View Full Version : Restricted LE/Gov't Use, Will I be okay for the ban?
Bushmaster-M4A3
12-13-08, 18:01
I have an AR with this marking. Would it be okay if there's another ban? I'm not LE by the way.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2589/ar15leomarkingvv8.jpg
Don Robison
12-13-08, 18:04
Just like the rest of us, you'll have to wait until a ban is actually imposed and see what it says.
Well, we don't know what the new ban will be. There may be no grandfather provision in this next one and they all have to get turned in.
If there is a grandfather clause, new guns will likely get some type of date stamp designation.
MisterWilson
12-13-08, 18:05
Seriously? I'd wager that it's going to be a cause for trouble at some point down the road.
I would honestly consider trading it for a plainly marked one, maybe even at a loss, just to be on the safe side.
Don't worry about that language. Each and every one of us are members of "a well regulated militia" as spoken of in the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Albeit, each one of us can be a "Militia of One" (sound familiar to the recent Army ads?), since DC vs. Heller affirmed that individual right. Hey, maybe I should copyright that.....A Militia of ONE.
Regarding the "well regulated" part, we all had to fill out paperwork which regulated the purchase of the firearm, and for now that is regulation enough. And since we are a Government of the People, by the People, that satisfies the Government Use part. We are the Government and we own the rifle and use it for our lawful purposes.
If we come to the point where confiscation takes place (or the attempt) there will be hell to pay in this Country. No language on the right side of the mag well will make any difference.
Just some humble words of wisdom from an Air Cav flyboy who now ranches for a living.
Regards,
OH58D
TriumphRat675
12-13-08, 18:58
Worry less about the words on the receiver and more about being able to prove that your weapon was purchased before any ban takes effect - assuming this hypothetical ban contains a grandfather clause. You'll want to keep your receipts.
I'll buy it for a fair price so that you don't get in trouble down the road if another AWB is passed. Let me know.
"a well regulated militia"
"well regulated" didn't mean back then what it means today... "regulated" meant regular, well-stocked, well trained, etc., back in the day. had nothing to do with our current use of well-restricted, baby-sat, controlled by the government, etc.
Think about that statement for a minute. If it is already in possession prior to any hypothetical ban being enacted that it is in fact "pre ban". Not to mention that Colt can easily tell someone when the weapon was made based of the serial number.
Worry less about the words on the receiver and more about being able to prove that your weapon was purchased before any ban takes effect - assuming this hypothetical ban contains a grandfather clause. You'll want to keep your receipts.
Think about that statement for a minute. If it is already in possession prior to any hypothetical ban being enacted that it is in fact "pre ban". Not to mention that Colt can easily tell someone when the weapon was made based of the serial number.
i have to wonder again, as i wondered this during the last ban- how the hell is anyone going to know if a receiver is preban?
i had a minor run-in with the law right after i got out of the army at the tail end of the last ban, and a couple of my weapons were confiscated by local police. one was a post-ban gun in pre-ban configuration... i wasn't concerned about it at the time, and the cops didn't appear to give a crap what configuration it was in, and released it to me two days later. that was a federal weapons violation, however, at the time.
how much effort does it take, and who's willing to give it?
edit: and how many people actually got screwed over the first ban? did anyone even take it serious? i know of one guy in california that got entrapped into assembling a post-ban into pre-ban config for an undercover cop, but that's the only one i'm aware of.
Bushmaster-M4A3
12-13-08, 19:17
This is a Bushmaster by the way. I think Colt does alot of LE markings, such as 6920, but I don't know if Bushmaster had many this way too.
Bushamster can do it also as I called them from Baghdad with the serial number of one of our carbines. It wasn't instantaneous but they can do it.
I'd be willing to be almost every manufacturer who is worth 2 rat turds could do it if necessary.
This is a Bushmaster by the way. I think Colt does alot of LE markings, such as 6920, but I don't know if Bushmaster had many this way too.
Bushamster can do it also as I called them from Baghdad with the serial number of one of our carbines. It wasn't instantaneous but they can do it.
