View Full Version : School shooting - 3 dead - Here we go again
Adrenaline_6
11-30-21, 17:08
https://nypost.com/2021/11/30/several-wounded-in-shooting-at-oxford-high-school-in-michigan/
3 dead - reported to be students. 6 injured. Just when prices were really starting to come down. Not an AR though.
So once again, seems there was prior warning.
Robin Redding, a parent of a senior at the school, said her son stayed home Tuesday because he heard of threats of a possible shooting there.
At least cops who responded went directly in.
So once again, seems there was prior warning.
Robin Redding, a parent of a senior at the school, said her son stayed home Tuesday because he heard of threats of a possible shooting there.
At least cops who responded went directly in.
Maybe they don't a POS for a chief who didn't personally edit their ROE for active shooters giving them the OK to sit outside with their thumb up their a$$ while it happened?
We are living in a society in which no one considers standing toe to toe with someone who offended them and fighting with their fists. People immediately go to the gun.
We need to identify what's broken and fix it!
We are living in a society in which no one considers standing toe to toe with someone who offended them and fighting with their fists. People immediately go to the gun.
We need to identify what's broken and fix it!
Sadly this is the new normal. Can't handle your shit, shoot up the school. When I was in junior high I had more guns than most adults and definitely went to school with more than a few shitheads. Punk ass pussies are nothing new and there is nothing that is more punk ass pussy than bigger kids that have been held back a couple years ****ing with little kids simply because they can.
You never see them try that shit with someone their own size because they are punk ass pussies. So every 6th to 8th grader in the world has had to put up with somebodies over sized special ed tard because that is simply the way it is. Back then we just figured out how to handle it, sometimes you squared them away by other means on your own time.
But none of us were an even bigger pussy who decided "I'm not happy so I'm gonna shoot up the school."
Don't know what the circumstances were this time around, but safe money is on "he cyber bullied me and I can't handle it" or "I should be in a supervised mental facility but they put me in public school instead."
No matter what the actual story is, results are similar and usually the people who get shot are kids who had nothing to do with the problem in the first place but were simply near by. Rarely do we get lucky enough to have the shitheads shoot other actual shitheads.
titsonritz
11-30-21, 22:02
We are living in a society in which no one considers standing toe to toe with someone who offended them and fighting with their fists. People immediately go to the gun.
We need to identify what's broken and fix it!
How do you fix a bunch of pussy-ass snowflakes with their faces in their phone and want free shit?
Never going to get any details on the shooter since they are a minor. Wonder if this one will be let out on a cash bond and be putting YouTube crap by the morning.
The biggest problem imo isn’t the faces in phones abs such, cause his knows in my teen years I had my head in books, TV, music… just like kids do today.
The issue I have is that we teach and demand dependence. Punish defense and to finish up the triple crown of retard we insure that the system we demand dependence on doesn’t work for squat. You know we have zero tolerance for the kid who bytes a pop tart into a gun, but return the kid who stabbed a teacher with scissors to class the same day.
Kids with an ounce of self respect do t act like imbeciles.
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Adrenaline_6
12-01-21, 07:47
Until "consequences" and "accountability" is taught as a society again. We are fooked.
Let's put it into perspective. As a kid, if I, and I'm sure a bunch of you too, did something wrong and a neighbor or family friend had to come in and bust your ass for it, not only would it happen that one time. Once your Dad found out what you did and the "dishonor" you brought to him and the family, you would surely get your ass busted again...worse even.
Now, idiot parents shield their "little angels" that can do no wrong and claim that it "wasn't their fault" anyway. Pathetic. Parents create the monsters and keep feeding them until they become big monsters that they can no longer deal with and society doesn't want. Consequences need to be taught early and be carried out. Parents should not be their kids "friend", they have friends, they need parents.
I'm seeing almost no coverage of this on social media. What little mention of this is out there has no description of the suspect.
I am starting to think that the suspect doesn't match the narrative?
Adrenaline_6
12-01-21, 08:17
Maybe, but I'm not sure about that though. Oxford township is 92% white, 4% Hispanic, 2% Asian, 1% Black, 2% Multi-racial (stats vary a little depending on where you look but all close enough).
Edited again: Found correct data:
@1600 students
80% White
11% Hispanic
5% Black
2% Asian
2% Multi
He had been suspended 2 days prior, came in with a deer head placed it on a table in the common area and then started shooting. 2 deputies engaged within 5 minutes of 911 call and he gave up and lawyered up.
Sounds like he was going for popular kids, 1 football players and at least one, possibly 2 cheerleader killed.
3 critical
1 serious
3 stable
1 discharged (teacher)
Adrenaline_6
12-01-21, 08:32
If he was trying to impersonate an officer to get in the classroom in this video, which surely sounds like it, it's definitely a white guy bro.
https://nypost.com/2021/11/30/tiktok-video-shows-oxford-high-school-students-fleeing-shooter/
Business_Casual
12-01-21, 10:31
“As we learn the full details, my heart goes out to the families enduring the unimaginable grief of losing a loved one,” Biden said.
He’s lost a son and a wife, but he can’t imagine the grief?
Climate change is to blame! Elect more lunatics to stop this!
no more God ! a huge part for many the base of whats OK in life not you can do anything think anything identify as anything there is NO accountability there is NOTHING after this etc... not all believe but that is a big part for many and not all so dont go off on this :)
no more pledge of allegiance kids today hate the country they live in !
no more truth ! such as not all kids are racist by birth and yeah black kids can be racist spanish can be racist BUT its a tiny part of life and society ! and YOU WANT THEM to be free to be racist so you can see it and avoid them !
no more accountability for anything !
blame trump and whites and conservatives !
blame global warming !
blame someone else !
girls can just SAY they are a boy and you are told to believe that and bend to them (flip that to)
also everyone is special everyone gets a trophy lowest get screwed on learning a life lesson to work hard or learn you might not be good at this !
NOBODY is told to work harder instead everything is brought down to the lowest so even the top folks can get screwed learning why work when its handed to you
never ever punish anyone for doing wrong instead say ITS OK its something or someone's fault not yours !
sure many can think of more we can go on and on the way were are with the left lets normalize pedophiles ! yeah thats going to work out well !
new school uniforms NAKED ! including teachers
when we have grade school teachers telling kids to perform gay sex acts on each other practice these ! it's not just the kids it's the teachers and the administration and the school board to blame for so much of this !!!!
how often do you hear of this happening at a strict private school or a christian school ? unless it was the new kid put in way late and they have no discipline ? cause they do not follow what current culture is pushing I reckon !
Averageman
12-01-21, 11:07
He’s lost a son and a wife, but he can’t imagine the grief?
Well by his econmic's he can't do math, due to his recent history he can't control his bowels either, face it, he's a walking F'ing Zombie.
I question his intellect and his basic ability to care for himself and his bodily functions.
no more God ! a huge part for many the base of whats OK in life not you can do anything think anything identify as anything there is NO accountability there is NOTHING after this etc... not all believe but that is a big part for many and not all so dont go off on this :)
no more pledge of allegiance kids today hate the country they live in !
Something you might find interesting is the pledge was written by a socialist named Francis Bellamy and the salute was the right arm raised like the salute to hitler.
In addition to being a secular propagandist, he masqueraded as a Baptist minister until the congregation caught on to what he was going on about and kicked him to the curb.
WickedWillis
12-01-21, 13:10
4th kid died today.
Freaking awful
I heard that Tate Myre the 16 year old football player was killed trying to disarm the shooter, there is already an effort underway to rename the football stadium after him. Also the father of the shooter bought the Sig 2022 four days before the shooting.
I heard that Tate Myre the 16 year old football player was killed trying to disarm the shooter, there is already an effort underway to rename the football stadium after him. Also the father of the shooter bought the Sig 2022 four days before the shooting.
Another parent of the year award winner?
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-01-21, 13:32
He had been suspended 2 days prior, came in with a deer head placed it on a table in the common area and then started shooting. 2 deputies engaged within 5 minutes of 911 call and he gave up and lawyered up.
Sounds like he was going for popular kids, 1 football players and at least one, possibly 2 cheerleader killed.
Well, my kids won't be shot...
