View Full Version : Safety Lever Question
During the past few weeks, I have seen three AR safety lever issues. None have been with my guns. I don't have nor like ambi safeties. All, but one, of my builds have the standard one piece safety that comes in parts kits from BCM or SOL. I assume they are made by Schmid. They work and I have never had an issue. To me they are part of my KISS thought. I did install a FC Q lever safety with the button on the off side. I have not run that lower hard so have no opinion.
In all three cases, a lever had come off. I assume if ambi, then the safety could be operated with the other side? One wasn't an ambi, so it was an issue. One locked on safe and one was on fire. In all three cases, I was approached and asked if I had tools, so I did look at the gun and the issue. So, with that said, are these aftermarket, ambi, bigger and or "better" lever , short 60/45 degree etc safeties more of a fad? Are they really appropriate for a hard use weapon or just tactical testical BS? Or perhaps game gun appropriate? Looking for thoughts and to be educated.
Cheers, Steve
Inkslinger
12-03-21, 17:23
I have no ambi safeties on any of my rifles. I have no particular reason for doing so. I can’t say I’ve ever heard them being problematic. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess this was an issue caused by the people who installed them and not a problem with the safety. It’s possible not knowing who manufactured them, they may just be low quality junk.
titsonritz
12-03-21, 20:24
What were the safeties? I've not had any problems with several BAD-ASS & BAD-CASS as well as a few Talons. Recently installed a FCD Q lever and think I might like it the best and can't see one of those levers coming off regardless of how hard the use.
I’m the same way as OP. Only Schmid single side safeties with the lever that reaches the middle of the drum.
Ambi safeties get in my way and the fiddly ones with all the lever choices that are held together with locktite can be maddening to remove.
As far as install, I have no info. In regards to what make, I think one was a radian and not sure about the other two. I want my manual of arms to be identical on my guns, so I rarely have different parts. I have one lower that is my test lower. That is the one that has the FC Q lever. I truly enjoy talking with Roger and like his products. Almost all my lowers run his ABC. The jury is still out on the Q lever. I need to give it more time. However, with my observations over the past few weeks, I think the KISS philosophy will keep me with the simple, robust, non multiple piece safety. To me, the multiple piece safety--whether ambi or not--short stroke or not, it just introduces possible issues.
Come to think of it, I have seen issues during competitions with safeties, especially the short stroke ones. Nonetheless, I am open to be educated and look forward to those more experienced. Frankly, I don't know what I don't know.
Cheers, Steve
Leaveammoforme
12-03-21, 23:50
I was chatting with a guy after a geared up run at a match a couple weeks ago. Out of the blue he goes "My selector is gone". I looked down at his rifle as he was wiggling the grip like a slinky. Grip screw came loose and detent lost friction against selector.
I always used that possible scenario as the reasoning behind using ambi-selectors. First time I've ever actually seen it play out though. Any crack head can find a flat head to tighten a grip screw. A selector becoming part of the ecosystem is a bit more of an issue.
This is an "upgraded" selector detent that comes with the BAD-CASS.
https://i.postimg.cc/yNYJsrs9/20210904-205054.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Selector was getting mushy in "Safe" and I trucked on. I eventually started finding my rifle on "Fire" after it was jostled around.
Anything can fail if it wasn't installed correctly or maintained appropriately.
Current issued M4A1s come with ambi selectors, and have for years. 416, also. Beyond that, I’ve only used a couple other brands, and I’ve not had them fall apart. Many have the left lever one-piece with the center, and then the right lever gets attached after that portion. That type would continue to function like a normal non-ambi selector in the event that the lever falls off. I wouldn’t want one that has both levers (or the single left lever) screwed on, for the reasons in the OP.
I don’t own any short throw levers, but I’ve got a dude I shoot with weekly that has one. Seems fine. I’d bet they are not all created equally. I’ll try one from FCD eventually.
Battle arms development and radian, never had any issues.
This is an "upgraded" selector detent that comes with the BAD-CASS.
https://i.postimg.cc/yNYJsrs9/20210904-205054.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Selector was getting mushy in "Safe" and I trucked on. I eventually started finding my rifle on "Fire" after it was jostled around.
Anything can fail if it wasn't installed correctly or maintained appropriately.
I had the exact same thing happen with a BAD-CASS detent as well. It was ground into a chisel shape just like your picture.
As far as ambi's go, I like them. Especially on my hunting gun, I like easy access to the safety when I make a left handed shot. Doable without, but easier with. Other than the detent, I've never had any problems or had any levers come off. I do blue loctite the heck out of the screws though.
titsonritz
12-04-21, 20:43
In regards to what make, I think one was a radian and not sure about the other two.
It shouldn't be a Radian Talon unless it was install incorrectly, they use is spring loaded detent to secure, no screws to come loose.
It shouldn't be a Radian Talon unless it was install incorrectly, they use is spring loaded detent to secure, no screws to come loose.
+ 1 on this. I do think the older Radians used a different attachment method? And the FCD selectors are pinned in place for that extra level of reassurance. I would trust either, when installed correctly, to be at low risk for coming loose.
Perhaps I am not asking the right question. What, if anything, do these aftermarket selectors/safeties bring to the table that makes them a better answer than a simple schmid, one piece, single sided safety lever? I do understand the reason some folks require/need an ambi. I am talking about a hard use, self defense rifle. I understand using stuff for game guns.
I can articulate many positive attributes to the above selector and see no negative issues. Even the schmid selector that is threaded on the right side so an ambi lever can be attached has the same positive issues. So I suppose I am looking for what I don't know. How are these aftermarket selectors a better mousetrap?
Cheers, Steve
LPK’s matter, which is why I limit my selection to:
Colt
SIONICS
DD
SOLGW
Springs, detents and pins aren’t the place to save money.