I'd be willing to be almost every manufacturer who is worth 2 rat turds could do it if necessary.
manufacturers are freely giving out manufacture dates of serial numbers over the phone? i dont know if thats a good thing or not... certainly good for someone wanting to buy a gun during a ban. not good for the guy standing around in front of a cop holding his rifle.
TriumphRat675
12-13-08, 19:48
Think about that statement for a minute. If it is already in possession prior to any hypothetical ban being enacted that it is in fact "pre ban". Not to mention that Colt can easily tell someone when the weapon was made based of the serial number.
I have thought about it. I have professional experience with police officers and prosecutors and their thought processes, and in my opinion having actual, documentary evidence that you are in compliance with the law available to you right now as opposed to "at some point, over the phone, from a third party" can make a very real, very big difference in how and where you spend the night.
Pre-ban and post-ban rifles? When will people realize that the next ban will apply to ALL semiautomatic rifles and there will be no grandfather clause. The liberal left does not want ANY semi automatic firearms in civilian hands. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Look at what happened to the U.K and Australia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I
Whether or not your gun is pre-ban I, pre-ban II, with or without LE markings will not matter. They will come and take them. It is not a matter of IF but WHEN they will try this.
We MUST make a vow to use any means possible to prevent the infringement on our god-given right to keep and bear arms. If we stand up and state that we will not tolerate an infringement on our constitutional right, and that we will use deadly force on anyone that does trample on our rights, only then will they think twice.
Be a patriot and stand up for what America always has been and always must be. God Bless.
DocMinster
12-13-08, 21:01
Honestly this is all crazy talk!!!
We can speculate all day...The simple fact of the matter is none of us know what is going to happen. Until...it happens.
IMO ...
We MUST make a vow to use any means possible to prevent the infringement on our god-given right to keep and bear arms. If we stand up and state that we will not tolerate an infringement on our constitutional right, and that we will use deadly force on anyone that does trample on our rights, only then will they think twice.
Be a patriot and stand up for what America always has been and always must be. God Bless.
I hate to say it, but he's right. The time to make a choice about what you will do is now. Not when they're at your door to confiscate your weapons for mandatory destruction.
SwatDawg15
12-13-08, 21:16
I worked the first 5 years of my career during the first ban... I cant recall one time where anyone in Louisiana got hammered by LEO's. To be frank, we didnt give a rats ass, as long as whoever didnt try to kill us with them. All we ever did was run a ncic check on the s/n to check stolen, thats it. We took a few from felons, but I really dont know of any LEO (not feds) that hasseled anyone about pre/post ban. We had know way of knowing, and to this day still dont. Not to mention we had way to much to do then spend hours calling to see if something was pre-ban.
If there is a ban, I dont think very many locals will waste alot of time on it... feds, maybe, buy your average Officer, Deputy, Trooper could prolly care less.
DocMinster
12-13-08, 21:17
I hate to say it, but he's right. The time to make a choice about what you will do is now. Not when they're at your door to confiscate your weapons for mandatory destruction.
I don't believe it will happen... nothing even close...I see an AGRESSIVE ban MAYBE even the stoppage of the manufacturing of certain weapons. At the very least I see a ban with a manufacture mandate to identify new weapons being manufactured...and we are back to post ban configuration of new weapons.
I don't believe it will happen... nothing even close...I see an AGRESSIVE ban MAYBE even the stoppage of the manufacturing of certain weapons. At the very least I see a ban with a manufacture mandate to identify new weapons being manufactured...and we are back to post ban configuration of new weapons.
I don't think it will either, but my point is, if such a scenario would happen, you need to make your choices now, not when they're down the street taking your neighbor's guns and working their way to your house.
I also think Obama has way too much on his plate to worry about gun bans right now. With the economic situation and everything else, if he decides to pursue an AWB that did nothing the first time around to prevent crime, he's going to look like a fool pushing such a thing with all the issues that are WAY more important and need to be handled.
If there is a ban, I dont think very many locals will waste alot of time on it... feds, maybe, buy your average Officer, Deputy, Trooper could prolly care less.
