View Full Version : Help!!! I'm torn on 300 blackout vs 5.56
Stopsign32v
12-09-21, 08:21
I absolutely love the idea of a 30cal projectile and keep going back and looking at 300blk but can never talk myself into it.
Right now I'm kicking around the idea of a home defense gun. It would probably be a 10.5 build (I love the MK18 size) and I was looking at the 110gr Varmageddon bullet to make some HD loads. The instant energy dump it does I feel would be devastating for any intruder and the 10.5 should keep the round above 2,000fps.
My drawback is the reloading process for it. I already reload .223 and find it to be simple enough. How much more tedious is the 300blk? Would I regret it?
.300 Blackout is no more difficult to load than 5.56.
I am a strong proponent of the .300 for short barrels and even going with a shorter barrel...7"-8"...is plausible with the .300 and iffy with 5.56. I have come to realize it is a better round for in/around vehicles as it is much more barrier-blind that 5.56 ever really could be.
300 is worthless, 5.56 isn't. Simple.
daddyusmaximus
12-09-21, 09:29
The .300 does get you a bit more energy out of short barrels over the 5.56. To me though, it's not worth it because I don't reload, and the ammo for the .300 is just too expensive in comparison, and the extra energy isn't all that much. I only have 1 .300 blk, and that's just because it does so well suppressed. However, when running subsonic rounds, you lose that little edge, so...
Seeing as how you're a reloader though... I'd say go for it. There shouldn't be a significant cost difference for you.
robbins290
12-09-21, 09:51
300 is worthless TO ME, 5.56 isn't. Simple.
There I fixed it for you. Its far from "worthless"
I have one suppressed .300 SBR, and it's pretty niche. It's my go to home defense gun, but I run the Barnes 110gr black tips, so it's not whisper quiet like the subs. It still sounds a lot better than a 5.56 round would indoors and gives me a shorter set up. It's a lot of fun shooting subs at the range, but I don't prefer them for defensive use or hunting, which I do use it for rarely.
If you are reloading .300 HAM'R (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?231935-Wilson-Combat-300-HAMR-versus-other-options) can be formed from .223 brass, is more powerful than .300 BLK, and should avoid kabooms (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?233225-Boom-at-the-gun-range/). Since you did not mention suppression I think you should consider it.
For an HD only weapon, I would say not worth it. I have more 300BLK URGs than most people do and use them for a variety of tasks and projects. What one gets the most use? A 14.5 that John Noveske made me, its most often shot suppressed, and with a can. I use it for hunting, and feel confident with it taking just about any game in CONUS. I also shoot it other times, but I don't care all that much about subsonic ammo. Someday I'll find a magic 200 grain subsonic load that has solid expansion, but there really isn't anything I've heard about to justify big interest (for me).
If I only had 5.56 guns, I would get a .308 next.
Again, the above is ONLY in the context of you using it strictly as an HD weapon.
Recent videos by John Lovell and Mike Glover have me wanting to build a short 300blk as a niche backpack/truck gun.....
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I've recently seen 300BLK for 50 cents a round, which tells me that when prices get stable, 300BLK guns are going to surge again.
For an HD only weapon, I would say not worth it. I have more 300BLK URGs than most people do and use them for a variety of tasks and projects. What one gets the most use? A 14.5 that John Noveske made me, its most often shot suppressed, and with a can.
I may be reading this wrong. Do you see home defense value in a 10.5" gun?
I may be reading this wrong. Do you see home defense value in a 10.5" gun?
If its reliable, sure, I have zero issue with it. Nothing wrong with a 5.56 10.5" blaster. Nothing wrong with one in 300BLK either.
.300 Blackout is no more difficult to load than 5.56.
The OAL vs ogive diameter where the bullet contacts the rib in a magazine is a real concern for defensive ammo or hard use.
Too short an OAL and a round can slide forward and jamb the mag.
Too large a bullet diameter where it contacts the mag rib and the rounds can pigeon toe and jamb the mag.
It’s why the black tip and other bullets that were designed for the 300 have such a long tapered nose.
Does any of that still apply when using 300BLK specific mags?
Does any of that still apply when using 300BLK specific mags?
Maybe in some cases, but with all the bullets I’ve used, I have had no issues with the blk specific mags.
They have a smaller rib, and it will help reduce pigeon toe if you load heavy subsonic to full OAL.
None that I have seen moved the rib back to be on the 300’s neck. That’s where the rib rides on a 5.56 round. You can load empty 5.56 cases and that rib keeps them from sliding forward if you smack the mag.
I shoot plenty of short loaded 300, it runs just fine at the range. But drop or smack or keep that mag in a pouch while you run around and it can jamb up if a round slides forward.
I am going to have to look at the rib location on my 6.5 Grendel magazines. This might explain some jams I have experienced.
I am going to have to look at the rib location on my 6.5 Grendel magazines. This might explain some jams I have experienced.Grendel is a fatter round, so the ribs are mich flatter. Which is why the mags are stainless rather than Al. And no polymer mags.
If you are having jamming, its probably not mag ribs.
For what its worth, across dozens of grendel mags from 3 different mfgs in several different rifles going back to 2007, we've never had grendel mag issues.
If you'll start another thread with specifics we should be able to get you sorted.
Just don’t make the mistake of bringing a 300 BLK to a 458 Socom fight.
pinzgauer, I believe you offered to help before and I appreciate it. It is only a few magazines and I can't afford to shoot Grendel right now anyway so it hasn't been a priority. Todd's post just made me curious.
