Active shooter story (an actual good one)

[Robb Jensen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FuIbujpLWA

[photosniper]

That was a good piece. I really liked their reference to the "Gun Free" school zones and bad guys targeting places with no guns signs,

[M4tographer]

How many officers are actually going to go do something? It's a difficult paradigm shift to go from waiting for backup to engaging an active shooter...alone. Drawing attention away from intended victims is a good thing, however.

I did like the common sense bits. That was a +1 for the cause. ;)

[HES]

To be honest I have to ask that they are just now coming to this conclusion that the 1st officer on the scene needs to take decisive action? I do think that training programs must be adjusted so that officers are better shooters and can make the decision to go in.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

God love Cincinnati! Used to live there. Mark Twain said that if the end of the world came he wanted to be in Cincy since everything comes there twenty years after the rest of the country. Looks like they are on the forefront here.

I wonder if in ten years we'll look at the back-up, perimiter, SWAT as archane.

Active shooter = Pro-active cops

Arming the teachers seems like a no-brianer, even if very few do it. Great deterent.

[CarlosDJackal]

How many officers are actually going to go do something? It's a difficult paradigm shift to go from waiting for backup to engaging an active shooter...alone. Drawing attention away from intended victims is a good thing, however.

I did like the common sense bits. That was a +1 for the cause. ;)

That Paradigm shifted after Columbine and all the training since has the First Responders going in. In fact, the even newer Paradigm is that the very first Officer on the scene may have to do something to throw off the active killers' OODA loop as much as possible in order to reduce the number of murders.

The goal there is to divert their attention from the cowering sheeple. Each shot fired in your direction is a bullet that does not end up in a victim's head.

[Detective_D]

So far our dept. is still using the first four officers to go in.

I am wondering if we are going to be changing to the first one or not.

I need to talk to our training guys about this one. I really like the piece done by the news station there. They hit some pretty good points, I believe.
~D

[dhrith]

Good clip, thanks.

[MarshallDodge]

That was well done and informative.

Thanks for posting.

[CarlosDJackal]

So far our dept. is still using the first four officers to go in.

I am wondering if we are going to be changing to the first one or not.

I need to talk to our training guys about this one. I really like the piece done by the news station there. They hit some pretty good points, I believe.
~D

The NTOA is just now starting to teach the single Officer tactics that is needed for this tpe of an incident. The hardest part ofall this is convincing Officers that they should essentially use themselves as bullet magnets by drawing the attention of the active killer away from the innocent victims.

It is also important to emphasize that they are not supposed to commit suicide. A dead First Responder is of no utility to anyone. JM2CW.

[ZDL]

The NTOA is just now starting to teach the single Officer tactics that is needed for this tpe of an incident. The hardest part ofall this is convincing Officers that they should essentially use themselves as bullet magnets by drawing the attention of the active killer away from the innocent victims.

It is also important to emphasize that they are not supposed to commit suicide. A dead First Responder is of no utility to anyone. JM2CW.

That balance is difficult but vitally important.

[Iraqgunz]

Very good story. It almost seems unreal because it was pretty balanced and seem to poke fun at the "schools are safe because they are gun free" crowd.

[Gentoo]

It is about time people come to their senses with these 'gun free' death zones.

I can't think of one active shooter situation offhand where the gunman didn't turn his gun on himself when confronted.

Negotiating with these guys is like trying to reason with someone who strapped 20lbs of dynamite onto themselves in hopes of 72 virgins. It isn't going to happen; the only thing you can do is drop them before they kill anyone (else).

[decodeddiesel]

Indeed that was refreshing to see an actual non-biased news story involving firearms. Nice post Robb.

[Gargoyle]

I just had this discussion at the dept I just was hired onto. I was rolling around the town and thought to myself..."If people's babies are getting killed, I'm going in all by my damned self if I have to." Me and the Sgt agreed that if there are no gunshots, but gunmen in the school, then we set up a perimeter and wait for SRT. If there are gunshots, its going in time. I am confident with my training and expeience in CQB, and actual SHTF experience I will kill those clowns.

[Blinking Dog]

Thanks for posting.

Good for them, realizing that they need to make a dramatic shift in their response.