I also don’t use unproven designer stuff that, in some cases, simply offers opportunity for more to go wrong.
Perhaps I am not asking the right question. What, if anything, do these aftermarket selectors/safeties bring to the table that makes them a better answer than a simple schmid, one piece, single sided safety lever? I do understand the reason some folks require/need an ambi. I am talking about a hard use, self defense rifle. I understand using stuff for game guns.
I can articulate many positive attributes to the above selector and see no negative issues. Even the schmid selector that is threaded on the right side so an ambi lever can be attached has the same positive issues. So I suppose I am looking for what I don't know. How are these aftermarket selectors a better mousetrap?
Cheers, Steve
These are MY reasons. I think it comes down to personal preferences. There is no right answer
1.) I don't like to break my grip to engage the safety. Using a good ambi lets me do that with my trigger finger
2.) While shooting off handed I can then do the same and not have to change my personal manual of arms as a result.
If neither of these things are important to you then amib safeties are probably not for you.
titsonritz
12-07-21, 15:18
I'm left-handed so I ambi my guns.
1.) I don't like to break my grip to engage the safety. Using a good ambi lets me do that with my trigger finger
That's why (as a Right hander) I hate Ambi. The right side hits my hand when I'm trying to click the safety off. I actually just end up using the lefty (right side) lever with my trigger finger because I can't smoothly operate the thumb side without breaking my grip any way.
Now that I think it through... I couldn't hate ambi safeties any more. :rolleyes:
titsonritz
12-07-21, 17:18
That's why (as a Right hander) I hate Ambi. The right side hits my hand when I'm trying to click the safety off. I actually just end up using the lefty (right side) lever with my trigger finger because I can't smoothly operate the thumb side without breaking my grip any way.
Now that I think it through... I couldn't hate ambi safeties any more. :rolleyes:
The short throw safeties along with short levers and/or offset levers like those on the FCD/SOLGW Quick help solve this problem.
https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ASF-50Q-semi-auto-50-degrees-q-levers_p_229.html
That's why (as a Right hander) I hate Ambi. The right side hits my hand when I'm trying to click the safety off. I actually just end up using the lefty (right side) lever with my trigger finger because I can't smoothly operate the thumb side without breaking my grip any way.
Now that I think it through... I couldn't hate ambi safeties any more. :rolleyes:
Yes. All of that.
I loathe ambi safeties. I have to open my hand to use it. Even more awkward when I do it with my left hand.
Want to flip the rifle while it’s safe and hanging so the safety doesn’t accidentally get moved? You ain’t doin’ that with an ambi.
I’m a lefty and I shoot Colt USGI ambi safeties all the time. No issues. I believe they’re made by Schmid but have dual detent slots so they can be flipped and the short lever can be used on either side so as not to interfere with the trigger finger. I have bought standard Schmid ambi that can’t be flipped so you’re stuck with a long lever on the left side which defeats the purpose for me.
The short throw safeties along with short levers and/or offset levers like those on the FCD/SOLGW Quick help solve this problem.
https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ASF-50Q-semi-auto-50-degrees-q-levers_p_229.html
This. Plus it also helps to use the 50 degree safety and not the 90. Along with a short lever the only time I touch it is when I want to. No interference on either side. Again, there is no right or wrong, just whatever works for you.
I wrote about this quite a bit during my days at BAD, finally posted something on our site so I can just copy and paste link: https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/asf-levers-configuration.html
This doesn't apply to just our ASF. , this is general information about ambi safeties.
Hi Roger, great to see you jump in. As you may recall we discussed a few things about the safety. I have the cap on my right side. Hence, it alleviates the issue I have with ambi safeties. After the holidays, I plan on running the test lower more. My initial run of it seems to show it has no reliability issues and the roll pin lever is solid. Hence, time will tell if the Q lever feels better to me running it hard. If so, than damn, I guess I will need 20, but the jury is still out. Have a great holiday.
I also want to thank everyone else who has replied.
Cheers, Steve
We have been asked to make an ASF lever that looks like KAC's with the bottom scalloped. We've always declined, the lever feels great on the trigger finger side when the safety is on SEMI/FIRE, but if you try to use it, it's neither here nor there and difficult to rotate.
This isn't a criticism for KAC's lever, KAC deserves a lot of credit for the forward thinking on ergonomics way back when nobody was paying attention to ergonomics, it serves to illustrate that often, the gain of a function sometimes means a small compromise on comfort, but given the usefulness of the added control, it's something we're willing and happy to overlook.
I wrote about this quite a bit during my days at BAD, finally posted something on our site so I can just copy and paste link: https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/asf-levers-configuration.html
This doesn't apply to just our ASF. , this is general information about ambi safeties.
Yeah yeah yeah so that's all good and fine and interesting stuff but when is the next EPC drop? :D (Dudes collect those like they're the last Luke Skywalker action figure ever made.)
Just did a SOLGW 13.7 build using a lot of you parts. First time using them and I have to say I am hooked. I had already had a few of your competitors ambi safeties on the bench so I pulled short of using your ASFs. The lever attachment method, however, has be doing the math on how much it will cost to switch all of mine over.
titsonritz
12-09-21, 13:58
Yeah yeah yeah so that's all good and fine and interesting stuff but when is the next EPC drop? :D (Dudes collect those like they're the last Luke Skywalker action figure ever made.)
Been waiting for an OD EPC to be in stock for quite a while.
Been waiting for an OD EPC to be in stock for quite a while.
I mean are they nice? Sure. But I'm not stressing over it like some guys who sit on sites hitting the refresh button waiting for them to drop. I'll probably pick up a few if they ever become readily available.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.