I've never had any issues with PMAG or Lancer 300 specific mags. If using 5.56 mags, google 300 BLK 250 Ogive Method. This puts the .250 measurement of the ogive on your given bullet at a certain point in relation to the rib in the magazine. This then stops the pigeon toe.
Get a 300blk only after you have a couple or more well built reliable 5,56 rifles/sbr's
I have a 9" 300 blk that makes for a fantastic HD gun and offroad vehicle hug hunting gun. But I use it's lower to host a KISS carry handle 556 14.5" colt upper for the range and training while the 300 blk upper just sits in the safe.
I like 300 blk for closer than 100yrds on steel, as it doesn’t chew up the targets.
I've owned a couple of different .300BLK guns. I can't say I really cared for the cartridge in a carbine-length barrel. That said, I do see the advantages of the cartridge in a pistol/SBR length barrel. My wife's current hunting gun, and only AR, is a 10.5" barrel AR pistol in .300BLK. She has used it for several years now to successfully take KS whitetail, as well as plinking with it and occasionally using it as a home defense gun. When she does her part, the cartridge does quite well. Purely anecdotal evidence, but I've seen a far higher hit to kill ratio with her AR than with any of the 5.56 or .223 rifles used by myself or other members of the family.
As for reloading, I've never encountered issues reloading for .300 BLK. I've never tried my hands at any of the heavy, sub-sonic stuff, but I've loaded lighter, 110-125gr loads, as well as 150gr FMJ plinking stuff, with no issues out of 5.56 or .300BLK magazines. Granted, we've never put the gun to "serious" use, but we have shot the crap out of it at the range a time or two.
I had a 16" 300 BLK AR that I used for whitetail hunting for a year or so. Shot three deer with it; so take my remarks as coming from limited set of experience.
I like the 300 BLK for 100 yards and less; out to 150 yards OK with GOOD bullet placement. The comparisons to 30-30 are roughly accurate in my experience.
At the end of the day, I stopped using it for deer.
I think for civilian defense use under 100 yards it would do the job and is arguably better than 556 in my my opinion (the 100 yard limitation being principal determinate)
Handloading is no problem, and given prices and loads, a must do. Sierra makes a 130 gr thin jacketed hollowpoint that I handloaded. In soft tissue (heart/lung) it is absolutely devastating. Against bone, I have serious doubts but no experience. If I were using 300 BLK for civilian defense, this bullet would be one I would consider.
300 BO in an 8" barrel is a fun, expensive toy suppressed with subs. I prefer the 6.8 for SBR supers. Its pretty close to optimum in a 12.5" barrel, though expensive. 5.56 mostly just works.
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I had a 16" 300 BLK AR that I used for whitetail hunting for a year or so. Shot three deer with it; so take my remarks as coming from limited set of experience.
I like the 300 BLK for 100 yards and less; out to 150 yards OK with GOOD bullet placement. The comparisons to 30-30 are roughly accurate in my experience.
At the end of the day, I stopped using it for deer.
I think for civilian defense use under 100 yards it would do the job and is arguably better than 556 in my my opinion (the 100 yard limitation being principal determinate)
Handloading is no problem, and given prices and loads, a must do. Sierra makes a 130 gr thin jacketed hollowpoint that I handloaded. In soft tissue (heart/lung) it is absolutely devastating. Against bone, I have serious doubts but no experience. If I were using 300 BLK for civilian defense, this bullet would be one I would consider.
You really think so? I think 5.56 outclasses 300BLK in every category except shorter than 10" barrels. The really short barrels are where the 300BLK really shines IMHO. 5.56mm loses way too much "juice" out of those < 10" barrels and the muzzle blast/flash are horrendous.
Yeah, like I said in the other thread, 300 AAC is the 40 S&W of rifle calibers. Weaker than 5.56 and 7.62x39 and 30 30 in supersonic setups, and essentially 45 acp in sub.
Stopsign32v
12-12-21, 22:00
Yeah, like I said in the other thread, 300 AAC is the 40 S&W of rifle calibers. Weaker than 5.56 and 7.62x39 and 30 30 in supersonic setups, and essentially 45 acp in sub.
How is a 110gr 30cal projectile at 2,200fps weaker than a 62gr 22cal projectile at 2,500fps? That math doesn't add up
How is a 110gr 30cal projectile at 2,200fps weaker than a 62gr 22cal projectile at 2,500fps? That math doesn't add up
Really depends on barrel length and bullet design and what you need or intend to do with the rifle. I'm not sure where you got those numbers but 2500fps out of a 5.56 sounds pretty low, like sub 10" barrel low. 300blk is definitely going to pull ahead of 5.56 with that short of a barrel. 5.56 really starts to fall off velocity wise when you get down around 10"-12", but of course there are also bullets designed to work at those lower velocities. Get up to a 16+" barrel and 5.56 is gonna be up around 3000 fps or better, while the 300blk out of a 16 inch barrel won't gain nearly as much velocity. Long range shooting? Fuhgeddaboudit! Not even a contest, 5.56 wins hands down. You want an AR with a pistol length barrel that has somewhat decent ballistics for how short the barrel is and that can also easily shoot subsonics? The 300blk has that all over the 5.56. Honestly both cartridges are pea shooters. 110 gr at 2100 fps is not that impressive. 300blk supersonic is at best equivalent to an M1 carbine. 300 blk subsonic has roughly the same ballistic trajectory and bullet weight as a 45acp. The only thing 5.56 has over it is velocity but it's also a weak kneed cartridge. That isn't to say that either one can't be effective if you understand the limitations of each cartridge and select an appropriate barrel length and bullet design for your intended purpose.
why not just go with x39? cheaper, plentiful, damn near identical ballistics, bullet weights are top out around 150gr but fair enough selection.
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