View Full Version : Five killed in massacre at Puerto Rico birthday party
You gotta watch the WHOLE thing, not just when they get mowed down initially; the best part comes afterward. Those fvckers were ruthless! Something tells me this wasn't these boys' first rodeo.....they knew how to shoot. Looks like FA Glock or something in there too. Yes, apparently rival gangs but it makes you think. How would YOU fare?
https://usacrime.com/2021/12/09/massacre-puerto-rico-gunmen-unload-clips-execute-five-men/
Drive by like that, getting through that initial attack is pure luck. After that, get inside or out of the ambush kill zone. You are obviously outnumbered and out outgunned.
Any idea what the carbine was? Can't tell if it was an AK or M4 (short barrel whichever it was). The FA handgun had to be a Glock 18, can't think of any others off the top of my head. They were pretty good given how we perceive gang-bangers to shoot. Kinda scary and definitely worth taking note of.
Drive by like that, getting through that initial attack is pure luck. After that, get inside or out of the ambush kill zone. You are obviously outnumbered and out outgunned.
Yeah a couple were squirming around initially but the dude in the shorts by the doorway was the most "active", of course not for long.
The perps were obviously intent on no one being left alive. It was like an IED triggering an ambush: initial contact (drive-by) then the follow-on attack. They actually came back twice.
Older guy with the beer gut was pretty smart. He ducked inside until it was over then came out with a handgun.
WickedWillis
12-10-21, 18:42
Saw this yesterday, I thought it looked like they were just hanging out outside a gas station. DOn't join gangs, kids.
Averageman
12-10-21, 18:58
I'm trying to understand the running back and forth? Perhaps they didn't have a good idea how many were actually inside the building and retreated to check reactions.
I also wondered if the blue car was spotting for them?
I'm trying to understand the running back and forth? Perhaps they didn't have a good idea how many were actually inside the building and retreated to check reactions.
I also wondered if the blue car was spotting for them?
That was what I was thinking. They weren't sure about the reception they'd receive and once they saw it was negligible they finished business.
Considering even the "victims" had guns and this was in Puerto Rico (where guns aren't smiled upon legally) they were all dirtbags, but one group of dirtbags got the drop on the other most definitely.
Averageman
12-10-21, 19:44
That was what I was thinking. They weren't sure about the reception they'd receive and once they saw it was negligible they finished business.
Considering even the "victims" had guns and this was in Puerto Rico (where guns aren't smiled upon legally) they were all dirtbags, but one group of dirtbags got the drop on the other most definitely.
I'm still working on the Blue Car early in the video, he certainly appeared to be spotting for the drive by. And yet, I am not sure if they fired.
Damn. They came back and made sure those dudes knew they were dead.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
joedirt199
12-10-21, 19:59
What the hell was up with the big guy in tan shirt just popping his head out the door with a bunch of shot up guys laying around. Pretty calm. Door guy had 30 rd mag in his glock.
What the hell was up with the big guy in tan shirt just popping his head out the door with a bunch of shot up guys laying around. Pretty calm. Door guy had 30 rd mag in his glock.
He’s there filling the reservation order called in “dinner for five”.
I'm still working on the Blue Car early in the video, he certainly appeared to be spotting for the drive by. And yet, I am not sure if they fired.
Yeah I think the blue car is the one that followed on behind the original shooter. The occupants of the blue car are the ones who capped that skinny dude with the white T-shirt who ran out into the road after the initial burst and shot at the red (orange?) car. The blue car was a chaser and put one in his left-lower abdomen (see blood stain after he flops on the ground).
What the hell was up with the big guy in tan shirt just popping his head out the door with a bunch of shot up guys laying around. Pretty calm. Door guy had 30 rd mag in his glock.
He was obviously older than those other ones, maybe a relative to one of them? His age and "wisdom" showed.....once that first burst was let loose he quickly (as I would have!) ducked back into the building. Soon he checked on the dude with the shorts lying there in the doorway, and disappeared once again with Round #2. At the very end he walks out with a gun in his hand looking around.
Anyone here ever shot a Glock 18 on full-auto?
