midwest rifle-length handguard, so here's mocking up that configuration. The barrel once in hand and installed will stick out another 3" past this, more if the linear comp is screwed on.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/655632728812683276/983923309555122197/20220607_192251.jpg

It’s looking good.

[Diamondback]

Thanks--while it's not subject to my usual "Would I Take This To War" standard, the standard on this project is "would I hand it to Sean Connery or Desmond Llewelyn to make From Russia With Love with," and I think it's getting there.

Then I have to find a way to lash the MIdwest handguard and the SOPMOD stock together to make it a "one piece transport unit" like the AR7, my concern is that Velcro straps might melt from the barrel heat.