View Full Version : Federal 30 Super Carry
https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html
Federal has a new cartridge out called the 30 Super Carry. 30 caliber, 100 grain bullet, shot at 1150-1200 FPS. Holds 2 extra rounds per mag over a 9mm with less recoil.
I'm not viewing this as a 9mm replacement but i think it would be a great 380 replacement for sub compact guns.
robbins290
01-06-22, 09:25
I been researching this round. I see the benefit over 380 in a micro pistol. But I was hoping for 762x25 ballistics in a full size duty pistol for woods work.
https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html
Federal has a new cartridge out called the 30 Super Carry. 30 caliber, 100 grain bullet, shot at 1150-1200 FPS. Holds 2 extra rounds per mag over a 9mm with less recoil.
I'm not viewing this as a 9mm replacement but i think it would be a great 380 replacement for sub compact guns.
Already seen some ads for it online. No doubt they have gotten some gun manufacturers on board for production. I see two listed already.
Seems like a +p .380 to me, which "on paper" is not a bad thing. If it has the reliability of a 9mm as to penetration and expansion, and added capacity of .380, and or smaller pistols with superior terminal ballistics than .380, then it has potential to be a winner in my view. Cost and availability will be a big factor there as to any interests too.
Friends don't let friends CCW .380...
It's like a really juiced 32 ACP.
Wonder what the price point will be? With ammo so expensive will it be able to get a foothold in the market? IDK.
Stopsign32v
01-06-22, 12:58
When pistol calibers only punch holes and nothing more, going smaller isn't a good idea IMO. Would be interested in knowing the expanded size though...
titsonritz
01-06-22, 13:16
I'll be sticking with the 121 year old cartridge.
The HST expands to .530" vs .570" for 9mm through heavy clothing, so very close.
Who knows. Perhaps this will make a nice PDW round.
When pistol calibers only punch holes and nothing more, going smaller isn't a good idea IMO. Would be interested in knowing the expanded size though...
WillieThom
01-06-22, 13:35
Since S&W has picked it up with their Shield Plus and Shield EZ and the fact that their newest development has just been made public in the last few day, if this cartridge sticks around I imagine we will see a CSX in this caliber before too long…
It's like a really juiced 32 ACP.
Wonder what the price point will be? With ammo so expensive will it be able to get a foothold in the market? IDK.
It's 100g vs 99g for .380, so heavier than .380, so larger than any 32 ACP.
When pistol calibers only punch holes and nothing more, going smaller isn't a good idea IMO. Would be interested in knowing the expanded size though...
All covered at link supplied in OP...
The 50kpsi pressure is interesting. A quad-stack magazine would be less of a brick than the Surefire 60.
The 50kpsi pressure is interesting. A quad-stack magazine would be less of a brick than the Surefire 60.
Where you seeing that it runs a 50k? That's pretty high for a straight wall pistol cartridge.
Where you seeing that it runs a 50k? That's pretty high for a straight wall pistol cartridge.
.327 Fed is pretty obnoxious at 45k from the 100 gr Gold Dots @1350 fps from a 2-inch LCR.
50k is from a .313 in bore is going to be extremely loud.
.327 Fed is pretty obnoxious at 45k from the 100 gr Gold Dots @1350 fps from a 2-inch LCR.
50k is from a .313 in bore is going to be extremely loud.
45k for the .327 Fed, didn't know they ran that high. That's getting up there in rifle territory.
Where you seeing that it runs a 50k? That's pretty high for a straight wall pistol cartridge.
https://gununiversity.com/30-super-carry/
30 Super Carry Specs
Bullet Diameter 8mm / .313″
Bullet Weights 100-115 gr
Muzzle Velocity 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy 347 ft/lbs
Cartridge Length 1.169″
Case Length 0.827″
Base Diameter 0.345″
Max Pressure 50,000 psi
I should have read further as those specs are "unconfirmed" so who knows. They were borrowed from https://eb-misfit.blogspot.com/2022/01/8mm-or-30-super-carry.html
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEj9Lxr1h9vro7BVNYEAq8FfoqIzhFHveUAbiPUaWBoWVKAqyDciiiW50LVA2WbD6f_cvIWfL1BqAwBzgakU-5Rm-Z2H_LIWU3pram0MMl1BiEDffIrk9UgeShb5g1vwWaGuluGMpZZp595LRmJRTy_M5Zq9vivU4s5PiNxI8IzZuy6dCopaxJ_hnOtdqg=s726
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgh8jfOy5hKJNWxXMSNVBwuiz3JAQYSXCvuS9G5i2QvNDEqyhS8SZmilPdPGvp-3WJUNzzD7n8mZSDgk2c10IJLnX3pFnxubFRFmXXRfHneovFRT3qWuwqiL2i9LPi0qmC1rT0BgaFBu2zgvGPiP7FkeKusv-C784W2qfv8GXtSDsDL3QwhQhUONofVKw=s596
Stopsign32v
01-06-22, 20:19
No thanks. With pistol like the P365 that hold so much 9mm while being so small I see no point at all for this. It will flop
No thanks. With pistol like the P365 that hold so much 9mm while being so small I see no point at all for this. It will flop
Or, you end up with .380 sized pistols with close to 9mm terminal ballistics. I usually feel these are answers in search of a problem, but this one I think may have potential to fill a use. Never been willing to CCW anything less than 9mm due to terminal ballistics, but a .380 sized pistol with 9mm like terminal ballistics could be a winner. As I'm not an early adopter of any tech, much less something that may save my life, I will sit back and let the shiny new toy beta testers of the world play with it for a while.
