View Full Version : RECCE Red Dot Zero's and Placements
Doc. Holiday
12-20-21, 16:31
So I've been piecing together my 14.5 inch RECCE build and I'm on the final touch. The red dot.
What I am conflicted about is placement and zero. I see a lot of value keeping it vertical on the scope via scope ring mount, etc to help with barricade usage, awkward engagement stances, and such. But I also do like the 45 degree offset placement as well. I've had a 36 yard zero on my MK18 and have been loving it and am considering doing the same, but wanted to hear all arguments.
I wanted to ask you guys what zero you like and where you placed your red dot (if you have one) on your RECCE rifle.
This same topic crossed my mind
today. I have a 16 inch middy with an older Vortex Viper PST 1-4 that is soon to be swapped out for a Vortex Razor 1-10. I see benefits to both setups you describe. If you want to maintain a cheek weld that is what I like the 45 degree offset option for. However, if you plan on running night vision ever, I think (in my two cents) what makes most sense would be mounting an RMR on top of a scope mount. I really am an advocate for solid cheek weld at all times whenever possible, but for night vision purposes the micro dot on top of the scope rings make more sense and this is the dilemma I am facing right now too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I sight my dots in at 50. This gives me a fairly flat trajectory out to 200. I prefer the 45 degree offset, as it allows better cheek weld.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Has anyone tried the 45 degree offset dots at distance? The barrel is naturally pointed slightly up towards the optical line of sight of the scope mounted on top of the rifle. When you cant the rifle to the side the round is going to be shooting off to that side. Now in reality that should only be a couple inches of deviation per 100 yards but to me it just seems like you are adding error into your aiming solutions at distance.
Has anyone tried the 45 degree offset dots at distance? The barrel is naturally pointed slightly up towards the optical line of sight of the scope mounted on top of the rifle.
If you keep the sight directly above the bore when you zero it and when you shoot at distance it should work just the same as if it were mounted on the rail. Are you describing something different?
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-20-21, 18:57
100yd zero. I could explain why I like it, but this thread will do a better job of explaining it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?107572-Zen-of-the-100-Yard-Zero
Has anyone tried the 45 degree offset dots at distance? The barrel is naturally pointed slightly up towards the optical line of sight of the scope mounted on top of the rifle. When you cant the rifle to the side the round is going to be shooting off to that side. Now in reality that should only be a couple inches of deviation per 100 yards but to me it just seems like you are adding error into your aiming solutions at distance.
2 different optics with 2 different zeros, the scope would be zeroed for the rifle being held normally, the offset red dot would be zeroed for having the rifle canted 45 degrees with the dot above the bore and would work just like an optic that was mounted on the top rail as Disciple mentioned. You would be right if someone shot through an offset optic without canting the rifle to put the optic above the bore. Some of the old WW2 sniper rifles were set up that way.
Inkslinger
12-20-21, 19:01
Has anyone tried the 45 degree offset dots at distance? The barrel is naturally pointed slightly up towards the optical line of sight of the scope mounted on top of the rifle. When you cant the rifle to the side the round is going to be shooting off to that side. Now in reality that should only be a couple inches of deviation per 100 yards but to me it just seems like you are adding error into your aiming solutions at distance.
The barrel does not know up from down, left from right. It’s angle is only in relation to the aiming system. As long as a 45 degree offset is zeroed with the rifle canted in the same position as you would be using the offset sight, the bullet path will be in the same relation as if the sight was on top of the rifle. Does that make sense? Now, if you put on a 45 and zero your rifle in the same position as you would for a sight on top, then it would be wonky at distance.
titsonritz
12-20-21, 19:02
100yd zero. I could explain why I like it, but this thread will do a better job of explaining it.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?107572-Zen-of-the-100-Yard-Zero
^^^This. That said I would put a LPVO on a RECCE over a RDS.
Inkslinger
12-20-21, 19:04
^^^This. That said I would put a LPVO on a RECCE over a RDS.
I believe he’s talking about having both.
I zero'd for the same distance as any of my other dots and irons, 50m. The offset was more natural to me and took less of a learning curve but I didn't like the extra bulk. The top mounted was ok but needed more practice, I sold the whole setup before long for other reasons.
titsonritz
12-20-21, 19:17
I believe he’s talking about having both.
OK that makes sense.
Yall are right. Ive been shooting a lot of precision bolt gun lately and had the "cant equals thrown shots" burned into my mind.
I prefer a 12 o'clock mount for a variety of reasons now, having used 45* quite a bit. Yeah, it's tall, but I run a cheek riser anyway (because with a 1.54" mount for the precision optic, the riser helps fit the gun to me almost exactly like my bolts would be), which mitigates some of the excess height. Height over bore is increased, but I was accounting for mechanical offset even way back when I was shooting absolute cowitness mounts; it just takes practice. That said, don't do a short zero with one (or any high mount, for that matter) because the trajectory beyond your zero will be pretty extreme.
Doc. Holiday
12-21-21, 10:05
Some of you pointed out a gap I didn't mention.
