View Full Version : WORST Gun From A Reputable Firearms Manufacturer That You've Personally Owned...
HK VP70. I think we all know why. But it was in Aliens and they were being sold really cheap (around $400 back in 2011) and I needed it for the reference collection.
https://i.imgur.com/B8hIAVn.jpg
When people say the trigger is shockingly bad, that really doesn't really get it across. I of course understand that it's a trigger designed to function in full auto on the M model, but it still kinda sucks.
The shadow front sight is an interesting "concept" but for a shooting firearm, it's crap. The big oversized and out of balance Tonka Truck slide isn't as heavy as it looks but it's damn wonky.
I put one box of ammo through it and was glad to be done when it was over.
This seems like something that went directly from prototype to production with little refinement. I hate to think what these might have sold for at retail in the early 70s and the poor bastards the might have purchased one of these "guns of the future."
It would be another 15 years before Glock would perfect the "high capacity, polymer frame wonder nine with a crappy trigger."
A Kimber Custom CDP 1911. Over priced stove piping POS! My Filipino made Rock Island is better in every way for a fraction of the cost. Thread.
If the category was "....that you personally have fired" I would also be in with the VP-70. THE MOST MISERABLE HANDGUN I ever shot, and I've shot all sorts of baby nambus, mle 1892s, Nagants,..."Liberator" etc.
I would agree that the sights were a neat trick, but it stopped at that. 3 shots in and I just want to toss it in the nearest pond and walk away. I tried to stop and just hand it back to my buddy who was very pleased with the latest addition to his impressive HK collection. He was quite insulted, so I ended up finishing the mag and then after his redicule of my target I turned the air blue with my thoughts of his 70s wunderwaffe.
It strangely sucked all the fun out of shooting, something I thought only the government was capable of. My staple gun has a better trigger.
Sent from my BE2028 using Tapatalk
SIG 1911. But once SIG finally made it right after having to send it in several times, it was a great.gun.
Ok, sticking with what I have owned.
Colt Double Eagle, double action 1911. In truth it wasn't so bad, but the trigger was awful and there was no way to fix it. I didn't shoot it enough to find out what else might have been wrong with it.
Walther P-22. Unreliable, zamak slide, lots of weirdness in the design. I own Ruger MK 22 autos and still think re-assembly is weird on the P-22. They may be better now. Ruger makes a copy that is reputed to be improved.
The only worse 22 I have experience with was an RG revolver my Dad found (on the side of the road). It shot loose after maybe 500 rounds.
Andy
I would say anything KIMBER, buy you said reputable manufacturer.
My worse gun was likely the Sig Scorpion I picked up back in 2012.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51823047282_3ce4394e3c_c.jpg
I really wanted to like it, and boy did I try. It had a lot going for it. I liked the grips, loved the rail and factory night sights, and it was FDE to boot. Wasn't a fan of the flat trigger, nor the square-cut slide, but I could accept that if it had worked. It really didn't. We've all heard all the "1911s jam" jokes, but this was the first (and thus far, only) 1911 that I experienced it with. It consistently failed to go into battery, sometimes with the round stuck on the feed ramp, other times with the round chambered, but the slide hanging back about half an inch from locking. What was more annoying than anything was that it wasn't a constant issue, but something that kept popping up after I thought I had fixed it with better lube, stronger springs, or polishing the feed ramp. This was supposed to be my eventual carry gun, but I never was able to get comfortable with it enough to stick with it. I eventually gave up on it, and replaced it with another Sig, a P226 in .40 S&W.
I would say anything KIMBER, buy you said reputable manufacturer.
This…….
Averageman
01-16-22, 09:00
I owned two Sig Sauer USA rifles.
One of them a 5.56 had a seriously canted barrel. I couldn't get it on paper at 10 yds it was so bad. Naturally it came with a target that had actual bullet holes in it, fake as f+ck.
The second was a 7.62x39 and it started shaving nice aluminum chunks inserting and removing Russian magazines.
Both of these were rather expensive at the time 1600+ dollars, both were sh+t.
Walther P-22. Unreliable, zamak slide, lots of weirdness in the design. I own Ruger MK 22 autos and still think re-assembly is weird on the P-22. They may be better now. Ruger makes a copy that is reputed to be improved.
Andy
Still have the one that I got for the kids back in the day. Still GTG.
Want to really test something out to see what is what? Give it and brick of .22lr to a couple young sons and let them have at it. Repeat weekend after weekend until satisfied with results!
Liked all of the various 'safeties' in that gun. Good idea when young ones are shooting it mostly. Boys sent thousands of rounds of cheap ammo downrange with that thing for years with no issues that could not be attributed to the occasional crappy round of cheap .22lr ammo.
The goofy plastic dowel used in reassembly was and is weird. So was the stupid plastic clip that had to pulled down to remove the slide.
But in my case - Nothing ever 'broke'.
I considered posting the names of the manufacturers who made two handguns and an AR carbine that were chronically unreliable. If I posted the company names, this thread would be locked and I would be permanently banned from M4C.
I haven't yet, but a buddy got a Glock 26 that I suspect was short chambered. Loading cycle would stop just short of lock up with an off center and too weak strike with probably a dozen different types of ammo we had on hand. Went back to Smyrna and allegedly ran through 100 rds with no issues (suspect since I don't recall it ever making it through a full mag without choking) and returned to him with the same problem.
Think that may have been during a sucky CS phase they had because I got a breech face failure taken care of very well about 3 years back.
robbins290
01-16-22, 10:37
Springfield XD's. Tried 5 different pistols. 3 9mm's and 2 45 acp's. Not one of them would pattern a 12" group at 15'. The last one I tried was a xd tactical with a 5" barrel. All 5 were sent back the factory, and returned saying they were in spec. Tried all kinds of ammo and nothing help.
So anything springfield is dead to me. I will keep my m1a for nostalgia, but thats it.
robbins290
01-16-22, 10:38
I considered posting the names of the manufacturers who made two handguns and an AR carbine that were chronically unreliable. If I posted the company names, this thread would be locked and I would be permanently banned from M4C.
spit it out, I wanna know.
I considered posting the names of the manufacturers who made two handguns and an AR carbine that were chronically unreliable. If I posted the company names, this thread would be locked and I would be permanently banned from M4C.
spit it out, I wanna know.
But, but, but, muh teedeepee... And muf 2 wirld wers
But, but, but, muh teedeepee... And muf 2 wirld wers
Pretty sure that means Palmetto State ****ery?
LOL! :)
Pretty sure that means Palmetto State ****ery?
LOL! :)
LOL. ;)
davidjinks
01-16-22, 11:16
I would say anything KIMBER, buy you said reputable manufacturer.
Kimber for sure.
First gen Colt defender. Double fed on every round I used. Colt tried fixing it three times before they cut me a buyback check.
Ended up buying another one a few years later and it ran flawlessly. Still have it and carry it occasionally.
Kimber...the best $400 1911 you can pay $1k for.
I'm actually a huge Kimber of Oregon fan & collect their upper end long guns.
Multiple AR's.
A new Glock 29sf that would get that failure to eject with the fired case lengthwise but held by the extractor. Did it 3 times in the first 50 rounds. Returned it. Junk.
A couple other brand new Glocks, one a G30 gen 4 last year, that laughed as it popped me in the face with cases several times a magazine. Junk.
Kimber, yea, a .45. Wasn't junk but had a couple failures to go into battery. Enough that I didn't trust it.
Many other brand new guns with problems. Vector Arms, Llama, RIA, Ruger, PSA, Model 1, Taurus, Chinese shotguns, various AK's, many others I cant recall at the moment.