Stopsign32v
01-07-22, 09:51
Or, you end up with .380 sized pistols with close to 9mm terminal ballistics. I usually feel these are answers in search of a problem, but this one I think may have potential to fill a use. Never been willing to CCW anything less than 9mm due to terminal ballistics, but a .380 sized pistol with 9mm like terminal ballistics could be a winner. As I'm not an early adopter of any tech, much less something that may save my life, I will sit back and let the shiny new toy beta testers of the world play with it for a while.
It might make a good pocket gun size that has the possibility of reliable expansion and penetration over .380
It might make a good pocket gun size that has the possibility of reliable expansion and penetration over .380
Exactly, and that's obviously the intent of the rnd, and if true, win win. I want to see third party testing before I get too excited, but it has potential.
I been researching this round. I see the benefit over 380 in a micro pistol. But I was hoping for 762x25 ballistics in a full size duty pistol for woods work.
Looks closer to the 30 Luger ballistics.
At first glance I’m not a fan. It has less KE and expansion than a 9x19mm, and will undoubtedly cost more and be far less available. I also don’t think the gun frame sizes will be any smaller as it’s running higher pressures, maybe slightly thinner but why would a mfg tool up for such? (Unless demand really kicks off)
The only pro I can see is slightly higher magazine capacity and less recoil.
Gun owners always want innovation, but they poo-poo anything that isn’t 120 years old.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Stopsign32v
01-07-22, 10:27
Looks closer to the 30 Luger ballistics.
At first glance I’m not a fan. It has less KE and expansion than a 9x19mm, and will undoubtedly cost more and be far less available. I also don’t think the gun frame sizes will be any smaller as it’s running higher pressures, maybe slightly thinner but why would a mfg tool up for such? (Unless demand really kicks off)
The only pro I can see is slightly higher magazine capacity and less recoil.
IF the pistol can be made into a true pocket gun (think Keltec P32 size or smaller) then I am completely on board and would use it for a backup gun while I carry my 9mm on my waist or a better than nothing gun for when I can't carry IWB or just want to be wreckless and going to get Chinese takeout so I don't want to holster up.
IF the pistol is the same size as a 9mm or not enough to pocket carry and it just holds 2rds more then completely count me out.
Stopsign32v
01-07-22, 10:32
Gun owners always want innovation, but they poo-poo anything that isn’t 120 years old.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What a worthless post
Stopsign32v
01-07-22, 10:33
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/federal-introduces-the-new-30-super-carry/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGHxrE9HXBs
12 round capacity in a single stack 1911. 1911's aren't my thing but I know a lot of people like them so that isn't a bad thing...
https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/30-super-carry-welcome-new-cartridge/
Gun owners always want innovation, but they poo-poo anything that isn’t 120 years old.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was just thinking the same.
IF the pistol can be made into a true pocket gun (think Keltec P32 size or smaller) snip
Unlikely. According to what Disciple posted, it is longer than .32ACP and operates at more than twice the pressure. Its overall length is exactly the same as the 9x19. Just like .327 Federal is an alternate chambering for guns that would otherwise be sold in .357M, this round will most likely end up in 9mm-sized, or nearly so, guns.
People are hesitant to carry a Glock 43 because of the ammo capacity. This should give us 8 round flush fit mags and 10 round pinky extender mags. Sig P365 could have flush fit 12 round mags and the XL would be at 14 or maybe even 15.
I dont think it would be a good replacement for 9mm duty size guns but the really small guns could use less recoil and more ammo.
People are hesitant to carry a Glock 43 because of the ammo capacity. This should give us 8 round flush fit mags and 10 round pinky extender mags. Sig P365 could have flush fit 12 round mags and the XL would be at 14 or maybe even 15.
I dont think it would be a good replacement for 9mm duty size guns but the really small guns could use less recoil and more ammo.