I've shot a converted 17 (overseas), but never an actual 18. I've got videos where in slo-mo you can clearly see 4-5 pieces of brass clustered in the air at once from the burst. The rate of fire was pretty high. We spent a couple of days playing and got better, but the muzzle had a tendency to climb dramatically.
joedirt199
12-10-21, 22:46
I shot my glock 23 on full auto on accident after doing a home made trigger job. Took out too much pre-travel and the recoil was causing the firing pin to slip. Was testing reloads and only had 5 shots in the mag but they went very fast when you don't expect it. A small dept in our county has one in the armory. Bet I could talk to the guys to see if I could borrow it for a range trip.
Anyone here ever shot a Glock 18 on full-auto?
Yes. They are WAY too fast. Pretty much uncontrollable, and not really even in a fun kinda way.
ETA: As fast or faster than an Uzi, but harder to hold onto.
Short-stack hoodie gangster had some sort of short AK variant. Maybe even a 9mm version? I almost wonder if it's a "she" - seemed a bit shorter than the other fellas.
Anyone notice what seemed to be some sort of pistol malf at the end with this character, then they got another pistol from a different guy and went back to finish their target? Limp wrist malfunction maybe? I almost feel like the event centered around this character - maybe some sort of initiation? Or maybe they were the leader, given they had one of two long guns present, after all...??
That being said, I don't know - I didn't see anything particularly impressive with their shooting or tactics. Actually, their tactics and organization kinda sucked - they failed to get the job done right away, then spent alot of time milling around on the objective, and having to make repeated attacks. Clearly a lack of planning and/or disorganization.
Any asshole can dump a mag point blank and hit. And that's all this was-accuracy by volume.Effective? Absolutely. But nothing impressive.
Let's break it down more closely-
Past the initial halfassed coordination, it kinda all went to shit organizationally after the first drive-by volley.
So, blue car seems to be some sort of blocking vehicle to prevent a counter attack/chase, which seems to have achieved its goal.
They arrive and take up their position, then a second later red SUV does the drive by, during which they fail to kill all their targets (easily remedied if they'd have stopped for two seconds - wouldn't make a difference for the folks they were going to shoot).
This leaves an opening for White Shirt Hat Guy to foolishly run down the road after them and get his popper out, whereupon he's engaged by Blue Car, which amazingly, seems to fail to hit the guy but once? Or maybe he just tried to back up and fell on his ass? Who knows- either way, White Shirt Hat Guy is still well enough to get up and run behind the grey sedan, whereupon he stupidly continues to (fail to) attempt to engage the fleeing cars in his best one-handed-drunken-gangsta style. At which time, he's re-engaged by the rear car occupants? Or such. I'm not seeing a lot of hits on the car or around it, or on White Hat, so either they missed with their second barrage totally and he succumbs a few seconds later to the initial wound, OR they got one through the smashed windows of the sedan where it's not visible. Either way, white hat joins his buddies on the ground.
By this time Tan Shirt Wise Man looks like he wants to draw a pistol from his pants, then takes the better part of valor and hops his ass into the house - the only guy there with brains (although he rubbernecked out in the street WAY longer than I would have...)
Black Hat Jeans Shorts Guy is shot and still trying to engage with a pistol from the ground. I don't see how he has a line of sight on anything at this point, but he's still shooting, quickly drawing the attention of three attackers (unknown vehicle, perhaps rear Blue Sedan) who have now disembarked and are skulking forward among the cars out in the dark on both sides of the street.
Black Hat is engaged with an auto-pistol barrage by Red Shirt Hostile (even though he also has an Ak-variant, you can see him extending an arm and one-handing a pistol-sized object while shooting) on the right side of the street who runs up from behind the Grey SUV by the wooden porch, and toasts him good. As mentioned, real hard to be ineffective with an auto at ten yards or less...and there are still round strikes all around Jeans Shorts, and into the corner of the house. Hardly "acceptable" accuracy, but it doesn't need to be here.
Black Hoodie Short Stack Hostile makes their first appearance on the left side of the road by the Blue Hatchback, and ALMOST gets shot by Black Shirt Jeans Guy laying face down from the first drive by (and still apparently neither dead or passed out), who SEES them closing in, pulls a pistol out of his waistband, and bangs off one shot that doesn't even look aimed, but I swear I see a puff of glass from the hatchback a second later right by Black Hoodie's head. Black Hoodie does the ol "duck and shuffle" which seems to confirm the near hit, then hoses Black Shirt with the Ak-variant.