He’s lost a son and a wife, but he can’t imagine the grief?
Biden took a lot of justified hits for his empathy over deaths, and especially violent military deaths, because of his experience with Beua. I guess they got ahold of him and he is on strict protocol to not bring him up and try to empathize, just sympathise.
Another parent of the year award winner?
That he bought a gun? Granted, access by a 16yo isn't great, not even legal here in CO, but how many people here have said that they had access to guns as school kids- if not took guns to school to hunt before class?
Handgun, so no AWB implication. Gun control is at its least popular in a generation. And it gave cover to let Dumb and Dumber Cuomo to have Xmas together.
I feel for the parents of the kid who tried to take him out. I know my son would attempt it because of who he is, he thinks he understands guns, and he thinks he invincible.
That he bought a gun? Granted, access by a 16yo isn't great, not even legal here in CO, but how many people here have said that they had access to guns as school kids- if not took guns to school to hunt before class?
I used the "?" as I don't have all the facts yet, but what appears clear so far is his kid had serious behavior issues and from what I'm gathering so far, seems like parents that didn't know their kid very well. That as much as anything, seems to a theme among some of these events. These parents told junior not to talk to the police etc. Had I done something a fraction as bad, my mother would have bashed me over the head, tied me up, dumped me on the front yard, and told the po po to remove the garbage from her site. Ok, slight exaggeration, but not that much...
I also had access to firearms in the summer, and one summer I shot out some windows with my bb gun, and it was gone for years, or until I "matured the F up enough to be responsible" as i recall. Another POV also, Brooklyn in the 70s/80s, there was no lack of guns around, but there was also a code where you didn't settle such things with guns, and it was looked down on if you did. The two NYC cops who worked at my high school, which was a tough place, didn't take any guff, and it was your a$$ if you brought a weapon to school and or decided to show them what a tough guy you were. So, crime, beefs, etc tended to happen outside of school, some times just down the block, but rarely in school.
So what we can say as those old enough to remember the fact it is not, nor ever was, about access to guns per se but parenting is, I tend to look to the parents/parenting for answers to such an event first, then their general environment and other supports around them.
My point: There's no way in hell his parents where first alerted to the fact they had seriously f-d up kid unitl this event, yet the kid had access to a recently purchased handgun.
The tool used is obviously not the issue here.
no more God ! a huge part for many the base of whats OK in life not you can do anything think anything identify as anything there is NO accountability there is NOTHING after this etc... not all believe but that is a big part for many and not all so dont go off on this :)
no more pledge of allegiance kids today hate the country they live in !
no more truth ! such as not all kids are racist by birth and yeah black kids can be racist spanish can be racist BUT its a tiny part of life and society ! and YOU WANT THEM to be free to be racist so you can see it and avoid them !
no more accountability for anything !
blame trump and whites and conservatives !
blame global warming !
blame someone else !
girls can just SAY they are a boy and you are told to believe that and bend to them (flip that to)
also everyone is special everyone gets a trophy lowest get screwed on learning a life lesson to work hard or learn you might not be good at this !
NOBODY is told to work harder instead everything is brought down to the lowest so even the top folks can get screwed learning why work when its handed to you
never ever punish anyone for doing wrong instead say ITS OK its something or someone's fault not yours !
sure many can think of more we can go on and on the way were are with the left lets normalize pedophiles ! yeah thats going to work out well !
new school uniforms NAKED ! including teachers
when we have grade school teachers telling kids to perform gay sex acts on each other practice these ! it's not just the kids it's the teachers and the administration and the school board to blame for so much of this !!!!
how often do you hear of this happening at a strict private school or a christian school ? unless it was the new kid put in way late and they have no discipline ? cause they do not follow what current culture is pushing I reckon !
Gay?
Global warming?
Naked?
Racism?
You've got alot of emotions spewing. Try to condense it into some kind of rational thought to make it worth reading.
2 dummies and the dumbest one is now dead.
I heard that Tate Myre the 16 year old football player was killed trying to disarm the shooter, there is already an effort underway to rename the football stadium after him. Also the father of the shooter bought the Sig 2022 four days before the shooting.
Obviously we need to wait for the facts, but sounds like we lost another good one who probably knew he was done but stepped in anyway.
2 dummies and the dumbest one is now dead.
Wrong thread?
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-01-21, 16:13
I liked the Sheriff that spoke today. He said that he didn't see any evidence on video of anyone fighting back, we'll see. Lot's of footage it sounds like.
Is the kid 15 or 17?
The shooter didn't knock on a door, that was an undercover LEO- reported by Sheriff.
The previous 'warning' was early Nov, was from out of state, and had nothing to do with this incident. The shooter has no previous disciplinary actions, except for the day before and the day of the shooting. The parents were in for a meeting in the morning (10am?) and the shooting started at 1pm.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-01-21, 16:14
2 dummies and the dumbest one is now dead.
Please let this be a cross post about the demise of one of the Cuomo brothers, preferably a weightlifting accident with Fredo.
Something you might find interesting is the pledge was written by a socialist named Francis Bellamy and the salute was the right arm raised like the salute to hitler.
In addition to being a secular propagandist, he masqueraded as a Baptist minister until the congregation caught on to what he was going on about and kicked him to the curb.
I had heard of that stuff but its not quite how you wrote it IMHO :)
bellamy DIED 2 yrs before hitler even rose to power !!!
the salute was from 1892 hitler would have been 3 yrs old ! actually was a military salute then when saying to the flag you raise your hand toward flag :)
they also did change that to over the heart WWII for all because of that hitler thing so maybe hitler copied it ?
why in school
its about loving the country you live in not hating it and some discipline in the class and school
if you hate the pledge you could stand up and just stand there but its about stopping and listening and being quiet and respect etc...
socialist from 120 yrs go is not the same at all ?
Much of Bellamy’s activism was in response to a dramatic increase in U.S. immigration that took place during his lifetime.
Bellamy and other social gospel advocates anticipated that a “well-organized and patriotic public education system” would inculcate newcomers with American ideals and values.
Business_Casual
12-01-21, 17:41
You've got alot of emotions spewing. Try to condense it into some kind of rational thought to make it worth reading.
Hey now, easy. I love me some Honu posts!
I had heard of that stuff but its not quite how you wrote it IMHO :)
bellamy DIED 2 yrs before hitler even rose to power !!!
the salute was from 1892 hitler would have been 3 yrs old ! actually was a military salute then when saying to the flag you raise your hand toward flag :)
they also did change that to over the heart WWII for all because of that hitler thing so maybe hitler copied it ?
why in school
its about loving the country you live in not hating it and some discipline in the class and school
if you hate the pledge you could stand up and just stand there but its about stopping and listening and being quiet and respect etc...
socialist from 120 yrs go is not the same at all ?
Not to get too far off topic, Hitler, or some early nazi, stole the Roman salute as well as the Eagle standard.
But yeah, the "pledge" is completely socialist. Then sometime in the 50s they added "under god" to make it religiously socialist. Either way they can take that crap walking. You don't have to pledge anything to be a good American, you simply need to respect the Constitution. Those other socialists countries, including Germany's "national socialists", all required some kind of BS pledge.
Not to get too far off topic, Hitler, or some early nazi, stole the Roman salute as well as the Eagle standard.
But yeah, the "pledge" is completely socialist. Then sometime in the 50s they added "under god" to make it religiously socialist. Either way they can take that crap walking. You don't have to pledge anything to be a good American, you simply need to respect the Constitution. Those other socialists countries, including Germany's "national socialists", all required some kind of BS pledge.
yeah the nazi were good at stealing
agree you do not need to my thought in school would be more for routing discipline :) also I do think to many kids are TAUGHT to hate our country anymore ? that has nothing to do with pledge just to do with how bad teachers are today and MSM and social media :)
yeah the nazi were good at stealing
agree you do not need to my thought in school would be more for routing discipline :) also I do think to many kids are TAUGHT to hate our country anymore ? that has nothing to do with pledge just to do with how bad teachers are today and MSM and social media :)
Yeah, the only reason they would have the pledge today, is so kids could make a point of abstaining from it so they could virtue signal to the world all the evils they think it represents. Ironically if you remove the "under god", it will be damn near the same pledge everyone will be forced to recite if we ever do go full blown socialism. And anyone who abstains will end up in reeducation camps.