Yeah, the 43 would be a great candidate for this round. Although, Glock chose to engineer a whole new gun rather than give us factory +1 or +2 mags, so I don’t expect much further evolution of the 43. Maybe one of the million companies selling Glock accessories will make a good conversion.
Speaking of the G43 and the P365, I can’t help but think this cartridge might be a few years late to really thrive. If it had been around prior to the current crop of 10+ round micro nines, it might have gotten a better toehold, like in a G43, Kahr, Nano, 1911, etc. But today, if I want 8 rounds in a G43, I can buy like 10 guns that do that, or better.
Also, Italy just dropped the ban on “military” calibers. This cartridge could have been a good alternative to 9x21, while also bringing the 92 up to modern capacity. Might still fit that niche in some markets, but I don’t know.
If PCCs become a thing, I can see a 8mm Rex rifle can in my future.
Stopsign32v
01-07-22, 12:00
Yea after more looking into it and thinking about it this is destine to fail before setting sail IMO. This is basically the 40 S&W release of today, an answer to a non issue. Only difference is the 40 S&W came along when the gun community was a little less knowledgeable than today. This will be a massive flop IMO.
I'd rather see someone do something innovative and release some 50 caliber pistols. Maybe a 50 GAP round or something like that but call it the 50 ACP. Or maybe something in between such as a 47/48cal.
People would jump all over a fiddy IMO.
What a worthless post
Thank you for taking the time out of your day to say something off the topic.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unlikely. According to what Disciple posted, it is longer than .32ACP and operates at more than twice the pressure. Its overall length is exactly the same as the 9x19. Just like .327 Federal is an alternate chambering for guns that would otherwise be sold in .357M, this round will most likely end up in 9mm-sized, or nearly so, guns.
I would expect .380 sized guns with a rnd offering close to 9mm terminal ballistics and or 9mm sized guns with a higher capacity than 9mm.
At first glance I’m not a fan. It has less KE and expansion than a 9x19mm, and will undoubtedly cost more and be far less available. I also don’t think the gun frame sizes will be any smaller as it’s running higher pressures, maybe slightly thinner but why would a mfg tool up for such? (Unless demand really kicks off)
The only pro I can see is slightly higher magazine capacity and less recoil.
This. The S&W shield (to me) is a true pocket gun... even with the extended mag I can put the gun with holster in my pocket.
There are so many good compact 9mm options, I can't see any logic in a weak caliber. Gun owners are often enamored with small/compact options even when they make no sense... I mean that IS the entire .380 shooter community. How anyone could carry that pathetic round and feel "armed" escapes me.
I'll get laughed at for this, but I've barely convinced myself that a 9mm is worth carrying. Anything smaller and less potent? Nah, I'll pass. I might be proven wrong, but I can handle that.
Stopsign32v
01-08-22, 15:24
I'll get laughed at for this, but I've barely convinced myself that a 9mm is worth carrying. Anything smaller and less potent? Nah, I'll pass. I might be proven wrong, but I can handle that.
I'm there with you. I prefer 45cal, reason being is if I'm only punching holes I want to punch as big of holes as possible.
However I mainly carry 9mm because for me personally I'm much faster with it and it holds a bit more. But I transition between 9mm and 45acp throughout the year, no other caliber.
I'll be sticking with the 121 year old cartridge.
It seems pretty cool to me but does it really make me want to change my current 9mm loads. Nope, but it will have its takers for sub-compact low mag capacity guns for sure. But I'm the asshole that shoots more 9mm, 223, 308, 300WM and cautiously went into 6.5CM and that was a stretch even though it has been accepted.
PB
Alaskapopo
01-09-22, 18:09
How is this going to be a 380 replacement when it appears to be the same overall length as the 9mm and much higher pressure than the 380. Seems that it will require a 9mm sized pistol
I’m pretty sure that anyone that believes this 30 Super will work in an LCPMax/Bodyguard/P3AT sized pistol does not have firearm design experience in their resume.
No way will that work. 50K psi and 9mm ballistics in a gun of that size?
Think about it.
How is this going to be a 380 replacement when it appears to be the same overall length as the 9mm and much higher pressure than the 380. Seems that it will require a 9mm sized pistol
.380 shouldn’t be replaced. It should fade into the dustbin of history.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Alaskapopo
01-09-22, 20:38
.380 shouldn’t be replaced. It should fade into the dustbin of history.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The 380 still has a place in pocket guns. Micro 9s really are still too big and heavy to be ideal in this role. I have a Ruger max in 380 and it’s super light and small nice for those times when you have to have a pocket gun. I obviously prefer the 9mm for normal carry.