All hostiles then run back to the car for...reasons? act like they are going to get in, then turn around and come back. If you're watching hard, it's kinda difficult to see way off in the dark, but there was a similar pause after they initially stop, almost like they have no plan past the initial drive by, then were like "oh shit, someone's still alive and shooting at us, we gotta go back and get them", and now it's almost like they ran back, and someone was like "Did you make sure of it?" "Ummmm..." "Well, get back there and make sure!"
So they turn around and run back to the target house AGAIN...
Black Hoodie Short Stack and a new hostile - Black Balaclava- gives Black Shirt and White Hat (and maybe Black Basketball Shorts Guy?) the business with the AK-variant and an auto-pistol, then Black Hoodie tries to pull a pistol to shoot White Hat in the head, appears to fire one round (a limp wrist malf, or squib?), the pistol craps out, and they go over to one of the new hostiles - White Hoodie Red Hat - and are given/take another pistol, then they and the rest finish the job.
Interestingly enough, at the same time as Black Hoodie is finishing their business, Red Shirt goes to try and finish Jeans who is laying in the doorway, and ALSO has as a pistol malf of some sort - you can see them standing there fiddling with the slide for a bit, then they walk around the back of the Grey Sedan, and apparently get the jam/reload? sorted out on the way, then do the deed on Jeans in the doorway with the auto-pistol.
Also of note - as they walk away it can be seen that BOTH Black Hoodie and Red Shirt have Ak-variants.
Once all the hostiles have cleared off the objective, Wise Man reappears from inside the house to assess the goings on, now armed with a pistol.
Now...aside from the many failures to close the deal in one go by the baddies, were they super effective in this scenario? Absolutely- sort of.
Their disorganization was trumped, and indeed flat out nullified by the utter lack of situational awareness of the targets, and the utterly disorganized and pathetic attempt to counter-attack by same targets. Because of the, the hostiles achieved INITIAL total surprise and violence of action. Their targets actually didn't even have to engage in the street - all any survivors had to do was bunker up in the house and blast anyone trying to get in, and the attackers would have been forced, by simple time restraints (response time per police/rival gang backup) to leave with the job undone.
Also, the attackers used superior weaponry to utterly outclass their targets in fire superiority (even if they sucked at employing them accurately, it was still effective at point blank)- obviously ammo is still cheap down there? Too soon? :laugh:
HOWEVER - the hostiles total failure to finish the job on the first try, requiring them to stop their exfil and make a total of THREE attacks, on the same targets in the same locations seriously opened them up to the possibilities of a counter-attack. As seen initially, there were more guests in the house, as well as on the property - had they been armed and motivated enough, this would have been a problem for the hostiles. In fact, multiple counter-attackers wouldn't have even been necessary to ruin their day - ONE guy with an AK sitting inside the doorway of the house could probably have killed most of them when they came back a third time, and proceeded to cluster up right in front of this wide-open doorway...
Of course, it's also always good to see the effectiveness of strict gun control first hand.
....The FA handgun had to be a Glock 18, can't think of any others off the top of my head. They were pretty good given how we perceive gang-bangers to shoot. Kinda scary and definitely worth taking note of.
The Glock 18 is pretty uncommon.
I'm more likely to think they are using regular Glocks with those fancy new back plates. Those are becoming common.
That’s a pretty gruesome video. Guess I’m not booking my next holiday in Puerto Rico
Anyone here ever shot a Glock 18 on full-auto?
I’ve shot mine a few times. I’ve improved by keeping really firm wrists, so the whole hand and gun lift slightly but the muzzle stays pointed at the target.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/c864344bd3dd46cf594dd0ee0d2bdd93.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/fcdadf490f06be0f77a848006e0aadb1.jpg
This vid reinforces; condition White, drugs/booze in a war zone are poor ideas.
donlapalma
12-11-21, 06:16
That was a birthday party??