We need to change the mindset that once someone stops shooting and puts their hands up they can no longer be engaged. If you KNOW hes the killer and SEE him in the act, there should be no surrender and no quarter given.
dreamcrusher8307
12-02-21, 10:18
We need to change the mindset that once someone stops shooting and puts their hands up they can no longer be engaged. If you KNOW hes the killer and SEE him in the act, there should be no surrender and no quarter given.
That's not a mindset, it's established case law from SCOTUS. As soon as the threat stops, the ability to use deadly force stops.
See Graham v Connor and Tennessee v Garner.
Yeah reckon a lot change a few words many things can go sideways
Also how we think about it :)
Ironic will be on the FORCED free will you wont have :)
Yeah, the only reason they would have the pledge today, is so kids could make a point of abstaining from it so they could virtue signal to the world all the evils they think it represents. Ironically if you remove the "under god", it will be damn near the same pledge everyone will be forced to recite if we ever do go full blown socialism. And anyone who abstains will end up in reeducation camps.
We need to change the mindset that once someone stops shooting and puts their hands up they can no longer be engaged. If you KNOW hes the killer and SEE him in the act, there should be no surrender and no quarter given.
YUP end the threat !
joedirt199
12-02-21, 12:00
We have chased guys who, when they knew there was no way out, would surrender under the bright lights of a gas station in front of the cameras so we couldn't administer the ass whoopin they deserved.
titsonritz
12-02-21, 13:51
Creepy little ****er, School Officials Met With Crumbley the Day Before the Shooting & the Morning of the Shooting for ‘Concerning’ Behavior.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10266683/Michigan-gunman-Ethan-Crumbley-cell-phone-video-saying-planned-attack-day.html
There are many of you who have an issue with the death penalty. In this particular case I am 110% FOR it. I don't give a damn if he's 14 or 15, doesn't matter. There is ZERO doubt about his guilt, he should pay with his life.
We need to change the mindset that once someone stops shooting and puts their hands up they can no longer be engaged. If you KNOW hes the killer and SEE him in the act, there should be no surrender and no quarter given.
I understand the sentiment, but I don’t think giving the police impunity to shoot unarmed individuals is really the best course of action.
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I understand the sentiment, but I don’t think giving the police impunity to shoot unarmed individuals is really the best course of action.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYup, I agree. It was an emotional reaction, the odds of it happening in front of your eyes are rare and there is the great potential to miss context or not see the whole picture...but bad guys shouldn't be accustomed to thinking just because they decided to stop playing that the game is over. If Adam Lanza was confronted and fell into the fetal position crying, he still should have been shot to pieces. Morally and ethically right.
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titsonritz
12-02-21, 18:39
There are many of you who have an issue with the death penalty. In this particular case I am 110% FOR it. I don't give a damn if he's 14 or 15, doesn't matter. There is ZERO doubt about his guilt, he should pay with his life.
Hand in the cookie jar, I'm all for it and will take it a step further...I don't give a shit about the "insanity" factor, you're done. Should be a given.
Hand in the cookie jar, I'm all for it and will take it a step further...I don't give a shit about the "insanity" factor, you're done. Should be a given.
Never have given a shit about being "insane". If you are that loose mentally you are a danger to society, and locking you away doesn't cut it: the life you have taken is never to be replaced, therefore you forfeit yours.
Remember that crazy bitch in Texas who drowned her FIVE kids, then basically got away with it 'cause she's siiiiick? :cray: Screw that, I'd have had her near-drowned 4 times and revived. Then on #5 she goes under for good.
Tracking how I feel about lives taken in cold blood? I don't mean someone who raped your kid and you cap him as he's released from prison in 20 years. Pre-meditated or not that isn't the kind of case I am referring to. As long as you're damn sure you have the right perp.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-02-21, 23:20
Methodically walking and shooting people. Sound familiar? Another prescription drugged out kid it would seem.
We need to change the mindset that once someone stops shooting and puts their hands up they can no longer be engaged. If you KNOW hes the killer and SEE him in the act, there should be no surrender and no quarter given.
Just need a cop willing to shitcan his LE career and face real jail time and we are all set.
While I'm all for decisively engaging an active threat, I don't think you understand the primary purpose of law enforcement. Cops who are not directly engaged don't get to decide "outcome" and I don't think you'd want to live in the country where they were officially encouraged to do so.
Sadly criminals tend to know the rules better than most people, just the way of the world. Shitbags game the system and mostly innocent people aka "first time **** ups" keep trying to explain what happened over and over until they give somebody everything they need to arrest them.
Dang...listening to the DA, the parents are in deep poo & played a big role in this unfolding.
I understand the sentiment in doing bad things to bad people, I can definitely raise some eye brows with a few of my own suggestions. However I think it's probably helpful to LE and potential victims if the shooter is given the opportunity to give up, if or when reality sets in on them. If you face the shooter with imminent death no matter what, then there is no incentive for them to stop shooting, and it's probably of foremost importance to get them to stop shooting.
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Dang...listening to the DA, the parents are in deep poo & played a big role in this unfolding.
yup charged with 4 counts involuntary manslaughter each
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K50OQ40N6gQ
The parents are being charged too. I have to say, the parents seem more interested in protecting their little monster then they are for getting any justice for his victims, and the kid (per usual) a walking cry for help, and his parents sound like dirt bags. Red flags always go up when they attempt to charge others for thew actions of another person, if the charges as laid out are accurate, it will be interesting to see how that plays out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K50OQ40N6gQ
Adrenaline_6
12-03-21, 12:06
Yea...after they explained the drawing their kid drew to the parents at the meeting, how do you, one, not check his backpack, two, allow him to go back to class in the first place and then three, instead of calling police when they obviously knew what he was going to do but instead text him "don't do it".
Craziness.
Yea...after they explained the drawing their kid drew to the parents at the meeting, how do you, one, not check his backpack, two, allow him to go back to class in the first place and then three, instead of calling police when they obviously knew what he was going to do but instead text him "don't do it".
Craziness.
Now we know why they have refused to talk to investigators, they knew they'd likely be implicated. Parents of the year for sure.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-03-21, 12:54
The parents are liable because they didn't check his backpack for the gun, but the school isn't? If his behavior was so threatening and dangerous, why was he released back to general population, and didn't tell the LEOs?
And realize that all of this is just the tip of the iceberg and we the kids all knew way more than is being reported.
Searching of ammunition!!!!
Boy, that DA is really going out of her way to not throw the school admin under the bus.
One drawing and then a school shooting. I'm sure that this everything that is relevant.
So.... she doesn't want kids under 18 going to firing ranges..... right..... she's not anti-gun.
https://tbdailynews.com/ethan-crumbleys-neglectful-parents-are-the-reason-their-monster-son-killed-4-students-at-oxford-high-school/
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Averageman
12-03-21, 13:02
Doesn't anyone talk to their kids anymore?
Yeah, I would check his backpack, but I would want the school to check the damn thing also, if things were this serious, why wasn't anyone paying attention?
This is either way overblown or nobody gave a F'. I'm guessing nobody cared.
Adrenaline_6
12-03-21, 13:09
The parents are liable because they didn't check his backpack for the gun, but the school isn't? If his behavior was so threatening and dangerous, why was he released back to general population, and didn't tell the LEOs?
And realize that all of this is just the tip of the iceberg and we the kids all knew way more than is being reported.
Searching of ammunition!!!!
Boy, that DA is really going out of her way to not throw the school admin under the bus.
One drawing and then a school shooting. I'm sure that this everything that is relevant.
Oh, I have no doubt the school will get sued too. They aren't exempt. As far as searching for ammo on the net...what's wrong with that? Nothing. The death drawings and notes were the real concern and more than enough to put this thing on full alert status. Parents AND school staff which in turn includes the police. The amount of ball dropping here is mind boggling.
I'll be honest, since I distrust the media immensely, and considering the Rittenhouse prosecution's behavior, I'm not sure I believe they deserve the charge. I come from a family where firearms security and storage is taken lightly, and I still take it pretty lightly; so I'm not very judgmental on that account. The warning signs were there and both the parents and school officials seem to have ignored them.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-03-21, 13:26
They kept the gun in their nightstand by their bed.