.380 shouldn’t be replaced. It should fade into the dustbin of history.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just moved "up" to .380 for my primary carry. 13+1 rds of it in my DA / SA Beretta 81FS. It's got the frame mounted safety-decocker if you're not familiar.
Usually carry a Beretta .25, too. Also DA/SA.
But I agree deep penetrating, expanding bullets are better so, sometimes I carry a Colt King Cobra .357 mag revolver.
The 380 still has a place in pocket guns. Micro 9s really are still too big and heavy to be ideal in this role. I have a Ruger max in 380 and it’s super light and small nice for those times when you have to have a pocket gun. I obviously prefer the 9mm for normal carry.
Hey, what does that Ruger Max .380 weigh loaded?
I can't find that anywhere. All I find is the same quoted weight empty and dont know if that's with or without magazine.
Its amazing how many people make a video informing others about their favorite carry gun but don't even have a $10 food scale to weigh it!
I saw the appeal of .32 magnum / .327 because it puts 6 shots in a snub revolver with the benefit of low recoil training ammo with .32 S&W Long / .32 mag.
Wife and I each have a .327 LCR.
I'm not yet seeing the big advantage to .30SC.
New shooters wont like the blast, volume shooters wont like the price.
.380 shouldn’t be replaced. It should fade into the dustbin of history.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why should it fade away? It is quite effective at very close distances.
I’m willing to bet that you would not like getting a couple of rounds in your gut and one in your face. You would either die or at least change your mind about what you were doing before getting shot.
While I totally respect your decision not to carry one, I find them handy in certain situations and would hate not having the option.
Why should it fade away? It is quite effective at very close distances.
I’m willing to bet that you would not like getting a couple of rounds in your gut and one in your face. You would either die or at least change your mind about what you were doing before getting shot.
While I totally respect your decision not to carry one, I find them handy in certain situations and would hate not having the option.
Nobody wants shot with anything but working trauma, it’s a pretty “meh” round. Even saw somebody survive one to the heart from one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why should it fade away? It is quite effective at very close distances.
I’m willing to bet that you would not like getting a couple of rounds in your gut and one in your face. You would either die or at least change your mind about what you were doing before getting shot.
While I totally respect your decision not to carry one, I find them handy in certain situations and would hate not having the option.
According to who? Not those those who research/test terminal ballistics for a living, that's for sure. .380 bullet designs seem to be improving, but the advice to carry FMJ due poor expansion/penetration of JHP still stands far as I know. As all handgun loads in common duty loads are poor man stoppers, it behooves one to at least carry those considered acceptable by SME's on the topic for SD/Duty. Better than throwing rocks? Sure, but that's not the topic/issue really.
Nobody wants shot with anything but working trauma, it’s a pretty “meh” round. Even saw somebody survive one to the heart from one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Doesn't mean the bullet did not have the desired effect.
Doesn't mean the bullet did not have the desired effect.
It didn’t…
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nobody wants shot with anything but working trauma, it’s a pretty “meh” round. Even saw somebody survive one to the heart from one.
I got into a debate with a coroner once who recommend .25 ACP because he saw so many dead people who'd been shot with 25 ACP being the gun of choice by gang bangers and such in his area. Of course he didn't understand the difference between death and stopping the threat, and if the dead person had killed anyone in the exchange and bled out a mile down the the road...
It didn’t…
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Was the person shot in a fight and did being shot remove him from that fight?
Was the person shot in a fight and did being shot remove him from that fight?
Nobody was removed from said fight.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
WillieThom
01-10-22, 19:38
Nobody wants shot with anything but working trauma, it’s a pretty “meh” round. Even saw somebody survive one to the heart from one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What is your background with regard to working trauma?
Not a loaded question so don’t take it as such. I’m just interested and sure others would be too… as well as knowing would also lend some weight and credibility to your post(s).
Nobody wants shot with anything but working trauma, it’s a pretty “meh” round. Even saw somebody survive one to the heart from one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are people that have been peppered with 9mm and survive.
I’m not going in a war zone with a 380. I just want something to give me an edge in getting out of a situation. Actually, I wouldn’t go in a war zone with a pistol anyway. I’d bring a rifle.
What is your background with regard to working trauma?
Not a loaded question so don’t take it as such. I’m just interested and sure others would be too… as well as knowing would also lend some weight and credibility to your post(s).
I’ve worked emergency and critical care at the only trauma center in the area. The hospital I spent the last several years at sees an average of one GSW per day. My role is RN, BSN with TNCC. I’m not a CT surgeon or anything like that, but I’ve been involved in about 100 GSW cases—I’m the guy pushing meds, titrating drips, and monitoring and dressing wounds.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I got into a debate with a coroner once who recommend .25 ACP because he saw so many dead people who'd been shot with 25 ACP being the gun of choice by gang bangers and such in his area. Of course he didn't understand the difference between death and stopping the threat, and if the dead person had killed anyone in the exchange and bled out a mile down the the road...
