View Full Version : Recommend a pistol for my first RDS
Team, I think an RDS equipped handgun is missing from my collection. Right now I don’t have an optic ready gun, and I figure I might as well just buy a dedicated platform rather than get an existing slide milled. Probably going to start with a Holosun optic. Other than wanting 9mm, I’m not too picky about platform, but figure a full size gun is the way to go. I had looked at CZs, since I like the CZ-75 and it’s derivatives, but it seems like there is some complexity in figuring out a mount, even for the optic ready models. I have also heard the Glock MOS guns have drawbacks vice just getting a regular Glock slide milled. I don’t mind having to send a slide for milling, but I do want a gun that is functional without a dot installed.
Primary purpose will be range work as I evaluate if I want to transition to RDS on my carry guns, with the high likelihood it will get used in formal training, so I do need something that will work with a duty holster.
Glock MOS with a C&H plate and done.
Glock MOS with a Forward Controls Design plate and done.
Fixed it for you.
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titsonritz
12-21-21, 22:38
Another good choice would the Walther PDP.
Primary purpose will be range work as I evaluate if I want to transition to RDS on my carry guns,
You want to get an optic-capable version of a gun you currently most familiar with. Running the dot largely relies on kinesthetic index so if your current gun points differently from what you're going to run with the dot, you're not setting yourself up for success. There will be enough early challenge learning the dot, you don't want to add another challenge of learning a new gun simultaneously.
Plate vs direct mill is a long-standing debate that lacks systematic analysis. My personal experience is that it doesn't matter much. Some people believe that plates offer some advantages, others don't. Plate vs milling shouldn't be a fixation point, at least early on.
You want to get an optic-capable version of a gun you currently most familiar with. Running the dot largely relies on kinesthetic index so if your current gun points differently from what you're going to run with the dot, you're not setting yourself up for success. There will be enough early challenge learning the dot, you don't want to add another challenge of learning a new gun simultaneously.
Plate vs direct mill is a long-standing debate that lacks systematic analysis. My personal experience is that it doesn't matter much. Some people believe that plates offer some advantages, others don't. Plate vs milling shouldn't be a fixation point, at least early on.
Excellent summation and advice.
Business_Casual
12-22-21, 09:51
You want to get an optic-capable version of a gun you currently most familiar with. Running the dot largely relies on kinesthetic index so if your current gun points differently from what you're going to run with the dot, you're not setting yourself up for success. There will be enough early challenge learning the dot, you don't want to add another challenge of learning a new gun simultaneously.
Plate vs direct mill is a long-standing debate that lacks systematic analysis. My personal experience is that it doesn't matter much. Some people believe that plates offer some advantages, others don't. Plate vs milling shouldn't be a fixation point, at least early on.
Well said, IMO.
I have many guns with RDS, but if I were just buying my first one, VP9 OR or VP9 Long slide OR ( OR = optics ready). Make sure you can get the optic plate first, they were scarce for a while.
I'm not a Glock guy, but you cant go wrong with a Glock if you like Glocks. If you like Sigs, the Sig P320 with their dot works pretty darn good. Lotta good options.
Holosun is a good idea.
PB
If you like glocks, you may want to consider shadow system's
Soli Deo Gloria
Thanks for the advice--I'm pretty impatient when it comes to pistols...less time on the work bench, more time on the range. So it sounds like the easy button is just to grab a Glock MOS--aftermarket support seems best for Glock when it comes to suppressor height sights and other things like that, and I shoot Glocks enough I'm pretty comfortable with the platform. I've got a few other projects going on, so it might be awhile before I get this all together, but I do like to have a plan for my gun purchases otherwise I end up with a lot of stuff in the safe that's cool that I don't shoot much.
Going through this myself.
I got a Hellcat. It's a flippy little gun with a small grip. That hinders shot recovery/follow-ups no matter what the aiming device is.
Get something larger.
I'd consider a Glock 48 MOS myself even though I don't like the grip angle, trigger, or that it has no manual safety.
But the biggest problem is it will probably chuck hot casings in my face like the last few Glocks I've had. 😕
If you have a Glock get a Leupold Delta micro, I love it. As a matter of fact between this red dot and my ammo project, has shown me how great the Glock after market parts world is.
If you have a Glock get a Leupold Delta micro, I love it. As a matter of fact between this red dot and my ammo project, has shown me how great the Glock after market parts world is.