That prosecutor said that she didn't think that kids with their parents should be able to shoot at firing ranges... I assume she would say the same thing for private land? So kids can't shoot guns before they are 18. Sure, that's workable. Is she going to indict the state for youth hunting programs.
"I'm not anti-gun" is always followed by something that is anti-gun, or so wildly ill-informed about guns as to be laughable.
Four kids dead and seven injured and it seems like every adult was completely brain dead.
Oh, I have no doubt the school will get sued too. They aren't exempt. As far as searching for ammo on the net...what's wrong with that? Nothing. The death drawings and notes were the real concern and more than enough to put this thing on full alert status. Parents AND school staff which in turn includes the police. The amount of ball dropping here is mind boggling.
If Parkland showed us anything, it showed us no amount of complete failures by everyone involved hardly results in even a loss of jobs. Worse than anything I could have imagined for missed opportunities, incompetency, and fail. However bad you thought it was, it was worse:
https://projects.sun-sentinel.com/2018/sfl-parkland-school-shooting-critical-moments/
Parkland made this event look well run, so unless MI has different laws than FL, I suspect the parents will take the hit for being the terrible parents they appeared to be.
Parkland made this event look well run, so unless MI has different laws than FL, I suspect the parents will take the hit for being the terrible parents they appeared to be.
Looks like the parents will be charged
Looks like the parents will be charged
As I posted page back, they have been charged, and in the rare case, rightly so perhaps if what we are being told is accurate. Point being, don't hold breath thinking any of the officials at that school will even lose their jobs over if Parkland is any example.
As I posted page back, they have been charged
My apologies, too many posts to keep up with
Parents are now on the run...
Shitty people make shitty children. You need a license to fish, nobody is stopping trash bags unfit to care for a houseplant from reproducing.
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OH did not see the post above parents on the run
NOT GOOD
For sure one side still but their side kinda tips the hand they have something to hide
Parents are now on the run...
Instead of getting 15 years and out in 2-3 years, they will get far more now. If the cross state lines, I assume that adds some fed charges too? These are obviously not real bright folks there. Where are they gonna go?
I know we are all here because we like guns, but if you KNOW your kid is a weirdo...maybe take an interest in his video games rather than introducing him to your gun collection to bond.
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Averageman
12-03-21, 15:06
Instead of getting 15 years and out in 2-3 years, they will get far more now. If the cross state lines, I assume that adds some fed charges too? These are obviously not real bright folks there. Where are they gonna go?
Panic and guilt combined make people do desperate things. Honestly wonder how thing would have turned out had there been another handgun in that nightstand?
I know we are all here because we like guns, but if you KNOW your kid is a weirdo...maybe take an interest in his video games rather than introducing him to your gun collection to bond.
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I don't even think it's about "Take an interest in his video games." Some people need to just spend some time together as a family.
Teenagers are really not Human yet, They're the subhuman guy slightly behind the guy carrying the spear in the evolutionary chain diagram. You really have to work at a relationship with them because a lot of the "Handrail's" or acceptable social behaviors have now vanished.
I have nothing abolutely nothing in common with my Son but guitar, but man do we play a lot of guitar when we're together. And we talk, we talk about everything.
I think just talking with and being willing to explain things as are in life from the perspective of an adult to a young man kept us tight.
My Son picked up my pay stub one time and asked me aboiut the math, he wanted to know about my 401 K.
So my Sons about to finish his MBA with a concentraition on Accounting, I'm pretty damned proud.
With the school knowing I do question WHY did they not kick him out and make sure the police were called if worried ?
Should a school also be responsible we are being told your kids are OUR responsibility to teach we need to go after teachers to that say this or school board that say this or admin !
Not saying parents that know and do nothing should not be so both :)
Parents are now on the run...
Not at home is not on the run.
I know we are all here because we like guns, but if you KNOW your kid is a weirdo...maybe take an interest in his video games rather than introducing him to your gun collection to bond.
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Definitely no video games or firearms if they have the propensity to commit violence without legal or moral justification. Take the kid fishing or bowling.
Spending time with your child is the most important thing you can do when they are growing up.
“President Joe Biden said of the shooting, “As we learn the full details, my heart goes out to the families enduring the unimaginable grief of losing a loved one.”
He didn’t seem mournful about the Afghan kids he murdered.
titsonritz
12-03-21, 17:02
Not at home is not on the run.
They are on the run per the Sheriff Michael Bouchard.
School shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley's parents returning after manhunt underway, lawyers say (https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-manhunt-ethan-crumbley-parents)
A statewide "Be on the Lookout" (BOLO) alert was issued for James and Jennifer Crumbley Friday, two police departments first confirmed. U.S. Marshals Service involved.
They are on the run per the Sheriff Michael Bouchard.
School shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley's parents returning after manhunt underway, lawyers say (https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-manhunt-ethan-crumbley-parents)
A statewide "Be on the Lookout" (BOLO) alert was issued for James and Jennifer Crumbley Friday, two police departments first confirmed. U.S. Marshals Service involved.
Attorneys for the parents of Oxford High School shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley say the two are returning to the Oakland County, Michigan, area to be arraigned after authorities asked the public to be on the lookout Friday afternoon.
"The Crumbleys left town on the night of the tragic shooting for their own safety. They are returning to the area to be arraigned. They are not fleeing from law enforcement despite recent comments in media reports," attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman told Fox News.
That's one of the most convoluted articles I've read.
Attorneys for the parents of Oxford High School shooting suspect Ethan Crumbley say the two are returning to the Oakland County, Michigan, area to be arraigned after authorities asked the public to be on the lookout Friday afternoon.
"The Crumbleys left town on the night of the tragic shooting for their own safety. They are returning to the area to be arraigned. They are not fleeing from law enforcement despite recent comments in media reports," attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman told Fox News.
That's one of the most convoluted articles I've read.
Latest shows they were "captured" under a mile from the Canadian border in a warehouse in Detroit shortly after security cameras showed them taking $4k out of an ATM. Never seen an ATM dish out $4k, but...
Supposedly, they were in a hotel out of town which I can understand but if they were caught hiding in a warehouse close to the border their claims they were headed to turn themselves in sounds a bit hinky.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-04-21, 08:48
Latest shows they were "captured" under a mile from the Canadian border in a warehouse in Detroit shortly after security cameras showed them taking $4k out of an ATM. Never seen an ATM dish out $4k, but...
Supposedly, they were in a hotel out of town which I can understand but if they were caught hiding in a warehouse close to the border their claims they were headed to turn themselves in sounds a bit hinky.
You can’t fix dumb but, why would running to Canada get you any kind of protection? It’s not like they’re draftdodgers.
joedirt199
12-04-21, 10:11
$4k would have went farther in mexico than canada
Detroit is on the Canadian border. They didn't really travel very far to get there.
Seems like they should have known something was wrong with their son from the news coverage I'm seeing.
Super sad that this kid didn't get the help he needed before destroying so many lives.
Latest shows they were "captured" under a mile from the Canadian border in a warehouse in Detroit shortly after security cameras showed them taking $4k out of an ATM. Never seen an ATM dish out $4k, but...
Supposedly, they were in a hotel out of town which I can understand but if they were caught hiding in a warehouse close to the border their claims they were headed to turn themselves in sounds a bit hinky.
Doubt they would have used an ATM if trying to hide.
Not giving any opinion on 'parental responsibility' here or what it should or should not be but ask you to ponder this:
When have you EVER heard of the family / parents of any 'minority' child killer / 'suspected' killer being held accountable (charged with anything related to their childs behavior / actions)???
Or the last time you saw a terrorism charge in such a matter?
joedirt199
12-04-21, 12:09
Well since there are laws in place preventing minors from purchasing guns themselves and it appears the parents really didn't do anything to prevent jr from getting their gun, some one has to pay.