I'd like to hope so. Maybe that's true in smaller towns, but I dunno about cities and urban areas. Where I'm from in rural PA, everyone knows the local guys, they're the guys you hang out at the gun shop and at the range with. Here, on the other hand, you have alot of guys on the force who never picked up a gun before they got to the academy, and you wonder if some of them became cops just because they got picked on in high school or something. Those are the cops I'd worry about in this type of situation.
TriumphRat675
12-13-08, 21:38
We MUST make a vow to use any means possible to prevent the infringement on our god-given right to keep and bear arms. If we stand up and state that we will not tolerate an infringement on our constitutional right, and that we will use deadly force on anyone that does trample on our rights, only then will they think twice.
If by that vow you mean "shoot law enforcement officers trying to enforce a law that I personally feel is unconstitutional but that the current court system is likely to believe is reasonable" then I can't stand with you on that one. It's probably not a good idea to post that kind of thing on a public forum with a high LEO ratio.
We elect officials who will fight the law for us, we do what we can on the grass-roots level, we go to the courts if necessary, and if we lose at the Supreme Court level we put red-dots on Marlin 1894s and bitch about it at the gun club. Everything else is tilting at windmills.
In any event we should probably wait for the ban to be proposed before getting too bent out of shape.
On a side note, it's Saturday night. Who wants to go get loaded?
SwatDawg15
12-13-08, 21:49
Pre-ban and post-ban rifles? When will people realize that the next ban will apply to ALL semiautomatic rifles and there will be no grandfather clause. The liberal left does not want ANY semi automatic firearms in civilian hands. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Look at what happened to the U.K and Australia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I
Whether or not your gun is pre-ban I, pre-ban II, with or without LE markings will not matter. They will come and take them. It is not a matter of IF but WHEN they will try this.
We MUST make a vow to use any means possible to prevent the infringement on our god-given right to keep and bear arms. If we stand up and state that we will not tolerate an infringement on our constitutional right, and that we will use deadly force on anyone that does trample on our rights, only then will they think twice.
Be a patriot and stand up for what America always has been and always must be. God Bless.
You need to rethink this...
DocMinster
12-13-08, 21:50
Who wants to go get loaded?
I'll drink to that!!!:D
DocMinster
12-13-08, 21:51
You need to rethink this...
I agree... Like I said "Crazy Talk"
If by that vow you mean "shoot law enforcement officers trying to enforce a law that I personally feel is unconstitutional but that the current court system is likely to believe is reasonable" then I can't stand with you on that one. It's probably not a good idea to post that kind of thing on a public forum with a high LEO ratio.
That's something I don't advocate. But I'm going to guess that a majority of the LEO's who post here have a good understanding of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the 2nd Amendment as well. When I say that there's choices that need to be made, that applies to LEO's as well. When your job duty is to "protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic" are you going to comply with an order that basically throws the Bill of Rights out the window? Or are you going to refuse? That's another choice you need to make now. In my previous post, I said I don't think alot of rural local cops would comply with that order, as for urban areas, I dunno. The only way people like Hitler (and yes, this is an extreme comparision) got things done in history is with willing accomplices. You need to ask yourself, are you going to be a willing accomplice, or are you going to do the right thing?
For more insight on this, you should read the column written in SWAT Magazine by my friend, Constitutional scholar, and someone way smarter than I can ever hope to be, Stewart Rhodes.
"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
--- Samuel Adams
I'm just saying. Something to think about.
You need to rethink this...
if your handle is any indicator of what you do for a living, i'm sure this kind of talk makes you uncomfortable. however, he's right.
i've thought for a long time that the only way to make sure this doesn't happen is to make it known that people WILL use those guns the government seeks to take away AGAINST the government should they try. a mass registry of people who sign a under the statement, "just to let you know, if you further violate my constitutional rights, you are no longer an 'authority,' but rather criminals, and I will use force against you if you use force against me, just as I would with any other criminal."
however, no one would ever sign, for fear that it's really just a covert government registry of the first people to be black-bagged at the beginning of disarmament. i wouldn't sign, either, unless I was the one compiling the registry.
how did we get so off-topic?
On a side note, it's Saturday night. Who wants to go get loaded?
Yes it is. And that means I gotta go to work. Gotta pay for all these damn PMags, LMT lowers, and BCGs.