So many that to this day I "generally" don't trust an AR or 1911 to run an extended shooting session or class without a stoppage.
Worst pistols ever purchased: Sig Mosquito, Kimber 1911.
My worse gun was likely the Sig Scorpion I picked up back in 2012.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51823047282_3ce4394e3c_c.jpg
I really wanted to like it, and boy did I try. It had a lot going for it. I liked the grips, loved the rail and factory night sights, and it was FDE to boot. Wasn't a fan of the flat trigger, nor the square-cut slide, but I could accept that if it had worked. It really didn't. We've all heard all the "1911s jam" jokes, but this was the first (and thus far, only) 1911 that I experienced it with. It consistently failed to go into battery, sometimes with the round stuck on the feed ramp, other times with the round chambered, but the slide hanging back about half an inch from locking. What was more annoying than anything was that it wasn't a constant issue, but something that kept popping up after I thought I had fixed it with better lube, stronger springs, or polishing the feed ramp. This was supposed to be my eventual carry gun, but I never was able to get comfortable with it enough to stick with it. I eventually gave up on it, and replaced it with another Sig, a P226 in .40 S&W.
Did you talk to SIG about it? I had probs with my SIG Revolution (SN 11XXX), it went back and forth maybe four times (on their dime), but in the end it was right. Out of the box the best "stock" 1911 trigger I have. The trigger was never the issue.
I had forgot! I did get an early Walther P22 that sucked. Problems in order of occurrence were magazines would drop while shooting, rear sight would not hold adjustment(could watch the screw slot turn up to 90 degrees while firing), and finally the DA part of the trigger crapped out.
Called S&W service and they were kinda meh about the mags falling out even after I verified I was anal about not hitting the release, was told a large number of rear sights fresh off the boat wouldn't hold zero and trying to fix was a crap shoot, sad finally the mention of the DA failure got an immediate return number that I assume was due to safety issues.
Can't recall if it was repaired or replaced, but I verified the DA and sight were working and traded it off.
titsonritz
01-16-22, 16:00
I had a Para Ordnance P10-45 that was the most unreliable turd I've ever owned.
Business_Casual
01-16-22, 16:22
Is Springfield Armory reputable?
Is Springfield Armory reputable?
Don't know about now, but they used to be. They're basic, cheap 1911s were the frames and slides upon which many a custom build was made.
I never cared for their "Loaded" model, but their TRP and the higher line was always pretty decent.
Multiple AR's.
A new Glock 29sf that would get that failure to eject with the fired case lengthwise but held by the extractor. Did it 3 times in the first 50 rounds. Returned it. Junk.
A couple other brand new Glocks, one a G30 gen 4 last year, that laughed as it popped me in the face with cases several times a magazine. Junk.
Kimber, yea, a .45. Wasn't junk but had a couple failures to go into battery. Enough that I didn't trust it.
Many other brand new guns with problems. Vector Arms, Llama, RIA, Ruger, PSA, Model 1, Taurus, Chinese shotguns, various AK's, many others I cant recall at the moment.
So many that to this day I "generally" don't trust an AR or 1911 to run an extended shooting session or class without a stoppage.
At some point you need to ask if it's you or the gun lol. That's a whole lot of guns to have issues with.
I have never once had a single issue with a BCM, Colt, or even SW M&P Sport AR. And I've had a couple 1911s that were turds but most of them have been just great.
SomeOtherGuy
01-16-22, 17:59
Ruger American Pistol, service size 9mm. Purchased new about a year after they came out. Was totally looking forward to an all-American Glock replacement.
It threw shotgun patterns at 10 yards. Like 12" or so. I would shoot five other handguns in the same practice session and get maybe 3" groups at that distance with all of them, then have the Ruger not be able to hit a paper plate.
The trigger hurt my trigger finger. Not sure why, I use lots of other trigger-in-trigger safety systems, don't like any of them but get along fine with Glock, etc. Not sure if there was a tiny bit of trigger slap, or if they just made all the parts sharp and abrasive.
Once disassembled for cleaning, it was easy to mess things up and have trouble re-assembling. This happened AFTER multiple accuracy tests, btw. I got it back together but it was about as difficult as changing the safety/decocker on a CZ P07 (fiddly little spring that requires a forked-tip screwdriver, for those who don't know).
I have several hammer fired Ruger pistols, as well as the LC9, and they all work well for me. Along with various other brands. RAP seems to have been a failure, both functionally and in the market.
Pretty sure that means Palmetto State ****ery?
LOL! :)
that would be my vote and submission as well
TheGhostRider
01-16-22, 18:59
Colt... All American 2000.
What a friggin dumpster fire that was.
I was young, dumb and full of... well, in my defense computers/internet were not main stream and its a Colt... must be good right! Big mistake! Hope the guy that bought if from me doesn't remember me!:blink:
we should flip this to, 'best cheap no name gun you ever bought'
mine would be the bersa thunder9. Utterly reliable, not a single malfunction in over 7k rounds, cleaned that sucker exactly 2x and literally treated it like a used butter knife. I even once used it to hammer a nail lol
we should flip this to, 'best cheap no name gun you ever bought'
mine would be the bersa thunder9. Utterly reliable, not a single malfunction in over 7k rounds, cleaned that sucker exactly 2x and literally treated it like a used butter knife. I even once used it to hammer a nail lol
Bersa Thunder 380 is one of my closet favorite guns. It was always performed so much better than I expected with very low recoil, their carry 9mm was actually a really nice gun too but I ended up going with the Shield because of aftermarket support.
My worse gun was likely the Sig Scorpion I picked up back in 2012.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51823047282_3ce4394e3c_c.jpg
I really wanted to like it, and boy did I try. It had a lot going for it. I liked the grips, loved the rail and factory night sights, and it was FDE to boot. Wasn't a fan of the flat trigger, nor the square-cut slide, but I could accept that if it had worked. It really didn't.
My good friend bought one right around the time that the COLT USMC 1911's came out and I really wanted it because I knew I would never afford the Colt at the time. I remember him just furious that it would jam on so many different types of ammo. I'm pretty sure the money went to buy the knights rail for my A4 clone build
Back before the mag capacity ban I bought a pair of the worst pistols I ever had. I bought 6 hi cap mags each and 2 cases of .40. Neither could choke thru a mag with any type of round, hollow pointor ball, light or heavy. I thought these would be the shizzznit but instead they were the 2 worst firearms I ever bought.
S&W Sigmas..............
At some point you need to ask if it's you or the gun lol. That's a whole lot of guns to have issues with.
I have never once had a single issue with a BCM, Colt, or even SW M&P Sport AR. And I've had a couple 1911s that were turds but most of them have been just great.
Had two fixed FSB BCM's that were good.
Had a S&W 5.45 mm AR that was probably good but mags were low quality with nothing better available.
Bersa Thunder 380 is one of my closet favorite guns. It was always performed so much better than I expected with very low recoil, their carry 9mm was actually a really nice gun too but I ended up going with the Shield because of aftermarket support.
I've had a Bersa .380 single stack and the Bersa .380 15+1 version. Both worked fine, although both would sometimes fail to ignite the Russian steel case primers. But striker fired guns sometimes fail to light them off as well.
we should flip this to, 'best cheap no name gun you ever bought'
mine would be the bersa thunder9. Utterly reliable, not a single malfunction in over 7k rounds, cleaned that sucker exactly 2x and literally treated it like a used butter knife. I even once used it to hammer a nail lol
We can probably do both, best BUDGET firearm you ever owned.