Yes I will be shooting under NVG's. I have a set of DTNVS's. I was thinking about zeroing the red dot with a 36 yard zero and the LPVO (Sig Tango6t 1-6) at 100 (but obviously still open to a ton of suggestions). I have been monitoring the "AR trajectories" thread for a number of years, but just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something when it came to a RECCE setup.
This is great stuff guys! Keep it coming!
Doc. Holiday
12-21-21, 10:06
I prefer a 12 o'clock mount for a variety of reasons now, having used 45* quite a bit. Yeah, it's tall, but I run a cheek riser anyway (because with a 1.54" mount for the precision optic, the riser helps fit the gun to me almost exactly like my bolts would be), which mitigates some of the excess height. Height over bore is increased, but I was accounting for mechanical offset even way back when I was shooting absolute cowitness mounts; it just takes practice. That said, don't do a short zero with one (or any high mount, for that matter) because the trajectory beyond your zero will be pretty extreme.
Rock, I'm interested to hear more details as to why you choose the top over the 45 since you have done both.
Rock, I'm interested to hear more details as to why you choose the top over the 45 since you have done both.
For a few reasons.
1) I like high mounts with RDS in general (running Unity or SKD 2.26" mounts on all my RDS guns), and 45* mounts generally top out at 1.93". It's not a monumental difference but it is a difference. While a 12 o'clock mounted RDS on top of a scope is even higher, it feels similar to my 2.26" mounts with my cheek riser setup.
2) I generally don't prefer the extra bulk of the 45* mounts hanging off the side of the gun.
3) 45* mounted RDS are next to impossible to use as a "get on target" optic at long range in the prone like a 12 o'clock mounted RDS can be. You see guys with bolt guns do this a lot and the same principle applies to semis. Find the target in the dot, then drop down into your big glass. Boom, target right there.
4) It just feels more natural *to me* to lift my head slightly vs rolling the gun. Not everyone feels that way, and some of that is probably specific to my face shape and running a cheek riser. The riser pushes my face sideways when the gun is canted, which can make it a strain to get behind a 45* mounted RDS.
NVGs are outside my lane, but I've been told a high 12 o'clock mount is significantly easier to use for passive aiming than a 45* mount. Gas masks are in my lane, however, and it's 100% true of them as well.
titsonritz
12-21-21, 21:02
SKD 2.26" mounts
I didn't know thoses were a thing, thanks for the heads up.
I didn't know thoses were a thing, thanks for the heads up.
Happy to help. Finding out about the SKD risers got a couple 30mm Aimpoints that were just sitting in the safe back on guns for me. Solid, inexpensive solution.
Happy to help. Finding out about the SKD risers got a couple 30mm Aimpoints that were just sitting in the safe back on guns for me. Solid, inexpensive solution.Makes me wish I didn't sell off my original mount. Currently have a Bobro ¹/³rd.
Want to try 9ut something a touch taller.
Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
Doc. Holiday
12-22-21, 00:03
Ya I was unaware of the SKD mount as well. Been rocking the unity mount on my MK18 and it’s perfect for NVGs
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-22-21, 08:16
After trying a 1.93" mount, I'll never go lower than that for any 1x optic again. I'm currently running the SKD 1.93 with my Aimpoint Pro on my 6933 and the Unity 2.26 FAST micro mount on my MK18. Eventually all my Scalarworks lower 1/3 mounts will get sold off and replaced with the Unity FAST. They're legit.
556BlackRifle
12-24-21, 11:09
My Aimpoint and EOTECH zero at 50Y. My LVPO zero is 100Y. (my range is calibrated in yards.) I know that a lot of people may have differing opinions about which zero is best, but this is what works for me. In my world the Aimpoint and EOTECH are CQB out to 200. My LVPO is close range out to whatever. I don't have a stack because in my world, CQB to 200 is all I need and my LVPOs are just for fun. If I was door kicking and running around the countryside with one rifle, I'd seriously consider the vertical stack.
After trying a 1.93" mount, I'll never go lower than that for any 1x optic again.
I'm definitely not among the most knowledgeable, but I prefer a fixed FSB whenever possible. It's by far the most durable front sight option and it looks cool which is the most important thing. If you're using a quality red dot, the likelihood of it going down when you need it is slim, but if it does, the optic can be used as a ghost ring rear sight and you can do work with it and the front sight in a pinch, but you have to spend time on the range learning holds for that.
Do you have a solution for these to work together or have you moved on from using FSB uppers?
Five_Point_Five_Six
12-24-21, 13:23
Do you have a solution for these to work together or have you moved on from using FSB uppers?
Nope, I still probably prefer a FSB but I don't lose any sleep if I don't have one. My 6933 and my Andro Corp 10.3" uppers both have FSBs. My MK18 has the RIS II rail.
As far as a solution, the front sight is still visible through the Aimpoint Pro in the 1.93" configuration, it just sits roughly 3/8" lower. You can't cowitness with it, but you can still use the optic window as a ghost ring and the front sight as a reference point in a pinch. The optic can be ditched rather quickly if need be since it's on a QD mount.
The Unity FAST is compatible with front irons through the included rear sight built into the mount, or you can install the provided front sight that comes with the mount. It's a very short sight radius that way, but you can still do work with it. I need to spend some time one day at the range and see just how far I can get good hits with the built in irons.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.