I would not recommend any pistol RDS other than the RMR, any of the Holosuns, or the Aimpoint ACRO P2. They are the only red dots that survive the drop test. The ACRO P1 also survives the drop test, but the battery life makes it a nonstarter.
Depends on what you already use, as someone above said. I like my PPQ, so I got a Q4 Tac and then a slide conversation for a Q5.
The PDP seems like a really good choice.
I would not recommend any pistol RDS other than the RMR, any of the Holosuns, or the Aimpoint ACRO P2. They are the only red dots that survive the drop test. The ACRO P1 also survives the drop test, but the battery life makes it a nonstarter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDxVeo0bBA4
Wrong, it survived Aaron's testing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDxVeo0bBA4
Wrong, it survived Aaron's testing.Ah yes, I mistook what you were talking about for the Deltapoint Pro. My mistake.
Glock MOS, a Sig P320 optics ready, Walter PDP (designed for optics use from the beginning), or a M&P 2.0 Optics Ready.
The PDP is the only one designed ground-up to be optics ready from the factory.
Use a FCD or C&H plate and go to work.
PatrioticDisorder
12-26-21, 06:26
If you want an optic ready striker fired gun, my choice would be the MR/DR/XR920 by Shadow Systems. I love mine.
I'd never heard of Shadow Systems so I looked into it.
Looks like a "P80" gun slapped together by PSA with mystery parts to me.
Lol that couldn’t be further from the truth. Actually look into the gun
chamber143
12-29-21, 14:16
I'd never heard of Shadow Systems so I looked into it.
Looks like a "P80" gun slapped together by PSA with mystery parts to me.
Not even close. They are the finest shooting pistol I own and I have allot. I cc an mr 920 and they have the most solid optics mounting system out there. Plus they handle so much better than my Glocks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDxVeo0bBA4
Wrong, it survived Aaron's testing.I can't base much on his testing as he is a holosun fanboy.
I think he will push whatever is paying the best.
As an American who is sick of this Covid garbage anyone that push's a 100% Chinese product loses my respect.
Inkslinger
12-29-21, 14:48
I'd never heard of Shadow Systems so I looked into it.
Looks like a "P80" gun slapped together by PSA with mystery parts to me.
You’re seeing the PSA Dagger. Shadow Systems pistol is not a p80 with PSA parts.
chamber143
12-29-21, 18:08
I can't base much on his testing as he is a holosun fanboy.
I think he will push whatever is paying the best.
As an American who is sick of this Covid garbage anyone that push's a 100% Chinese product loses my respect.
I’ve never heard him called a fan boy before. I feel his reviews are the hardest, most honest reviews on YouTube. To each his own. I too like American made, but an rmr has to be removed to replace the battery and the holosun doesn't. I have two rmr and two holosuns and I like the bigger window and side battery replacement of the holosun and the cheaper price tag is good too.
I’ve never heard him called a fan boy before. I feel his reviews are the hardest, most honest reviews on YouTube. To each his own. I too like American made, but an rmr has to be removed to replace the battery and the holosun doesn't. I have two rmr and two holosuns and I like the bigger window and side battery replacement of the holosun and the cheaper price tag is good too.I see people say that about tge battery, all the time.
I can change the battery once a year in 3 minutes, so 5 RDS means once a year I waste 15 minutes.
Are you really that busy?
I have my slides milled to the sight so I don't lose zero.
If you have the generic, one size fits all factory cut, a cheap laser would mean you won't lose zero.
Move the laser gun to gun, set it to the RDS, the check after the RDS is reinstalled.
That would add 3 minutes, so 6 minutes per gun, per year, to support an American company.
If you like a bigger window, Trijicon makes one of those also, the SRO.
As to price, supporting an American company paying workers a living wage vs a Chinese sweat shop, to me that is self explanatory.
chamber143
12-29-21, 18:29
I see people say that about tge battery, all the time.
I can change the battery once a year in 3 minutes, so 5 RDS means once a year I waste 15 minutes.
Are you really that busy?
I have my slides milled to the sight so I don't lose zero.
If you have the generic, one size fits all factory cut, a cheap laser would mean you won't lose zero.
Move the laser gun to gun, set it to the RDS, the check after the RDS is reinstalled.
That would add 3 minutes, so 6 minutes per gun, per year, to support an American company.
If you like a bigger window, Trijicon makes one of those also, the SRO.
As to price, supporting an American company paying workers a living wage vs a Chinese sweat shop, to me that is self explanatory.