For me that would probably be a Systema 1927 (probably not fair since many were Colt contracts) but it was a surprisingly reliable 1911. They are well known performers but I'll go ahead and say the Savage Model 10 I inherited from my father deserves it's reputation.
Also found the Makarov to be impressively accurate but maybe it's not fair to consider Soviet surplus a "budget gun."
Also grabbed a Springfield SAR 4800 which was actually an Brazilian Imbel FAL and not only was it much cheaper than the FN models imported at the time (FN LAR) they had forged receivers while the FN imports were cast receivers. I think the SAR rifle was actually a third of the cost of the FN which were something insane like $1,200 back in 1987 while the Springfield / Imbel was around $450.
Colt series 80 combat commander in 9mm.
Safest place was in front of the muzzle. It was that inaccurate. And unreliable.
It was electroless nickle though and sure was purdy!
A Remington 870. But calling Remington reputable by that point is a bit of as stretch...
Had two fixed FSB BCM's that were good.
Had a S&W 5.45 mm AR that was probably good but mags were low quality with nothing better available.
Edited to add:
What I mean is the malfunctions that did occur where probably due to the 5.45 magazines.
We can probably do both, best BUDGET firearm you ever owned.
For me that would probably be a Systema 1927 (probably not fair since many were Colt contracts) but it was a surprisingly reliable 1911. They are well known performers but I'll go ahead and say the Savage Model 10 I inherited from my father deserves it's reputation.
Also found the Makarov to be impressively accurate but maybe it's not fair to consider Soviet surplus a "budget gun."
Also grabbed a Springfield SAR 4800 which was actually an Brazilian Imbel FAL and not only was it much cheaper than the FN models imported at the time (FN LAR) they had forged receivers while the FN imports were cast receivers. I think the SAR rifle was actually a third of the cost of the FN which were something insane like $1,200 back in 1987 while the Springfield / Imbel was around $450.
SAR 4800 was great!!!!!
I swear I regret selling that Bersa, thing was fking tank. Bersa bought the walther tooling machines and the bersa thunder 9 was just a brazilian walther p88 which is outstanding. I think the Bersa did so well as it's tolerances were looser. Was not terribly accurate but enough for a handgun.
PatrioticDisorder
01-17-22, 04:52
Kahr CM40, worst piece of junk I’ve ever had the displeasure of shooting. I had to go back about 13 years for that, prior to the micro 9 revolution & during a period .40 caliber was still sort of a thing.
Best cheap gun that was good? H&R .32 revolver.
Steyr M9 and M40, frequent FTE's , sent back to Steyr but they couldn't fix it. Armalite CZ 75 copy, forgot what they called it, I wanted to like it but no way. Two trips back and eventually replaced by Armalite. I sold the replacement without even opening the package. Got a Beretta M9 and never looked back.
A Remington 870. But calling Remington reputable by that point is a bit of as stretch...
Sadly, mine is this as well. In rural Kansas at a community college we liked to go chase roosters. This particular shot gun you had to push the fore-end forward and then run it back to cycle the action. No matter who used it if you tried to pull the fore-end to the read without going forward first, it would bind up and take some finagling and shaking to work.
Forgot about the new Beretta Tomcat .32 I got in 2019.
Malfunctioned often. Frame cracked, as they are known to do, but that doesn't normally cause a problem.
Then it started running well. I was on the last box of ammo that was going to be "its GTG, will carry this gun" when the slide split. Catastrophic failure at about 750 rds.
Beretta replaced it. I sold it unfired.
I had a Mak-90, well regarded AK, for several thousand rounds. 13k?18k? I dunno.
I admit I under-lubricated it most of its life. Accuracy had gone and there appeared to be erosion in the barrel throat. Was 3-5 moa but turned into 6-7.
Then a piece of the front trunnion popped out while firing. Right at the locking area. I still fired it a few times because I had to try. (Shouldn't do that) it worked but the rifle was done.
Tested out a buddies new Glock 42 when they came out.
POS. Wouldn't get through 10 rds without a malfunction. (Though usually barely 3 rounds) Fiocchi, Winchester, and Hornady jhp IIRC.
Beretta Pico, new, 2019 or '20.
Fired about 250 rds of Fiocchi. Had about 3 stoppages in that time IIRC. Shot very low. Like a foot low at 15 yds.
Not good enough, Beretta. Sold with disclosure to a family member.
Charter Arms AR-7 "Explorer"
Circa: late 70's
Tried to get it to work, but it was complete garbage.
Couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
Perhaps Henry has worked out the bugs (?), but in the meantime think I'll just stick with my 10/22 Charger to fill that void.
(internet file photo of the wonky internals)
https://i.imgur.com/xS9f5IG.jpg
I did a group buy on some Henry's early 2000s and mine has never had a problem. Not the greatest firearm ever or anything, but never a problem. Only wish it had a threaded barrel, be a nice suppressor host.
Charter Arms AR-7 "Explorer"
Circa: late 70's
Tried to get it to work, but it was complete garbage.
Couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
Perhaps Henry has worked out the bugs (?), but in the meantime think I'll just stick with my 10/22 Charger to fill that void.
(internet file photo of the wonky internals)
https://i.imgur.com/xS9f5IG.jpg
I got one of those, in the original box, for free. Guy said, "the stock is in there but I guess I lost the rest of it" :) Yeah, it was all there. It works, thats the best I can really say about it.
I got one of those, in the original box, for free. Guy said, "the stock is in there but I guess I lost the rest of it" :) Yeah, it was all there. It works, thats the best I can really say about it.
Of the manufacturers I'm aware of that made AR7s, it seems Charter was the worst and Henry (NY) was the best. Only seen one original Armalite, didn't get to shoot it. Sort of surprised Armalite (IL) never started cranking these out, the roll mark alone would have people buying them.
A Winchester model 94 Big Bore in 444 Mar. It wouldn't chamber rounds with any consistency. Bought it brand new and Winchester didn't to know anything about it. Traded it in on Marlin 444 and never looked back.
NYH1.
Beretta Pico, new, 2019 or '20.
Fired about 250 rds of Fiocchi. Had about 3 stoppages in that time IIRC. Shot very low. Like a foot low at 15 yds.
Not good enough, Beretta. Sold with disclosure to a family member.
I handled one of these at the LGS, when first released and thought they were garbage.
Turns out I was correct on that count as I’ve never heard anyone with anything nice to say about them.
Colt 1911 Gov't Model 70 series....
I couldn't find one locally and then a brand new one popped up at Sportsmans Warehouse at a good price! Bought on a whim without my glasses.....
Once I got it home I noticed the front sight was bent! No firearm returns at SW. Called Colt; up to 6 month wait.... Took it to the range to see how bad and it was serviceable at 10 yards. I had bought as a bed side pistol.
By second magazine it was having FTF issues. Again no biggie as it needs to break in although it had THE loosest slide I'd ever seen...but that can be a good thing... Checked the brass and they were kind of bloated and had rings around them. Checked the chamber and it was not finished! It was like threaded and over sized! Don't know how I missed it when I broke down for initial C&L.
Called Colt again hoping with 2 major issues with a brand new 1911 they could expedite or I could pay....nope up to 6 months......
A few weeks later I stumbled upon an Alchemy Prime 1911 and that ended my 1911 hunts!
Got lucky and sold the Colt during pandemic for what I paid for it! With full disclosure. Dude just wanted a blued Colt frame and slide and was stoked to get it!
BTW the lame laser etched "roll marks" are incredibly lame.....
Moral of the story "Buy the best and cry once!"
BTW I had a Kimber TLE 1911 that was flawless! That was a great shooter but I got talked out of it by a buddy who is ultra serious about 1911s and have no room for MIM. Same guy turned me onto Alchemy!