1. It is not your burden to show that you are in compliance, it is their burden to show that you committed a crime or did something illegal.
2. It is their responsibility to know the law.
3. The third party is in the case a manufacturer of said weapon so I highly doubt that their information would not be regarded as legitimate.
4. There is always the option to post bail.
5. If you are arrested and the arrest was improper or you feel that your rights were violated then there are ways to go about getting redress.
YEMV.
I have thought about it. I have professional experience with police officers and prosecutors and their thought processes, and in my opinion having actual, documentary evidence that you are in compliance with the law available to you right now as opposed to "at some point, over the phone, from a third party" can make a very real, very big difference in how and where you spend the night.
I agree... Like I said "Crazy Talk"
Actually, I think it is crazy talk to say believing in the constitution is crazy talk.
Pre-ban and post-ban rifles? When will people realize that the next ban will apply to ALL semiautomatic rifles and there will be no grandfather clause. The liberal left does not want ANY semi automatic firearms in civilian hands. There is no light at the end of the tunnel. Look at what happened to the U.K and Australia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I
Whether or not your gun is pre-ban I, pre-ban II, with or without LE markings will not matter. They will come and take them. It is not a matter of IF but WHEN they will try this.
We MUST make a vow to use any means possible to prevent the infringement on our god-given right to keep and bear arms. If we stand up and state that we will not tolerate an infringement on our constitutional right, and that we will use deadly force on anyone that does trample on our rights, only then will they think twice.
Be a patriot and stand up for what America always has been and always must be. God Bless.
Probably should not talk like that on a public forum......Seriously....we're worrying way too much. We delt with it in '94 we'll deal with it again if we have to. I'm just glad we got 4 years of gun buying freedom (2004-08). Thanks to GWB!!
Probably should not talk like that on a public forum......Seriously....we're worrying way too much. We delt with it in '94 we'll deal with it again if we have to. I'm just glad we got 4 years of gun buying freedom (2004-08). Thanks to GWB!!
**** dealing with Constitutional rights violations. and W said he'd sign another AWB if congress passed one, so no thanks to him on that.
**** dealing with Constitutional rights violations. and W said he'd sign another AWB if congress passed one, so no thanks to him on that.
Did he? I never heard that. I knew his father started it all.
If by that vow you mean "shoot law enforcement officers trying to enforce a law that I personally feel is unconstitutional but that the current court system is likely to believe is reasonable" then I can't stand with you on that one. It's probably not a good idea to post that kind of thing on a public forum with a high LEO ratio.
We elect officials who will fight the law for us, we do what we can on the grass-roots level, we go to the courts if necessary, and if we lose at the Supreme Court level we put red-dots on Marlin 1894s and bitch about it at the gun club. Everything else is tilting at windmills.
In any event we should probably wait for the ban to be proposed before getting too bent out of shape.
On a side note, it's Saturday night. Who wants to go get loaded?
And then Marlin 1894s are outlawed and we all put red-dots on muskets and bitch about it at the gun club.
And then muskets are outlawed and we are now living in the new UK/Australia.
In your view there is never again a time for a line to be drawn in the sand?
Wait for the ban to be proposed before getting too bent out of shape? Uh, how about do everything you can now to make sure the douchebags in Washington realize that there will be serious ramifications for them if they do so (namely, the loss of their current employment). We already know exactly what they want to do.
TriumphRat675
12-14-08, 09:11
Actually, I think it is crazy talk to say believing in the constitution is crazy talk.
I don't think there is anyone on this forum who doesn't believe in the 2nd amendment, or the rest of the Constitution for that matter. But there are ways and there are ways of dealing with Constitutional violations. MLK organized sit-ins and marches in response to his people being lynched and little girls being blown up in churches. People in this thread are alluding to using deadly force to resist confiscation of 30 round magazines. Owning a gun doesn't mean you have to use it at the first provocation, and it's hard to think of anything more damaging to our position right now than the 3%'ers talking about violent opposition to a hypothetical AWB. It's easy to forget that we do not have the support of the population at large on this issue. We need to focus on education, not intimidation.
1. It is not your burden to show that you are in compliance, it is their burden to show that you committed a crime or did something illegal.
