View Full Version : Load magazines to 29 (down 1)?
I read of some loading thirty round magazines to 28, some to 30. Why not 29? One cartridge down seems to be plenty of room to seat the magazine on a closed bolt.
I have never understood down loading a mag. I have never needed to in order to seat a mag .
Most of the people I have seen at the range complain about it, actually have 31 rounds in the mag and there is no movement.
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Why not just load it to 30 and seat it on a closed bolt?
I have never understood down loading a mag. I have never needed to in order to seat a mag .
Most of the people I have seen at the range complain about it, actually have 31 rounds in the mag and there is no movement.
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I had a buddy who was new to AR's that had trouble getting his mags to seat, after asking him a few questions it turned out that he had loaded all his mags until they were completely full, as full as he could pack them without counting how many he loaded into each mag. We determined that they were all loaded to 31 (pmags) and that he should take one round out of each of his mags when he got home.
The reason for downloading to 18 or 28 instead of 19 or 29 is so the top round is on the right for a visual indicator of a full although downloaded mag. This was something started during the Vietnam era when there were some issues with fully loaded mags not locking in or being extremely hard to lock in on a closed bolt. With modern mags I don't see this as an issue but there are still some from that time frame that insist on downloading mage.
Historically loading USGI mags to 30 was problematic at best. When we deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan our initial combat loadout was not 210 rounds but 196. We certainly ended up with whatever we wanted to carry but that was the initial issue. Over the last 20 years I've attended many great carbine courses and our unit had contractors training us before deployments and 28 was the way to go. I think with P-mags its not really a necessity anymore but I'm 57 and see no reason to change now. Over the last 30 years in law enforcement I witnessed too many issues with aluminum mags and 30 rounds to ever load them that way. I still prefer aluminum and 28 rounds, even with P-Mags. When I pick up an AR mag my right thumb compreses the loaded rounds, if it barely or doesn't move I strip 2 rounds and go back to whaever I'm doing.
When I took an AR class we discussed this issue when loading a magazine on a closed bolt. The PMags do not have any issues but aluminum Okay magazines and Lancer mags I cannot load on a closed bolt with 30 rounds so I had to download them by a few rounds.
...so I had to download them by a few rounds.
Why a few? Why not one?
Why a few? Why not one?
I have multiple ARs so I tested all of them and one needs to be loaded with two less. I am downloading all of my loaded magazines that way I don’t have to worry about any bolt closed issues.
Unless you’re using Pmags, 28.
Loaded to 30, GI aluminum mags don’t like to seat on a closed bolt, especially when you’re in a hurry. After the springs get broke in, they like to bolt over base when you drop the bolt.
All the problems that existed 50 years ago with 30 still exist. Even with Magpul followers but they did help a little.
I don't count how many rounds I load in my USGI mags.
I just load until I press down in the top round and it pushes them all down to about the length of my fingernail on my thumb.
Mag in left hand - loading with right hand and indexing with right thumb.
Many years ago when I took my first AR class, my mag was tough to seat. After releasing the bolt and upon initial target engagement - I would have frequent jams. This went on ALL day. I was a n00b, but one would think the instructor would have caught that the problem was to download a round. He never did. It was not till later at home with snap caps - that I determined that the mag would seat much better being downloaded.
I don't regret it though as I got great experience manipulating the rifle in an efficient manner to clear the jam.
In AR classes - a full mag could mean just 28 or 29 rounds as there really were not any drills that require maximum ammo per mag.
Ditto 28.
Too many times a fully (30 rds) loaded mag failed to properly seat on a reload.
bamashooter
12-20-21, 07:45
Zillions of years ago we (military) were instructed to load 18 in a 20-round magazine. 28 in a 30. 30s were uncommon. Just the way it was. Perhaps a short reason why. But otherwise "subordinates, boots, etc" were not authorized or worthy of questioning superiors. Life was very simple.
When I took an AR class we discussed this issue when loading a magazine on a closed bolt. The PMags do not have any issues but aluminum Okay magazines and Lancer mags I cannot load on a closed bolt with 30 rounds so I had to download them by a few rounds.