Colt 1911 Gov't Model 70 series....
I couldn't find one locally and then a brand new one popped up at Sportsmans Warehouse at a good price! Bought on a whim without my glasses.....
Once I got it home I noticed the front sight was bent! No firearm returns at SW. Called Colt; up to 6 month wait.... Took it to the range to see how bad and it was serviceable at 10 yards. I had bought as a bed side pistol.
By second magazine it was having FTF issues. Again no biggie as it needs to break in although it had THE loosest slide I'd ever seen...but that can be a good thing... Checked the brass and they were kind of bloated and had rings around them. Checked the chamber and it was not finished! It was like threaded and over sized! Don't know how I missed it when I broke down for initial C&L.
Called Colt again hoping with 2 major issues with a brand new 1911 they could expedite or I could pay....nope up to 6 months......
A few weeks later I stumbled upon an Alchemy Prime 1911 and that ended my 1911 hunts!
Got lucky and sold the Colt during pandemic for what I paid for it! With full disclosure. Dude just wanted a blued Colt frame and slide and was stoked to get it!
BTW the lame laser etched "roll marks" are incredibly lame.....
Moral of the story "Buy the best and cry once!"
BTW I had a Kimber TLE 1911 that was flawless! That was a great shooter but I got talked out of it by a buddy who is ultra serious about 1911s and have no room for MIM. Same guy turned me onto Alchemy!
There's nothing inherently wrong with MIM, it just needs to be well-made MIM. Kimber had a bad run with MIM and I am not sure they ever fully recovered in the 1911 community.
A Kimber Custom CDP 1911. Over priced stove piping POS! My Filipino made Rock Island is better in every way for a fraction of the cost. Thread.
He did indicate "Reputable Firearms Manufacturer"... :stop:
First gun I purchased when I got my CCW and what I could afford at the time as a poor student was a S&W Smegma .380, I mean Sigma. A true low point for S&W. But I will say this about it, while it was awful in every respect, it was reliable cheap fire power. But, the OP specified "Reputable Firearms Manufacturer" and it was still a better gun than those from High Point and such at least as it was reliable at least.
sniperfrog
01-18-22, 13:31
A friend of mine bought a Sig 1911 back when they came out and had all kinds of problems. He got rid of it pretty quick.
A friend of mine bought a Sig 1911 back when they came out and had all kinds of problems. He got rid of it pretty quick.
When they first came out Sig had a range day i went to. They had two guns for people to try, and within a short time one broke. I hear Sig got most of the kinks out of their 1911s over the years, but why anyone would get a 1911 from a company who just made them to cover a segment of the market, vs existing companies who have made them for damn near 100 years give or take some decades, is a mystery to me.
A friend of mine bought a Sig 1911 back when they came out and had all kinds of problems. He got rid of it pretty quick.
Mine went back and forth to them I think 4 times before it got right.
They should have just stuck to the p series.
Worst functioning: Kimber Custom Carry 1911, early gun in the 3XXX serial # range
Worst "accuracy": Ruger Mini-30 Ranch 1st year production. With a Burris 3X9 scope off the bench, it was barely minute of pie plate at 100 yards, right at the edge of the scope's elevation range, regardless of ammo selected.
Worst QC out of the box: Beretta SPEC0668A (92X Full Size with a 92D slide and action, Wilson Combat/Ameriglo sights, Gallatin, TN mfg.). Out of the box the front sight is substantially bent, the slide finish is mottled and uneven to the point of being sad, and I swear the railed dust cover is torqued off centerline. That one sits new in the box unfired, as I haven't gotten around to contacting Beretta CS about having it fixed or replaced yet. :(
Not "reputable" Mfg. gun which looked, functioned and performed way beyond any expectation: Star Firestar .40 S&W in Starvel finish. That gun would just not quit, 100% reliable from the 1st shot and hit anything I pointed it at. It was also the smoothest, softest shooting .40 I've ever shot.
as I haven't gotten around to contacting Beretta CS about having it fixed or replaced yet. :(.
Good luck with that. They SUCK!
For those with crappy Kimbers, were they purchased prior to 2005 when Ron Cohen took over or after?
I know people who consider their 90s vintage Kimbers to be the best 1911s they've ever owned.
S&W Sigma. It was free with purchase of a M&P15. The trigger in that Sigma was god awful.
S&W Sigma. It was free with purchase of a M&P15. The trigger in that Sigma was god awful.
Yep, that was in the "f the ordinary people" days of S&W. I think that shitty gun was part of their "sell us out" plan.
https://clintonwhitehouse4.archives.gov/WH/New/html/20000317_2.html
Today, President Clinton will highlight an historic agreement with Smith and Wesson to build on his comprehensive efforts to reduce gun violence in America. The agreement represents an unprecedented partnership between the government and the gun industry to bring about meaningful reforms in the way the industry does business.
Locking devices. Safety locking devices will be required for handguns and pistols, external locking devices within 60 days and internal locking devices within 24 months.
Smart guns. Two percent of annual firearms revenues will be dedicated to the development of authorized user technology that can limit a gun�s use to its proper owner. Authorized user technology will be included in all new firearm models within 36 months.
Large capacity magazines. New firearms will not be able to accept ammunition magazines with a capacity of over 10 rounds. The manufacture of such magazines has been prohibited since 1994.
Safety testing and standards. All firearms are to be tested by ATF to ensure that they meet performance and safety standards such as drop tests.
Other safety devices. Within one year, all pistols will have chamber load indictors to show that a pistol is loaded to prevent accidents, and magazine disconnectors will be available to customers within 12 months.
S&W Sigma. It was free with purchase of a M&P15. The trigger in that Sigma was god awful.
Yasssss! That Sigma was awful, they were just giving those away. I think I just traded mine for some ammo and a sack of magic beans....
A used gen 2 Glock 19
I couldn't get reliable hits with it in competition and assumed I was struggling with the trigger. I eventually moved on to a Walther PPQ, which had an excellent trigger and was very accurate.
Years later I found the time to put the Glock on paper and found that it shot 12+ inch groups at 15 yards from a rest. Couldn't keep all fired rounds on a printed target. I replaced the barrel with a cheap aftermarket and now it shoots 4" or so at 25 yards.
A Beretta ARX100 nightmare
The rifle shot 7" groups at 100 yards with everything I tried with it. Beretta rep said on the phone their standard was 4" at 100 yards with "military ball." I sent it back to Beretta under warranty and they called to get me to give them a credit card number. Why? They said that if they determined that the rifle was in spec, they would charge me a shop fee of $75. I went ahead because the rifle was clearly borked.
Beretta charged me the $75, claimed it was fine, and included a printout showing 3" groups with both Tula 55gr and Hornady 55gr AMAX (neither being military ball... especially the typically sub MOA Hornady). I was unable to replicate those results when the rifle returned, shooting the same 7ish MOA it did before. I angrily put the thing away and forgot about it for a year or so until I realized the warranty was about to expire.
I called Beretta again, determined to have the rifle replaced and not to take no for an answer. I was elevated up the line until I spoke to a man named Gump, who was apparently the decision maker for warranty claims and the head of production. The man spoke to me in a condescending tone, and actually began trying to insinuate that my contacting him a year after the original service was somehow suspicious and dishonest. (I now recognize this as typical gaslighting behavior of a narcissist.) I was polite but persistent. The man stated that I could send the rifle back again on the same terms: $75 if they determined it was in spec. When I suggested that I didn't trust the integrity of their evaluation and wanted the defective rifle replaced, the man became increasingly agitated until he suddenly yelled at me and hung up. (Again, classic aggressive behavior of a narcissist caught in dishonest behavior. Since several other ARX100 owners reported similar results to mine, I believe the man was abusing his authority, and the obvious conflict of interest, to protect his production numbers and thus his reputation.)