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Also of note - as they walk away it can be seen that BOTH Black Hoodie and Red Shirt have Ak-variants.
Yeah what made me wonder if it was an AK or sorts was I caught a glimpse of wood handguard and grip, certainly not AR'ish. I had to look carefully when they flung it around as the light only glinted off of it very briefly.
Averageman
12-11-21, 09:23
Yeah what made me wonder if it was an AK or sorts was I caught a glimpse of wood handguard and grip, certainly not AR'ish. I had to look carefully when they flung it around as the light only glinted off of it very briefly.
Looked like a Draco.
You gotta watch the WHOLE thing, not just when they get mowed down initially; the best part comes afterward. Those fvckers were ruthless! Something tells me this wasn't these boys' first rodeo.....they knew how to shoot. Looks like FA Glock or something in there too. Yes, apparently rival gangs but it makes you think. How would YOU fare?
https://usacrime.com/2021/12/09/massacre-puerto-rico-gunmen-unload-clips-execute-five-men/
That's a lot of guns for an isolated island with gun control. Note the full auto too. Many don't realize how much crime there is on those islands. I lived on Saint Thomas for a time and felt far safer in Brooklyn NY. I can also say a large % of crime is not even reported. I don't know what it's like today, but it was way bad when I lived there as a kid. Of course Jamaica has some of highest murder rates in the world.
I’ve shot mine a few times. I’ve improved by keeping really firm wrists, so the whole hand and gun lift slightly but the muzzle stays pointed at the target.
Would a compensator help?
That’s a pretty gruesome video. Guess I’m not booking my next holiday in Puerto Rico
I’ve shot mine a few times. I’ve improved by keeping really firm wrists, so the whole hand and gun lift slightly but the muzzle stays pointed at the target.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/c864344bd3dd46cf594dd0ee0d2bdd93.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211211/fcdadf490f06be0f77a848006e0aadb1.jpg
My understanding is the 18 hard to get and very expensive. Only one I have seen was at a gun show. I'd think their practical value was minimal unless you want/need to mag dump into someone very close. Do any units or orgs actually use them?
Averageman
12-11-21, 13:06
My understanding is the 18 hard to get and very expensive. Only one I have seen was at a gun show. I'd think their practical value was minimal unless you want/need to mag dump into someone very close. Do any units or orgs actually use them?
The Army used to arm General Officer's Drivers/Bodyguards with FA M9's.
Anyone here ever shot a Glock 18 on full-auto?
I have an 18C.
I’ve shot mine a few times. I’ve improved by keeping really firm wrists, so the whole hand and gun lift slightly but the muzzle stays pointed at the target.
Interesting. Did not know they made a Gen3 that was not a C version.
“There has just been a massacre, and they are all miserable,” the governor said. “But it so happens, which strikes me, that two of the people who died in that massacre are among the most wanted by the police. In other words, it is another incident clearly related to this drug trafficking that we are fighting.”
Kinda what I figured !
From https://www.sanjuandailystar.com/post/police-task-force-formed-in-response-to-quadruple-slaying-in-cidra
Would a compensator help?
Interesting. Did not know they made a Gen3 that was not a C version.
I bought it new from the LGS who ordered them directly from Glock, as a group buy in spring 2018. The LGS requested that I obtain the special full auto license before guaranteeing my order. I had the choice of the plain 18 or the 18c, I chose without compensator to enjoy the full experience, since it’s just a range toy. Price was $ 1580. The 18c was a $ 100 more.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?220729-I-bought-a-Glock-but
I bought it new from the LGS who ordered them directly from Glock, as a group buy in spring 2018. The LGS requested that I obtain the special full auto license before guaranteeing my order. I had the choice of the plain 18 or the 18c, I chose without compensator to enjoy the full experience, since it’s just a range toy. Price was $ 1580. The 18c was a $ 100 more.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?220729-I-bought-a-Glock-but
thx missed that thread!
Anyone here ever shot a Glock 18 on full-auto?
Yes, many years ago. Echoing others comments that it was very hard to control. Shot short bursts, tried to limit to 3 or 4 rounds max. Wasn't my gun, the sheriff dept. had a demo table at their range, we could shoot demo guns for a few bucks each run.