2. It is their responsibility to know the law.
3. The third party is in the case a manufacturer of said weapon so I highly doubt that their information would not be regarded as legitimate.
4. There is always the option to post bail.
5. If you are arrested and the arrest was improper or you feel that your rights were violated then there are ways to go about getting redress.
YEMV.
1. That is not always the case. There are such things as affirmative defenses - i.e., it is illegal to possess "X" unless the defendant can prove "Y." In that case all the prosecution must prove is possession of the contraband and it is the defendant who carries the burden of proof on the exception. In any event, as a practical matter being able to show compliance is much more efficient than forcing others to show you are not. It is also appreciated by hard-working public servants who would rather be going after real bad guys.
2. I agree with you, but if I relied on others to competently perform their responsibilities 100% of the time, I would be in jail or sued to oblivion. Many officers know the law better than their prosecutors but some don't and some don't really care. Witness the Katrina confiscations. You should be prepared to educate them - respectfully! - and back up your statements.
3. Even if Colt can tell the police when the gun was made that doesn't tell them when you came into possession of it. If we assume our hypothetical ban's hypothetical grandfather clause is keyed off of manufacture dates like the last one, you'd be ok. If it is keyed off of the date you came into possession of the weapon - and IIRC a few of the proposals are - that's a little more troubling. I'm planning ahead.
4. Jail sucks. Trust me on this. I've spent a lot of time in jails, always in a situation where I could walk out any time I wanted, and if I never go back for any reason I will die happy. If you have been arrested you've already lost half the battle. You're in the system, you have a permanent black mark on your record that as a practical matter can never be fully expunged, you are guaranteed having to pay somebody a whole lot of money, and you might meet some fun new friends who carry interesting and drug resistant diseases. Bail is not an acceptable substitute for not going to jail.
5. Lawsuits suck. Trust me on this. If you're paying for it, a lawsuit makes jail look like a teddy bear's picnic. Don't file a lawsuit if you can possibly help it.
Robb Jensen
12-14-08, 09:16
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/smilies/crystal-ball.jpg
I don't know, I know of any wording of a possible ban.
SwatDawg15
12-14-08, 09:45
if your handle is any indicator of what you do for a living, i'm sure this kind of talk makes you uncomfortable. however, he's right.
i've thought for a long time that the only way to make sure this doesn't happen is to make it known that people WILL use those guns the government seeks to take away AGAINST the government should they try. a mass registry of people who sign a under the statement, "just to let you know, if you further violate my constitutional rights, you are no longer an 'authority,' but rather criminals, and I will use force against you if you use force against me, just as I would with any other criminal."
however, no one would ever sign, for fear that it's really just a covert government registry of the first people to be black-bagged at the beginning of disarmament. i wouldn't sign, either, unless I was the one compiling the registry.
how did we get so off-topic?
Yes my handle is what I am, 11 years on the job. I was referring to his comments about using deadly force. Ya know there have been alot of men and women die just so that we could have a free life over here, We have a legal system that is in place and for the most part, works. Why in the hell would someone get on a public forum and state he will use deadly force on LEO's for ANY REASON? or anybody else for that matter? Its comments like his, that Obama will use against us. We gun owners should be on the same side.
I dont take anything personal, but it was bad taste to write what he did, but to each their own...
Don Robison
12-14-08, 09:54
Yes my handle is what I am, 11 years on the job. I was referring to his comments about using deadly force. Ya know there have been alot of men and women die just so that we could have a free life over here, We have a legal system that is in place and for the most part, works. Why in the hell would someone get on a public forum and state he will use deadly force on LEO's for ANY REASON? or anybody else for that matter? Its comments like his, that Obama will use against us. We gun owners should be on the same side.
I dont take anything personal, but it was bad taste to write what he did, but to each their own...
While I do agree that it's stupid to get on the net and say what you would do in regards to illegal activity, I find a certain amount of irony in your avitar and what it implies. just sayin'
DocMinster
12-14-08, 11:06
Actually, I think it is crazy talk to say believing in the constitution is crazy talk.
Hmmm???
Please elaborate... are you saying that the U.S. Constitution does not hold water?