I was livid. I took a couple of days to cool down and finally resolved that the rifle was a loss, but was so angry I decided to contact the BBB anyway. 3 days later, I received an insincerely apologetic phone call from Beretta's corporate head of customer service asking if I wanted a replacement rifle or a refund. I chose the latter.
Since then, I obtained another ARX from a shop who promised me they'd return my money and deal with Beretta if there were any problems. The barrel fits very tightly on this example and consistently shoots 4 MOA or better, at least, after I had it recrowned. The crown was uneven and off-axis and originally shot so high that iron sights couldn't be zeroed.
An SLR-106FR (A Bulgarian 5.56 AK-74M clone, but using an AKM type carrier and bolt pattern)
I later learned that the barrel had been pressed too far in and the bolt lugs had been ground to achieve headspace, one more than the other meaning only one lug was performing its function.
It had the early 'pinky nail' feedramp at the chamber mouth which, probably exacerbated by said mis-installed barrel, displayed failures to feed with bullets shoved into cases from impacting below or beside the feed ramp. Other failures were caused because the edge of the chamber mouth was sharp enough to bite into cases during feeding and prevent them from fully chambering. I fixed that myself by polishing the chamber mouth and widening the feed ramp.
The rifle ran well for a time and I used it to win a couple of club matches, including one attended by a very condescending former Special Forces soldier who decided to wander over from next door, where he was an instructor at the Navy range. He apparently came over to show us wannabees what a real man who 'wore a plate carrier for a living' could do. The second time he came out, he was DQed for dropping his pistol. He never returned.
My first AK, a WASR3, had fewer things wrong with it and required less repair. (The Century monkeys ground the mag catch down too far and the rifle wouldn't feed. I built up some weld on it, filed it to fit, and it worked well for years.)
Every rifle I have ever bought has been borked and the maker unable or unwilling to fix it, leaving it to me to sort out.
Yasssss! That Sigma was awful, they were just giving those away. I think I just traded mine for some ammo and a sack of magic beans....
I had a SW40VE and yeah, it was not a great handgun. Non-standard light rail, too.
Andy
Yep, that was in the "f the ordinary people" days of S&W. I think that shitty gun was part of their "sell us out" plan.
https://clintonwhitehouse4.archives.gov/WH/New/html/20000317_2.html
Today, President Clinton will highlight an historic agreement with Smith and Wesson to build on his comprehensive efforts to reduce gun violence in America. The agreement represents an unprecedented partnership between the government and the gun industry to bring about meaningful reforms in the way the industry does business.
Locking devices. Safety locking devices will be required for handguns and pistols, external locking devices within 60 days and internal locking devices within 24 months.
Smart guns. Two percent of annual firearms revenues will be dedicated to the development of authorized user technology that can limit a gun�s use to its proper owner. Authorized user technology will be included in all new firearm models within 36 months.
Large capacity magazines. New firearms will not be able to accept ammunition magazines with a capacity of over 10 rounds. The manufacture of such magazines has been prohibited since 1994.
Safety testing and standards. All firearms are to be tested by ATF to ensure that they meet performance and safety standards such as drop tests.
Other safety devices. Within one year, all pistols will have chamber load indictors to show that a pistol is loaded to prevent accidents, and magazine disconnectors will be available to customers within 12 months.
At least the Sigma worked, there is a reason they were giving them away...
That unfortunate episode of S&W's lifespan nearly put them under. I was at an IDPA match in 1999-2000, hard to remember, the local S&W rep was there, he was a club member who liked to shoot matches. Before the match began, right after the match brief he made an impassioned speech to the group. He had tears in his eyes talking about the layoffs and the tenuous financial situation. Thing is, as a group, the shooters at the match pretty much turned their backs on him and S&W's plight. I overheard comments afterward, "serves 'em right", "go out of business, see if I care", etc..
Good luck with that. They SUCK!
So I've heard. I've been putting it on the back burner until I don't have a list of other aggravations to deal with. The depth of my mental reserves is limited these days. :(
For those with crappy Kimbers, were they purchased prior to 2005 when Ron Cohen took over or after?
I know people who consider their 90s vintage Kimbers to be the best 1911s they've ever owned.
I had two, both with issues. Both were mid to late 90's guns.
[B]A Beretta ARX100 nightmare
The rifle shot 7" groups at 100 yards with everything I tried with it. Beretta rep said on the phone their standard was 4" at 100 yards with "military ball." I sent it back to Beretta under warranty and they called me to get me to give me a credit card number. Why? They said that if they determined that the rifle was in spec, that they would charge me a shop fee of $75. I went ahead because the rifle was clearly borked.
Beretta charged me the $75, claimed it was fine, and included a printout showing 3" groups with both Tula 55gr and Hornady 55gr AMAX (neither being military ball... especially the typically sub MOA Hornady). I was unable to replicate those results when the rifle returned, shooting the same 7ish MOA it did before. I angrily put the thing away and forgot about for a year or so until I realized the warranty was about to expire.
I called Beretta again, determined to have the rifle replaced and not to take no for an answer. I was elevated up the line until I spoke to a man named Gump, who was apparently the decision maker for warranty claims and the head of production. The man spoke to me in a condescending tone, and actually began trying to insinuate that my contacting him a year after the original service was somehow suspicious and dishonest. (I now recognize this as typical gaslighting behavior of a narcissist.) I was polite but persistent. The man stated that I could send the rifle back again on the same terms: $75 if they determined it was in spec. When I suggested that I didn't trust the integrity of their evaluation and wanted the defective rifle replaced, the man became increasingly agitated until he suddenly yelled at me and hung up. (Again, classic aggressive behavior of a narcissist caught in dishonest behavior. Since several other ARX100 owners reported similar results to mine, I believe the man was abusing his authority, and the obvious conflict of interest, to protect his production numbers and thus his reputation.)
I was livid. I took a couple of days to cool down and finally resolved that the rifle was a loss, but was so angry I decided to contact the BBB anyway. 3 days later, I received an insincerely apologetic phone call from Beretta's corporate head of customer service asking if I wanted a replacement rifle or a refund. I chose the latter.
Since then, I obtained another ARX from a shop who promised me they'd return my money and deal with Beretta if there were any problems. The barrel fits very tightly on this example and consistently shoots 4 MOA or better, at least, after I had it recrowned. The crown was uneven and off-axis and originally shot so high that iron sights couldn't be zeroed.
Yep. They suck.
Here’s my Beretta story. I’m a waterfowl hunter. Absolutely love it. I deer hunt for groceries and duck hunt for fun. Anyways I used my dads old BPS for years and finally decided I needed a new shotgun. One slow morning I shot a Beretta A400, Benelli Super Venchi and Winchester SX3 back to back with the same 3-1/2” goose load. The Beretta had the lightest recoil so that what I set my little heart on. So I saved funds and Mack’s Prairie Wings gift cards for about two years before I could bring myself to purchase an almost $2000 A400.
I purchased the shotgun from Macks end of Nov 2017, I bought the gun earlier than anticipated because Beretta was offering a $150 rebate. Im still waiting to receive that. I called multiple times about the rebate but kept getting shuffled around. Beretta even blamed Macks in the end saying I was supposed to get a Beretta jacket but Macks didn’t have my size so I missed out. Mack didn’t know my size! Then they blamed the company that handles their rebates (pretty sure is was in the same building :rolleyes:) and gave me their number. I called them and they were rude and unwilling to help.