I don't have any Okay but I do have Lancers and yes, they have to pounded into submission. I don't often load on a closed bolt but I'll remember to use my Magpuls in that instance.
I've never gotten the downloading concept. If it comes to it, even a USGI mag seats on a closed bolt with 30 rounds. You just smack it harder. If you're doing a tactical reload, you've already been firing, so the extra noise/energy being used shouldn't be a problem; if you're carrying in amber for some reason (we had to in Haiti for ROE reasons, and on the civilian side, I've kept my truck gun in amber), you're doing an admin load and can afford the extra noise and energy as well. Never noticed any tendency to get malfunctions either, unless we're talking about old black follower mags back in the day.
To each their own though.
It is pretty common to see someone running drills or in a match do a reload with a Fully loaded mag (30rds) and it fall back out. I personally load 28, i have had the same issue happen during a training class with 29 loaded in a mag. I know a few swat guys, i had the pleasure to train with, say they do a 25rd load out. I questioned why loose out on 3 rounds, the reasoning made since…. Easy number to remember for loading, you dont have random rounds left over (when shooting by the 100’s or 1000’s round counts) and you never have the mag fall out from the spring not over coming a closed bolt and having the mag not seat properly.
Put me in the group that only loads to 28 in a 30 round mag. One problem it also avoids (which I haven't seen mentioned yet) is the issue when you switch guns or give the loaded mag to someone else to use. A mag with 30 rounds may seat with one gun with no issues, but there may be problems with a different gun . . . or just a different upper or different lower.
Joe Mamma
Put me in the group that only loads to 28 in a 30 round mag. One problem it also avoids (which I haven't seen mentioned yet) is the issue when you switch guns or give the loaded mag to someone else to use. A mag with 30 rounds may seat with one gun with no issues, but there may be problems with a different gun . . . or just a different upper or different lower.
Joe Mamma
Ive personally never had luck switching between guns and having it work. Unless you smack the ever living hell out of it to seat it lol
What about 40s? I have both aluminum and Pmags for first contact. Would you download those to 38 or what?
Mysteryman
12-22-21, 20:12
It is pretty common to see someone running drills or in a match do a reload with a Fully loaded mag (30rds) and it fall back out. I personally load 28, i have had the same issue happen during a training class with 29 loaded in a mag. I know a few swat guys, i had the pleasure to train with, say they do a 25rd load out. I questioned why loose out on 3 rounds, the reasoning made since…. Easy number to remember for loading, you dont have random rounds left over (when shooting by the 100’s or 1000’s round counts) and you never have the mag fall out from the spring not over coming a closed bolt and having the mag not seat properly.
If your mag falls out after a reload, you're doing it wrong. TAP TUG is the method. The TUG prevents the OOPS! you mention.
If your mag falls out after a reload, you're doing it wrong. TAP TUG is the method. The TUG prevents the OOPS! you mention.
Also don't forget to use the forward assist to make sure the round is properly seated.
Why not just load it to 30 and seat it on a closed bolt?
Because you dont always get to make that choice.
What about 40s? I have both aluminum and Pmags for first contact. Would you download those to 38 or what?
I have a couple 40 rd Pmags. I load them to 38 rds, same reason as 28 in a 30.
Also don't forget to use the forward assist to make sure the round is properly seated.
I had to do more than tap with a fully loaded Lancer... I turned the rifle horizontal, braced the top of it against the barricade and beat it in with the heel of my hand. It worked but my understanding now is that is common with Lancer mags. Going to experiment with Magpul mags now.
About 12 years ago, at a training class Larry Vickers told me to load only 28 rounds. Considering his experience and knowledge, I will abide by his recommendation.
I had to do more than tap with a fully loaded Lancer... I turned the rifle horizontal, braced the top of it against the barricade and beat it in with the heel of my hand. It worked but my understanding now is that is common with Lancer mags. Going to experiment with Magpul mags now.