Because I am saying that all this confiscation of our firearms is down right Crazy Talk..
By the way I am a Combat Vet... NRA Pistol, Rifle and Shotgun Instructor and JUST applied to a local Sheriffs department and I feel STRONGLY that "We The People" will not allow the U.S. Constitution to waiver by contacting their local government official and vehemently voicing their displeasure if a Ban/Confiscation is ever proposed.
Doc
For the record: I AM NOT encouraging individuals to use any kind of force, lethal or non-lethal, against any government personnel or entity (local, state and federal), or anybody else for that matter.
With that being said, we have to do everything possible to encourage our politicians to not amend the constitution to the point where firearm ownership is no longer an individual right. I believe in democracy, and will respect ANY new law(s) that pertain to the right to keep and bear arms, that have come forth from a democratic process. Call your house and senate representative today. Every voice counts.
I hope this clarifies my stance on this issue. Please let me know if you need additional clarification, or have any questions. God Bless America, and those that defend her.
Robb Jensen
12-14-08, 11:57
This thread will be moved to trash with the next off topic post.
Please go ahead and trash this thread. It has strayed off topic completely.
knowing in advance that there are "pre ban" guns marked that way, that are NOT restricted, if the new ban allows grandfathered weapons, then i'm sure they'll simply require date stamping of all magazines/receivers.. possibly even barrels and other parts.
How can you be sure of that when it wasn't required before? The only thing that had stampings were magazines. I would be willing to bet my first born there would be a grandfather clause.
knowing in advance that there are "pre ban" guns marked that way, that are NOT restricted, if the new ban allows grandfathered weapons, then i'm sure they'll simply require date stamping of all magazines/receivers.. possibly even barrels and other parts.
How can you be sure of that when it wasn't required before? The only thing that had stampings were magazines. I would be willing to bet my first born there would be a grandfather clause.
ok, i shouldn't have said "im sure," how about "i think it's likely?" because there won't be any way to distinguish between old mil-n-LE-only stuff and new mil-n-LE-only stuff if they don't require dates for the new stuff. i mean, that would be the FAIR way to do it- do you disagree?
i also think there will be grandfather clauses. fortunately for us, most libs are clueless as to what makes up a weapon and how disposable magazines are- otherwise i'd say all these "hicap" magazines we've been stockpiling will probably NOT get grandfathered in.
Because of all the confusion that could be created that would be even more of a reason to not be able to implement any harebrained schemes. Unlike NFA items which have been tightly controlled and regulated for a long period of time, no one has been keeping tabs on evil "assault weapons". The last AWB was a complete failure which accomplished nothing and any future one would be just as dismal.
ok, i shouldn't have said "im sure," how about "i think it's likely?" because there won't be any way to distinguish between old mil-n-LE-only stuff and new mil-n-LE-only stuff if they don't require dates for the new stuff. i mean, that would be the FAIR way to do it- do you disagree?
i also think there will be grandfather clauses. fortunately for us, most libs are clueless as to what makes up a weapon and how disposable magazines are- otherwise i'd say all these "hicap" magazines we've been stockpiling will probably NOT get grandfathered in.
Because of all the confusion that could be created that would be even more of a reason to not be able to implement any harebrained schemes. Unlike NFA items which have been tightly controlled and regulated for a long period of time, no one has been keeping tabs on evil "assault weapons". The last AWB was a complete failure which accomplished nothing and any future one would be just as dismal.
well that's exactly what date stamps would avoid- confusion. IF there's to be a ban, which would be ****ed up, i would at least appreciate the stamp- so as to make it plainly obvious that my weapons are preban and can have their vortexs and 30 rounders and SOPMODs and CTRs.
it seems like something the antis would want to require, and everybody with grandfatherable weapons would benefit.
I'll buy it for a fair price so that you don't get in trouble down the road if another AWB is passed. Let me know.
+1...
**** dealing with Constitutional rights violations. and W said he'd sign another AWB if congress passed one, so no thanks to him on that.
