View Full Version : AR parts & OCD(Sorting/Rebuilding New Bolts, Replacing/Restaking Carrier Keys
Alright, time to get real.
I literally went through all of my AR pistols,Carbines, rifles, parts bins and yanked every carrier key, extractor/spring/pin, firing pin, gas ring I had and rebuilt them all whether they needed it or not. I know for a fact that the Colt and Daniel Defense stuff was probably just fine but way back in my mind I thought "what if it's not? How many rounds do I have on that extractor?".
This was no small feat and it wasn't cheap I used FCD gas key bolts, Colt gas keys, DD extractors, Sprinco springs, etc(22 BCGs in all) and my rational mind says this was a pointless and expensive sperg moment but I couldn't help myself. I have a decent collection for my family and myself and plenty of spares but I just couldn't let it go. It literally got me up from a sound sleep and had me online ordering parts a week ago and checking tracking numbers twice a day until I had all the parts sitting on my table so I could do this and now I'm actually thinking about unloading and stripping down over 200 loaded magazines and putting new springs and the latest followers in them because I know there's probably at least 2 sheety black ones hiding in there that I missed however many years ago.
I haven't had a weapon or magazine related malfunction for all of 2021 but I only got to shoot about 4k total for the year because of this friggin kung-flu nonsense but still I'm not seeing any particular moment that inspired this dicey behavior and I'm a little weirded out.
I'm not an uptight guy, I leave guns dirty, I'll hose down a new Noveske with So-Sure in a nanosecond, I'll even eat roadside horsemeat tacos south of I10.
This is new territory for me, am I okay?
No. You have a problem. If isn’t normal to rear things down for no reason. You didn’t mention about round counts or maintenance intervals on anything. You’re just doing it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No. You have a problem. If isn’t normal to rear things down for no reason. You didn’t mention about round counts or maintenance intervals on anything. You’re just doing it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, now that you mention it, not being able to remember any of that with any certainty is what started this crazy train back in November. This whole COVID thing has really thrown me off my normal schedule and I was keeping track of all of that in my head basically tracking usage of each rig based on my running ammo inventory as my only written point of reference.
I need to make a spreadsheet and keep up log entries from now on because that seems to have bothered me waaay more than I would have ever guessed.
That was an expensive, unnecessary pita, and I bet your carrier key staking will fail long before Colt’s and DD’s.
That was an expensive, unnecessary pita, and I bet your carrier key staking will fail long before Colt’s and DD’s.
My Voodoo is every bit as good as some clock puncher at Colt or DD and between dying my flats to check the sealing surfaces, the FCD castellated gas key screws and my staking tool perfectly squeezing the key material into the troughs of those castellaton notches I'll bet neither Colt nor DD have ever built a mass production carrier so precisely measured or carefully built.
You can keep all that mediocrity rattling around in your dome all to yourself partner...
That was an expensive, unnecessary pita, and I bet your carrier key staking will fail long before Colt’s and DD’s.
I agree. I've had some non-COLT/BCM jobs (not mine) come loose.
Inkslinger
01-14-22, 19:13
That sounds a bit overboard. I could see doing to a couple of my main rifles, but not ever single one I own. Hell, I don’t even have near as many as you went through!
Alright, time to get real.
I literally went through all of my AR pistols,Carbines, rifles, parts bins and yanked every carrier key, extractor/spring/pin, firing pin, gas ring I had and rebuilt them all whether they needed it or not. I know for a fact that the Colt and Daniel Defense stuff was probably just fine but...
To pull off correctly functioning gas keys 'just because' is beyond dumb. Those things will generally outlive bolts by a good bit and are not something that 'need' routine replacement like gas rings may require.
A fool and their money are soon parted. You just proved it...
That sounds a bit overboard. I could see doing to a couple of my main rifles, but not ever single one I own. Hell, I don’t even have near as many as you went through!
Yeah, I was already neck deep in it and had them all broken down before I really realized how big a job that was. I normally just keep my HD gun and my main squeeze carbine tip-top and check the rest out after a big day at the range with multiple shooters playing musical ARs every year or two.
If I start eyeballing my Cummins I'm gonna go see a shrink..
Inkslinger
01-14-22, 19:38
Yeah, I was already neck deep in it and had them all broken down before I really realized how big a job that was. I normally just keep my HD gun and my main squeeze carbine tip-top and check the rest out after a big day at the range with multiple shooters playing musical ARs every year or two.
If I start eyeballing my Cummins I'm gonna go see a shrink..
I hope you at least saved all your old parts. I’m guessing there are probably some (most) worth saving. If they worked before, I’m sure they would be good to have in an emergency.
I think you could have saved a bunch of time and work if you had just bought full auto M4’s and de-milled them for parts…
I hope you at least saved all your old parts. I’m guessing there are probably some (most) worth saving. If they worked before, I’m sure they would be good to have in an emergency.
+ replacing all the 'new condition' spare parts that were taken from those tool boxes and put into service.
At the worst possible time (in the last many years) to be shopping for those parts both price wise and availability wise...
bamashooter
01-15-22, 13:09
Covid-induced dementia?