Back when I was shooting lots of glocks and before the aftermarket triggers took over the market, a local guy did the trigger job on one of my match glocks. It was nice and light until it went full auto, at least burst fire. The first time was a surprise and I think double or three rounds. I pulled the trigger again and it did it again. I knew I needed to stop right there. Unloaded and called the guy to tell him the gun went full auto. He did make it right by putting in a new connector that was only slightly smoothened but not radically reshaped. Gun never double or went full auto again.
Like another member said, the thick older man's reaction was very interesting. Very casual, non chalant to the whole thing.
Aye, Caramba!
I agree with El Barto.
There is actually a bit to sift through here.
Like another member said, the thick older man's reaction was very interesting. Very casual, non chalant to the whole thing.
Methinks the big guy was in on the hit. When the first car did a dry run he stepped inside. Once the homies were on the ground he nonchalantly chatted with them as they were dying.
The Army used to arm General Officer's Drivers/Bodyguards with FA M9's.
Interesting. That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen to me, but maybe I'm off base there. Are their people well trained? I know top guys in the field often have some HSLD types protecting them for obvious reasons, but I'm assuming only so many of those to go around also.
Yeah, either fat body got real lucky or he was in on it.
Yeah, either fat body got real lucky or he was in on it.
I think he was just drunk / high and bumbling around like everyone else.
Averageman
12-11-21, 15:53
Interesting. That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen to me, but maybe I'm off base there. Are their people well trained? I know top guys in the field often have some HSLD types protecting them for obvious reasons, but I'm assuming only so many of those to go around also.
Well, they fam fire with it, I think it was meant for extream emergencies. They began doing this after Gen Dozier was kidnapped in Italy.
My experiance was with a REFORGER, in like 86-87? We were se3lect6ed, went through a four week course and given our BMW's.
There were way too many General Officers for everyone to get a high speed low drag operator, so S-2 selected us to go.
Averageman
12-11-21, 15:55
Yeah, either fat body got real lucky or he was in on it.
Remember there was as Birthday Party going on inside, he may have just got lucky.
I'm guessing do to their actions they had no idea who or how many were actually inside the building. They shot and ran waiting for a reaction, when they didn't the went in for the coup de gras.
I think the Rome Airport Police does or used to issue the Glock 18, and I read somewhere that one of the Caribbean Island nations' cops has them, can't remember where.
Remember there was as Birthday Party going on inside, he may have just got lucky.
I'm guessing do to their actions they had no idea who or how many were actually inside the building. They shot and ran waiting for a reaction, when they didn't the went in for the coup de gras.
Yeah I don't think he was in on it. Like I said earlier maybe he was related to one of the "victims"? Like an uncle or dad. He too had a handgun so methinks he was probably dirty too, as guns aren't real commonplace in Puerto Rico for law-abiding folks. However, he had enough sense to stay inside, save for the brief conversation with the dude in shorts bleeding by the doorway. After that he didn't show his mug until it was over.
The Army used to arm General Officer's Drivers/Bodyguards with FA M9's.
Do you have any documentation to back this? Beretta offered the 93R, but that is 3rb not FA and afaik was never issued to US mil.
Averageman
12-12-21, 10:58
Do you have any documentation to back this? Beretta offered the 93R, but that is 3rb not FA and afaik was never issued to US mil.
No, but I held one in my hand.
titsonritz
12-12-21, 19:25
Yeah I think the blue car is the one that followed on behind the original shooter. The occupants of the blue car are the ones who capped that skinny dude with the white T-shirt who ran out into the road after the initial burst and shot at the red (orange?) car. The blue car was a chaser and put one in his left-lower abdomen (see blood stain after he flops on the ground).
He didn't want to let go of his Corona.
joedirt199
12-12-21, 23:17
No party fouls, even in a gun fight.
Averageman
12-13-21, 07:36
Do you have any documentation to back this? Beretta offered the 93R, but that is 3rb not FA and afaik was never issued to US mil.
This is odd, because I figured this out about half way through the exersize.
Tier One Leaders came with their own security and weapons, we had nothing to do with these guys. They were 3 and 4 star guys.