You're right, Bush has not been a great friend to the 2nd Amendment. His Justice Dept. signed an amicus brief supporting DC in DC v. Heller and the guy he picked to run the ATF is notoriously anti-gun. But for the AWB situation, I'll say for him the reason he said he'd sign it, was for purposes of re-election, but at the same time, he was making sure it wasn't going to make it to his desk. Since the Dems took control in 2006, it hasn't come back to him either, because they know he won't sign it now. Basically, Bush was saying in 2004 "if you bring it to me, sure, I'll sign it... (whisper) you better make sure it doesn't get to my desk."
Ok, so how do you address the issue of all the weapons that are already in circulation? Do I now need to send my weapons somewhere to get them marked, sent back to me and then I report those numbers to some agency to make sure that they know my guns are "pre AWB II"? I don't think so.
I would love to see a reliable statistic from the 1994-2004 time frame showing how many people were falsely accused and convicted of having an "assault rifle" that was specifically banned due to confusion.
well that's exactly what date stamps would avoid- confusion. IF there's to be a ban, which would be ****ed up, i would at least appreciate the stamp- so as to make it plainly obvious that my weapons are preban and can have their vortexs and 30 rounders and SOPMODs and CTRs.
it seems like something the antis would want to require, and everybody with grandfatherable weapons would benefit.
Ok, so how do you address the issue of all the weapons that are already in circulation? Do I now need to send my weapons somewhere to get them marked, sent back to me and then I report those numbers to some agency to make sure that they know my guns are "pre AWB II"? I don't think so.
I would love to see a reliable statistic from the 1994-2004 time frame showing how many people were falsely accused and convicted of having an "assault rifle" that was specifically banned due to confusion.
not all weapons would have to be marked- only those made after the ban-date. it would be assumed that if a weapon had no date stamp that it was pre-ban.
Forgot to comment on this. I don't see how it is a bad thing as they are only indicating when the weapon was made which is all the matters. As for the guy standing in front of the cop with is rifle what does it matter? All they will say is that it was made xxxxx and I am sure that they can tell where it was initially shipped. Other than that I doubt there is much more they can say.
Again the whole thing is silly to begin with since we have no idea if, or when any ban will be reintroduced and what it will say.
manufacturers are freely giving out manufacture dates of serial numbers over the phone? i dont know if thats a good thing or not... certainly good for someone wanting to buy a gun during a ban. not good for the guy standing around in front of a cop holding his rifle.
Again the whole thing is silly to begin with since we have no idea if, or when any ban will be reintroduced and what it will say.
yea, but what the hell else are we gonna do with our off time? i don't drink anymore.
There isn't alot to do in the prison where I am located so when I am not working hard I am online.
yea, but what the hell else are we gonna do with our off time? i don't drink anymore.
They could make it so that any pre-ban rifles/pistols are required to be re-outfitted to new ban status. They would not be able to change what you keep in your house, but any guns that you wanted to go to the range with could be subject to public view by an on or off duty LEO and be subject to prosecution. That way, many folks who enjoy shooting would be forced to comply and use 10 rnd mags, no flash surpressors, no barrels under 20"... or whatever they come up with. It will seriously hurt many of Americans shooting public financially.... but I doubt if a total semi-auto ban could ever get through. Some folks are fearing the worst, and we all should at least give that some thought... But I still like to think that there a shred of common sense left in the country, and that at least some of it will prevail. As to the Pre-Ban status of the original poster, I would really hope that there is a grandfather clause.... there would be no way to gather up and pay for all the millions of guns out there in our country. I do forsee a date placed on all new guns as a viable way to tell pre-ban from post ban. That could happen.
glocke12@mac.com
12-15-08, 06:55
I agree that it is doubtful that any future ban will include confiscation. First they would have to round up all the 4473's from the dealers, than go knocking on everyones door of whoever filled out a 4473....not gonna happen...Not to mention the fact that there would undoubtedly by widespread resistance to people coming around to round up your guns.
A more realistic scenario is a prohibition on the manufacturing, sale and transfer of semi ...so people would more or less be stuck with what they have now.
Forcing people to make their existing semi's into a "less evil" type of gun is something I hadnt thought of...but is possible.
Hmmm???
Please elaborate... are you saying that the U.S. Constitution does not hold water?