Exactly. Many of the people that are killed can inflict a massive amount of damage before expiring.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are people that have been peppered with 9mm and survive.
I’m not going in a war zone with a 380. I just want something to give me an edge in getting out of a situation. Actually, I wouldn’t go in a war zone with a pistol anyway. I’d bring a rifle.
Perhaps, but a 9mm is significantly more effective than a .380. In a life or death situation, I’m not choosing “marginal” when the inconvenience of carrying 9mm is insignificant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Alaskapopo
01-10-22, 20:59
Perhaps, but a 9mm is significantly more effective than a .380. In a life or death situation, I’m not choosing “marginal” when the inconvenience of carrying 9mm is insignificant.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Guns are tools there is a place in my opinion for small pocket 380s.
Alaskapopo
01-10-22, 21:01
According to who? Not those those who research/test terminal ballistics for a living, that's for sure. .380 bullet designs seem to be improving, but the advice to carry FMJ due poor expansion/penetration of JHP still stands far as I know. As all handgun loads in common duty loads are poor man stoppers, it behooves one to at least carry those considered acceptable by SME's on the topic for SD/Duty. Better than throwing rocks? Sure, but that's not the topic/issue really. actually the older FMJ advice no longer applies to the 380 as they have rounds like the 99 grain HST that penetrate 12 inches and get .55 or so expansion.
Alaskapopo
01-10-22, 21:15
Super light but haven’t weighed it honestly
Answering Rons question on the weight of a Ruger Max 380
actually the older FMJ advice no longer applies to the 380 as they have rounds like the 99 grain HST that penetrate 12 inches and get .55 or so expansion.
Formally third party tested? I have seen some YT vids and such, no testing using standardized protocols under controlled conditions.
Alaskapopo
01-11-22, 10:27
Formally third party tested? I have seen some YT vids and such, no testing using standardized protocols under controlled conditions.
Little embarrassed I just did a search and found one test where the 380 HST failed to meet 12 inches in 8 of of the 10 bullets tested. Still worth it to me for some very limited situations. Not many though.
Little embarrassed I just did a search and found one test where the 380 HST failed to meet 12 inches in 8 of of the 10 bullets tested. Still worth it to me for some very limited situations. Not many though.
If I was gonna risk my life on .380, I'd still go FMJ personally. This new rnd may offer close to 9mm terminal ballistics in .380 sized pistols, making .380 even more obsolete than it already is.
If that proves to be true beyond the claims made by the manufacturer under formal third party testing, could be a rnd that's not a solution in search of a problem but would fill a legit niche in need of fillin'
Nobody wants shot with anything but working trauma, it’s a pretty “meh” round. Even saw somebody survive one to the heart from one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nobody was removed from said fight.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The problem with anecdotes is that this has also occurred with an off-duty female cop that was ambushed at her home (driveway) and shot in the heart with a .357 Magnum, perforating at least one ventricle (I don’t remember which or both), and more or less destroying the apex of her heart. She returned fire and prevailed in the fight. Coded multiple times, but survived. I don’t think anyone would use such an anecdote to demonstrate that .357M is inadequate…. would we?
In case someone would like to take this the wrong way, I’m not endorsing carrying .380, even though I sometimes do, on the “its better than harsh language” logic. My own anecdotes out-of-hospital have been rather unimpressive, even for a pistol round. Also, many of the .380 guns don’t make as much sense today except as collector’s pieces, in comparison to 9mm carry gats.
Alaskapopo
01-11-22, 12:15
The problem with anecdotes is that this has also occurred with an off-duty female cop that was ambushed at her home (driveway) and shot in the heart with a .357 Magnum, perforating at least one ventricle (I don’t remember which or both), and more or less destroying the apex of her heart. She returned fire and prevailed in the fight. Coded multiple times, but survived. I don’t think anyone would use such an anecdote to demonstrate that .357M is inadequate…. would we?
In case someone would like to take this the wrong way, I’m not endorsing carrying .380, even though I sometimes do, on the “its better than harsh language” logic. My own anecdotes out-of-hospital have been rather unimpressive, even for a pistol round. Also, many of the .380 guns don’t make as much sense today except as collector’s pieces, in comparison to 9mm carry gats.
Loved that story when I first saw it presented in a street survival training. She had a strong will for live and fight a true warrior. She used her 9mm if I remember correctly
Super light but haven’t weighed it honestly
Answering Rons question on the weight of a Ruger Max 380
Thanks.
I estimate about 17-19 oz.