I got home from overseas the week before Christmas (so I missed half the season). Hunted half 17-18 season with it. Beretta released the new A400 Ultra in January of 2018. I hunted the 18-19 season with it. And during the 18-19 season I noticed every once in awhile the third shell in the gun would hang up coming out of the mag tube and would jam up the entire gun. Only way to fix that was to take a pocket knife and push the shell back into the mag tube. Also the recoil pad started falling apart. Early in the 19-20 season I hunted flooded timber. The butt stock decided it wanted to turn into a canteen and filled itself with water (because the seal for the recoil mitigation crap in the stock is crap). And to top all that off the finish was already wearing off the gun. So after a season and half this pentacle of waterfowl hunting technology had turned into a lemon. I decided to send the junker to Beretta but finished the 19-20 season with it. Sent the gun to them in March (that cost me $125) and got it back in August of 2020. You have to create an account on their site to submit a request for them to talk to you. Their communication is horrible. I sent multiple emails asking about the gun and finally in July I got an email stating it was still waiting inspection. Then one day it magically appeared in my carport. Yes the delivery driver left a gun unattended in my carport. There was no note or email stating what had been done so I went back to hounding them by email. Finally a few weeks later I got an email that listed the extensive list of work performed. The shotgun has work “ok” since then.
So with the rebate debacle, new model being released a month I purchased mine (I know that’s petty but oh well), failure to function, recoil pad and finish sucking, the stock holding water, abysmal customer service: I think I’m going to get a Browning Maxxus 2.
Tested out a buddies new Glock 42 when they came out.
POS. Wouldn't get through 10 rds without a malfunction. (Though usually barely 3 rounds) Fiocchi, Winchester, and Hornady jhp IIRC.
Was it made in the first run? The wife and I each have a Glock 42 and they both have been trouble free.
He did indicate "Reputable Firearms Manufacturer"... :stop:
Well, some of these Companies could be a little more honest with the names they come up with for their Gucci guns also. Something more befitting their product like "Kimber Stovepipe Special WTFBBQ Elite"!
These stories about Beretta's CS are making me a bit nervous. I was going to buy a Beretta soon, we don't have many choices here in Ca. and I thought a PX4 would be kind of different since I've own Sig's, Glocks, Smiths, Colts, and Springfields. Is there anything about them improving lately or is it a matter of paying your money and taking your chances?
These stories about Beretta's CS are making me a bit nervous. I was going to buy a Beretta soon, we don't have many choices here in Ca. and I thought a PX4 would be kind of different since I've own Sig's, Glocks, Smiths, Colts, and Springfields. Is there anything about them improving lately or is it a matter of paying your money and taking your chances?
Money and chances.
I have seen no sign of improvement in the 4 years since my experience. I think Beretta's management, corporate and factory, are a bunch of career climbing country club narcissists and nothing will improve unless Beretta Italy decides to figure out why their reputation in the largest gun buying country on the planet has tanked. I wish they'd fire them all.
I handled one of these at the LGS, when first released and thought they were garbage.
Turns out I was correct on that count as I’ve never heard anyone with anything nice to say about them.
Oh, ammo was Fiocchi fmj.
Was it made in the first run? The wife and I each have a Glock 42 and they both have been trouble free.
Yes, it was when they first came out.
I told the owner to send it to Glock. I've told him things like the slide stop and mag followers have had one or two revisions.
He still hasn't sent it back. And how long has the G42 been out? 5 years? He has other guns to carry.
These stories about Beretta's CS are making me a bit nervous. I was going to buy a Beretta soon, we don't have many choices here in Ca. and I thought a PX4 would be kind of different since I've own Sig's, Glocks, Smiths, Colts, and Springfields. Is there anything about them improving lately or is it a matter of paying your money and taking your chances?
I had a PX4 9mm, worked great. Accurate and reliable. Converted it to G operation. (Decock only)
Very slick grip and it's a pretty big, fat gun. I probably should have kept mine anyway but sold it to a buddy. Tried to buy it back once but he said "nope."
Money and chances.
I have seen no sign of improvement in the 4 years since my experience. I think Beretta's management, corporate and factory, are a bunch of career climbing country club narcissists and nothing will improve unless Beretta Italy decides to figure out why their reputation in the largest gun buying country on the planet has tanked. I wish they'd fire them all.
Yea. I always imagined them focusing on military products for export and high-end sporting shotguns.
The singular customers of less expensive/ profitable products just arent very important to them.
Although, like I said, they did replace my Tomcat. The one I bought KNOWING it's bad reputation but just HAD to confirm for myself. Yup, confirmed. POS.
I had a PX4 9mm, worked great. Accurate and reliable. Converted it to G operation. (Decock only)
Very slick grip and it's a pretty big, fat gun. I probably should have kept mine anyway but sold it to a buddy. Tried to buy it back once but he said "nope."
Thanks, I'm looking to buy the G model also. How was the finish on your example? Did it seem durable?
Thanks, I'm looking to buy the G model also. How was the finish on your example? Did it seem durable?
Good, not great. As in it looked fine, but started to wear without that much use.
I’ve had the same experience as Ron3 with two PX4s. Accurate, reliable, robust, durable, inexpensive. Had a presumably double-charged gun show reload minor kaboom in one, with no damage to me or the gun. It’d be hard for me to say something truly negative about the gun.
They are a little chunky, though, and the finish will get holster wear. It seems to be some sort of coating, like a thin paint. I did have to file down sharp mold flashing on the frames. It does not have the holster selection of a G19.
I’d go with a full-size rather than compact. G and D mods. Maybe TJIAB.
Ed Brown 1911. Brass straight to the face. Called and told them "they said YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR SHIPPING" to get your $2K+ gun fixed. I said I just sent back a $500 gun and mfg paid for shipping, testing with my brand of ammo and shipped back on their dime. Also and very oddly, the gun would not fit standard 1911 holsters, I complained they said "Its a custom gun". I was like WTF, I have multiple custom 1911's and they all fit the same holsters. Ed Brown sucks.
PB
Beretta is the current 90s H&K.
Beretta is the current 90s H&K.
OOF! That does not make me look forward to dealing with them on my defective out of the box gun.
https://i.imgflip.com/4t515x.png
I've had some junk from non-reputable manufacturers, with those numpty arseholes at Vector Arms being the worst offenders. Both the Uzi and V93 were unredeemable steaming piles. It's not surprising those shady jackoffs ended up bankrupt with their CEO in prison.
With the exception of the Walther P22 and an occasional thing that needed a tweak, most all of my reputable manufacture stuff has been pretty good.
The P22 leaded like crazy and in pretty short order, the steel disconnector wore out its slot in the Chinesium alloy slide.
Is this thread working, looks stuck, testing.
Is this thread working, looks stuck, testing.
Loud and clear.
I bought an early Desert Eagle back in 1989, brand new, .44 magnum, similar to this one, IMI made in Israel, no US markings. Love at first sight.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220121/920f3ca51de9704ea56b13dca5aa3fd8.jpg
The slide broke where the piston pushes it.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220121/27aa514f92cf3ff57d46e29786546cb5.jpg
Had it replaced and sold it. Before that it was very unreliable, at least one failure per mag, despite trying every commercial load I could find, then rolling my own with different bullets (always jacketed) and powder charges.
Probably my worst gun memory.
Oof. That sucks.
I've heard much about the unreliability of Desert Eagles, but I still want another one. :-) I had an old Mk VII in 357 for a minute back in the early 2000's, but I traded it away without ever firing it.
polydeuces
01-28-22, 16:15
Walther PPX, AKA the 'Jam-O-Matic'.