Because I am saying that all this confiscation of our firearms is down right Crazy Talk..
By the way I am a Combat Vet... NRA Pistol, Rifle and Shotgun Instructor and JUST applied to a local Sheriffs department and I feel STRONGLY that "We The People" will not allow the U.S. Constitution to waiver by contacting their local government official and vehemently voicing their displeasure if a Ban/Confiscation is ever proposed.
Doc
No sir, quite the opposite.
The Constitution is the Supreme law of the land. I do not believe it is a "living" documment that can be changed by the whim of the uneducated masses. It must be defended and preserved (especially the 2am) or we will lose our Liberty and our Republic.
With respect to the thread title, your concern is reasonable I think.
When someone who is unfamiliar with the history of the markings and law looks at the restrictions they say "How can you own this?"
I suppose it's like looking at a GI 1911A1 that has stamped on it "US Government Property".
But, (there's always a 'But'), with something of a push for a Constitutional Convention going on, there's always the concern of our Bill of Rights going away.
Just a guess but seems to me that IF there's a new ban then maybe the markings on restricted firearms would be worded differently then current production. That would make the distinction clear.
Like I said, just a guess.
Just a guess but seems to me that IF there's a new ban then maybe the markings on restricted firearms would be worded differently then current production. That would make the distinction clear.
Like I said, just a guess.
They'll be in spanish or arabic.
They'll be in spanish or arabic.
Wording, not language. :p
Just print the law,history,BATF findings,and then give a copy to your local PD chief,county Sheriff,and DA.Have your lawyers phone number in the reference.
DocMinster
12-15-08, 20:37
No sir, quite the opposite.
The Constitution is the Supreme law of the land. I do not believe it is a "living" documment that can be changed by the whim of the uneducated masses. It must be defended and preserved (especially the 2am) or we will lose our Liberty and our Republic.
Hear Hear !!!:D
localfiend
12-15-08, 22:38
I think it will work just fine for defending your rights if there is a ban.
If by that vow you mean "shoot law enforcement officers trying to enforce a law that I personally feel is unconstitutional but that the current court system is likely to believe is reasonable" then I can't stand with you on that one. It's probably not a good idea to post that kind of thing on a public forum with a high LEO ratio.
We elect officials who will fight the law for us, we do what we can on the grass-roots level, we go to the courts if necessary, and if we lose at the Supreme Court level we put red-dots on Marlin 1894s and bitch about it at the gun club. Everything else is tilting at windmills.
In any event we should probably wait for the ban to be proposed before getting too bent out of shape.
On a side note, it's Saturday night. Who wants to go get loaded?
1. The 2nd Amendment is NOT subjective.
2. It's a Very Big Deal - not quixotic posturing - to decide if one will draw the line at confiscation.
3. LEOs who would take legally owned weapons from law abiding citizens have violated their oath.
WilliamPeterson556
12-15-09, 19:52
If such a unconstitutional ban were to take place, I find it ridiculous that people would just hand over there firearms. We are not Aussie's or Brits..were AMERICAN in the land of the "free". Or its supposed to be. We all need to stand up to such tyranny and nazi-like ideals. I dont know about you but i will NEVER ever let the Government take my freedom from me. If I have to bury every semi-auto firearm i will. Or maybye they will get "stolen" from me. For those of you who will give em up, only give them your stripped lower or serial numbered part. Make them take you to court to get anything more. Do everything you can to make it hard for the ATF and the leadership behind it. But in reality i dont think they would be as foolish as to commit political suicide. After the '94 ban, alot of them lost there public offices because they said "yea" instead of "nay". And as someone said earlier, there is too much other stuff they have to worry about. Sorry for going off, but we all should get upset at the idea of them taking away the freedom that so many have lost their lives to ensure...
getting back to topic:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y75/goretro77/gunpics/_D304011.jpg
Think of it this way - It is your private property, it was YOUR hard earned dollars that actually purchased it. If you have not committed any violent crimes with it, you earned the firearm.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/918/jfcx.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/jfcx.jpg/)
Failure2Stop
12-16-09, 02:54
This was a dumb thread that ran its course a year ago (check the date-stamp).
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