Paul Howe did a couple of articles on active shooters that I found interesting:

http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/published.htm

[trio]

what is the definition of futility?

when I lived in Savannah, GA I taught at a school that was "inner city"...the crime in schools in Savannah was so bad that the Board of Education had its own, armed, police force, complete with its own rapid reaction SWAT style force (thats right, the city had a SWAT team, and the BoE had a SWAT team)

In the wake of Columbine this school had also had an active shooter scenario, fortunately it did not end nearly like Columbine did...as a resut.we had an emergency response team composed of members of the faculty that were former LEOs or military....we were armed with Walkie Talkies...

during my time there we had 3 more active shooter scenarios...none, however, involved students coming to the school to commit a mass killing, it was all gang/drug related on a part of the campus, and the majority of the time it involved violence spilling from the surrounding community onto the campus grounds...

the response team was responsible for securing and holding the exits until the BoE cops arrived...thats right, armed with walkie talkies, our job was to lock down our classrooms and then hold until relieved at an entrance to the school (this school, like many schools in the south, had multiple buildings spread out over a campus)...

i still remember one day getting coded and responding to my post and actually seeing the shooter on campus in one of the surrounding fields running...his handgun was quite visible....there were 2 doors on the side of the building and the other was manned by one of my best friends, a former Savannah LEO...

I remember quite clearly looking at Carl, and him looking at me, and the look on our faces being "what in the **** are we going to do if he decides that his best means of escape is through here..."

the definition of futility? being tasked to defend an entrance against an armed assailant with a walkie talkie and harsh language....

thankfully, the person in question continued across the campus, jumped a fence, and continued to try and evade police....

when i read about school systems in Texas allowing trained CCW holder teachers to carry I think: "Thank God someone is waking up..."

[ToddG]

I can't think of one active shooter situation offhand where the gunman didn't turn his gun on himself when confronted.

While it won't get press, this has been one of the motivating factors behind the "lone officer immediate response" approach. While it is possible the officer could be endangered, the expectation is that most often it will end the standoff before it begins because the criminal will take his own life as soon as he is confronted by the mere threat of force.

Let's face it, if these guys wanted to go out in a hail of gunfire, they'd go rob a bank or walk into the local PD.

[d90king]

Great video, I hope it gets some exposure.

[A-Bear680]

It's good to see some reality based media coverage.
Thanks for posting this.

[CarlosDJackal]

While it won't get press, this has been one of the motivating factors behind the "lone officer immediate response" approach. While it is possible the officer could be endangered, the expectation is that most often it will end the standoff before it begins because the criminal will take his own life as soon as he is confronted by the mere threat of force.

Let's face it, if these guys wanted to go out in a hail of gunfire, they'd go rob a bank or walk into the local PD.

Not entirely Todd. While this may be a phenomenon that we hope will occur, it is not the underlying motivation to send someone in by themselves. The real purpose is based on the fact that in the cases where a lone First Responder actually did confront the suspect, the situation was either contained or it was ended (either by the Officer's actions or the killer ending his own life).

I attended my Patrol Response to an Active Shooter Instructor certification over 5-years ago and even then, we had discussed the possibility of action by the very first Officer on the scene (as dictated by the situation). This was furthered enforced by John Giduck (author of Terror at Beslan) of the Archangel Group more than a year later.

It all boils down to disrupting the (planned) actions of an active killer. Basically, this is the primary mission for that lone First Responder - disrupt any planned or ongoing violence against innocent victims. If it so happens that the killer gets a good shot in and kills the perp or if the perp commits suicide when confronted by the Officer; then so be it. YMMV.

[Detective_D]

While it won't get press, this has been one of the motivating factors behind the "lone officer immediate response" approach. While it is possible the officer could be endangered, the expectation is that most often it will end the standoff before it begins because the criminal will take his own life as soon as he is confronted by the mere threat of force.

That sounds so true too. I could imagine (to a point) that once officers start rolling in, that the main thing on the bad guys mind is just ending his own life to make sure he doesnt go to prison.

Good point Todd

[Iraqgunz]

Carlos,

Not to hijack this. I am not sure if you know of the website SOCNET however John Giduck was debunked as being FOS. His credentials were called into question by vetted SOF personnel and he failed the test.

End of hijack.


Not entirely Todd. While this may be a phenomenon that we hope will occur, it is not the underlying motivation to send someone in by themselves. The real purpose is based on the fact that in the cases where a lone First Responder actually did confront the suspect, the situation was either contained or it was ended (either by the Officer's actions or the killer ending his own life).

I attended my Patrol Response to an Active Shooter Instructor certification over 5-years ago and even then, we had discussed the possibility of action by the very first Officer on the scene (as dictated by the situation). This was furthered enforced by John Giduck (author of Terror at Beslan) of the Archangel Group more than a year later.

It all boils down to disrupting the (planned) actions of an active killer. Basically, this is the primary mission for that lone First Responder - disrupt any planned or ongoing violence against innocent victims. If it so happens that the killer gets a good shot in and kills the perp or if the perp commits suicide when confronted by the Officer; then so be it. YMMV.