The problem with anecdotes is that this has also occurred with an off-duty female cop that was ambushed at her home (driveway) and shot in the heart with a .357 Magnum, perforating at least one ventricle (I don’t remember which or both), and more or less destroying the apex of her heart. She returned fire and prevailed in the fight. Coded multiple times, but survived. I don’t think anyone would use such an anecdote to demonstrate that .357M is inadequate…. would we?
In case someone would like to take this the wrong way, I’m not endorsing carrying .380, even though I sometimes do, on the “its better than harsh language” logic. My own anecdotes out-of-hospital have been rather unimpressive, even for a pistol round. Also, many of the .380 guns don’t make as much sense today except as collector’s pieces, in comparison to 9mm carry gats.
I have heard that story and absolutely get it, .380 is better than harsh words. But we also have options other than the known marginal performer. It’s a rare situation which something like a P365 is so large it can’t be carried, and most all is here have the ability to take more gun if we so choose.
The reality being, we are unlikely to be in a shooting as civilians. But if we do, it’s a matter of life or death. Stack odds in your favor, I say.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This new cartridge is longer than a .380 but thinner. Unless they can shoehorn it into .380-sized pistols I just don't see it taking off or replacing the .380. Putting it into a 9mm-sized pistol? Why?
This new cartridge is longer than a .380 but thinner. Unless they can shoehorn it into .380-sized pistols I just don't see it taking off or replacing the .380. Putting it into a 9mm-sized pistol? Why?
Two more rounds.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Two more rounds.
Yeah but a .22LR can hold even more than that. See where that argument can go?
Yeah but a .22LR can hold even more than that. See where that argument can go?
Absolutely, I see where it CAN go, but is that the case here? I’m not so sure.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://www.federalpremium.com/30supercarry.html
Federal has a new cartridge out called the 30 Super Carry. 30 caliber, 100 grain bullet, shot at 1150-1200 FPS. Holds 2 extra rounds per mag over a 9mm with less recoil.
I'm not viewing this as a 9mm replacement but i think it would be a great 380 replacement for sub compact guns.
Again a new caliber that is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
9mm with a 100 grain bullet will have as little recoil & a lot more velocity.
Is another round (in the S&W Shield) of a weaker cartige a fair trade, I don't think so.
Your right a good replacement for .380 if gun makers are willing to stuff it into a LCP size & weight pistol.
I'd definitely be interested.
Here is something I haven't seen mentioned:
If .30SC uses .312 bullets then we'll see it chambered in guns already chambered in .327 Fed Mag using moon clips!
Just something I could see happening.
Guys….enough with the presumptions and hope this is going to be able to work in an LCP sized and weight pistol.
Physics says NO
Yeah but a .22LR can hold even more than that. See where that argument can go?
Might as well carry a Keltec PMR-30 .22 wmr at that point, or FN Five-Seven.
Might as well carry a Keltec PMR-30 .22 wmr at that point, or FN Five-Seven.
Yes. Granted, the PMR-30 ain't exactly "compact" but it is pretty damn flat.
Guys….enough with the presumptions and hope this is going to be able to work in an LCP sized and weight pistol.
Physics says NO
That is about the ONLY thing about this round that would interest me, if it can be done.
sandsunsurf
01-28-22, 01:00
Again a new caliber that is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
Exactly what I was going to post when I started reading this thread. It's stupid. Merely some marketing of a ammo for a problem that doesn't exist.
Federal accomplished what they intended, we have eight pages of yip yapping amounting to nothing and retards coming in the gun shop asking why we don't have this yet in a "xyz space modulator"
Oh-and an article in the next issue of American Rifleman.
Might as well carry a Keltec PMR-30 .22 wmr at that point, or FN Five-Seven.
This thing has a similar max pressure and case diameter to 5.7 FN, but same COL as 9x19…. I wonder how long before someone gives it the .22TCM9r neck-down treatment and crams it into a CMMG RDB or a G19. I’d consider a suitably interesting PDW if it could do reasonable projectiles and were easily reloadable.
Cagemonkey
01-28-22, 08:53
Whats OLD is whats NEW. The only real difference it seems is modern bullet technology; https://www.thereloadersnetwork.com/2022/01/12/7-62x25-tokarev-the-original-30-super-carry/ http://gundata.org/cartridge/129/.30-luger-%287.65mm%29/. Just more Marketing BS, in a time where we can't even get existing ammo at an affordable price.
Whats OLD is whats NEW. The only real difference it seems is modern bullet technology; https://www.thereloadersnetwork.com/2022/01/12/7-62x25-tokarev-the-original-30-super-carry/ http://gundata.org/cartridge/129/.30-luger-%287.65mm%29/. Just more Marketing BS, in a time where we can't even get existing ammo at an affordable price.