I've heard this complaint about Lancers a few times, but interestingly I mainly run Lancers and I have no problem getting those I've tried to seat in any lower I own. I used to down load, but have been loading all of of mine to 30 for a few years now. Takes a firm tap, but all the ones I've tried seat on a closed bolt with no issues.
I bought one of the very first Lancer mags which were crap. I've never gone back to those things. I know they run now, but I hold grudges when it comes to "American Mediocrity" as I've come to call it. (crappy products rushed to market for a quick buck)
I think (no expert) if you push-pull the magazine like lots of trainers advise anyway and then when the BCG is locked to the rear you can bypass this with a fully loaded magazine.
I know Vickers recommends push/pull and downloading. I’m a nobody but I’d think if you push/pull then you’d load to 30 with no issues.
I don’t have a dog in this fight but, that’s just my perspective.
God Bless,
Brandon
My .02 cents… In most of the rifles I own and have shot it was difficult to seat a full mag with the BCG closed. Lancers were the worst, but Magpul, USGI, whatever all seated very, very hard.
I download 2 rounds and have no issue.
Hmmm. Complaints about lancer mags.
Sounds like some need to rethink their strategy.
My wife has no problem seating her Full Lancer mags. And if she can do it.
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My .02 cents… In most of the rifles I own and have shot it was difficult to seat a full mag with the BCG closed. Lancers were the worst, but Magpul, USGI, whatever all seated very, very hard.
I download 2 rounds and have no issue.
Are they still difficult to seat downloading by one, instead of two?
I had to do more than tap with a fully loaded Lancer... I turned the rifle horizontal, braced the top of it against the barricade and beat it in with the heel of my hand. It worked but my understanding now is that is common with Lancer mags. Going to experiment with Magpul mags now.
I will concede that Lancers and USGI mags are much more difficult to seat with 30 rds on a closed bolt. I do 95% of my shooting with pmags which I can reliable seat on a closed bolt when loaded with 30 rounds. It's a pretty aggressive "tap" to seat the mag, more of a hard smack with the meat of the palm. Either that or a push pull. But the fully loaded pmags do seat.
Hmmm. Complaints about lancer mags.
Sounds like some need to rethink their strategy.
My wife has no problem seating her Full Lancer mags. And if she can do it.
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Your wife, you and I must be the odd balls. I have Lancers, GI's, Pmags, including 40's extended to 45, and have always been able to seat full one's on a closed bc in all my guns. Oh well.
Mysteryman
12-23-21, 18:37
Also don't forget to use the forward assist to make sure the round is properly seated. HAHAHAHA nope..
Because you dont always get to make that choice.
His comment makes no sense, loading on an open bolt is always easier than a closed.
I had to do more than tap with a fully loaded Lancer... I turned the rifle horizontal, braced the top of it against the barricade and beat it in with the heel of my hand. It worked but my understanding now is that is common with Lancer mags. Going to experiment with Magpul mags now.
If you do a little research, Pmags were designed to hold a FULL 30 rounds and seat on a closed bolt. The number of people who don't count rounds while loading simply astounds me....
About 12 years ago, at a training class Larry Vickers told me to load only 28 rounds. Considering his experience and knowledge, I will abide by his recommendation.
Larry served with GI mags which often worked better downloaded. It is not necessary with modern magazines.
.02...
I download to 28 in 30s.
Latest 30s may claim 30, but not with enough consistency across production or across gun variations. Some better than others.
A mag shouldn't need a hard smack to seat.
Push-pull is valid, open or closed bolt.
Downloading as curriculum has merit, shooters have different strength to leverage.
Current and former cools guys/SMEs are found on both sides. The devil is in the details, context-application-audience.
Lots of good mags out there. Train with them.
Quality aluminum mags with anti-tilt follower are still GTG.
What other people do doesn't matter, unless you're responsible for them or their learning.
FWIW, I don’t believe I’ve ever downloaded a magazine. The only guys I know of that had a reason for it, got that reason a long time ago. Or were told to do it by someone that learned it along time ago.
Honestly, I look at it the same as the .45 vs 9 debate.
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