I’m pretty busy but that’s not the point. I’m more concerned with the screws getting stripped or the slide being stripped or the screw head stripping. Once I have it loctited and torqued, I’d rather leave it alone.
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chamber143
12-29-21, 18:31
I see people say that about tge battery, all the time.
I can change the battery once a year in 3 minutes, so 5 RDS means once a year I waste 15 minutes.
Are you really that busy?
I have my slides milled to the sight so I don't lose zero.
If you have the generic, one size fits all factory cut, a cheap laser would mean you won't lose zero.
Move the laser gun to gun, set it to the RDS, the check after the RDS is reinstalled.
That would add 3 minutes, so 6 minutes per gun, per year, to support an American company.
If you like a bigger window, Trijicon makes one of those also, the SRO.
As to price, supporting an American company paying workers a living wage vs a Chinese sweat shop, to me that is self explanatory.
Dude don’t lecture me on American made. I buy everything I can American made but to make it about that is silly. I would bet you buy 90%of what you use from china. What you can’t pay more because it’s made in American to support American workers.
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I’m pretty busy but that’s not the point. I’m more concerned with the screws getting stripped or the slide being stripped or the screw head stripping. Once I have it loctited and torqued, I’d rather leave it alone.
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12# of torque would take effort to strip threads, if the screw head gets bogered up, replace it.
I've run RDS since 2015 and have never used loctite or had a sight come loose.
There are plenty of places to buy the screw's for a nickel each, so if you're really concerned, toss the old and use new. You said you have 4 RDS, so that's 8 screws or .40 cents a year.
I don't worry about minor stuff like that.
Think about telling unemployed people that .40 cents a year and 30 minutes a year used for maintenance is a good reason to support China.
chamber143
12-29-21, 18:39
12# of torque would take effort to strip threads, if the screw head gets bogered up, replace it.
I've run RDS since 2015 and have never used loctite or had a sight come loose.
There are plenty of places to buy the screw's for a nickel each, so if you're really concerned, toss the old and use new. You said you have 4 RDS, so that's 8 screws or .40 cents a year.
I don't worry about minor stuff like that.
Think about telling unemployed people that .40 cents a year and 30 minutes a year used for maintenance is a good reason to support China.
I’ll tell you what, send me their email address and I will. To be honest most of the unemployed are because they don’t want to work. There is help wanted signs everywhere.
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Dude don’t lecture me on American made. I buy everything I can American made but to make it about that is silly. I would bet you buy 90%of what you use from china. What you can’t pay more because it’s made in American to support American workers.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'll put $1000 that you can come to my house right now and would have to search to find Chinese products, unless there isn't a product made elsewhere. I make an effort to not support that country whenever possible.
I have two Silverados and a Tahoe in the driveway, what's in your driveway?
You commented to me so don't tell me about lectures. If you don't want to be corrected don't say something that can easily be disagreed with.
chamber143
12-29-21, 18:44
You clearly sound as pure as the wind driven snow so I’ll just leave it there. Your right, I’m an ass hole and let’s just stop it here. You are a far superior American than I am and congratulations on that.
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I’ll tell you what, send me their email address and I will. To be honest most of the unemployed are because they don’t want to work. There is help wanted signs everywhere.
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Gotcha you won't even get off the couch to tell people you support other countries you want email addresses, enough said.
Have a great day.
chamber143
12-29-21, 18:49
Gotcha you won't even get off the couch to tell people you support other countries you want email addresses, enough said.
Have a great day.
In my area McDonald’s is starting people at 18 dollars an hour. If you can’t find a good paying job in this economy, you ain’t tying. You have a good day too. Try not to choke on your self righteous bullshit
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In my area McDonald’s is starting people at 18 dollars an hour. If you can’t find a good paying job in this economy, you ain’t tying. You have a good day too. Try not to choke on your self righteous bullshit
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOk, people building electronics are compared to McDonalds workers.
Wow, just wow.
If you think $18 is good paying, I understand your support of Chinese sweat shops.
chamber143
12-29-21, 18:55
Ok, people building electronics are compared to McDonalds workers.
Wow, just wow.
If you think $18 is good paying, I understand your support of Chinese sweat shops.
I didn’t say its good pay. I’m simply saying that there are jobs everywhere. I pay my employees 20+ to start. But once again I am no condition to compare to you and your perfection.
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Inkslinger
12-29-21, 19:44
Back on topic fellas. Please.
PatrioticDisorder
12-31-21, 11:59
I'd never heard of Shadow Systems so I looked into it.