The Tok doesn’t fit in guns with 9mm or .40 grip dimensions. The 30 luger and the Tok fail to improve mag capacity over 9mm. Why does everyone insist on comparing .30SC to cartridges it in no way is comparable with?
The primary two things this case has to offer are fitting in modern guns, and fitting more ammo in them.
Cagemonkey
01-28-22, 10:46
Valid argument on Capacity. My main argument was on the Ballistics and another logistic burden.
Valid argument on Capacity. My main argument was on the Ballistics and another logistic burden.
I have no doubt that these factors will be taken into account in whether or not this cartridge is successful. I doubt it will be, but it does have a percentage of my attention span.
Guys….enough with the presumptions and hope this is going to be able to work in an LCP sized and weight pistol.
Physics says NO
I guarantee you that the laws of physics are not in the way of an LCP sized gun handling this round. There are plenty of competent engineers that could design such a gun. I would buy it too. Even if it costed three times as much.
Alaskapopo
01-29-22, 12:23
The round is as long as the 9mm it will not fit in a 380 platform
The round is as long as the 9mm it will not fit in a 380 platform
One is a 9x17 and the other is a 9x19. Are you suggesting that someone cannot fit 2mm in there somewhere?
Alaskapopo
01-29-22, 22:12
One is a 9x17 and the other is a 9x19. Are you suggesting that someone cannot fit 2mm in there somewhere?
With that logic you could put a 9mm in a 380 and you can’t. Also there is the 50k of chamber pressure to deal with.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-30-22, 00:21
It might make a good pocket gun size that has the possibility of reliable expansion and penetration over .380
What is the issue with this round in small guns- the 50k pressure and having to have a good amount of mass for the recoil system? Would an HP P7 type gas delayed system be an advantage? More pressure, more resistance?
Alaskapopo
01-30-22, 01:34
What is the issue with this round in small guns- the 50k pressure and having to have a good amount of mass for the recoil system? Would an HP P7 type gas delayed system be an advantage? More pressure, more resistance?
50k is rifle pressure range going to take a locked breach and a 9mm sized pistol.
50k is rifle pressure range going to take a locked breach and a 9mm sized pistol.
They already exist:
https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/mp-shield-plus?sku=13474&preselect=1
So far, 9mm sized pistol they offer with higher capacity. Is the slightly below 9mm terminal ballistics worth the added capacity all things being equal in terms of the pistol? Probably not. Would be interested to see what the recoil is like compared to 9mm in same pistol.
With that logic you could put a 9mm in a 380 and you can’t. Also there is the 50k of chamber pressure to deal with.
A competent engineer could deal with it. The gun could be made. It would cost more due to better materials but it could be done.
A competent engineer could deal with it. The gun could be made. It would cost more due to better materials but it could be done.
And after that engineer makes those changes, a pistol would also be suitable for 9mm, not just .380 and .30SC. In other words, by the time a gun is scaled up to work with 30SC, it would no longer be a G42.
WillieThom
01-30-22, 22:24
A Smith & Wesson CSX w/ 15 rounds I could perhaps get behind. It was mentioned on TFBTV in passing at the end of a video. Don’t know if James mentioned it because he knows something or what… but that is the one specific case in which I would get the CSX. Because I want one. But not bad enough. But in .30SC it would offer something up just different enough that I’d go for it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-31-22, 15:07
If mag bans get stricter and lower count, I see a move towards fewer bigger rounds. If SCOTUS gets off its butt and slaps down mag bans, I can see smaller/more round guns perhaps gaining. If it recoils less than a 9mm, I could see it being good for bringing in smaller hand/more recoil sensitive shooters.
All pistol rounds suck, some more than others, so this might sucks slightly more than a 9mm? Maybe?
And after that engineer makes those changes, a pistol would also be suitable for 9mm, not just .380 and .30SC. In other words, by the time a gun is scaled up to work with 30SC, it would no longer be a G42.
I would hope it wouldn’t be a G42. I want it to be an LCP max. It can be done. 9mm or 30SC.
Just more proof as far as I am concerned of inventing something that really isn't needed, but I am sure it will be a success.
Last round that fit that role in my view was 40S&W.
Revisiting the topic, been keeping and eye on this one. I view it a .380 mag basically. If/when SC becomes less niche rnd and costs come down, etc, worth considering in sub compact pistols for sures. Ballistics are respectable and you get greater capacity and less recoil in a comparable sized 9mm. Federal HST version tested in same barrel length to 9mm 124g HST:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziNsZXL8Dfk
If mag bans get stricter and lower count, I see a move towards fewer bigger rounds. If SCOTUS gets off its butt and slaps down mag bans, I can see smaller/more round guns perhaps gaining. If it recoils less than a 9mm, I could see it being good for bringing in smaller hand/more recoil sensitive shooters.