Threaded barrel - why I got it - and cheap. Wasn't worried, thinking its a Walther what could go wrong (facepalm).
By far the most consistently unreliable and butt-ugly pistol I've EVER owned.
It was hard to tell from images, but to hold it was to understand it. The slide is basically a block with some holes in it; which I am sure affected its balance (none....).
Never knew a pistol could be that ugly. But ugly shouldn't affect (un)reliability. And it was - the fail was simply EPIC (a certain oxymoronism here - because it failed so reliably).
Any ammo. Any magazine, combination, or handled shooting it.
Nothing would keep it from failing.
Stovepipes. FTE. Double feeds. It was a miracle to behold.
And oh irony I curse myself for getting rid of it: it became my impromptu go-to gun to practice and teach failure-drills - GUARANTEED not to shoot a full mag without a failure but never knowing exactly when and what type it would present made this phenomenal training tool.
Yet another reason why I just dont sell guns any more. I always end up regretting it.
I've had some junk from non-reputable manufacturers, with those numpty arseholes at Vector Arms being the worst offenders. Both the Uzi and V93 were unredeemable steaming piles. It's not surprising those shady jackoffs ended up bankrupt with their CEO in prison.
With the exception of the Walther P22 and an occasional thing that needed a tweak, most all of my reputable manufacture stuff has been pretty good.
The P22 leaded like crazy and in pretty short order, the steel disconnector wore out its slot in the Chinesium alloy slide.
Yep, ironically Vectors claim to fame were the Uzi's they "assembled" on some registered Group Industry receivers they got their hands on. Those were some excellent SMGs and according to some better made than the IMI originals because the receivers had a superior heat treat.
But anything Vector manufactured...OMG what a piece o crap.
I've had some junk from non-reputable manufacturers, with those numpty arseholes at Vector Arms being the worst offenders. Both the Uzi and V93 were unredeemable steaming piles. It's not surprising those shady jackoffs ended up bankrupt with their CEO in prison.
With the exception of the Walther P22 and an occasional thing that needed a tweak, most all of my reputable manufacture stuff has been pretty good.
The P22 leaded like crazy and in pretty short order, the steel disconnector wore out its slot in the Chinesium alloy slide.
Yep, ironically Vectors claim to fame were the Uzi's they "assembled" on some registered Group Industry receivers they got their hands on. Those were some excellent SMGs and according to some better made than the IMI originals because the receivers had a superior heat treat.
But anything Vector manufactured...OMG what a piece o crap.
I bought an early Kimber Custom Compact in 1996. Replaced most of the parts with Wilson Bulletproof parts.
Shot and carried that gun for years.
I sold it to a good friend in 2008 and used the money to buy a Kimber Custom CDP 2. The damn CDP 2 NEVER ran! I got rid of it quickly and I'm still trying to get that Custom Compact back from my buddy but he won't budge! Jerk!
Yep, ironically Vectors claim to fame were the Uzi's they "assembled" on some registered Group Industry receivers they got their hands on. Those were some excellent SMGs and according to some better made than the IMI originals because the receivers had a superior heat treat.
But anything Vector manufactured...OMG what a piece o crap.
Had 2 Vector Uzi's, semi, that never ran great.
1 Vector Polish parts AKM. Ran fine, wasnt perfectly straight, didnt care for underfolder, sold it.
1 Vector RPD. It actually ran okay but the trigger was awful. Who wants a long, 10 lb double-action feeling trigger on a belt-fed?
All sold. But all of these were actually very good-looking guns with good finishes. (Except for the mildly canted AKM)
Yep, ironically Vectors claim to fame were the Uzi's they "assembled" on some registered Group Industry receivers they got their hands on. Those were some excellent SMGs and according to some better made than the IMI originals because the receivers had a superior heat treat.
But anything Vector manufactured...OMG what a piece o crap.
Yeah, totally...The reputation they had from those SMGs was why I bought the semi UZI and V93. The both turned out to be hot garbage, though. Plus everyone I talked to there while I was trying to get them fixed seemed completely incompetent. The UZI came back after the first "repair" with more problems than it had originally. On the second trip, they shipped it back to some random address several blocks away. Like seriously...Just sent an UZI to some random address. Idiots. Luckily UPS was able to get it back, but it could have been a major issue. It still wasn't right, so I traded it away (I was up front about the issues, FWIW).
The V93, they didn't even try to fix. Every time I called to check it was some BS story about why they hadn't looked at it yet. I think they just had no idea what to do to make it run. After they had it almost a year, I told them to just ship it back and immediately traded it away for pennies on the dollar. They went tango-uniform not too long after, IIRC.
Smith and Wesson M&P22C. Within the first two magazines the rear sight disappeared. To S&W's credit they replaced the rear sight assembly pretty quickly but I had no faith in them anymore. I discovered through research this was a known issue. The sights were crappy and I was thinking about swapping out the sights but got rid of it and purchased a G-44.
Dan
The V93, they didn't even try to fix. Every time I called to check it was some BS story about why they hadn't looked at it yet. I think they just had no idea what to do to make it run. After they had it almost a year, I told them to just ship it back and immediately traded it away for pennies on the dollar. They went tango-uniform not too long after, IIRC.
So I got a V93 and noticed about a dozen things wrong with it. I called Vector about doing a "special order" where I pay for a "product improved" version with all the corrections I requested.
Sure as shit they sent me another V93 that was virtually no different from the first piece of crap they sent me but at a additional cost of $150 for all of the requested improvements.
I called them and asked WTF and they claimed they did everything I asked.
I then posted examples of the upgraded V93 with all of the original problems still present and I swear to god they emailed me and said "they would have normally sued me BUT everything I said was technically true and I posted pictures as supporting evidence" but because I had the audacity to disclose all these problems they black listed me.
I then sent that V93 to another smith I worked with who actually did all the requested improvements. I organized a group buy based upon that improved rifle and Vector did everything they could to shut down that group buy including cancelling several orders to other dealers who thought they were supplying me with Vector rifles to fix and sell. So they blacklisted about a dozen other guys for NOTHING and the smith who did the actual work for me bought them in small batches from a variety of dealers local to him in AZ.
It would have been the simplest thing in the world for me to just tell them what was wrong with their rifles and the way they were building them (and I did) and I even paid for them to do additional gunsmithing to send me a good rifle (which I did) but they couldn't even do that. And they actually got offended when I organized an effort to have somebody else turn their shit into a functional rifle and did every thing they could to undermine that effort.
Also if you didn't know, Ralph Merrill, the owner of Vector Arms is the guy who actually fronted the money to those two morons in South Beach who ran the Chinese ammo scam on the government. That retard used to sell nothing but Vector BS. In the film War Dogs he had HKs, but in real life he had a bunch of past sample Vector HK and Uzi clones that were shit grade.
When Ralph was getting sued into oblivion over that BS I laughed my ass off when he had to auction his Lambo in ebay.
So I got a V93 and noticed about a dozen things wrong with it. I called Vector about doing a "special order" where I pay for a "product improved" version with all the corrections I requested.
Sure as shit they sent me another V93 that was virtually no different from the first piece of crap they sent me but at a additional cost of $150 for all of the requested improvements.
I called them and asked WTF and they claimed they did everything I asked.
I then posted examples of the upgraded V93 with all of the original problems still present and I swear to god they emailed me and said "they would have normally sued me BUT everything I said was technically true and I posted pictures as supporting evidence" but because I had the audacity to disclose all these problems they black listed me.