I get it. I understand where you’re coming from. I haven’t done anything to the extent you have. But I’ll randomly go through my 1911 and replace every spring just because. If I were you though when I have that urge I would go outside and go for a walk, drink a beer, smoke a cigar or turn on a good movie. Something to pull your attention away. That being said, can I buy your replaced parts or some of them? lol.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If it makes you feel better then 👍 for you. I normally just run until it needs to be done, I do keep certain spare parts on hand. Hell my last deployment I took a spare fire control parts set and spare oops stuff in my Oh F### / cleaning kit. As I carried for many years. I didn't need anything out of it but I had it. Bolt carrier gas key's will run in a old over gassed AR way past it's prime. I gave it to Will (IG) my shot out one for his collection. It was like throwing a hotdog down a hallway from GOD knows how many thousands of rounds fired though it, at least 2 bolts
and (second Gas key) replaced over 25 years. I've shot the s### out of it. My deployment days are I walk out the door and go shooting though now. Now my "work" rifle not "allowed" but it's basically a brand new Colt M4 that's only been used by me.
My Voodoo is every bit as good as some clock puncher at Colt or DD and between dying my flats to check the sealing surfaces, the FCD castellated gas key screws and my staking tool perfectly squeezing the key material into the troughs of those castellaton notches I'll bet neither Colt nor DD have ever built a mass production carrier so precisely measured or carefully built.
You can keep all that mediocrity rattling around in your dome all to yourself partner...
There’s more to it than Voodoo. Their tooling takes the clockpuncher’s hamfistedness out of the equation. There’s untold numbers of carriers in military service that have outlived many barrels on the same key. Those things falling off with regularity is the product of second rate screws and install.
I get some of it, but the gas keys….wow.
Alright, time to get real.
I literally went through all of my AR pistols,Carbines, rifles, parts bins and yanked every carrier key, extractor/spring/pin, firing pin, gas ring I had and rebuilt them all whether they needed it or not. I know for a fact that the Colt and Daniel Defense stuff was probably just fine but way back in my mind I thought "what if it's not? How many rounds do I have on that extractor?".
If that gives you a peace of mind - you did a right thing. I've done this before if I wasn't sure about a quality of components. This is especially prudent if you have a large inventory of parts to bring them all to the same baseline.
If you have Colt/DD that might have been unnecessary, but I would like to hear your feedback on how the screws and gas keys were done from the factory since you've replaced so many of them at once.
If that gives you a peace of mind - you did a right thing. I've done this before if I wasn't sure about a quality of components. This is especially prudent if you have a large inventory of parts to bring them all to the same baseline.
If you have Colt/DD that might have been unnecessary, but I would like to hear your feedback on how the screws and gas keys were done from the factory since you've replaced so many of them at once.
That's the weird part. The quality of the staking didn't always match up with how easy or difficult the carrier key screws were to remove. Some of them looked like the screws were mashed in by carrier key material perfectly but turned out with the slightest pressure when some that looked pretty middle of the road for staking were in gorilla tight.
LMT and DD didn't budge without grunting. One Colt came out way too easy and the other 2 were pretty good. FN were pretty tight(not as tight as DD or LMT).
This is all irrelevant now that they all have scalloped/castellated FCD screws with NOS Colt carrier keys freshly unwrapped from the government foil packaging after 30-40 years of darkness mashed into those scalloped screws with a proper staking tool.I sacrificed a set of FCD screws on a Young's Mfg carrier and key that was never staked and once that carrier material is mashed into those FCD screws it's going NOWHERE.
Another interesting experiment showed me that overtorquing carrier key screws will actually make the key curl up/pucker and potentially break the key/carrier seal. Up to 50 in/lbs is perfect and 60+ is bad joojoo.
Now comes the OCD part. I forgot to use sealant on the first one I did and lost track of it so I have to get out my magnifier and look for traces of high temp sealer on each carrier key until I find the one I missed.
Wish me luck...
Do I smell a troll ?
How does that work with someone who's been here since 2007 with only 100 posts?
I re-worked a few of my carrier keys that were sporting the cheap screws. Now re-doing everything is more time than I would invest.
titsonritz
02-10-22, 13:11
I used FCD gas key bolts, Colt gas keys
the FCD castellated gas key screws
For one thing, those are not an FCD product, they are Ned Christiansen's Optimized Carrier Key Screws (OCKS)...
http://www.michiguns.net/tool_new.php?product=ocks
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?195130-On-loose-carrier-key-screws
A lot of people sell/use them...
https://sionicsweaponsystems.com/bolt-carrier-groups/
https://rubbercityarmory.com/product/ocks-ned-christiansen-optimized-carrier-key-screws-set-of-2/
https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/ned-christiansen-ocks-screws.html
https://jtfcon.com/product/optimized-carrier-key-screws-ocks/
https://www.trajectoryarms.com/product/gas-key-with-ocks-screws/
https://blackrivertactical.com/WP/Optimized-Carrier-Key-Screws-p158785134
OCD, yes.
Personally, I believe you would have been better off putting the parts in your parts bin for down the road use.
Seek help. Seriously.
Get a data book for each rifle and carbine you own. Log each shot you fire religiously.
https://www.creedmoorsports.com/images/popup/n0702.png
It will do nothing for wear, but it might allieve some of your conscious / unconscious suffering.
Have you ever shot a rifle or carbine to the point you had a key fail?
I haven't, though I've broken a bolt and extractor pin after wearing out a number of barrels. I have no idea the cost of the ammunition to do that, since it was a high ratio between my own, hand loads, and Uncle Sam's ammunition.
I've also maintained 450 M16 rifles and M4 carbines treated like rented Army surplus mules. Most of the things I've changed on those were ejection port door springs, disconnectors, and front sights. Once in a while a cadet will lose a firing pin retaining pin.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.