St Louis County just enacted an ordnance charge where people can be ticketed for leaving a firearm in an unlocked vehicle since we have so many legal guns ending up in minors' hands because people can't secure their car or bring their handgun inside at night. Groups of teens 13-16 go steal a car then ride around searching neighborhoods with cars parked outside for unlocked doors. Plenty of security and doorbell camera footage of this. Some of the footage shows them standing guard armed while the other is in the vehicle. Hell they even checked my truck at 340 in the morning but since the door was locked they never even looked inside, just on to the next. But my stupid 26 y/o neighbor girl got her glock stole because she left her's unlocked. Glad I didn't get alerted by my doorbell cause I could be the next mean white racist cop who shot poor jr out getting job applications in people's driveways.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-04-21, 12:38
Terrorism is the organized use of violence against civilians to force and impose a political outcome. Violence in public isn’t necessarily terrorism. Let’s not dumb down what terrorism is.
The riots last summer are a far better example of terrorism.
I think the parents got pinched because of the timing of the purchase and posting that it was “the kids” gun.
The one story said they got caught because their car was out front :) hahhahahah
OH they were really stupid parents for sure :)
As long as ALL parents are brought to trial when a kid kills someone in a traffic accident especially DUI for handing the kid car keys or providing them a car !
Cause this prosecute the parent thing is going down a slippery slope IMHO
Does sound like they bought the kid the gun and kid was a idiot from idiot parents and nobody wants to have to take a test to get a gun ?
If they can prove the parents knew the kid was a psycho and was for sure on meds for mental issues then OK bring them in as part of it I am fine with
Again look at the amount of deaths from distracted driving and kids and the parents GAVE the keys to the kids !
This is going to of course be a make example of scare parents go after guns trial for sure
Well since there are laws in place preventing minors from purchasing guns themselves and it appears the parents really didn't do anything to prevent jr from getting their gun, some one has to pay.
St Louis County just enacted an ordnance charge where people can be ticketed for leaving a firearm in an unlocked vehicle since we have so many legal guns ending up in minors' hands because people can't secure their car or bring their handgun inside at night. Groups of teens 13-16 go steal a car then ride around searching neighborhoods with cars parked outside for unlocked doors. Plenty of security and doorbell camera footage of this. Some of the footage shows them standing guard armed while the other is in the vehicle. Hell they even checked my truck at 340 in the morning but since the door was locked they never even looked inside, just on to the next. But my stupid 26 y/o neighbor girl got her glock stole because she left her's unlocked. Glad I didn't get alerted by my doorbell cause I could be the next mean white racist cop who shot poor jr out getting job applications in people's driveways.
And that's how we end up with laws being passed making it illegal to leave a firearm in a car, forcing "common sense" guns laws on the rest of us because d bags like you neighbor don't have any. It' a real problem in FL, and a large % of firearms used in crimes are stolen from - often unlocked no less - vehicles. It's only a matter of time until a storage law gets passed. That's why we can't have nice things.
We are living in a society in which no one considers standing toe to toe with someone who offended them and fighting with their fists. People immediately go to the gun.
We need to identify what's broken and fix it!If you spank your child, you go to jail. If you punch an a hole at work, you go to jail. So people figure if they have to go to jail they might as well make it count.
Not being able to discipline kids is where the problem starts.
Look at this case, the mom texts the kid saying, "please don't do it".
When we were younger our dads would have driven to the school and beat our ass, after the principal beat our ass.
YUP
But for my school about dad principal it would be at school first then at home :)
The text if true I do not trust the media if true is HORRIBLE and yeah so so so so many parents should not be parents sadly
On the gun in car thing ? I can not believe anyone leaves a gun in a car ! That said I do have a gun safe sometimes in the car WHEN I would have to go into a federal building or something odd and would lock it away but that was only for a few minutes IF I could not avoid it
Like jury duty as example I would jut not bother carrying a gun that day ?
WHY would anyone leave one in a car overnight sorry but locked or not IMHO a gun does not belong in vehicle overnight in a drive ? Just seems nuts to me :)
I dont even keep my high end bicycles in the garage :)
If you spank your child, you go to jail. If you punch an a hole at work, you go to jail. So people figure if they have to go to jail they might as well make it count.
Not being able to discipline kids is where the problem starts.
Look at this case, the mom texts the kid saying, "please don't do it".
When we were younger our dads would have driven to the school and beat our ass, after the principal beat our ass.
YUP
But for my school about dad principal it would be at school first then at home :)
The text if true I do not trust the media if true is HORRIBLE and yeah so so so so many parents should not be parents sadly
On the gun in car thing ? I can not believe anyone leaves a gun in a car ! That said I do have a gun safe sometimes in the car WHEN I would have to go into a federal building or something odd and would lock it away but that was only for a few minutes IF I could not avoid it
Like jury duty as example I would jut not bother carrying a gun that day ?
WHY would anyone leave one in a car overnight sorry but locked or not IMHO a gun does not belong in vehicle overnight in a drive ? Just seems nuts to me :)
I dont even keep my high end bicycles in the garage :)
If you spank your child, you go to jail. If you punch an a hole at work, you go to jail. So people figure if they have to go to jail they might as well make it count.
Not being able to discipline kids is where the problem starts.
Look at this case, the mom texts the kid saying, "please don't do it".
When we were younger our dads would have driven to the school and beat our ass, after the principal beat our ass.
YUP
But for my school about dad principal it would be at school first then at home :)
The text if true I do not trust the media if true is HORRIBLE and yeah so so so so many parents should not be parents sadly
On the gun in car thing ? I can not believe anyone leaves a gun in a car ! That said I do have a gun safe sometimes in the car WHEN I would have to go into a federal building or something odd and would lock it away but that was only for a few minutes IF I could not avoid it
Like jury duty as example I would jut not bother carrying a gun that day ?
WHY would anyone leave one in a car overnight sorry but locked or not IMHO a gun does not belong in vehicle overnight in a drive ? Just seems nuts to me :)
I dont even keep my high end bicycles in the garage :)I live about 40 miles from where this school is located, so all the local stations are covering it.
Last night they showed a press release with the prosecutor at a podium reading the text messages. She said they called in the US Marshalls to find the parents because they were missing at the time involuntary manslaughter charges were filed against both parents.
Doubt they would have used an ATM if trying to hide.
If you're betting on common sense, stay away from the tables.
Considering they parked their car out front a abandon building they were in ?
Doubt they would have used an ATM if trying to hide.?
Terrorism is the organized use of violence against civilians to force and impose a political outcome. Violence in public isn’t necessarily terrorism. Let’s not dumb down what terrorism is.
The riots last summer are a far better example of terrorism.
I think the parents got pinched because of the timing of the purchase and posting that it was “the kids” gun.
It was originally state sponsored too.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/history-of-the-word-terrorism
And that's how we end up with laws being passed making it illegal to leave a firearm in a car, forcing "common sense" guns laws on the rest of us because d bags like you neighbor don't have any. It' a real problem in FL, and a large % of firearms used in crimes are stolen from - often unlocked no less - vehicles. It's only a matter of time until a storage law gets passed. That's why we can't have nice things.
What if they steal your car and use THAT to kill a lot of people?
Yeah, Your fault entirely because you did not 'fill in blanks'.
Yep you could have prevented all of those deaths 'caused by YOUR car' if you had say - used one of those boot things on your wheel after parking, parked in a better / safer area, paid for security to guard your car while you were away from it, had a better and more secure anti theft system installed, on and on and on...
Instead of blaming the criminal here you want to use the logic of the left the same exact way they do to shift the blame.
As long as ALL parents are brought to trial when a kid kills someone in a traffic accident especially DUI for handing the kid car keys or providing them a car !
Cause this prosecute the parent thing is going down a slippery slope IMHO
Apparently many here seem to support prosecuting these parents. They can't seem to see the slope they are about to go down...
joedirt199
12-04-21, 18:52
Problem with the stolen car analogy is most stolen cars are preventable, except early 2000 ford f250s, those you can steal with a flat head screwdriver in the ignition.
Most of our stolen cars are left warming, running in the driveway, running outside a gas station while the idiot driver picks up cigarettes and a huge soda, delivery driver with running car, keys left in unlocked vehicle in driveway or open garage door. Basically a little effort on the victim could have prevented it by taking keys out and locking doors. Very few car jackings now days when you just have to sit outside a gas station and take your pick of vehicles. I often contemplate locking the keys in the car for them so it doesn't get stolen but then I am the bad guy.