Looks like a "P80" gun slapped together by PSA with mystery parts to me.
You’re really doing yourself a disservice if that is your assessment at quick glance. I have an MR920 & a serialized P80 build with all Glock OEM parts (except for Apex trigger) and the MR920>>>> P80 build. The gun isn’t perfect, but it’s as close to perfect as currently exists for an out of the box striker fired gun based on the Glock operating system.
Starting with the frame, it has very good texturing (vastly superior to a stock Glock), interchangeable back straps that change the grip angle (Glock, sig & 1911 angle), it is undercut, high beaver tail that is also relieved on the sides to help with concealability, recoil control ledge on the frame & Glock Gen 4 pattern rail. It has what I’d call an extended slide stop/release in that it is extended towards the rear of the firearm but not extended outwards & has a fence surrounding it so you won’t like the slide back prematurely/inadvertently with a high grip. In the frame is their flat(ish) face trigger which is about 4.5lbs.
The slide is 17-4 stainless steel w/black nitride finish. Barrel is 416R stainless steel, subjectively most find these pistols to be exceptionally accurate for a striker fired gun. You can get it out of the box with a threaded barrel. The slide allows for the lowest and likely the strongest mounting system for a red dot, stupid simple method of attachment. You get sights that are a smidge taller than standard sights cowitnessing with your red dot. Stock sights are perfect for what I want, bright yellowish green front with tritium & blacked out rear sights. The rear of the slide is slanted to help with drawing the firearm from concealment. The serrations are well thought out, easy to grip and rack the slide, they don’t catch drawing the gun. The gun is a bit lighter than a stock Glock with most of that weight being removed from the slide, helping the gun shoot flat. It has a 17-4 stainless steel RSA guide rod that allows you to swap the recoil spring out without needing an entire new RSA.
It is also compatible with most, if not all Glock holsters, certainly zero issues with light bearing holsters. No issues that I know of with any safariland Glock holsters. The guns are widely considered to be reliable, my copy certainly is, despite the reported 200 round break in period mine has been reliable since round 1 through the pistol.
The only knock I have on the gun is it ships with PMAGS. Now I could care less about this, except the magazine catch that ships with the gun is designed to work with PMAGs. The problem with this is that it will eventually destroy your OEM Glock magazines chewing away at the ledge.
So here is a public service announcement, if you plan on running OEM Glock magazines swap your magazine catch out for a Gen 4/5 OEM glock magazine catch (easy enough).
The only reason this isn’t my favorite pistol is because I’ve become Staccato/2011 obsessed, but that is an entirely different topic.
I'd never heard of Shadow Systems so I looked into it.
Looks like a "P80" gun slapped together by PSA with mystery parts to me.
Lol. You're not wrong.
Nothing wrong with a gen5 glock for $400 less.
PatrioticDisorder
12-31-21, 15:13
Lol. You're not wrong.
Nothing wrong with a gen5 glock for $400 less.
So if you read the OP’s post, he wants a gun that is functional with and without red dot installed and is skiddish of the crappy MOS option (with good reason). If you take a OEM Gen 5, get the slide milled, get a plate cover for the mill work (my assumption here is he won’t be running the gun without a plate cover when the red dot is uninstalled), add useable sights you are now over $400 plus the cost of the gun and you are still stuck with 1980 ergonomics & mediocre trigger, you also don’t have the option of running suppressed or running a comp without purchasing a threaded barrel. Your resale value of the Shadow Systems will also likely be higher since nobody ever gets close to what they spent selling s a Glock they customized.
Team, I think an RDS equipped handgun is missing from my collection. Right now I don’t have an optic ready gun, and I figure I might as well just buy a dedicated platform rather than get an existing slide milled. Probably going to start with a Holosun optic. Other than wanting 9mm, I’m not too picky about platform, but figure a full size gun is the way to go. I had looked at CZs, since I like the CZ-75 and it’s derivatives, but it seems like there is some complexity in figuring out a mount, even for the optic ready models. I have also heard the Glock MOS guns have drawbacks vice just getting a regular Glock slide milled. I don’t mind having to send a slide for milling, but I do want a gun that is functional without a dot installed.
Primary purpose will be range work as I evaluate if I want to transition to RDS on my carry guns, with the high likelihood it will get used in formal training, so I do need something that will work with a duty holster.
"Other than wanting 9mm, I’m not too picky about platform, but figure a full size gun is the way to go."