I then sent that V93 to another smith I worked with who actually did all the requested improvements. I organized a group buy based upon that improved rifle and Vector did everything they could to shut down that group buy including cancelling several orders to other dealers who thought they were supplying me with Vector rifles to fix and sell. So they blacklisted about a dozen other guys for NOTHING and the smith who did the actual work for me bought them in small batches from a variety of dealers local to him in AZ.
It would have been the simplest thing in the world for me to just tell them what was wrong with their rifles and the way they were building them (and I did) and I even paid for them to do additional gunsmithing to send me a good rifle (which I did) but they couldn't even do that. And they actually got offended when I organized an effort to have somebody else turn their shit into a functional rifle and did every thing they could to undermine that effort.
Also if you didn't know, Ralph Merrill, the owner of Vector Arms is the guy who actually fronted the money to those two morons in South Beach who ran the Chinese ammo scam on the government. That retard used to sell nothing but Vector BS. In the film War Dogs he had HKs, but in real life he had a bunch of past sample Vector HK and Uzi clones that were shit grade.
When Ralph was getting sued into oblivion over that BS I laughed my ass off when he had to auction his Lambo in ebay.
Wow...That's a crazy story! It's nuts to me that they just randomly blacklisted a bunch dealers that had nothing to do with your attempts to improve their product. Not surprised they did that, honestly, but it's still nuts. Really, in the end, Vector probably did those dealers a favor by sparing them the hassle of having to deal with angry customers that bought their shitty rifles.
If they had just given more than 0 ****s, been like 25% better at assembly, and 75% less shady overall, they could have had a decent product and been successful. Oh well.
Reagans Rascals
01-31-22, 07:44
My worse gun was likely the Sig Scorpion I picked up back in 2012.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51823047282_3ce4394e3c_c.jpg
I really wanted to like it, and boy did I try. It had a lot going for it. I liked the grips, loved the rail and factory night sights, and it was FDE to boot. Wasn't a fan of the flat trigger, nor the square-cut slide, but I could accept that if it had worked. It really didn't. We've all heard all the "1911s jam" jokes, but this was the first (and thus far, only) 1911 that I experienced it with. It consistently failed to go into battery, sometimes with the round stuck on the feed ramp, other times with the round chambered, but the slide hanging back about half an inch from locking. What was more annoying than anything was that it wasn't a constant issue, but something that kept popping up after I thought I had fixed it with better lube, stronger springs, or polishing the feed ramp. This was supposed to be my eventual carry gun, but I never was able to get comfortable with it enough to stick with it. I eventually gave up on it, and replaced it with another Sig, a P226 in .40 S&W.
I have the exact same issue with mine. 2013 vintage, continuous sporadic failure to lock. Multiple different mags, springs, new threaded barrel that was polished, rails and slide polished.... literally nothing has fixed it. Just a $1600 turd.
So I got a V93 and noticed about a dozen things wrong with it. I called Vector about doing a "special order" where I pay for a "product improved" version with all the corrections I requested.
Sure as shit they sent me another V93 that was virtually no different from the first piece of crap they sent me but at a additional cost of $150 for all of the requested improvements.
I called them and asked WTF and they claimed they did everything I asked.
I then posted examples of the upgraded V93 with all of the original problems still present and I swear to god they emailed me and said "they would have normally sued me BUT everything I said was technically true and I posted pictures as supporting evidence" but because I had the audacity to disclose all these problems they black listed me.
I then sent that V93 to another smith I worked with who actually did all the requested improvements. I organized a group buy based upon that improved rifle and Vector did everything they could to shut down that group buy including cancelling several orders to other dealers who thought they were supplying me with Vector rifles to fix and sell. So they blacklisted about a dozen other guys for NOTHING and the smith who did the actual work for me bought them in small batches from a variety of dealers local to him in AZ.
It would have been the simplest thing in the world for me to just tell them what was wrong with their rifles and the way they were building them (and I did) and I even paid for them to do additional gunsmithing to send me a good rifle (which I did) but they couldn't even do that. And they actually got offended when I organized an effort to have somebody else turn their shit into a functional rifle and did every thing they could to undermine that effort.
Also if you didn't know, Ralph Merrill, the owner of Vector Arms is the guy who actually fronted the money to those two morons in South Beach who ran the Chinese ammo scam on the government. That retard used to sell nothing but Vector BS. In the film War Dogs he had HKs, but in real life he had a bunch of past sample Vector HK and Uzi clones that were shit grade.
When Ralph was getting sued into oblivion over that BS I laughed my ass off when he had to auction his Lambo in ebay.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/I5xVnGJRHZZf2/giphy.gif
https://media2.giphy.com/media/I5xVnGJRHZZf2/giphy.gif
You don't have to believe me. But if anyone actually cares enough, the entire event was documented on TOS.
My first handgun, a Springfield lightweight 1911, shortly after I bought it the bushing screws for the grips stripped the threads in the aluminum frame. They’re still jammed in there, I cross threaded them to stay on and for the most part it has worked, been meaning to cut new larger threads for oversized bushings for the past 15 years but never get around to it. Other than that, it’s your typical 1911, nothing special or terrible.
TheGhostRider
02-08-22, 19:05
Another candidate for junk.
Auto Ordinance ZG51 Pitbull in .45
Busted the barrel bushing multiple times… couldn’t get through a single mag without breaking.
So I got a V93 and noticed about a dozen things wrong with it. I called Vector about doing a "special order" where I pay for a "product improved" version with all the corrections I requested.
Sure as shit they sent me another V93 that was virtually no different from the first piece of crap they sent me but at a additional cost of $150 for all of the requested improvements.
I called them and asked WTF and they claimed they did everything I asked.
I then posted examples of the upgraded V93 with all of the original problems still present and I swear to god they emailed me and said "they would have normally sued me BUT everything I said was technically true and I posted pictures as supporting evidence" but because I had the audacity to disclose all these problems they black listed me.
I then sent that V93 to another smith I worked with who actually did all the requested improvements. I organized a group buy based upon that improved rifle and Vector did everything they could to shut down that group buy including cancelling several orders to other dealers who thought they were supplying me with Vector rifles to fix and sell. So they blacklisted about a dozen other guys for NOTHING and the smith who did the actual work for me bought them in small batches from a variety of dealers local to him in AZ.
It would have been the simplest thing in the world for me to just tell them what was wrong with their rifles and the way they were building them (and I did) and I even paid for them to do additional gunsmithing to send me a good rifle (which I did) but they couldn't even do that. And they actually got offended when I organized an effort to have somebody else turn their shit into a functional rifle and did every thing they could to undermine that effort.
Also if you didn't know, Ralph Merrill, the owner of Vector Arms is the guy who actually fronted the money to those two morons in South Beach who ran the Chinese ammo scam on the government. That retard used to sell nothing but Vector BS. In the film War Dogs he had HKs, but in real life he had a bunch of past sample Vector HK and Uzi clones that were shit grade.
When Ralph was getting sued into oblivion over that BS I laughed my ass off when he had to auction his Lambo in ebay.
What a nightmare. Run ins with people like that are what finally drove me to study a little psychology. I couldn't fathom why someone would do something like that because I never would. Realizing that not everyone was mentally configured the same as me was certainly a paradigm shift.
Almost everything I learned as a kid about 'not judging a book by its cover' was a load of crap and only resulted in me ignoring my gut instincts for the sake of political correctness. You get those feelings for a reason.
Achilles11B
02-15-22, 06:22
Glock 41. I’m a big Glock fan and picked one up when they first came out. It would FTF about three rounds per fifty, manufacturer didn’t matter. Ended up trading it for a Gen 3 17 and have had nothing but good experiences with Glocks since then.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.