Most of our stolen cars are left warming, running in the driveway, running outside a gas station while the idiot driver picks up cigarettes and a huge soda, delivery driver with running car, keys left in unlocked vehicle in driveway or open garage door. Basically a little effort on the victim could have prevented it by taking keys out and locking doors.
So is the owner liable for any damages caused by his stolen car or is the CRIMINAL who stole it solely to be blamed?
Good defense for criminals 'Well, I wouldn't have been able to steal it if he had locked it up better'.
Apparently many here seem to support prosecuting these parents. They can't seem to see the slope they are about to go down...
well seems you did :) we are on this bobsled together I reckon few others to OH you want to drive cause this slope/track is a dangerous mess :)
joedirt199
12-04-21, 20:05
So is the owner liable for any damages caused by his stolen car or is the CRIMINAL who stole it solely to be blamed?
Good defense for criminals 'Well, I wouldn't have been able to steal it if he had locked it up better'.
Sadly, from the time I spent working the courts and transporting these clowns to and from court, the judges feel that the good people should no better when they break the law and the drug addicts never knew any better because they were raised like shit and suffer from a disease, addiction. Can't say I ever caught a drug addiction from a dirty door knob or hand rail. So they get break after break to get their life back on track only to go back out into the world to cause more problems.
Averageman
12-04-21, 20:28
At what age do our youth become adults?
I ask because I hear 24 year olds being called "Kids".
Homie don't play that, I think at 13, your responcable at 15 you totally own it. I can't imagine killing someone and watching your parents take it up the Keister because you F'ed up.
well seems you did :) we are on this bobsled together I reckon few others to OH you want to drive cause this slope/track is a dangerous mess :)
I do not support going after these parents for anything exactly because of the 'slippery slope' you mentioned.
It will never stop with these leftists. They will blame the parents, then the company that made the gun, then the dealer that sold the gun, then the people that made the backpack he carried the gun in, and it will never stop until ALL gun rights are gone.
The kid is the one that should be punished here.
I can see why the parents were charged in this incident. Failure To Parent played a significant role in most of the school shootings over the past 25 years.
Unfortunately, when tradition, family responsibility and responsibility to community are no longer taught in the family unit, society has to take over when parents have failed.
If my son had violent tendencies, acted out all too often in school and recently made violent threats which resulted in his suspension from school, I would not purchase a new handgun to reward his bad behavior.
Take care of business at home.
titsonritz
12-04-21, 21:30
In this particular case I think the parents should be charged, first time for everything.
What if they steal your car and use THAT to kill a lot of people?
Yeah, Your fault entirely because you did not 'fill in blanks'.
Yep you could have prevented all of those deaths 'caused by YOUR car' if you had say - used one of those boot things on your wheel after parking, parked in a better / safer area, paid for security to guard your car while you were away from it, had a better and more secure anti theft system installed, on and on and on...
Instead of blaming the criminal here you want to use the logic of the left the same exact way they do to shift the blame.
If you're gonna leave guns in your vehicle then make them out of sight and LOCK THE DOORS. If your vehicle, despite being locked, is broken into then to me it is the same as having your house broken into.
In this particular case I think the parents should be charged, first time for everything.
Rest assured that if they are convicted it will not be the last time.
Once Pandoras box is opened all bets will be off going forward. Once you give the left this 'inch' they WILL be asking for a mile more.
Rest assured that if they are convicted it will not be the last time.
Once Pandoras box is opened all bets will be off going forward. Once you give the left this 'inch' they WILL be asking for a mile more.
Yep. I don't like the manslaughter charge one bit, unless they can prove they encouraged the kid to do the shooting. Otherwise, it's a very slippery slope that I am extremely uncomfortable with.
The Dumb Gun Collector
12-05-21, 00:50
Looks like horse poo to me.
1) Parents bought gun for 15 year old. BUT... Under Michigan law, that is not illegal.
2) Mom took him to the shooting range. BUT... Under MI law that is favored.
3) Child had total access and the gun was for him. BUT MI la allows a minor to own a handgun, but with exceptions may not carry in public. BUT... He didn't and was not known to until that fateful day.
4) School teacher caught him researching ammunition on his phone during class. Ok.
5) Teacher saw a horrible shooting picture and notified the office, who called parents in. Admin had the murderer's bookbag. Parents attended the meeting. School said 48 hours to get counseling. Neither school nor parents looked IN THE DAMN BAG!!! Kid goes on a shooting spree after lunch with the gun that was in his bookbag!
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-05-21, 10:48
My wife brings up a point: How can you charge the kid as an adult, but charge his parents for allowing a minor to have access to a gun? Is the shooter a minor or an adult???
Greg above puts it most succinctly and clearly. I still don't get how he went from a single drawing to a mass shooter in under 4 hours. Something is missing.
At what age do our youth become adults?
I ask because I hear 24 year olds being called "Kids".
Homie don't play that, I think at 13, your responcable at 15 you totally own it. I can't imagine killing someone and watching your parents take it up the Keister because you F'ed up.In Michigan they consider a female "able to consent" at 17, but a male the age is 18.
So there are no standards because the idiot that did the school shooting can't consent to sex, vote, buy cigarettes, firearms, etc.
Its all made up as they fly apparently.
I know this because one of our neighbors had a 16 year old daughter with a 30 year old guy. They called the cops and that is what they were told.
Looks like horse poo to me.
1) Parents bought gun for 15 year old. BUT... Under Michigan law, that is not illegal.
2) Mom took him to the shooting range. BUT... Under MI law that is favored.
3) Child had total access and the gun was for him. BUT MI la allows a minor to own a handgun, but with exceptions may not carry in public. BUT... He didn't and was not known to until that fateful day.
4) School teacher caught him researching ammunition on his phone during class. Ok.
5) Teacher saw a horrible shooting picture and notified the office, who called parents in. Admin had the murderer's bookbag. Parents attended the meeting. School said 48 hours to get counseling. Neither school nor parents looked IN THE DAMN BAG!!! Kid goes on a shooting spree after lunch with the gun that was in his bookbag!
Are you sure a minor can own a handgun in Michigan?
I live here and think you must be 18 to "own" a handgun in this state.
Michigan requires registration of handguns, here is the law.
MCL 28.422
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(qsebuzou3yv00udwg1ysv2ws))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-422
I could be wrong, so please provide any info you have that contradicts the above MCL.
TIA
ETA:
A "purchase permit or CPL" is required even if you gift the handgun to a family member. That is part of the registration scam.
I know this because one of our neighbors had a 16 year old daughter with a 30 year old guy. They called the cops and that is what they were told.
Police frequently do not know the technical details of the law and are under no obligation to answer you correctly even if they do.
My wife brings up a point: How can you charge the kid as an adult, but charge his parents for allowing a minor to have access to a gun? Is the shooter a minor or an adult???
Greg above puts it most succinctly and clearly. I still don't get how he went from a single drawing to a mass shooter in under 4 hours. Something is missing.
Or commentary from the media has been skewed to get many to believe a particular way.
Reporting 'some' of the facts is not the same as reporting 'all' of the facts...
Are you sure a minor can own a handgun in Michigan?
I live here and think you must be 18 to "own" a handgun in this state.
Michigan requires registration of handguns, here is the law.
MCL 28.422
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(qsebuzou3yv00udwg1ysv2ws))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-422
I could be wrong, so please provide any info you have that contradicts the above MCL.
TIA
ETA:
A "purchase permit or CPL" is required even if you gift the handgun to a family member. That is part of the registration scam.
My read on it is that giving it to their son was fine. As long as they were at home, at the range, or otherwise using it safely under supervision, things were kosher.
Once he left the house with the gun in his backpack, all bets are off but that's him violating the law, not the parents. I don't believe Michigan has a safe storage law.
Further down on your link is this part:
This section does not apply to a person who is younger than the age required under subsection (3)(b) and who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:
(a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that pistol.
(b) The person is at a recognized target range.
(c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.
(d) The person is in the physical presence and under the direct supervision of any of the following:
(i) The person's parent.
(ii) The person's guardian.
This is a pretty scary path to go down in terms of parental liability.