9mm PARA is meant to be a compact round. So I say P365xl. Because 9mm doesn't need to be any bigger.
The closest I come to liking a 9mm was the P228. Even then I was like. This is too bulky for a compact little round like 9mm.
Don't even get me started on how I felt about the 92FS. I LOVED the gun but they really should have trimmed some of the fat and then chambered it in 10mm. That thing would have been perfect.
But seriously.
:jester:
9mm PARA is meant to be a compact round. So I say P365xl. Because 9mm doesn't need to be any bigger.
:
Ha, that's certainly one way to look at it. I don't like reloading, so tend to learn toward bigger guns--back in the dark ages I used to CCW a 4 inch N frame, though, so my perspective might be a little out of whack. I get a kick out of carrying my M9 with 18 round mags, because my Dad carried Smith and Wesson M15 in Vietnam with 18 rounds total. I'm also a P228 fan--I think it's interesting that the Air Force is now exclusively issuing the M18, compared to the last few decades when they had M9s and M11s in inventory to satisfy the "duty" and "concealable" roles. I do hear good things about the P365s, though, eventually I'm sure I'll have one in the collection.
"I don't like reloading, so tend to learn toward bigger guns"
I hear you. I want as many as I can reasonably get on tap. All the more reason to try a P365XL. Factory Flush 12 rounds add a mag guts kit and your at 14 rounds in that same 12 round mag.
They also have a 15 round factory mag. I think mag guts is planning a plus 2 for it as well.
It is so slim and comfortable to carry. I almost dont want to carry anything else.
Once you shoot one you'll be hooked. Especially with a HOLOSUN 507K x2
If you have a Glock get a Leupold Delta micro, I love it. As a matter of fact between this red dot and my ammo project, has shown me how great the Glock after market parts world is.
That has to be the best get your feet wet option at the very least.
Long overdue update to this, I ended up a with a Gen 5 G19 with an RMR. I'm probably 2 range trips away from making it my carry gun. Accuracy with the dot is great--as a pistol shooter my biggest weakness is "acceptable sight picture," with irons I sometimes rush the shot before I'm properly aligned and throw a shot--the dot makes it easy to know when to break the shot. The downside is I'm still slower with the dot--I know that's just a matter of practice with grip and presentation. The upside is my first round accuracy is way better.
Coal Dragger
10-03-22, 13:42
You want to get an optic-capable version of a gun you currently most familiar with. Running the dot largely relies on kinesthetic index so if your current gun points differently from what you're going to run with the dot, you're not setting yourself up for success. There will be enough early challenge learning the dot, you don't want to add another challenge of learning a new gun simultaneously.
Plate vs direct mill is a long-standing debate that lacks systematic analysis. My personal experience is that it doesn't matter much. Some people believe that plates offer some advantages, others don't. Plate vs milling shouldn't be a fixation point, at least early on.
This.
So if you read the OP’s post, he wants a gun that is functional with and without red dot installed and is skiddish of the crappy MOS option (with good reason). If you take a OEM Gen 5, get the slide milled, get a plate cover for the mill work (my assumption here is he won’t be running the gun without a plate cover when the red dot is uninstalled), add useable sights you are now over $400 plus the cost of the gun and you are still stuck with 1980 ergonomics & mediocre trigger, you also don’t have the option of running suppressed or running a comp without purchasing a threaded barrel. Your resale value of the Shadow Systems will also likely be higher since nobody ever gets close to what they spent selling s a Glock they customized.
Aftermarket plates address MOS
Direct milling is an option
Both allow functionality without optic or plate (he said functional, not asthetic)
Aftermarket irons are not necessary
Suprrssor or comp were not listed as a factor
Gen 5 with aftermarket plate is like $600 (last I checked) with high resale if he doesnt like it.
Direct milling is like $650.
Shadow systems is $900. Im sure SS is great, just offereing a functional cheaper way for OP if he wants it.
Stopsign32v
10-05-22, 07:47
Find which ever pistol you can point with your eyes closed, open them, and have the sights mainly lined up and not pointing down or up.
Otherwise you will get aggravated constantly searching for the red dot.
I just started carrying my Beretta 92X RDO Centurion with a 507c IWB appendix.
Um, it's big. This isn't going to conceal with just a t-shirt.
TriggerFish
10-11-22, 14:22
All ready to go from the factory:
https://i.imgur.com/JmWAa4H.jpg
Glock 43X-MOS w/Shield RMSc
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