All pistol rounds suck, some more than others, so this might sucks slightly more than a 9mm? Maybe?
States that had such bans saw big increase in sales of .45 caliber pistols. If you can only have 10rnd, makes perfect sense.
If ammo becomes more available I might be interested in a sub compact micro type gun in 30SC. My Glock 43 with more ammo and less recoil would be nice.
Don't see how this is seen as a .380 replacement when it is offered in 9mm sized guns.
Don't see how this is seen as a .380 replacement when it is offered in 9mm sized guns.
Well, like .327 Fed, it can expand while penetrating decently, like 9x19.
.380 can't.
Is the blast and cost worth it? Very debatable. 9x19 & .380 provide the least expensive practice ammo.
Is going from 10 to 13 rds or 13 to 16 rounds in a magazine worth it. Not in my opinion.
I have an LCR .327 and when I do carry it it's loaded with a .32 mag "+P" handload. (100 gr SWC 950 fps) The .327 fed loads seem like they'd cause instant deafness, like .30 SC. 45k psi. (I've tried them. The 85 gr Hydrashok load is milder, however)
Ned Christiansen
02-16-24, 08:43
Ron3 I'm with you in that I consider noise and blast when choosing caliber / ammo.
Heavyweight
02-18-24, 17:53
https://grabagun.com/firearms/handguns/semi-automatic-handguns/smith-and-wesson-shield-plus-optics-ready-30-super-carry-3-1-barrel-13-16-round-mags-ts.html
Grabagun has been trying to give away the Shield Plus in this caliber for quite some time. I just never saw the benefit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This isn't that much less snappy than a 9 per some video reviews. I might be intersted in a p365 size gun a good bit less snappy than a 9, but more effective than a .380.
This isn't that much less snappy than a 9 per some video reviews. I might be intersted in a p365 size gun a good bit less snappy than a 9, but more effective than a .380.
Are the marketing dudes saying this or something? I’d expect recoil to be similar to 9mm from the same size gun. It appears to be designed around maximum interchangeability of parts in recoil operated handguns.
I prolly already said this, but y’all are looking for .32ACP if you’re looking for low recoil in a tiny gun. And no, that’s not carry advice.
Unlike the others that were solutions in search of a problem, I think this one has potential and worth keeping an eye on as to guns offered and ammo manufacturers offerings and such. I will not be giving up on 9mm any time, soon, but there's a place for sure in a .380 sized pistol with very close to 9mm ballistics, and with more terminal ballistics testing and such, 9mm sized pistols with greater capacity and (maybe) reduced recoil. As I rule, I don't do niche rnds, and feel for me, and most others, 9mm, 5.56 and .308 will cover what's needed. Your mileage may differ.
Unlike the others that were solutions in search of a problem, I think this one has potential and worth keeping an eye on as to guns offered and ammo manufacturers offerings and such. I will not be giving up on 9mm any time, soon, but there's a place for sure in a .380 sized pistol with very close to 9mm ballistics, and with more terminal ballistics testing and such, 9mm sized pistols with greater capacity and (maybe) reduced recoil. As I rule, I don't do niche rnds, and feel for me, and most others, 9mm, 5.56 and .308 will cover what's needed. Your mileage may differ.
It will not, not today, yesterday, or tomorrow, ever NOT be a 9mm size gun. Not on a train, nor in a box. It is also not likely to be seen in a blowback gun less massive than a Hi Point. It is a cartridge the same length as 9x19, with similar bolt thrust and higher pressure, both in the chamber and at uncorking.
Just wipe “.380 replacement” completely out of your heads. That is a .32 ACP, in the case of bores. I’m not sure how else to say this at this point. The maths and physics are accurately covered in Louisiana high school, and we cannot simply will those sciences into irrelevance because we want a better pocketgun. The only thing we can get out of the tradeoff is more capacity at similar velocity and kinetic energy levels, in comparison to 9x19.
It will not, not today, yesterday, or tomorrow, ever NOT be a 9mm size gun. Not on a train, nor in a box. It is also not likely to be seen in a blowback gun less massive than a Hi Point. It is a cartridge the same length as 9x19, with similar bolt thrust and higher pressure, both in the chamber and at uncorking.
Just wipe “.380 replacement” completely out of your heads. That is a .32 ACP, in the case of bores. I’m not sure how else to say this at this point. The maths and physics are accurately covered in Louisiana high school, and we cannot simply will those sciences into irrelevance because we want a better pocketgun. The only thing we can get out of the tradeoff is more capacity at similar velocity and kinetic energy levels, in comparison to 9x19.
Aye... agreed. Just use what you have.... and get good with it. Competence can neither be purchased, nor, in this case, invented. And you already have everything you need.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.