My read on it is that giving it to their son was fine up until the point he put it in his backpack and left the house for school. But that's on him, not the parents.
Further down on your link is this part:
This section does not apply to a person who is younger than the age required under subsection (3)(b) and who possesses a pistol if all of the following conditions apply:
(a) The person is not otherwise prohibited from possessing that pistol.
(b) The person is at a recognized target range.
(c) The person possesses the pistol for the purpose of target practice or instruction in the safe use of a pistol.
(d) The person is in the physical presence and under the direct supervision of any of the following:
(i) The person's parent.
(ii) The person's guardian.
This is a pretty scary path to go down in terms of parental liability.
Doesn't what you added say the gun needs to be in the presence if an adult?
I get the taking the kid to the range etc, everyone does that, but the persin i quoted said MI law allows a kid to own a gun. If the parents leave and go to work, that eliminated the adult being present, doesn't it? And they aren't at a range for instructions or target practice, so b & c are automatically off the table, meaning they don't meet all the following.
Doesn't what you added say the gun needs to be in the presence if an adult?
I get the taking the kid to the range etc, everyone does that, but the persin i quoted said MI law allows a kid to own a gun. If the parents leave and go to work, that eliminated the adult being present, doesn't it? And they aren't at a range for instructions or target practice, so b & c are automatically off the table, meaning they don't meet all the following.
My read is that he can "own" the gun. What he can legally do with it outside his home at his age is a different issue. You can own a car without a drivers license. What you can do with said car is a different topic.
My read is that he can "own" the gun. What he can legally do with it outside his home at his age is a different issue. You can own a car without a drivers license. What you can do with said car is a different topic.I'm not sure because of the line that says "if all the following apply".
As I said if the parents go to work, that makes him be without a parent or guardian present, so it would be illegal, wouldn't it?
This is thinking the minor and gun are at home (with parents at work), we agree he can't take it to school.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-05-21, 13:46
There is the part where he shot people…
I'm not sure because of the line that says "if all the following apply".
As I said if the parents go to work, that makes him be without a parent or guardian present, so it would be illegal, wouldn't it?
This is thinking the minor and gun are at home (with parents at work), we agree he can't take it to school.
Michigan has no safe storage law. In the privacy of their own home, him possessing the firearm isn't illegal.
Saying the boy "owned" the firearm is semantics. Does he legally? I assume not as it's not registered to him and he's not of age to accept transfer, but if dad says this is yours, it's his. Again, what he can or cannot do legally is a different issue.
I "gave" my son my old truck. Legally, it's still mine. I have the pink slip, pay the insurance, etc. When's he's able, we'll legally make it his, but in our house we call it his truck.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-05-21, 14:10
It seems like the closest thing would be giving a drink to a drunk that then killed someone- but no one tries to kill someone by drunk driving, usually.
Sounds like a DA wanting to run for a congress seat or something. Make a name for herself, doesn’t understand guns- and hopes others don’t either. We are back to a Kenosha type argument- people are dead so they must be guilty of something.
Michigan has no safe storage law. In the privacy of their own home, him possessing the firearm isn't illegal.But him "owning" the firearm doesn't meet the requirements you listed above.
Ownership is the point I'm trying to get the answer for.
The guy I quoted said a minor can own a firearm, if he is correct then it's the minors gun so the parents have no responsibility.
joedirt199
12-05-21, 19:38
Missouri has some of the same messed up laws. Minor can't purchase a handgun till 21. Minor can be in possession of a handgun and be legal. Handgun can be gifted to a minor. They find ways to make so many laws that contradict each other that they cancel themselves out or people find ways around them.
Ownership is a moot point if the state does not title or register an object. I could give a newborn child a firearm and say he owns it. It really means nothing.
Adrenaline_6
12-06-21, 07:52
Bottom line...this will slowly disappear.
No narrative to push. All white, middle income. No AR. Nothing right wing or somehow Trump related.
DOA.
Michigan has no safe storage law. In the privacy of their own home, him possessing the firearm isn't illegal.
Saying the boy "owned" the firearm is semantics. Does he legally? I assume not as it's not registered to him and he's not of age to accept transfer, but if dad says this is yours, it's his. Again, what he can or cannot do legally is a different issue.
I "gave" my son my old truck. Legally, it's still mine. I have the pink slip, pay the insurance, etc. When's he's able, we'll legally make it his, but in our house we call it his truck.
Events like that are how you end up with safe storage laws.
Events like that are how you end up with safe storage laws.
I'm sure there will be a push for that.
Looks like horse poo to me.
1) Parents bought gun for 15 year old. BUT... Under Michigan law, that is not illegal.
2) Mom took him to the shooting range. BUT... Under MI law that is favored.
3) Child had total access and the gun was for him. BUT MI la allows a minor to own a handgun, but with exceptions may not carry in public. BUT... He didn't and was not known to until that fateful day.
I checked the Michigan Department of Natural Resources website and found this "A person must be at least 18 years of age to hunt with (possess) a handgun."
What does Michigan law say about a person under the age of 18 possessing a handgun when outside the direct supervision of
parents or guardians?
In my state a person under the age of 18 can only possess a handgun when they are hunting deer during handgun deer season. I am not familiar with the restrictions on handgun possession by a juvenile in Michigan and hope you can clear things up.
I'm sure there will be a push for that.
No doubt and they gave them all the ammo (no pun intended) to justify it to the anti gun types. You can't regulate common sense, but it's not hard to understand why some think you can, and people who apply no common sense to their gun ownership really fu$@s us all short term and long.
No doubt and they gave them all the ammo (no pun intended) to justify it to the anti gun types. You can't regulate common sense, but it's not hard to understand why some think you can, and people who apply no common sense to their gun ownership really fu$@s us all short term and long.
Ain't that the truth. A shooting buddy asked me to go to the range with him and meet his grandson. He was trying to connect with the kid and thought taking him to the range and teaching him how to shoot would be a good way of doing that. The plan was to teach the kid how to shoot handguns and rifles.
He told me the kid was a disciplinary problem, he would not listen to his parents or teachers and had a history of making threats and being aggressive with other people at his Junior High School. He also told me the kid didn't always follow grandpa's instructions when he was at the house for a visit. He wanted to try to turn the kid around before he wound up in prison.
I suggested he take the kid bowling or fishing and he did not like that suggestion. I told him there was no way on earth I was going to help him teach the kid to shoot and asked him to let me know when they were going to be at the range, so I could be at least 20 miles from the gun club on that day. After a couple of days, he reached out to me and told me he decided it might not be a good idea to teach his grandson how to shoot.
I've seen responsible parents teach responsible children as young as 8 years old how to shoot, which I think is a fantastic idea. If a kid has a history of being aggressive and threatening people, I think it's a terrible idea. The shooting community needs to police its own.
Ain't that the truth. A shooting buddy asked me to go to the range with him and meet his grandson. He was trying to connect with the kid and thought taking him to the range and teaching him how to shoot would be a good way of doing that. The plan was to teach the kid how to shoot handguns and rifles.
He told me the kid was a disciplinary problem, he would not listen to his parents or teachers and had a history of making threats and being aggressive with other people at his Junior High School. He also told me the kid didn't always follow grandpa's instructions when he was at the house for a visit. He wanted to try to turn the kid around before he wound up in prison.
I suggested he take the kid bowling or fishing and he did not like that suggestion. I told him there was no way on earth I was going to help him teach the kid to shoot and asked him to let me know when they were going to be at the range, so I could be at least 20 miles from the gun club on that day. After a couple of days, he reached out to me and told me he decided it might not be a good idea to teach his grandson how to shoot.
I've seen responsible parents teach responsible children as young as 8 years old how to shoot, which I think is a fantastic idea. If a kid has a history of being aggressive and threatening people, I think it's a terrible idea. The shooting community needs to police its own.That, right there. Not everybody needs to enjoy guns and shooting. There are plenty of other activities for them.
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Ain't that the truth. A shooting buddy asked me to go to the range with him and meet his grandson. He was trying to connect with the kid and thought taking him to the range and teaching him how to shoot would be a good way of doing that. The plan was to teach the kid how to shoot handguns and rifles.