Tier Two were issued some of our guys for transportation and security, These were Colonels to 2 Star. Some of our guys had been to shooting school and came back to train us. Some had been to driving school and again, train the trainer.
I drove a guy named General Lank who was the Grand Pubah of Como, he was actually responcable for the link between the White House and Europe.
That might have been the first cell phone I ever saw but, it fit in a brief case and the Colonel who followed Lank around carried it everywhere with him. I was told it was a direct link.
It was a lot of responcability for a young guy, route recon and changing routes on the fly and keeping awareness the whole time.
We actually drove through about two miles of a "pedestrain traffic only route" to get him where he needed to be one time. I laughed the whole way.
Wish .com glock auto seat and I think muzzle brakes.
Look at the controls they have paired with the muzzle flash pattern.
Also they had impeccable aim, even for having muzzle brakes. I also think they had decent trigger control. It dooms some of them let out just one or two shots. I think with the auto sear conversion from wish or where ever makes it permanent full auto. Only your finder controls burst size and I think it’s a very high rate of fire.
How would I fair in that drive by? Shot the F up. As would anyone not very actively expecting it. Like a security detail.
Yeah I don't think he was in on it. Like I said earlier maybe he was related to one of the "victims"? Like an uncle or dad. He too had a handgun so methinks he was probably dirty too, as guns aren't real commonplace in Puerto Rico for law-abiding folks. However, he had enough sense to stay inside, save for the brief conversation with the dude in shorts bleeding by the doorway. After that he didn't show his mug until it was over.
You have out dated information.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/12/gun-law-in-puerto-rico-to-respect-the-second-amendment-as-of-1-january-2020/#axzz7F3GJdw9z
You have out dated information.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/12/gun-law-in-puerto-rico-to-respect-the-second-amendment-as-of-1-january-2020/#axzz7F3GJdw9z
Better than it used to be for sure, but still have to have a permit even to possess or buy a gun from what I read in that link.
Definitely a step in the right direction. Permit required, but it is "shall issue" and is also a carry permit. 100 percent reciprocity for visitors is good to know.
I find it funny that a permit is required to own a firearm, and they included an "assault weapon ban" but it exempts permit holders. I read that as - If you have the permit, "assault weapons" are not banned.
Definitely a step in the right direction. Permit required, but it is "shall issue" and is also a carry permit. 100 percent reciprocity for visitors is good to know.
I find it funny that a permit is required to own a firearm, and they included an "assault weapon ban" but it exempts permit holders. I read that as - If you have the permit, "assault weapons" are not banned.
That makes the idea of visiting for a vacation etc far more attractive.
Definitely a step in the right direction. Permit required, but it is "shall issue" and is also a carry permit. 100 percent reciprocity for visitors is good to know.
I find it funny that a permit is required to own a firearm, and they included an "assault weapon ban" but it exempts permit holders. I read that as - If you have the permit, "assault weapons" are not banned.
Wait... so my NC permit is good in PR? ORLY?
Well the article made it sound that way, based upon the wording of the law.
Upon further investigation:
Traveling with Handguns to Puerto Rico Not Quite Yet!
In terms of reciprocity, although the PRAA indicates that there is reciprocity with any valid U.S. state permit, there is a caveat that states that reciprocity will be allowed for each state, “once the NPPR Commissioner establishes a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with the state.” As of November 2021, it appears that no MOUs have been established.
Well the article made it sound that way, based upon the wording of the law.
Upon further investigation:
Traveling with Handguns to Puerto Rico Not Quite Yet!
In terms of reciprocity, although the PRAA indicates that there is reciprocity with any valid U.S. state permit, there is a caveat that states that reciprocity will be allowed for each state, “once the NPPR Commissioner establishes a memorandum of understanding (MOU) with the state.” As of November 2021, it appears that no MOUs have been established.
womp womp
That makes the idea of visiting for a vacation etc far more attractive.
After the recent disaster, I'm betting a guy could purchase a small place outside of the cities for a reasonable amount.....
womp womp
At least one person on some other site reported traveling to PR with his handgun on a FL carry permit more than once. He received no other "special" permission. He
also advised while there was initial confusion when the law changed it has since become a common practice according to the immigration staff in PR.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.