He told me the kid was a disciplinary problem, he would not listen to his parents or teachers and had a history of making threats and being aggressive with other people at his Junior High School. He also told me the kid didn't always follow grandpa's instructions when he was at the house for a visit. He wanted to try to turn the kid around before he wound up in prison.
I suggested he take the kid bowling or fishing and he did not like that suggestion. I told him there was no way on earth I was going to help him teach the kid to shoot and asked him to let me know when they were going to be at the range, so I could be at least 20 miles from the gun club on that day. After a couple of days, he reached out to me and told me he decided it might not be a good idea to teach his grandson how to shoot.
I've seen responsible parents teach responsible children as young as 8 years old how to shoot, which I think is a fantastic idea. If a kid has a history of being aggressive and threatening people, I think it's a terrible idea. The shooting community needs to police its own.
That is a situation yeah NO reminds me of my fav cartoon artist
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/70/61/f1/7061f199edf4a520ee976c8917b11b67--nature-comics.jpg
Ownership is a moot point if the state does not title or register an object. I could give a newborn child a firearm and say he owns it. It really means nothing.The state the shooting happened in does require registration if handguns.
I'm sure there will be a push for that.There has been a bill for it every two years for the last decade. Fortunately we have had enough humans in the legislature to not let it out of committee. That is slowly changing here.
Side note the dumbocrat Secretary of State decided a few weeks ago, said it is Ok to put an X for gender on your drivers license or state ID if you're confused about which one you are.
That is the direction this state is headed.
The state the shooting happened in does require registration if handguns.
Again, it get back to semantics. They can tell the boy this is for you, but we know it’s not legal to do that right now. It’s not registered to the boy. Legally, It belongs to the father.
After my son passed his Cub Scout training program for firearms, I got him a Rossi pump action 22 rifle. I told him it was for him. It was obviously not going to belong to him at his age, but it was “his”.
Again, it get back to semantics. They can tell the boy this is for you, but we know it’s not legal to do that right now. It’s not registered to the boy. Legally, It belongs to the father.
After my son passed his Cub Scout training program for firearms, I got him a Rossi pump action 22 rifle. I told him it was for him. It was obviously not going to belong to him at his age, but it was “his”.Legally, "own" has a meaning.
You can say semantics, but it isn't.
Your son doesn't own the truck you referred to because the title isn't in his name. Just because you say its his doesn't mean it is.
If you and your wife die tomorrow and have no will, you saying the truck is his means zero, it will go to probate court to be decided on who gets it like all other assets. If you owe anybody money they could very well end up owning the truck you claim to be your sons.
If the kid actually owned the gun, like you guys claim is legal, then dad wouldn't be in the discussion.
Legally, "own" has a meaning.
You can say semantics, but it isn't.
Your son doesn't own the truck you referred to because the title isn't in his name. Just because you say its his doesn't mean it is.
If you and your wife die tomorrow and have no will, you saying the truck is his means zero, it will go to probate court to be decided on who gets it like all other assets. If you owe anybody money they could very well end up owning the truck you claim to be your sons.
If the kid actually owned the gun, like you guys claim is legal, then dad wouldn't be in the discussion.
I’ve never said the boy legally owned the gun. I don’t think he can, legally. Possessing it in his own home is a different matter. Once he steps outside and he’s not with an adult, it’s an issue. I don’t think I’ve been unclear on that.
The state the shooting happened in does require registration if handguns. Then since it must be registered to the parents, it doesn't belong to the kid. Simple as that. It's just a narrative the press wants to push... OMG people buy guns for their kids !! Still not a good reason to charge manslaughter for, but I would understand a civil case against them.
Bottom line...this will slowly disappear.
No narrative to push. All white, middle income. No AR. Nothing right wing or somehow Trump related.
DOA.
The leftists are already pushing the fact that the mom was a "Trumper"..
Then since it must be registered to the parents, it doesn't belong to the kid. Simple as that. It's just a narrative the press wants to push... OMG people buy guns for their kids !! Still not a good reason to charge manslaughter for, but I would understand a civil case against them.
The leftists are already pushing the fact that the mom was a "Trumper"..
In civil court, I think they will have their asses handed to them. The school too would be nice as well since we’ve tossed the parents on the clink. I just really question the criminal arrest and bond based on existing law in Michigan. That part is scary.
I’ve never said the boy legally owned the gun. I don’t think he can, legally. Possessing it in his own home is a different matter. Once he steps outside and he’s not with an adult, it’s an issue. I don’t think I’ve been unclear on that.Go back and read post 105 number 3. (Not your post)
That is the the post that got you and I into this debate.
I replied to 105 and you disagreed and gave examples from from reply (link) that didn't "always" apply (he was not at a range, parents aren't always present, etc) so I'm still saying he can "own" a gun per MI law like post 105 claims.
You and I are debating just to debate.
Go back and read post 105 number 3. (Not your post)
That is the the post that got you and I into this debate.
I replied to 105 and you disagreed and gave examples from from reply (link) that didn't "always" apply (he was not at a range, parents aren't always present, etc) so I'm still saying he can "own" a gun per MI law like post 105 claims.
You and I are debating just to debate.
Gotcha.
I think the issue becomes the debate over own versus “own”. Did he really own the gun? No. I don’t think he legally can. Did he “own” the gun because his parents said it was for him? Very likely. Not unusual. Not illegal either. Provided all the other points listed before are followed. Under supervision, at a range, at training, not in public, etc., there is nothing that says he can’t possess it.
Gotcha.
I think the issue becomes the debate over own versus “own”. Did he really own the gun? No. I don’t think he legally can. Did he “own” the gun because his parents said it was for him? Very likely. Not unusual. Not illegal either. Provided all the other points listed before are followed. Under supervision, at a range, at training, not in public, etc., there is nothing that says he can’t possess it.I would hit the "like" button if it were available on thus post.
Averageman
12-06-21, 13:45
So the parents will go to jail for something their child did?
And yet Alec Baldwin is still walking free.
Averageman
12-06-21, 18:09
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbwGmju15lg
Now they're going after the school administration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbwGmju15lg
Now they're going after the school administration.
I think that's a case for civil court. A criminal case would be nearly impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury.
titsonritz
12-07-21, 19:07
Looks like the parents got themselves fancy, high dollar defense attorneys for themselves and stick their kid with a court appointed attorney. I guess it is not big surprise since they tried to make a run for it and leave the kid twisting in the wind.
Oxford school shooting: Ethan Crumbley appointed lawyer by court after parents only hired their own (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/ethan-crumbley-oxford-school-shooting-b1971470.html)
Averageman
12-07-21, 19:23
I think that's a case for civil court. A criminal case would be nearly impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury.
The whole argument comes down to "Why didn't anyone look in the bag?"
The whole argument comes down to "Why didn't anyone look in the bag?"
Who says they didn't?
Averageman
12-07-21, 19:51
Who says they didn't?
Nobody did, not the parents or the administrators, they were called in, they came in and nobody looked in his bag.
If people were concerned about the boy's behavior, why did his parents allow him access to firearms?
If people were concerned about the boy's behavior, why did his parents allow him access to firearms?Because his parents are shitbags, as evidenced by their crotch fruit killer, and their attempt to flee.
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Averageman
12-07-21, 20:04
If people were concerned about the boy's behavior, why did his parents allow him access to firearms?
I think they thought securing it in the nightstand was good enough.
I live alone, I've got firearms all over the house, but it wasn't that way when I was raising my Son. Then everything was always secured.
The most important part I learned working in the retail gun industry, was that not every gun owner is a friend of mine. Growing up I thought because we shared a common interest we shared a mindset and an attitude about safety. Not the case whatsoever, you can't work on the other side of the counter and not think about who shouldn't be allowed to own guns. These people suck, they probably shouldn't have been able to buy a gun or have a kid. Unfortunately one is heavily restricted and the other has no restrictions whatsoever. They did both, did a poor job with both, and now innocent people are dead.
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Nobody did, not the parents or the administrators, they were called in, they came in and nobody looked in his bag.
How is that known at this time? I would think the parents and administrators would not be talking about this, just to cover their asses. How do we know he had the gun in his bag, and not hidden somewhere else?
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